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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: Spinachcat on December 23, 2020, 05:22:55 PM

Title: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Spinachcat on December 23, 2020, 05:22:55 PM
HERE IS YOUR MASK PROTOCOL:

Step 1: Throw away your damn mask.
Step 2: Stop living like a fucking cuck.

This is America. Land of the free and home of the brave. That's not a slogan. That's how your ancestors built this nation under FAR greater dangers, challenges and stress than 99% of you have ever faced. Respect their sacrifices by growing a pair now.

And masks were always a joke. The new studies with real math proves the mask mandates are worthless and the old studies pre-Corona repeated the same thing. Ever smell a fart? That's because that's dudes' poo-poo flew out of his ass through his jeans across the room and into your nose. Yes, every fart you smell is SHIT particles in your nose.

But I have co-morbidities!!! I'm in danger!

Here's your special snowflake protocol:
Step 1: accept that most people with co-morbidities survive CoronaChan.
Step 2: do something about your co-morbidities. Do you smoke? Stop. Are you a giant fat fuck? Drink water, eat healthy and move your fat ass. No more excuses. Time for you to see your dick again. You don't need a gym. Walking is free and breathing fresh air and getting Vitamin D from the sun is vital for your immune system.
Step 3: if you either can't (or won't) do something about your co-morbidities, then accept the risk and live your damn life while you still can. You ain't gonna live forever and living in fear won't extend your life one day.

The overwhelming majority of us have 99.8% or greater survival chance from the China Virus. The world is a dangerous place. Cars, trains, planes all crash. Cancer causing crap is always nearby in the modern world. Totally healthy humans die of weird shit all the damn time. Innocent people die of violence every day. The time to live is now. Hiding from the sniffles ain't living.

As the old saying goes, if you ain't busy being born, you're busy dying.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
HERE IS YOUR MASK PROTOCOL:

Step 1: Throw away your damn mask.
Step 2: Stop living like a fucking cuck.

This is America. Land of the free and home of the brave. That's not a slogan. That's how your ancestors built this nation under FAR greater dangers, challenges and stress than 99% of you have ever faced. Respect their sacrifices by growing a pair now.

And masks were always a joke. The new studies with real math proves the mask mandates are worthless and the old studies pre-Corona repeated the same thing. Ever smell a fart? That's because that's dudes' poo-poo flew out of his ass through his jeans across the room and into your nose. Yes, every fart you smell is SHIT particles in your nose.

But I have co-morbidities!!! I'm in danger!

Here's your special snowflake protocol:
Step 1: accept that most people with co-morbidities survive CoronaChan.
Step 2: do something about your co-morbidities. Do you smoke? Stop. Are you a giant fat fuck? Drink water, eat healthy and move your fat ass. No more excuses. Time for you to see your dick again. You don't need a gym. Walking is free and breathing fresh air and getting Vitamin D from the sun is vital for your immune system.
Step 3: if you either can't (or won't) do something about your co-morbidities, then accept the risk and live your damn life while you still can. You ain't gonna live forever and living in fear won't extend your life one day.

The overwhelming majority of us have 99.8% or greater survival chance from the China Virus. The world is a dangerous place. Cars, trains, planes all crash. Cancer causing crap is always nearby in the modern world. Totally healthy humans die of weird shit all the damn time. Innocent people die of violence every day. The time to live is now. Hiding from the sniffles ain't living.

As the old saying goes, if you ain't busy being born, you're busy dying.
Feel better now, nutter? You're a sad, silly little bitch.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on December 24, 2020, 05:36:25 PM
I prefer the under the nose mask protocol so you can look good while getting less side effects.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on December 24, 2020, 07:35:54 PM
...stuff...

As a slightly overweight, late-middle-aged diabetic, I endorse this message...

I'm just pissed that I can't go to the gym on a daily basis anymore thanks to Governor Mikey.  >:(
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on December 24, 2020, 07:52:06 PM
HERE IS YOUR MASK PROTOCOL:

Step 1: Throw away your damn mask.
Step 2: Stop living like a fucking cuck.

And they say on this day Spinachcat's balls grew three sizes.  The Spinachcat had a strength of ten Spinachcats plus two.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 08:34:09 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 08:39:01 PM
HERE IS YOUR MASK PROTOCOL:

Step 1: Throw away your damn mask.
Step 2: Stop living like a fucking cuck.

And they say on this day Spinachcat's balls grew three sizes.  The Spinachcat had a strength of ten Spinachcats plus two.
So stunning. So brave. We have a real Caitlyn Jenner among us.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: EOTB on December 24, 2020, 11:46:53 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on December 24, 2020, 11:59:00 PM
I'm just waiting for the CDC, WHO, et al ., to push a mandatory solution to the masks:
PLASTIC! Plastic is better than paper machete.
So to prevent COVID, place a plastic bag over your head and tie it off around your neck with razorwire. This way, the virus won't get in AND no one will want to come within 6 feet of you and your blood spurts!
Also, the media will reiterate: And radiation is good for you too!
 ::)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 25, 2020, 02:05:45 AM
I'm just waiting for the CDC, WHO, et al ., to push a mandatory solution to the masks:
PLASTIC! Plastic is better than paper machete.
So to prevent COVID, place a plastic bag over your head and tie it off around your neck with razorwire. This way, the virus won't get in AND no one will want to come within 6 feet of you and your blood spurts!
Also, the media will reiterate: And radiation is good for you too!
 ::)
I guess we should all be thankful you're not an advisor for the outgoing president.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 02:12:03 AM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.

Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on December 25, 2020, 03:49:43 AM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

Thanks for that article.

Its nice to know that since I cover my nose and mouth when I cough or sneeze, like any human being over the age of five with a reasonable upbringing, I won't be spreading droplets that way.

...and since I am antisocial and don't talk to people, I won't be spitting on them, and the only virus I'll be spreading is from normal exhalation.  Since masks don't stop that transmission, I will continue to go mask-free in good conscience.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on December 25, 2020, 08:24:39 AM
Man I wasted a good Dr. Seuss reference.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 25, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.
By that rationale, you could argue that the government can do literally anything, as long as it can be argued that it in some way contributes to public health. It requires no action on the part of the so-called aggressor, no direct evidence of harm, no clear standard of evidence, and no measure of the harm caused by the restrictions. That's far beyond the scope of even the most totalitarian regimes in history.

The traditional standard during epidemics is that the government can quarantine people or otherwise impose behavioral restrictions on people who are showing symptoms, in order to protect the wider public. Flipping that, and imposing great harm on the entire public in order to protect against something that affects only a tiny percentage of the public at any time, and which is less dangerous than the seasonal flu to the vast majority of the school and working age public (everyone under the age of 49), is cartoonish, mustache-twirling villainy, even if we ignore the science and assume that masks work.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: VisionStorm on December 25, 2020, 09:47:52 AM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.

Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.

We're not talking about people swinging their arms wildly, blowing cigarette smoke straight onto someone's face or randomly shooting a gun into a crowd. We're talking about people breathing--BREATHING! This is the "freedom" that you're framing as "irresponsible behavior", you fucking lunatic.

BREATHING!!!

Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population. When we get to the point where we're curtailing people's right to BREATHE over virus that they probably don't even have and it's not likely to kill anyone around them even if they did, we're no longer talking reasonable precautions. We're talking people irrationally OBSESSED with the illusion of "safety". And if our species is so fucking WEAK it requires everyone around them to stop breathing in order to withstand a fucking bug, maybe it deserves to die out.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 25, 2020, 09:54:06 AM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.

Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.

We're not talking about people swinging their arms wildly, blowing cigarette smoke straight onto someone's face or randomly shooting a gun into a crowd. We're talking about people breathing--BREATHING! This is the "freedom" that you're framing as "irresponsible behavior", you fucking lunatic.

BREATHING!!!

Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population. When we get to the point where we're curtailing people's right to BREATHE over virus that they probably don't even have and it's not likely to kill anyone around them even if they did, we're no longer talking reasonable precautions. We're talking people irrationally OBSESSED with the illusion of "safety". And if our species is so fucking WEAK it requires everyone around them to stop breathing in order to withstand a fucking bug, maybe it deserves to die out.
A mask does not inhibit breathing (nor speaking). In a similar way, while we don't stop you from shitting yourself in public, we do have laws that require you to wear pants while doing so.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: VisionStorm on December 25, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.

Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.

We're not talking about people swinging their arms wildly, blowing cigarette smoke straight onto someone's face or randomly shooting a gun into a crowd. We're talking about people breathing--BREATHING! This is the "freedom" that you're framing as "irresponsible behavior", you fucking lunatic.

BREATHING!!!

Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population. When we get to the point where we're curtailing people's right to BREATHE over virus that they probably don't even have and it's not likely to kill anyone around them even if they did, we're no longer talking reasonable precautions. We're talking people irrationally OBSESSED with the illusion of "safety". And if our species is so fucking WEAK it requires everyone around them to stop breathing in order to withstand a fucking bug, maybe it deserves to die out.
A mask does not inhibit breathing (nor speaking). In a similar way, while we don't stop you from shitting yourself in public, we do have laws that require you to wear pants while doing so.

Exhaling is not the same fucking thing as shitting, you fucking mongoloid! Do you fucking subhumans speak in anything other than false equivalencies?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 12:13:29 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

Thanks for that article.

Its nice to know that since I cover my nose and mouth when I cough or sneeze, like any human being over the age of five with a reasonable upbringing, I won't be spreading droplets that way.

...and since I am antisocial and don't talk to people, I won't be spitting on them, and the only virus I'll be spreading is from normal exhalation.  Since masks don't stop that transmission, I will continue to go mask-free in good conscience.

That's not what it says. It says you spread it by exhaling and talking as well.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 25, 2020, 12:15:05 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.

Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.

We're not talking about people swinging their arms wildly, blowing cigarette smoke straight onto someone's face or randomly shooting a gun into a crowd. We're talking about people breathing--BREATHING! This is the "freedom" that you're framing as "irresponsible behavior", you fucking lunatic.

BREATHING!!!

Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population. When we get to the point where we're curtailing people's right to BREATHE over virus that they probably don't even have and it's not likely to kill anyone around them even if they did, we're no longer talking reasonable precautions. We're talking people irrationally OBSESSED with the illusion of "safety". And if our species is so fucking WEAK it requires everyone around them to stop breathing in order to withstand a fucking bug, maybe it deserves to die out.
A mask does not inhibit breathing (nor speaking). In a similar way, while we don't stop you from shitting yourself in public, we do have laws that require you to wear pants while doing so.

Exhaling is not the same fucking thing as shitting, you fucking mongoloid! Do you fucking subhumans speak in anything other than false equivalencies?
Subhuman? Please tell us all about your master race theory and how you're planning to win the impending genocide.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.
By that rationale, you could argue that the government can do literally anything, as long as it can be argued that it in some way contributes to public health. It requires no action on the part of the so-called aggressor, no direct evidence of harm, no clear standard of evidence, and no measure of the harm caused by the restrictions. That's far beyond the scope of even the most totalitarian regimes in history.

The traditional standard during epidemics is that the government can quarantine people or otherwise impose behavioral restrictions on people who are showing symptoms, in order to protect the wider public. Flipping that, and imposing great harm on the entire public in order to protect against something that affects only a tiny percentage of the public at any time, and which is less dangerous than the seasonal flu to the vast majority of the school and working age public (everyone under the age of 49), is cartoonish, mustache-twirling villainy, even if we ignore the science and assume that masks work.

What I outlined is from John Locke and the basis of the Founders thinking in drafting the Constitution. It's the source of almost all our laws.

There is no standard regarding symptoms only. The Government quarantined entire cities back when the Founders were around, regardless of symptoms.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 12:18:50 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

They could block 110% of every disease ever known to man; that's still not a reason to mandate them.

Your freedom to swing your arm ends when you make contact with my face. The mask mandate isn't to protect you from others. It's to protect others from you. You don't have the freedom to risk the lives of those around you just because you don't like to wear masks any more than you have the freedom to just randomly fire off your gun when other people are down range just because you like to fire your gun which you otherwise have a right to have. Or, for that matter, to swing your arm in such a way that it is likely to connect with my face just because you like to swing your arms. Or to not smoke cancer-causing cigarettes indoors in a business.

So yeah, the reason to mandate masks is to protect other people from you, and the Government can mandate that without impinging on your freedom to enjoy a mask-free life, other than when you're not in public. Because you do not have the right to risk the lives of others around you like that.

We're not talking about people swinging their arms wildly, blowing cigarette smoke straight onto someone's face or randomly shooting a gun into a crowd. We're talking about people breathing--BREATHING! This is the "freedom" that you're framing as "irresponsible behavior", you fucking lunatic.

BREATHING!!!

Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population. When we get to the point where we're curtailing people's right to BREATHE over virus that they probably don't even have and it's not likely to kill anyone around them even if they did, we're no longer talking reasonable precautions. We're talking people irrationally OBSESSED with the illusion of "safety". And if our species is so fucking WEAK it requires everyone around them to stop breathing in order to withstand a fucking bug, maybe it deserves to die out.

Smoking is just exhaling as well. And you're whining like a little fucking baby over wearing a simple mask. It's not an illusion of safety - I linked to a study proving it does drastically enhance safety. But you don't want to do that, because you're a fucking immature child throwing a fit over a little mask because you have this delusion it's linked to some core freedom when it is not.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: EOTB on December 25, 2020, 01:46:56 PM
People have died from contagious airborne diseases since the moment of the founding.  The logic used requires masks in perpetuity, if it is applicable here.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: VisionStorm on December 25, 2020, 02:07:25 PM
People have died from contagious airborne diseases since the moment of the founding.  The logic used requires masks in perpetuity, if it is applicable here.

Exactly. And airborne diseases have been a thing since before our species even existed. But people suddenly want to become hysterical about them after tens of THOUSANDS of years (and HUNDREDS of thousands of years of our species existing), and pretend that this is a reasonable worldview somehow. This is fucking retarded! This is a height of neuroticism!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 25, 2020, 02:21:53 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

Thanks for that article.

Its nice to know that since I cover my nose and mouth when I cough or sneeze, like any human being over the age of five with a reasonable upbringing, I won't be spreading droplets that way.

...and since I am antisocial and don't talk to people, I won't be spitting on them, and the only virus I'll be spreading is from normal exhalation.  Since masks don't stop that transmission, I will continue to go mask-free in good conscience.

That's not what it says. It says you spread it by exhaling and talking as well.
Yes, by aerosolized particles. Which bypass masks. It was originally believed that COVID-19 was spread by droplets. This was wrong. In fact, the research led them to realize the concepts of aerosolization they were using to model diseases were wrong. It's not that airborne diseases fall into two well-defined categories: Aerosolized and non-aerosolized. It's that aerosolization is a spectrum, and all airborne diseases are aerosolized to a greater or lesser degree. More than that, the novel coronavirus is far more aerosolized than they initially believed. In fact, that's the leading explanation for why masks don't work -- the disease is largely spread by tiny, airborne droplets that pass through masks as if they weren't there, and which quickly fill any room. This is why all those bus riders caught the disease, from someone who was facing the other direction and almost 10 meters away. That's why they were detecting the particle in hospital ducts. That's why ventilation is important, because you can't stop the spread with simple barriers, but you can with airflow.

That's why the study you linked is garbage. It hasn't been published or made available, so we can only rely on quotes and summaries by journalists. But if that statement about reducing 90% of the disease is correct and not a fabrication or misinterpretation by a reporter, or taken horribly out of context, the engineering students who conducted the experiment don't even know the first thing about the disease. Large droplets are not the primary transmission mechanism, and thus can't be responsible for an order of magnitude difference.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 07:33:42 PM
Yes, by aerosolized particles. Which bypass masks.

Again, not what it says. This would go so much easier if you read the thing you're responding to.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 07:36:07 PM
People have died from contagious airborne diseases since the moment of the founding.  The logic used requires masks in perpetuity, if it is applicable here.

Exactly. And airborne diseases have been a thing since before our species even existed. But people suddenly want to become hysterical about them after tens of THOUSANDS of years (and HUNDREDS of thousands of years of our species existing), and pretend that this is a reasonable worldview somehow. This is fucking retarded! This is a height of neuroticism!

It's because of the number of people dying and being hospitalized by this one. Obviously. Your argument is akin to saying we shouldn't be bothered by nuclear blasts because we're being irradiated by the sun every day. Orders of degree are critical to any kind of discussion like this. Our hospitals are literally full. Zero ICU beds left. Almost zero normal hospital beds left. More people dead this year than in any year of your life. USA deaths from Covid are now at 330,034. Acknowledge orders of magnitude are relevant, and then we can discuss if this order of magnitude warrants a simple mask until the vaccine is distributed enough.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on December 25, 2020, 08:14:47 PM
Can we just ignore HappyDaze and Mistwell already?  They don't want a discussion, or add anything to these discussions.  They just want to give us the same bullshit which was proven to not be true in prior threads.  They want us to shut up.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 25, 2020, 08:28:42 PM
Can we just ignore HappyDaze and Mistwell already?  They don't want a discussion, or add anything to these discussions.  They just want to give us the same bullshit which was proven to not be true in prior threads.  They want us to shut up.
Have I asked you to shut up? I'm perfectly fine with you continuing to embarass yourself through stupidity that you want to call patriotism. However, if you want to ignore me, feel free, but I'll still call out your idiocy for others
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on December 25, 2020, 08:33:43 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 25, 2020, 08:44:30 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's, like, your opinion, man. I'm a conservative even if I'm not a right-wing extremist, and I support reasonable masking requirements and some limitations on business access. I find that it's the right-wing extremist assholes that see the measures as all or nothing.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on December 25, 2020, 09:11:09 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 25, 2020, 10:16:45 PM
Yes, by aerosolized particles. Which bypass masks.

Again, not what it says. This would go so much easier if you read the thing you're responding to.
I didn't say the article said that. I was pointing out why the article is based on faulty science.

This would go much easier if you read the rest of what I said, where I explained that in detail.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: rawma on December 26, 2020, 02:21:01 AM
Yes, by aerosolized particles. Which bypass masks.

Again, not what it says. This would go so much easier if you read the thing you're responding to.
I didn't say the article said that. I was pointing out why the article is based on faulty science.

This would go much easier if you read the rest of what I said, where I explained that in detail.

It would help if you would provide a link to support your assertion that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission. The World Health Organization seems to consider both; if masks reduce the one significantly, that should still have a useful effect. Nobody is suggesting that masks alone are sufficient steps.

While experimentation in laboratories is certainly important, I am more encouraged by observed results in the real world, such as the differing experience of Kansas counties with mask mandates versus those without.
https://apnews.com/article/health-kansas-virus-outbreak-f218e1a38cce6b2af63c1cd23f1d234e
This could be for other reasons, of course; a mask mandate might include or at least encourage other steps to reduce transmission, or people in counties who resist mask mandates may also resist other steps to discourage transmission.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 26, 2020, 03:00:22 AM
Yes, by aerosolized particles. Which bypass masks.

Again, not what it says. This would go so much easier if you read the thing you're responding to.
I didn't say the article said that. I was pointing out why the article is based on faulty science.

This would go much easier if you read the rest of what I said, where I explained that in detail.

It would help if you would provide a link to support your assertion that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission. The World Health Organization seems to consider both; if masks reduce the one significantly, that should still have a useful effect. Nobody is suggesting that masks alone are sufficient steps.

While experimentation in laboratories is certainly important, I am more encouraged by observed results in the real world, such as the differing experience of Kansas counties with mask mandates versus those without.
https://apnews.com/article/health-kansas-virus-outbreak-f218e1a38cce6b2af63c1cd23f1d234e
This could be for other reasons, of course; a mask mandate might include or at least encourage other steps to reduce transmission, or people in counties who resist mask mandates may also resist other steps to discourage transmission.
I've provided many links in the coronavirus thread. I agree that real world examples matter more than theory. So here are few focused more on pragmatics. The first is the most significant recent study on masks. It's a large, randomized study, so unlike many of the sloppy, limited, and biased studies at the start of the pandemic, it meets very high standards of evidence.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
Slightly older, but surveys of the evidence on masks, from the CDC and Oxford:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

I can also link to dozens of other analyses of areas with and without mask mandates, and before and after mandates, around the world. Some do better, some do worse. When you have that many areas, you can always find one that supports your theory. Not to mention, it's really hard to control for all other factors. But when looked at in toto, there doesn't seem to be much if any effect, overall. Here are some charts that suggest masks don't work, though remember I'm arguing they don't really tell us anything:
https://rationalground.com/mask-charts/

Aerosolization:
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/71/9/2311/5867798
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: VisionStorm on December 26, 2020, 12:43:03 PM
Can we just ignore HappyDaze and Mistwell already?  They don't want a discussion, or add anything to these discussions.  They just want to give us the same bullshit which was proven to not be true in prior threads.  They want us to shut up.

TBH, from what I've seen from the times I've been active in this section of this forum, jhkim is the ONLY ONE from the "other side" of these discussions that makes any type of meaningful contribution or attempt to properly substantiate what they say. Everyone else is just a disingenuous POS or some rando (like Bren) that just pops in to throw a few pointless jabs and blanket assertions about everyone on the "right" (which includes EVERYONE who's not a SJW or supports the corporatist warmongering "Democratic" party) and not address anything.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 26, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 26, 2020, 01:44:53 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Give him a little more time and I'm sure he'll surprise you with even more explicitly anti-Semitic rantings. To be fair though, I don't think he's going to limit himself to just that...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on December 26, 2020, 06:13:01 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Give him a little more time and I'm sure he'll surprise you with even more explicitly anti-Semitic rantings. To be fair though, I don't think he's going to limit himself to just that...
Why? Because he's an obvious capo who delights in the suffering of others?
...
I makes me truly wonder what is making me anti-Semitic other than SCREAMING about the plan of kill Jewish people in concentration camps, here in America? Is it because I vehemently disagree with those who FORGET HISTORY? Or are you attempting to label me a NAZI because we disagree?
Hm.
Makes me wonder...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 26, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Give him a little more time and I'm sure he'll surprise you with even more explicitly anti-Semitic rantings. To be fair though, I don't think he's going to limit himself to just that...
Why? Because he's an obvious capo who delights in the suffering of others?
...
I makes me truly wonder what is making me anti-Semitic other than SCREAMING about the plan of kill Jewish people in concentration camps, here in America? Is it because I vehemently disagree with those who FORGET HISTORY? Or are you attempting to label me a NAZI because we disagree?
Hm.
Makes me wonder...
Yes, keep on deflecting. Others won't have to wonder much longer, and no one has to label you when we can just point at the labels you've put on yourself.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 26, 2020, 07:07:34 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Give him a little more time and I'm sure he'll surprise you with even more explicitly anti-Semitic rantings. To be fair though, I don't think he's going to limit himself to just that...
Why? Because he's an obvious capo who delights in the suffering of others?
...
I makes me truly wonder what is making me anti-Semitic other than SCREAMING about the plan of kill Jewish people in concentration camps, here in America? Is it because I vehemently disagree with those who FORGET HISTORY? Or are you attempting to label me a NAZI because we disagree?
Hm.
Makes me wonder...

What does the phrase "zionist scum" mean to you, and why do you think it applies specifically to me?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on December 26, 2020, 09:01:46 PM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Give him a little more time and I'm sure he'll surprise you with even more explicitly anti-Semitic rantings. To be fair though, I don't think he's going to limit himself to just that...
Why? Because he's an obvious capo who delights in the suffering of others?
...
I makes me truly wonder what is making me anti-Semitic other than SCREAMING about the plan of kill Jewish people in concentration camps, here in America? Is it because I vehemently disagree with those who FORGET HISTORY? Or are you attempting to label me a NAZI because we disagree?
Hm.
Makes me wonder...

What does the phrase "zionist scum" mean to you, and why do you think it applies specifically to me?
A "ZIONIST" SCUMBAG:
There are those who claim to be true zionists but are NOT. They despise Israel, observant Jews, and Christians who support them. They HATE GOD, and they believe MEN can be AS GODS. They are ashamed of themselves, their heritage. They want to be just like "EVERYONE ELSE". They support U.N.  Resolution 3379 ( See https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/24893 ), for example. I place the Rothschildes and others in this EXACT category. They worship the mountain, not the God who created the mountain. They supported the German Nazis, and were the harshest torturers during that time of those who are true to themselves. They are the followers of evil, NOT of the laws. They hate all laws and consider themselves superior to them. They say they love, but they only hate. They have broken their oaths and care not for their kin. They think they are superior, when they are the worst upon this earth.  They call themselves ZIONISTS to confuse others.
That is what I believe you to be.
Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on December 26, 2020, 09:18:58 PM
That is what I believe you to be.
Prove me wrong.
Isn't that special. Nobody is going to prove anything to you because you'll never admit you're wrong, so you just go on thinking what you want about others, and I'll keep thinking your real name appears on the sex offender registry. Oh, and...prove me wrong, bitch.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on December 26, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Greetings!

Consolcwby has mentioned that he is Jewish--and he has championed the security and rights of Israel, and Christians alike. That is not the attitude of people that hate Jews or Christians, or who are anti-Semitic. Trying to paint him as anti-Semitic or anti-Christian is being disingenuous and wrong.

Mistwell is Jewish as well. So, he can't be anti-Semitic either, and I don't think Mistwell is anti-Christian, either.

Zionists? I may be out of the loop here in this particular, but I was under the understanding that Zionists were elements of Jewish partisans, politicians, and lobbyists, amongst other advocates, for the official establishment and recognition of a Jewish State--the historical land of Israel--before World War II, when they were arguing with the British Empire, which at the time occupied Israel as a protectorate and had not at that time yet, recognized Israel as a state, or had given them independence. Their work eventually led to the British Empire organizing the nation of Israel, and recognizing them as an independent nation state, and relinquishing any political or military claims to the land, as agreed upon and set out by the UN in 1948 or so, when Israel became an independent nation state again. Zionists were also supported and encouraged by American Christians as well--and have been supported financially, morally, and politically by American Christians ever since--as well as of course by American Jews.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 27, 2020, 12:16:35 AM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because leftists are NOT liberals. They get wet thinking of child-murder, death camps, burkas or any covering over faces, and rape. And those like Mistwell, the self-hating CAPOS - well, the founders and the Torah DID warn about zionist scum like him. I tried to reach him, but I guess when you're fap-fap-fapping to your own bloodlust and lies.... Well, at least he'll die along with people like me! That should be a relief for his idiocy!

Wait, you're calling me "zionist scum" and claiming I have "bloodlust" because I disagree with you about the election and masks?

OK. You're officially creepy now.

Have I ever even mentioned Israel? I can only assume "Zionist scum" is some issue with Jews, given I don't think I have ever mentioned Israel.
Give him a little more time and I'm sure he'll surprise you with even more explicitly anti-Semitic rantings. To be fair though, I don't think he's going to limit himself to just that...
Why? Because he's an obvious capo who delights in the suffering of others?
...
I makes me truly wonder what is making me anti-Semitic other than SCREAMING about the plan of kill Jewish people in concentration camps, here in America? Is it because I vehemently disagree with those who FORGET HISTORY? Or are you attempting to label me a NAZI because we disagree?
Hm.
Makes me wonder...

What does the phrase "zionist scum" mean to you, and why do you think it applies specifically to me?
A "ZIONIST" SCUMBAG:
There are those who claim to be true zionists but are NOT. They despise Israel, observant Jews, and Christians who support them. They HATE GOD, and they believe MEN can be AS GODS. They are ashamed of themselves, their heritage. They want to be just like "EVERYONE ELSE". They support U.N.  Resolution 3379 ( See https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/24893 ), for example. I place the Rothschildes and others in this EXACT category. They worship the mountain, not the God who created the mountain. They supported the German Nazis, and were the harshest torturers during that time of those who are true to themselves. They are the followers of evil, NOT of the laws. They hate all laws and consider themselves superior to them. They say they love, but they only hate. They have broken their oaths and care not for their kin. They think they are superior, when they are the worst upon this earth.  They call themselves ZIONISTS to confuse others.
That is what I believe you to be.
Prove me wrong.

I don't have to prove shit to you. I have never once mentioned my views on Israel or religion to you, or to anyone here. not one time. And your assumptions about my views are quite wrong.

Which means you're lying. Poorly.

Sometimes antisemites use the cover of "I don't hate Jews, I just don't like Zionists" as their excuse for their behavior. They talk about how they don't like the policies of Israel, but view that as separate from Jews in general. You see that kind of talk on some white power message boards and such.  It's bullshit, but it's a plausible deniability tactic to escape being caught being actually antisemitic.

But, I think you fucked up. You used that old dog whistle cover, probably because you've used it before and seen it used and talked about elsewhere. But you failed to remember it had to only be used with someone who had actually said something about Israel.

I hadn't. All you knew about me was my family members had been killed in the Holocaust, and that perhaps I was Jewish. But you don't know a single thing about my views on Israel or religion. But you went to "Zionist Scumbag" as an attack anyway. Because that's your usual cover for you to express your hatred of Jews without being caught, while still sending a dog whistle message to fellow supremacists that you're one of their tribe and think Jews are scum of the earth.

Except, you were just plain too dumb to use it right. You fucked up. And now you're caught.

I'm sure you're going to scramble and bluff and bluster now. You'll pretend they were safe assumptions because I act like X and Y and so of course I must be a Zionist Scum. But it's going to be obvious flailing. Because you still have no idea, no idea at all, what my views are on Israel and religion. You never had any basis for any assumptions about those topics. And your bluster will be apparent to anyone who sees it. Because you fucked up. Because you're caught, and you know it, and now you're desperate to try and find cover for fucking up with your first attempt at cover. And everyone will see that desperation in your tone. Because when someone's back is against the wall and they're faced with the curtain being pulled down, there isn't much choice other than to react in desperation.

Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snark Knight on December 27, 2020, 09:09:27 AM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Ehhh, I recall back when the pandemic was really kicking off around Feburary that it was largely a right-wing stance to push for lockdowns, closing borders, taking the virus seriously, etc. The Left by contrast were the ones talking about how it was just "the flu" and that the whole virus was being blown out of proportion by evil nazi fascist bigots as an excuse to be xenophobic towards Chy-nah.

At some point between Feburary and April some switch got flipped and both sides did a total 180.

The whole thing has looked like such a politicised/partisan farce as an outsider looking in on the US.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Trond on December 27, 2020, 10:36:49 AM
Forget about the masks, I just wish everything could reopen again. I can live with the mask.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: rawma on December 27, 2020, 01:10:18 PM
It would help if you would provide a link to support your assertion that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission. The World Health Organization seems to consider both; if masks reduce the one significantly, that should still have a useful effect. Nobody is suggesting that masks alone are sufficient steps.

While experimentation in laboratories is certainly important, I am more encouraged by observed results in the real world, such as the differing experience of Kansas counties with mask mandates versus those without.
https://apnews.com/article/health-kansas-virus-outbreak-f218e1a38cce6b2af63c1cd23f1d234e
This could be for other reasons, of course; a mask mandate might include or at least encourage other steps to reduce transmission, or people in counties who resist mask mandates may also resist other steps to discourage transmission.
I've provided many links in the coronavirus thread. I agree that real world examples matter more than theory. So here are few focused more on pragmatics. The first is the most significant recent study on masks. It's a large, randomized study, so unlike many of the sloppy, limited, and biased studies at the start of the pandemic, it meets very high standards of evidence.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
Slightly older, but surveys of the evidence on masks, from the CDC and Oxford:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

These don't seem to support your assertion that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission. An interesting limitation in the first study:
Quote
no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others

Masks have generally been presented as primarily protecting people other than the wearers, but providing some protection to the wearer (among the conclusions, "The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection."). I suspect that mask mandates may be helpful where rates of infection are very high.

Among the problems with masks that are not addressed by mask mandates: people wear them incorrectly, they use masks of materials that are less effective, and they don't wash the cloth ones as they should.

But mask mandates address other issues: remind people to take other appropriate actions (social distancing, not touching their faces, avoiding large gatherings), reduce pressure not to wear masks, and reduce feelings that individuals have no control. And, if the protection is primarily for other people, it works against the free rider problem.

Quote
Aerosolization:
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/71/9/2311/5867798

They don't seem to be advocating against masks, which are not mentioned but may be part of what they describe as droplet precautions (presumably also sneezing into your elbow and such). And it doesn't support that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission, although it may be that if we defend against every other mode of transmission it will account for more infection.

Ventilation was also a goal in the 1918 pandemic, apparently affecting heating system design:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-05/the-curious-history-of-steam-heat-and-pandemics
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: rawma on December 27, 2020, 01:35:53 PM
Ehhh, I recall back when the pandemic was really kicking off around Feburary that it was largely a right-wing stance to push for lockdowns, closing borders, taking the virus seriously, etc. The Left by contrast were the ones talking about how it was just "the flu" and that the whole virus was being blown out of proportion by evil nazi fascist bigots as an excuse to be xenophobic towards Chy-nah.

At some point between Feburary and April some switch got flipped and both sides did a total 180.

The whole thing has looked like such a politicised/partisan farce as an outsider looking in on the US.

I remember this:
Quote from: Joe Biden on Twitter in October 2019
We are not prepared for a pandemic. Trump has rolled back progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. We need leadership that builds public trust, focuses on real threats, and mobilizes the world to stop outbreaks before they reach our shores.

I remember Trump mishandling travel bans (allowing 40,000 people in from China afterward and having no provision for quarantining travelers anyway; the Europe ban was way too late and just panicked people into overloading airports, which probably did more to spread the virus than not). I remember Trump not wanting an infected cruise ship to land because it would increase "his numbers" and I also remember them making no provision to quarantine anyone from that ship when they finally allowed it in. I don't remember people on the right advocating for closed borders since 2016, but not for anything else like lockdowns.

I remember Nancy Pelosi visiting Chinatown to discourage attacks on Asian Americans which were being whipped up by blaming China for the coronavirus. I remember Matt Gaetz mocking concerns by wearing a gas mask into the House of Representatives. I remember Trump praising Xi's efforts and transparency, back when he hoped the Chinese would help his reelection.

I remember Trump's repeated comments that the numbers would soon drop to zero, that it would disappear in warm weather, that it was no worse than the flu, that he was handling it better than the 2009 H1N1 outbreak. The only honest statement he seems to have given in the early days was privately to Bob Woodward.

I remember that the Trump administration chose to respond less to the pandemic because it seemed to be a problem for "blue states" and therefore politically advantageous to let them suffer. Did Jared Kushner ever sue as threatened over the Project Lincoln billboard that quoted him as saying "[New Yorkers] are going to suffer and that’s their problem"?

I don't remember anybody significant on the left saying it was "just the flu".

It is interesting that even you recall that the right's attitude to the pandemic changed away from strong measures in the time period that it became obvious it was a huge problem; if you were correct about an opposite change in  the left, it would be like the right acts against actual evidence and the left responds appropriately to new evidence.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 27, 2020, 11:24:58 PM
It would help if you would provide a link to support your assertion that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission. The World Health Organization seems to consider both; if masks reduce the one significantly, that should still have a useful effect. Nobody is suggesting that masks alone are sufficient steps.

While experimentation in laboratories is certainly important, I am more encouraged by observed results in the real world, such as the differing experience of Kansas counties with mask mandates versus those without.
https://apnews.com/article/health-kansas-virus-outbreak-f218e1a38cce6b2af63c1cd23f1d234e
This could be for other reasons, of course; a mask mandate might include or at least encourage other steps to reduce transmission, or people in counties who resist mask mandates may also resist other steps to discourage transmission.
I've provided many links in the coronavirus thread. I agree that real world examples matter more than theory. So here are few focused more on pragmatics. The first is the most significant recent study on masks. It's a large, randomized study, so unlike many of the sloppy, limited, and biased studies at the start of the pandemic, it meets very high standards of evidence.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
Slightly older, but surveys of the evidence on masks, from the CDC and Oxford:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

These don't seem to support your assertion that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission. An interesting limitation in the first study:
Quote
no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others

Masks have generally been presented as primarily protecting people other than the wearers, but providing some protection to the wearer (among the conclusions, "The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection."). I suspect that mask mandates may be helpful where rates of infection are very high.

Among the problems with masks that are not addressed by mask mandates: people wear them incorrectly, they use masks of materials that are less effective, and they don't wash the cloth ones as they should.

But mask mandates address other issues: remind people to take other appropriate actions (social distancing, not touching their faces, avoiding large gatherings), reduce pressure not to wear masks, and reduce feelings that individuals have no control. And, if the protection is primarily for other people, it works against the free rider problem.

Quote
Aerosolization:
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/71/9/2311/5867798

They don't seem to be advocating against masks, which are not mentioned but may be part of what they describe as droplet precautions (presumably also sneezing into your elbow and such). And it doesn't support that aerosolized particles are the more significant mode of transmission, although it may be that if we defend against every other mode of transmission it will account for more infection.

Ventilation was also a goal in the 1918 pandemic, apparently affecting heating system design:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-05/the-curious-history-of-steam-heat-and-pandemics
Different degrees of certainty. The empirical evidence suggests masks have little or no effect. But why? Large droplet transmission can't explain it, aerosolization can. That doesn't mean it's the right answer, just it's the one answer that seems to fit the displayed behavior. I don't know of any studies that have empirically measured the primary mode of transmission, but we still have to make a best guess.

It's worth remembering that we still know relatively little about COVID-19, and that it's a very strange virus.

Interesting link. I wonder whether, a century from now, any changes we make in response to sars2 will be recognized to have negative effects.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on December 28, 2020, 08:08:43 AM
I've never worn one.

Asymptomatic transmission is a fiction, the entire premise for mask-wearing is a fraud.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: rawma on December 28, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
Ventilation was also a goal in the 1918 pandemic, apparently affecting heating system design:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-05/the-curious-history-of-steam-heat-and-pandemics
Different degrees of certainty. The empirical evidence suggests masks have little or no effect. But why? Large droplet transmission can't explain it, aerosolization can. That doesn't mean it's the right answer, just it's the one answer that seems to fit the displayed behavior. I don't know of any studies that have empirically measured the primary mode of transmission, but we still have to make a best guess.

It's worth remembering that we still know relatively little about COVID-19, and that it's a very strange virus.

Yes, and that experts change their advice as more is learned should not be overly criticized. Doing nothing at all while waiting for complete knowledge is fair to criticize.

I recall reading past discussions of another bit of safety advice: wearing a bicycle helmet. There are accidents that it would help in, but unfortunately the bulk of bicycle accidents involve motor vehicles and the helmets would mostly be irrelevant. And like masks people wear helmets incorrectly and don't maintain them. If bicycle accident injuries preventable with helmets threatened to overwhelm hospital capacity, I think there would be a lot more mandatory bicycle helmet laws. But as it is there are still mandatory bicycle helmet laws in the US, although most are aimed at children.

Quote
Interesting link. I wonder whether, a century from now, any changes we make in response to sars2 will be recognized to have negative effects.

To an extent, it's surprising that that change persisted so long. If people stopped shaking hands in favor of bowing to each other or anything else, that would probably be a welcome change. Working remotely seems like it might persist, at least for part of the time and in jobs most compatible with it, and that might increase an existing trend for people to be isolated and lonely.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on December 28, 2020, 03:52:20 PM
I've never worn one.

Asymptomatic transmission is a fiction, the entire premise for mask-wearing is a fraud.

1) Pre-symptomatic transmission is real and proven.
2) A lot of people don't recognize something is a symptom, or write it off as something else.

When a stomach ache is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people write it off as just having eaten the wrong thing.

When sniffles is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people write it off as just seasonal allergies.

When a headache is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people write it off as just a headache perhaps from stress or lack of caffeine or lack of sleep.

When loss of smell is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people simply never notice.

If you don't recognize you have a symptom, then it's not asymptomatic transmission, but you might not wear a mask because you don't know you have a symptom.

And of course you don't know you're going to show a symptom tomorrow, but are contagious right now.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on December 28, 2020, 04:53:45 PM
1) Pre-symptomatic transmission is real and proven.
2) A lot of people don't recognize something is a symptom, or write it off as something else.

When a stomach ache is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people write it off as just having eaten the wrong thing.

When sniffles is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people write it off as just seasonal allergies.

When a headache is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people write it off as just a headache perhaps from stress or lack of caffeine or lack of sleep.

When loss of smell is a frequent first symptom, a whole lot of people simply never notice.

If you don't recognize you have a symptom, then it's not asymptomatic transmission, but you might not wear a mask because you don't know you have a symptom.

And of course you don't know you're going to show a symptom tomorrow, but are contagious right now.

Good job I've had none of those besides the odd sniffles. In any case, the one that really matters as far as transmitting goes is a cough, which I haven't had.

And you can shove your mask where the sun don't shine. I didn't wear one in any year previous to this and I'm not about to start.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 29, 2020, 12:10:14 AM
Yes, and that experts change their advice as more is learned should not be overly criticized. Doing nothing at all while waiting for complete knowledge is fair to criticize.

I recall reading past discussions of another bit of safety advice: wearing a bicycle helmet. There are accidents that it would help in, but unfortunately the bulk of bicycle accidents involve motor vehicles and the helmets would mostly be irrelevant. And like masks people wear helmets incorrectly and don't maintain them. If bicycle accident injuries preventable with helmets threatened to overwhelm hospital capacity, I think there would be a lot more mandatory bicycle helmet laws. But as it is there are still mandatory bicycle helmet laws in the US, although most are aimed at children.
Yes, they're bound to make mistakes at the start. I'm far more critical when they don't reassess. But I think one of the greatest failures of public health is conveying ambiguity. We need less reassurance and confidence, and more discussion of the limits of our knowledge.

It's been ages, so I could be misremembering, but I've seen bicycle helmets listed as one of the contributing factors that's led to childhood becoming much safer over the last 40 years.

I'm not sure I believe that. It could be true. But it could just as easily be false. People are terrible at statistics, and there's a lot of incentive for advocates and public officials to claim the measures they promoted or enacted really do work. All they need is a few sob stories to support their cause.

But figuring out what works is important. We can waste a lot of money and other resources if we listen to the emotional pleas, and ignore the numbers. Worse, we have limited resources. So when we spend them on things that don't help, we're not spending them on things that will help. It's a lost opportunity cost.

To an extent, it's surprising that that change persisted so long. If people stopped shaking hands in favor of bowing to each other or anything else, that would probably be a welcome change. Working remotely seems like it might persist, at least for part of the time and in jobs most compatible with it, and that might increase an existing trend for people to be isolated and lonely.
The trends toward social isolation might be one of those things they look back on in a 100 years, and say "what were they thinking?"
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: rawma on December 29, 2020, 01:59:32 AM
It's been ages, so I could be misremembering, but I've seen bicycle helmets listed as one of the contributing factors that's led to childhood becoming much safer over the last 40 years.

I'm not sure I believe that. It could be true. But it could just as easily be false. People are terrible at statistics, and there's a lot of incentive for advocates and public officials to claim the measures they promoted or enacted really do work. All they need is a few sob stories to support their cause.

I don't know what the story is on bicycle helmets. I just recall it as a surprising discussion because I had not thought about them; sort of, "of course bicycle helmets are good! but they don't really do much in practice because the problem is from motor vehicles", and I am probably not doing it justice.

The trends toward social isolation might be one of those things they look back on in a 100 years, and say "what were they thinking?"

I suspect that will be true, but it shouldn't all be blamed on the pandemic.
https://www.hrsa.gov/enews/past-issues/2019/january-17/loneliness-epidemic
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on December 29, 2020, 03:01:16 AM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's, like, your opinion, man. I'm a conservative even if I'm not a right-wing extremist, and I support reasonable masking requirements and some limitations on business access. I find that it's the right-wing extremist assholes that see the measures as all or nothing.

  If am curious about that statement.  What does conservative mean, and list some of your conservative positions.  I think with all the post shifting I am not sure what conservative, liberal, progressive, left wing extremist,  or right wing extremist mean.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on December 29, 2020, 05:10:21 AM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's, like, your opinion, man. I'm a conservative even if I'm not a right-wing extremist, and I support reasonable masking requirements and some limitations on business access. I find that it's the right-wing extremist assholes that see the measures as all or nothing.

  If am curious about that statement.  What does conservative mean, and list some of your conservative positions.  I think with all the post shifting I am not sure what conservative, liberal, progressive, left wing extremist,  or right wing extremist mean.

Greetings!

Hey there, Ogg! Well, as for Conservative, I would say it embraces a number of aspects for myself. Being an advocate of free-market Capitalism, generally, a *smaller*, restrained Federal government, strongly supporting Constitutionalism, our Constitutional Republic as our system of government; Strongly supporting Freedom of Speech, being pro-gun and supporting the 2nd Amendment; Advocating for our traditions, history, and culture, and supporting nationalism as opposed to Globalism; Generally, supporting traditional values, Christianity, being Pro-Life, a strong work-ethic, being independent and self-reliant. Opposing racialist, "Intersectionalism", Critical Race Theory, Feminism, Progressivism, Leftism, Globalism and Marxism. I think that serves as a good summary, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: VisionStorm on December 29, 2020, 09:45:33 AM
Greetings!

I think it is interesting that all of the people here--as well as in society--that are Leftists almost exclusively and stridently support mask wearing and strict lockdown policies for society in regards to the China virus, while more right-wing and Conservative people support freedom, for both individuals and individual communities making independent choices.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's, like, your opinion, man. I'm a conservative even if I'm not a right-wing extremist, and I support reasonable masking requirements and some limitations on business access. I find that it's the right-wing extremist assholes that see the measures as all or nothing.

  If am curious about that statement.  What does conservative mean, and list some of your conservative positions.  I think with all the post shifting I am not sure what conservative, liberal, progressive, left wing extremist,  or right wing extremist mean.

It's all completely subjective and it's only gotten more undefinable over the years--particularly over the past few years, when "right-wing" has become a slur, and anyone from the anonymous dregs of social media to the far reaching stench of the mainstream media networks can just assign it to you, regardless of what your views actually are. They're also just pointless labels because at the end of the day what people should do is assess every situation on a case by case basis and address the issue based on what's actually going on there and what actually could help fix a problem, rather than working backwards from a set of prescriptive ideological precepts on how to view the world or manage every social or political circumstance.

I don't care about "Left" or "Right", I care about the massive economic devastation that the lockdowns are bringing and the long term effects that it will inevitably have on society in general, along with the change in culture that will happen (and has already been happening for decades, since 9/11) as a result of most of the population just automatically accepting and defending every authoritarian edict that comes from the government, or even ANY perceived authority figure, including the mainstream media.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on December 31, 2020, 01:39:53 PM
The trends toward social isolation might be one of those things they look back on in a 100 years, and say "what were they thinking?"

I suspect that will be true, but it shouldn't all be blamed on the pandemic.
https://www.hrsa.gov/enews/past-issues/2019/january-17/loneliness-epidemic
I'm more worried about the kids. A lot of development for babies is about recognizing faces, and for school age children it's about socialization with their peers and developing interpersonal skills. Kids tend to be quite resilient, but we also know that things like strong trauma has lasting negative effects. With luck, they'll bounce back. But who knows?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on December 31, 2020, 10:53:22 PM
The trends toward social isolation might be one of those things they look back on in a 100 years, and say "what were they thinking?"

I suspect that will be true, but it shouldn't all be blamed on the pandemic.
https://www.hrsa.gov/enews/past-issues/2019/january-17/loneliness-epidemic
I'm more worried about the kids. A lot of development for babies is about recognizing faces, and for school age children it's about socialization with their peers and developing interpersonal skills. Kids tend to be quite resilient, but we also know that things like strong trauma has lasting negative effects. With luck, they'll bounce back. But who knows?
That's all true. Now that Jeffery Epstein is alive, those poor kids have even MORE to worry about! Fun Fact: Will J. Epstein become the new Chuck Norris?
My guess is this: Epstein will be the cure to the virus! He'll abuse it to death! What the HECK! Wouldn't THAT be kick in the NECK??
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on January 05, 2021, 02:04:07 PM
Masks block 99.9% of large Covid-linked droplets: study (https://news.yahoo.com/masks-block-99-9-large-131416084.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb&tsrc=fb)

The study focused on particles larger than 170 microns in diameter -- roughly two to four times the width of a human hair.
Aerosol particles, which tend to follow currents in the air, are generally described as smaller than 20 or 30 microns.


Study is worthless. 
Corona virus is aerosolized and can survive up to 30 feet.  Masks cannot save you. 
Corona has set you up the bomb. Make your time now.



Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on January 05, 2021, 03:35:06 PM
The masks are just a trial run for us to accept this:
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/750x445/816010.jpg)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on January 05, 2021, 06:03:55 PM
---snippp---
Corona has set you up the bomb. Make your time now.
A Despair-inducing and Esoteric-sounding sentence ~ please elucidate!
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/d0d1fe477d88acd6e6aed9941b630eb6/tumblr_p1h23dgF5Y1qjkre8o3_400.png)
We shall protect you in this thread!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: TNMalt on January 06, 2021, 02:23:06 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on January 06, 2021, 03:06:26 PM
I know 11 that have tested positive (and had symptoms)...some others were maybes earlier this year but couldn't get tested.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: shuddemell on January 06, 2021, 03:38:22 PM
As an "essential" worker, I've had it (in fact I was the first person to contract it at my plant). That was in June, and since then 76 people here at the plant have been infected with various outcomes. So far we have had no deaths but about 1/2 dozen hospitalizations. I myself had minor flu like symptoms (fever, body aches, bad headache and a few chills. For reference, I am 55 and have no real underlying health issues aside from being overweight). I contracted it from my brother (another essential worker) who was exposed at his job.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 05:21:10 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?
On a personal level, know several people that have had it and one that has died. If you include professional contacts, those numbers are both considerably higher, but as I'm a nurse, that's not likely to be surprising (unless you're one of those nutters that's in total denial about COVID).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on January 06, 2021, 11:22:16 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?
Several immediate family members, a few more distant relatives, and a close family friend who's still in the step down unit after spending more than 4 weeks on a ventilator. Professionally, surprisingly few given I'm healthcare-adjacent.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2021, 08:08:53 AM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?
Several immediate family members, a few more distant relatives, and a close family friend who's still in the step down unit after spending more than 4 weeks on a ventilator. Professionally, surprisingly few given I'm healthcare-adjacent.
This bug acts like it rolls on an RPG table for effects. One person will get it and never even notice, another gets mildly sick. a third winds up in the hospital, and a fourth keels over.

It's why I can't shake the notion that it was engineered specifically to cause paranoia and chaos. I know, I know, tinfoil hat, but damn.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: TNMalt on January 07, 2021, 08:57:22 AM
Mother nature can be a big evil troll when it comes to viruses. Sometimes out to kill us, other times rolling on the random effects chart to see what happens. Plus, more encouragement not to eat strange stuff from the local market anymore.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zirunel on January 07, 2021, 12:49:07 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

I have not had it, nor do I know anyone who has. But there is very little COVID in my neck of the woods, so not surprising.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zirunel on January 10, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

I have not had it, nor do I know anyone who has. But there is very little COVID in my neck of the woods, so not surprising.

In fact, after posting mostly single-digit daily new cases through the second wave, we just posted our first zero-new-cases day since November. Hopefully we can continue that trend.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Daztur on January 10, 2021, 04:08:17 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

I know zero people who have had it, the closest link between me and it is that the teacher of a different class of my secretary's daughter's kindergarten has it so her family is all home for a government-enforced quarantine.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on January 11, 2021, 11:01:48 AM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

I have not had it, nor do I know anyone who has. But there is very little COVID in my neck of the woods, so not surprising.

My boss got it.  Same age as me (40) but healthier (although he always gets a bad flu every year) and he said it was the worst flu he's ever had but he didn't even need to go to the hospital.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zalman on January 11, 2021, 12:29:14 PM
Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population.
(Emphasis mine)

My understanding is actually that 99.8% is the absolute worst survival rate, exhibited only in the 80-and-over age category (with an average of 2.5 co-morbidities). Everyone else's survival rate is significantly higher.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 11, 2021, 12:51:39 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

I think I might have had it just before March of last year. I was out sick a whole week, and it was the strangest thing. My tongue turned purpleish and I had trouble swallowing, while having mild cold/flu symptoms. I got better and when I made it back to work, the lockdowns started and we went to work from home. So I figured since I felt better, and was self-isolating, getting a test would be pointless. My brother/roommate did not get sick from me so that wasn't an issue.

But since I never got tested, I can't verify that it was Covid-19.

Other than that, I do not know anyone in person or any friend or family member that has gotten Covid.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Premier on January 11, 2021, 02:48:31 PM
My understanding is actually that 99.8% is the absolute worst survival rate, exhibited only in the 80-and-over age category (with an average of 2.5 co-morbidities). Everyone else's survival rate is significantly higher.

I'm curious what your sources are for that. That would be a 0.2% fatality rate in the worst age category. However, all sources (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality) I'm pulling up (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country) at random (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105914/coronavirus-death-rates-worldwide/) show much worse fatalities - and in national averages, not just the most endagered category. Are you sure not repeating this old canard (https://factcheck.afp.com/misleading-claim-circulates-online-about-infection-fatality-ratio-covid-19-us)?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on January 11, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
Over a fucking virus with a 99.8% survival rate for most of the population.
(Emphasis mine)

My understanding is actually that 99.8% is the absolute worst survival rate, exhibited only in the 80-and-over age category (with an average of 2.5 co-morbidities). Everyone else's survival rate is significantly higher.
No, it's considerably higher than that among the high risk populations. The overall infection fatality rate seems to be about 0.3%, give or take, across the entire population. But that skyrockets after age 60/65. Though it's lower than that for school kids and the working age population -- for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 08:31:39 AM
No, it's considerably higher than that among the high risk populations. The overall infection fatality rate seems to be about 0.3%, give or take, across the entire population. But that skyrockets after age 60/65. Though it's lower than that for school kids and the working age population -- for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.
A tinfoil hat theory I've had for a while is that China did cook this bug up, but it wasn't meant to get loose -- it was to cull their aging population and clear them out.

Like I said, very tinfoil hat territory. But let's be honest, we could all easily see the CCP doing this.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on January 12, 2021, 12:43:31 PM
No, it's considerably higher than that among the high risk populations. The overall infection fatality rate seems to be about 0.3%, give or take, across the entire population. But that skyrockets after age 60/65. Though it's lower than that for school kids and the working age population -- for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.
A tinfoil hat theory I've had for a while is that China did cook this bug up, but it wasn't meant to get loose -- it was to cull their aging population and clear them out.

Like I said, very tinfoil hat territory. But let's be honest, we could all easily see the CCP doing this.

Best theory I heard back in the before times was that this was an attempt to come up with an AIDS vaccine or treatment (not a doctor) that went awry.  Hence the international funding and involvement in the facility -- the AIDS epidemic is a million times worse and something the whole world is concerned about.  It also could explain why some places were successful in treating it with said drugs.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Arkansan on January 12, 2021, 12:50:16 PM
No, it's considerably higher than that among the high risk populations. The overall infection fatality rate seems to be about 0.3%, give or take, across the entire population. But that skyrockets after age 60/65. Though it's lower than that for school kids and the working age population -- for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.
A tinfoil hat theory I've had for a while is that China did cook this bug up, but it wasn't meant to get loose -- it was to cull their aging population and clear them out.

Like I said, very tinfoil hat territory. But let's be honest, we could all easily see the CCP doing this.

Best theory I heard back in the before times was that this was an attempt to come up with an AIDS vaccine or treatment (not a doctor) that went awry.  Hence the international funding and involvement in the facility -- the AIDS epidemic is a million times worse and something the whole world is concerned about.  It also could explain why some places were successful in treating it with said drugs.

I recall hearing that theory. The idea was that someone botched containment or safety procedures and several people were exposed at once, leading to the outbreak.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on January 12, 2021, 01:10:57 PM
No, it's considerably higher than that among the high risk populations. The overall infection fatality rate seems to be about 0.3%, give or take, across the entire population. But that skyrockets after age 60/65. Though it's lower than that for school kids and the working age population -- for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.
A tinfoil hat theory I've had for a while is that China did cook this bug up, but it wasn't meant to get loose -- it was to cull their aging population and clear them out.

Like I said, very tinfoil hat territory. But let's be honest, we could all easily see the CCP doing this.

Best theory I heard back in the before times was that this was an attempt to come up with an AIDS vaccine or treatment (not a doctor) that went awry.  Hence the international funding and involvement in the facility -- the AIDS epidemic is a million times worse and something the whole world is concerned about.  It also could explain why some places were successful in treating it with said drugs.

I recall hearing that theory. The idea was that someone botched containment or safety procedures and several people were exposed at once, leading to the outbreak.

Yup.  While it is fun to engage in conspiracy theories about a massive Maoist plot (especially given their own strategic literature on the topic) 999 out of 1000 times its just plain old human incompetence.  The CCP is just willing to kill millions of people to keep their economy going whereas the baizuo claim that no one should die.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2021, 01:33:29 PM
Can't argue with any of that. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained through stupidity. And I've heard tales that ChiCom lab protocols are... um... less than robust. Lots of cargo-cult behavior based on what they observe in Western labs.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on January 12, 2021, 02:53:26 PM
Can't argue with any of that. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained through stupidity. And I've heard tales that ChiCom lab protocols are... um... less than robust. Lots of cargo-cult behavior based on what they observe in Western labs.

My favourite theory is that the lab workers sold the bodies of their infected experiments so they could get a few more RMB.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on January 13, 2021, 12:33:12 AM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

  about 12 people.  7 fairly well, and the other 5 in passing.  7 of them are over 70.  4 are in their 20's and one is a 40+ with some pre existing health issues.  No fatalities, one hospitalization (pre existing conditions, over 70, and though the research is not solid yet, a susceptible blood type).   
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: spon on January 13, 2021, 05:33:57 AM
Can't argue with any of that. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained through stupidity. And I've heard tales that ChiCom lab protocols are... um... less than robust. Lots of cargo-cult behavior based on what they observe in Western labs.

A friend of mine visited a nuclear facility there (he has an interesting story about the journey there involving swapping taxis in the middle of a field). He said that it was possible to see in to the core of the reactor. (For those who don't know, this is a very bad thing). He didn't do it himself and he reckoned that either the whole thing was a sort of Potempkin Village or that none of the radiation alarms were switched on and the workers there would die very painful deaths.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Daztur on January 13, 2021, 06:08:40 AM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

  about 12 people.  7 fairly well, and the other 5 in passing.  7 of them are over 70.  4 are in their 20's and one is a 40+ with some pre existing health issues.  No fatalities, one hospitalization (pre existing conditions, over 70, and though the research is not solid yet, a susceptible blood type).

Yeesh, this sort of thing makes me very happy I'm living in Korea. I'm in contact with all kinds of people through my work and ZERO of them have even come into contact with anyone with the virus, at least as far as Korea's very active contact tracing can tell. Like I said upthread the closest I've got to a link to the virus is a worker at my secretary's daughter's daycare who was working with a different batch of kids.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on January 13, 2021, 06:35:18 AM
Ignoring the crazy tinfoil hat theorizing, there's a decent case to be made that COVID-19 is the same disease that infected some miners in 2012, samples were transported to Wuhan for study, and later released in a lab accident.

https://www.independentsciencenews.org/commentaries/a-proposed-origin-for-sars-cov-2-and-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on January 13, 2021, 11:17:55 AM
Other than that, I do not know anyone in person or any friend or family member that has gotten Covid.

I personally know two people who tested positive. One didn't even have any symptoms, the other one got the sniffles for a few days. First person is 35, healthy male, second one is a 70 year old woman.

So whatever.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 13, 2021, 11:23:31 AM
A friend's family member was positive and passed away recently after being intubated.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: shuddemell on January 13, 2021, 11:28:32 AM
Can't argue with any of that. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained through stupidity. And I've heard tales that ChiCom lab protocols are... um... less than robust. Lots of cargo-cult behavior based on what they observe in Western labs.

The problem is the idea that stupidity is less dangerous than malice, but it's far worse...

"Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous."
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on January 13, 2021, 01:40:14 PM
Can't argue with any of that. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained through stupidity. And I've heard tales that ChiCom lab protocols are... um... less than robust. Lots of cargo-cult behavior based on what they observe in Western labs.

A friend of mine visited a nuclear facility there (he has an interesting story about the journey there involving swapping taxis in the middle of a field). He said that it was possible to see in to the core of the reactor. (For those who don't know, this is a very bad thing). He didn't do it himself and he reckoned that either the whole thing was a sort of Potempkin Village or that none of the radiation alarms were switched on and the workers there would die very painful deaths.

I can't speak to their science or energy sectors, but personal experience with the manufacturing sector leaves me unsurprised by these accounts.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zirunel on January 14, 2021, 06:49:10 AM
for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.

What numbers are you using for flu fatality rates in the under-49 age group?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on January 14, 2021, 08:12:56 AM
for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.

What numbers are you using for flu fatality rates in the under-49 age group?
CDC data:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (scenario 5 is the best guess)
You can dig into the cited papers for more specific details. There was a good graph on twitter by a relevant expert showing the two fatalities rates vs. age, and the lines intersected at age 49 (which was especially evident on the log scale version of the graph), though I can't seem to quickly find it again.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: TNMalt on January 14, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Can't argue with any of that. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained through stupidity. And I've heard tales that ChiCom lab protocols are... um... less than robust. Lots of cargo-cult behavior based on what they observe in Western labs.

A friend of mine visited a nuclear facility there (he has an interesting story about the journey there involving swapping taxis in the middle of a field). He said that it was possible to see in to the core of the reactor. (For those who don't know, this is a very bad thing). He didn't do it himself and he reckoned that either the whole thing was a sort of Potempkin Village or that none of the radiation alarms were switched on and the workers there would die very painful deaths.

For the nulcear power sector, depends on plant designs. If based on old Soviet designs, then the safety measures are people, no automatic safety measures to prevent a meltdown. Three Mile Island was a case of people turning off the safety measures that would have prevented it.

I can't speak to their science or energy sectors, but personal experience with the manufacturing sector leaves me unsurprised by these accounts.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 14, 2021, 11:10:00 AM
Someone passed this along to me.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/18/antibody-dependent-enhancement

Dr. Lowe is not exactly a tinfoil hat nutter, and the prospect of this worries me on several levels.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 14, 2021, 11:14:08 AM
Quote
At this point, I would say that the main worry for any ADE effects would be if the coronavirus mutates to the point that the antibodies generated by the current vaccines become non-neutralizing. And honestly, I don’t see that happening (it certainly doesn’t seem to have happened yet).

I hope so too.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zirunel on January 14, 2021, 12:35:46 PM
for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.

What numbers are you using for flu fatality rates in the under-49 age group?
CDC data:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (scenario 5 is the best guess)
You can dig into the cited papers for more specific details. There was a good graph on twitter by a relevant expert showing the two fatalities rates vs. age, and the lines intersected at age 49 (which was especially evident on the log scale version of the graph), though I can't seem to quickly find it again.

Thanks. The two CDC pages certainly don't make it easy to compare. They break it down into  different age cohorts for flu than for Covid. Plus one is reported as an infection fatality ratio and the other as numbers per 100,000, so you have to do some math to get comparable figures. But near as I can tell, the Covid mortality rate for 20-49 year olds is ten times higher than the flu mortality rate for 18-49 year olds (0.0002 vs. 0.000019 respectively).

EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: rawma on January 14, 2021, 07:19:46 PM
EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!

Influenza reportedly killed 675,000 Americans in 1918. We're in a similar situation now with 383,000+ dead of Covid-19.

This almost certainly misses indirect deaths, where people can't get hospital care for an unrelated serious health issue because hospitals are too full, or people who hesitate to seek medical care where capacity exists that would save them because they're afraid of being exposed. White room comparison the two diseases is false comfort, even for people who don't care about anyone older than 50.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zirunel on January 14, 2021, 08:33:57 PM
EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!

Influenza reportedly killed 675,000 Americans in 1918. We're in a similar situation now with 383,000+ dead of Covid-19.

This almost certainly misses indirect deaths, where people can't get hospital care for an unrelated serious health issue because hospitals are too full, or people who hesitate to seek medical care where capacity exists that would save them because they're afraid of being exposed. White room comparison the two diseases is false comfort, even for people who don't care about anyone older than 50.

Yeah, I do think you can make the case that Covid is a deal because of hospitalizations rather than mortality, and we can get to that in time but first things first.  Let's not muddy the waters here. The American influenza of 1918 was in a league of its own, but we are not being asked to compare Covid to  1918, we are being told that Covid is a piffle compared to the seasonal flu of 2019-2020 (a flu season characterized as atypically severe specifically for the 18-49 age cohort).

But is it?  Pat's own citations suggest no, Covid mortality is an order of magnitude more severe than the 2019-2020 flu season for that very cohort. Can we address that first?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on January 14, 2021, 09:08:19 PM
CDC data:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (scenario 5 is the best guess)
You can dig into the cited papers for more specific details. There was a good graph on twitter by a relevant expert showing the two fatalities rates vs. age, and the lines intersected at age 49 (which was especially evident on the log scale version of the graph), though I can't seem to quickly find it again.

Thanks. The two CDC pages certainly don't make it easy to compare. They break it down into  different age cohorts for flu than for Covid. Plus one is reported as an infection fatality ratio and the other as numbers per 100,000, so you have to do some math to get comparable figures. But near as I can tell, the Covid mortality rate for 20-49 year olds is ten times higher than the flu mortality rate for 18-49 year olds (0.0002 vs. 0.000019 respectively).

EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!

Without any rate calculation, from the CDC numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

2019-2020 Flu Season, ages 18-49 -> 2,669 deaths

2020 Covid-19 pandemic, ages 25-44 -> 13,090 deaths

That's about five times as many deaths, but just to get there, we have to add in that there is a smaller age range for covid-19. The covid-19 numbers should be roughly 1.5x higher, or about 7.5x as high as the flu.

However, I think there is good reason to think that last year's flu season, people were far less careful about being infected, and so there were more people infected with the flu than with covid-19. I knew a lot more people who got the flu last year than who got covid-19 this year. However much the infection rate is greater for the flu, that indicates that covid-19 is that much deadlier if it is caught.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on January 14, 2021, 09:28:26 PM
Did any of you miss what the Dems are saying? Don't worry about the COV! I mean, it's 2021 ~ Orange-man Gone ~ Time to RE-OPEN! FUCK THE SCIENCE! ITS RAY-CIS'd ANYWAY!
https://twitter.com/cbschicago/status/1349778522240389124
One of many instances where your dear leaders now say: To Protect the Public, we need the Public Outside! Out~and~about NAO SHEEPLE!!!!
DO
AS WE
COM
MAND
!
(the whiplash effect will hurt ~ but c'mon! do it! DO IT! I WANNA SEE! DO IT NAO!!!!)

As for VAX~EENZ: https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/14/janice-hahn-la-county-supervisor-enraged-health-department-covid-19-vaccines-thrown-our/
BWHA-HAHAHAHAHAH! Is this... wait for it... BIDEN'S FAULT?!  MIGHTY JOE WHITEY BAD!
Can you just FEEL that DESPAIR???
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on January 15, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
for those under age 49, it's less lethal the seasonal flu.

What numbers are you using for flu fatality rates in the under-49 age group?
CDC data:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (scenario 5 is the best guess)
You can dig into the cited papers for more specific details. There was a good graph on twitter by a relevant expert showing the two fatalities rates vs. age, and the lines intersected at age 49 (which was especially evident on the log scale version of the graph), though I can't seem to quickly find it again.

Thanks. The two CDC pages certainly don't make it easy to compare. They break it down into  different age cohorts for flu than for Covid. Plus one is reported as an infection fatality ratio and the other as numbers per 100,000, so you have to do some math to get comparable figures. But near as I can tell, the Covid mortality rate for 20-49 year olds is ten times higher than the flu mortality rate for 18-49 year olds (0.0002 vs. 0.000019 respectively).

EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!
I get that number as well, but I'm not terribly confident without looking over the data a lot more closely. As you noted, the pages aren't terribly friendly or easy to compare.

But that conflicts with other sources, which suggests the flu has an IFR of 0.1% (the CDC's 38 million infected/22K deaths for the last season is 0.57%, i.e. within in a factor of two but not the same) and that COVID-19's is only a few times larger.
0.15‐0.20% global https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13423
0.26% US/Indiana https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-5352
0.32% Switzerland/Geneva https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30584-3/fulltext
0.01% Kenya https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.27.20162693v1
0.82% Spain https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.06.20169722v1
... and a lot more. The range is typically 0.1% to 0.5% or so in developed countries -- Africa as a whole is an anomaly (along with other countries like Japan), and Spain is a case where there was a collapse of the healthcare system (NYC and Italy are even higher).

So I suspect we're misreading the CDC data. Wish I could find those Tweets.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: EOTB on January 15, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
While everyone is sword-fighting with statistics, I wonder why the SCIENCE crowd is so quiet about the latest political decisions and just-released lockdown studies?

The lag between linking to favorable science is usually measured in nanoseconds, so the absence is noted
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on January 15, 2021, 06:33:15 PM
While everyone is sword-fighting with statistics, I wonder why the SCIENCE crowd is so quiet about the latest political decisions and just-released lockdown studies?

The lag between linking to favorable science is usually measured in nanoseconds, so the absence is noted
What else did you expect from LIARS, THIEVES,  AND MURDERERS?
Their getting their communism now, so it's all good!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on January 15, 2021, 06:41:47 PM
While everyone is sword-fighting with statistics, I wonder why the SCIENCE crowd is so quiet about the latest political decisions and just-released lockdown studies?

The lag between linking to favorable science is usually measured in nanoseconds, so the absence is noted

The scientists are waiting to get orders from the government on how to spin it.
They can't go overboard too far in one direction or the other.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on January 15, 2021, 08:34:57 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (scenario 5 is the best guess)

Thanks. The two CDC pages certainly don't make it easy to compare. They break it down into  different age cohorts for flu than for Covid. Plus one is reported as an infection fatality ratio and the other as numbers per 100,000, so you have to do some math to get comparable figures. But near as I can tell, the Covid mortality rate for 20-49 year olds is ten times higher than the flu mortality rate for 18-49 year olds (0.0002 vs. 0.000019 respectively).

EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!
I get that number as well, but I'm not terribly confident without looking over the data a lot more closely. As you noted, the pages aren't terribly friendly or easy to compare.

But that conflicts with other sources, which suggests the flu has an IFR of 0.1% (the CDC's 38 million infected/22K deaths for the last season is 0.57%, i.e. within in a factor of two but not the same) and that COVID-19's is only a few times larger.

22k deaths out of 38 million is 0.057%, not 0.57%. But that is the rate for the flu among all ages - including the very elderly. The rate for those under 50 is much lower.

The 22K deaths from the 2019-2020 flu season is parallel to the 390K total deaths from covid-19.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on January 15, 2021, 11:26:00 PM
The 22K deaths from the 2019-2020 flu season is parallel to the 390K total deaths from covid-19.

2017-2018 Flu season caused an estimated 80k deaths so it looks like 2019-2020 was a very good year for preventing deaths.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on January 15, 2021, 11:39:13 PM
EDITED TO ADD: that said, even if my math is right, I am not super confident in the flu-Covid comparisons except maybe in a broad-brush way. Flu is not reportable, so really hard to get a handle on its prevalence. Just look at the uncertainty intervals in the flu tables, they are huge!

Influenza reportedly killed 675,000 Americans in 1918. We're in a similar situation now with 383,000+ dead of Covid-19.

This almost certainly misses indirect deaths, where people can't get hospital care for an unrelated serious health issue because hospitals are too full, or people who hesitate to seek medical care where capacity exists that would save them because they're afraid of being exposed. White room comparison the two diseases is false comfort, even for people who don't care about anyone older than 50.
  US population was 103.2 million in 1918.  That is a massive proportional difference.  Add in the average life span in 1918 was a bit over 50 (far fewer elderly and sick people to die from the flu) and tossing numbers like that around sort of makes it look like you are attempting to manipulate facts. 
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on January 15, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
The 22K deaths from the 2019-2020 flu season is parallel to the 390K total deaths from covid-19.

2017-2018 Flu season caused an estimated 80k deaths so it looks like 2019-2020 was a very good year for preventing deaths.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html)

Fair enough. I think the average is somewhere in the middle. 2019-2020 was unusually low, but 2017-2018 was unusually high. Your own link says Overall, the United States experienced one of the most severe flu seasons in recent decades. Severity is based on flu activity, hospitalizations, and deaths from pneumonia or influenza, explained Nordlund. She added, "across the board, last year was definitely bad."

Here's a graph I found. (It shows the 2017-2018 deaths as 61,000 rather than 80,000 which is also what I see on the CDC website.)

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f7d7869fcc2cf4e2922009a/960x0.jpg)

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/07/how-many-americans-die-from-the-flu-each-year-infographic/?sh=5b36aee713ea
cf. also https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden-averted/2017-2018.htm

So, let's call it 40,000 average.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on January 15, 2021, 11:48:58 PM
Question, how many here have had COVID or know someone that has had it?

  about 12 people.  7 fairly well, and the other 5 in passing.  7 of them are over 70.  4 are in their 20's and one is a 40+ with some pre existing health issues.  No fatalities, one hospitalization (pre existing conditions, over 70, and though the research is not solid yet, a susceptible blood type).

Yeesh, this sort of thing makes me very happy I'm living in Korea. I'm in contact with all kinds of people through my work and ZERO of them have even come into contact with anyone with the virus, at least as far as Korea's very active contact tracing can tell. Like I said upthread the closest I've got to a link to the virus is a worker at my secretary's daughter's daycare who was working with a different batch of kids.

  In fairness I have a pretty broad net of people I know or who have crossed paths with, all across the USA.  I did leave a fellow out, who I think also got hospitalized, but is out now and headed to full recovery.  He was also 70+ and had a list of health issues.  So 13 total (and in fairness, he is still having breathing issues, so no way to be certain of how his story ends).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 16, 2021, 07:22:27 AM
Did any of you miss what the Dems are saying? Don't worry about the COV! I mean, it's 2021 ~ Orange-man Gone ~ Time to RE-OPEN! FUCK THE SCIENCE! ITS RAY-CIS'd ANYWAY!
https://twitter.com/cbschicago/status/1349778522240389124

I didn't. I'm so used to horseshit about Covid I'm not surprised.

I wonder if masks are next? Who knows what tomorrow's right-think about Covid will be...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on January 16, 2021, 07:36:07 AM
Greetings!

Golly, isn't it so wonderful that we have Biden and Kamala leading the way for America in the Covid era? Just bow down and suck Kamala's ass, and give thanks to the ever-wise and benevolent Democrats.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on January 16, 2021, 06:22:28 PM
Greetings!

Golly, isn't it so wonderful that we have Biden and Kamala leading the way for America in the Covid era? Just bow down and suck Kamala's ass, and give thanks to the ever-wise and benevolent Democrats.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

To be fair it's got to be better than the last shower of glaikit shite.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Catulle on January 16, 2021, 09:55:16 PM
Greetings!

Golly, isn't it so wonderful that we have Biden and Kamala leading the way for America in the Covid era? Just bow down and suck Kamala's ass, and give thanks to the ever-wise and benevolent Democrats.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

To be fair it's got to be better than the last shower of glaikit shite.

<3
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: consolcwby on January 16, 2021, 11:35:20 PM
Greetings!

Golly, isn't it so wonderful that we have Biden and Kamala leading the way for America in the Covid era? Just bow down and suck Kamala's ass, and give thanks to the ever-wise and benevolent Democrats.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Now, now, let's be fair! Biden and Kamala won fair and square! I know it's true! CNN, MSNBC, and PBS told me so, why would they lie??  ::)
And in other news: Leading weather reports state that once the current ice age ends, the flying pigs and their cat waifus will drown in all the fresh water! HAH! Like water has ever been anything other than salty! What a conspiracy theory! It's like what Cinderella told me yesterday: There's a sucker born every half millenia or so!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Spinachcat on April 17, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
Yo face diaper wearing retards!

Peer reviewed STANFORD study says masks are useless.  Fuck you all.


https://americanconservativemovement.com/2021/04/17/stanford-study-quietly-published-at-nih-gov-proves-face-masks-are-absolutely-worthless-against-covid/ (https://americanconservativemovement.com/2021/04/17/stanford-study-quietly-published-at-nih-gov-proves-face-masks-are-absolutely-worthless-against-covid/)

The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks. Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.

You FUCKING BASTARDS pushed masks on children to consume them with fear. Death by fire isn't enough for you.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 17, 2021, 05:23:38 PM
Shut the fuck up you worthless commie. Those children had it coming and so will you.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 18, 2021, 07:19:22 PM
Yo face diaper wearing retards!

Peer reviewed STANFORD study says masks are useless.  Fuck you all.



The box the mask comes in literally says they don't do anything to reduce the infection of viruses, so why the fuck do I need a peer-reviewed study to confirm that?

Peak clown world!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 07:57:25 PM
Yo face diaper wearing retards!

Peer reviewed STANFORD study says masks are useless.  Fuck you all.



The box the mask comes in literally says they don't do anything to reduce the infection of viruses, so why the fuck do I need a peer-reviewed study to confirm that?

Peak clown world!

Greetings!

But, Brad! We have geniuses right here on this forum that insist that THEY KNOW BETTER! EVERYONE SHOULD BE WEARING THE FUCKING MASK!

*laughing* ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 18, 2021, 11:11:50 PM
Yo face diaper wearing retards!

Peer reviewed STANFORD study says masks are useless.  Fuck you all.



The box the mask comes in literally says they don't do anything to reduce the infection of viruses, so why the fuck do I need a peer-reviewed study to confirm that?

Peak clown world!

Clutch your Honkler doll while the world continues to fail you, see if it helps.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Trinculoisdead on April 20, 2021, 11:00:25 AM
This "study"* was compiled by a clinical exercise physiologist. A glorified fitness trainer is hardly an authority on infectious disease. https://www.linkedin.com/in/baruch-vainshelboim-5591b532

*It was published online as a hypothesis, not a study. i.e. it contains no new information.

I'm not some rabid mask-clutching type, but dumb shit is still dumb shit.


Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 20, 2021, 11:43:03 AM
This "study"* was compiled by a clinical exercise physiologist. A glorified fitness trainer is hardly an authority on infectious disease. https://www.linkedin.com/in/baruch-vainshelboim-5591b532

*It was published online as a hypothesis, not a study. i.e. it contains no new information.

I'm not some rabid mask-clutching type, but dumb shit is still dumb shit.

Yeah, that's what I see. Here's the paper:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Here's how Med Hypotheses describes itself:

Quote
Medical Hypotheses was therefore launched, and still exists today, to give novel, radical new ideas and speculations in medicine open-minded consideration, opening the field to radical hypotheses which would be rejected by most conventional journals. Papers in Medical Hypotheses take a standard scientific form in terms of style, structure and referencing. The journal therefore constitutes a bridge between cutting-edge theory and the mainstream of medical and scientific communication, which ideas must eventually enter if they are to be critiqued and tested against observations.
Source: https://www.journals.elsevier.com/medical-hypotheses

That is how the journal describes itself. It is *not* a standard peer-reviewed journal, and it itself claims that ideas published in it must go to mainstream peer-reviewed journals to be tested against observations.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 20, 2021, 12:02:45 PM
This "study"* was compiled by a clinical exercise physiologist. A glorified fitness trainer is hardly an authority on infectious disease. https://www.linkedin.com/in/baruch-vainshelboim-5591b532

*It was published online as a hypothesis, not a study. i.e. it contains no new information.

I'm not some rabid mask-clutching type, but dumb shit is still dumb shit.

I'd trust a fucking clinical exercise physiologist over any of these "doctors" running around with absolutely zero pragmatic experience. All those "experts" rarely, if ever, have practiced medicine, and most have never been outside of a fucking lab. But you know that, don't you? Once again, attack the messenger, don't address the actual information contained within because you don't like the conclusion. Modern day science!

EDIT: Did you even bother to read this dude's publications?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Vainshelboim%20B%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=33303303

Seems like a fucking expert on the topic of pulmonary health if I've ever seen one.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 20, 2021, 12:08:23 PM
Only the authority that agrees with me is good, all the other authority is bad. Clown world! Sad.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 20, 2021, 12:45:29 PM
This "study"* was compiled by a clinical exercise physiologist. A glorified fitness trainer is hardly an authority on infectious disease. https://www.linkedin.com/in/baruch-vainshelboim-5591b532

*It was published online as a hypothesis, not a study. i.e. it contains no new information.

I'm not some rabid mask-clutching type, but dumb shit is still dumb shit.
He's got a Ph.D. from Stanford and is an active researcher. He's not a medical doctor, but he has advanced knowledge in a relevant field. This is more about statistics and physiology than clinical judgments, anyway.

The "hypothesis" seems to a convention of the journal. It's not some magical thing that's different from a study. Though you're correct it doesn't contain much in the way of new information. It's effectively a meta-study, a survey and summary of the relevant literature, and doesn't really transform the information in new ways. As a result, it's mostly useful as a summary and a source of references.

It's also worth noting that it's hosted on the National Institute of Health's website, but that's not an endorsement by the government. The National Library of Medicine is just a public service, providing access to medical resources. JHKim is correct that the journal appears to be a publication aimed at ideas a bit outside the mainstream, but while being hosted by the NIH isn't an endorsement, it does suggest it's a legitimate journal. It's for emerging or less popular ideas, not nutty conspiracy theories.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 20, 2021, 02:19:56 PM
He's got a Ph.D. from Stanford and is an active researcher. He's not a medical doctor, but he has advanced knowledge in a relevant field. This is more about statistics and physiology than clinical judgments, anyway.

The "hypothesis" seems to a convention of the journal. It's not some magical thing that's different from a study. Though you're correct it doesn't contain much in the way of new information. It's effectively a meta-study, a survey and summary of the relevant literature, and doesn't really transform the information in new ways. As a result, it's mostly useful as a summary and a source of references.

It's also worth noting that it's hosted on the National Institute of Health's website, but that's not an endorsement by the government. The National Library of Medicine is just a public service, providing access to medical resources. JHKim is correct that the journal appears to be a publication aimed at ideas a bit outside the mainstream, but while being hosted by the NIH isn't an endorsement, it does suggest it's a legitimate journal. It's for emerging or less popular ideas, not nutty conspiracy theories.

I agree it's not a nutty conspiracy theory. Still, it's a single author non-peer-reviewed paper with no new data. The author has a PhD and works at Stanford, but he doesn't seem to have any experience or done research in infectious disease.

I don't see any reason to take this one author over any other expert, especially people with specific experience and research in respiratory diseases. There are differences of opinion among those, but most of them do recommend masks based on the studies. They don't make as much difference as many laypeople believe, but it's not crazy to believe there is some benefit - though there is also room for doubt.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 20, 2021, 02:29:25 PM
He's got a Ph.D. from Stanford and is an active researcher. He's not a medical doctor, but he has advanced knowledge in a relevant field. This is more about statistics and physiology than clinical judgments, anyway.

The "hypothesis" seems to a convention of the journal. It's not some magical thing that's different from a study. Though you're correct it doesn't contain much in the way of new information. It's effectively a meta-study, a survey and summary of the relevant literature, and doesn't really transform the information in new ways. As a result, it's mostly useful as a summary and a source of references.

It's also worth noting that it's hosted on the National Institute of Health's website, but that's not an endorsement by the government. The National Library of Medicine is just a public service, providing access to medical resources. JHKim is correct that the journal appears to be a publication aimed at ideas a bit outside the mainstream, but while being hosted by the NIH isn't an endorsement, it does suggest it's a legitimate journal. It's for emerging or less popular ideas, not nutty conspiracy theories.

I agree it's not a nutty conspiracy theory. Still, it's a single author non-peer-reviewed paper with no new data. The author has a PhD and works at Stanford, but he doesn't seem to have any experience or done research in infectious disease.

I don't see any reason to take this one author over any other expert, especially people with specific experience and research in respiratory diseases. There are differences of opinion among those, but most of them do recommend masks based on the studies. They don't make as much difference as many laypeople believe, but it's not crazy to believe there is some benefit - though there is also room for doubt.
I don't see any significant difference in what I said, although the bulk of the evidence outside this particular article doesn't support masks.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2021, 03:58:37 PM
Will the upcoming riots in Minneapolis feature masks?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 20, 2021, 04:08:52 PM
Will the upcoming riots in Minneapolis feature masks?

Rioters are immune from kung-flu, and also spreading it.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 20, 2021, 04:10:00 PM
Will the upcoming riots in Minneapolis feature masks?

Seem popular among the cops.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 20, 2021, 05:57:38 PM
Will the upcoming riots in Minneapolis feature masks?

Seem popular among the cops.
Bandits, Antifa and now cops have figured out the best way to not get in trouble -- wear a mask!

Shame those wacky insurrectionists never figured that out.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 20, 2021, 06:21:20 PM
Will the upcoming riots in Minneapolis feature masks?

Seem popular among the cops.
Bandits, Antifa and now cops have figured out the best way to not get in trouble -- wear a mask!

Shame those wacky insurrectionists never figured that out.

Did they never watch any goddamn westerns
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Trinculoisdead on April 21, 2021, 09:52:33 AM
This "study"* was compiled by a clinical exercise physiologist. A glorified fitness trainer is hardly an authority on infectious disease. https://www.linkedin.com/in/baruch-vainshelboim-5591b532

*It was published online as a hypothesis, not a study. i.e. it contains no new information.

I'm not some rabid mask-clutching type, but dumb shit is still dumb shit.

I'd trust a fucking clinical exercise physiologist over any of these "doctors" running around with absolutely zero pragmatic experience. All those "experts" rarely, if ever, have practiced medicine, and most have never been outside of a fucking lab. But you know that, don't you? Once again, attack the messenger, don't address the actual information contained within because you don't like the conclusion. Modern day science!

EDIT: Did you even bother to read this dude's publications?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Vainshelboim%20B%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=33303303

Seems like a fucking expert on the topic of pulmonary health if I've ever seen one.

I'm fine with the conclusion! I laugh at those who act as though masks are a holy garment. I also don't like inaccurate or false claims though, and I was disappointed when this "peer-reviewed Stanford study" turned out to be a typo-ridden piece authored by a guy whose other papers are all about pulmonary functions and health. It is not peer-reviewed, and does not come from Stanford.

I mean we can't just accept things that we agree with without looking past the headline.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 21, 2021, 10:10:50 AM
I'm fine with the conclusion! I laugh at those who act as though masks are a holy garment. I also don't like inaccurate or false claims though, and I was disappointed when this "peer-reviewed Stanford study" turned out to be a typo-ridden piece authored by a guy whose other papers are all about pulmonary functions and health. It is not peer-reviewed, and does not come from Stanford.

I mean we can't just accept things that we agree with without looking past the headline.

Fair enough. What about this study from last year then?

https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2020/06/10/ppe-burden/

Notice how they had to add the caveat of RESPIRATORS, even though "N95 FFR" are literally just facemasks. The level of doublespeak and propaganda is astounding.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Safety-Equipment-Respirator-Masks/N95/N-5yc1vZc25kZ1z195hh?storeSelection=

So basically, N95 masks, which might actually help with the transmission of infection diseases, are detrimental to your health when worn for long periods of time, but the cheap facemasks they tell you to wear when you go to Walmart might be "okay" for respiratory health but don't actually help cut down on the spread of disease. Makes 100% sense to me!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Trinculoisdead on April 21, 2021, 10:20:51 AM
I imagine that caveat was added after the study was linked to so often.

Yeah I get what it's saying: much of the same stuff from that guy's paper about the adverse affects of prolonged mask-wearing. That was the part of the paper that I agreed with. Of course people aren't meant to wear masks over their mouths and noses. The ill-affects are still not as bad for the elderly and middle-aged obese as Covid is, so that's a trade-off that people make.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 21, 2021, 10:26:58 AM
Or all these.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0240287
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Some peer-reviewed, some are just surveys of the evidence. All come from respected sources. Some studies show the possibility of a mild to moderate effect, but most, and the better ones, do not. Conclusions tends to be weak. There are many poor studies. Negative effects from wearing masks are possible.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 21, 2021, 11:20:42 AM
If Texas and Florida have proven anything it's that going outside and getting some sun is far more effective than vaccines or masks.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 21, 2021, 05:15:00 PM
If Texas and Florida have proven anything it's that going outside and getting some sun is far more effective than vaccines or masks.
I'm not going to speak for Texas, but Florida has mask use and vaccines alongside getting sun.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Larsdangly on April 22, 2021, 12:57:25 PM
The anti-maskers posting here are mostly driven by two intellectual mistakes:

1) confirmation bias, where they lean heavily on studies that were too small to resolve population-wide effects on the order of 10's of %, or were so uncontrolled that it is hard to know whether or what masks were really being worn. Confirmation bias has become a way of life in our politically fractured country, but it is still the mark of a dip shit whose brain doesn't work.

2) failure to recognize that population-scale mitigation of infectious disease is not a one-solution thing; it is more like engineering commercial air travel to be less dangerous - effective solutions come from layering of multiple approaches, each of which only reduces overall negative outcomes by some marginal amount. That doesn't mean each of them is pointless. It means the opposite of that: the only rational approach is to do all of the marginally helpful things you can.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 22, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/WyQ4Ggk/Ezhb-Kj-OX0-AA2-J6-U-format-jpg-name-medium.jpg)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Larsdangly on April 22, 2021, 04:24:59 PM
Another issue worth mentioning is that, while the usefulness of most cheap masks for preventing the wearer from contracting airborne viral illnesses is probably modest to nil, the evidence is clear that they are more useful at preventing the wearer from spreading disease to others. So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should. It's a little like imagining that you could only wear a car seatbelt if someone else puts it on you (kinky...?).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on April 22, 2021, 04:50:11 PM
The anti-maskers posting here are mostly driven by two intellectual mistakes:

1) confirmation bias, where they lean heavily on studies that were too small to resolve population-wide effects on the order of 10's of %, or were so uncontrolled that it is hard to know whether or what masks were really being worn. Confirmation bias has become a way of life in our politically fractured country, but it is still the mark of a dip shit whose brain doesn't work.

2) failure to recognize that population-scale mitigation of infectious disease is not a one-solution thing; it is more like engineering commercial air travel to be less dangerous - effective solutions come from layering of multiple approaches, each of which only reduces overall negative outcomes by some marginal amount. That doesn't mean each of them is pointless. It means the opposite of that: the only rational approach is to do all of the marginally helpful things you can.

Humans falling for confirmation bias?  Shirley you mean just the people that believe the things that I dont believe.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
The anti-maskers posting here are mostly driven by two intellectual mistakes:

1) confirmation bias, where they lean heavily on studies that were too small to resolve population-wide effects on the order of 10's of %, or were so uncontrolled that it is hard to know whether or what masks were really being worn. Confirmation bias has become a way of life in our politically fractured country, but it is still the mark of a dip shit whose brain doesn't work.

2) failure to recognize that population-scale mitigation of infectious disease is not a one-solution thing; it is more like engineering commercial air travel to be less dangerous - effective solutions come from layering of multiple approaches, each of which only reduces overall negative outcomes by some marginal amount. That doesn't mean each of them is pointless. It means the opposite of that: the only rational approach is to do all of the marginally helpful things you can.

The evidence shows it's contracted mostly in closed spaces, your risk in the open air nears zero.

Speaking of Commercial Flight, have the airplanes been retrofitted with EPA filters capable of filtering out viruses?

The issue you have is with people speking against stuff being mandatory and confusing that with science denial.

Maybe due to your own confirmation bias that claims all those who speak against things your support must be science deniers?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 22, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Speaking of Commercial Flight, have the airplanes been retrofitted with EPA filters capable of filtering out viruses?
Doesn't seem necessary, the fairly thorough air filtration they use seems to work. Airlines spread covid, but only the sense that sick people get on, get off, and then spread it to people at their destination. There don't seem to have been any mass infections on an airplane since almost the start of the pandemic.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2021, 05:43:54 PM
Speaking of Commercial Flight, have the airplanes been retrofitted with EPA filters capable of filtering out viruses?
Doesn't seem necessary, the fairly thorough air filtration they use seems to work. Airlines spread covid, but only the sense that sick people get on, get off, and then spread it to people at their destination. There don't seem to have been any mass infections on an airplane since almost the start of the pandemic.

Mainly because the flights were near zero, and because you can't know if a bunch of people comming from the same place got it before or during flight.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 22, 2021, 05:47:35 PM
Speaking of Commercial Flight, have the airplanes been retrofitted with EPA filters capable of filtering out viruses?
Doesn't seem necessary, the fairly thorough air filtration they use seems to work. Airlines spread covid, but only the sense that sick people get on, get off, and then spread it to people at their destination. There don't seem to have been any mass infections on an airplane since almost the start of the pandemic.

Mainly because the flights were near zero, and because you can't know if a bunch of people comming from the same place got it before or during flight.
Nah, airlines actually make contact tracing very easy. You know exactly who, when, where, and who they were in contact with. It would be very easy to figure out if it happened, but airlines simply don't seem to be a place where the disease spreads. If someone sick flies somewhere, they might spread it there, but not to anyone else on the plane.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2021, 06:28:00 PM
Speaking of Commercial Flight, have the airplanes been retrofitted with EPA filters capable of filtering out viruses?
Doesn't seem necessary, the fairly thorough air filtration they use seems to work. Airlines spread covid, but only the sense that sick people get on, get off, and then spread it to people at their destination. There don't seem to have been any mass infections on an airplane since almost the start of the pandemic.

Mainly because the flights were near zero, and because you can't know if a bunch of people comming from the same place got it before or during flight.
Nah, airlines actually make contact tracing very easy. You know exactly who, when, where, and who they were in contact with. It would be very easy to figure out if it happened, but airlines simply don't seem to be a place where the disease spreads. If someone sick flies somewhere, they might spread it there, but not to anyone else on the plane.

Weird you can spend hours in a closed space, breathing the same recirculated air with not optimal face masks and have zero transmission...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 22, 2021, 06:37:23 PM
Speaking of Commercial Flight, have the airplanes been retrofitted with EPA filters capable of filtering out viruses?
Doesn't seem necessary, the fairly thorough air filtration they use seems to work. Airlines spread covid, but only the sense that sick people get on, get off, and then spread it to people at their destination. There don't seem to have been any mass infections on an airplane since almost the start of the pandemic.

Mainly because the flights were near zero, and because you can't know if a bunch of people comming from the same place got it before or during flight.
Nah, airlines actually make contact tracing very easy. You know exactly who, when, where, and who they were in contact with. It would be very easy to figure out if it happened, but airlines simply don't seem to be a place where the disease spreads. If someone sick flies somewhere, they might spread it there, but not to anyone else on the plane.

Weird you can spend hours in a closed space, breathing the same recirculated air with not optimal face masks and have zero transmission...

Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 22, 2021, 07:58:31 PM

Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
And each person effectively gets their own ventilation system, because each seat has its own airflow directed at them. That's why it really stands out to me -- like GeekyBugle, my initial reaction was that airlines would be hotbeds of disease. But the evidence was really clear, and once you think about it a little further, it does make sense.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2021, 09:31:52 PM

Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
And each person effectively gets their own ventilation system, because each seat has its own airflow directed at them. That's why it really stands out to me -- like GeekyBugle, my initial reaction was that airlines would be hotbeds of disease. But the evidence was really clear, and once you think about it a little further, it does make sense.

So, assuming you're both correct...

What's the pretext to perpetuate the use of masks outside? Are you telling me I'm at more risk at a park than on an airplane?

And it begs the question, what's the reason then for the ban on smoking on airplanes? Those wornderful filters can filter viruses but not the smoke of cigarretes?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 22, 2021, 09:35:56 PM
Another issue worth mentioning is that, while the usefulness of most cheap masks for preventing the wearer from contracting airborne viral illnesses is probably modest to nil, the evidence is clear that they are more useful at preventing the wearer from spreading disease to others. So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should. It's a little like imagining that you could only wear a car seatbelt if someone else puts it on you (kinky...?).
Or maybe if you’re that worried about it you should stay the fuck home. What a novel concept!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 23, 2021, 10:18:47 AM
Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
And each person effectively gets their own ventilation system, because each seat has its own airflow directed at them. That's why it really stands out to me -- like GeekyBugle, my initial reaction was that airlines would be hotbeds of disease. But the evidence was really clear, and once you think about it a little further, it does make sense.

So, assuming you're both correct...

What's the pretext to perpetuate the use of masks outside? Are you telling me I'm at more risk at a park than on an airplane?

And it begs the question, what's the reason then for the ban on smoking on airplanes? Those wornderful filters can filter viruses but not the smoke of cigarretes?

Even among those who recommend masks, many don't think that wearing a mask outside is useful.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/well/live/covid-masks-outdoors.html

I don't know much about the filtering of cigarette smoke - but there are many substances that are smaller than aerosolized droplets, like odors. For example, an N95 mask will protect against many particulates - that's why it's recommended when dealing with wood smoke. But you can still smell the smoke through the mask - i.e. the odor parts of the smoke get through, but most particulates do not.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 23, 2021, 10:26:01 AM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 11:17:58 AM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 23, 2021, 11:23:25 AM
It's also an apparent contradiction not a real contradiction. Covid-19 is spread by aerosolization, which relies on the gradual increase in the concentration levels in an enclosed area. Breathing is an active process, with about 20 exhalations per minute, and thus can be affected by impeded airflow, and result in high but temporary concentrations, neither of which is primarily about particle size. I'm not making any statement on the validity of the claim, just that the argument against it isn't good.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 23, 2021, 11:26:41 AM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 11:42:04 AM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 23, 2021, 11:56:27 AM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 11:59:48 AM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

never provide evidence. not even shitposting (I mean I am shitposting but still). Stop wasting time.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 23, 2021, 12:54:49 PM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

never provide evidence. not even shitposting (I mean I am shitposting but still). Stop wasting time.
What evidence do you offer to support that the claim that you're shitposting?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 12:59:37 PM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

never provide evidence. not even shitposting (I mean I am shitposting but still). Stop wasting time.
What evidence do you offer to support that the claim that you're shitposting?

goddammit we talked about this behavior
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 01:28:40 PM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

When have I spoken about that? Also he who makes the claim has the burden of proof. But it's too much to ask of a leftie to stick to logic.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 23, 2021, 01:40:03 PM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

When have I spoken about that? Also he who makes the claim has the burden of proof. But it's too much to ask of a leftie to stick to logic.
Did you somehow believe that I started this line in response to you? If so, that's your mistake. I was making a general response to the thread, not commenting on your particular brand of ignorance. And considering how far gone you are into the crazy-land side of right-wing, being called a leftie by you is hardly an insult.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 02:19:55 PM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

When have I spoken about that? Also he who makes the claim has the burden of proof. But it's too much to ask of a leftie to stick to logic.

yeah what's your goalposts so we know when you move em
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 08:49:04 PM
I love hearing the idiots say you'll get hypoxia from wearing a mask because it keeps oxygen out and holds carbon dioxide in... Yet both of these molecules are vastly smaller than the COVID-19 virus that these same morons insist pass through the mask with ease. It takes some real Tucker Carlson-level dumb to not see the contradictions in these stances.

Oh, and here is a source if you like. https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths (https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/infectious-disease-physician-breaks-down-coronavirus-mask-myths)

Nice strawman you've got there (unless you can point to someone here that has that position?), you sure you can beat it to death by yourself?
Remember the guy that claimed to have a Stanford study? Read his piece on the harmfulness of masks and you'll see an example of the hypoxia nonsense.

Totally, I'm gonna go luck for it instead of you providing evidence of your claims.
You really are a lazy piece of shit with a short memory aren't you? It's not like we haven't been talking about the study in question for the last two pages of this thread, starting with post #116, but you need to be spoon-fed, don't ya?

When have I spoken about that? Also he who makes the claim has the burden of proof. But it's too much to ask of a leftie to stick to logic.
Did you somehow believe that I started this line in response to you? If so, that's your mistake. I was making a general response to the thread, not commenting on your particular brand of ignorance. And considering how far gone you are into the crazy-land side of right-wing, being called a leftie by you is hardly an insult.

Yeah you just were generalizing against anyone arguing against you because that's how you roll.

Calling you a leftie isn't an insult nor was it intended as one, is an accurate descriptor.

On the other hand you know jack shit about my political leanings, but are happy to assume.

Think the vaccines were rushed and there might be some sideeffects we're not aware off? Crazy right wing anti-vaxer!

Think the lockdown is causing more harm than good? Crazy right wing antiscience!

Think there were other measures that could have been taken? Crazy loony right wing wants to kill granma!

And yet, even the ONU/OMS said the lockdowns were being used too easily and they would cause lots of deaths due to other causes, like poverty.

But since you can't see those, it won't be you, and the party says otherwise you'll follow lockstep happilly goose stteping their commands.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 08:56:43 PM
Yeah you an independent thinker whose conclusions all wind up at the same spot as all the other local independent thinkers.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 23, 2021, 10:06:52 PM

Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
And each person effectively gets their own ventilation system, because each seat has its own airflow directed at them. That's why it really stands out to me -- like GeekyBugle, my initial reaction was that airlines would be hotbeds of disease. But the evidence was really clear, and once you think about it a little further, it does make sense.

So, assuming you're both correct...

What's the pretext to perpetuate the use of masks outside? Are you telling me I'm at more risk at a park than on an airplane?

And it begs the question, what's the reason then for the ban on smoking on airplanes? Those wornderful filters can filter viruses but not the smoke of cigarretes?

I think the outside mask mandate is mostly silly. I think they went with it because it was easier to do a blanket ban than it was to mandate "if you're in a crowd outside you need a mask."

As for cigarettes...our society is trying to ban them everywhere they can ban them without actually banning their use entirely. So if they can ban them in an indoor setting of any kind, even if it's a safe setting, they will.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 23, 2021, 10:38:27 PM

Yeah you just were generalizing against anyone arguing against you because that's how you roll.

Calling you a leftie isn't an insult nor was it intended as one, is an accurate descriptor.

On the other hand you know jack shit about my political leanings, but are happy to assume.

Think the vaccines were rushed and there might be some sideeffects we're not aware off? Crazy right wing anti-vaxer!

Think the lockdown is causing more harm than good? Crazy right wing antiscience!

Think there were other measures that could have been taken? Crazy loony right wing wants to kill granma!

And yet, even the ONU/OMS said the lockdowns were being used too easily and they would cause lots of deaths due to other causes, like poverty.

But since you can't see those, it won't be you, and the party says otherwise you'll follow lockstep happilly goose stteping their commands.
You are really showing that you don't know shit about my beliefs either and are full of assumptions. I've never said that the vaccines are going to be flawless, nor do I think the lockdowns are without issues. However, I do feel that way too many here are all too eager to assume that both the vaccines and lockdowns are totally without merit.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on April 24, 2021, 12:46:36 AM
Yeah you an independent thinker whose conclusions all wind up at the same spot as all the other local independent thinkers.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/07/de/f707de70a493f63af2d035744a614c8a.jpg)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 24, 2021, 01:04:29 AM

Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
And each person effectively gets their own ventilation system, because each seat has its own airflow directed at them. That's why it really stands out to me -- like GeekyBugle, my initial reaction was that airlines would be hotbeds of disease. But the evidence was really clear, and once you think about it a little further, it does make sense.

So, assuming you're both correct...

What's the pretext to perpetuate the use of masks outside? Are you telling me I'm at more risk at a park than on an airplane?

And it begs the question, what's the reason then for the ban on smoking on airplanes? Those wornderful filters can filter viruses but not the smoke of cigarretes?

I think the outside mask mandate is mostly silly. I think they went with it because it was easier to do a blanket ban than it was to mandate "if you're in a crowd outside you need a mask."

As for cigarettes...our society is trying to ban them everywhere they can ban them without actually banning their use entirely. So if they can ban them in an indoor setting of any kind, even if it's a safe setting, they will.

As an ex smoker, and you're happy that your government (and mine to a lesser extent) is trying to ban smoking? When has prohibition worked? And furthermore, why does the government have the right to tell you what you can do with your body?

Why can't a bar/restaurant/etc choose to allow indoor smoking? Put a sign and let non-smokers go somewhere else? That's the liberal way, the other is the totalitarian way.

But I see BeijingBiden already wants to prohibit the consumption of red meat... Why aren't all the gringos protesting against this?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 24, 2021, 01:07:54 AM

Yeah you just were generalizing against anyone arguing against you because that's how you roll.

Calling you a leftie isn't an insult nor was it intended as one, is an accurate descriptor.

On the other hand you know jack shit about my political leanings, but are happy to assume.

Think the vaccines were rushed and there might be some sideeffects we're not aware off? Crazy right wing anti-vaxer!

Think the lockdown is causing more harm than good? Crazy right wing antiscience!

Think there were other measures that could have been taken? Crazy loony right wing wants to kill granma!

And yet, even the ONU/OMS said the lockdowns were being used too easily and they would cause lots of deaths due to other causes, like poverty.

But since you can't see those, it won't be you, and the party says otherwise you'll follow lockstep happilly goose stteping their commands.
You are really showing that you don't know shit about my beliefs either and are full of assumptions. I've never said that the vaccines are going to be flawless, nor do I think the lockdowns are without issues. However, I do feel that way too many here are all too eager to assume that both the vaccines and lockdowns are totally without merit.

Or... More likelly, you assume any and all criticism as saying they lack any merit. And then proceed to channel your inner Greta Thunberg.


(https://media.giphy.com/media/U1aN4HTfJ2SmgB2BBK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on April 24, 2021, 01:25:00 AM
And then proceed to channel your inner Greta Thunberg.

Dont we all have a little autistic scandinavian girl in each of us.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 24, 2021, 09:21:30 AM

Yeah you just were generalizing against anyone arguing against you because that's how you roll.

Calling you a leftie isn't an insult nor was it intended as one, is an accurate descriptor.

On the other hand you know jack shit about my political leanings, but are happy to assume.

Think the vaccines were rushed and there might be some sideeffects we're not aware off? Crazy right wing anti-vaxer!

Think the lockdown is causing more harm than good? Crazy right wing antiscience!

Think there were other measures that could have been taken? Crazy loony right wing wants to kill granma!

And yet, even the ONU/OMS said the lockdowns were being used too easily and they would cause lots of deaths due to other causes, like poverty.

But since you can't see those, it won't be you, and the party says otherwise you'll follow lockstep happilly goose stteping their commands.
You are really showing that you don't know shit about my beliefs either and are full of assumptions. I've never said that the vaccines are going to be flawless, nor do I think the lockdowns are without issues. However, I do feel that way too many here are all too eager to assume that both the vaccines and lockdowns are totally without merit.

Or... More likelly, you assume any and all criticism as saying they lack any merit. And then proceed to channel your inner Greta Thunberg.


(https://media.giphy.com/media/U1aN4HTfJ2SmgB2BBK/giphy.gif)
You're projecting again. You screech far more loudly and more frequently than many here.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 24, 2021, 07:41:22 PM

Air flows into the cabin vertically — it enters from overhead vents and is sent downward in a circular motion, exiting at floor level. Once air leaves the cabin, about half is dumped outside, and the rest is sent through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, similar to those used in hospitals, before being mixed with fresh outside air and entering the cabin again.

Studies before Covid showed air at an airplane seat is incredible pure, relative to almost any other place you will find yourself around other people. It's one of the only places you can go where your seat's air is constantly on and continually filtered for you. You are not in an "enclosed space" in terms of the air, nor are you "breathing the same recirculated air" as it's continually refreshed.
And each person effectively gets their own ventilation system, because each seat has its own airflow directed at them. That's why it really stands out to me -- like GeekyBugle, my initial reaction was that airlines would be hotbeds of disease. But the evidence was really clear, and once you think about it a little further, it does make sense.

So, assuming you're both correct...

What's the pretext to perpetuate the use of masks outside? Are you telling me I'm at more risk at a park than on an airplane?

And it begs the question, what's the reason then for the ban on smoking on airplanes? Those wornderful filters can filter viruses but not the smoke of cigarretes?

I think the outside mask mandate is mostly silly. I think they went with it because it was easier to do a blanket ban than it was to mandate "if you're in a crowd outside you need a mask."

As for cigarettes...our society is trying to ban them everywhere they can ban them without actually banning their use entirely. So if they can ban them in an indoor setting of any kind, even if it's a safe setting, they will.

As an ex smoker, and you're happy that your government (and mine to a lesser extent) is trying to ban smoking? When has prohibition worked? And furthermore, why does the government have the right to tell you what you can do with your body?

Why can't a bar/restaurant/etc choose to allow indoor smoking? Put a sign and let non-smokers go somewhere else? That's the liberal way, the other is the totalitarian way.

But I see BeijingBiden already wants to prohibit the consumption of red meat... Why aren't all the gringos protesting against this?

Not sure where you got the impression I am happy about either the outdoor mask requirement or the attempt to ban cigarettes but I am not. I don't smoke them, but I do sometimes smoke cigars, and I think we went too far to infringe people's choice to choose to smoke by exaggerating second hand smoke impacts as a pretext.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on April 24, 2021, 09:12:23 PM
So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should.
I'm not interested in humoring those afflicted with hypochondriasis. 
Two can play diagnose the mental illness game. :-/
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Larsdangly on April 26, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should.
I'm not interested in humoring those afflicted with hypochondriasis. 
Two can play diagnose the mental illness game. :-/

You are mindless goof if you believe it makes you a hypochondriac to wear a mask around other people after a year in which ~600,000 americans died of a novel virus spread through air droplets.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on April 26, 2021, 09:41:57 PM
So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should.
I'm not interested in humoring those afflicted with hypochondriasis. 
Two can play diagnose the mental illness game. :-/

You are mindless goof if you believe it makes you a hypochondriac to wear a mask around other people after a year in which ~600,000 americans died of a novel virus spread through air droplets.

I heard that it was 100 million dead.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Larsdangly on April 26, 2021, 09:59:48 PM
So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should.
I'm not interested in humoring those afflicted with hypochondriasis. 
Two can play diagnose the mental illness game. :-/

You are mindless goof if you believe it makes you a hypochondriac to wear a mask around other people after a year in which ~600,000 americans died of a novel virus spread through air droplets.

I heard that it was 100 million dead.

Presumably that's intended as some sort of snarky joke. Assuming that's so, you're engaged in one of the weirder acts of modern performative nihilism. The denial of Covid deaths comes from a different motivation from holocaust denial, but the two share the same intellectual pedigree. They are the realm of people with malignant personality disorders, and dipshits who believe the nonsense they make up.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 10:04:25 PM
So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should.
I'm not interested in humoring those afflicted with hypochondriasis. 
Two can play diagnose the mental illness game. :-/

You are mindless goof if you believe it makes you a hypochondriac to wear a mask around other people after a year in which ~600,000 americans died of a novel virus spread through air droplets.

I heard that it was 100 million dead.

Presumably that's intended as some sort of snarky joke. Assuming that's so, you're engaged in one of the weirder acts of modern performative nihilism. The denial of Covid deaths comes from a different motivation from holocaust denial, but the two share the same intellectual pedigree. They are the realm of people with malignant personality disorders, and dipshits who believe the nonsense they make up.

sir there are definitely no performative nihilists on this board, just people who do not care about dead seniors despite the average poster age
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on April 26, 2021, 10:37:54 PM
So, if you are a complete sociopath you might question whether or not you need to wear one, but otherwise it is obvious you should.
I'm not interested in humoring those afflicted with hypochondriasis. 
Two can play diagnose the mental illness game. :-/

You are mindless goof if you believe it makes you a hypochondriac to wear a mask around other people after a year in which ~600,000 americans died of a novel virus spread through air droplets.

I heard that it was 100 million dead.

Presumably that's intended as some sort of snarky joke.

Come on, man.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 26, 2021, 11:19:47 PM
Presumably that's intended as some sort of snarky joke. Assuming that's so, you're engaged in one of the weirder acts of modern performative nihilism. The denial of Covid deaths comes from a different motivation from holocaust denial, but the two share the same intellectual pedigree. They are the realm of people with malignant personality disorders, and dipshits who believe the nonsense they make up.
I did naht zee what you did there.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 27, 2021, 09:41:46 AM
So you're not only a sociopath if you thinking wearing a mask doesn't do anything, you're also a holocaust denier if you think the Chinavirus death count is inflated.

And I'm supposed to take this line of "reasoning" seriously?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 27, 2021, 11:08:18 AM
So you're not only a sociopath if you thinking wearing a mask doesn't do anything, you're also a holocaust denier if you think the Chinavirus death count is inflated.

And I'm supposed to take this line of "reasoning" seriously?

who cares if you do or don't, what's the impact
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 27, 2021, 11:44:24 AM
So you're not only a sociopath if you thinking wearing a mask doesn't do anything, you're also a holocaust denier if you think the Chinavirus death count is inflated.

And I'm supposed to take this line of "reasoning" seriously?

C'mon man!

Why would the count be inflated...

It isn't like they

1) Attributed a death to Covid-19 to anyone who displayed symptoms of the common cold.
2) Used a test that wasn't really designed to detect Covid to find it by increasing the 'gain' until the 'background noise' was so high the test registered as a positive result.
3) Cut the hospital's revenue to near 0 by shutting down elective procedures and then offering a financial incentive for Covid-19 patients.

oh wait... ???

But, hey at least the Flu didn't really hit last year... ::)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 27, 2021, 12:12:08 PM
goddamn would it have been handy or what if the disease like, made you grow hives on your dick as a symptom or turn your shit red? i mean just how much less arguing would there be if there'd been some obvious gross symptom
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on April 27, 2021, 12:20:17 PM
But, hey at least the Flu didn't really hit last year... ::)

So you're saying that the usual 30+ million annual flu cases dwindling down to mere thousands isn't normal..?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 27, 2021, 02:53:57 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 27, 2021, 03:34:22 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on April 27, 2021, 04:00:48 PM
non haec sine sensu sententiarum
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 27, 2021, 04:21:58 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 27, 2021, 04:45:16 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on April 27, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 27, 2021, 06:46:25 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 27, 2021, 07:20:11 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?

Explain how they are not vaccines. In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on April 27, 2021, 07:33:07 PM
You are mindless goof if you believe it makes you a hypochondriac to wear a mask around other people after a year in which ~600,000 americans died of a novel virus spread through air droplets.
70% of those who caught it wore masks all the time outside their home. 
It doesn't spread via "air droplets". 
It's aerosolized and it passes right through masks like mosquitos through a chain link fence.
Wearing a mask is a psychological crutch for the mentally impaired.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on April 27, 2021, 07:40:37 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
So they CDC has cleared what we've been doing since this thing began even before vaccinations.



Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 27, 2021, 07:49:37 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?

Explain how they are not vaccines. In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Did they start allowing J&J again?  I wondered why they shut it down when it had far fewer issues than the other two 'offerings'.

The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are not vaccines because a 'vaccine' is specifically an item made from dead or less potent forms of the virus in order to stimulate the bodies immune system to produce antibodies to fight it.

Neither of those two do that.  They alter the body to produce an item that will bond in a manner that prevents Covid from being able to cause a high enough virus load in the body.  Basically an internally created chemical blocker that prevents Covid from attaching.

This is why

1) During 'Warp Speed', they were talking about immunity from lawsuits for the manufacturers...actual vaccines have been granted civil immunity for the manufacturers since the 80s.

2) The Moderna SEC filing lists it as 'gene therapy' (I have not specifically read the filing for Pfizers, but the biochemistry itself is similar)
[note: There is nothing wrong with gene therapy as such...that is how we'll fix diabetes and a host of other genetic disorders.]

3) The 'experts' say you can still be a carrier or actually catch it...because it is not activating the immune system and you actually can still catch it.  It is supposed to keep the virus load low enough to prevent bad results.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on April 27, 2021, 08:01:03 PM
[note: There is nothing wrong with gene therapy as such...

Well not that we know of...
(http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/its-alive-1974-baby.jpg)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 27, 2021, 08:24:51 PM
 ;D

There can always be bad effects.  I am just suggesting that the research itself is not inherently bad...

Technically speaking, that is the reason I am not getting a jab.  I never get the flu shot because I can count on one hand the number of times I have been sick in the last 40 years.  I am better within 24-36 hours, maybe a little tired out to 48.  My immune system seems to work exceptionally well, so I prefer not to mess with it.  Since the jab alters body chemistry, I prefer to leave mine as is. Adding the possibility of unknown long-term effects just puts more weight on the 'no' side of the scale.

My stepfather is getting/has gotten one of the jabs (don't know which off the top of my head) and considering he is 80 and has had a stroke that is probably the right decision.  His health issues mean the harsher symptoms could be a problem and long-term effects are not a big factor at that age.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 27, 2021, 08:55:15 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
Isn't "no gods, no masters" the mantra of the commie totalitarians?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 28, 2021, 08:12:58 AM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
Isn't "no gods, no masters" the mantra of the commie totalitarians?
Which is funny, since the god of commie totalitarians is the State. And consistently they devolve into neo-feudalist societies rather than their magical 'equality for all' paradise.

In any case, the line is from Cato's Letters, or Essays on Liberty Civil and Religious and Other Important Subjects, by John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on April 28, 2021, 10:28:06 AM
;D

There can always be bad effects.  I am just suggesting that the research itself is not inherently bad...

Technically speaking, that is the reason I am not getting a jab.  I never get the flu shot because I can count on one hand the number of times I have been sick in the last 40 years.  I am better within 24-36 hours, maybe a little tired out to 48.  My immune system seems to work exceptionally well, so I prefer not to mess with it.  Since the jab alters body chemistry, I prefer to leave mine as is. Adding the possibility of unknown long-term effects just puts more weight on the 'no' side of the scale.

My stepfather is getting/has gotten one of the jabs (don't know which off the top of my head) and considering he is 80 and has had a stroke that is probably the right decision.  His health issues mean the harsher symptoms could be a problem and long-term effects are not a big factor at that age.

I crunched the numbers from Health Canada for my age cohort.  170k in the 40-49 bracket have tested positive.  2.8% ended up hospitalized, 0.3% admitted to ICU, 0.13% died.  Granted I'm overweight and out of shape (as a result of WFH and no gyms) and my family has a history of diabetes but I'm still willing to take those odds.  I don't imagine my odds are much better driving my daughter and wife to/from their schools each day.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2021, 12:18:03 PM
I am just suggesting that the research itself is not inherently bad...

Technically speaking, that is the reason I am not getting a jab.  I never get the flu shot because I can count on one hand the number of times I have been sick in the last 40 years.  I am better within 24-36 hours, maybe a little tired out to 48.  My immune system seems to work exceptionally well, so I prefer not to mess with it.  Since the jab alters body chemistry, I prefer to leave mine as is. Adding the possibility of unknown long-term effects just puts more weight on the 'no' side of the scale.

My stepfather is getting/has gotten one of the jabs (don't know which off the top of my head) and considering he is 80 and has had a stroke that is probably the right decision.  His health issues mean the harsher symptoms could be a problem and long-term effects are not a big factor at that age.

I crunched the numbers from Health Canada for my age cohort.  170k in the 40-49 bracket have tested positive.  2.8% ended up hospitalized, 0.3% admitted to ICU, 0.13% died.  Granted I'm overweight and out of shape (as a result of WFH and no gyms) and my family has a history of diabetes but I'm still willing to take those odds.  I don't imagine my odds are much better driving my daughter and wife to/from their schools each day.

Unless you have some particularly death-defying drive to their schools, the odds of a fatal crash are more then ten times lower. In the U.S., the driver fatality rate is around ​150 deaths per 10 billion vehicle-miles driven. Say you drive 20 miles to their schools every day, that's around 0.01% per year. cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_United_State.  That's more then ten times less likely than death by covid-19.

Put it another way. The overall death rate in the age cohort of 40-49 is around 300 per 100,000 (ref) (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm). That's 0.3%. So if someone in that age bracket were to get covid-19 with an 0.13% chance of death, they have a much greater chance of death (+40%).

The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Melichor on April 28, 2021, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: jhkim
The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

Your position is that COVID-19 vaccines prevent a vaccinated person from carrying the disease.
Are you really sure that's accurate? Even the great and powerful CDC isn't sure at this time.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2021, 01:25:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim
The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

Your position is that COVID-19 vaccines prevent a vaccinated person from carrying the disease.
Are you really sure that's accurate? Even the great and powerful CDC isn't sure at this time.

It isn't 100% in efficacy - and it isn't completely proven, but yes, there is good reason to think that vaccination will reduce the chances of transmission. It's been true of other diseases for certain. For covid-19, here's the CDC report on effectiveness studies to date:

Quote
Table 1b. Effectiveness against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection and transmission
CountryPopulationVaccineOutcomeVaccine effectiveness or risk reduction
United States (27)General adult populationPfizer-BioNTech or ModernaAsymptomatic infection80%*
United Kingdom (Scotland) (28)Healthcare workers and household membersPfizer-BioNTech or AstraZenecaHousehold members: SARS-CoV-2 infection54%**
Israel (19)General adult populationPfizer-BioNTechAsymptomatic infection94%**
* 0 days after second dose
** 14 days after second dose

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

EDITED TO ADD: And no, the U.S. CDC isn't all-knowing or perfect -- but these are studies at least across three different countries showing an effect. There is variations in results across different countries, but all of them show that covid-19 is a highly infectious, highly deadly disease -- and that the vaccines are largely effective and safe by comparison. For this to all be a hoax, it would require international cooperation on an unprecedented scale.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 28, 2021, 02:03:29 PM
I am just suggesting that the research itself is not inherently bad...

Technically speaking, that is the reason I am not getting a jab.  I never get the flu shot because I can count on one hand the number of times I have been sick in the last 40 years.  I am better within 24-36 hours, maybe a little tired out to 48.  My immune system seems to work exceptionally well, so I prefer not to mess with it.  Since the jab alters body chemistry, I prefer to leave mine as is. Adding the possibility of unknown long-term effects just puts more weight on the 'no' side of the scale.

My stepfather is getting/has gotten one of the jabs (don't know which off the top of my head) and considering he is 80 and has had a stroke that is probably the right decision.  His health issues mean the harsher symptoms could be a problem and long-term effects are not a big factor at that age.

I crunched the numbers from Health Canada for my age cohort.  170k in the 40-49 bracket have tested positive.  2.8% ended up hospitalized, 0.3% admitted to ICU, 0.13% died.  Granted I'm overweight and out of shape (as a result of WFH and no gyms) and my family has a history of diabetes but I'm still willing to take those odds.  I don't imagine my odds are much better driving my daughter and wife to/from their schools each day.

Unless you have some particularly death-defying drive to their schools, the odds of a fatal crash are more then ten times lower. In the U.S., the driver fatality rate is around ​150 deaths per 10 billion vehicle-miles driven. Say you drive 20 miles to their schools every day, that's around 0.01% per year. cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_United_State.  That's more then ten times less likely than death by covid-19.

Put it another way. The overall death rate in the age cohort of 40-49 is around 300 per 100,000 (ref) (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm). That's 0.3%. So if someone in that age bracket were to get covid-19 with an 0.13% chance of death, they have a much greater chance of death (+40%).

The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

1)  I think he lives in Canada, not the US...
2)  Assuming his wife/daughter go to school 5 days a week, he is making that round trip almost everyday...is he being exposed to Covid every day?  If not then that has to be taken into account as well
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on April 28, 2021, 02:06:05 PM
Quote from: jhkim
The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

Your position is that COVID-19 vaccines prevent a vaccinated person from carrying the disease.
Are you really sure that's accurate? Even the great and powerful CDC isn't sure at this time.

They've been saying the opposite.  You can still carry and spread, and even get sick, after the vaccination (I thought I saw news reports about some states having more covid deaths among vaccinated now than non-vaccinated?  probably misremembering).  The best analogy (now that the nanny state requires seat belts) is an Airbag in your car.  Me not having an airbag doesn't make you more likely to die or be seriously injured.  So why should I have to pay for airbags in my car?

I'm by no means an anti-vaxxer.  I've probably had more than the average Canadian because I've travelled to Egypt.  I just don't think companies should get to push out experimental therapies nor that being vaccinated should be required at this time.  If I were as old as my mom (72, obese, diabetic) I would 100% get the jab.  My wife is getting it (which I'm not thrilled about because I'm worried about long term -- but she's just asking for the astrazeneca).  I will likely get it next year when we hope to take my girls to Disneyland.  I will probably have to be forced at gun point to get my daughters vaccinated at this point however.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on April 28, 2021, 02:13:32 PM
I am just suggesting that the research itself is not inherently bad...

Technically speaking, that is the reason I am not getting a jab.  I never get the flu shot because I can count on one hand the number of times I have been sick in the last 40 years.  I am better within 24-36 hours, maybe a little tired out to 48.  My immune system seems to work exceptionally well, so I prefer not to mess with it.  Since the jab alters body chemistry, I prefer to leave mine as is. Adding the possibility of unknown long-term effects just puts more weight on the 'no' side of the scale.

My stepfather is getting/has gotten one of the jabs (don't know which off the top of my head) and considering he is 80 and has had a stroke that is probably the right decision.  His health issues mean the harsher symptoms could be a problem and long-term effects are not a big factor at that age.

I crunched the numbers from Health Canada for my age cohort.  170k in the 40-49 bracket have tested positive.  2.8% ended up hospitalized, 0.3% admitted to ICU, 0.13% died.  Granted I'm overweight and out of shape (as a result of WFH and no gyms) and my family has a history of diabetes but I'm still willing to take those odds.  I don't imagine my odds are much better driving my daughter and wife to/from their schools each day.

Unless you have some particularly death-defying drive to their schools, the odds of a fatal crash are more then ten times lower. In the U.S., the driver fatality rate is around ​150 deaths per 10 billion vehicle-miles driven. Say you drive 20 miles to their schools every day, that's around 0.01% per year. cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_United_State.  That's more then ten times less likely than death by covid-19.

Put it another way. The overall death rate in the age cohort of 40-49 is around 300 per 100,000 (ref) (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm). That's 0.3%. So if someone in that age bracket were to get covid-19 with an 0.13% chance of death, they have a much greater chance of death (+40%).

The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

1)  I think he lives in Canada, not the US...
2)  Assuming his wife/daughter go to school 5 days a week, he is making that round trip almost everyday...is he being exposed to Covid every day?  If not then that has to be taken into account as well

Yup I'm a Canuckistani.  Yes I know my chances of death are less than 0.13% from driving but hyperbole aside my greater point is that waking up and operating in society bears non-zero risk of dying.  Space junk could land on my head, we could finally have that earthquake they've been threatening my whole life, someone could shoot up either school my family attends, someone could invade my home.  Fucking derka derkas could bomb something or China could invade.  Life is risk man.  I was scared of Kung Flu back in Jan 2019 when it was mostly just China and I started stocking up on food.  Since then the numbers show that while deadlier than the 2018 flu its not exactly the fucking Spanish Flu (especially since that one affected both the young and the old not just people near death anyway).

My bubble is everyone in my eldest daughter's class, my youngest daughter's preschool, and my wife has 2 different classes per quarter (with 1 spare now).  Factor in all the people in those people's bubbles and my "bubble" is probably several hundreds.  My wife's grade 8's last quarter were self-isolated and I had to drive her to the testing site for a rapid test.  A bunch of my eldest daughter's class mates were self-isolated 3 weeks ago.  I'm 99% sure I had Covid back at Christmas 2019 but don't want to get tested because I don't want to add to the fear mongering "oh no cases are still going up!!!!  Sky is falling!"
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Melichor on April 28, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: jhkim
It isn't 100% in efficacy - and it isn't completely proven, but yes, there is good reason to think that vaccination will reduce the chances of transmission. It's been true of other diseases for certain. For covid-19, here's the CDC report on effectiveness studies to date:

Quote
Table 1b. Effectiveness against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection and transmission
CountryPopulationVaccineOutcomeVaccine effectiveness or risk reduction
United States (27)General adult populationPfizer-BioNTech or ModernaAsymptomatic infection80%*
United Kingdom (Scotland) (28)Healthcare workers and household membersPfizer-BioNTech or AstraZenecaHousehold members: SARS-CoV-2 infection54%**
Israel (19)General adult populationPfizer-BioNTechAsymptomatic infection94%**
* 0 days after second dose
** 14 days after second dose

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

EDITED TO ADD: And no, the U.S. CDC isn't all-knowing or perfect -- but these are studies at least across three different countries showing an effect. There is variations in results across different countries, but all of them show that covid-19 is a highly infectious, highly deadly disease -- and that the vaccines are largely effective and safe by comparison. For this to all be a hoax, it would require international cooperation on an unprecedented scale.

Why do you say hoax? Are you having doubts?
No one else has called this a hoax, it obviously isn't.
What it is though, is overblown, overwrought, political and promoted using biased and shaky data.

Asymptomatic infection 0 days after second dose = 80% effectiveness???   Were the subjects infected before the second dose was administered?

The second row (Scotland) isn't even for Asymptomatic infection, but rather Household members: SARS-CoV-2 infection. And only within  the population of Healthcare workers and household members.

The Third row (Israel) cites a Pfizer press release. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/real-world-evidence-confirms-high-effectiveness-pfizer
80% is referred to once in the press release:
Quote
The MoH analysis was conducted when more than 80% of tested specimens in Israel were variant B.1.1.7, providing real-world evidence of the effectiveness of BNT162b2 for prevention of COVID-19 infections, hospitalizations, and deaths due to variant B.1.1.7.

The CDC has proven themselves to be biased and agenda driven.
Word salads, obviously vague and errant data, suppressed information, and the 'bend the knee' attitude of those in charge, their minions and followers are reasons why some have issue with what's going on.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2021, 05:01:53 PM
I crunched the numbers from Health Canada for my age cohort.  170k in the 40-49 bracket have tested positive.  2.8% ended up hospitalized, 0.3% admitted to ICU, 0.13% died.  Granted I'm overweight and out of shape (as a result of WFH and no gyms) and my family has a history of diabetes but I'm still willing to take those odds.  I don't imagine my odds are much better driving my daughter and wife to/from their schools each day.
Yup I'm a Canuckistani.  Yes I know my chances of death are less than 0.13% from driving but hyperbole aside my greater point is that waking up and operating in society bears non-zero risk of dying.  Space junk could land on my head, we could finally have that earthquake they've been threatening my whole life, someone could shoot up either school my family attends, someone could invade my home.  Fucking derka derkas could bomb something or China could invade.  Life is risk man.  I was scared of Kung Flu back in Jan 2019 when it was mostly just China and I started stocking up on food.  Since then the numbers show that while deadlier than the 2018 flu its not exactly the fucking Spanish Flu (especially since that one affected both the young and the old not just people near death anyway).

It seemed like you were interested in what the odds were, since you talked about crunching the numbers. Yes, there is risk of death from many sources - but some things are far more dangerous than others. Personally, I try to be guided by information. In my life, I'm not worried about space junk or mass shootings for myself - but I do watch what I eat and exercise, because for my life, heart disease is the most likely killer along with cancer. And covid-19 would be even more risky if I caught it.

I think assessing relative risks is vital. For example, you compare it to the Spanish Flu that killed anywhere from 17 to 100 million worldwide, as opposed to 3 million so far from covid-19 and maybe 0.5 million from 2018 influenza. But I think that's deceptive. There's a huge difference there in that we have much better medicine and public health today compared to 1918. If we had better medicine and public health and been able to develop vaccines back in 1918, maybe there could have been millions fewer deaths by containing its spread and treating it.

It seems to me that the lesson from the 1918 Spanish Flu is that we should have taken it more seriously, and made broader efforts to contain its spread.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on April 28, 2021, 05:27:07 PM
I think assessing relative risks is vital. For example, you compare it to the Spanish Flu that killed anywhere from 17 to 100 million worldwide, as opposed to 3 million so far from covid-19 and maybe 0.5 million from 2018 influenza. But I think that's deceptive. There's a huge difference there in that we have much better medicine and public health today compared to 1918. If we had better medicine and public health and been able to develop vaccines back in 1918, maybe there could have been millions fewer deaths by containing its spread and treating it.

It seems to me that the lesson from the 1918 Spanish Flu is that we should have taken it more seriously, and made broader efforts to contain its spread.
World population, 1918: About 1.8 billion.
World population, 2020: About 7.8 billion.

You're right, it's deceptive. Just the opposite direction from the one you're implying. If you want to compare the Spanish flu deaths to current numbers, then that 3 million should be multiplied by 1.8/7.8. So it's 17 to 100 million vs. a proportional 700,000. That's approximately 2 orders of magnitude difference.

And how exactly would you propose the people of 1918 treat the Spanish flu, gene therapy?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on April 28, 2021, 06:04:18 PM
And how exactly would you propose the people of 1918 treat the Spanish flu, gene therapy?

Pat they should have used masks which have been proven by science to stop viral infections from spreading.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 28, 2021, 09:11:23 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.
How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?

Explain how they are not vaccines. In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Did they start allowing J&J again?  I wondered why they shut it down when it had far fewer issues than the other two 'offerings'.

The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are not vaccines because a 'vaccine' is specifically an item made from dead or less potent forms of the virus in order to stimulate the bodies immune system to produce antibodies to fight it.

Neither of those two do that.  They alter the body to produce an item that will bond in a manner that prevents Covid from being able to cause a high enough virus load in the body.  Basically an internally created chemical blocker that prevents Covid from attaching.

This is why

1) During 'Warp Speed', they were talking about immunity from lawsuits for the manufacturers...actual vaccines have been granted civil immunity for the manufacturers since the 80s.

2) The Moderna SEC filing lists it as 'gene therapy' (I have not specifically read the filing for Pfizers, but the biochemistry itself is similar)
[note: There is nothing wrong with gene therapy as such...that is how we'll fix diabetes and a host of other genetic disorders.]

3) The 'experts' say you can still be a carrier or actually catch it...because it is not activating the immune system and you actually can still catch it.  It is supposed to keep the virus load low enough to prevent bad results.

 In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine. And yes it's back in use. It had a very short pause.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 28, 2021, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: jhkim
The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

Your position is that COVID-19 vaccines prevent a vaccinated person from carrying the disease.
Are you really sure that's accurate? Even the great and powerful CDC isn't sure at this time.

They issued again yesterday a 94% success rate for the vaccine, including preventing asymptotic carriers.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 28, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: jhkim
The deal with vaccination, though, is even greater -- because people aren't just risking their own deaths. By carrying the disease, they can infect others who are less healthy and have greater odds of death. For example, for me, my church has lots of 70+ year old members. If I am around them, I could increase their odds - not to mention my parents and other relatives, or just elderly or immune-compromised people in the grocery store.

Your position is that COVID-19 vaccines prevent a vaccinated person from carrying the disease.
Are you really sure that's accurate? Even the great and powerful CDC isn't sure at this time.

They've been saying the opposite.  You can still carry and spread, and even get sick, after the vaccination (I thought I saw news reports about some states having more covid deaths among vaccinated now than non-vaccinated?  probably misremembering).  The best analogy (now that the nanny state requires seat belts) is an Airbag in your car.  Me not having an airbag doesn't make you more likely to die or be seriously injured.  So why should I have to pay for airbags in my car?

I'm by no means an anti-vaxxer.  I've probably had more than the average Canadian because I've travelled to Egypt.  I just don't think companies should get to push out experimental therapies nor that being vaccinated should be required at this time.  If I were as old as my mom (72, obese, diabetic) I would 100% get the jab.  My wife is getting it (which I'm not thrilled about because I'm worried about long term -- but she's just asking for the astrazeneca).  I will likely get it next year when we hope to take my girls to Disneyland.  I will probably have to be forced at gun point to get my daughters vaccinated at this point however.

They are saying it works but be cautious anyway, probably because they don't want to provide cover to those who are not vaccinated to blend in with those who are in nor wearing masks.  But here you go, and yes it's effective:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/health/covid-19-vaccines-reduce-hospitalization-cdc-study/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1sU8K_jE08VD6dURk-6Ye0oYNBnJFsHZTn_JKbvV0Ix0Tar6CmpcxFT9w
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 28, 2021, 09:42:54 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.


How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?

Explain how they are not vaccines. In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Did they start allowing J&J again?  I wondered why they shut it down when it had far fewer issues than the other two 'offerings'.

The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are not vaccines because a 'vaccine' is specifically an item made from dead or less potent forms of the virus in order to stimulate the bodies immune system to produce antibodies to fight it.

Neither of those two do that.  They alter the body to produce an item that will bond in a manner that prevents Covid from being able to cause a high enough virus load in the body.  Basically an internally created chemical blocker that prevents Covid from attaching.

This is why

1) During 'Warp Speed', they were talking about immunity from lawsuits for the manufacturers...actual vaccines have been granted civil immunity for the manufacturers since the 80s.

2) The Moderna SEC filing lists it as 'gene therapy' (I have not specifically read the filing for Pfizers, but the biochemistry itself is similar)
[note: There is nothing wrong with gene therapy as such...that is how we'll fix diabetes and a host of other genetic disorders.]

3) The 'experts' say you can still be a carrier or actually catch it...because it is not activating the immune system and you actually can still catch it.  It is supposed to keep the virus load low enough to prevent bad results.

 In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine. And yes it's back in use. It had a very short pause.

Based on how it functions by using the DNA portion of Covid that creates the particular spike proteins, attaches it to adenovirus, which is done in order to stimulate antibodies to attack spike proteins the J&J jab at least 'functions' in a similar manner to actual vaccines...whether using an adenovirus carrier for a small DNA segment actually qualifies it as a 'technical' vaccine according to the definition is really iffy considering other circumstances.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Eirikrautha on April 28, 2021, 10:09:30 PM
...but all of them show that covid-19 is a highly infectious, highly deadly disease -- and that the vaccines are largely effective and safe by comparison.

Do you even read the studies you post?  They all say that Covid is a highly-contagious disease.  NONE say it is a highly deadly disease, because that would be staggeringly wrong.  Covid has a mortality rate less that 1%.  There are literally thousands of diseases active world-wide today with a higher mortality rate (ever heard of Ebola?  That's deadly... 40% fatality rate).  Covid isn't even close to being "deadly".  There's a big difference between "can die from it" and "deadly."  Either you are so ignorant that you don't know that difference (in which case, why should anyone even listen to your opinion on this matter?), or you are purposely conflating those two ideas so as to try and justify something you know isn't true.  So, are you ignorant or mendacious?

Covid's primary danger is that it can spread to a large number of people easily, so that its miniscule mortality rate will still cause a sizable number of deaths among the most vulnerable people.  It is NOT a mortal danger to 99+% of the people who get it.  So, by all means, we should protect those who are most vulnerable (or, better yet, they should protect themselves).  But their risk has no bearing on my own decisions about the risks involved in vaccinating myself against a virus that is highly unlikely to cause me permanent harm.  My body, my choice.  If that phrase immunizes a woman from having to care about the effects of her choices on the unborn, then it sure as hell means that I am not responsible for you not taking precautions to prevent your own illness.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on April 28, 2021, 10:34:13 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.


How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?

Explain how they are not vaccines. In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Did they start allowing J&J again?  I wondered why they shut it down when it had far fewer issues than the other two 'offerings'.

The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are not vaccines because a 'vaccine' is specifically an item made from dead or less potent forms of the virus in order to stimulate the bodies immune system to produce antibodies to fight it.

Neither of those two do that.  They alter the body to produce an item that will bond in a manner that prevents Covid from being able to cause a high enough virus load in the body.  Basically an internally created chemical blocker that prevents Covid from attaching.

This is why

1) During 'Warp Speed', they were talking about immunity from lawsuits for the manufacturers...actual vaccines have been granted civil immunity for the manufacturers since the 80s.

2) The Moderna SEC filing lists it as 'gene therapy' (I have not specifically read the filing for Pfizers, but the biochemistry itself is similar)
[note: There is nothing wrong with gene therapy as such...that is how we'll fix diabetes and a host of other genetic disorders.]

3) The 'experts' say you can still be a carrier or actually catch it...because it is not activating the immune system and you actually can still catch it.  It is supposed to keep the virus load low enough to prevent bad results.

 In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine. And yes it's back in use. It had a very short pause.

Based on how it functions by using the DNA portion of Covid that creates the particular spike proteins, attaches it to adenovirus, which is done in order to stimulate antibodies to attack spike proteins the J&J jab at least 'functions' in a similar manner to actual vaccines...whether using an adenovirus carrier for a small DNA segment actually qualifies it as a 'technical' vaccine according to the definition is really iffy considering other circumstances.

So they are not vaccines except they might be. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on April 28, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
CDC has now cleared vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask in non-crowded situations.


How nice of our would-be overlords to throw us a bone.

Nisi forte non de serveitute, sed de conditione serviendi, recusandum est a nobis.
No bones for the anti-vaxxers (that also happen to overlap considerably with the anti-maskers).

Since they are not actually a 'vaccine' what do anti-vaxxers have to do with it?
Did you read the part about vaccinated people being the ones allowed to go maskless?

Which doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Since the jabs being offered are not vaccines (in either the legal or scientific definition) what do anti-vaxxers have to do with the situation?

Explain how they are not vaccines. In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Did they start allowing J&J again?  I wondered why they shut it down when it had far fewer issues than the other two 'offerings'.

The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are not vaccines because a 'vaccine' is specifically an item made from dead or less potent forms of the virus in order to stimulate the bodies immune system to produce antibodies to fight it.

Neither of those two do that.  They alter the body to produce an item that will bond in a manner that prevents Covid from being able to cause a high enough virus load in the body.  Basically an internally created chemical blocker that prevents Covid from attaching.

This is why

1) During 'Warp Speed', they were talking about immunity from lawsuits for the manufacturers...actual vaccines have been granted civil immunity for the manufacturers since the 80s.

2) The Moderna SEC filing lists it as 'gene therapy' (I have not specifically read the filing for Pfizers, but the biochemistry itself is similar)
[note: There is nothing wrong with gene therapy as such...that is how we'll fix diabetes and a host of other genetic disorders.]

3) The 'experts' say you can still be a carrier or actually catch it...because it is not activating the immune system and you actually can still catch it.  It is supposed to keep the virus load low enough to prevent bad results.

 In particular, I'd love to hear how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine isn't a vaccine. And yes it's back in use. It had a very short pause.

Based on how it functions by using the DNA portion of Covid that creates the particular spike proteins, attaches it to adenovirus, which is done in order to stimulate antibodies to attack spike proteins the J&J jab at least 'functions' in a similar manner to actual vaccines...whether using an adenovirus carrier for a small DNA segment actually qualifies it as a 'technical' vaccine according to the definition is really iffy considering other circumstances.

So they are not vaccines except they might be. Gotcha.

Uh nooo....

I pointed out why the Pfizer and Moderna specifically cannot be vaccines...

in the case of J&J, the biochemical part functions like a vaccine (as in it actually stimulates a response by the immune system) but it in fact probably does not fit the specific definition and I would welcome an actual citing that it fits the legal definition and would therefore have civil suit immunity due to the original 80s law.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on April 29, 2021, 10:59:04 AM
...but all of them show that covid-19 is a highly infectious, highly deadly disease -- and that the vaccines are largely effective and safe by comparison.

Do you even read the studies you post?  They all say that Covid is a highly-contagious disease.  NONE say it is a highly deadly disease, because that would be staggeringly wrong.  Covid has a mortality rate less that 1%.  There are literally thousands of diseases active world-wide today with a higher mortality rate (ever heard of Ebola?  That's deadly... 40% fatality rate).  Covid isn't even close to being "deadly".  There's a big difference between "can die from it" and "deadly."  Either you are so ignorant that you don't know that difference (in which case, why should anyone even listen to your opinion on this matter?), or you are purposely conflating those two ideas so as to try and justify something you know isn't true.  So, are you ignorant or mendacious?

Covid's primary danger is that it can spread to a large number of people easily, so that its miniscule mortality rate will still cause a sizable number of deaths among the most vulnerable people.  It is NOT a mortal danger to 99+% of the people who get it.  So, by all means, we should protect those who are most vulnerable (or, better yet, they should protect themselves).  But their risk has no bearing on my own decisions about the risks involved in vaccinating myself against a virus that is highly unlikely to cause me permanent harm.  My body, my choice.  If that phrase immunizes a woman from having to care about the effects of her choices on the unborn, then it sure as hell means that I am not responsible for you not taking precautions to prevent your own illness.

Thank you for more eloquently saying my opinions.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 03:34:26 PM
...but all of them show that covid-19 is a highly infectious, highly deadly disease -- and that the vaccines are largely effective and safe by comparison.

Do you even read the studies you post?  They all say that Covid is a highly-contagious disease.  NONE say it is a highly deadly disease, because that would be staggeringly wrong.  Covid has a mortality rate less that 1%.  There are literally thousands of diseases active world-wide today with a higher mortality rate (ever heard of Ebola?  That's deadly... 40% fatality rate).  Covid isn't even close to being "deadly".  There's a big difference between "can die from it" and "deadly."  Either you are so ignorant that you don't know that difference (in which case, why should anyone even listen to your opinion on this matter?), or you are purposely conflating those two ideas so as to try and justify something you know isn't true.  So, are you ignorant or mendacious?

Eirikrautha, my intent was to use the term "deadly" based on the 3 million deaths that it has caused in a year - which distinguishes it from infections that are highly contagious but far less deadly, such as the common cold or HPV. I agree that the covid-19 infection fatality rate is less than 1%, and I did not mean to imply otherwise. I'm sorry if it came across that way.


Covid's primary danger is that it can spread to a large number of people easily, so that its miniscule mortality rate will still cause a sizable number of deaths among the most vulnerable people.  It is NOT a mortal danger to 99+% of the people who get it.  So, by all means, we should protect those who are most vulnerable (or, better yet, they should protect themselves).  But their risk has no bearing on my own decisions about the risks involved in vaccinating myself against a virus that is highly unlikely to cause me permanent harm.  My body, my choice.  If that phrase immunizes a woman from having to care about the effects of her choices on the unborn, then it sure as hell means that I am not responsible for you not taking precautions to prevent your own illness.

Again, I did not mean to imply that it was not your choice regarding vaccines. I agree that your body is your choice. I favor choosing to take this and other recommended vaccines, and I'd hope to continue to discuss it.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on May 01, 2021, 01:46:39 AM
I'd have a lot more faith in the medical community and medical authorities if they hadn't spent the last year misleading people about infection numbers (only now are we seeing recommendations that PCR testing not use extremely high thresholds for diagnostics) and mortality statistics (dying *with* a positive test should never be considered in the same figures as dying from Covid).

I really want to be able to trust doctors and scientists, but where are the doctors and scientists speaking out when the government sends out stormtroopers with guns to physically and psychologically terrorize innocent people?

I'm okay with people being encouraged to wear masks, even if the evidence is weak for their effectiveness. But how can we possibly justify tackling people, breaking their arms, tasing them, and other kinds of direct and immediate violence because someone isn't wearing a mask? -- Keep in mind a person not wearing a mask isn't proven to be infected, isn't proven to be a risk for transmitting the virus to others, and hasn't done anything to harm anyone else. Similar arguments apply to vaccines and the inevitable vaccine passports.

Using violence to enforce this is like sending SWAT teams into forests to kill butterflies because someone produced a computer model that said butterflies flapping their wings might potentially cause a hurricane somewhere. Punishing people for might-happens is completely morally unjustifiable.

The scientific method most certainly does not include using the state, or using the state-backed technology firms, to censor and suppress information. All this stuff does is reduce the credibility of the medical professionals who claim they are just trying to save lives. If saving lives is the goal, then denouncing draconian measures, most of which don't align with the science, is essential to retaining public trust.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 01, 2021, 08:42:05 AM
I'd have a lot more faith in the medical community and medical authorities if they hadn't spent the last year misleading people about infection numbers (only now are we seeing recommendations that PCR testing not use extremely high thresholds for diagnostics) and mortality statistics (dying *with* a positive test should never be considered in the same figures as dying from Covid).

I really want to be able to trust doctors and scientists, but where are the doctors and scientists speaking out when the government sends out stormtroopers with guns to physically and psychologically terrorize innocent people?

I'm okay with people being encouraged to wear masks, even if the evidence is weak for their effectiveness. But how can we possibly justify tackling people, breaking their arms, tasing them, and other kinds of direct and immediate violence because someone isn't wearing a mask? -- Keep in mind a person not wearing a mask isn't proven to be infected, isn't proven to be a risk for transmitting the virus to others, and hasn't done anything to harm anyone else. Similar arguments apply to vaccines and the inevitable vaccine passports.

Using violence to enforce this is like sending SWAT teams into forests to kill butterflies because someone produced a computer model that said butterflies flapping their wings might potentially cause a hurricane somewhere. Punishing people for might-happens is completely morally unjustifiable.

The scientific method most certainly does not include using the state, or using the state-backed technology firms, to censor and suppress information. All this stuff does is reduce the credibility of the medical professionals who claim they are just trying to save lives. If saving lives is the goal, then denouncing draconian measures, most of which don't align with the science, is essential to retaining public trust.
I already brought up the problems with PCR testing only to be told I was an idiot, didn't understand the science, etc (despite me direct linking to the article regarding it).

Which makes me think certain folks have a vested interest in sustaining the situation.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on May 01, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
I'd have a lot more faith in the medical community and medical authorities if they hadn't spent the last year misleading people about infection numbers (only now are we seeing recommendations that PCR testing not use extremely high thresholds for diagnostics) and mortality statistics (dying *with* a positive test should never be considered in the same figures as dying from Covid).

I really want to be able to trust doctors and scientists, but where are the doctors and scientists speaking out when the government sends out stormtroopers with guns to physically and psychologically terrorize innocent people?

I'm okay with people being encouraged to wear masks, even if the evidence is weak for their effectiveness. But how can we possibly justify tackling people, breaking their arms, tasing them, and other kinds of direct and immediate violence because someone isn't wearing a mask? -- Keep in mind a person not wearing a mask isn't proven to be infected, isn't proven to be a risk for transmitting the virus to others, and hasn't done anything to harm anyone else. Similar arguments apply to vaccines and the inevitable vaccine passports.

Using violence to enforce this is like sending SWAT teams into forests to kill butterflies because someone produced a computer model that said butterflies flapping their wings might potentially cause a hurricane somewhere. Punishing people for might-happens is completely morally unjustifiable.

The scientific method most certainly does not include using the state, or using the state-backed technology firms, to censor and suppress information. All this stuff does is reduce the credibility of the medical professionals who claim they are just trying to save lives. If saving lives is the goal, then denouncing draconian measures, most of which don't align with the science, is essential to retaining public trust.

I already brought up the problems with PCR testing only to be told I was an idiot, didn't understand the science, etc (despite me direct linking to the article regarding it).

Which makes me think certain folks have a vested interest in sustaining the situation.

I'm sorry you were told you are an idiot, Ghostmaker. I think there's a huge problem in having dialog between the two sides. I feel like I've been called a lot of names here on this forum for my positions, but I also know that plenty liberals often disparage conservatives on this - often from a place of ignorance.

I've seen a few different issues in PCR testing come up in a few different countries/agencies -- which can result in either undercounting or overcounting. The main problem I see is the problem of consistency, in that these sort of 10-20% differences can mean skewed comparisons between different regions. But there are a lot of larger unexplained differences between different countries regardless of those sort of counting issues, so it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

I think there has been a ton of political pressure in different directions on scientific sources in the face of the pandemic, which is unsurprising given the suddenness and the huge effects. There has been scandal - notably the fake data from Surgisphere. Science has never been immune to politics. However, I also think most of the attacks on the science are from sources that are much less reliable than the science itself.

To Zelen -- I absolutely don't think that violence against people not wearing masks. I am also opposed to violence against businesses or employees for requiring masks. I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Eirikrautha on May 01, 2021, 09:28:38 PM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.
Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on May 01, 2021, 11:34:04 PM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.
Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!

There's countless examples of both police and civilians becoming belligerent. It's really concerning because it demonstrates that people aren't thinking rationally about this. We're supposed to be trying to prevent people from getting hurt, aren't we? Yet fear porn and media stoking antagonism leads us down a path where cracking someone's skull with a baton is acceptable against a person walking around outside without a clothing accessory.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 02, 2021, 09:02:07 AM

I'm sorry you were told you are an idiot, Ghostmaker. I think there's a huge problem in having dialog between the two sides. I feel like I've been called a lot of names here on this forum for my positions, but I also know that plenty liberals often disparage conservatives on this - often from a place of ignorance.

If you want to see a good microcosm of the problems we face, check this out:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/29/teargas-protest-menstrual-cycles-health-impact

(Yes, I know it's the Guardian, one step up from fish wrap; bear with me)

They are talking about 'science' and a 'study' that utilized an anonymous online poll. Because as one fellow put it, 'online polling is so fucking accurate'.

Congratulations, wokeists. You're relying on the same methodology that 4chan has discredited, repeatedly.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on May 02, 2021, 05:28:08 PM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.

Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!

We have a lot of people from different countries, so I thought I'd ask. I think you're talking about the incident in Logan, Ohio - is that your area? I just watched the video for that now - she was asked to put a mask on, then when she refused she was asked to leave, and she still refused, so she was cited for trespassing. The officer tried to handcuff her and she resisted, after which he tased her. I don't think the mask requirement was necessary, and the tasing was certainly not - but at the same time, if she refused to follow the state and school policies and is asked to leave, she should have left peacefully.

There are cases of alleged violence the other way, though - like the Oklahoma City woman who shot McDonald's employees who told her that the dining area was closed for covid (ref) (https://okcfox.com/news/local/okcpd-respond-to-shooting-outside-mcdonalds-in-sw-okc), or the Hutchinson Minnesota man who caught a police officer on his truck after he allegedly assaulted a store employee over a mask requirement (ref) (https://www.newsweek.com/police-hammer-attack-menards-mask-dispute-minnesota-1583807).

I think the problem over incidents like this is similar to the discussion over police shootings of black people. Liberals and conservatives will argue over the specifics of given incidents, and about how much any given incident reflects the general trend. Often because of these differences, it's hard to even get to the point of discussing policy.

There will be disagreements over many covid measures, and I don't think that we should turn to violence over them, and at least here on this forum can discuss based on the issues.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on May 02, 2021, 05:32:22 PM

I'm sorry you were told you are an idiot, Ghostmaker. I think there's a huge problem in having dialog between the two sides. I feel like I've been called a lot of names here on this forum for my positions, but I also know that plenty liberals often disparage conservatives on this - often from a place of ignorance.

If you want to see a good microcosm of the problems we face, check this out:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/29/teargas-protest-menstrual-cycles-health-impact

(Yes, I know it's the Guardian, one step up from fish wrap; bear with me)

They are talking about 'science' and a 'study' that utilized an anonymous online poll. Because as one fellow put it, 'online polling is so fucking accurate'.

Congratulations, wokeists. You're relying on the same methodology that 4chan has discredited, repeatedly.

So...my pussy hurts?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 04, 2021, 02:01:43 PM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.

Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!

We have a lot of people from different countries, so I thought I'd ask. I think you're talking about the incident in Logan, Ohio - is that your area? I just watched the video for that now - she was asked to put a mask on, then when she refused she was asked to leave, and she still refused, so she was cited for trespassing. The officer tried to handcuff her and she resisted, after which he tased her. I don't think the mask requirement was necessary, and the tasing was certainly not - but at the same time, if she refused to follow the state and school policies and is asked to leave, she should have left peacefully.

There are cases of alleged violence the other way, though - like the Oklahoma City woman who shot McDonald's employees who told her that the dining area was closed for covid (ref) (https://okcfox.com/news/local/okcpd-respond-to-shooting-outside-mcdonalds-in-sw-okc), or the Hutchinson Minnesota man who caught a police officer on his truck after he allegedly assaulted a store employee over a mask requirement (ref) (https://www.newsweek.com/police-hammer-attack-menards-mask-dispute-minnesota-1583807).

I think the problem over incidents like this is similar to the discussion over police shootings of black people. Liberals and conservatives will argue over the specifics of given incidents, and about how much any given incident reflects the general trend. Often because of these differences, it's hard to even get to the point of discussing policy.

There will be disagreements over many covid measures, and I don't think that we should turn to violence over them, and at least here on this forum can discuss based on the issues.

So, because the state says so she has to comply or get tased? What about her right to peacefully assemble? What about her fucking rights?

And the excuse that the administrator and police were "just following state orders" sounds eerilly familiar.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 04, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.
Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!

There's countless examples of both police and civilians becoming belligerent. It's really concerning because it demonstrates that people aren't thinking rationally about this. We're supposed to be trying to prevent people from getting hurt, aren't we? Yet fear porn and media stoking antagonism leads us down a path where cracking someone's skull with a baton is acceptable against a person walking around outside without a clothing accessory.

Welcome to the morality police, when they tell you they want to abolish the police they are lying, what they want is THEIR brand of Sharia Police, enforcing THEIR morality on you.

How dare you missgender X? Go to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200

How dare you criticize Buy Large Mansions? Go to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200

How dare you speak against the intersectional cult?  Go to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200

How dare you!?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on May 04, 2021, 02:06:49 PM
Well it's not like you're gonna do anything about it, so we know you don't dare much at all.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 05, 2021, 08:30:33 AM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.
Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!

There's countless examples of both police and civilians becoming belligerent. It's really concerning because it demonstrates that people aren't thinking rationally about this. We're supposed to be trying to prevent people from getting hurt, aren't we? Yet fear porn and media stoking antagonism leads us down a path where cracking someone's skull with a baton is acceptable against a person walking around outside without a clothing accessory.

Welcome to the morality police, when they tell you they want to abolish the police they are lying, what they want is THEIR brand of Sharia Police, enforcing THEIR morality on you.

How dare you missgender X? Go to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200

How dare you criticize Buy Large Mansions? Go to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200

How dare you speak against the intersectional cult?  Go to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200

How dare you!?
This is a lot funnier if you imagine it said with Greta the Autistic Muppet's voice. :D
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on May 05, 2021, 01:50:09 PM
I don't know where you are that you're seeing people tased over mask wearing, but obviously that's unacceptable.

Uhhh, the USA?  There was a woman tased at a high school football game about 6-8 months ago, sitting in the stands, outside, ten feet from everyone.  When she asked the school resource officer (somewhat brusquely) why she needed to put on a mask in those conditions... zap!

We have a lot of people from different countries, so I thought I'd ask. I think you're talking about the incident in Logan, Ohio - is that your area? I just watched the video for that now - she was asked to put a mask on, then when she refused she was asked to leave, and she still refused, so she was cited for trespassing. The officer tried to handcuff her and she resisted, after which he tased her. I don't think the mask requirement was necessary, and the tasing was certainly not - but at the same time, if she refused to follow the state and school policies and is asked to leave, she should have left peacefully.

There are cases of alleged violence the other way, though - like the Oklahoma City woman who shot McDonald's employees who told her that the dining area was closed for covid (ref) (https://okcfox.com/news/local/okcpd-respond-to-shooting-outside-mcdonalds-in-sw-okc), or the Hutchinson Minnesota man who caught a police officer on his truck after he allegedly assaulted a store employee over a mask requirement (ref) (https://www.newsweek.com/police-hammer-attack-menards-mask-dispute-minnesota-1583807).

I think the problem over incidents like this is similar to the discussion over police shootings of black people. Liberals and conservatives will argue over the specifics of given incidents, and about how much any given incident reflects the general trend. Often because of these differences, it's hard to even get to the point of discussing policy.

There will be disagreements over many covid measures, and I don't think that we should turn to violence over them, and at least here on this forum can discuss based on the issues.

So, because the state says so she has to comply or get tased? What about her right to peacefully assemble? What about her fucking rights?

And the excuse that the administrator and police were "just following state orders" sounds eerilly familiar.

It was not peaceable assemble, it was non-violent protest. And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased. You seem content with that, when it's BLM protestors doing it.
The "just following orders" was a science based health and safety order, not a murder all Jews type order. In general, you're cool with things like "pulling people over for reckless driving" type things, but because you don't like this one or agree with this one you're going to compare it to the Nuremberg Trials? Pussy move.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 01:52:20 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on May 05, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on May 05, 2021, 02:17:25 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.

i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.

if nobody's fuckin shooting each other over it yet, that's only a yet
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 02:30:25 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on May 05, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.

it does allow they're just real heavy and hard to throw and it doesn't have any language about planes or launch silos.

that's how Big Nuke gets ya, you buy the warhead and learn you can't get a silo
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on May 05, 2021, 02:49:32 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

I think there's a problem of people looking only at the news headlines of their chosen politics, and get differently-biased views of policing.

To liberal people watching only liberal media, then there are dozens of cases of police abuse or killing of non-white people and peaceful protesters -- and white conservatives acting violent and are arrested peacefully or even let go.

To conservative people watching only conservative media, then there are dozens of cases of police abuse of white people acting peacefully -- and non-white people acting violent and being arrested peacefully or even let go.

I think judging from the generality of police behavior from a handful of cases isn't accurate. The police aren't one-sidedly either stereotype, and it's difficult to judge the spectrum of their behavior - but I also don't think it's necessary. One can say that it's wrong for the police to abuse and offer violence to people peacefully breaking the law regardless of their politics. We can talk about how police use of force independent of political side.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 05, 2021, 05:57:37 PM
It's very simple. Pull out your copy of the Constitution. Go to Amendment One.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

That last part is the relevant bit. Peaceably assemble. PEACEABLY.

Hence why I was pissed as hell at the 1/6 mess. Although I'm even more pissed that the feds are holding persons without bail or trial while letting BLM and Antifa fucktards walk free, despite certainly being far more dangerous than the guy who stole Nancy Pelosi's podium.

(Also, the FBI is a pack of morons. They managed to kick in the door of a couple who were at the rally but didn't go anywhere near the Capitol buildings, based on a blurry picture that showed a woman in a  similar jacket. Holy fuck, and people thought the J. Edgar Hoover days were bad.)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 07:24:10 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.

it does allow they're just real heavy and hard to throw and it doesn't have any language about planes or launch silos.

that's how Big Nuke gets ya, you buy the war
head and learn you can't get a silo
12th century technology to the rescue!
https://youtu.be/cs8gamnMIS0?t=50
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on May 05, 2021, 07:27:48 PM
It's been pretty well known for over a year that risk of transmission outdoors, as long as you're not right up on top of other people, is so miniscule that there's no rational reason to argue for restriction on outdoor activities. People ought to be encouraged to go outdoors because getting sunlight and physical activity is way more beneficial to your overall health (& specific defense against the-deadliest-virus-ever) than the risks you face by not locking yourself in and cowering.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on May 05, 2021, 07:29:18 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.

it does allow they're just real heavy and hard to throw and it doesn't have any language about planes or launch silos.

that's how Big Nuke gets ya, you buy the war
head and learn you can't get a silo
12th century technology to the rescue!
https://youtu.be/cs8gamnMIS0?t=50

Remember...close counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and thermonuclear weapons!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 07:43:10 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

I think there's a problem of people looking only at the news headlines of their chosen politics, and get differently-biased views of policing.

To liberal people watching only liberal media, then there are dozens of cases of police abuse or killing of non-white people and peaceful protesters -- and white conservatives acting violent and are arrested peacefully or even let go.

To conservative people watching only conservative media, then there are dozens of cases of police abuse of white people acting peacefully -- and non-white people acting violent and being arrested peacefully or even let go.

I think judging from the generality of police behavior from a handful of cases isn't accurate. The police aren't one-sidedly either stereotype, and it's difficult to judge the spectrum of their behavior - but I also don't think it's necessary. One can say that it's wrong for the police to abuse and offer violence to people peacefully breaking the law regardless of their politics. We can talk about how police use of force independent of political side.
There's a massive difference between riots in a hundred cities and towns, 30+ dead, 150 federal buildings burned, and billions of dollars of damage. And prosecutors are dropping most of the felony charges, including violence against cops that was caught on camera.

Versus an "insurrection" where the cops pulled aside the barricades and invited people in, who stayed behind the ropes, and didn't smash the statues. And yes, a small contingent broke down some doors, took pictures of themselves muddying the desks of important nobles, and maybe swiped some stuff like laptops. And 1 got shot by a cop (the other 4 deaths are now known to be just unfortunate medical emergencies). And who are now being hunted down like terrorists.

You're making a false equivalence. Yes, there have been bad actors on both sides, but one side has been far worse, yet it's the other side who are being demonized by the press and hounded by the law out of proportion to their actions. Mostly, because of partisan politics. But significantly, because the protest was against the people in power, at their seat of power, and the reaction of the power-elite was a clear-fuck-no-we-can't-allow-this, based on a sense of noble privilege, and expressed as outrage at these common plebs who dared to intrude on their sacred place and defile their precious property with grubby hands.

The latter in particular pisses me off. Fuck partisanship and bias, sure. They suck. But the Capitol is not the palace of the oligarchy. It's supposed to be the place where the voice of all people are heard. If we are going to protect the right to protest anywhere, it should be there. But the response of the entitled on both sides, like Schumer and McConnell, shows they think they're the kings and queens and how dare we.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 07:45:15 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.

it does allow they're just real heavy and hard to throw and it doesn't have any language about planes or launch silos.

that's how Big Nuke gets ya, you buy the war
head and learn you can't get a silo
12th century technology to the rescue!
https://youtu.be/cs8gamnMIS0?t=50

Remember...close counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and thermonuclear weapons!
And anthrax!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on May 05, 2021, 07:53:37 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.

it does allow they're just real heavy and hard to throw and it doesn't have any language about planes or launch silos.

that's how Big Nuke gets ya, you buy the war
head and learn you can't get a silo
12th century technology to the rescue!
https://youtu.be/cs8gamnMIS0?t=50

Remember...close counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and thermonuclear weapons!
And anthrax!
Doesn't that depend on how far the trebuchet can throw the sheep?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on May 05, 2021, 08:04:50 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

I think there's a problem of people looking only at the news headlines of their chosen politics, and get differently-biased views of policing.

To liberal people watching only liberal media, then there are dozens of cases of police abuse or killing of non-white people and peaceful protesters -- and white conservatives acting violent and are arrested peacefully or even let go.

To conservative people watching only conservative media, then there are dozens of cases of police abuse of white people acting peacefully -- and non-white people acting violent and being arrested peacefully or even let go.

I think judging from the generality of police behavior from a handful of cases isn't accurate. The police aren't one-sidedly either stereotype, and it's difficult to judge the spectrum of their behavior - but I also don't think it's necessary. One can say that it's wrong for the police to abuse and offer violence to people peacefully breaking the law regardless of their politics. We can talk about how police use of force independent of political side.
There's a massive difference between riots in a hundred cities and towns, 30+ dead, 150 federal buildings burned, and billions of dollars of damage. And prosecutors are dropping most of the felony charges, including violence against cops that was caught on camera.

Versus an "insurrection" where the cops pulled aside the barricades and invited people in, who stayed behind the ropes, and didn't smash the statues. And yes, a small contingent broke down some doors, took pictures of themselves muddying the desks of important nobles, and maybe swiped some stuff like laptops. And 1 got shot by a cop (the other 4 deaths are now known to be just unfortunate medical emergencies). And who are now being hunted down like terrorists.

You're making a false equivalence. Yes, there have been bad actors on both sides, but one side has been far worse, yet it's the other side who are being demonized by the press and hounded by the law out of proportion to their actions. Mostly, because of partisan politics. But significantly, because the protest was against the people in power, at their seat of power, and the reaction of the power-elite was a clear-fuck-no-we-can't-allow-this, based on a sense of noble privilege, and expressed as outrage at these common plebs who dared to intrude on their sacred place and defile their precious property with grubby hands.

The latter in particular pisses me off. Fuck partisanship and bias, sure. They suck. But the Capitol is not the palace of the oligarchy. It's supposed to be the place where the voice of all people are heard. If we are going to protect the right to protest anywhere, it should be there. But the response of the entitled on both sides, like Schumer and McConnell, shows they think they're the kings and queens and how dare we.

Greetings!

Exactly, Pat! Very well said. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on May 05, 2021, 08:50:31 PM
I think judging from the generality of police behavior from a handful of cases isn't accurate. The police aren't one-sidedly either stereotype, and it's difficult to judge the spectrum of their behavior - but I also don't think it's necessary. One can say that it's wrong for the police to abuse and offer violence to people peacefully breaking the law regardless of their politics. We can talk about how police use of force independent of political side.

There's a massive difference between riots in a hundred cities and towns, 30+ dead, 150 federal buildings burned, and billions of dollars of damage. And prosecutors are dropping most of the felony charges, including violence against cops that was caught on camera.

Versus an "insurrection" where the cops pulled aside the barricades and invited people in, who stayed behind the ropes, and didn't smash the statues. And yes, a small contingent broke down some doors, took pictures of themselves muddying the desks of important nobles, and maybe swiped some stuff like laptops. And 1 got shot by a cop (the other 4 deaths are now known to be just unfortunate medical emergencies). And who are now being hunted down like terrorists.

You're making a false equivalence.

Pat - you're talking about Black Lives Matter versus the Capitol riot -- but political protest hasn't been the subject of the thread, and I certainly never mentioned them. We had been talking about covid, and most recently about police enforcement of masks. Zelen characterized this as the government sending out "stormtroopers with guns to physically and psychologically terrorize innocent people" - and we noted the Logan Ohio tasing incident.

This is a bait and switch - claiming that I'm drawing an equivalence between BLM and the Capitol riot when I never mentioned either, or about political protests at all in this thread.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: This Guy on May 05, 2021, 08:55:26 PM
i get why people have fun pointing out supposed hypocrisy but consider: we are now an openly politically tribal sociey, so yes it is indeed okay when it hurts them and not us, because it's them and not us.
I throw bricks at both sides. And if the second amendment allowed, I'd be throwing nukes. I'm mostly peaceful like that.

it does allow they're just real heavy and hard to throw and it doesn't have any language about planes or launch silos.

that's how Big Nuke gets ya, you buy the war
head and learn you can't get a silo
12th century technology to the rescue!
https://youtu.be/cs8gamnMIS0?t=50

feel like that's gonna end real bad for anything bigger'n a Davy Crockett but maybe if you got like a remote control on the trebuchet.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 09:33:57 PM
Pat - you're talking about Black Lives Matter versus the Capitol riot -- but political protest hasn't been the subject of the thread, and I certainly never mentioned them. We had been talking about covid, and most recently about police enforcement of masks. Zelen characterized this as the government sending out "stormtroopers with guns to physically and psychologically terrorize innocent people" - and we noted the Logan Ohio tasing incident.

This is a bait and switch - claiming that I'm drawing an equivalence between BLM and the Capitol riot when I never mentioned either, or about political protests at all in this thread.
It's not a bait and switch. You were talking about police killing protestors, and people on the other side doing the same and being let go; and vice versa. I did bring in new elements, but you had already broadened the discussion beyond masks.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on May 05, 2021, 09:41:33 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.

Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's property like the Logan Stadium, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with. This wasn't the sidewalk or some public square this was a ticketed event at Logan Stadium and she refused to follow the stadium rules and refused to leave. So yeah, she go her ass tased. Every one of you would have been fine if this were some BLM protestor at Logan Stadium.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 05, 2021, 09:48:37 PM
Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's private property, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with.
<tases Mistwell>
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 05, 2021, 10:47:14 PM
It's been pretty well known for over a year that risk of transmission outdoors, as long as you're not right up on top of other people, is so miniscule that there's no rational reason to argue for restriction on outdoor activities. People ought to be encouraged to go outdoors because getting sunlight and physical activity is way more beneficial to your overall health (& specific defense against the-deadliest-virus-ever) than the risks you face by not locking yourself in and cowering.

The irony of Covid is that people locking down helped increase the spread of the virus in places like nursing homes, which held people in the higher risk categories.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on May 05, 2021, 11:54:58 PM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.

Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's property like the Logan Stadium, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with. This wasn't the sidewalk or some public square this was a ticketed event at Logan Stadium and she refused to follow the stadium rules and refused to leave. So yeah, she go her ass tased. Every one of you would have been fine if this were some BLM protestor at Logan Stadium.

Fuck that. 

Go ahead and show me where I ever supported the Capitol 'breach' of Jan. 6th.  Since there are at least 2 threads about it I'll make it easier for you...It will be quicker to find where I said both groups should be held to the same standard concerning enforcement of the laws.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on May 06, 2021, 12:19:35 AM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.

Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's property like the Logan Stadium, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with. This wasn't the sidewalk or some public square this was a ticketed event at Logan Stadium and she refused to follow the stadium rules and refused to leave. So yeah, she go her ass tased. Every one of you would have been fine if this were some BLM protestor at Logan Stadium.

Fuck that. 

Go ahead and show me where I ever supported the Capitol 'breach' of Jan. 6th.  Since there are at least 2 threads about it I'll make it easier for you...It will be quicker to find where I said both groups should be held to the same standard concerning enforcement of the laws.

Greetings!

Excellent, Moonsweeper! Like when the Mayor of Portland and the AG announced that no charges would be brought against BLM and Antifa, even though buildings were being burned to the ground, people were being hunted down and murdered, while others were beaten and robbed.

How long did that murderous, fiery insurrection go on for? Oh, and not just in Portland, but dozens of cities throughout America?

As I recall, few of these violent, barbarian scum were charged with anything. Most were not even arrested. Some were, but most of those were released within a few hours. So, not a damned thing was done to punish the vast majority of them.

Yeah, Pepperidge Farms remembers. ;D

So, going by the absolutely ruthless and vigorous manner that the righteous FBI pursued justice against BLM and ANTIFA--the folks at the Capitol event--surely, a mostly peaceful protest from what I saw from live video--those folks should be extended the same measure of justice.

Oh, and what about all of the media talking heads--as well as government leaders--that insisted on lecturing America night after night, that the BLM protesters were deeply angry, and America needed to shut up and listen to them, and empathize with them?

Strangely, that is not the message the American people heard--from these same media elites and political leaders--about the protesters at the Capitol on January 6.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on May 06, 2021, 12:35:09 AM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.

Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's property like the Logan Stadium, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with. This wasn't the sidewalk or some public square this was a ticketed event at Logan Stadium and she refused to follow the stadium rules and refused to leave. So yeah, she go her ass tased. Every one of you would have been fine if this were some BLM protestor at Logan Stadium.

Fuck that. 

Go ahead and show me where I ever supported the Capitol 'breach' of Jan. 6th.  Since there are at least 2 threads about it I'll make it easier for you...It will be quicker to find where I said both groups should be held to the same standard concerning enforcement of the laws.

When did I mention the capitol shit? I mentioned Portland, and I mentioned the mask tasing at the stadium. Both are justified tasings (though they did not tase in Portland...they should have). You trespass and refuse to leave private areas and break their rules, you can be tased by the cops. It's one reasonable, potential ramification for your actions.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on May 06, 2021, 01:17:14 AM
Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's private property, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with.
<tastes Mistwell>

That could have gone wrong so easily.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on May 06, 2021, 01:38:26 AM
And yeah, sometimes non-violent protestors get tased.
So you're saying that last summer should have been the Summer of the Taser?

No, no, no Pat...

Last summer was ok because it supported the correct overall political objective. 
It is only a problem when it opposes your political objective.

Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's property like the Logan Stadium, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with. This wasn't the sidewalk or some public square this was a ticketed event at Logan Stadium and she refused to follow the stadium rules and refused to leave. So yeah, she go her ass tased. Every one of you would have been fine if this were some BLM protestor at Logan Stadium.

Fuck that. 

Go ahead and show me where I ever supported the Capitol 'breach' of Jan. 6th.  Since there are at least 2 threads about it I'll make it easier for you...It will be quicker to find where I said both groups should be held to the same standard concerning enforcement of the laws.

When did I mention the capitol shit? I mentioned Portland, and I mentioned the mask tasing at the stadium. Both are justified tasings (though they did not tase in Portland...they should have). You trespass and refuse to leave private areas and break their rules, you can be tased by the cops. It's one reasonable, potential ramification for your actions.

Gee, that makes it even easier since I obviously never said there was anything wrong with that either...

...although I will admit it does help make the legal system in general look bad considering they are letting people guilty of arson off without charges in Portland.  I do consider that a plus.

...I am interested to see if she actually has a medical condition though...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 06, 2021, 07:31:00 AM
Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's private property, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with.
<tases Mistwell>

That could have gone wrong [tases/tastes] so easily.
<tases Shasarak>
<rearranges Mistwell and Shasarak's spasming bodies into an inappropriate position>
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on May 06, 2021, 08:20:44 AM
Fuck that. Some of what happened in Portland definitely could have used some tasing. And not one of you fuckers would have objected to it either. Look, you want to protest on your own property, cool. You want to protest of public property without interfering with others, also cool. But you don't get to protest on someone else's private property, trespass and refuse to leave, without consequences. Getting your ass tased is one of those possible consequences. I know you all get that, when it's not some cause you agree with.
<tases Mistwell>

That could have gone wrong [tases/tastes] so easily.
<tases Shasarak>
<rearranges Mistwell and Shasarak's spasming bodies into an inappropriate position>
So...the Pikachu?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on May 28, 2021, 10:00:02 AM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/after-mexico-city-introduced-ivermectin-plan-covid-hospitalizations-and-deaths-disappeared

So people are actually dying from the vaccine, but therapeutic drugs have worked well in both India and Mexico...some arm chair scientist want to explain this one away?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on May 28, 2021, 12:12:31 PM
Anybody following the latest Fauci scandal? Fauci admitted that prior to the pandemic, his team indirectly provided funding to the Wuhan lab for gain of function research on bat coronaviruses, i.e. making them more contagious, even though that use of the money was specifically prohibited. Combined with the complete lack of evidence in favor of the wet market theory that's been promoted by public health and the mainstream media, and the growing amount of circumstantial evidence that covid-19 was the result of a lab leak in Wuhan, the public face of public health may have been directly responsible for 600,000 American deaths.

Entertainingly, a bill to remove him from his position is named the F.i.R.E.D. Act, for Fauci Incompetence Requires Early Dismissal.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on May 28, 2021, 02:38:56 PM
Anybody following the latest Fauci scandal? Fauci admitted that prior to the pandemic, his team indirectly provided funding to the Wuhan lab for gain of function research on bat coronaviruses, i.e. making them more contagious, even though that use of the money was specifically prohibited. Combined with the complete lack of evidence in favor of the wet market theory that's been promoted by public health and the mainstream media, and the growing amount of circumstantial evidence that covid-19 was the result of a lab leak in Wuhan, the public face of public health may have been directly responsible for 600,000 American deaths.

Entertainingly, a bill to remove him from his position is named the F.i.R.E.D. Act, for Fauci Incompetence Requires Early Dismissal.

  Theatre IMO.  I have a feeling a whole bunch of the people authoring the bill knew, or should have known all about this shit before the 'rona broke out back in Dec 2019.   Rotted to the core.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on May 28, 2021, 03:25:27 PM
Anybody following the latest Fauci scandal?

Tbh I find him to be a bit of an irrelevant figure. If someone were to replace him, it’s business as usual the next morning. One thing I noticed during the worst of the pandemic is that these ‘experts’ leave a lot to desire.

I do love when Jim Jordan gets straight to the point with Fauci though.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 28, 2021, 08:11:47 PM
Anybody following the latest Fauci scandal? Fauci admitted that prior to the pandemic, his team indirectly provided funding to the Wuhan lab for gain of function research on bat coronaviruses, i.e. making them more contagious, even though that use of the money was specifically prohibited. Combined with the complete lack of evidence in favor of the wet market theory that's been promoted by public health and the mainstream media, and the growing amount of circumstantial evidence that covid-19 was the result of a lab leak in Wuhan, the public face of public health may have been directly responsible for 600,000 American deaths.

Entertainingly, a bill to remove him from his position is named the F.i.R.E.D. Act, for Fauci Incompetence Requires Early Dismissal.

This is looking more and more like a situation of government trying to cover their asses and appease a foreign power instead of being straight shooters about the disease situation.
Plus the government leaning into novel vaccinations instead of existing therapies looks like they're trying to take advantage of the pandemic they created to generate as much profit as possible over it.
I thought I couldn't get more disgusted at the whole boondoggle, but here we are.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on May 29, 2021, 12:46:52 PM

The lies of these people killed millions and devastated our most basic freedoms. It's time for accountability.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on May 30, 2021, 12:07:20 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

Imagine ignoring the obvious and killing lots of people because you hate a dude who had a successful reality tv show.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 02, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Anyone seen those Fraudci emails floating around? Tell me again how this shit isn't 100% a CCP bioweapon.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on June 02, 2021, 10:12:59 AM
Anyone seen those Fraudci emails floating around? Tell me again how this shit isn't 100% a CCP bioweapon.

Because both CHY-NA and Trump were right at the same time?  American funded research created the Kung Flu which in typical sloppy Chinese methods got released into the wild.  I do love that the Zerohedge article that got them temp banned from Twitter was linked in an email to Fraudci.

Everyone ready for Lockdown 2.0: H10N3 Electric Boogaloo?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: horsesoldier on June 02, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Why is anything in these emails redacted? I get phone numbers and stuff like that. There should be no block redactions.

Fauci must have some serious dirt on people. Or people have dirt on him and are happy to keep him where he's at. At his age he should be in Florida arguing with neighbors about trees on his property line.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 02, 2021, 11:59:25 AM
Why is anything in these emails redacted? I get phone numbers and stuff like that. There should be no block redactions.

Fauci must have some serious dirt on people. Or people have dirt on him and are happy to keep him where he's at. At his age he should be in Florida arguing with neighbors about trees on his property line.
People probably scrambling for shelter (metaphorically if not literally).

Think about it. 2020 was the Year That Wasn't. We were all sold this line about Covid being Worse Than Cancer, and that we had to mask up and isolate because otherwise we'd all die.

Now you've got word coming out that it wasn't just something that 'appeared'. Whether it was deliberately released, or accidentally, it appears to have been the result of human fuckery. And that could go down a grim road indeed.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on June 02, 2021, 12:27:32 PM
are happy to keep him where he's at

No dirt needed.  There's already his record with AIDS that really should have damned him.  But he's a good little soldier for the Pharma overlords so everyone wants him there to keep the profits rolling.  Although now that he has the book deal the benevolent Pharma overlords probably see the writing on the wall and are getting ready to retire him without giving him a juicy job with them.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 02, 2021, 05:16:55 PM
Fauci will get some heat for this, and he might even lose his job. That alone is a nothing story.

We don't know Fauci's motivations, and may never know all of his motivations, but we can deduce that he wanted to protect himself, his reputation, his relationship with large pharma corporations, and his relationship with China.

More importantly this reveals a problem that's much more widespread than a single bureaucrat in the medical establishment. What this reveals is virtually all these bureaucrats in medical establishments are perfectly willing to lie, give bad advice, sacrifice lives, and take away your freedoms. These places (NIH, NIAID, WHO) are soaking up hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and have an institutional culture of corruption so bad that you basically don't have a single doctor working there with the courage to stand up for decades-long established science or individual rights & medical freedom.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 02, 2021, 05:40:38 PM
Yeah well, it's in black and fucking white the masks do jack shit to stop the virus and only sick people might want to wear one, but yeah well all know how many dumbfucks who screeched "FOLLOW THE SCIENCE" will apologize to anyone who didn't want to wear a mask...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 02, 2021, 05:50:32 PM
Because both CHY-NA and Trump were right at the same time?  American funded research created the Kung Flu which in typical sloppy Chinese methods got released into the wild.

There's an email with the subject line, "Coronovirus bioweapon production method." So it's 100% a CCP bioweapon. And looks like Fraudci and Gates and all the rest of these deep state fucks actually did fund it. But of course, no one cares...because Trump isn't on Twiiter anymore.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 02, 2021, 07:45:36 PM
Because both CHY-NA and Trump were right at the same time?  American funded research created the Kung Flu which in typical sloppy Chinese methods got released into the wild.

There's an email with the subject line, "Coronovirus bioweapon production method." So it's 100% a CCP bioweapon. And looks like Fraudci and Gates and all the rest of these deep state fucks actually did fund it. But of course, no one cares...because Trump isn't on Twiiter anymore.
Hey, it was TOTALLY worth it to stop the Mean Tweets! (/sarc)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 03, 2021, 07:58:46 AM
  I did see the blurb from state media in China, they made a quick mention they will now prepare for Nuclear war with the USA since biden has decided to inquire as to the origins of Covid. 


   LOL, nothing says we are innocent like threatening Nuclear War for asking questions.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 03, 2021, 08:03:22 AM
  But the emails where Fauci says masks dont do shit, and then making a pivot shortly after getting an email from a chinese doctor (which sure looks like it was a way to make some $weet ca$h for Chinese mask makers) telling him to tell people to wear masks.  That fucking guy is dirty, and always has been.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on June 03, 2021, 08:07:28 AM
  But the emails where Fauci says masks dont do shit, and then making a pivot shortly after getting an email from a chinese doctor (which sure looks like it was a way to make some $weet ca$h for Chinese mask makers) telling him to tell people to wear masks.  That fucking guy is dirty, and always has been.

Wasn't about our health to begin with.  It was always about money and control.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 03, 2021, 08:09:02 AM
  But the emails where Fauci says masks dont do shit, and then making a pivot shortly after getting an email from a chinese doctor (which sure looks like it was a way to make some $weet ca$h for Chinese mask makers) telling him to tell people to wear masks.  That fucking guy is dirty, and always has been.

Wasn't about our health to begin with.  It was always about money and control.

   oh I know.  I just feel a little bit of vindication seeing it in black and white after saying it for over a year. 
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Yup. Fauci was a fucking liar.

Sadly, I doubt he'll ever face repercussions.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 03, 2021, 08:25:22 AM
Yup. Fauci was a fucking liar.

Sadly, I doubt he'll ever face repercussions.

  His bad calls destroyed people's lives.  I have a feeling he may have had an effect on some nut on the edge of going postal.  Perhaps they will go postal on him.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 08:48:12 AM
Yup. Fauci was a fucking liar.

Sadly, I doubt he'll ever face repercussions.

  His bad calls destroyed people's lives.  I have a feeling he may have had an effect on some nut on the edge of going postal.  Perhaps they will go postal on him.
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 03, 2021, 08:53:19 AM
Yup. Fauci was a fucking liar.

Sadly, I doubt he'll ever face repercussions.

  His bad calls destroyed people's lives.  I have a feeling he may have had an effect on some nut on the edge of going postal.  Perhaps they will go postal on him.
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

  So?   There would be a direct consequence for him, and if nothing else, I think a summer of riots and violence should teach Americans that violence does work. 
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 09:37:18 AM
Keep in mind that the violence of 2020 was aided and abetted by government institutions.

We've seen how the mandarins react to 'unapproved' protests, after all.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 03, 2021, 10:25:43 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on June 03, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
Keep in mind that the violence of 2020 was aided and abetted by government institutions.

We've seen how the mandarins react to 'unapproved' protests, after all.

Doesn't matter if they all get haircuts at Chez Guillotine.  "Just a little off the top good sir!"
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 10:30:12 AM
Keep in mind that the violence of 2020 was aided and abetted by government institutions.

We've seen how the mandarins react to 'unapproved' protests, after all.

Doesn't matter if they all get haircuts at Chez Guillotine.  "Just a little off the top good sir!"
There is that, yes.

After the first felony, the rest are free.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 10:45:25 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 10:46:45 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.
Until it doesn't.

Playing with the switch labeled 'off' and 'shoot fucking everyone' strikes me as a poor decision. But hey, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 10:52:05 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.
Until it doesn't.

Playing with the switch labeled 'off' and 'shoot fucking everyone' strikes me as a poor decision. But hey, I could be wrong.
And that'll be used to stoke more outrage, take away more rights, and most people will passively accept it all.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 11:07:34 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.
Until it doesn't.

Playing with the switch labeled 'off' and 'shoot fucking everyone' strikes me as a poor decision. But hey, I could be wrong.
And that'll be used to stoke more outrage, take away more rights, and most people will passively accept it all.
Until nobody cares what some mandarin in D.C. thinks and just straight up ignores them.

I'm sure the British thought the colonists would just lie down and take it too -- until they didn't.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 03, 2021, 11:09:34 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Look, the little bitch is back to praising those that would take up arms against their fellows. What a pathetic piece of shit Brad is.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
We may not need guns, in any case.

https://www.axios.com/states-banks-drop-coal-warning-biden-carbon-278bb3fb-2254-41b2-9b94-f986c1c9a3d2.html

Nothing gets people's attention quite like threatening their bottom line.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on June 03, 2021, 11:41:33 AM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Look, the little bitch is back to praising those that would take up arms against their fellows. What a pathetic piece of shit Brad is.

I don't know about what your moral relatavism line is, but I don't really consider people who...

1. Denied medical treatment for political reasons.
2. Lied about and suppressed scientific data.
3. Demanded injection compliance for an Emergency Use treatment while denying people the 'right to try' other medications.
4. Allowed political and other non-medical organizations to dictate health policy to the CDC.

...to be my 'fellows'.  I thought that kind of garbage was brought up and settled at Nuremberg.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 11:59:44 AM
Oh, and one more for Pat:

https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/170779/far-right-terrorist-manhunt-marc-van-ranst-ludivine-dedonder-alexander-de-croo-the-hunt-for-jurgen-conings-a-timeline/

This is in fucking Belgium.

Keep playing with that switch. Fuck around and find out.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 12:00:21 PM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.
Until it doesn't.

Playing with the switch labeled 'off' and 'shoot fucking everyone' strikes me as a poor decision. But hey, I could be wrong.
And that'll be used to stoke more outrage, take away more rights, and most people will passively accept it all.
Until nobody cares what some mandarin in D.C. thinks and just straight up ignores them.

I'm sure the British thought the colonists would just lie down and take it too -- until they didn't.
This is about as well thought and likely to succeed as the Hong Kong protests of last year and the year before. What happened to the brave resistance? Oh, right. They're all dead or in jail. Exactly as everyone with any common sense predicted.

Most people don't even seem to realize that the "protests" of last year were violent riots that involved attacks on 150 federal buildings, more than 30 deaths, and billions of dollars in damage. Only the January 6th "insurrection" matters. The propaganda war is well and thoroughly lost. Hoping for some mass uprising is underpants gnome thinking.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 03, 2021, 12:03:37 PM
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.

Did you actually read what I wrote? A lot of us are done with this whole "comfort over liberty" bullshit. You're in for a rude awakening.

And I can see by your subsequent posts in this thread what you really think...would you have been one of the dudes looking the other way when the Nazis were rounding up the Jews?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 12:07:11 PM
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.

Did you actually read what I wrote? A lot of us are done with this whole "comfort over liberty" bullshit. You're in for a rude awakening.
He's whistling past the graveyard.

My expectation is that you'll see a contingent of states straight up tell the feds to either unfuck themselves or don't bother passing any more imperial decrees, because they won't be given more than a glance before getting circular-filed.

I reiterate this link: https://www.axios.com/states-banks-drop-coal-warning-biden-carbon-278bb3fb-2254-41b2-9b94-f986c1c9a3d2.html

And before someone says 'the feds have the army', here's my response: 'What army? The army they're currently shitting all over for woke points? The army they're running anyone with a scrap of patriotism out of? That army? The army where diversity is more important than gunnery?'

Heh.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 12:07:53 PM
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.

Did you actually read what I wrote? A lot of us are done with this whole "comfort over liberty" bullshit. You're in for a rude awakening.
I read what you wrote. You're just wrong. Minor, scattered resistance that's consistently been spun as terrorism across essentially all mainstream media outlets != a major uprising or a public ground swell. Especially since the mask restrictions have been effectively lifted, most people have gone back to not caring. Vaccine passports could potentially change that, but except for very leftist places like NYC where it's got broad support, it doesn't seem to be more than an idea. An idea which will be used to slowly chip away people's resistance, like everything covid- or peaceful-but-fiery-related.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 12:20:09 PM
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.

Did you actually read what I wrote? A lot of us are done with this whole "comfort over liberty" bullshit. You're in for a rude awakening.

And I can see by your subsequent posts in this thread what you really think...would you have been one of the dudes looking the other way when the Nazis were rounding up the Jews?
Did you read what I actually wrote?

No, you didn't. You just made up shit, because you're another one of those posters who reads shit into other people's posts.

I think this is appalling. I've consistently been one of the strongest advocates for basic human rights on this board. But I warned that the Hong Kong protesters were going to get squashed, and they were. Similarly, in the US, there are zero signs of a mass uprising, and hoping for one is idiotic. The people taking away our rights keep pushing the boundaries, and have been for more than year, and the populace has mostly just rolled over and accepted it. Just consider how many rights we took for granted 18 months ago, which have been erased. The few times when there's been some minor resistance, they stop pushing quite as hard, people settle down, and the window keeps moving and moving.

There will be no mass uprising. The battle on the national stage is lost, and it's lost because the people who support freedom were blind. This has been a generation-long campaign, where they've developed critical theories, then slowly taken over key institutions like academia, the media, big tech, and lower education, and driven out all other points of view. With control over what people see and the upbringing of the next generation, they've solidified their hold, and now control nearly the entire government bureaucracy and even big business.

Hoping for some miraculous revolution is futile. The only way to resist this is at lower levels. States that ignore federal dictates. Local municipalities that ignore states. Your own local school board. Succession movements, maybe, though since the Civil War that idea is so toxic it's probably a non-starter. Decentralization, local politics, and resisting the further accumulation of power by centralized autocrats.

And work on theory and ideas, not out of any hope that they'll be adopted any time in the near future, but because having a solid conceptual framework creates an opportunity when the conditions are ripe. The next time there's a major crisis, say devaluation of the US dollar and hyperinflation, people will look for answers, and may side with those who can provide them.

But there's zero chance of some sudden reversal right now.


Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 01:24:36 PM
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.

Did you actually read what I wrote? A lot of us are done with this whole "comfort over liberty" bullshit. You're in for a rude awakening.

And I can see by your subsequent posts in this thread what you really think...would you have been one of the dudes looking the other way when the Nazis were rounding up the Jews?
Did you read what I actually wrote?

No, you didn't. You just made up shit, because you're another one of those posters who reads shit into other people's posts.

I think this is appalling. I've consistently been one of the strongest advocates for basic human rights on this board. But I warned that the Hong Kong protesters were going to get squashed, and they were. Similarly, in the US, there are zero signs of a mass uprising, and hoping for one is idiotic. The people taking away our rights keep pushing the boundaries, and have been for more than year, and the populace has mostly just rolled over and accepted it. Just consider how many rights we took for granted 18 months ago, which have been erased. The few times when there's been some minor resistance, they stop pushing quite as hard, people settle down, and the window keeps moving and moving.

There will be no mass uprising. The battle on the national stage is lost, and it's lost because the people who support freedom were blind. This has been a generation-long campaign, where they've developed critical theories, then slowly taken over key institutions like academia, the media, big tech, and lower education, and driven out all other points of view. With control over what people see and the upbringing of the next generation, they've solidified their hold, and now control nearly the entire government bureaucracy and even big business.

Hoping for some miraculous revolution is futile. The only way to resist this is at lower levels. States that ignore federal dictates. Local municipalities that ignore states. Your own local school board. Succession movements, maybe, though since the Civil War that idea is so toxic it's probably a non-starter. Decentralization, local politics, and resisting the further accumulation of power by centralized autocrats.

And work on theory and ideas, not out of any hope that they'll be adopted any time in the near future, but because having a solid conceptual framework creates an opportunity when the conditions are ripe. The next time there's a major crisis, say devaluation of the US dollar and hyperinflation, people will look for answers, and may side with those who can provide them.

But there's zero chance of some sudden reversal right now.
Hate to break it to you but we're living in the devaluation of the U.S. dollar right now.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on June 03, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Hate to break it to you but we're living in the devaluation of the U.S. dollar right now.

From what I see, in international trading, the U.S. dollar peaked in 2002, then had a low in 2008, and currently is around in the middle of that range.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency

Inflation is at around 2.6%, which is also about average of what it has been for the past 25 years, and well below the peak of 3.8% in 2008, and nothing like the hyper-inflation we saw around 1980.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/inflation-rate-cpi

I don't think these sort of shifting back and forth are what Pat is referring to. Do you have something to suggest the devaluation is more notable than these?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 03, 2021, 02:26:50 PM
I read what you wrote. You're just wrong. Minor, scattered resistance that's consistently been spun as terrorism across essentially all mainstream media outlets != a major uprising or a public ground swell. Especially since the mask restrictions have been effectively lifted, most people have gone back to not caring. Vaccine passports could potentially change that, but except for very leftist places like NYC where it's got broad support, it doesn't seem to be more than an idea. An idea which will be used to slowly chip away people's resistance, like everything covid- or peaceful-but-fiery-related.

Again, rude awakening...but that's okay, go ahead and believe the MSM.

There will be no mass uprising.

Only if 100% grade A faggots like yourself keep pretending there aren't a lot of people out here fed up with the current bullshit. Seriously, maybe like go outside or something and talk to people? I dunno...maybe you live in some liberal shithole. Out in the sticks things are quite a bit different, and we have a lot of firearms with the ability to use them.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 02:34:16 PM

Hate to break it to you but we're living in the devaluation of the U.S. dollar right now.
Hate to break it to you, but that's why I mentioned it. The boom in home prices, and the stock market. Crypto. Rise in beef and other essentials. It hasn't impacted the CPI massively yet, but we're probably looking at 2-digit inflation if we count the entire economy (including the capital markets).

But that's not hyperinflation, and it's not enough to threaten the dollar's status as the world's reserve currency.

Yet.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 02:34:32 PM
I read what you wrote. You're just wrong. Minor, scattered resistance that's consistently been spun as terrorism across essentially all mainstream media outlets != a major uprising or a public ground swell. Especially since the mask restrictions have been effectively lifted, most people have gone back to not caring. Vaccine passports could potentially change that, but except for very leftist places like NYC where it's got broad support, it doesn't seem to be more than an idea. An idea which will be used to slowly chip away people's resistance, like everything covid- or peaceful-but-fiery-related.

Again, rude awakening...but that's okay, go ahead and believe the MSM.

There will be no mass uprising.

Only if 100% grade A faggots like yourself keep pretending there aren't a lot of people out here fed up with the current bullshit. Seriously, maybe like go outside or something and talk to people? I dunno...maybe you live in some liberal shithole. Out in the sticks things are quite a bit different, and we have a lot of firearms with the ability to use them.
How exactly does any of what I said match up with the mainstream media?

Oh, it doesn't.

You're just a piece of shit.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 02:47:05 PM

Inflation is at around 2.6%, which is also about average of what it has been for the past 25 years, and well below the peak of 3.8% in 2008, and nothing like the hyper-inflation we saw around 1980.
That was relatively high inflation, but it wasn't hyperinflation. Hyperinflation isn't 10% per year, it's thousands of percent per year. Think Venezuela or the Wiemar Republic. High inflation is damaging, but hyperinflation completely destroys the monetary base and takes the economy with it. The problem is there isn't a clear transition between the two. There's no threshold for when high inflation suddenly gets out of control and people start using bills as tinder in their fireplaces. It's largely a psychological event, which makes it very hard to predict. That's why all this monetary manipulation is dangerous.

Edit: Also, what you're calling "inflation" isn't. It's commonly called that, as a shortcut, but every economist understands what you're referring to is only a tiny part of overall inflation. You're talking about the CPI, which measures the fluctuation (rise) in the price of a basket of consumer goods. It does an okay job of measuring the rise in prices of those consumer goods, but it's not even a good measure of the rise in prices to consumers in general, because it doesn't include important parts of their budget, including housing and medical costs. And it completely ignores the capital sector, which is better measured by the rise in the stock market, which has been approaching double digits for a while. The CPI also has numerous technical problems, including how do you measure the price of a PC in 1980 vs. the price of a laptop in 2020? They're barely comparable, and a simple comparison of prices (which is generally how it's done) doesn't include the huge rise in the quality of the product (this badly distorts things like comparisons of standards of living). Inflation, when used correctly, refers to one of two things: 1) The increase in the size of the monetary base (i.e. printing dollars). This gets at the root cause, but is largely a heterodox use of the term today. Or 2), the increase in prices across the whole economy, including things like productivity gains as well as side effects from monetary policy. The CPI only reflects a tiny part of that.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2021, 02:50:20 PM
Cue up Weird Al, 'Everything You Know Is Wrong'.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

And of course, the U.S. dollar is just fine, right?

https://usawatchdog.com/inflation-implosion-hyperinflation-in-2022-john-williams/

In other news, we have always been at war with Oceania.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 03, 2021, 03:00:10 PM
And then he'd be a martyr, and it would be an excuse to take away more basic rights.

You make it sound like that crap is going to work again...we're at the point now that either politicians get into their fucking lanes or bullets will start flying. And that isn't just hyperbole; where I live anyone with a brain is ready to do whatever it takes to oust tyranny.
Passivity and comfort will win out over internet hyperbole.
Until it doesn't.

Playing with the switch labeled 'off' and 'shoot fucking everyone' strikes me as a poor decision. But hey, I could be wrong.
And that'll be used to stoke more outrage, take away more rights, and most people will passively accept it all.
Until nobody cares what some mandarin in D.C. thinks and just straight up ignores them.

I'm sure the British thought the colonists would just lie down and take it too -- until they didn't.
This is about as well thought and likely to succeed as the Hong Kong protests of last year and the year before. What happened to the brave resistance? Oh, right. They're all dead or in jail. Exactly as everyone with any common sense predicted.

Most people don't even seem to realize that the "protests" of last year were violent riots that involved attacks on 150 federal buildings, more than 30 deaths, and billions of dollars in damage. Only the January 6th "insurrection" matters. The propaganda war is well and thoroughly lost. Hoping for some mass uprising is underpants gnome thinking.

  You are 100 percent right.   This is the whole reason I have decided leaving is a flat out better deal.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DELETE THIS on June 03, 2021, 03:04:37 PM
How exactly does any of what I said match up with the mainstream media?

Oh, it doesn't.

You're just a piece of shit.

Grade. A. Faggot. Confirmed.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 03, 2021, 03:44:51 PM
I read what you wrote. You're just wrong. Minor, scattered resistance that's consistently been spun as terrorism across essentially all mainstream media outlets != a major uprising or a public ground swell. Especially since the mask restrictions have been effectively lifted, most people have gone back to not caring. Vaccine passports could potentially change that, but except for very leftist places like NYC where it's got broad support, it doesn't seem to be more than an idea. An idea which will be used to slowly chip away people's resistance, like everything covid- or peaceful-but-fiery-related.

Again, rude awakening...but that's okay, go ahead and believe the MSM.

There will be no mass uprising.

Only if 100% grade A faggots like yourself keep pretending there aren't a lot of people out here fed up with the current bullshit. Seriously, maybe like go outside or something and talk to people? I dunno...maybe you live in some liberal shithole. Out in the sticks things are quite a bit different, and we have a lot of firearms with the ability to use them.
How exactly does any of what I said match up with the mainstream media?

Oh, it doesn't.

You're just a piece of shit.
Wow. Pat and I agree on something.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on June 03, 2021, 03:56:27 PM
Greetings!

Well, more of Fauci's fraud, lies, and bullshit have evidently been revealed, as well as the sniveling, cock-sucking, corrupt MSM.

What a surprise! *laughing* Many of us here have been very ceptical from the beginning, and are increasingly being proven entirely justified.

Most of this whole China Virus has been about making money, corruption, gaining more power and control, and accelerating changes in society and the economy by the elites and their corporate allies, to better mold everything into a more easily controlled mass.

I'm not surprised in the slightest. Our society is so insane and corrupt, all of it is going to cause the Fall to be so much more painful, and disastrous.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 03, 2021, 07:50:01 PM
Again, Fauci losing his job is just theatrics. A fake play put on to distract people from real accountability, which would actually involve gutting funding for institutions and potentially putting people in prison for lying & covering up relevant facts. (And probably being involved in creating the whole crisis to boot.)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Spinachcat on June 03, 2021, 10:28:17 PM
I agree with Brad and Pat.

There's never been a moment in my lifetime more in need of Americans rising violently to destroy our internal enemies and save the nation....but I've also never seen Americans act more like sheep than 2020, nor do I see that changing.

So I do believe there will be an uprising...met with mass apathy.

However, I don't know if that uprising will be violent. I hope it will manifest as a realization that its time for a National Divorce because there's no longer a shared culture. But I am also aware that even peaceful Secessionists would have to overcome a mountain of apathy. 

Brad is right that the anger is real, just as Pat is right that the apathy is real. The piece that none of us know is whether anger or apathy will win the day. We can throw "stats" (aka MSM lies) and personal observations at each other, but until the rubber meets the road, we truly don't know.

What I do believe is happening is Red vs. Blue state actions are ramping up. AKA, the red states are taking action to become "more red" and blue states are becoming "more blue" with their policies which deepens the cultural divide.

Last month, we heard about several Oregon counties seeking to secede from Oregon and join Idaho, and apparently it will be on the ballot. This week, we heard about Buckhead - the rich honky part of Atlanta - seeking to secede from Atlanta and become its own city.

Whether these actions succeed and spawn more "soft secessions" remains to be seen. Also, we have no idea whether the success (or failure) of these actions will accelerate us toward a National Divorce or dilute that energy.

Or we'll see a race war erupt into a civil war or collapse into communism that catches the masses unaware until its too late. Plenty of historical examples of sudden changes of fortune. 
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2021, 10:51:51 PM
I think apathy would be a good alternative. Stop treating stalemates as existential threats that ruin everything. Learn to let it go, and stop trying to force one set of rules on everyone. Let people do their own things.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 04, 2021, 04:02:31 AM
I think apathy would be a good alternative. Stop treating stalemates as existential threats that ruin everything. Learn to let it go, and stop trying to force one set of rules on everyone. Let people do their own things.
  Do you have young kids?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on June 04, 2021, 04:22:24 AM
I think apathy would be a good alternative. Stop treating stalemates as existential threats that ruin everything. Learn to let it go, and stop trying to force one set of rules on everyone. Let people do their own things.

Except the current situation is not a stalemate. 

If it were the MSM would be treating everyone equally, the Feds would be treating all of the rioters equally, and people wouldn't be physically or financially attacked for their political opinions.

It won't end with apathy because one side has tasted blood and found that violence and force works.  History is one continuous story of people like that never 'voluntarily' ceding their power to reach an amicable settlement.  Look at the mask mandates for an example. 

Secession won't ever be allowed on any real scale because it cedes revenue for the 'state'.  Since money is a printed fiat, the amount supposedly 'sent' to the area doesn't matter, only what the 'state' receives...and the 'state' never cedes financial power.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 04, 2021, 10:49:26 AM
I think apathy would be a good alternative. Stop treating stalemates as existential threats that ruin everything. Learn to let it go, and stop trying to force one set of rules on everyone. Let people do their own things.

Except the current situation is not a stalemate. 
That wasn't a general statement about the relative position of different sides. I'm referring to attitude and tactics. The modern tendency to treat a failure to get your way as an existential threat.

Not being able to pass a bill doesn't doom everyone to perdition, it just means people are heavily divided. Let it go. If you can't get a broad consensus (and no, 51% is not a consensus), let people respond in their own way, instead of doing everything possible to force one (your) solution on them.

When everything is treated as a crisis that can only be solved by new legislation, it justifies the worst possible behavior in everyone involved. Anything goes, any opposition is the Enemy and must be eliminated by any means necessary, and the resultant laws are inevitably shit because there's no time for review, and the usual suspects will pack them full of all kinds of other crap they couldn't get passed in normal times.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 04, 2021, 11:23:35 AM
The biggest thing is to stop being complacent.

A lot of people are happy to keep buying products from Woke creators & vendors, even though the Woke ideology is actively anti-White, actively bigoted against all races that don't parrot Woke-ism, actively pro-violence to achieve its ends, it's actively pro-psychological abuse, pro-sexual abuse, and pro-Totalitarian control over every word, act, or thought.

Spending money, or more importantly time and attention, on products that are openly funding or promoting violent & abusive behavior is wrong, and complacency now is going to be a very real cost in blood (whether for you or your children) later.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 04, 2021, 11:39:53 AM
The biggest thing is to stop being complacent.

A lot of people are happy to keep buying products from Woke creators & vendors, even though the Woke ideology is actively anti-White, actively bigoted against all races that don't parrot Woke-ism, actively pro-violence to achieve its ends, it's actively pro-psychological abuse, pro-sexual abuse, and pro-Totalitarian control over every word, act, or thought.

Spending money, or more importantly time and attention, on products that are openly funding or promoting violent & abusive behavior is wrong, and complacency now is going to be a very real cost in blood (whether for you or your children) later.
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 04, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

FlAtTeN tHe CuRvE!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 04, 2021, 11:56:22 AM
The biggest thing is to stop being complacent.

A lot of people are happy to keep buying products from Woke creators & vendors, even though the Woke ideology is actively anti-White, actively bigoted against all races that don't parrot Woke-ism, actively pro-violence to achieve its ends, it's actively pro-psychological abuse, pro-sexual abuse, and pro-Totalitarian control over every word, act, or thought.

Spending money, or more importantly time and attention, on products that are openly funding or promoting violent & abusive behavior is wrong, and complacency now is going to be a very real cost in blood (whether for you or your children) later.
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

 I dont know that it is delusional to expect problems down the road for one's children.  By the same token it is predictive and no one can predict the future.  Or is it delusional to say that Woke Ideology has shown it self to be actively anti-white? 

   I think the good news is I think it would be hard to run into a person on the street that is as aggressively woke as some loud people on the internet.   The bad news is some of these sorts seem to be finding their way into places where they can actually make policy.   Expecting trouble down the road with the tone as it is now... constantly amplifying; I do not think is a reach.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 04, 2021, 02:03:31 PM
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.


On a fun note:

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on June 04, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
The biggest thing is to stop being complacent.

A lot of people are happy to keep buying products from Woke creators & vendors, even though the Woke ideology is actively anti-White, actively bigoted against all races that don't parrot Woke-ism, actively pro-violence to achieve its ends, it's actively pro-psychological abuse, pro-sexual abuse, and pro-Totalitarian control over every word, act, or thought.

Spending money, or more importantly time and attention, on products that are openly funding or promoting violent & abusive behavior is wrong, and complacency now is going to be a very real cost in blood (whether for you or your children) later.

Greetings!

Excellent, Zelen. Very true. The fucking nutty, Marxist Woke BS needs to be stopped hard.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 04, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.


On a fun note:

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/
Please point out anyone that is advocating violence, imprisonment, or enslavement of you or your children. No, don't point it out to me; point it out to the police (unless your delusion is that the police are the instruments of the violence, imprisonment, or enslavement you speak of). If you have some evidence to back up what you're saying, they'll take care of it the right way. OTOH, if it's just your delusions, make sure to tell them you're looking at lashing out at those you feel are against you so that you can get the help you need for your mental illness.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on June 04, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.
   I think the good news is I think it would be hard to run into a person on the street that is as aggressively woke as some loud people on the internet.   The bad news is some of these sorts seem to be finding their way into places where they can actually make policy.   Expecting trouble down the road with the tone as it is now... constantly amplifying; I do not think is a reach.

Are we talking about online rhetoric?

People say extreme shit online all the time. That long predates current trends. SHARK regularly talks about how Marxists are all scum who need to be bashed in the head, for example.

I agree that it could potentially get worse, but I also think that the vast majority of online shit-stirrers have zero interest in actual physical violence.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 04, 2021, 06:05:36 PM
What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.
   I think the good news is I think it would be hard to run into a person on the street that is as aggressively woke as some loud people on the internet.   The bad news is some of these sorts seem to be finding their way into places where they can actually make policy.   Expecting trouble down the road with the tone as it is now... constantly amplifying; I do not think is a reach.

Are we talking about online rhetoric?

People say extreme shit online all the time. That long predates current trends. SHARK regularly talks about how Marxists are all scum who need to be bashed in the head, for example.

I agree that it could potentially get worse, but I also think that the vast majority of online shit-stirrers have zero interest in actual physical violence.

    Putting boys in girl's locker rooms is pretty frigging extreme. 

   I also do think there are extreme shit stirrers who certainly are not interested in violence themselves.  But oh, they sure would be happy if they could get the ATF or the good old "Homeland Security" department to carry out some violence for them.   I mean, when the biggest threat to public safety is White Supremacist groups (I mean, who hasn't watched members of these groups KO'ing Asians in hate crimes all over the country in big cities) and there is a TON of rhetoric around that nonsense (Which seems to completely ignore violent crime stats) I think people might just hear what they want to hear either way.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on June 05, 2021, 03:41:37 PM
Putting boys in girl's locker rooms is pretty frigging extreme. 

As the father of two daughters this is where we're getting into blood eagle territory.  Women need a safe space away from men.  Always have always will.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 05, 2021, 05:48:34 PM
Putting boys in girl's locker rooms is pretty frigging extreme. 

As the father of two daughters this is where we're getting into blood eagle territory.  Women need a safe space away from men.  Always have always will.

This is where Trans activism is starting to butt up against primal human instincts to protect the wimminfolk. While I'm empathetic to Trans issues, I also think that not considering how this will push certain social/biological buttons is foolish and short sighted.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 06, 2021, 12:57:46 AM
Putting boys in girl's locker rooms is pretty frigging extreme. 

As the father of two daughters this is where we're getting into blood eagle territory.  Women need a safe space away from men.  Always have always will.

This is where Trans activism is starting to butt up against primal human instincts to protect the wimminfolk. While I'm empathetic to Trans issues, I also think that not considering how this will push certain social/biological buttons is foolish and short sighted.
Not just that.

The 'terf' slur grew out of radfems taking exception to having such in their fem-only spaces. My inclination, for the record, was that while yes, people with full on body-dysphoria were not the problem, the issue was: how do you sort those folks out from some lowlife or male feminist creep who's figured out the best social camouflage he needs to sneak into the ladies' room?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 06, 2021, 06:28:34 AM
Putting boys in girl's locker rooms is pretty frigging extreme. 

As the father of two daughters this is where we're getting into blood eagle territory.  Women need a safe space away from men.  Always have always will.

This is where Trans activism is starting to butt up against primal human instincts to protect the wimminfolk. While I'm empathetic to Trans issues, I also think that not considering how this will push certain social/biological buttons is foolish and short sighted.

  I can not say I am empathetic to trans issues in the form they are presented to me.  I think it is mental illness.  I am however tolerant to a degree.  I think lots of people are.  I think as you mention though, buttons pushed in this case are way over the line for tolerance and now are demanding full throated acceptance from me.  Not going to happen.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: shuddemell on June 06, 2021, 10:33:37 AM
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.


On a fun note:

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/
Please point out anyone that is advocating violence, imprisonment, or enslavement of you or your children. No, don't point it out to me; point it out to the police (unless your delusion is that the police are the instruments of the violence, imprisonment, or enslavement you speak of). If you have some evidence to back up what you're saying, they'll take care of it the right way. OTOH, if it's just your delusions, make sure to tell them you're looking at lashing out at those you feel are against you so that you can get the help you need for your mental illness.

You ever heard of Professor George Ciccariello-Maher - "All I want for Christmas is white genocide" or Professor Tommy Curry? It's happening, and has been for some time, you may want to pull your head out of the sand.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 06, 2021, 11:57:54 AM
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.


On a fun note:

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/
Please point out anyone that is advocating violence, imprisonment, or enslavement of you or your children. No, don't point it out to me; point it out to the police (unless your delusion is that the police are the instruments of the violence, imprisonment, or enslavement you speak of). If you have some evidence to back up what you're saying, they'll take care of it the right way. OTOH, if it's just your delusions, make sure to tell them you're looking at lashing out at those you feel are against you so that you can get the help you need for your mental illness.

You ever heard of Professor George Ciccariello-Maher - "All I want for Christmas is white genocide" or Professor Tommy Curry? It's happening, and has been for some time, you may want to pull your head out of the sand.
If you believe that they are genuinely threatening, please report them to the police. Tell us how that goes.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 06, 2021, 01:11:01 PM
Hey Happyderp, what do you do when the police do nothing? You know, like they do in Portland or Seattle?

What then?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 06, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
Hey Happyderp, what do you do when the police do nothing? You know, like they do in Portland or Seattle?

What then?
When they do nothing about what? Be more specific.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on June 06, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
Hey Happyderp, what do you do when the police do nothing? You know, like they do in Portland or Seattle?

What then?

Greetings!

Yeah, Ghostmaker! Some people are just delusional fucking morons with their heads shoved so far up their asses they will never see daylight.

Just in the news today are at least one story--and I think I have seen more--where some psychiatrist back east was giving a presentation to a medical school where this fucking hate-filled racist cunt talked about fantasizing about unloading a revolver into the head of the first white person she encountered.

Yeah, these cock-sucking Marxists and racists are really feeling like they can be themselves! More and more of them are talking with glee about the joys of killing WHITE PEOPLE.

Not Criminals.

Not Foreign Enemies.

Not Hate-Filled Ideologies Embraced by Traitors, Like Marxism.

No. They are gleefully talking about murdering WHITE PEOPLE simply for the colour of their skin.

But there are cock-sucking jackasses that tell themselves and others, "No, no. Nothing to be concerned about here. That's all hyperbole and internet posturing". Show me the proof! It's right there in front of them, but they are too stupid and busy sucking on Marxist cock to fucking see it.

Well, report them to the police, they whine.

Again, they are in pathetic denial. Everywhere in society it is being embraced that it is all good and fine to talk of killing WHITE PEOPLE, and to threaten doing so in public. Not just on the fucking internet, but at schools, colleges, news programs, in newspapers, articles, and books, and the streetcorner down the street.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 06, 2021, 07:36:41 PM
The schtick HappyDaze is playing is just tediously dishonest. Yes, it's totally normal and not alarming at all when activists, bureaucrats, politicians, professors, and other assorted individuals who are in the most powerful institutions in the world, engage in, fund, and tolerate extremist rhetoric that encourages violence & abuse.

Meanwhile the violent mobs these people openly endorse continue on. Nothing to see here, move along.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 06, 2021, 07:53:35 PM
The schtick HappyDaze is playing is just tediously dishonest. Yes, it's totally normal and not alarming at all when activists, bureaucrats, politicians, professors, and other assorted individuals who are in the most powerful institutions in the world, engage in, fund, and tolerate extremist rhetoric that encourages violence & abuse.

Meanwhile the violent mobs these people openly endorse continue on. Nothing to see here, move along.
Yes, the tired-ass tactic of the little bitches on RPGsite to call someone they don't agree with dishonest. Couldn't have seen that one coming.

The problem many of you have is not being able to sort internet bullshit from reality. For all of the internet bullshit out there, there's a very small amount of it that actually become real action--and the police most certainly will step in if that is likely. Hilariously, so many of the crazy-ass hard right morons here say the police won't help them...much like the hard left. Maybe it's because the police have to worry about real problems, not idiotic internet tribalism.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on June 06, 2021, 09:40:28 PM
The schtick HappyDaze is playing is just tediously dishonest. Yes, it's totally normal and not alarming at all when activists, bureaucrats, politicians, professors, and other assorted individuals who are in the most powerful institutions in the world, engage in, fund, and tolerate extremist rhetoric that encourages violence & abuse.

Meanwhile the violent mobs these people openly endorse continue on. Nothing to see here, move along.

Greetings!

Absolutely right, Zelen!!

Here is some humourous commentary by Salty Cracker on precisely our discussion.

So much hard truth for the weak-minded idiots to fucking choke down!

Just imagine if YOU went to some university and held the same discussion and commentary that this stupid cunt did, but featured black people, Hispanics, or Asians. Fucking disgusting and mind boggling.

But of course, nothing happens to this bitch. Somehow, I don't think things would go the same way if a white person held such a discussion at a university.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: shuddemell on June 07, 2021, 09:40:12 AM
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.


On a fun note:

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/
Please point out anyone that is advocating violence, imprisonment, or enslavement of you or your children. No, don't point it out to me; point it out to the police (unless your delusion is that the police are the instruments of the violence, imprisonment, or enslavement you speak of). If you have some evidence to back up what you're saying, they'll take care of it the right way. OTOH, if it's just your delusions, make sure to tell them you're looking at lashing out at those you feel are against you so that you can get the help you need for your mental illness.

You ever heard of Professor George Ciccariello-Maher - "All I want for Christmas is white genocide" or Professor Tommy Curry? It's happening, and has been for some time, you may want to pull your head out of the sand.
If you believe that they are genuinely threatening, please report them to the police. Tell us how that goes.

So, only if the police do something is it a concern? You knob, they are writing academic papers on why violence against whites is not only acceptable but encouraged. This is their process of normalization. You know it and choose to ignore it. Fine, but I take these abominable bigots at their word and have no intent of going gently into that good night.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 07, 2021, 10:18:53 AM
I'll take complacency over your delusions anytime.

What's delusional? Woke people openly advocate for violence, imprisonment and enslavement of people they don't like and abusing their children. Is it delusional to see that rhetoric and believe that people mean what they say?

We don't even have to operate in a hypothetical future world here. It's all happening now. I'd love it if reasonable voices prevailed, but reasonable voices are already intimidated into silence & inaction.


On a fun note:

https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/
Please point out anyone that is advocating violence, imprisonment, or enslavement of you or your children. No, don't point it out to me; point it out to the police (unless your delusion is that the police are the instruments of the violence, imprisonment, or enslavement you speak of). If you have some evidence to back up what you're saying, they'll take care of it the right way. OTOH, if it's just your delusions, make sure to tell them you're looking at lashing out at those you feel are against you so that you can get the help you need for your mental illness.

You ever heard of Professor George Ciccariello-Maher - "All I want for Christmas is white genocide" or Professor Tommy Curry? It's happening, and has been for some time, you may want to pull your head out of the sand.
If you believe that they are genuinely threatening, please report them to the police. Tell us how that goes.

So, only if the police do something is it a concern? You knob, they are writing academic papers on why violence against whites is not only acceptable but encouraged. This is their process of normalization. You know it and choose to ignore it. Fine, but I take these abominable bigots at their word and have no intent of going gently into that good night.
They are always shocked that we treat their words at face value.

If a man calls for my ruination and/or death, expect me to be very interested in him.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on June 07, 2021, 10:43:40 AM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 07, 2021, 12:39:52 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: shuddemell on June 07, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
Why? Do you find it genuinely threatening? Call the police and tell us how that goes.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 07, 2021, 03:08:23 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
Why? Do you find it genuinely threatening? Call the police and tell us how that goes.
I didn't say I found it threatening.  I asked him to clarify his statement.  Why so adversarial?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on June 07, 2021, 05:30:10 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
Why? Do you find it genuinely threatening? Call the police and tell us how that goes.
I didn't say I found it threatening.  I asked him to clarify his statement.  Why so adversarial?

You think being asked to call the police is adversarial?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 07, 2021, 06:19:24 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
Why? Do you find it genuinely threatening? Call the police and tell us how that goes.
I didn't say I found it threatening.  I asked him to clarify his statement.  Why so adversarial?

You think being asked to call the police is adversarial?
You assume he is thinking, as opposed to being a spastic threadshitter.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 07, 2021, 06:39:18 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
Why? Do you find it genuinely threatening? Call the police and tell us how that goes.
I didn't say I found it threatening.  I asked him to clarify his statement.  Why so adversarial?

You think being asked to call the police is adversarial?
You assume he is thinking, as opposed to being a spastic threadshitter.
Coming from you, that description is meaningless.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 07, 2021, 08:48:11 PM
Some really fascinating testimony recently in the Texas Senate, including ER doctor testifying he's seeing more patients now from the Jab than from C-19, VAERS numbers, and apparently there's some studies showing it's a bad idea for previously infected people to be vaccinated.

https://tlcsenate.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=49&clip_id=15926
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on June 07, 2021, 09:17:09 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on June 07, 2021, 10:23:06 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.
Gotcha. No real escalation then, just more of the same old.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on June 07, 2021, 11:46:41 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.

How do you implement systemic white privilege with that attitude?

Those minorities aint gonna oppress themselves.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on June 08, 2021, 10:27:00 AM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.

Pretty much.  There's a reason why we're losing the culture war and all the institutions.  Trust the plan dude!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 22, 2021, 11:04:15 PM
Did everyone who dismissed the lab leak hypothesis as a conspiracy theory either fund or work with the Wuhan lab?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9712997/Google-funded-research-carried-Wuhan-linked-scientist-Peter-Daszaks-charity.html
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 23, 2021, 07:57:32 AM
Did everyone who dismissed the lab leak hypothesis as a conspiracy theory either fund or work with the Wuhan lab?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9712997/Google-funded-research-carried-Wuhan-linked-scientist-Peter-Daszaks-charity.html
In a sane world that motherfucker would have some 'splainin' to do. He was involved up to his eyeballs right along with Fauci.

There's some folks who owe people apologies over 'the discredited Wuhan lab origin'. They'll never apologize, of course.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2021, 08:13:41 AM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.
Gotcha. No real escalation then, just more of the same old.

  The only people who will overtly push a real escalation, especially with strangers around, are fucking Feds.  Now, what some people may be gathering and talking about as they run their courses in the woods and bring in combat vets to work with them on their fitness and shooting, who knows?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 23, 2021, 09:55:40 AM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.
Gotcha. No real escalation then, just more of the same old.

  The only people who will overtly push a real escalation, especially with strangers around, are fucking Feds.  Now, what some people may be gathering and talking about as they run their courses in the woods and bring in combat vets to work with them on their fitness and shooting, who knows?
It's not JUST 'some people'. Whole states are bucking the feds at this point. Arizona told AG Garland if he tried to interfere with their audit, he'd be tossed in a cell. Missouri declared itself a 2A sanctuary state and told the DOJ to go fuck themselves. Texas and Florida are needling the Biden misadministration endlessly.

It's one thing to bag one guy, or a group of yahoos in a cabin or compound. It is entirely another to try to fuck with a recalcitrant state, especially as the retard left stupidly set the precedent when they wouldn't let Trump bring 'immigration sanctuary' cities to heel. Oops.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2021, 10:36:16 AM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.
What exactly are you suggesting?
As a middle class straight white conservative man, I think he's suggesting we'll all make lots of angry posts on the interwebs.
I mean that's what I do.
Gotcha. No real escalation then, just more of the same old.

  The only people who will overtly push a real escalation, especially with strangers around, are fucking Feds.  Now, what some people may be gathering and talking about as they run their courses in the woods and bring in combat vets to work with them on their fitness and shooting, who knows?
It's not JUST 'some people'. Whole states are bucking the feds at this point. Arizona told AG Garland if he tried to interfere with their audit, he'd be tossed in a cell. Missouri declared itself a 2A sanctuary state and told the DOJ to go fuck themselves. Texas and Florida are needling the Biden misadministration endlessly.

It's one thing to bag one guy, or a group of yahoos in a cabin or compound. It is entirely another to try to fuck with a recalcitrant state, especially as the retard left stupidly set the precedent when they wouldn't let Trump bring 'immigration sanctuary' cities to heel. Oops.

  I agree, but until I see a Cliven Bundy level of force shown to repel over stepping, I am not so sure it is anything but talk.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 30, 2021, 08:38:24 PM
Vaccine side effects are not required to be reported by OSHA.



Jabs mandatory. Data on vaccines, eh.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: oggsmash on June 30, 2021, 08:58:09 PM
  I think I am going to let that public trial play out before me or the kids take that shot.  3 years and we can make a call.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Spinachcat on June 30, 2021, 09:12:39 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.

They did fuck around! And they found out middle class white men do nothing.

Stole an election too. Trump voters response? Grumpy grumbles online.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 30, 2021, 09:14:54 PM
  I think I am going to let that public trial play out before me or the kids take that shot.  3 years and we can make a call.
Have you seen Bret Weinstein's "How to Save the World in Three Easy Steps"? He's an evolutionary biologist, and he has an extensive (3 hour) talk with Robert Malone, the inventor mRNA vaccines (and another guy Kirsch who won't stop interrupting). They go into the negative effects of the vaccines in extensive and very technical detail. The video was banned by YouTube because being the creator of the thing you're talking about apparently doesn't make you more of an authority than anonymous Google employees. While it has been banned, people keep uploading it again, so you should be able to find it if you look.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Spinachcat on June 30, 2021, 09:17:45 PM
If a man calls for my ruination and/or death, expect me to be very interested in him.

Enjoy. For diversity, this time it's a woman...named Spectre.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 30, 2021, 09:31:26 PM
If a man calls for my ruination and/or death, expect me to be very interested in him.

Enjoy. For diversity, this time it's a woman...named Spectre.


To quote Doc Holliday in Tombstone, 'I'm your huckleberry'.

Stupid bitch should spend some time in a non-Western society, see how she's treated.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on June 30, 2021, 10:21:39 PM
If a man calls for my ruination and/or death, expect me to be very interested in him.

Enjoy. For diversity, this time it's a woman...named Spectre.


To quote Doc Holliday in Tombstone, 'I'm your huckleberry'.

Stupid bitch should spend some time in a non-Western society, see how she's treated.

Greetings!

No doubt some diverse savages would gang-grape her nine ways to Sunday, gut her like a pig, and toss her naked body into a roadside ditch. That is what happens to *many* western, naïve, feminist moron women that travel the world beyond their cozy, safe doorsteps.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on June 30, 2021, 11:00:09 PM
Revenge rape-porn. Charming.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on June 30, 2021, 11:31:31 PM
Lots of scaremongering over the "Delta" variant is going around, simultaneous with more mainstream acceptance of things we've known for over a year now (e.g. Covid was created in a lab, population-wide lockdowns don't work, masks don't work).

Are people going to accept being locked down again in the face of a virus that's mutating (as they all do) to be less deadly? In the face of strong evidence that the measures that are being imposed do nothing & have net negative effects?

Worthwhile read: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-war-on-reality-gutentag
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 01, 2021, 12:14:56 AM
I told ya all, triple masking or bust!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on July 01, 2021, 12:43:29 AM
Revenge rape-porn. Charming.

Greetings!

Revenge rape-porn, Pat? I wouldn't know anything about that. I was just reminded of a program I saw just the other night talking about all of these naïve, liberal, pro-immigrant activist women--mostly from Western Europe--that many of them had their lives tragically and brutally ended in the manner I described while they traveled to Somalia, Algeria, other parts of Africa, the Middle East, all in pursuit of their idealistic work. All of the women in the program--and some men as well--were all brutally raped and killed by precisely the kinds of people from nations they are such champions of immigration for.

Several of the women described in the program were also from Sweden, just like the woman in the video here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 01, 2021, 03:04:33 AM
  I think I am going to let that public trial play out before me or the kids take that shot.  3 years and we can make a call.
Have you seen Bret Weinstein's "How to Save the World in Three Easy Steps"? He's an evolutionary biologist, and he has an extensive (3 hour) talk with Robert Malone, the inventor mRNA vaccines (and another guy Kirsch who won't stop interrupting). They go into the negative effects of the vaccines in extensive and very technical detail. The video was banned by YouTube because being the creator of the thing you're talking about apparently doesn't make you more of an authority than anonymous Google employees. While it has been banned, people keep uploading it again, so you should be able to find it if you look.

Yeah, I really wanted to watch that whole thing, but Kirsch just keeps talking over everyone and the complaining that people are talking over him. I'd love for Brett to have Dr Malone back on without Skwaky McWakwak.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on July 01, 2021, 03:37:45 AM
Greetings!

Yeah! Brett Weinstein is a brilliant guy, too. I've seen some videos and interviews with him before.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 01, 2021, 08:03:05 AM
Revenge rape-porn. Charming.
He's not wrong. Women are seen as chattel in many non-Western societies.

Not all cultures are equal, and some are just garbage.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 01, 2021, 08:48:05 AM
  I think I am going to let that public trial play out before me or the kids take that shot.  3 years and we can make a call.
Have you seen Bret Weinstein's "How to Save the World in Three Easy Steps"? He's an evolutionary biologist, and he has an extensive (3 hour) talk with Robert Malone, the inventor mRNA vaccines (and another guy Kirsch who won't stop interrupting). They go into the negative effects of the vaccines in extensive and very technical detail. The video was banned by YouTube because being the creator of the thing you're talking about apparently doesn't make you more of an authority than anonymous Google employees. While it has been banned, people keep uploading it again, so you should be able to find it if you look.

Yeah, I really wanted to watch that whole thing, but Kirsch just keeps talking over everyone and the complaining that people are talking over him. I'd love for Brett to have Dr Malone back on without Skwaky McWakwak.
Took me a couple tries to get through it, because of Kirsch's complete lack of self-awareness. Malone comes across as a class act, though.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: KingCheops on July 01, 2021, 12:49:24 PM
All I can say is fuck around with middle class white men and find out.

They did fuck around! And they found out middle class white men do nothing.

Stole an election too. Trump voters response? Grumpy grumbles online.

Uh no they haven't yet.  Stealing the election doesn't mean jack shit.  The individual States are proving this.  Until things start affecting their families financially or socially they haven't been fucked with.  Stuff like CRT in schools, chicks with dicks molesting their daughters in the girls locker rooms, and massive inflation they haven't been fucked with yet.

Edit:  had to add that I need to keep talking down my younger, more radical friend because he's disappointed the 6th wasn't the revolution and he wants it now.  Conservatives need something that actually affects them to rise up.  It's part of being Conservative -- until your local social order is broken you don't do anything.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 03, 2021, 06:46:27 PM
Interview with Dr. Robert Malone:
https://odysee.com/@AlisonMorrow:6/FULL-MALONE-INTRVW:4
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 05, 2021, 11:00:37 AM
Lots of scaremongering over the "Delta" variant is going around, simultaneous with more mainstream acceptance of things we've known for over a year now (e.g. Covid was created in a lab, population-wide lockdowns don't work, masks don't work).

Are people going to accept being locked down again in the face of a virus that's mutating (as they all do) to be less deadly? In the face of strong evidence that the measures that are being imposed do nothing & have net negative effects?

Worthwhile read: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-war-on-reality-gutentag

Of course they'll accept it, along with a vocal minority who will cheer their own oppression. The people are cowardly sheep, as they've proven time and again, and their masks are their cherished symbol of their oppression.

The Delta variant is doing what all viruses do - become more contagious, but less deadly. With one exception - it remains just as deadly for people who've been "vaccinated", likely because of antibody dependent enhancement. Watch deaths amongst the vaccinated surge in the autumn when the normal respiratory bugs come knocking.

Look out for them trying to blame the unvaccinated, somehow, for making people who allowed themselves to be subjected to experimental gene therapy get ill.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 08, 2021, 02:57:03 PM
Lots of scaremongering over the "Delta" variant is going around, simultaneous with more mainstream acceptance of things we've known for over a year now (e.g. Covid was created in a lab, population-wide lockdowns don't work, masks don't work).

Are people going to accept being locked down again in the face of a virus that's mutating (as they all do) to be less deadly? In the face of strong evidence that the measures that are being imposed do nothing & have net negative effects?

Worthwhile read: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-war-on-reality-gutentag

Of course they'll accept it, along with a vocal minority who will cheer their own oppression. The people are cowardly sheep, as they've proven time and again, and their masks are their cherished symbol of their oppression.

The Delta variant is doing what all viruses do - become more contagious, but less deadly. With one exception - it remains just as deadly for people who've been "vaccinated", likely because of antibody dependent enhancement. Watch deaths amongst the vaccinated surge in the autumn when the normal respiratory bugs come knocking.

Look out for them trying to blame the unvaccinated, somehow, for making people who allowed themselves to be subjected to experimental gene therapy get ill.

You sound exactly like the nutty anti-vaxxer mother at my kids school. Pre-covid that is.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 08, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
You sound exactly like the nutty anti-vaxxer mother at my kids school. Pre-covid that is.

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

Look do I expect mass deaths?  No.  Do I expect long term consequences from a vaccine that hasn't gone through years of rigorous testing to prove it is safe?  Yes I do.  I am on wait and see mode because of that reason.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2021, 04:26:24 PM
You sound exactly like the nutty anti-vaxxer mother at my kids school. Pre-covid that is.

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

Look do I expect mass deaths?  No.  Do I expect long term consequences from a vaccine that hasn't gone through years of rigorous testing to prove it is safe?  Yes I do.  I am on wait and see mode because of that reason.

I would not be shocked in 5-10 years to see commercials asking "Were you or a loved one vaccinated during the Covid-19 pandemic? You may qualify for legal restitution. Call now..."
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 08, 2021, 04:51:47 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 08, 2021, 05:10:04 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.

Why?  That would just waste everyones time.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 08, 2021, 06:26:06 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.

Why?  That would just waste everyones time.
No, only that of the fool that thinks he can find evidence of Alex Jones being proven right multiple times. The rest of us know better.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 08, 2021, 07:19:55 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.

Why?  That would just waste everyones time.
No, only that of the fool that thinks he can find evidence of Alex Jones being proven right multiple times. The rest of us know better.

OK, do you believe the Gulf of Tonkin incident starting the Vietnam war is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Do you believe that the US knowing about the Pearl Harbour attacks before they happened is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Or, the most popular one, do you believe that chemicals turning frogs gay is a conspiracy theory?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 08, 2021, 07:23:22 PM
I'm absolutely cool with Kiero being in tune with Alex Jones.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 09, 2021, 05:53:09 AM
You sound exactly like the nutty anti-vaxxer mother at my kids school. Pre-covid that is.

I'm not against vaccinations, I'm against this utterly pointless experimental treatment. And the equally pointless one for flu.

I bet you love being muzzled and seeing everyone else being forced to do the same around you.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 09, 2021, 08:10:57 AM
And some of you are eager to help hold people down and give them the jab.

Just like HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra (https://dailycaller.com/2021/07/08/xavier-becerra-hhs-joe-biden-non-vaccination-door-white-house/).

Just like CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner (https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/07/08/cnn-medical-analyst-dr-reiner-its-time-to-start-mandating-vaccines/).

So much for 'my body, my choice'. Open that door to eugenics, motherfuckers. You've set the precedent to apply medical procedures to people even if they object.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 09, 2021, 08:55:02 AM
This is the UK's Yellow Card system for vaccination (equivalent to VAERS in the US): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

They're an under-estimate of events, because only about 10% of people even bother reporting them. Even with all the deliberate obfuscation to avoid attributing deaths to covid jabs, there have been 1440 so far, which equates to 1 death per 31,153 people vaccinated. There are 309,272 Yellow Cards (Adverse Reaction reports) raised, 1 per 145 people vaccinated. Though it tends to be clustered with people reporting multiple events.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 09:27:42 AM
So much for 'my body, my choice'. Open that door to eugenics, motherfuckers. You've set the precedent to apply medical procedures to people even if they object.
Decent parody:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29PCOFXSKc
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2021, 10:21:54 AM
This is the UK's Yellow Card system for vaccination (equivalent to VAERS in the US): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

They're an under-estimate of events, because only about 10% of people even bother reporting them. Even with all the deliberate obfuscation to avoid attributing deaths to covid jabs, there have been 1440 so far, which equates to 1 death per 31,153 people vaccinated. There are 309,272 Yellow Cards (Adverse Reaction reports) raised, 1 per 145 people vaccinated. Though it tends to be clustered with people reporting multiple events.

You're taking all deaths that are temporally associated with the vaccine to be *caused* by the vaccine. This is the same accusation made about inflating covid deaths - that any death with a positive covid test is a covid death. Here's the section you're citing with regards to deaths:

Quote
Based on age-stratified all-cause mortality in England and Wales taken from the Office for National Statistics death registrations, several thousand deaths are expected to have occurred, naturally, within 7 days of the many millions of doses of vaccines administered so far, mostly in the elderly.

The MHRA has received 450 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 960 reports for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, six for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 24 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified. The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the vaccines has increased over the course of the campaigns and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccines played a role in these deaths.

I see 450+960+6+24 = 1440. However, as the section says, these are cases where the patient died shortly after vaccination -- which isn't the same as death being caused *by* the vaccination. And the number of people vaccinated is greater than the number of people infected, plus the vaccinated population skews older than the population in general. As I understand it, those under 18 are not being vaccinated at all in the UK, and the elderly are much more likely to get vaccinated.


I don't think that people should be forced to be vaccinated, but I also don't think that covid vaccinations are any more unsafe than vaccinations in general. I'm not a medical doctor - but I note that medical doctors are choosing to take the vaccine at a higher rate than the rest of the population.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 10:54:45 AM
I note that medical doctors are choosing to take the vaccine at a higher rate than the rest of the population.
I wouldn't read too much into that. Frontline medical workers typically take vaccines at a much higher rate than the overall population, because they're at higher risk and at the front of the queue. And they take them much earlier as well, so more would have taken the shot before the negative side effects were widely reported. Plus, with the widespread rejection of informed choice by the government and hospital systems, many didn't have a choice if they wanted to continue working.

You're also looking at the VAERS and Yellow Card reports the wrong way. While you're correct that it doesn't prove a causal link, it's absolutely vital to assume there's a causal link until proven otherwise. When there are reports of widespread deaths correlated with a vaccine, it gets pulled (except for the covid-19 vaccines), because it's not the time or place to wait for definitive proof. It's also an essential assumption when investigating the reports -- the goal is not to prove the vaccine caused the side effect, but to start with the assumption that the vaccine did cause the side effect, and then try to rule it out. The burden of proof was set up this way for what should be very obvious reasons.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2021, 01:06:57 PM
You're also looking at the VAERS and Yellow Card reports the wrong way. While you're correct that it doesn't prove a causal link, it's absolutely vital to assume there's a causal link until proven otherwise. When there are reports of widespread deaths correlated with a vaccine, it gets pulled (except for the covid-19 vaccines), because it's not the time or place to wait for definitive proof. It's also an essential assumption when investigating the reports -- the goal is not to prove the vaccine caused the side effect, but to start with the assumption that the vaccine did cause the side effect, and then try to rule it out. The burden of proof was set up this way for what should be very obvious reasons.

*Every* vaccine that is widely distributed also has widespread deaths that are correlated with it. That's inherent in distributing to hundreds of millions of people -- some people are going to die after receiving it, because some people *always* die at any given time -- especially the elderly. The vast majority of deaths do not have detailed autopsies, so there is no definite cause of death.

The proof is statistical, not by absolute proof of cause. If the death rate under vaccinations is roughly the same as the death rate otherwise, then the vaccine is considered safe. It is even accepted that there will always be some level of adverse reactions including a few genuinely fatal ones, as long as it is under a given level.


I note that medical doctors are choosing to take the vaccine at a higher rate than the rest of the population.
I wouldn't read too much into that. Frontline medical workers typically take vaccines at a much higher rate than the overall population, because they're at higher risk and at the front of the queue. And they take them much earlier as well, so more would have taken the shot before the negative side effects were widely reported. Plus, with the widespread rejection of informed choice by the government and hospital systems, many didn't have a choice if they wanted to continue working.

This seems like a general argument to not pay attention to doctors, because they have to bow to the system. I think the system may create some bias, but in general, I think it's good to listen to one's doctor and follow their advice - including about vaccines. (I just got back from my first endoscopy yesterday, so this seems relevant to me.) Doctors have pushed back against the system in many countries, in cases where the government was pursuing unhealthy policies.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 01:18:49 PM
*Every* vaccine that is widely distributed also has widespread deaths that are correlated with it. That's inherent in distributing to hundreds of millions of people -- some people are going to die after receiving it, because some people *always* die at any given time -- especially the elderly. The vast majority of deaths do not have detailed autopsies, so there is no definite cause of death.

The proof is statistical, not by absolute proof of cause. If the death rate under vaccinations is roughly the same as the death rate otherwise, then the vaccine is considered safe. It is even accepted that there will always be some level of adverse reactions including a few genuinely fatal ones, as long as it is under a given level.

(https://swprs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/openvaers-deaths-july-2-2021.png)

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 01:25:38 PM
I note that medical doctors are choosing to take the vaccine at a higher rate than the rest of the population.
I wouldn't read too much into that. Frontline medical workers typically take vaccines at a much higher rate than the overall population, because they're at higher risk and at the front of the queue. And they take them much earlier as well, so more would have taken the shot before the negative side effects were widely reported. Plus, with the widespread rejection of informed choice by the government and hospital systems, many didn't have a choice if they wanted to continue working.

This seems like a general argument to not pay attention to doctors, because they have to bow to the system. I think the system may create some bias, but in general, I think it's good to listen to one's doctor and follow their advice - including about vaccines. (I just got back from my first endoscopy yesterday, so this seems relevant to me.) Doctors have pushed back against the system in many countries, in cases where the government was pursuing unhealthy policies.
Nonsense, I neither said nor implied any such thing. I simply pointed out that doctors are natural outliers, and that a simplistic comparison of their vaccination rates compared to the vaccination rates of the general public is completely useless and tells us absolutely nothing. Once again, you're claiming I said something I didn't because you can't argue against my point honestly.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2021, 01:34:41 PM
*Every* vaccine that is widely distributed also has widespread deaths that are correlated with it. That's inherent in distributing to hundreds of millions of people -- some people are going to die after receiving it, because some people *always* die at any given time -- especially the elderly. The vast majority of deaths do not have detailed autopsies, so there is no definite cause of death.

The proof is statistical, not by absolute proof of cause. If the death rate under vaccinations is roughly the same as the death rate otherwise, then the vaccine is considered safe. It is even accepted that there will always be some level of adverse reactions including a few genuinely fatal ones, as long as it is under a given level.

(https://swprs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/openvaers-deaths-july-2-2021.png)

In a normal year, mass vaccinations are mainly to children. In 2021, we've distributed millions of vaccines in a short time to primarily elderly people. That's inherently going to produce a sharp increase in correlated deaths.

The question is -- is the increase greater than the increase that would be expected just from the demographics of vaccine distribution? That's the important question, and just showing graphs that are clearly correlation is just fear-mongering.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 09, 2021, 01:48:38 PM
Of course in circumstances like this I would always say speak to your doctor or another medical professional if you have any concerns. Vaccination centres here have people who will take you through the risks and your GP should have your best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 01:59:58 PM
In a normal year, mass vaccinations are mainly to children. In 2021, we've distributed millions of vaccines in a short time to primarily elderly people. That's inherently going to produce a sharp increase in correlated deaths.

The question is -- is the increase greater than the increase that would be expected just from the demographics of vaccine distribution? That's the important question, and just showing graphs that are clearly correlation is just fear-mongering.
You mean like your claim of correlation without causation, re: the rate at which doctors take the vaccines? Funny how it's fine if you do it, but if anyone else does it in response to you doing it, it's fear mongering.

It's almost like you're... oh wait, I can't say fear mongering, can I? You've already used it. If you say it first, it means nobody can use it against you, right?

If anyone is honestly interested in the topic, see one of the interviews with Robert Malone. He lays out how the rate of adverse side-effects for the covid-19 vaccines is exceptional, and would have resulted in any other vaccine being pulled. And he's slightly more qualified than John H. Kim, since he's a physician who is the creator of the mRNA vaccine technology, has worked on all pandemics since the 1980s, has worked for both major pharma companies and the government, serves as advisor for and has very highly placed contacts in both, and is taking a great personal risk to speak out since any controversy could risk his chance at a Nobel. He also talks about why he got the jab himself (Moderna), and his reservations based on the data that's come out since (he got his shot very early).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2021, 03:10:26 PM
I am intensley skeptical that reports of adverse affects from the experimental vaccines are being reported or investigated thoroughly.
Consider-

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#vaccine

Quote
DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 03:23:00 PM
^ And for reference, that clause exempts Pharma companies from Phase 4, which is supposed to reveal long time side effects of vaccines. This has never been done before. And it's a flat exemption. They're not scaling back Phase 4 to a manageable size, because too many jabs were distributed to track. Nobody is collecting the data.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 09, 2021, 03:35:19 PM
^ And for reference, that clause exempts Pharma companies from Phase 4, which is supposed to reveal long time side effects of vaccines. This has never been done before. And it's a flat exemption. They're not scaling back Phase 4 to a manageable size, because too many jabs were distributed to track. Nobody is collecting the data.
Perhaps the usual suspects are not, but I can tell you at least one place that is doing so: the FDOC prisons in Florida. They have the advantages of having long-term access for follow-up monitoring. If they start seeing trends, they have a path to report them up. So, there is at least a process with a semi-controlled population. Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the ability of Centurion (the state's for-profit contracted heath care provider) to put much effort into working this process as it's not going to bring in any extra money.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 09, 2021, 03:48:41 PM
^ And for reference, that clause exempts Pharma companies from Phase 4, which is supposed to reveal long time side effects of vaccines. This has never been done before. And it's a flat exemption. They're not scaling back Phase 4 to a manageable size, because too many jabs were distributed to track. Nobody is collecting the data.

That is fucking bleak.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 04:29:10 PM
^ And for reference, that clause exempts Pharma companies from Phase 4, which is supposed to reveal long time side effects of vaccines. This has never been done before. And it's a flat exemption. They're not scaling back Phase 4 to a manageable size, because too many jabs were distributed to track. Nobody is collecting the data.
Perhaps the usual suspects are not, but I can tell you at least one place that is doing so: the FDOC prisons in Florida. They have the advantages of having long-term access for follow-up monitoring. If they start seeing trends, they have a path to report them up. So, there is at least a process with a semi-controlled population. Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the ability of Centurion (the state's for-profit contracted heath care provider) to put much effort into working this process as it's not going to bring in any extra money.
This is wide enough scale that there will a lot of information out there. The problem is it will be scattered, hard to collate, and not necessarily representative. That means the conclusions they draw will be more provisional or limited.

It would have been quite reasonable to scale down the tracking, because following up with literally every person who got a jab isn't practical (or necessary) when it includes a significant portion of the country and the world. But a single, rigorous, authoritative source would be really useful, and it's one of the most basic requirements. It boggles my mind that they didn't even try.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
If anyone is honestly interested in the topic, see one of the interviews with Robert Malone. He lays out how the rate of adverse side-effects for the covid-19 vaccines is exceptional, and would have resulted in any other vaccine being pulled. And he's slightly more qualified than John H. Kim, since he's a physician who is the creator of the mRNA vaccine technology, has worked on all pandemics since the 1980s, has worked for both major pharma companies and the government, serves as advisor for and has very highly placed contacts in both, and is taking a great personal risk to speak out since any controversy could risk his chance at a Nobel. He also talks about why he got the jab himself (Moderna), and his reservations based on the data that's come out since (he got his shot very early).

My whole point was to listen to doctors and other experts in vaccine and infectious disease. Pat - you're not a medical doctor any more than I am, so I don't see how my credentials are any more relevant than yours. I'm happy to debate logical points here on this forum, but I would again urge for any actual medical decisions about one's own body - talk to your actual doctor. If you don't trust your doctor, get a different doctor.

I would urge *against* is looking up a video from a doctor based on Internet search or forum recommendation for making one's medical decisions. There are hundreds of thousands of MDs in the world, and even hundreds who are long-time specialists in any given subject like vaccines.

That said, if one wants to, I believe this is Robert Malone's website (as "RW Malone MD, LLC" for his consultancy services) -

https://www.rwmalonemd.com/
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 07:22:12 PM
My whole point was to listen to doctors and other experts in vaccine and infectious disease. Pat - you're not a medical doctor any more than I am, so I don't see how my credentials are any more relevant than yours. I'm happy to debate logical points here on this forum, but I would again urge for any actual medical decisions about one's own body - talk to your actual doctor. If you don't trust your doctor, get a different doctor.

I would urge *against* is looking up a video from a doctor based on Internet search or forum recommendation for making one's medical decisions. There are hundreds of thousands of MDs in the world, and even hundreds who are long-time specialists in any given subject like vaccines.
You never said anything about listening to the doctors. That claim is false. What happened is you started this conversation by comparing vaccination rates in different groups. I was the one who referenced a doctor to poke holes in your theories, not you.

You were also the one who started making a logical argument. I replied in kind. But now that I've poked holes in your arguments, you're claiming that we shouldn't be saying anything about it, because people should only be getting information from their own personal physician. In other words, you can't defend your point, so you've switched to arguing that the whole discussion is invalid. That's a very dishonest rhetorical technique. In addition, you're implying that I told people to ignore their own doctors. Which again is just false. I never said any such thing.

You also said that people should ignore the doctor I referenced. Because -- I couldn't make this up -- there are a lot of doctors. Which isn't even the start of an argument. In other words, you're saying people should listen to your fear-mongering, and their own personal doctor, and ignore everyone else, regardless of their credentials. In a single post you managed to claim that you weren't an expert and we shouldn't be talking about this, and that people should listen to you, and not a doctor who happens to be one of the 2 or 3 most qualified people on the planet in this particular subject.

Also, and this is trivial in comparison, I do have more credentials than you do, in this very specific field. I've never mentioned them before, because I don't make arguments from a position of authority, they're relatively minor, and they're out of date. But you're wrong again.

I can't seen any way to interpret any of these as honest mistakes. You're being deliberately deceptive, disingenuous, and making attacks on my character. In doing so, you've had to contort your arguments so far that you're not only contradicting yourself in subsequent posts, but between paragraphs.

Every last trace of respect I had for you is gone. You're pond scum.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 09, 2021, 07:57:32 PM
Also, and this is trivial in comparison, I do have more credentials than you do, in this very specific field. I've never mentioned them before, because I don't make arguments from a position of authority, they're relatively minor, and they're out of date. But you're wrong again.

I can't seen any way to interpret any of these as honest mistakes. You're being deliberately deceptive, disingenuous, and making attacks on my character. In doing so, you've had to contort your arguments so far that you're not only contradicting yourself in subsequent posts, but between paragraphs.

Pat, the only thing I said about you personally was that you're no more of a medical doctor than me -- but I have now learned that is not true and you have some medical credentials. I apologize for assuming otherwise, though to be fair, you've never mentioned these after years of discussion. I do not think you are lying, and do not mean to attack your character.

I hope you're doing well in life in general.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2021, 08:05:27 PM
Also, and this is trivial in comparison, I do have more credentials than you do, in this very specific field. I've never mentioned them before, because I don't make arguments from a position of authority, they're relatively minor, and they're out of date. But you're wrong again.

I can't seen any way to interpret any of these as honest mistakes. You're being deliberately deceptive, disingenuous, and making attacks on my character. In doing so, you've had to contort your arguments so far that you're not only contradicting yourself in subsequent posts, but between paragraphs.

Pat, the only thing I said about you personally was that you're no more of a medical doctor than me -- but I have now learned that is not true and you have some medical credentials. I apologize for assuming otherwise, though to be fair, you've never mentioned these after years of discussion. I do not think you are lying, and do not mean to attack your character.

I hope you're doing well in life in general.

Dude. I don't believe in kicking a person when they're down, but. Dude.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 09, 2021, 08:06:59 PM
Pat, the only thing I said about you personally was that you're no more of a medical doctor than me -- but I have now learned that is not true and you have some medical credentials. I apologize for assuming otherwise, though to be fair, you've never mentioned these after years of discussion. I do not think you are lying, and do not mean to attack your character.
No, you also implied I was telling people to ignore their doctors. I did not.

And I never said I had medical credentials. You read things that simply aren't there, into every sentence.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 09, 2021, 09:51:41 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.

Why?  That would just waste everyones time.
No, only that of the fool that thinks he can find evidence of Alex Jones being proven right multiple times. The rest of us know better.

OK, do you believe the Gulf of Tonkin incident starting the Vietnam war is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Do you believe that the US knowing about the Pearl Harbour attacks before they happened is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Or, the most popular one, do you believe that chemicals turning frogs gay is a conspiracy theory?

Ah, I love a good told ya so.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 09, 2021, 10:38:22 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.

Why?  That would just waste everyones time.
No, only that of the fool that thinks he can find evidence of Alex Jones being proven right multiple times. The rest of us know better.

OK, do you believe the Gulf of Tonkin incident starting the Vietnam war is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Do you believe that the US knowing about the Pearl Harbour attacks before they happened is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Or, the most popular one, do you believe that chemicals turning frogs gay is a conspiracy theory?

Ah, I love a good told ya so.

You did forget about Bohemian Grove which Alex Jones did say it exists.  A lot of people didn't believe on that.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 09, 2021, 11:04:23 PM

People thought Alex Jones was nuts till he was proven right multiple times.

I'm going to ask for your sources that show the above.

Why?  That would just waste everyones time.
No, only that of the fool that thinks he can find evidence of Alex Jones being proven right multiple times. The rest of us know better.

OK, do you believe the Gulf of Tonkin incident starting the Vietnam war is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Do you believe that the US knowing about the Pearl Harbour attacks before they happened is an Alex Jones conspiracy theory?

Or, the most popular one, do you believe that chemicals turning frogs gay is a conspiracy theory?

Ah, I love a good told ya so.

You did forget about Bohemian Grove which Alex Jones did say it exists.  A lot of people didn't believe on that.

What? Americas elite worshiping a giant owl?

Thats crazy!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 12, 2021, 01:42:54 AM
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/features/hurricanepreparedness/index.html
Quote from: CDC
Follow these important hurricane preparedness tips from CDC:
  • Prepare for a hurricane: Take basic steps now to ensure your safety should a storm hit.
  • Get a COVID-19 vaccine as soon as you can. COVID-19 vaccines help protect you from getting sick or severely ill with COVID-19 and may also help protect people around you.
  • Get emergency supplies: Stock your home and your car with supplies. Give yourself more time than usual to prepare your emergency food, water, and medicine supplies.
  • Home delivery is the safest choice for buying disaster supplies; however, that may not be an option for everyone. If in-person shopping is your only choice, take steps to protect your and others’ health when running essential errands.
  • Make a plan: Create a family disaster plan.
  • Prepare to evacuate: Never ignore an evacuation order. Pay attention to local guidance about updated plans for evacuations and shelters, including shelters for your pets.
  • Protect older adults: Understand older adult health and medical concerns.
  • Protect your pets: Ensure your pet’s safety before, during, and after a hurricane.
  • When you check on neighbors and friends, be sure to follow social distancing recommendations (staying at least 6 feet from others) and other CDC recommendations to protect yourself and others.
This is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 12, 2021, 08:12:43 AM
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/features/hurricanepreparedness/index.html
Quote from: CDC
Follow these important hurricane preparedness tips from CDC:
  • Prepare for a hurricane: Take basic steps now to ensure your safety should a storm hit.
  • Get a COVID-19 vaccine as soon as you can. COVID-19 vaccines help protect you from getting sick or severely ill with COVID-19 and may also help protect people around you.
  • Get emergency supplies: Stock your home and your car with supplies. Give yourself more time than usual to prepare your emergency food, water, and medicine supplies.
  • Home delivery is the safest choice for buying disaster supplies; however, that may not be an option for everyone. If in-person shopping is your only choice, take steps to protect your and others’ health when running essential errands.
  • Make a plan: Create a family disaster plan.
  • Prepare to evacuate: Never ignore an evacuation order. Pay attention to local guidance about updated plans for evacuations and shelters, including shelters for your pets.
  • Protect older adults: Understand older adult health and medical concerns.
  • Protect your pets: Ensure your pet’s safety before, during, and after a hurricane.
  • When you check on neighbors and friends, be sure to follow social distancing recommendations (staying at least 6 feet from others) and other CDC recommendations to protect yourself and others.
This is getting ridiculous.
They left out 'buy firearms to repel looters in the event of complete breakdown in order', but then again, these days it's a stone bitch to buy a gun and ammo.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 12, 2021, 05:01:45 PM
Of course in circumstances like this I would always say speak to your doctor or another medical professional if you have any concerns. Vaccination centres here have people who will take you through the risks and your GP should have your best interests at heart.

Vaccination centres are revenue earners for the practises who designate themselves as such. They get paid for every jab they deliver.

Yes, I'm going to trust the people profiting from the procedure they are delivering...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 12, 2021, 06:29:16 PM
Of course in circumstances like this I would always say speak to your doctor or another medical professional if you have any concerns. Vaccination centres here have people who will take you through the risks and your GP should have your best interests at heart.

Vaccination centres are revenue earners for the practises who designate themselves as such. They get paid for every jab they deliver.

Yes, I'm going to trust the people profiting from the procedure they are delivering...

Interesting.  Do you trust the trained professionals that you are paying to look after you or do you trust the random internet stranger posting from their mothers basement?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 12, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Of course in circumstances like this I would always say speak to your doctor or another medical professional if you have any concerns. Vaccination centres here have people who will take you through the risks and your GP should have your best interests at heart.

Vaccination centres are revenue earners for the practises who designate themselves as such. They get paid for every jab they deliver.

Yes, I'm going to trust the people profiting from the procedure they are delivering...
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 12, 2021, 06:42:40 PM
Politico is now reporting that the Biden-puppet shadow government is working with tech oligarchs to intercept and read all of your SMS and suppress vaccine-skepticism. Trust the Science.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 12, 2021, 06:44:18 PM
Of course in circumstances like this I would always say speak to your doctor or another medical professional if you have any concerns. Vaccination centres here have people who will take you through the risks and your GP should have your best interests at heart.

Vaccination centres are revenue earners for the practises who designate themselves as such. They get paid for every jab they deliver.

Yes, I'm going to trust the people profiting from the procedure they are delivering...


Interesting.  Do you trust the trained professionals that you are paying to look after you or do you trust the random internet stranger posting from their mothers basement?

I don't trust anyone who tries to suppress information in order to influence my decision-making...

Beyond that, my trust in the 'professional' will depend on whether or not their financial incentive based on my personal interest is outweighed by the financial incentive from someone else's personal interest.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 12, 2021, 06:44:44 PM
Of course in circumstances like this I would always say speak to your doctor or another medical professional if you have any concerns. Vaccination centres here have people who will take you through the risks and your GP should have your best interests at heart.

Vaccination centres are revenue earners for the practises who designate themselves as such. They get paid for every jab they deliver.

Yes, I'm going to trust the people profiting from the procedure they are delivering...

You're worried about despicable profit mongering NHS vaccination centres? This isn't making you sound any less nuts.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 04:03:12 PM
Quote
Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278

This is what you voted for, if you voted for Sleepy Joe and his Ho.

The government actively trying to police text messages sent between private individuals.

Hope you're proud of yourselves.

"May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." --Samuel Adams
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on July 13, 2021, 06:45:33 PM
(https://media.patriots.win/post/UUldFVGx.png)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 13, 2021, 08:49:06 PM
(https://media.patriots.win/post/UUldFVGx.png)

What's the source on this? Is the grandmother OK?

SMS messages are handled by regulated network and are supposed to be private (though they are often transmitted plain text and are not secure). So I'd be interested in any further information on what's happening here. (Unless it is just created as a graphic rather than a screenshot of a real conversation.) I do note that there are voluntary apps that one can install to filter SMS messages to reduce spam. Here's an article on covid-19 scam filtering, for example:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/new-text-blocking-app-protects-against-covid-19-scams-060920.html

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 09:33:52 PM
(https://media.patriots.win/post/UUldFVGx.png)

What's the source on this? Is the grandmother OK?

SMS messages are handled by regulated network and are supposed to be private (though they are often transmitted plain text and are not secure). So I'd be interested in any further information on what's happening here. (Unless it is just created as a graphic rather than a screenshot of a real conversation.) I do note that there are voluntary apps that one can install to filter SMS messages to reduce spam. Here's an article on covid-19 scam filtering, for example:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/new-text-blocking-app-protects-against-covid-19-scams-060920.html
It's a photoshop, and true to form, you missed the point.

Exactly where does the government get the right to interfere with private discourse?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 13, 2021, 09:40:18 PM
Its a joking reference to this...

Quote
"Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely."

Here is the full article

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 14, 2021, 12:08:58 PM
It's a photoshop, and true to form, you missed the point.

Exactly where does the government get the right to interfere with private discourse?

The government doesn't have the right to interfere with private discourse as implied by the picture.

However, you just said the picture is a fake. So as far as I know, the government is not intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid as is implied by the picture.

If there is evidence that the government is doing so, then I would be interested. Otherwise, this seems like furor over manufactured evidence.

EDITED TO ADD:

Its a joking reference to this...

Quote
"Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely."

Here is the full article

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278)

So people are interpreting "dispel misinformation" as that the DNC and other groups will start intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid. That seems like a stretch to me, and the more straightforward interpretation of this is that the DNC will be posting fact checks and sending out information on vaccine availability and transportation.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 14, 2021, 01:17:50 PM
It's a photoshop, and true to form, you missed the point.

Exactly where does the government get the right to interfere with private discourse?

The government doesn't have the right to interfere with private discourse as implied by the picture.

However, you just said the picture is a fake. So as far as I know, the government is not intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid as is implied by the picture.

If there is evidence that the government is doing so, then I would be interested. Otherwise, this seems like furor over manufactured evidence.

EDITED TO ADD:

Its a joking reference to this...

Quote
"Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely."

Here is the full article

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278)

So people are interpreting "dispel misinformation" as that the DNC and other groups will start intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid. That seems like a stretch to me, and the more straightforward interpretation of this is that the DNC will be posting fact checks and sending out information on vaccine availability and transportation.
That's because 'dispel misinformation' is a dog whistle for 'spread bullshit when we get called out on falsehoods'.

And we do not trust them to not fuck with us. The end.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: horsesoldier on July 14, 2021, 01:48:37 PM
Plenty of things we're dealing with now would have felt like a stretch 2 years ago. Stuff like, oh I don't know, kindergartners wearing a mask all day in school or our supposed unbiased masters at the CDC dictating when and where I go in public. Priests being refused the ability to give the last rites to their dying parishioners. Doctors lying on death certificates so they can get more gibs.

A text message getting a man in the middle message added to it? That's nothing.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: DocJones on July 14, 2021, 02:05:11 PM
What's the source on this? Is the grandmother OK?

SMS messages are handled by regulated network and are supposed to be private (though they are often transmitted plain text and are not secure). So I'd be interested in any further information on what's happening here. (Unless it is just created as a graphic rather than a screenshot of a real conversation.) I do note that there are voluntary apps that one can install to filter SMS messages to reduce spam. Here's an article on covid-19 scam filtering, for example:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/new-text-blocking-app-protects-against-covid-19-scams-060920.html
It's obviously fake. 
It's a hot take on what could happen if SMS carriers implemented an AI censorship program similar to what twitter/facebook/youtube are doing (on behalf of the government!).
From the article posted by Ghostmaker...
"Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages."

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 14, 2021, 02:18:06 PM
It's a photoshop, and true to form, you missed the point.

Exactly where does the government get the right to interfere with private discourse?

The government doesn't have the right to interfere with private discourse as implied by the picture.

However, you just said the picture is a fake. So as far as I know, the government is not intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid as is implied by the picture.

If there is evidence that the government is doing so, then I would be interested. Otherwise, this seems like furor over manufactured evidence.

EDITED TO ADD:

Its a joking reference to this...

Quote
"Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely."

Here is the full article

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278)

So people are interpreting "dispel misinformation" as that the DNC and other groups will start intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid. That seems like a stretch to me, and the more straightforward interpretation of this is that the DNC will be posting fact checks and sending out information on vaccine availability and transportation.

Oh, I'm sorry should I have picked another site to quote from.  I'm sorry, I should have known an alt-right site like Politico wouldn't be acceptable to you...

Did you even read the section I quoted,,,,

Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages."

If they are planning to 'dispel info' about the vaccine that someone sends in a text message that means they obviously have to 'intercept' it at some point...

If you lick a little harder, that boot will really shine.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 14, 2021, 02:59:23 PM

Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages."

If they are planning to 'dispel info' about the vaccine that someone sends in a text message that means they obviously have to 'intercept' it at some point...
I've read the article a couple times, searching for all references to SMS, and it's all horribly vague. One of the examples they give of what they intend to counter is Turning Point sent out SMSes encouraging people to sign a petition against "medical raids". But you normally can't just blast out SMSes. It requires explicit consent. The people Turning Point is contacted had to opt-in. It wasn't a blast spam to some targeted demographic.

They talk about contacting "carriers". The simplest reading is they're contacting the companies that manage the flow of SMS (i.e. mostly telecom companies), but it could also be a reference to various third party services that manage bulk SMSes. It could imply interception, but it could also be requesting copies of bulk texts sent by companies like Turning Point. I.e. reading them at the point of origin, instead of compromising the network. Even more simply, they could just be using the carriers to send out of their messages, to their own opted-in lists. There are some massive legal and technical barriers for the more intrusive versions, so the default should be skepticism without more information, which the article does not provide.

The person writing the article probably isn't very knowledgeable about the technical aspects, and only makes a few vague statements which are hard to interpret. So both sides are drawing conclusions that are too strong based on the evidence. It's most likely on the benign side, but there are some worrisome hints/possible interpretations, and especially given the perfidy and legally unjustifiably overreach of the government over everything covid-related, it's also perfectly reasonable to demand more clarification.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 14, 2021, 04:51:05 PM
It's a photoshop, and true to form, you missed the point.

Exactly where does the government get the right to interfere with private discourse?

The government doesn't have the right to interfere with private discourse as implied by the picture.

However, you just said the picture is a fake. So as far as I know, the government is not intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid as is implied by the picture.

If there is evidence that the government is doing so, then I would be interested. Otherwise, this seems like furor over manufactured evidence.

EDITED TO ADD:

Its a joking reference to this...

Quote
"Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely."

Here is the full article

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278)

So people are interpreting "dispel misinformation" as that the DNC and other groups will start intercepting and blocking SMS messages about covid. That seems like a stretch to me, and the more straightforward interpretation of this is that the DNC will be posting fact checks and sending out information on vaccine availability and transportation.

Considering the lies and underhanded manipulation the government has indulged in since the beginning of the pandemic, I wouldn't trust them to tell us the time.
I would not be surprised if they did start intercepting and blocking our communications "for our own good".
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 14, 2021, 06:02:38 PM

Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages."

If they are planning to 'dispel info' about the vaccine that someone sends in a text message that means they obviously have to 'intercept' it at some point...
I've read the article a couple times, searching for all references to SMS, and it's all horribly vague. One of the examples they give of what they intend to counter is Turning Point sent out SMSes encouraging people to sign a petition against "medical raids". But you normally can't just blast out SMSes. It requires explicit consent. The people Turning Point is contacted had to opt-in. It wasn't a blast spam to some targeted demographic.

They talk about contacting "carriers". The simplest reading is they're contacting the companies that manage the flow of SMS (i.e. mostly telecom companies), but it could also be a reference to various third party services that manage bulk SMSes. It could imply interception, but it could also be requesting copies of bulk texts sent by companies like Turning Point. I.e. reading them at the point of origin, instead of compromising the network. Even more simply, they could just be using the carriers to send out of their messages, to their own opted-in lists. There are some massive legal and technical barriers for the more intrusive versions, so the default should be skepticism without more information, which the article does not provide.

The person writing the article probably isn't very knowledgeable about the technical aspects, and only makes a few vague statements which are hard to interpret. So both sides are drawing conclusions that are too strong based on the evidence. It's most likely on the benign side, but there are some worrisome hints/possible interpretations, and especially given the perfidy and legally unjustifiably overreach of the government over everything covid-related, it's also perfectly reasonable to demand more clarification.

All the 'legal' issues will be ignored and the courts will rule you don't have standing because you have to prove that it specifically caused you some 'tangible' harm...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 14, 2021, 07:03:08 PM
The details here are pretty vague, but we can know a couple of things. One is that whatever they're planning on doing, it's highly illegal. The second is that they will go ahead and do it regardless because the courts are too cowardly/corrupt to stop it.

I honestly hope this is as draconian and intrusive as possible. I'd much rather this boiling point is reached BEFORE we get to the mandatory vaccination & mandatory passport-to-leave-your-house point.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 14, 2021, 08:11:28 PM
The details here are pretty vague, but we can know a couple of things. One is that whatever they're planning on doing, it's highly illegal. The second is that they will go ahead and do it regardless because the courts are too cowardly/corrupt to stop it.

I honestly hope this is as draconian and intrusive as possible. I'd much rather this boiling point is reached BEFORE we get to the mandatory vaccination & mandatory passport-to-leave-your-house point.

I'm not clear on what we're talking about here.

I am hugely opposed to a lot of government privacy-invading practices that I know have gone on -- like the NSA phone metadata tapping revealed by Edward Snowden, or the warrantless pulls of phone geolocation data revealed in the Supreme Court decision on Carpenter, or just the millions of warrants passed through en masse, and lots of other privacy invasions and interceptions. I agree that both federal and state governments have done a ton of this and are likely to continue.

But that doesn't mean that I will automatically believe any claim made about governments - particularly if the claim is vague and has no cited evidence.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 15, 2021, 08:24:10 AM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 15, 2021, 03:41:58 PM
Government is now overtly using Facebook to control (dis)information about Covid.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 15, 2021, 04:49:04 PM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 15, 2021, 06:46:24 PM
Government is now overtly using Facebook to control (dis)information about Covid.


Beat me to it.

Hey, all you Biden voters, hope this was worth it. No, really.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 15, 2021, 07:04:18 PM
I'm not clear on what we're talking about here.

I am hugely opposed to a lot of government privacy-invading practices that I know have gone on -- like the NSA phone metadata tapping revealed by Edward Snowden, or the warrantless pulls of phone geolocation data revealed in the Supreme Court decision on Carpenter, or just the millions of warrants passed through en masse, and lots of other privacy invasions and interceptions. I agree that both federal and state governments have done a ton of this and are likely to continue.

But that doesn't mean that I will automatically believe any claim made about governments - particularly if the claim is vague and has no cited evidence.

Yes, I agree it's unclear. I think people who follow politics know the government has been engaging in spying on US citizens communications in a way that was always fishy, and has been shown to be illegal for many years. In theory that abuse was limited in scope, although that assumption isn't based on evidence and "the Right" collectively was wrong to downplay the potential for abuse.

We don't know the solid details of what this report suggests is happening. However, presumably this isn't a continuation of existing programs, which wouldn't be noteworthy. The report suggests a dramatic, national-scale expansion of surveillance efforts, and also suggests other methods (unspecified) of intervention. Any intervention at all on this scale is simply treason.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 15, 2021, 08:08:27 PM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

How does getting an emergency procedure apply to getting a vaccine?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 15, 2021, 08:09:28 PM
I'm not clear on what we're talking about here.

I am hugely opposed to a lot of government privacy-invading practices that I know have gone on -- like the NSA phone metadata tapping revealed by Edward Snowden, or the warrantless pulls of phone geolocation data revealed in the Supreme Court decision on Carpenter, or just the millions of warrants passed through en masse, and lots of other privacy invasions and interceptions. I agree that both federal and state governments have done a ton of this and are likely to continue.

But that doesn't mean that I will automatically believe any claim made about governments - particularly if the claim is vague and has no cited evidence.

Yes, I agree it's unclear. I think people who follow politics know the government has been engaging in spying on US citizens communications in a way that was always fishy, and has been shown to be illegal for many years. In theory that abuse was limited in scope, although that assumption isn't based on evidence and "the Right" collectively was wrong to downplay the potential for abuse.

We don't know the solid details of what this report suggests is happening. However, presumably this isn't a continuation of existing programs, which wouldn't be noteworthy. The report suggests a dramatic, national-scale expansion of surveillance efforts, and also suggests other methods (unspecified) of intervention. Any intervention at all on this scale is simply treason.
I'd avoid the word treason. It's not thrown around as much as fascism, but it's thrown around far to frequently. And unlike the ever-more-nebulous definitions of fascism, treason has a very specific meaning within this context. It's the only crime that is clearly defined, and requires a uniquely difficult standard of evidence prove, in the US Constitution. And the reason it's written that way is to oppose the loose definition you're using. The Founding Fathers were fully cognizant of the many cases in England where a simple but rancorous partisan dispute led to the capital charge of treason, and they wanted to forestall that kind of abuse in the US.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 15, 2021, 08:17:58 PM
I'm not clear on what we're talking about here.

I am hugely opposed to a lot of government privacy-invading practices that I know have gone on -- like the NSA phone metadata tapping revealed by Edward Snowden, or the warrantless pulls of phone geolocation data revealed in the Supreme Court decision on Carpenter, or just the millions of warrants passed through en masse, and lots of other privacy invasions and interceptions. I agree that both federal and state governments have done a ton of this and are likely to continue.

But that doesn't mean that I will automatically believe any claim made about governments - particularly if the claim is vague and has no cited evidence.

Yes, I agree it's unclear. I think people who follow politics know the government has been engaging in spying on US citizens communications in a way that was always fishy, and has been shown to be illegal for many years. In theory that abuse was limited in scope, although that assumption isn't based on evidence and "the Right" collectively was wrong to downplay the potential for abuse.

We don't know the solid details of what this report suggests is happening. However, presumably this isn't a continuation of existing programs, which wouldn't be noteworthy. The report suggests a dramatic, national-scale expansion of surveillance efforts, and also suggests other methods (unspecified) of intervention. Any intervention at all on this scale is simply treason.

When you say "report", are you talking about the Politico article previously linked?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278

I don't consider Politico to be a very reliable information source. I'd want to look at the specifics of the claim and their sources before concluding about a dramatic, national-scale change - and lacking that, is there any other evidence of this unspecified dramatic change?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 15, 2021, 08:25:39 PM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

How does getting an emergency procedure apply to getting a vaccine?
Ok, I'll go first.

You were saying you didn't trust people to provide medical treatment if they stand to profit from it. I used the example of emergency services because they too are a medical treatment.

Now it's your turn to answer the question asked.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 15, 2021, 09:02:33 PM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

How does getting an emergency procedure apply to getting a vaccine?
Ok, I'll go first.

You were saying you didn't trust people to provide medical treatment if they stand to profit from it. I used the example of emergency services because they too are a medical treatment.

Now it's your turn to answer the question asked.

You got a quote where I said that?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 15, 2021, 10:41:20 PM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

How does getting an emergency procedure apply to getting a vaccine?
Ok, I'll go first.

You were saying you didn't trust people to provide medical treatment if they stand to profit from it. I used the example of emergency services because they too are a medical treatment.

Now it's your turn to answer the question asked.

You got a quote where I said that?
Oh just fuck off already. You can go back and see where I replied to your post, you stupid shitbag, but you don't want a conversation. You just want an argument.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 15, 2021, 10:50:15 PM

Oh just fuck off already. You can go back and see where I replied to your post, you stupid shitbag, but you don't want a conversation. You just want an argument.
You're confusing two different posters.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 15, 2021, 10:52:49 PM
I hope you never need to use the emergency department. They charge you for every procedure too.

I'm not American, you fuckwit. I only pay for healthcare through taxation (and my private care through a voluntary contribution from my salary).
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

How does getting an emergency procedure apply to getting a vaccine?
Ok, I'll go first.

You were saying you didn't trust people to provide medical treatment if they stand to profit from it. I used the example of emergency services because they too are a medical treatment.

Now it's your turn to answer the question asked.

You got a quote where I said that?
Oh just fuck off already. You can go back and see where I replied to your post, you stupid shitbag, but you don't want a conversation. You just want an argument.

OK Boomer


Oh just fuck off already. You can go back and see where I replied to your post, you stupid shitbag, but you don't want a conversation. You just want an argument.
You're confusing two different posters.

You mean all posters are not the same poster?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 16, 2021, 08:06:33 AM
HappyDerp is easily confused.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 16, 2021, 08:35:53 AM

Oh just fuck off already. You can go back and see where I replied to your post, you stupid shitbag, but you don't want a conversation. You just want an argument.
You're confusing two different posters.
You're right. Missed that. Between computers right now (my last one just passed away this week at the age of 6) and posting from my phone.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 16, 2021, 10:13:44 AM
Looks like this started about a month ago.  Heads up for anyone living in the Centennial state...

https://covid19.colorado.gov/press-release/state-begins-outbound-phone-campaign-to-encourage-vaccination (https://covid19.colorado.gov/press-release/state-begins-outbound-phone-campaign-to-encourage-vaccination)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 16, 2021, 01:05:09 PM
Looks like this started about a month ago.  Heads up for anyone living in the Centennial state...

https://covid19.colorado.gov/press-release/state-begins-outbound-phone-campaign-to-encourage-vaccination (https://covid19.colorado.gov/press-release/state-begins-outbound-phone-campaign-to-encourage-vaccination)
So they call or text people? The horror...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: horsesoldier on July 16, 2021, 01:35:56 PM
Looks like this started about a month ago.  Heads up for anyone living in the Centennial state...

https://covid19.colorado.gov/press-release/state-begins-outbound-phone-campaign-to-encourage-vaccination (https://covid19.colorado.gov/press-release/state-begins-outbound-phone-campaign-to-encourage-vaccination)
So they call or text people? The horror...

Show me a time they've done this for a flu/pneumonia/meningitis vaccine. Having my name, phone number and presumably address in a database, controlled by the state government, simply because I have refused to do something? That doesn't bother you?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 16, 2021, 02:48:33 PM
Show me a time they've done this for a flu/pneumonia/meningitis vaccine. Having my name, phone number and presumably address in a database, controlled by the state government, simply because I have refused to do something? That doesn't bother you?

State governments already have names, phone numbers, and addresses in a database for a huge number of purposes - for jury summons, voter registration, state taxes, as well as tons of other purposes ranging to car registration, pet registration, amber alerts, and so forth.

But the data collected by the state and federal governments pales compared to how much information is collected by private companies. There are massive databases that track all purchases, Internet activity, geolocation data, and so forth. I favor greater privacy laws in general, and I don't see it as a new issue with covid.

I think the big disconnect is that the previous topic was about intercepting and blocking SMS messages based on content, and treason as Zelen wrote:

I think people who follow politics know the government has been engaging in spying on US citizens communications in a way that was always fishy, and has been shown to be illegal for many years. In theory that abuse was limited in scope, although that assumption isn't based on evidence and "the Right" collectively was wrong to downplay the potential for abuse.

We don't know the solid details of what this report suggests is happening. However, presumably this isn't a continuation of existing programs, which wouldn't be noteworthy. The report suggests a dramatic, national-scale expansion of surveillance efforts, and also suggests other methods (unspecified) of intervention. Any intervention at all on this scale is simply treason.

This sounds very different than sending out informational messages.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 16, 2021, 05:22:50 PM
Show me a time they've done this for a flu/pneumonia/meningitis vaccine. Having my name, phone number and presumably address in a database, controlled by the state government, simply because I have refused to do something? That doesn't bother you?

State governments already have names, phone numbers, and addresses in a database for a huge number of purposes - for jury summons, voter registration, state taxes, as well as tons of other purposes ranging to car registration, pet registration, amber alerts, and so forth.

And we aknowledged that they had a good enough reason for it. Summoning people for jurty duty, registering to vote, collecting taxes, registering cars, pets, sending out alerts and so forth.

But there almost always comes a time when the government looks over their domain and says, "Well, they let us do all that collation of people, what's one more thing?"
When is it too much? When is it inappropriate? When should we put our foot (feet?) down and say "No"?

Quote
But the data collected by the state and federal governments pales compared to how much information is collected by private companies. There are massive databases that track all purchases, Internet activity, geolocation data, and so forth. I favor greater privacy laws in general, and I don't see it as a new issue with covid.

I'm no fan of the way private companies gather and distibute information on people. I think it's being magnified by the government getting in on the action with the private companies. As in the latest push for Facebook to become a government propoganda site.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 16, 2021, 06:52:59 PM
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

They are given special, additional, exceptional payments for each jab they deliver. They aren't paid off for any other vaccine delivery.

I have never been pursued in this way for any other medical intervention in my life. I get offered the useless flu jab every year, it's a single text. This has been five different attempts to contact me, and I suspect if they had a working landline they'd be calling that frequently as well.

What's so important about this vaccine that it merits a treatment never used for anything else before?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 16, 2021, 08:23:14 PM
I have never been pursued in this way for any other medical intervention in my life. I get offered the useless flu jab every year, it's a single text. This has been five different attempts to contact me, and I suspect if they had a working landline they'd be calling that frequently as well.

What's so important about this vaccine that it merits a treatment never used for anything else before?

Because the intent has never been about protecting people, the it's always been to create a global social credit & surveillance network. The vaccine passports are essential to that, because they give 100% ID authentication and location tracking. The fact that it involves forcibly violating your own bodily integrity just helps break down your psychological resistance, since once you submit to arbitrary invasive demands you're going to subconsciously become more compliant to other demands.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 16, 2021, 09:36:25 PM
How does that apply to money making from the vaccines in your country?

They are given special, additional, exceptional payments for each jab they deliver. They aren't paid off for any other vaccine delivery.

I have never been pursued in this way for any other medical intervention in my life. I get offered the useless flu jab every year, it's a single text. This has been five different attempts to contact me, and I suspect if they had a working landline they'd be calling that frequently as well.

What's so important about this vaccine that it merits a treatment never used for anything else before?
Reminds me of the people that want me to install solar on my house. I cant tell them no often enough, and they seem to ignore no soliciting signs like they aren't even there.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 16, 2021, 09:37:23 PM
I have never been pursued in this way for any other medical intervention in my life. I get offered the useless flu jab every year, it's a single text. This has been five different attempts to contact me, and I suspect if they had a working landline they'd be calling that frequently as well.

What's so important about this vaccine that it merits a treatment never used for anything else before?

Because the intent has never been about protecting people, the it's always been to create a global social credit & surveillance network. The vaccine passports are essential to that, because they give 100% ID authentication and location tracking. The fact that it involves forcibly violating your own bodily integrity just helps break down your psychological resistance, since once you submit to arbitrary invasive demands you're going to subconsciously become more compliant to other demands.
Your tinfoil hat needs to be loosened.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 17, 2021, 09:58:43 AM
Your tinfoil hat needs to be loosened.

Trust me, I'd love it if I were wrong.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 17, 2021, 11:48:43 AM
Zelen, you sound like all those late 18th century conspiracy nutters.   ;D


Quote
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.

Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant.

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

- James Madison
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 17, 2021, 04:05:54 PM
https://odysee.com/@AlisonMorrow:6/How-weather-affects-viral-infections-like-Covid---why-there's-silence-in-science:2

Alison Morrow interviews two scientists discussing why seasonality is the biggest driver of respiratory illnesses. Pretty interesting, I especially found it thought-provoking when the point was made around the 46:00 mark about how we are now treating infections as an issue of blaming & shaming others when it may be more one of environment.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 18, 2021, 12:22:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dXP0543.png)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 18, 2021, 09:05:29 PM
https://www.ksbw.com/article/northern-california-county-changes-covid-19-death-reporting/36641556

"Previously, the county had included any person who died while infected with the virus. For example, if someone had died in a car crash but had tested positive for COVID-19, they were counted as part of the county's virus deaths - though they would not be included in the state's figures, T he Mercury News reported."

I remember when saying such a thing got you branded a conspiracy nutter.

Imagine what "misinformation" will be news tomorrow.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 19, 2021, 12:04:16 PM
Because the intent has never been about protecting people, the it's always been to create a global social credit & surveillance network. The vaccine passports are essential to that, because they give 100% ID authentication and location tracking. The fact that it involves forcibly violating your own bodily integrity just helps break down your psychological resistance, since once you submit to arbitrary invasive demands you're going to subconsciously become more compliant to other demands.

Quite. It was never about public health, because coronaviruses are trivial to the majority.

Your tinfoil hat needs to be loosened.

You really are a special brand of stupid and servile, aren't you? Oh, and my "tinfoil hat" comes off easily if I change my mind. Shame about your permanently and irreversibly altered DNA if you've been jabbed.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: horsesoldier on July 19, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
Show me a time they've done this for a flu/pneumonia/meningitis vaccine. Having my name, phone number and presumably address in a database, controlled by the state government, simply because I have refused to do something? That doesn't bother you?

State governments already have names, phone numbers, and addresses in a database for a huge number of purposes - for jury summons, voter registration, state taxes, as well as tons of other purposes ranging to car registration, pet registration, amber alerts, and so forth.

But the data collected by the state and federal governments pales compared to how much information is collected by private companies. There are massive databases that track all purchases, Internet activity, geolocation data, and so forth. I favor greater privacy laws in general, and I don't see it as a new issue with covid.


Sure, but my emphasis is for not doing something. I'm in a database because I just exist. A special database full of other people who just exist. This is out of the purview of every level of government, local, state and federal. It's being done at the behest of a federal bureaucracy.

When were flu/pneumonia/meningitis vaccinations tracked like this?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 19, 2021, 02:35:20 PM
Because the intent has never been about protecting people, the it's always been to create a global social credit & surveillance network. The vaccine passports are essential to that, because they give 100% ID authentication and location tracking. The fact that it involves forcibly violating your own bodily integrity just helps break down your psychological resistance, since once you submit to arbitrary invasive demands you're going to subconsciously become more compliant to other demands.

Quite. It was never about public health, because coronaviruses are trivial to the majority.

Your tinfoil hat needs to be loosened.

You really are a special brand of stupid and servile, aren't you? Oh, and my "tinfoil hat" comes off easily if I change my mind. Shame about your permanently and irreversibly altered DNA if you've been jabbed.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.
The vaccines do not alter the DNA of those that take it. That's the kind of bullshit disinformation that hurts people.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 19, 2021, 03:22:37 PM
I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.

It's funny, us "sheep" only need to wear masks to protect knobs like you who won't get vaccinated!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 19, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Can somebody break down the conspiracy to produce a global social credit & surveillance network? Who is behind it, why they want to do it and most importantly how are they coordinating it through all the different countries involved. It just sounds so unlikely on so many levels compared to there being an actual pandemic that actually managed to kill people and badly affect health services that were already near capacity.

I mean Utopia was fun, the original series I'm not so keen on the US remake, but also completely unbelievable. What are the details?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 19, 2021, 04:45:34 PM
Because the intent has never been about protecting people, the it's always been to create a global social credit & surveillance network. The vaccine passports are essential to that, because they give 100% ID authentication and location tracking. The fact that it involves forcibly violating your own bodily integrity just helps break down your psychological resistance, since once you submit to arbitrary invasive demands you're going to subconsciously become more compliant to other demands.

Quite. It was never about public health, because coronaviruses are trivial to the majority.

Your tinfoil hat needs to be loosened.

You really are a special brand of stupid and servile, aren't you? Oh, and my "tinfoil hat" comes off easily if I change my mind. Shame about your permanently and irreversibly altered DNA if you've been jabbed.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.
The vaccines do not alter the DNA of those that take it. That's the kind of bullshit disinformation that hurts people.

If medical experts like yourself would have been forthright and upfront from the beginning, you could have prevented people conflating a change in body chemistry and the term mRNA to create that kind of disinfo...

,,,but nope, you guys were too busy suppressing information and playing politics.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.

It's funny, us "sheep" only need to wear masks to protect knobs like you who won't get vaccinated!

Leave your mask at home.  I never asked for, needed, or wanted you to 'protect' me.  I'll live with my choices.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 19, 2021, 05:04:39 PM
You really are a special brand of stupid and servile, aren't you? Oh, and my "tinfoil hat" comes off easily if I change my mind. Shame about your permanently and irreversibly altered DNA if you've been jabbed.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.

I would probably rate damaged DNA as only 5% chance.  Most damage (80%) is going to come from free floating covid spike protein.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: SHARK on July 19, 2021, 06:53:01 PM
Because the intent has never been about protecting people, the it's always been to create a global social credit & surveillance network. The vaccine passports are essential to that, because they give 100% ID authentication and location tracking. The fact that it involves forcibly violating your own bodily integrity just helps break down your psychological resistance, since once you submit to arbitrary invasive demands you're going to subconsciously become more compliant to other demands.

Quite. It was never about public health, because coronaviruses are trivial to the majority.

Your tinfoil hat needs to be loosened.

You really are a special brand of stupid and servile, aren't you? Oh, and my "tinfoil hat" comes off easily if I change my mind. Shame about your permanently and irreversibly altered DNA if you've been jabbed.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.
The vaccines do not alter the DNA of those that take it. That's the kind of bullshit disinformation that hurts people.

If medical experts like yourself would have been forthright and upfront from the beginning, you could have prevented people conflating a change in body chemistry and the term mRNA to create that kind of disinfo...

,,,but nope, you guys were too busy suppressing information and playing politics.

I saw lots of your ilk out today. Our mask mandate has finally ended (not that I ever wore one), and most of the sheep are still dutifully wearing their muzzles.

It's funny, us "sheep" only need to wear masks to protect knobs like you who won't get vaccinated!

Leave your mask at home.  I never asked for, needed, or wanted you to 'protect' me.  I'll live with my choices.

Greetings!

Yeah, Moonsweeper! I bet if every one of the medical "experts" and government officials that were lying through their teeth all of this time, if they would be singing a different tune if they were being beaten for their lying with a lead pipe? And heavily fined for their gross deception and collusion? Beat them over and over again.

That's what those lying fucking cowards deserve. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 19, 2021, 07:11:42 PM
Can somebody break down the conspiracy to produce a global social credit & surveillance network? Who is behind it, why they want to do it and most importantly how are they coordinating it through all the different countries involved. It just sounds so unlikely on so many levels compared to there being an actual pandemic that actually managed to kill people and badly affect health services that were already near capacity.

I mean Utopia was fun, the original series I'm not so keen on the US remake, but also completely unbelievable. What are the details?

What's the part that needs to be broken down here? Not trying to be snarky, just curious.

Just take a look around and see how many governments are talking about or openly advocating mandatory vaccination. Do you think that this is out of some deep-rooted concern for your health? The rules they are trying to impose are arbitrary and stupid (you can eat at a restaurant without a mask, but you must wear one to get seated wtf?), and defy a century of medical knowledge about dealing with respiratory illness to protect the most vulnerable and let others live their lives without trying to foment fear.

Is it out of deep concern for our health that the government has worked hand-in-hand to institute the world's most comprehensive censorship system with Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc? It's not like by doing this we are overturning hundreds of years of hard-fought liberties and respect for the scientific method itself.

Pretty much every western European government, plus the US, Canada, and Australia have floated the idea of mandatory vaccination and vaccine passports. It's going to happen unless it's stopped. Every single one of these countries is in bed with the big tech companies that are eager to roll this out and all of our societies are dependent upon global capital that has its own objectives that are far removed from us remaining free and sovereign.

These parties are looking at China and saying, "We really like it when the government is in total control of who can do business and who can't, where they can spend money and where they can't. That's so much simpler and easier than having to deal with all of this complicated nonsense of representative government, rights, or competing in a marketplace."
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 19, 2021, 07:25:50 PM
Can somebody break down the conspiracy to produce a global social credit & surveillance network? Who is behind it, why they want to do it and most importantly how are they coordinating it through all the different countries involved. It just sounds so unlikely on so many levels compared to there being an actual pandemic that actually managed to kill people and badly affect health services that were already near capacity.

The view that I've often seen is that the Chinese have not only made the World Health Organization into their puppet, but also the U.S. CDC. That theory starts to get thin when they have to say that China also controls the health officials of essentially every other country in the world, from Chile to Israel to South Korea to India to Australia.

There are a huge number of countries who have all agreed that covid-19 is a deadly pandemic; enforced measures like social distancing, lockdowns, and/or masking; and also engaged in vaccination campaigns. There are minor variations in each government's approach, but none of them fit the narrative of the pandemic or vaccination being a massive lie.


Yeah, Moonsweeper! I bet if every one of the medical "experts" and government officials that were lying through their teeth all of this time, if they would be singing a different tune if they were being beaten for their lying with a lead pipe? And heavily fined for their gross deception and collusion? Beat them over and over again.

Yes, because beating people with lead pipes is a good way to get to the truth.  ::)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 19, 2021, 07:40:35 PM
Can somebody break down the conspiracy to produce a global social credit & surveillance network? Who is behind it, why they want to do it and most importantly how are they coordinating it through all the different countries involved. It just sounds so unlikely on so many levels compared to there being an actual pandemic that actually managed to kill people and badly affect health services that were already near capacity.

The view that I've often seen is that the Chinese have not only made the World Health Organization into their puppet, but also the U.S. CDC. That theory starts to get thin when they have to say that China also controls the health officials of essentially every other country in the world, from Chile to Israel to South Korea to India to Australia.

There are a huge number of countries who have all agreed that covid-19 is a deadly pandemic; enforced measures like social distancing, lockdowns, and/or masking; and also engaged in vaccination campaigns. There are minor variations in each government's approach, but none of them fit the narrative of the pandemic or vaccination being a massive lie.


Come one, lets walk this "conspiracy theory" back a little here.  There is no evidence that just because the US funded the Wuhan Virus Research Laboratory in direct violation of the Senates ban on Gain of function research that the top US health officials have any reason at all to collude with either China and or the WHO.

Frankly I expected better from you mr jhkim.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 19, 2021, 07:42:31 PM
Pretty much every western European government, plus the US, Canada, and Australia have floated the idea of mandatory vaccination and vaccine passports. It's going to happen unless it's stopped. Every single one of these countries is in bed with the big tech companies that are eager to roll this out and all of our societies are dependent upon global capital that has its own objectives that are far removed from us remaining free and sovereign.

A large number of countries have had mandatory vaccination policies since before covid-19. Below is a map of countries with various mandatory childhood vaccinations, as an illustration.

(https://darkshire.net/jhkim/img/mandatory-childhood-vaccination.png)

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

cf. also https://www.moms.com/countries-vaccinating-mandatory/


This doesn't disprove that it's a conspiracy, of course. One could say that all these mandatory vaccinations were a pre-existing plot to take away people's freedom, and that the plot just continued under covid.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: dkabq on July 19, 2021, 08:43:15 PM
Pretty much every western European government, plus the US, Canada, and Australia have floated the idea of mandatory vaccination and vaccine passports. It's going to happen unless it's stopped. Every single one of these countries is in bed with the big tech companies that are eager to roll this out and all of our societies are dependent upon global capital that has its own objectives that are far removed from us remaining free and sovereign.

A large number of countries have had mandatory vaccination policies since before covid-19. Below is a map of countries with various mandatory childhood vaccinations, as an illustration.

(https://darkshire.net/jhkim/img/mandatory-childhood-vaccination.png)

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

cf. also https://www.moms.com/countries-vaccinating-mandatory/


This doesn't disprove that it's a conspiracy, of course. One could say that all these mandatory vaccinations were a pre-existing plot to take away people's freedom, and that the plot just continued under covid.

How many of those mandatory childhood vaccinations are only authorized for emergency use? And how many of the makers of those vaccines have been made immune from lawsuits related to vaccine side effects?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: moonsweeper on July 19, 2021, 09:41:48 PM
Pretty much every western European government, plus the US, Canada, and Australia have floated the idea of mandatory vaccination and vaccine passports. It's going to happen unless it's stopped. Every single one of these countries is in bed with the big tech companies that are eager to roll this out and all of our societies are dependent upon global capital that has its own objectives that are far removed from us remaining free and sovereign.

A large number of countries have had mandatory vaccination policies since before covid-19. Below is a map of countries with various mandatory childhood vaccinations, as an illustration.

(https://darkshire.net/jhkim/img/mandatory-childhood-vaccination.png)

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

cf. also https://www.moms.com/countries-vaccinating-mandatory/


This doesn't disprove that it's a conspiracy, of course. One could say that all these mandatory vaccinations were a pre-existing plot to take away people's freedom, and that the plot just continued under covid.


You might be able to say that, but since they are technically not 'vaccines' that is kind of a stretch...


Can somebody break down the conspiracy to produce a global social credit & surveillance network? Who is behind it, why they want to do it and most importantly how are they coordinating it through all the different countries involved. It just sounds so unlikely on so many levels compared to there being an actual pandemic that actually managed to kill people and badly affect health services that were already near capacity.

The view that I've often seen is that the Chinese have not only made the World Health Organization into their puppet, but also the U.S. CDC. That theory starts to get thin when they have to say that China also controls the health officials of essentially every other country in the world, from Chile to Israel to South Korea to India to Australia.

There are a huge number of countries who have all agreed that covid-19 is a deadly pandemic; enforced measures like social distancing, lockdowns, and/or masking; and also engaged in vaccination campaigns. There are minor variations in each government's approach, but none of them fit the narrative of the pandemic or vaccination being a massive lie.


Come one, lets walk this "conspiracy theory" back a little here.  There is no evidence that just because the US funded the Wuhan Virus Research Laboratory in direct violation of the Senates ban on Gain of function research that the top US health officials have any reason at all to collude with either China and or the WHO.

Frankly I expected better from you mr jhkim.


In one of my favorites from the 'couldn't make this up if you tried' category...let us not forget what Tony Fauci's wife does for a living...

Quote
Dr Grady, 68, is a nurse-bioethicist who is currently Chief of the Department of Bioethics at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Clinical Center.





Yeah, Moonsweeper! I bet if every one of the medical "experts" and government officials that were lying through their teeth all of this time, if they would be singing a different tune if they were being beaten for their lying with a lead pipe? And heavily fined for their gross deception and collusion? Beat them over and over again.

Yes, because beating people with lead pipes is a good way to get to the truth.  ::)

That is silly.  Everybody knows you only get the 'answers' you are leading to if you beat them while asking questions...plus you have to work in cycles and make sure to keep them alive.

...its much easier to round them up, put a recording device in front of them, tell them they are free to say whatever is on their minds, and then work their children or grandchildren over with a blowtorch.  Takes much less effort, provides open ended information and you don't have to worry about accidentally killing the people with the info...   ;D
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2021, 10:09:45 PM
There should be a term for the inverse of the Motte and Bailey fallacy.

Just because some people believe in a Cobra Commander-esque conspiracy theory, doesn't mean that powerful people and organizations aren't manipulating events for their own ends.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.
Rahm Emanuel"
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 19, 2021, 10:21:46 PM
No one disputes that vaccines have been mandatory before. But we've never seen a response like this before, particularly if you compare Covid to illnesses with similar threat profile. In particular, we've never seen (to my knowledge) attempts like the coordinated efforts to conceal the virus' (most-probable) origins in the lab, coordinated efforts like publishing fake studies to discredit alternative treatments, questionable data collection methodology (continuing even to this day with different guidelines for PCR testing among v vs. non-v subjects), coordinated censorship & intimidation of scientists and physicians, deliberate efforts by politicians & state-directed propagandists to maximize panic and fear, etc.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2021, 10:39:39 PM
Pretty much every western European government, plus the US, Canada, and Australia have floated the idea of mandatory vaccination and vaccine passports. It's going to happen unless it's stopped. Every single one of these countries is in bed with the big tech companies that are eager to roll this out and all of our societies are dependent upon global capital that has its own objectives that are far removed from us remaining free and sovereign.

A large number of countries have had mandatory vaccination policies since before covid-19. Below is a map of countries with various mandatory childhood vaccinations, as an illustration.

(https://darkshire.net/jhkim/img/mandatory-childhood-vaccination.png)

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

cf. also https://www.moms.com/countries-vaccinating-mandatory/


This doesn't disprove that it's a conspiracy, of course. One could say that all these mandatory vaccinations were a pre-existing plot to take away people's freedom, and that the plot just continued under covid.

How many of those mandatory childhood vaccinations are only authorized for emergency use? And how many of the makers of those vaccines have been made immune from lawsuits related to vaccine side effects?

Can't hammer this point home hard enough. People rarely talk about the PREP act that protects the US Government and the pharmecutical companies from responsibility for unforseen side effects from the vaccine. That the vaccines still only have emergency approval, and that the DOL and OSHA are refusing to take reports of vaccine side effects from workers.

Those are my three main concerns and why I have not taken these vaccinations yet. And the manner in which the government goes forward with rectifying these issues, if they ever do.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: jhkim on July 20, 2021, 01:51:51 PM
Just because some people believe in a Cobra Commander-esque conspiracy theory, doesn't mean that powerful people and organizations aren't manipulating events for their own ends.

I agree. But it's people from all sides who are trying to manipulate events for their own ends - not just one side or the other. That includes those who are promoting these Cobra-Commander-eseque conspiracy theories, and politically benefiting from them. Everyone wants to justify and look good in how they have dealt with covid.


Pretty much every western European government, plus the US, Canada, and Australia have floated the idea of mandatory vaccination and vaccine passports. It's going to happen unless it's stopped. Every single one of these countries is in bed with the big tech companies that are eager to roll this out and all of our societies are dependent upon global capital that has its own objectives that are far removed from us remaining free and sovereign.
No one disputes that vaccines have been mandatory before. But we've never seen a response like this before, particularly if you compare Covid to illnesses with similar threat profile.

My understanding of your point was that making the covid vaccine mandatory was itself taking away people's freedom and sovereignty -- i.e. that it's totalitarian control. The point becomes a lot less forceful if you're saying "Totalitarian control is fine as long as it's for the right reasons with established vaccines, but it's not justified in the case of the covid."

That sounds a lot like "Totalitarian control is OK as long as the government only goes after the bad people."


That's the root of the question. Is it totalitarian overreach for the government to require a vaccine? If you're OK with imposition of other vaccines, then your problem isn't with the government totalitarian control - it's just that you disagree with their decision. Personally, I'm against vaccines being completely mandatory, but I think it's OK for there to be broad restrictions on unvaccinated people like "you can't work as a doctor or teacher without being vaccinated".
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 20, 2021, 05:15:34 PM
The vaccines do not alter the DNA of those that take it. That's the kind of bullshit disinformation that hurts people.

Are you a liar or ignorant? They cause the recipient to manufacture spike proteins. Forever.

No one is being hurt if they avoid this completely unnecessary intervention for a harmless virus.

It's funny, us "sheep" only need to wear masks to protect knobs like you who won't get vaccinated!

Uh, no, I don't need any "protection" thanks, my immune system works. Never mind that masks do fuck all.

You'll be very glad of us unvaccinated in the autumn when your compromised immune system causes you to get seriously ill from whatever new strains of respiratory virus arise.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: palaeomerus on July 20, 2021, 05:38:05 PM
In north central Austin, there is a small FLGS called Outlaw Moon which is kind of an outgrowth of Austin Books which has been around most of my life in various incarnations. They have some old D&D stuff bagged and boarded. I bought a friend of mine a Hollow World Box set gently used there. Other wise I mostly bought dice, deepcuts/Nolzur's or Imperial Assault minis there.

I went by there a week ago after COOF and they still have their 3 people only inside and wear your mask signs up. Now Austin has since rescinded that long after the governor did the one for the state(Austin is being stubborn and political) and right then and there I decided that store is dead to me.

That's too bad as Dragon's Lair, my other long time FLGS that changed owners, is pretty much run by the distributor's pick list and and is now a McGeekStore full of pops, manga, comics no one looks at, the new items of the week shelf, 40K & AOS down one wall, some token Malifaux, and a tiny two shelf unit section of rpgs that is mostly 5th core books with a couple of things like Tasha's cauldron, and some FFG starwars, Fate, and Pathfinder two on the 2nd shelving unit. It reminds me of a water bear without water shrinking down into a tiny husk state until the water comes back. There is a clix/MtG ghetto in the back by the snacks. Everyone in the store at tables plays 40K with one stubborn group who still plays X-Wing or Armada. The rivet counter Bolt Action guys are long gone.

So Outlaw Moon was the hope for older grungier stuff I could put my hands on. The GW store is a tiny strip mall thing across town and I'm too old to haunt that anyway. There is a GameKastle that opened in Pflugerville but it's mostly table top wargamey and it too suffers from the McGeekStore syndrome only GW swings the BD not Chessex or some other distributor groups.

So maybe it's over. Maybe it is time to build an arched cabin in my yard and set it up like a bar/grill and start looking for grey dice pals to come clubhouse with me on weekends. Or maybe that's a great way to get killed by a psycho with a carpet knife. Who knows.

I just know I got my vax and I'm not wearing a mask because some beardy or green hair behind a register says so to buy over priced plastic and perfect bound trapper keeper doodle collection nonsense with a table on one side.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: palaeomerus on July 20, 2021, 05:48:02 PM
There should be a term for the inverse of the Motte and Bailey fallacy.


It's the guilt by association fallacy. There is a kook who said what you did so you are a kook. What was said gets overlooked by who said it and the only offered means of discrediting you is associating you with the kook. So if Alex Jones tells you not to smoke in bed, that means anyone who doesn't smoke in bed is enthralled by the kook Alex Jones.

I think of it as the "you touched the poop" fallacy.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 20, 2021, 06:01:49 PM
You'll be very glad of us unvaccinated in the autumn when your compromised immune system causes you to get seriously ill from whatever new strains of respiratory virus arise.

Or, more likely, we'll be cursing you as selfish c***ts when a new, more deadly variant has developed in the unvaccinated and is wiping out the whole of humanity! Still, if that's the case you probably won't be around to hear it, as you'll be long dead!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 20, 2021, 06:10:33 PM
Or, more likely, we'll be cursing you as selfish c***ts when a new, more deadly variant has developed in the unvaccinated and is wiping out the whole of humanity! Still, if that's the case you probably won't be around to hear it, as you'll be long dead!

No, you thick cunt, that's not how it works. All you vaxxed morons are fostering the mutations, by providing the evolutionary pressure for the virus to mutate in a particular direction.

And I'm not the one who's immune system has been compromised by antibody dependent enhancement. Or microscopic damage to my vascular system from the spike proteins.

I've had covid, I'm immune (I've had plenty of other sniffles in the last year too, my immune system hasn't been suppressed by hiding away from the world). The real sort of broad spectrum immunity, not just a fake immunity to the protein spike.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 20, 2021, 06:13:33 PM
https://www.nber.org/papers/w28110

Working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research analyzes news coverage of covid-19. A couple key conclusions:
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 20, 2021, 06:36:26 PM
The vaccines do not alter the DNA of those that take it. That's the kind of bullshit disinformation that hurts people.

Are you a liar or ignorant? They cause the recipient to manufacture spike proteins. Forever.

No one is being hurt if they avoid this completely unnecessary intervention for a harmless virus.

It's funny, us "sheep" only need to wear masks to protect knobs like you who won't get vaccinated!

Uh, no, I don't need any "protection" thanks, my immune system works. Never mind that masks do fuck all.

You'll be very glad of us unvaccinated in the autumn when your compromised immune system causes you to get seriously ill from whatever new strains of respiratory virus arise.
I am neither ignorant nor a liar. You, however, do not appear to have any understanding of how the vaccines and spike proteins actually work. You really should educate yourself, but by all means, just go on showing what a dipshit conspiracy theorist you really are.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 20, 2021, 06:39:29 PM
Are you a liar or ignorant? They cause the recipient to manufacture spike proteins. Forever.
Actually, you are the liar or ignorant or both, as the spike proteins are only created when the vaccine is administered: then your immune system reacts to them and destroys them all within a few weeks. Your immune system then remembers this intrusion and reacts appropriately when you catch the real thing.

Spike proteins and mRNA do not alter your DNA as they never reach the nucleus (where DNA is stored) of the affected cells only working in the cytoplasm (the gelatinous liquid that fills the inside of a cell). The nucleus itself is separated from the cytoplasm by a protective membrane.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 20, 2021, 06:46:49 PM
You'll be very glad of us unvaccinated in the autumn when your compromised immune system causes you to get seriously ill from whatever new strains of respiratory virus arise.

Or, more likely, we'll be cursing you as selfish c***ts when a new, more deadly variant has developed in the unvaccinated and is wiping out the whole of humanity! Still, if that's the case you probably won't be around to hear it, as you'll be long dead!

Can you at least pretend to follow the science?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 20, 2021, 07:23:27 PM
You'll be very glad of us unvaccinated in the autumn when your compromised immune system causes you to get seriously ill from whatever new strains of respiratory virus arise.

Or, more likely, we'll be cursing you as selfish c***ts when a new, more deadly variant has developed in the unvaccinated and is wiping out the whole of humanity! Still, if that's the case you probably won't be around to hear it, as you'll be long dead!

Can you at least pretend to follow the science?
No, they can't.  "Science" is simple an authority to appeal to when it provides support for what they want, and something to ignore when it can't be warped to their purposes.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 20, 2021, 10:47:13 PM
I am neither ignorant nor a liar. You, however, do not appear to have any understanding of how the vaccines and spike proteins actually work. You really should educate yourself, but by all means, just go on showing what a dipshit conspiracy theorist you really are.

Dr. Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA vaccines, disagrees with you.



https://rumble.com/vjicbh-dr-robert-malone-mrna-vaccine-inventor-on-vaccines-bioethics-the-ultimate-g.html (https://rumble.com/vjicbh-dr-robert-malone-mrna-vaccine-inventor-on-vaccines-bioethics-the-ultimate-g.html)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 05:10:46 AM
You'd believe this man..? Fact checked:

https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 05:12:30 AM
Double post!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: dkabq on July 21, 2021, 07:49:05 AM
You'd believe this man..? Fact checked:

https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone

More like crap fact checked. Take this one:
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/18ec6dcd

It completely ignores the crux of the argument of children and adolescents not needing to get vaccinated because few die and most only suffer mild symptoms, and that hence, it can be argued that the unknown, long-risk of an experimental vaccine outweighs its benefit. Especially as the government has absolved itself and the pharma companies from any responsibility if taking the vaccine goes tits-up for you. If you are going to play the "for the greater good" argument, then those that are negatively impacted should be compensated by the rest of us.

Rather, it scare-mongers by highlighting the low-probability/high-consequence tail of the distribution. I do agree that if a child suffers from at-risk underlying conditions, then the risk/reward balance can change, and ought to be factored into the vaccination decision.

Also, their argument regarding vaccination and spreading is specious:
"Adolescents can also transmit the virus to other people, even if they have mild symptoms or do not feel ill. If children and adolescents get vaccinated, it will prevent severe symptoms and dramatically decrease their chances of transmitting the virus."

This ignores that the risk of spread from children is minimal. Spread is notionally correlated with degree of symptoms, which in the vast majority of children are mild to none, which in turn is notionally correlated with viral load. This is the same way that the risk of spread is reduced from people that have gotten natural immunity (by having had and recovered from COVID) or been vaccinated. So once again, for the vast majority of children, there is little "reward" to justify the (albeit unknown) long-term risk of an experimental vaccine.

Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 21, 2021, 09:19:19 AM
You'd believe this man..? Fact checked:

https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone

More like crap fact checked. Take this one:
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/18ec6dcd

I didn't make it past their first lie that Dr. Malone claimed to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines. He's been very careful to aknowledge that there were multiple people in the field, and he wasn't the only one working in that area.
The article is a bad hit piece, as if the childish red line through a picture of Dr. Malone wasn't enough of a clue.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 21, 2021, 09:34:34 AM
I am neither ignorant nor a liar. You, however, do not appear to have any understanding of how the vaccines and spike proteins actually work. You really should educate yourself, but by all means, just go on showing what a dipshit conspiracy theorist you really are.

Don't worry, we'll find out in a few months time. Good luck!

Actually, you are the liar or ignorant or both, as the spike proteins are only created when the vaccine is administered: then your immune system reacts to them and destroys them all within a few weeks. Your immune system then remembers this intrusion and reacts appropriately when you catch the real thing.

Spike proteins and mRNA do not alter your DNA as they never reach the nucleus (where DNA is stored) of the affected cells only working in the cytoplasm (the gelatinous liquid that fills the inside of a cell). The nucleus itself is separated from the cytoplasm by a protective membrane.

Bullshit, autopsies of vaccinated people find the spike proteins all over their bodies, months after their jabs. Including crossing the blood-brain barrier. They seem to love congregating in the ovaries, but of course they have no impact on fertility at all!

You'd believe this man..? Fact checked:

https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone

Oh, how quaint, you think I believe "fact checkers".

Don't think I haven't noticed your mysterious appearance a few days ago, and the fact that the only thread you've posted in is this one.

Can you at least pretend to follow the science?

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8eed8620c6c0174e6ec4e89527392ccc19c560b9f21c294cc9be319a1d38a24f.jpg?fbclid=IwAR19OxGb-P3OZSi61nueyTxva8HAXgpgmJL0u1snYTGxorc6xHlxFM6puIw)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on July 21, 2021, 10:19:48 AM
US life expectancy in 2020 saw biggest drop since WWII
 (https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-fac0863b8c252d21d6f6a22a2e3eab86)

Soft, "but it was the lockdowns that did it" response even though life expectancy dropped in states with the least amount of lockdowns as well in 3...2....1...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: wlake.gmtn on July 21, 2021, 10:33:37 AM
basically i wonder how the future epidemics are going to be different from covid. makes me think of eclipse phase which has all the concomitant ideas about what the future is really gonna be like. never read asimov but the idea of tech interacting with bio is pretty interesting but further than a neuromancer comparison. basically i think the wipes smell a little better than the hand sanitizer but the epidemics are gonna keep happening like ice ages. it's interesting that covid was the first major one but then again we don't live in the past so you never know how medievals treated protocol in the aftermath or beginning of the Black Death.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 21, 2021, 11:01:41 AM
basically i wonder how the future epidemics are going to be different from covid. makes me think of eclipse phase which has all the concomitant ideas about what the future is really gonna be like. never read asimov but the idea of tech interacting with bio is pretty interesting but further than a neuromancer comparison. basically i think the wipes smell a little better than the hand sanitizer but the epidemics are gonna keep happening like ice ages. it's interesting that covid was the first major one but then again we don't live in the past so you never know how medievals treated protocol in the aftermath or beginning of the Black Death.

Covid wasn't a major epidemic. It was a nothing burger compared to the real sort, which is why they had to do their utmost to artificially inflate the apparent death figures and constantly advertise the "threat".

The only thing I find frightening is that governments have now learned just how spineless and pliant the majority are, that they can make them do pretty much what they want and they will offer no resistance whatsoever.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: dkabq on July 21, 2021, 11:04:28 AM
FWIW...
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/files/alabama-preliminary-injunction/
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 11:26:49 AM

Don't think I haven't noticed your mysterious appearance a few days ago, and the fact that the only thread you've posted in is this one.


Well, I've only been registered on this forum for EIGHT months, true... and I did post back in May in 'Other Games': so who made a dipshit like you God and gave you the right to insinuate or presume anything about me?
In your own way, you're as bad as those SJW twats on TBP who only allow people to speak if they think the prescribed "right thoughts"! I thought this forum was the last gaming bastion of anti-woke freedom, not the gathering place for every anti-vax extremist who rolled a die to twist facts and dictate how the rest of the world should think!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 21, 2021, 11:29:09 AM
Well, I've only been registered on this forum for EIGHT months, true... and I did post back in May in 'Other Games': so who made a dipshit like you God and gave you the right to insinuate or presume anything about me?
In your own way, you're as bad as those SJW twats on TBP who only allow people to speak if they think the prescribed "right thoughts"! I thought this forum was the last gaming bastion of anti-woke freedom, not the gathering place for every anti-vax extremist who rolled a die to twist facts and dictate how the rest of the world should think!

I've seen plenty of bad actors around places like this and social media. Strange that you aren't really interested in roleplaying games, but suddenly took a great interest in this one topic...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 11:40:33 AM
I've seen plenty of bad actors around places like this and social media. Strange that you aren't really interested in roleplaying games, but suddenly took a great interest in this one topic...

True, I don't post very much on any gaming forum I'm on, and I don't get time to play nowadays... but there we go again: presuming you know everything about me based on half a dozen posts.

It must be wonderful to be omniscient!
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 11:43:43 AM
I got this kind of treatment on TBP for supporting Brexit, I expected better from people on this site!  :)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 12:11:57 PM
I got this kind of treatment on TBP for supporting Brexit, I expected better from people on this site!  :)
Why? Dogpiling, ascribing people an entire edifice of beliefs based on a single objection, and assuming bad faith are the modi operandi of this site.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 21, 2021, 12:18:06 PM
I got this kind of treatment on TBP for supporting Brexit, I expected better from people on this site!  :)

Dude. You just went for the "You're just as bad as the SJWs!" nonsense. Get off your high horse.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 12:40:47 PM

Dude. You just went for the "You're just as bad as the SJWs!" nonsense. Get off your high horse.

I thought the  :)  would show my comment was not to be taken seriously. 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 12:45:16 PM
I got this kind of treatment on TBP for supporting Brexit, I expected better from people on this site!  :)
Why? Dogpiling, ascribing people an entire edifice of beliefs based on a single objection, and assuming bad faith are the modi operandi of this site.
Though being accused, indirectly or otherwise, of being some kind of woke sock-puppet because I don't post much would wind anyone up!

NOW, I understand it can happen to anyone! 😁
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 21, 2021, 01:26:06 PM
Though being accused, indirectly or otherwise, of being some kind of woke sock-puppet because I don't post much would wind anyone up!

NOW, I understand it can happen to anyone! 😁

I wasn't accusing you of being a woke sock-puppet. I was accusing you of being a paid shill. There are plenty of them about.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Though being accused, indirectly or otherwise, of being some kind of woke sock-puppet because I don't post much would wind anyone up!

NOW, I understand it can happen to anyone! 😁

I wasn't accusing you of being a woke sock-puppet. I was accusing you of being a paid shill. There are plenty of them about.

Oh, I wish... I could do with some extra income!

That accusation actually winds me up as much as woke sock-puppet. 🖕
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on July 21, 2021, 01:51:59 PM
basically i wonder how the future epidemics are going to be different from covid. makes me think of eclipse phase which has all the concomitant ideas about what the future is really gonna be like. never read asimov but the idea of tech interacting with bio is pretty interesting but further than a neuromancer comparison. basically i think the wipes smell a little better than the hand sanitizer but the epidemics are gonna keep happening like ice ages. it's interesting that covid was the first major one but then again we don't live in the past so you never know how medievals treated protocol in the aftermath or beginning of the Black Death.

Covid wasn't a major epidemic. It was a nothing burger compared to the real sort, which is why they had to do their utmost to artificially inflate the apparent death figures and constantly advertise the "threat".

The only thing I find frightening is that governments have now learned just how spineless and pliant the majority are, that they can make them do pretty much what they want and they will offer no resistance whatsoever.

So, immediately with the fake news. Highest mortality rate since WW2, and you immediately go to claiming it was artificially inflated death figures. Facts will not get in the way of your beliefs.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on July 21, 2021, 01:56:43 PM
'I'm sorry but it's too late' - unvaccinated patients beg for shot; (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/21/covid-vaccine-delta-variant-mask-cdc-hospitalizations/8035920002/)

An Alabama physician glumly says she is making "a lot of progress" in encouraging people to vaccinate – as she struggles to keep them alive.

Dr. Brytney Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, wrote in a recent Facebook post she is treating a lot of young, otherwise healthy people for serious coronavirus infections.

"One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine," she wrote. "I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late."

In her post, Cobia wrote that, when the patient dies, she hugs their family members and urges them to get vaccinated. She said they cry and tell her they thought the pandemic was a "hoax," or "political," or targeting some other age group or skin color.

"They wish they could go back. But they can't," Cobia wrote. "So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives."
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 21, 2021, 01:59:50 PM
'I'm sorry but it's too late' - unvaccinated patients beg for shot; (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/21/covid-vaccine-delta-variant-mask-cdc-hospitalizations/8035920002/)

An Alabama physician glumly says she is making "a lot of progress" in encouraging people to vaccinate – as she struggles to keep them alive.

Dr. Brytney Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, wrote in a recent Facebook post she is treating a lot of young, otherwise healthy people for serious coronavirus infections.

"One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine," she wrote. "I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late."

In her post, Cobia wrote that, when the patient dies, she hugs their family members and urges them to get vaccinated. She said they cry and tell her they thought the pandemic was a "hoax," or "political," or targeting some other age group or skin color.

"They wish they could go back. But they can't," Cobia wrote. "So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives."
Exactly what good is a goddamn vaccine going to do for someone who's terminal as she describes?

God damn this is why USA Today is shit. They play this like 'oh look at this heartless Alabama doctor', when holy fuckballs if they're that bad off, a vaccine isn't going to help them.

(If you want to argue that ivermectin/HCQ could help, that's a different angle.)
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Mistwell on July 21, 2021, 02:53:41 PM
Exactly what good is a goddamn vaccine going to do for someone who's terminal as she describes?

 It won't do any good, of course. That's what she tells them. Then she gives the vaccine to the rest of the family who didn't have Covid.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 03:11:41 PM
The shamdemic will only end when the people stop it.

Preferably in blood.

And punish not just the politicians and the press who spread the WuFlu bullshit and the fear, but for every fucking loser with an ounce of power to force children to suffer with masks and panic that will cost them so dearly in mental and emotional damage for the rest of their lives.

But definitely go get your experimental vax so you can win your most deserved place in the VAERS lottery.

Oh look, a CDC whistleblower says the vax death count is 45,000 in a new lawsuit
https://freedomfirstnetwork.com/2021/07/lawsuit-filed-today-accusing-government-of-hiding-more-than-45000-dead-americans-from-the-jab (https://freedomfirstnetwork.com/2021/07/lawsuit-filed-today-accusing-government-of-hiding-more-than-45000-dead-americans-from-the-jab)

Although 45k is rookie numbers. The experimental gene therapy might become a real hoot in the medium and long term if the previous animal tests of mRNA have any bearing on the future.

But don't expect a drop of sympathy from us in the "control group".
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 21, 2021, 03:24:20 PM
'I'm sorry but it's too late' - unvaccinated patients beg for shot; (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/21/covid-vaccine-delta-variant-mask-cdc-hospitalizations/8035920002/)

An Alabama physician glumly says she is making "a lot of progress" in encouraging people to vaccinate – as she struggles to keep them alive.

Dr. Brytney Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, wrote in a recent Facebook post she is treating a lot of young, otherwise healthy people for serious coronavirus infections.

"One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine," she wrote. "I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late."

In her post, Cobia wrote that, when the patient dies, she hugs their family members and urges them to get vaccinated. She said they cry and tell her they thought the pandemic was a "hoax," or "political," or targeting some other age group or skin color.

"They wish they could go back. But they can't," Cobia wrote. "So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives."

And then everyone on the bus clapped.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Zelen on July 21, 2021, 04:00:18 PM
My understanding of your point was that making the covid vaccine mandatory was itself taking away people's freedom and sovereignty -- i.e. that it's totalitarian control. The point becomes a lot less forceful if you're saying "Totalitarian control is fine as long as it's for the right reasons with established vaccines, but it's not justified in the case of the covid."

That sounds a lot like "Totalitarian control is OK as long as the government only goes after the bad people."


That's the root of the question. Is it totalitarian overreach for the government to require a vaccine? If you're OK with imposition of other vaccines, then your problem isn't with the government totalitarian control - it's just that you disagree with their decision. Personally, I'm against vaccines being completely mandatory, but I think it's OK for there to be broad restrictions on unvaccinated people like "you can't work as a doctor or teacher without being vaccinated".

The entire last year has been demolishing brick by brick any trust I have remaining in institutions. So, do I currently support mandatory vaccination? Absolutely not. This has obviously only been revealed as a crucial issue in the last year.

Like many people I was fairly passive in accepting the conventional belief (without evidence) that vaccines were crucial for keeping us safe from pestilences of the past like smallpox, etc. Of course becoming more skeptical of transparent lies that government & medical authorities are promoting regarding C-19 also extends towards other topics. For example, CDC  (https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/history.html)& at least one JAMA paper provide compelling historical data over decades demonstrating many diseases were almost entirely eliminated by water & sewage sanitation practices, not vaccines (the vaccines didn't even exist until the diseases were mostly eliminated).

Assuming we are ever able to dig ourselves out of this totalitarian nightmare* it's worth rethinking a few things.

* Consider that in Sydney Australia, ONE 80 year old person died and now the entire city is locked down.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 21, 2021, 04:54:27 PM
I got this kind of treatment on TBP for supporting Brexit, I expected better from people on this site!  :)
Why? Dogpiling, ascribing people an entire edifice of beliefs based on a single objection, and assuming bad faith are the modi operandi of this site.

On the contrary, we all agreed that civil and rational discussion was the modus operandi of this site.

Though being accused, indirectly or otherwise, of being some kind of woke sock-puppet because I don't post much would wind anyone up!

NOW, I understand it can happen to anyone! 😁

I wasn't accusing you of being a woke sock-puppet. I was accusing you of being a paid shill. There are plenty of them about.

Wait, there are people being paid to do this?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 21, 2021, 05:01:58 PM
You'd believe this man..? Fact checked:

https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone

For a second I thought you were going to use science to back up your claims but alas.

At least jhkim uses an allergist to back up his medical claims.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 21, 2021, 05:09:46 PM
Wait, there are people being paid to do this?

Yes.  In fact a few people here admitted they make money off from the covid.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 21, 2021, 05:32:29 PM
Wait, there are people being paid to do this?

Yes.  In fact a few people here admitted they make money off from the covid.

That was just Happydaze though, right?

I thought people were getting paid to post here.  Maybe I can get some of that sweet sweet pro-CCP 50 cent army money?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 05:34:49 PM

So, immediately with the fake news. Highest mortality rate since WW2, and you immediately go to claiming it was artificially inflated death figures. Facts will not get in the way of your beliefs.
The Hong Kong flu in 1967 killed up to 4 million people, and the world's population was less than half today's. When adjusted for population, that's more than twice the death toll of covid-19 so far. So the fake news is flatly and absolutely stating that covid-19 is the worst since WW2.

The most accurate statement is that covid-19 is much less dangerous than the 1918 pandemic, but so far is roughly equivalent to the next tier of pandemics that occurred in the 20th century.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 05:47:35 PM
Oh look, a CDC whistleblower says the vax death count is 45,000 in a new lawsuit
https://freedomfirstnetwork.com/2021/07/lawsuit-filed-today-accusing-government-of-hiding-more-than-45000-dead-americans-from-the-jab (https://freedomfirstnetwork.com/2021/07/lawsuit-filed-today-accusing-government-of-hiding-more-than-45000-dead-americans-from-the-jab)

Although 45k is rookie numbers. The experimental gene therapy might become a real hoot in the medium and long term if the previous animal tests of mRNA have any bearing on the future.
That's roughly consistent with earlier estimates. Back when the number of deaths reported to VAERS was about 4K, some experts were estimating the real number of death was about 20K. Since the number of VAERS deaths has recently spiked, the 45K could be a projection based on anywhere from 8K to more than 11K reported deaths. It's important to realize these aren't solid numbers, though. They're guesses based on a voluntary self-reporting system. Since they're not tracking every case, we don't know. Though if anything, they're probably lowballing it. For most vaccines, they typically assume only about 1 in 100 deaths are reported to VAERs. This is more in the 5:1 range.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 21, 2021, 06:05:54 PM
Though being accused, indirectly or otherwise, of being some kind of woke sock-puppet because I don't post much would wind anyone up!

NOW, I understand it can happen to anyone! 😁

I wasn't accusing you of being a woke sock-puppet. I was accusing you of being a paid shill. There are plenty of them about.

This runs deep with you if you think he's being paid to post about this shit on an obscure message board of an obscure hobby.

OTOH you're a great person for explaining the actual conspiracy to me. We're both in the UK so we've both watched the shambolic reaction to covid-19. There's been fuck all consistency in any messaging, desperate last minute reactions and loads of tory political infighting. Cummings was on the telly just the other night getting the knife in on his former boss.


To be fair the grift has been big on this one but that strikes me as normal opportunism from our ruling party.

So given the initial denying of the problem, the panicked lockdown, the swift reopenings before more panicked lockdown where is the organised conspiracy to subjugate the population? How is Boris working with all these other countries in the great plan? People are right in saying that just because something sounds nuts it doesn't mean it isn't true but let's have a narrative here that's approaching convincing. Go nuts, or more nuts, with bullet points and stuff.

The possible dangers of the vaccines is a dead end for this BTW. I disagree with you based on the evidence I've seen and talking to medical professionals but even if I agreed I'd go with the panicked and shambolic reaction to a pandemic as a reason.

Bonus points if you can avoid calling anybody a cunt. You're overusing it, it's a spice not a main ingredient.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 21, 2021, 06:07:46 PM
So, immediately with the fake news. Highest mortality rate since WW2, and you immediately go to claiming it was artificially inflated death figures. Facts will not get in the way of your beliefs.

Bollocks. Provide me with death figures counted in the normal way, not this "positive PCR test within 28 days of death" shit, and we'll talk.

One Birmingham trust here in the UK provided the actual numbers killed by, not merely with covid. 98% of those counted as "with" were actually killed by their underlying conditions.

(If you want to argue that ivermectin/HCQ could help, that's a different angle.)

Which is the real crime here. Known treatments that are effective and safe, which were deliberately withheld because they don't make big bucks for Big Pharma. The secret of the turnaround in Indian "cases" was that in January they banned the use of Ivermectin in some states, and strangely enough infections spiked alongside the vaccine rollout. Then as soon as they resumed it's use, they fell again.

That's without touching the euthanising of old people in care homes at the height of the crisis. It'll come out eventually, why UK care homes were suddenly using significantly more Midazolam than they usually do (as instructed to by the DHSC).
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Kiero on July 21, 2021, 06:08:30 PM
If it weren't bad enough that there are all these side effects of the "vaccines", they don't fucking work. Latest Public Health England report showed 62.9% of all patients hospitalised with covid were double-jabbed (higher than their proportion of the population). In Israel that number is 84%.

Given these therapeutics were sold as "reducing symptoms" (because they don't provide actual immunity like real vaccines do), looks like they can't even do that.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 21, 2021, 06:27:44 PM
This runs deep with you if you think he's being paid to post about this shit on an obscure message board of an obscure hobby.

OTOH you're a great person for explaining the actual conspiracy to me. We're both in the UK so we've both watched the shambolic reaction to covid-19. There's been fuck all consistency in any messaging, desperate last minute reactions and loads of tory political infighting. Cummings was on the telly just the other night getting the knife in on his former boss.


To be fair the grift has been big on this one but that strikes me as normal opportunism from our ruling party.

So given the initial denying of the problem, the panicked lockdown, the swift reopenings before more panicked lockdown where is the organised conspiracy to subjugate the population? How is Boris working with all these other countries in the great plan? People are right in saying that just because something sounds nuts it doesn't mean it isn't true but let's have a narrative here that's approaching convincing. Go nuts, or more nuts, with bullet points and stuff.

The possible dangers of the vaccines is a dead end for this BTW. I disagree with you based on the evidence I've seen and talking to medical professionals but even if I agreed I'd go with the panicked and shambolic reaction to a pandemic as a reason.

Bonus points if you can avoid calling anybody a cunt. You're overusing it, it's a spice not a main ingredient.

Be a good boy, Garry, and go fuck yourself, you smug twat.

Glaikit Cuntybaws comes through. I'm totally convinced by the thorough answer you have provided. It's like a PowerPoint for gadjes.

Joshing aside, I know you throw second-rate abuse out of love, this is your problem. I'm willing to give you space to put aside some things we disagree on and explain the core conspiracy and your biggest achievement is finding a different word for cunt. This is the most disruptive event we've experienced in our lives so far, climate change may be worse, and you just whine about a conspiracy without being able to give any idea of what it is.

I'll give you a made up one for free. The deliberate shambles was made up to cover the short term effects of Brexit on trade. It's bullshit, there is enough truth there in that all the disruption did cover stuff and it plays to the governments base.

See how easy it is?
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 21, 2021, 06:43:40 PM
You'd believe this man..? Fact checked:

https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone

More like crap fact checked. Take this one:
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/18ec6dcd

It completely ignores the crux of the argument of children and adolescents not needing to get vaccinated because few die and most only suffer mild symptoms, and that hence, it can be argued that the unknown, long-risk of an experimental vaccine outweighs its benefit. Especially as the government has absolved itself and the pharma companies from any responsibility if taking the vaccine goes tits-up for you. If you are going to play the "for the greater good" argument, then those that are negatively impacted should be compensated by the rest of us.

Rather, it scare-mongers by highlighting the low-probability/high-consequence tail of the distribution. I do agree that if a child suffers from at-risk underlying conditions, then the risk/reward balance can change, and ought to be factored into the vaccination decision.

Also, their argument regarding vaccination and spreading is specious:
"Adolescents can also transmit the virus to other people, even if they have mild symptoms or do not feel ill. If children and adolescents get vaccinated, it will prevent severe symptoms and dramatically decrease their chances of transmitting the virus."

This ignores that the risk of spread from children is minimal. Spread is notionally correlated with degree of symptoms, which in the vast majority of children are mild to none, which in turn is notionally correlated with viral load. This is the same way that the risk of spread is reduced from people that have gotten natural immunity (by having had and recovered from COVID) or been vaccinated. So once again, for the vast majority of children, there is little "reward" to justify the (albeit unknown) long-term risk of an experimental vaccine.

First of all, I can't find any information about who runs, sponsors, or operates "Logically," so I have no reason to trust them.  Any rando on the internet can "fact check."  But it's quite telling that, while they cite older CDC and FDA guidance, nowhere do they mention the recent determination by the JCVI:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people

So they omit facts that disagree with the narrative they support.  Hardly reliable...
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
If it weren't bad enough that there are all these side effects of the "vaccines", they don't fucking work. Latest Public Health England report showed 62.9% of all patients hospitalised with covid were double-jabbed (higher than their proportion of the population). In Israel that number is 84%.

Given these therapeutics were sold as "reducing symptoms" (because they don't provide actual immunity like real vaccines do), looks like they can't even do that.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vallance-corrects-mistake-to-say-60-of-people-being-admitted-to-hospital-with-coronavirus-are-unvaccinated-12359317

Try keeping up to date.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Garry G on July 21, 2021, 06:49:25 PM
If it weren't bad enough that there are all these side effects of the "vaccines", they don't fucking work. Latest Public Health England report showed 62.9% of all patients hospitalised with covid were double-jabbed (higher than their proportion of the population). In Israel that number is 84%.

Given these therapeutics were sold as "reducing symptoms" (because they don't provide actual immunity like real vaccines do), looks like they can't even do that.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vallance-corrects-mistake-to-say-60-of-people-being-admitted-to-hospital-with-coronavirus-are-unvaccinated-12359317

Try keeping up to date.

Yeah that was corrected pretty quickly
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: Shasarak on July 21, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
It will be interesting to see the difference in Wuhan virus infections between England and Scotland with the recent lifting of mandatory mask wearing in England after freedom day.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: martinjpayne on July 21, 2021, 07:08:04 PM
It will be interesting to see the difference in Wuhan virus infections between England and Scotland with the recent lifting of mandatory mask wearing in England after freedom day.
Agreed, it will give everyone a benchmark to work from.
Title: Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
Post by: HappyDaze on July 21, 2021, 07:20:16 PM