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Author Topic: High school volleyball player injured in game against Trans player and people...  (Read 3242 times)

oggsmash

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   ....seem stunned.  What the fuck?  I get they have now canceled all games against the team in the conference, but how retarded are the parents to let their daughters take the court against a teen boy in the first place?   I have a funny feeling there was A LOT of rumbling about this that never got reported on and now that a girl got KTFO'd in a game it is unavoidable. 

  https://www.edfirstnc.org/post/female-hs-volleyball-player-seriously-injured-by-alleged-trans-competitor-in-north-carolina

jhkim

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I get they have now canceled all games against the team in the conference, but how retarded are the parents to let their daughters take the court against a teen boy in the first place?   I have a funny feeling there was A LOT of rumbling about this that never got reported on and now that a girl got KTFO'd in a game it is unavoidable. 

  https://www.edfirstnc.org/post/female-hs-volleyball-player-seriously-injured-by-alleged-trans-competitor-in-north-carolina

Sadly, brain injury happens a lot in kids sports - both among boys and girls. I don't see statistics for severe traumatic brain injury in high school girl's volleyball specifically. However, there was a study of concussion events in the smaller sample of NCAA sports. There, girl's volleyball is apparently second only to boy's football in concussion events:

Quote
Using medical records data from the 17-year period between 2003 and 2020, Dr. Debellis and colleagues defined the number of concussion events and time of participation missed due to concussion injury among the different sport teams
Quote
As expected, football was the sport with the greatest number of concussion events (220 events in 167 athletes). Women’s volleyball followed, with 60 events in 24 players.

Source: https://www.docwirenews.com/conference-coverage/aaos-2021/study-finds-that-football-and-womens-volleyball-players-have-highest-rates-of-concussion-injuries/

Estimates vary depending on what level of brain injury one considers, but by one estimate, sports are responsible for 21% of all brain injury cases in children overall. Girls have about a third to half the rate of traumatic brain injury as boys, but that's still high rates. Nationally, there are thousands of serious cases requiring hospitalization every year, and hundreds of deaths. This is overwhelmingly within same-gender teams among non-transgender students going back decades. Some general statistics:

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=sports-injuries-statistics-90-P01650

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2022/07/14/62-million-us-children-suffered-traumatic-brain-injuries-from-sports-equipment-from-2000-to-2019-with-a-higher-increase-among-girls-study-finds/

------

All of this is to say, that one case doesn't show that it is anything more than the same sort of accident that happens too often among all same-sex, non-transgender students. It happens regardless of transgender participation.

I'm not advocating any particular approach to transgender students in sports, just that focusing on this one case ignores the context of such injury.

As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

rytrasmi

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I'm not sure what the problem is with traditional open league and (natal) women's league. Some sports have moved back in this direction. Not every activity needs to be structured to be gender affirming for a very small segment of the population. When I play a sport, I'm not there to have my gender ego stroked. I'm there to play a fair game and have fun, emphasis on the word fair.
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oggsmash

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I get they have now canceled all games against the team in the conference, but how retarded are the parents to let their daughters take the court against a teen boy in the first place?   I have a funny feeling there was A LOT of rumbling about this that never got reported on and now that a girl got KTFO'd in a game it is unavoidable. 

  https://www.edfirstnc.org/post/female-hs-volleyball-player-seriously-injured-by-alleged-trans-competitor-in-north-carolina

Sadly, brain injury happens a lot in kids sports - both among boys and girls. I don't see statistics for severe traumatic brain injury in high school girl's volleyball specifically. However, there was a study of concussion events in the smaller sample of NCAA sports. There, girl's volleyball is apparently second only to boy's football in concussion events:

Quote
Using medical records data from the 17-year period between 2003 and 2020, Dr. Debellis and colleagues defined the number of concussion events and time of participation missed due to concussion injury among the different sport teams
Quote
As expected, football was the sport with the greatest number of concussion events (220 events in 167 athletes). Women’s volleyball followed, with 60 events in 24 players.

Source: https://www.docwirenews.com/conference-coverage/aaos-2021/study-finds-that-football-and-womens-volleyball-players-have-highest-rates-of-concussion-injuries/

Estimates vary depending on what level of brain injury one considers, but by one estimate, sports are responsible for 21% of all brain injury cases in children overall. Girls have about a third to half the rate of traumatic brain injury as boys, but that's still high rates. Nationally, there are thousands of serious cases requiring hospitalization every year, and hundreds of deaths. This is overwhelmingly within same-gender teams among non-transgender students going back decades. Some general statistics:

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=sports-injuries-statistics-90-P01650

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2022/07/14/62-million-us-children-suffered-traumatic-brain-injuries-from-sports-equipment-from-2000-to-2019-with-a-higher-increase-among-girls-study-finds/

------

All of this is to say, that one case doesn't show that it is anything more than the same sort of accident that happens too often among all same-sex, non-transgender students. It happens regardless of transgender participation.

I'm not advocating any particular approach to transgender students in sports, just that focusing on this one case ignores the context of such injury.

As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

  I am advocating for zero men competing against women in sports.  Period.

Zelen

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We should just eliminate any kind of championship and make womens sports based on participation.

And then execute the monsters that promote and profit from this disease.

Eirikrautha

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I get they have now canceled all games against the team in the conference, but how retarded are the parents to let their daughters take the court against a teen boy in the first place?   I have a funny feeling there was A LOT of rumbling about this that never got reported on and now that a girl got KTFO'd in a game it is unavoidable. 

  https://www.edfirstnc.org/post/female-hs-volleyball-player-seriously-injured-by-alleged-trans-competitor-in-north-carolina

Sadly, brain injury happens a lot in kids sports - both among boys and girls. I don't see statistics for severe traumatic brain injury in high school girl's volleyball specifically. However, there was a study of concussion events in the smaller sample of NCAA sports. There, girl's volleyball is apparently second only to boy's football in concussion events:

Quote
Using medical records data from the 17-year period between 2003 and 2020, Dr. Debellis and colleagues defined the number of concussion events and time of participation missed due to concussion injury among the different sport teams
Quote
As expected, football was the sport with the greatest number of concussion events (220 events in 167 athletes). Women’s volleyball followed, with 60 events in 24 players.

Source: https://www.docwirenews.com/conference-coverage/aaos-2021/study-finds-that-football-and-womens-volleyball-players-have-highest-rates-of-concussion-injuries/

Estimates vary depending on what level of brain injury one considers, but by one estimate, sports are responsible for 21% of all brain injury cases in children overall. Girls have about a third to half the rate of traumatic brain injury as boys, but that's still high rates. Nationally, there are thousands of serious cases requiring hospitalization every year, and hundreds of deaths. This is overwhelmingly within same-gender teams among non-transgender students going back decades. Some general statistics:

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=sports-injuries-statistics-90-P01650

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2022/07/14/62-million-us-children-suffered-traumatic-brain-injuries-from-sports-equipment-from-2000-to-2019-with-a-higher-increase-among-girls-study-finds/

------

All of this is to say, that one case doesn't show that it is anything more than the same sort of accident that happens too often among all same-sex, non-transgender students. It happens regardless of transgender participation.

I'm not advocating any particular approach to transgender students in sports, just that focusing on this one case ignores the context of such injury.

As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

In case anyone wasn't aware that jhkim was a disingenuous twat, please note that he just argued that, because car accidents are so frequent, we should not draw any conclusions about someone who has an accident while driving drunk...

jhkim

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In case anyone wasn't aware that jhkim was a disingenuous twat, please note that he just argued that, because car accidents are so frequent, we should not draw any conclusions about someone who has an accident while driving drunk...

I'm right here, Eirikrautha. It's weird talking about me in the third person.

My argument is that because car accidents are so frequent, a single car accident isn't proof of anything either way. For example, if someone wanted to argue that the current alcohol limits should be 4 times lower, and they point to a single accident with under current BAC limits, then that isn't significant evidence.

---

For kids' safety, I think evidence is vital. As a parent, I find there are a lot of things that other parents worry about that aren't statistically significant (like nuclear power accidents and serial killers), and a lot of things that parents often ignore that are quite dangerous. I myself was surprised to see that girls volleyball is second only to boys football in concussion events. I have long had misgivings about boys football given the brain damage rate. When I was teaching high school, I went to student football games because they invited me and I wanted to support them, but I did feel uneasy about it knowing the danger of not just obvious concussions, but also long-term damage.

oggsmash

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  Concussions boxing are not uncommon.  However, if you start having men box against women the concussion rate will go off the charts.  Same with most sports....people who have no concept of physical culture, understanding of the DRASTIC difference between men and women regarding strength and power production in the moment of performance or who just never lift weights or play sports do not understand this and maybe never will.  Maybe they just ignore reality period.  I do not know, I prefer to err on the side that people thinking there is no difference in chances of injuries when men play against women are just bookish nerds with zero experience with sports, full contact activities, or any real attempts at training their physical potential.  Because the only other way they would want to keep this bullshit going is they are just willing to accept the much higher risks (for others of course) and that is just flat out evil.  I am willing to try to imagine gross ignorance vs evil....for now.

oggsmash

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  But for those of you out there who never do jack shit physical and are couch bound for all your lives....sports and activities have risk attached to them.   Doing things that increase those risks by a thousand fold though is NOT the same thing as accepting activities have SOME risk (small) attached.   Pretending all risk is the same is disingenuous. 

jeff37923

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I get they have now canceled all games against the team in the conference, but how retarded are the parents to let their daughters take the court against a teen boy in the first place?   I have a funny feeling there was A LOT of rumbling about this that never got reported on and now that a girl got KTFO'd in a game it is unavoidable. 

  https://www.edfirstnc.org/post/female-hs-volleyball-player-seriously-injured-by-alleged-trans-competitor-in-north-carolina

Sadly, brain injury happens a lot in kids sports - both among boys and girls. I don't see statistics for severe traumatic brain injury in high school girl's volleyball specifically. However, there was a study of concussion events in the smaller sample of NCAA sports. There, girl's volleyball is apparently second only to boy's football in concussion events:

Quote
Using medical records data from the 17-year period between 2003 and 2020, Dr. Debellis and colleagues defined the number of concussion events and time of participation missed due to concussion injury among the different sport teams
Quote
As expected, football was the sport with the greatest number of concussion events (220 events in 167 athletes). Women’s volleyball followed, with 60 events in 24 players.

Source: https://www.docwirenews.com/conference-coverage/aaos-2021/study-finds-that-football-and-womens-volleyball-players-have-highest-rates-of-concussion-injuries/

Estimates vary depending on what level of brain injury one considers, but by one estimate, sports are responsible for 21% of all brain injury cases in children overall. Girls have about a third to half the rate of traumatic brain injury as boys, but that's still high rates. Nationally, there are thousands of serious cases requiring hospitalization every year, and hundreds of deaths. This is overwhelmingly within same-gender teams among non-transgender students going back decades. Some general statistics:

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=sports-injuries-statistics-90-P01650

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2022/07/14/62-million-us-children-suffered-traumatic-brain-injuries-from-sports-equipment-from-2000-to-2019-with-a-higher-increase-among-girls-study-finds/

------

All of this is to say, that one case doesn't show that it is anything more than the same sort of accident that happens too often among all same-sex, non-transgender students. It happens regardless of transgender participation.

I'm not advocating any particular approach to transgender students in sports, just that focusing on this one case ignores the context of such injury.

As a side note, from reading the news around this, none of the people involved have even said that the student in question is transgender. I can't tell where that claim came from. Maybe they are transgender, but it isn't stated.

OK, Groomer.
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SHARK

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Greetings!

The fucking reaks need to be beaten. Why are they even crawling out from amidst the sewers where they live?

Because society at large has been intimidated and cucked into somehow accepting these fucking animals as being normal.

NO--they don't get to use WOMEN'S BATHROOMS. I don't care what they want, or what they feel, or what their feelings are. I don't care what they are deluded as. They are fucking males wearing a goddamned wig and a skirt.

NO--they don't get to act out their ucking mental illness o believing they are somehow a female and play with REAL WOMEN on WOMEN'S SPORTS TEAMS.

Who even lets these fucking mentally ill jackasses play on a fucking women's sports team? SUE THEM INTO THE POOR HOUSE. Break them. Start public campaigns showing society how they coddle and support these fucking mentally ill degenerates.

YOUNG GIRL's NEED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THE DEGENERATES!

Older women, in college, everywhere, also deserve to be protected from these degenerates. Society needs to crush the degenerates. Otherwise, we will continue to waste away from the degenerate corruption eating and spreading through society.

So fucking tragic. But, in a perverse manner, good. Let more girls get plundered, fucked, injured, or otherwise ruined by these fucking animals. Let the rolls of ruined girls stack the fuck up. What will it take for the rest of society to say, enough is enough? When will society be tired of the corruption, and the behavior and lifestyles of the corrupt degenerates?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

jhkim

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Same with most sports....people who have no concept of physical culture, understanding of the DRASTIC difference between men and women regarding strength and power production in the moment of performance or who just never lift weights or play sports do not understand this and maybe never will.  Maybe they just ignore reality period. I do not know, I prefer to err on the side that people thinking there is no difference in chances of injuries when men play against women are just bookish nerds with zero experience with sports, full contact activities, or any real attempts at training their physical potential.

Volleyball is actually the sport I have the most personal experience with. I played volleyball recreationally in undergrad, and was in the summer volleyball league at Fermilab during grad school. That's not the same as top competitive play, but it's something I understand. The league I played in was mixed gender, and indeed, mixed gender volleyball is regularly played in the U.S. and elsewhere. I just watched some here to refresh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-XOz7mIFTQ

Men are generally larger and stronger than women, but there is still a long history of competitive mixed-gender sports - like mixed doubles tennis and mixed-team volleyball. These have been around for many decades.

In coed volleyball, there are rules for fairness and for safety - but it is still true that women are often hitting back a ball that has been hit by men. According your safety argument, coed volleyball should have an unacceptable level of injury such that it be banned, regardless of any transgender issues. I don't see any movement for such, though. I see lots of such tournaments being held with no controversy.

I can't find from quick search any concussion rates for coed compared to single-gender volleyball. I'm not claiming that I know the rate is the same. But I also don't think it will be off the charts as you claim.

Eirikrautha

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In case anyone wasn't aware that jhkim was a disingenuous twat, please note that he just argued that, because car accidents are so frequent, we should not draw any conclusions about someone who has an accident while driving drunk...

I'm right here, Eirikrautha. It's weird talking about me in the third person.

My argument is that because car accidents are so frequent, a single car accident isn't proof of anything either way. For example, if someone wanted to argue that the current alcohol limits should be 4 times lower, and they point to a single accident with under current BAC limits, then that isn't significant evidence.

---

For kids' safety, I think evidence is vital. As a parent, I find there are a lot of things that other parents worry about that aren't statistically significant (like nuclear power accidents and serial killers), and a lot of things that parents often ignore that are quite dangerous. I myself was surprised to see that girls volleyball is second only to boys football in concussion events. I have long had misgivings about boys football given the brain damage rate. When I was teaching high school, I went to student football games because they invited me and I wanted to support them, but I did feel uneasy about it knowing the danger of not just obvious concussions, but also long-term damage.

Because I'm talking about you, not to you.  Why would I waste my breath when you have already proven that you will make ridiculous statements in order to avoid the clear issue expressed by this thread?

How about this:  There are hundreds of violent assaults committed every day.  So the fact that one was committed with a gun should not affect our response to it or other assaults (or even guns) at all.

Or, perhaps, the fact that a gun can do more damage to more people more quickly makes an assault with one a bit different than one with a fist or rolling pin?  Maybe an accident that stems from confusion or inattention might be less severe or less likely than one due to drunk driving?  In both scenarios the law agrees that both of those circumstances are different, and the charges and penalties are different for each.  So, when the assertion is that an athletic boy pretending to be a girl can hit the ball harder than the average girl (in fact, harder than the strongest girls), and therefore is more likely to cause injuries in a sport that is already injury prone, your response is to say that the severity or additional risk doesn't matter because... people already get hurt.  And you expect any of us to treat you as anything other than a disingenuous troll?

Zelen

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I'm fully in favor of showing anyone who promotes, apologizes for, or encourages child genital mutilation & sexual grooming the door.

oggsmash

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Same with most sports....people who have no concept of physical culture, understanding of the DRASTIC difference between men and women regarding strength and power production in the moment of performance or who just never lift weights or play sports do not understand this and maybe never will.  Maybe they just ignore reality period. I do not know, I prefer to err on the side that people thinking there is no difference in chances of injuries when men play against women are just bookish nerds with zero experience with sports, full contact activities, or any real attempts at training their physical potential.

Volleyball is actually the sport I have the most personal experience with. I played volleyball recreationally in undergrad, and was in the summer volleyball league at Fermilab during grad school. That's not the same as top competitive play, but it's something I understand. The league I played in was mixed gender, and indeed, mixed gender volleyball is regularly played in the U.S. and elsewhere. I just watched some here to refresh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-XOz7mIFTQ

Men are generally larger and stronger than women, but there is still a long history of competitive mixed-gender sports - like mixed doubles tennis and mixed-team volleyball. These have been around for many decades.

In coed volleyball, there are rules for fairness and for safety - but it is still true that women are often hitting back a ball that has been hit by men. According your safety argument, coed volleyball should have an unacceptable level of injury such that it be banned, regardless of any transgender issues. I don't see any movement for such, though. I see lots of such tournaments being held with no controversy.

I can't find from quick search any concussion rates for coed compared to single-gender volleyball. I'm not claiming that I know the rate is the same. But I also don't think it will be off the charts as you claim.

  There are co ed beer pong teams and darts competitions too for couch potatoes to get some exercise.  Bringing a rec league up in an attempt to make a comparison tells me you are as clueless as I said you are.    You even undermine your own point by saying there are special rules when mixed....did you get a concussion playing against those women?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 05:06:24 AM by oggsmash »