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Author Topic: Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]  (Read 26495 times)

LordVreeg

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #405 on: April 04, 2015, 02:11:48 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823947
I'm not a business that was incorporated to produce a gaming convention like Gen Con.  I'm a consumer who chooses where he spends his money.

If we want to be completely general about it, Gen Con and I are exactly the same in that we are legal entities.


I hope you go and have a good time, personally.
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jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #406 on: April 04, 2015, 02:16:10 PM »
Quote from: LordVreeg;823936
By all means, engage in an economic activist response to GenCon's economic activist response to Indiana.


The assumption here from the smarmy patronizing peanut gallery is that as a gamer, we should all make the journey to mecca and worship at the alter of Gen Con.

Quote from: LordVreeg;823948
I hope you go and have a good time, personally.


Are you offering to pay my way?

Bren

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #407 on: April 04, 2015, 02:27:01 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823946
Bren, if you could literally care less, then why have you spent so much time and energy telling me how wrong I am for having this opinion?
Because your stated opinion is simultaneously so ironic and pants on head crazy in the exact same way as the political rhetoric of hug-box, echo chamber, I-want/need-a-safe-space where opposing viewpoints aren't allowed to trouble me segment of RPGnet so often aligned with the SJWs you don't want to see or hear at Gen Con. It's like you became the scar-faced Sulu or mustache wearing Spock mirror image of the SJWs.

Quote from: jeff37923;823949
The assumption here from the smarmy patronizing peanut gallery is that as a gamer, we should all make the journey to mecca and worship at the alter of Gen Con.
Other than LordVreeg I don't recall anyone saying anything that comes even close to that. I know I specifically said the opposite. (And I strongly suspect LordVreeg's statement was a combination of a bit of snark combined with an honest belief that you might have fun if you did attend.)

Telling you that your reason for boycotting Gen Con is ironic and silly is not at all the same thing as telling you that you must attend Gen Con. You are allowed to not go for silly reasons or no reason at all. But when you publicly post your reasons, some of us are going to point out your reason is silly and some of us will mock your reason because of that.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 02:33:15 PM by Bren »
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jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #408 on: April 04, 2015, 02:43:50 PM »
Quote from: Bren;823951
Because your stated opinion is simultaneously so ironic and pants on head crazy in the exact same way as the political rhetoric of hug-box, echo chamber, I-want/need-a-safe-space where opposing viewpoints aren't allowed to trouble me segment of RPGnet so often aligned with the SJWs you don't want to see or hear at Gen Con. It's like you became the scar-faced Sulu or mustache wearing Spock mirror image of the SJWs.



Bren, if I was in such a need for opinions that resembled my own in a hugbox environment, then why am I still here at TheRPGsite? If I demanded only an echo chamber, then I should have ragequit a long time ago.

This entire conversation we have been having in this thread is a refutation of your assertion.

My opinions differ. The question you should be asking is why does that bother Bren so much?

Bren

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #409 on: April 04, 2015, 03:08:15 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823954
Bren, if I was in such a need for opinions that resembled my own in a hugbox environment, then why am I still here at TheRPGsite?
Your boycotting Gen Con because their opposition to the Indiana law means you might run into an SJW there seems inconsistent with your claim not to be bothered by dissenting opinions. The inconsistency is why people are saying your stand is ironic. As to why you both stay here and listen to disagreement while the possibility of a dissenting voice bothers you so much at Gen Con? Hell if I know. I long ago gave up trying to explain away the inconsistent beliefs other people hold
Currently running: Boot Hill 2E      Currently playing:_D&D 5E and Call of Cthulhu
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I now have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan now owes me 9 beers and I owe him 2 beers.
And this just in, jeff37923 has jumped on the beer wagon. He now owes me 1 beer.

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #410 on: April 04, 2015, 03:16:33 PM »
Quote from: Bren;823961
Your boycotting Gen Con because their opposition to the Indiana law means you might run into an SJW there seems inconsistent with your claim not to be bothered by dissenting opinions. The inconsistency is why people are saying your stand is ironic. As to why you both stay here and listen to disagreement while the possibility of a dissenting voice bothers you so much at Gen Con? Hell if I know. I long ago gave up trying to explain away the inconsistent beliefs other people hold


Quote from: jeff37923;823946
Bren, if you could literally care less, then why have you spent so much time and energy telling me how wrong I am for having this opinion?


It is not just the possibility of a dissenting voice. I have already given examples of the extremes of shitty behavior SJW activists will engage in upthread. Just looking at how you are worrying my opinion like a dog with a bone is an indication that the "live and let live" attitude is dead. Why should I pay for the dubious privilege of this in person at a gaming convention?

Spinachcat

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #411 on: April 04, 2015, 03:32:50 PM »
I gotta support Jeff's stance.

Also, let's all review Bill Maher's Liberal vs. Liberal rule for some wisdom on this issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFeDFva6tcg

Jeff has stated unequivocally he supports gay marriage, and he has also stated he does not support corporate political activism.

I also question corporate activism because while its all warm and fuzzy when a corporation supports "our team", corporate activism is less than joyous when a mega-billion dollar corporation throws its weight against "our team."

And for those of you who have been members (or lurkers) of this site for a few years, you know Jeff and I've had numerous disagreements, so I'm not jumping to his defense out of huggies. We're both Traveller fans and we've rarely agreed on Traveller shit.  

Can Jeff be a huge pain in the ass? Hell motherfucking yeah, but he's also one of the dudes behind Save vs. Hunger which took real world effort which resulted in real world help for actual people in deep trouble.
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=31524&page=2


Quote from: jeff37923;823771
Why can I not ask for a reasonable assurance that I will not bothered by a SJW activist while I spend my hundreds of dollars at a gaming convention?


Do you avoid large group activities, like concerts?

My girlfriend avoids large group stuff, because dealing with a couple idiots out of 10,000 people ruins her experience.

Personally, I shrug them off. I did Knotfest last summer - Slipknot's 2 day metal festival with 40+ bands - and there were 30,000+ people there. I encountered lots of cool people and a couple drunk dickheads. For me, the overall experience was about the cool people, but I know the dickheads would have ruined the weekend for my girlfriend.

Its not that "my way" is better than "her way", people have different dickhead tolerances and I agree that if your dickhead tolerance is low, then avoiding large groups of strangers may be a good idea.


Quote from: jeff37923;823879
Must I go to Gen Con or else I am not supporting Tabletop Role-Playing Games? Are you bucking to be the next Will or maybe Sacrosanct Junior?


GenCon is an experience BUT I have been told by many people that Origins was actually better for actual gaming.

BTW, if you ever enjoyed Palladium's RPG, I unbelievably recommend the Palladium Open House. http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/POH-SAT-Palladium-Open-House-Saturday.html

Also, before Bren becomes the next Will, I must see a picture of his head and determine whether I wish to rub dice on his skull.

If Bren's head is worthy, I shall bless his becoming the New Will.


Quote from: TristramEvans;823888
MC Hammer is still around?


Yes, but he's incorporeal.

That's why you can't touch this.


Quote from: TristramEvans;823891
Of course, you're perfectly entitled to not go, I could care less. I've never gone and 99% of the people I've gamed with in my life have never attended a gaming con of any kind.


Gaming cons can be tremendously huge fun. I highly recommend checking out your local conventions and giving one of them a try. Bring your crew!

Bren

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #412 on: April 04, 2015, 03:44:09 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823962
Why should I pay for the dubious privilege of this in person at a gaming convention?
Almost no one has said you should pay to go to Gen Con. I certainly never said you should pay to go. I never said anyone should go. I even said I'm not going, though I didn't belabor anyone with my reasons for not going to this or any prior Gen Con.

What I did do was point out that your  stated reason for not attending is both silly and ironic. Pointing that out is not at all the same as saying that unless you have a better reason, you should pony up some cash to go to Gen Con.
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I now have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan now owes me 9 beers and I owe him 2 beers.
And this just in, jeff37923 has jumped on the beer wagon. He now owes me 1 beer.

JamesV

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #413 on: April 04, 2015, 04:52:45 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;823963
BTW, if you ever enjoyed Palladium's RPG, I unbelievably recommend the Palladium Open House. http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/POH-SAT-Palladium-Open-House-Saturday.html


Shoot, JR Blackburn, and Ramon Perez are gonna be there this year?  
If they really have 100+ games available for joining, that's your money's worth and then some.
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LordVreeg

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #414 on: April 04, 2015, 05:11:07 PM »
I no longer go to Cons, just to be clear.

I used to run games at them, but stopped back in the late 80s.  I run all my own stuff now, and have far more players and games (especially with online) than I have any time to play.

I was literally just wishing Jeff a personal good time, since I am willing to argue with him, I am also making sure he knew as a gamer, it is nothing personal.  Jeff's passion for what we do is always welcome.

I still believe it is sort of crazy and inconsistent boycotting a convention for trying to be more inclusive but worrying it changing their priorities from the supposed purity of pure gaming.  And saying, as mentioned, that you are making an economic activist response in protest to GenCon making an economic activist decision.  Personal vs larger entity is irrelevant.  

But needing to go?  As if it is Mecca?  
Nope.  Not for me.  And I'm glad we can just move through this though process together.
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TristramEvans

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #415 on: April 04, 2015, 09:20:04 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;823963

I also question corporate activism because while its all warm and fuzzy when a corporation supports "our team", corporate activism is less than joyous when a mega-billion dollar corporation throws its weight against "our team."

Generally speaking I'd agree. When the context of "our team" is homophobia vs tolerance however, I think the context changes the equation. The fallacy I see with Jeff's reasoning is equating social justice with SJWs. When I call someone an SJW, ther term is meant ironically. It doesn't mean I don't care about social justice, it means I think online slacktivism and pouring over minutia of meaningless pop entertainment to extrapolate some inference in the manner of Fredrich Wrtham has nothing to do with actually working towards social justice. So when Gencon threatens to boycott a state for passing laws with homophobic motivations, I don't see that as them catering to SJWs, I see that as them genuinely being concerned with social justice. (All of this is changed by the fact that Gencon didnt stand by their threat, however, in which case I consider the whole thing an empty gesture).

It may help for clarity for me to say that I see zero difference between homophobia and racism. They are, to my mind, equal sides of the same coin.


Quote
Yes, but he's incorporeal.

That's why you can't touch this.

I lol'd.



Quote
Gaming cons can be tremendously huge fun. I highly recommend checking out your local conventions and giving one of them a try. Bring your crew!

I'm just not that type of person. I like gaming with close friends, I dislike crowds, and I hate to say it, but my misanthropy applies only slightly less to gamers as to any social group.
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Doctor Jest

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #416 on: April 04, 2015, 10:19:17 PM »
Trying to equate legitimate concerns over legally endorsed discrimination with the SJW Outrage Brigade is ridiculous. SJWs are not laughable because of their stated goals, but by their interpretation of innocuous media and tactics they follow allegedly in support of those goals which actually make things worse.

GenCon absolutely should support a policy of nondiscrimination for its customers, not just because its the right thing to do, but because its good for their business to do so and anyone who thinks otherwise should not attend GenCon so I don't need to run into their bigotted, backwater ass when I attend.

nightwind1

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #417 on: April 04, 2015, 11:00:54 PM »
Quote from: Brad;821970
And hence, you won't spend money, thus they go out of business...it's really not that hard. The law should not be regulating morality.

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #418 on: April 04, 2015, 11:16:35 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;823963
I gotta support Jeff's stance.

Also, let's all review Bill Maher's Liberal vs. Liberal rule for some wisdom on this issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFeDFva6tcg

Jeff has stated unequivocally he supports gay marriage, and he has also stated he does not support corporate political activism.

I also question corporate activism because while its all warm and fuzzy when a corporation supports "our team", corporate activism is less than joyous when a mega-billion dollar corporation throws its weight against "our team."

And for those of you who have been members (or lurkers) of this site for a few years, you know Jeff and I've had numerous disagreements, so I'm not jumping to his defense out of huggies. We're both Traveller fans and we've rarely agreed on Traveller shit.  

Can Jeff be a huge pain in the ass? Hell motherfucking yeah, but he's also one of the dudes behind Save vs. Hunger which took real world effort which resulted in real world help for actual people in deep trouble.
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=31524&page=2


Thank you. I feel humbled by this.

Quote from: Spinachcat;823963

Do you avoid large group activities, like concerts?

My girlfriend avoids large group stuff, because dealing with a couple idiots out of 10,000 people ruins her experience.

Personally, I shrug them off. I did Knotfest last summer - Slipknot's 2 day metal festival with 40+ bands - and there were 30,000+ people there. I encountered lots of cool people and a couple drunk dickheads. For me, the overall experience was about the cool people, but I know the dickheads would have ruined the weekend for my girlfriend.

Its not that "my way" is better than "her way", people have different dickhead tolerances and I agree that if your dickhead tolerance is low, then avoiding large groups of strangers may be a good idea.


That is a big part of it, my dickhead tolerance is minimal at this point in my life.

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #419 on: April 04, 2015, 11:18:21 PM »
Quote from: Bren;823966
Almost no one has said you should pay to go to Gen Con. I certainly never said you should pay to go. I never said anyone should go. I even said I'm not going, though I didn't belabor anyone with my reasons for not going to this or any prior Gen Con.

What I did do was point out that your  stated reason for not attending is both silly and ironic. Pointing that out is not at all the same as saying that unless you have a better reason, you should pony up some cash to go to Gen Con.


Bren, by this time, everyone who has more than two brain cells to rub together, understands that you disapprove.