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Author Topic: Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]  (Read 26488 times)

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #420 on: April 04, 2015, 11:20:27 PM »
Quote from: LordVreeg;823974
I no longer go to Cons, just to be clear.

I used to run games at them, but stopped back in the late 80s.  I run all my own stuff now, and have far more players and games (especially with online) than I have any time to play.

I was literally just wishing Jeff a personal good time, since I am willing to argue with him, I am also making sure he knew as a gamer, it is nothing personal.  Jeff's passion for what we do is always welcome.

I still believe it is sort of crazy and inconsistent boycotting a convention for trying to be more inclusive but worrying it changing their priorities from the supposed purity of pure gaming.  And saying, as mentioned, that you are making an economic activist response in protest to GenCon making an economic activist decision.  Personal vs larger entity is irrelevant.  

But needing to go?  As if it is Mecca?  
Nope.  Not for me.  And I'm glad we can just move through this though process together.


Thank you for that. I'm glad that we can agree to disagree on this.

nightwind1

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #421 on: April 04, 2015, 11:21:45 PM »
Quote from: Scott Anderson;822585
I was looking for a fight. I found one. Thank you all. There's no better taste than your own blood.

I'm so fucking sick of being called a racist. Or a sexist. Or a crazy JESUS freak. It's offensive and uncivil in the most basic sense. They are literal fighting words and someone on the left is eventually going to be shot over it.

Which I think is what you're waiting for. I think you are waiting for the opportunity to enact some enabling laws. I really do.

While I respect the hoops a professor has to jump through to join a guild like teaching... being a history professor is no endorsement of your opinions on history.

Because the thing that cleaves us to the groups to which we belong are not universal truths (ie the sun warms the earth), but those ideas we put faith in, which have no sure evidence. Or more than that, ideas which are likely pure fantasy.

You might think global warming is real or that abortion is just a choice or rich people really don't pay their fair share, whatever that means. You may laugh at the huge majority of people who worship their silly sky god and believe a baby is a baby regardless of whether it's in a uterus or not and see the government as the greatest threat to their future.

You may see the opposition to illegal immigration as racism. (Come to think of it, you may not even recognize the concept of "illegal" immigration.) You may laugh at people who feel it as an assault on the ability of a regular person to make a living and live in an environment of relative public health and safety.

A real orator would have a third paragraph here. I'm kind of all done fighting at the moment. But you leftists are more hateful and narrow-minded and more racist than anyone you hate.  

Yes I'm frothy at the mouth. When you kick a dog over and over again, it gets pretty vicious.


jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #422 on: April 04, 2015, 11:23:07 PM »
Quote from: Doctor Jest;824014
Trying to equate legitimate concerns over legally endorsed discrimination with the SJW Outrage Brigade is ridiculous. SJWs are not laughable because of their stated goals, but by their interpretation of innocuous media and tactics they follow allegedly in support of those goals which actually make things worse.

GenCon absolutely should support a policy of nondiscrimination for its customers, not just because its the right thing to do, but because its good for their business to do so and anyone who thinks otherwise should not attend GenCon so I don't need to run into their bigotted, backwater ass when I attend.


And thank you for completely misrepresenting my position and letting me know that I am a bigoted backwater ass. Do you feel better now?

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #423 on: April 04, 2015, 11:25:33 PM »
Quote from: nightwind1;824022


Quote from: nightwind1;824028


And the bumper sticker mentality hits just keep on coming!

Thornhammer

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #424 on: April 05, 2015, 12:12:48 AM »
Quote from: nightwind1;824028


Shine on, you tolerant and open-minded diamond.

Mjollnir

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #425 on: April 05, 2015, 12:30:15 AM »
I'm just happy as long as everyone realizes that "Tolerance" ALWAYS has to be imposed by FORCE, otherwise people might reject it.

#LGBTyranny

Bren

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #426 on: April 05, 2015, 01:07:30 AM »
Quote from: Mjollnir;824037
I'm just happy as long as everyone realizes that "Tolerance" ALWAYS has to be imposed by FORCE, otherwise people might reject it.

#LGBTyranny
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jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #427 on: April 05, 2015, 01:33:18 AM »
Quote from: Mjollnir;824037
I'm just happy as long as everyone realizes that "Tolerance" ALWAYS has to be imposed by FORCE, otherwise people might reject it.

#LGBTyranny


Don't be a twat, Mjollnir.

James Gillen

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #428 on: April 05, 2015, 03:52:09 AM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823895

Now as examples of that SJW activist behavior from the past we have Monte Cook, Zak S, The Pundit, and James Desborogh (GRIMM) being attacked and slandered. We  have had people claim that D&D is racist because orcs are a dogwhistle for black people. We have had people claim that Gary Gygax was a misogynist because of the Random Harlot Table.


All that proves is that Gary had a random table for EVERYthing.  :D

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Joey2k

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #429 on: April 05, 2015, 07:34:59 AM »
Quote from: Bren;824046
Wonderful. A public service message brought to us by Cobra Commander.


The more you know...
The word "problematic" is problematic

Doctor Jest

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #430 on: April 05, 2015, 10:16:30 AM »
Quote from: jeff37923;824029
And thank you for completely misrepresenting my position and letting me know that I am a bigoted backwater ass. Do you feel better now?


What makes you think I was talking about you, so specifically? Did you recognize yourself as such?

Bren

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #431 on: April 05, 2015, 10:39:59 AM »
Quote from: Doctor Jest;824104
What makes you think I was talking about you, so specifically? Did you recognize yourself as such?
That doesn't help in an already somewhat acrimonious discussion.
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Mjollnir

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #432 on: April 05, 2015, 11:03:20 AM »
Quote from: Technomancer;824083
The more you know...


and knowing is half the battle

Bedrockbrendan

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #433 on: April 05, 2015, 12:58:27 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823895
Let me spell it out for you, and everyone else.

I support gay marriage. I do not support the methodology of gay couples who wish to be married, filing business ending lawsuits against people who do not agree with the idea of gay marriage based upon their religious beliefs. I think that is overkill and breeds more resentment than acceptance. Just don't support those businesses that do not support gay marriage, the denial of a significant new market for their goods and services will end those businesses soon enough.

Now, to protect the religious freedom to say "no" to a customer without fear of being sued to death, Indiana passed SB 101. This caused Gen Con LLC to put forth an empty threat to leave the state of Indiana. At that point, the corporate owners of Gen Con placed political activism to remove SB 101 before their reason for incorporation - putting on a gaming convention with a very good reputation. A decision I disagree with and do not support. However, one which is supported by SJW activists wholeheartedly, and becomes especially worrisome with the declaration that Gen Con LLC wants to hear about any acts of bigotry against Gen Con attendees (which some will take as an invitation to try and deliberately provoke a reaction).

Now as examples of that SJW activist behavior from the past we have Monte Cook, Zak S, The Pundit, and James Desborogh (GRIMM) being attacked and slandered. We  have had people claim that D&D is racist because orcs are a dogwhistle for black people. We have had people claim that Gary Gygax was a misogynist because of the Random Harlot Table. We have had people claim that D&D 5E was anti-feminist because there were not enough female monsters depicted in the Monster Manual.

Lately, in Indiana, we have seen Memories Pizza be decried as homophobic because the owner would not cater a hypothetical gay wedding. A high school coach threatened the business with arson. A group of protestors have taken up at the business and caused them to close down for fear of endangering the employees and staff. The GoFundMe site set up by their lawyer to help cope with the business losses has been declared fraudulent without any evidence by a "concerned reporter" because she disagreed with their stance.

There is plenty of evidence available that these SJW activists are willing to go out of their way to be shitty to those they disagree with.

Now with all that in mind, I do not wish to spend hundreds of dollars at Gen Con to attend the convention. The impression I have is that it will be a hostile social environment because of all this, and I do not want to put up with that when I want to game and especially not when I pay to game.


But the difference here Jeff is those of us arguing against the law and taking a different position from you, aren't saying you need to leave the hobby or you have to change your way of thinking. We're not trying to police thoughts and language here, we just have serious concerns about what effects this law will have on the rights of gay people. I get the concern about the social justice warrior thing. I certainly think that stuff has made some quarters of the hobby hostile to open discussion and to just playing and enjoying the games people like. This seems like more of a real world issue. One where we are not all going to agree on for a variety of reasons. But I do think this law is bad and that people have a right to be able to buy goods and services.

Turanil

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #434 on: April 05, 2015, 01:44:01 PM »
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;824141
I do think this law is bad and that people have a right to be able to buy goods and services.
I already asked in this thread if businesses (in Indiana) currently have an obligation of service to everyone who asks, and if this law would allow shop owners to discriminate against certain categories of people (and not especially gays).

I was answered that: 1) Business owners have no obligation to accept anyone, and can refuse if they deem so. 2) The law is only about if they were sued by an angry rejected customer, that they could invoke (in court) the right to discriminate because of religious beliefs.

So this law is obviously not about precluding gays to buy goods and services. Because the shop owner can already say no without justification. (By the way: How do you know that the person in front of you who wants to buy, is gay or straight? Unless the person is claiming it, but for what reason?)

Note that discriminating people is not necessarily about their sexual orientation! (Especially as in most cases it's unknown to people around.) There are a few restaurants for the wealthy, that don't accept you if you don't have the right (i.e. elegant) clothing. Are you screaming against that? Are gay people screaming against that? And we might also imagine a restaurant's Christian owner refusing to serve a person clothed like a prostitute. Now, many people could understand that it would be bad for the "Christian restaurant" (it could lose customers) if people clothed like prostitutes would come in; but if per chance the person happens to be gay, it suddenly becomes a national scandal?

So what I see here, are drama-queens over-reacting.

(Of course, I must mention this: I support acceptance and respect of others, even if said other persons are of different sexual orientations, different political opinions, different religious beliefs, etc.).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 01:51:12 PM by Turanil »
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