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Author Topic: Here's your Mask Protocol  (Read 31453 times)

rawma

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #615 on: August 14, 2021, 02:14:54 PM »
Meanwhile, the vaccines for polio, tetanus, measles and TB for the most part actually stop you getting infected. Small variations in individual biochemistry which mean some might not take, aside. Nice attempt to paint me as anti-vaccine, though.

The effectiveness of those vaccines is known the same way that the effectiveness of the COVID vaccines is known. You gave the impression that you reject any vaccine that isn't perfect, but I am satisfied that you are simply anti-science and not anti-vaccine, if you think that's somehow better.

In fairness, the CDC says the following about So many people rejecting proven vaccines this year were clamoring last year for hydroxychloroquine with only a little anecdotal evidence. SMH.

A treatment that actually works in practise, you mean? As opposed to non-vaccines that haven't even finished trials.

Actual studies say otherwise. But, unlike your nonsensical claims that COVID vaccines alter DNA, hydroxychloroquine could actually change your DNA.

https://keck.usc.edu/new-study-points-to-toxic-potential-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-mammalian-cells/

rawma

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #616 on: August 14, 2021, 02:55:32 PM »

So, immediately with the fake news. Highest mortality rate since WW2, and you immediately go to claiming it was artificially inflated death figures. Facts will not get in the way of your beliefs.
The Hong Kong flu in 1967 killed up to 4 million people, and the world's population was less than half today's. When adjusted for population, that's more than twice the death toll of covid-19 so far. So the fake news is flatly and absolutely stating that covid-19 is the worst since WW2.

The most accurate statement is that covid-19 is much less dangerous than the 1918 pandemic, but so far is roughly equivalent to the next tier of pandemics that occurred in the 20th century.

For past influenza seasons they start with reported deaths and then estimate total deaths. Comparisons of such totals with reported COVID deaths are not valid.
Quote
The root of such incorrect comparisons may be a knowledge gap regarding how seasonal influenza and COVID-19 data are publicly reported. The CDC, like many similar disease control agencies around the world, presents seasonal influenza morbidity and mortality not as raw counts but as calculated estimates based on submitted International Classification of Diseases codes. Between 2013-2014 and 2018-2019, the reported yearly estimated influenza deaths ranged from 23 000 to 61 000. Over that same time period, however, the number of counted influenza deaths was between 3448 and 15 620 yearly. On average, the CDC estimates of deaths attributed to influenza were nearly 6 times greater than its reported counted numbers. Conversely, COVID-19 fatalities are at present being counted and reported directly, not estimated.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121

IHME lists reported deaths as of 7/29 at over 4.2 million, but excess deaths at over 9 million. That doesn't include high end estimates for places like India, which may have undercounted by millions. WHO said in May the actual death count may be two to three times higher, https://www.reuters.com/world/covid-19-death-tolls-are-likely-significant-undercount-who-says-2021-05-21/ .

Pat

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #617 on: August 14, 2021, 04:04:05 PM »

So, immediately with the fake news. Highest mortality rate since WW2, and you immediately go to claiming it was artificially inflated death figures. Facts will not get in the way of your beliefs.
The Hong Kong flu in 1967 killed up to 4 million people, and the world's population was less than half today's. When adjusted for population, that's more than twice the death toll of covid-19 so far. So the fake news is flatly and absolutely stating that covid-19 is the worst since WW2.

The most accurate statement is that covid-19 is much less dangerous than the 1918 pandemic, but so far is roughly equivalent to the next tier of pandemics that occurred in the 20th century.

For past influenza seasons they start with reported deaths and then estimate total deaths. Comparisons of such totals with reported COVID deaths are not valid.
Quote
The root of such incorrect comparisons may be a knowledge gap regarding how seasonal influenza and COVID-19 data are publicly reported. The CDC, like many similar disease control agencies around the world, presents seasonal influenza morbidity and mortality not as raw counts but as calculated estimates based on submitted International Classification of Diseases codes. Between 2013-2014 and 2018-2019, the reported yearly estimated influenza deaths ranged from 23 000 to 61 000. Over that same time period, however, the number of counted influenza deaths was between 3448 and 15 620 yearly. On average, the CDC estimates of deaths attributed to influenza were nearly 6 times greater than its reported counted numbers. Conversely, COVID-19 fatalities are at present being counted and reported directly, not estimated.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121

IHME lists reported deaths as of 7/29 at over 4.2 million, but excess deaths at over 9 million. That doesn't include high end estimates for places like India, which may have undercounted by millions. WHO said in May the actual death count may be two to three times higher, https://www.reuters.com/world/covid-19-death-tolls-are-likely-significant-undercount-who-says-2021-05-21/ .
That's a reasonable argument, and you didn't lie once about anything I said.

Who are you, and what have you done with Rawma?

It's true the deaths in earlier pandemics are projections rather than a census, but that doesn't mean we can't compare the two. It just means we need to consider the relative degree of certainty.

I can buy some underreporting in Africa and India, and we know China is lying through their teeth about the number of cases, but we have pretty solid numbers for a lot of the world, and there are plausible reasons to explain why the number of cases in non-Western countries are legitimately much lower -- they're much younger and skinnier. We've known from the start that covid-19 is far more deadly the older you get, and it's becoming more and more clear than obesity is far and away the the most important co-morbidity. Africa is an absurdly young continent, and even the last surge in India was heavily focused on the urban Brahmins, who are much fatter and live longer than the rural population. I suspect the real answer will take years to sort out.

Kiero

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #618 on: August 14, 2021, 05:03:32 PM »
The effectiveness of those vaccines is known the same way that the effectiveness of the COVID vaccines is known. You gave the impression that you reject any vaccine that isn't perfect, but I am satisfied that you are simply anti-science and not anti-vaccine, if you think that's somehow better.

I don't give a fuck what box you're trying to put me in. Those are actual, proven vaccines that provide immunity. These therapeutic jabs do not.

Actual studies say otherwise. But, unlike your nonsensical claims that COVID vaccines alter DNA, hydroxychloroquine could actually change your DNA.

https://keck.usc.edu/new-study-points-to-toxic-potential-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-mammalian-cells/

Haha, another hack job by some group being funded by Big Pharma to cast doubt on any alternative to their cash cow?
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Eirikrautha

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #619 on: August 14, 2021, 05:07:23 PM »

So, immediately with the fake news. Highest mortality rate since WW2, and you immediately go to claiming it was artificially inflated death figures. Facts will not get in the way of your beliefs.
The Hong Kong flu in 1967 killed up to 4 million people, and the world's population was less than half today's. When adjusted for population, that's more than twice the death toll of covid-19 so far. So the fake news is flatly and absolutely stating that covid-19 is the worst since WW2.

The most accurate statement is that covid-19 is much less dangerous than the 1918 pandemic, but so far is roughly equivalent to the next tier of pandemics that occurred in the 20th century.

For past influenza seasons they start with reported deaths and then estimate total deaths. Comparisons of such totals with reported COVID deaths are not valid.
Quote
The root of such incorrect comparisons may be a knowledge gap regarding how seasonal influenza and COVID-19 data are publicly reported. The CDC, like many similar disease control agencies around the world, presents seasonal influenza morbidity and mortality not as raw counts but as calculated estimates based on submitted International Classification of Diseases codes. Between 2013-2014 and 2018-2019, the reported yearly estimated influenza deaths ranged from 23 000 to 61 000. Over that same time period, however, the number of counted influenza deaths was between 3448 and 15 620 yearly. On average, the CDC estimates of deaths attributed to influenza were nearly 6 times greater than its reported counted numbers. Conversely, COVID-19 fatalities are at present being counted and reported directly, not estimated.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121

IHME lists reported deaths as of 7/29 at over 4.2 million, but excess deaths at over 9 million. That doesn't include high end estimates for places like India, which may have undercounted by millions. WHO said in May the actual death count may be two to three times higher, https://www.reuters.com/world/covid-19-death-tolls-are-likely-significant-undercount-who-says-2021-05-21/ .
That's a reasonable argument, and you didn't lie once about anything I said.

Who are you, and what have you done with Rawma?

It's true the deaths in earlier pandemics are projections rather than a census, but that doesn't mean we can't compare the two. It just means we need to consider the relative degree of certainty.

I can buy some underreporting in Africa and India, and we know China is lying through their teeth about the number of cases, but we have pretty solid numbers for a lot of the world, and there are plausible reasons to explain why the number of cases in non-Western countries are legitimately much lower -- they're much younger and skinnier. We've known from the start that covid-19 is far more deadly the older you get, and it's becoming more and more clear than obesity is far and away the the most important co-morbidity. Africa is an absurdly young continent, and even the last surge in India was heavily focused on the urban Brahmins, who are much fatter and live longer than the rural population. I suspect the real answer will take years to sort out.
Also, don't forget that excess mortality is, like all statistics, a relative measure when all other factors prove equal.  Some of that excess mortality is probably from Covid.  Some is probably from people who elected not to have (or were restricted from) exams, procedures, and other medical preventatives due to the pandemic.  So there are a lot of possible reasons for excess mortality last year.

KingCheops

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #620 on: August 15, 2021, 08:53:28 PM »
Also, don't forget that excess mortality is, like all statistics, a relative measure when all other factors prove equal.  Some of that excess mortality is probably from Covid.  Some is probably from people who elected not to have (or were restricted from) exams, procedures, and other medical preventatives due to the pandemic.  So there are a lot of possible reasons for excess mortality last year.

Just look at the shocking "excess suicide" studies that have been done about the effects, particularly on teenagers, of the lockdowns.  This is before factoring in the long term cost of broken lives and broken minds as a result of physical, mental, sexual abuse and drug/alcohol addiction.

But if it saves even one life!!!  Don't kill grandma you fascist!

FelixGamingX1

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #621 on: August 15, 2021, 11:27:37 PM »
look at the shocking "excess suicide" studies that have been done about the effects, particularly on teenagers, of the lockdowns.

I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that. Obvious mental reasons, but how is their brain wired? This is mostly first world problems.
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Pat

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #622 on: August 15, 2021, 11:37:26 PM »
look at the shocking "excess suicide" studies that have been done about the effects, particularly on teenagers, of the lockdowns.

I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that. Obvious mental reasons, but how is their brain wired? This is mostly first world problems.
Humans are social animals. Cutting humans off from their social networks is one of the cruelest things you can do, especially for someone who is going through the period of heightened social dynamism called puberty. This isn't a matter of losing their cool, or having faulty wiring. It's literally how humans are designed. There's a reason why isolation is one of the most effective torture techniques.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #623 on: August 15, 2021, 11:57:42 PM »
look at the shocking "excess suicide" studies that have been done about the effects, particularly on teenagers, of the lockdowns.

I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that. Obvious mental reasons, but how is their brain wired? This is mostly first world problems.

https://www.cdc.gov/aging/publications/features/lonely-older-adults.html
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Kiero

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #624 on: August 16, 2021, 04:47:33 AM »
I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that. Obvious mental reasons, but how is their brain wired? This is mostly first world problems.

Are you autistic?
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #625 on: August 16, 2021, 08:26:33 AM »
I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that. Obvious mental reasons, but how is their brain wired? This is mostly first world problems.

Are you autistic?
No, he's just a fuckwit.

FelixGamingX1

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #626 on: August 16, 2021, 09:47:55 AM »
I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that. Obvious mental reasons, but how is their brain wired? This is mostly first world problems.

Are you autistic?

Wait, are you signaling that if one doesn’t contemplate suicide on a daily basis then one must be born with a deficiency? You got me confused there. The unprecedented rush to check boxes is simply astonishing in this day and age.
A lore-rich, dark fantasy setting is yours for the taking.
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Kiero

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #627 on: August 16, 2021, 12:30:47 PM »
Wait, are you signaling that if one doesn’t contemplate suicide on a daily basis then one must be born with a deficiency? You got me confused there. The unprecedented rush to check boxes is simply astonishing in this day and age.

No, if you can't understand that most normal people require human contact as a basic condition of their existence, there's something wrong with you.
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Shasarak

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #628 on: August 16, 2021, 04:43:38 PM »
look at the shocking "excess suicide" studies that have been done about the effects, particularly on teenagers, of the lockdowns.

I don’t understand why people lose their cool like that.

That is clear.  How could you understand?
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Mistwell

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Re: Here's your Mask Protocol
« Reply #629 on: September 01, 2021, 10:02:02 AM »
An actual randomized control study on masks and Covid:

With dozens of researchers at Yale, Stanford, Berkeley and IPA and several other organizations, we ran a cluster randomized trial involving almost 350,000 people and 600 villages in Bangladesh to assess the impact of community masking on COVID.

We conducted an intervention that increased mask-wearing by 29 percentage points using the techniques described here:
We ran a massive randomized controlled trial investigating many different strategies to get communities of people to wear masks -- we're now scaling up the strategies that worked in many regions throughout South Asia...A randomized controlled trial (N=341,830) conducted by IPA, doctors and mask engineers from StanfordMed with Bangladesh health researchers and officials increased mask wearing by a lot, and the behavior maintained after the intervention ended...[more details in link]

With this 29 percentage point increase in mask-wearing, we saw a 9% drop in serologically confirmed COVID. The reduction was larger in villages where we (randomly) used surgical masks than those where we used cloth masks; in surgical mask villages, we saw a 12% reduction in COVID overall and a 35% reduction among those aged 60+.



Since severe morbidity and mortality are concentrated among the elderly, this suggests that community-wide masking can be an extremely effective tool to combat COVID.

If going from 13/100 to 42/100 people wearing masks leads to reductions of the magnitudes above, near universal mask-wearing (as is possible with enforced mandates in some areas) might lead to substantially larger reductions. As noted, we find especially convincing evidence that surgical masks are effective. Cloth masks reduce COVID symptoms, but the effect we find on symptomatic infections (confirmed via blood tests) is driven by surgical masks. Cloth masks are likely better than nothing, but surgical masks or masks with higher filtration efficiency should be preferred to cloth masks where available. A longer discussion of our intervention is available here, along with the underlying working paper:

Link
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 10:04:08 AM by Mistwell »