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Author Topic: Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]  (Read 26494 times)

RPGPundit

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #345 on: April 02, 2015, 08:09:08 PM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;823494
Yeah, also corporations are learning the presidential election itself doesn't matter as much if they own all the local guys and both party's candidates, so the Business Wing of the party is going to get a lot less tolerant of the Religious Wing as the "Southern Strategy" becomes increasingly obsolete.


Religious fanaticism has never been particularly good for business, unless you own a Creationist Museum or something.
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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #346 on: April 02, 2015, 08:12:16 PM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;823543
BINGO.  

Two people want to enter a business contract with each other and the gov't as "The Wilson's" I don't care if they are gay, straight, trans, sleep in the same bed or are brother and sister - or are even named Wilson.  It's a fucking dba.

Your religion allows only marriages between two heterosexual women from Decatur, Illinois? Who gives a fuck, ain't the govt's problem or my business.

Get the gov't out of the religious ritual business and get the religions out of the economic contract business.

Problem solved.


I'd go one further and get rid of the government's involvement altogether.  Marriage is whatever ceremony you and whoever you consensually get to agree to it want it to be; government stops treating married people different from single people.
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Bren

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #347 on: April 02, 2015, 08:25:46 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823513
Well, how about this question. Because of their actions, is Gen Con still  "The best four days in gaming" or is it a tool for political activism? Gen Con used to concentrate on delivering gaming goodness in a convention package, now it is concentrating on pushing forth a political agenda.
By your logic, doing nothing would make Gen Con a tool of the religious fundamentalist anti-gay lobby who authored the legislation. That seems way too binary a view. I suspect, Gen Con made a business decision that the legislation would be a problem for enough attendees that they needed to argue against it and to be seen to be arguing against it. Not coincidentally that is the exact same stand that a number of large corporations with headquarters or significant operations in Indiana.

The Republican legislature and Governor Pence decided to draw a line in the sand by passing the law. A law that serves no purpose in most of Indiana (which has no state wide anti-discrimination law for sexual orientation) other than to void local antidiscrimination laws that were put in place in cities like Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.

In what is an ever more frequent disconnect between fiscally conservative, small government Republicans and their socially reactionary comrades, this legislation takes away local control and local rights by enacting law at the higher state level. Which is kind of typical for the religious/social reactionaries who are unduly interested in what other people do in their bedrooms and look to government to help them express their disapproval. This legislation was designed to score political points with the Republican fundamentalist religious base and the governor's action in approving it is what put Gen Con and other companies in the place of either accepting the legislation or arguing against it.
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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #348 on: April 02, 2015, 08:27:48 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;823591
I'd go one further and get rid of the government's involvement altogether.  Marriage is whatever ceremony you and whoever you consensually get to agree to it want it to be; government stops treating married people different from single people.
I'd take the tax break that paying taxes separately at the single rate would give me.
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Doctor Jest

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #349 on: April 02, 2015, 09:49:43 PM »
Quote from: Bren;823596
I'd take the tax break that paying taxes separately at the single rate would give me.


Unless you or your spouse make significantly more than the other, in which you'd get a tax break for being married.

My wife and I got married for tax reasons, since I make a lot more than she does. It save's us thousands of dollars per year in tax benefits.

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #350 on: April 02, 2015, 09:52:17 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;823591
I'd go one further and get rid of the government's involvement altogether.  Marriage is whatever ceremony you and whoever you consensually get to agree to it want it to be; government stops treating married people different from single people.


The ceremony is a wedding, not a marriage. Marriage is a legal status. But I agree marriage should be abolished. Its outdated.

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #351 on: April 02, 2015, 10:03:01 PM »
Quote from: Doctor Jest;823617
Unless you or your spouse make significantly more than the other, in which you'd get a tax break for being married.

My wife and I got married for tax reasons, since I make a lot more than she does. It save's us thousands of dollars per year in tax benefits.
I'm aware. In our bracket and with our incomes, separate would have been cheaper for the past 25 years or so. So for us its a marriage tax.
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flyerfan1991

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #352 on: April 02, 2015, 10:08:51 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;823589
Religious fanaticism has never been particularly good for business, unless you own a Creationist Museum or something.


Ugh.

I try really damn hard to forget that... thing... is right across the river in Kentucky.

At least the Kentucky statehouse wised up and refused to give them any state funds for their Noah's Ark amusement park when Answers in Genesis stated they were only going to hire "Christians" to construct and run the park.

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #353 on: April 02, 2015, 10:20:09 PM »
Quote from: Bren;823444
That sounds like a goofy crack pot conspiracy theory. A man and a woman can't make a church marry them. Why would anyone think that two men or two women could make a church marry them when a man and a woman can't? That seems cracked.

I dunno. This whole discussion seems to breed crackpot theories on both sides of the aisle. Look way back on . . . page 1, actually. Some dude was claiming that this Indiana law could open the floodgates to refusing service, employment, and possibly other things based on sexual orientation, color of skin, having a different religion from the person doing the hiring/serving, etc.

The infographic above is actually a very good illustration of what an RFRA law actually does. And I have a friend who blogs on political matters a lot who decided to throw his hat in the ring:
Quote from: Dr. Glenn Peoples
So much for the facts of the matter, which are beyond dispute. On their own, the facts tell us that the outrage against Indiana is unreasonable. This is a piece of law that expresses a basic feature of any adequately free society, a law that is already federal law and state law in many places, a law that does not allow for – and has not lead to – carte blanche discrimination.

The full article can be found here, and more information on the writer of the article can be found here.
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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #354 on: April 02, 2015, 10:32:06 PM »
I'm disappointed that once again businesses are the ones that are driving the government to action, even if it is positive this time, instead of the complaints of actual living people who are affected by the laws.

This was the obvious outcome of allowing money to be speech and treating corporations as people in the context of free speech.

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #355 on: April 02, 2015, 10:37:48 PM »
Quote from: GeekEclectic;823623
I dunno.
I've yet to see an example of what the law is supposed to protect people from. Thus I'm left with this all being based on stirring up campaign contributions and support by appeasing a political base who have some crackpot paranoid delusion that without this law Baptist ministers and Catholic priests across the state of Indiana will somehow be forced to perform weddings in their own church for gay couples.

Some examples of what it is this law will allow people to do that they would otherwise not be permitted to do in Indiana and what they want not to have to do that they would otherwise be compelled to do in Indiana. To say, as some seem to be saying, that this law is needed to protect people from the anti-discrimination law in Colorado (which doesn't apply in Indiana, and it's not like Colorado is even close to being a neighboring state) seems pants on head crazy.
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flyerfan1991

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #356 on: April 02, 2015, 10:58:06 PM »
Quote from: Bren;823627
I've yet to see an example of what the law is supposed to protect people from. Thus I'm left with this all being based on stirring up campaign contributions and support by appeasing a political base who have some crackpot paranoid delusion that without this law Baptist ministers and Catholic priests across the state of Indiana will somehow be forced to perform weddings in their own church for gay couples.

Some examples of what it is this law will allow people to do that they would otherwise not be permitted to do in Indiana and what they want not to have to do that they would otherwise be compelled to do in Indiana. To say, as some seem to be saying, that this law is needed to protect people from the anti-discrimination law in Colorado (which doesn't apply in Indiana, and it's not like Colorado is even close to being a neighboring state) seems pants on head crazy.


I'd also argue that assuming that a gay couple would try to force a minister --who quite obviously believes they are evil sinners-- to perform a marriage ceremony for them ignores the fact that the gay couple wouldn't even be in that church in the first place.

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #357 on: April 03, 2015, 03:33:02 AM »
Quote from: jeff37923;823513
I have always wanted to one day attend Gen Con, but not now and definitely not this year. I have a feeling it could become a shitstorm of SJW lunacy instead of four days of fun gaming.


GenCon had 56,000 attendees in 2014. Even if there were 1% SJWs, that's 560 douchenozzles out of 56,000 gamers. I seriously doubt there would be even half of 1%.

Attend whenever you have the time to go. GenCon's grueling, but fun. I highly suggest reading various blogs on "how to do GenCon" because aspects of GenCon's bureaucracy can be frustrating.


Quote from: jeff37923;823319
What are Gen Con's motivations in all this?


There are lots of gay gamers and they have disposable income. GenCon may have gay staff, and they definitely have lots of gay volunteers.

And, its great free publicity for them. Now, whenever there's a list of companies boycotting Indiana, GenCon gets listed alongside a bunch of major names. That's only good press.


Quote from: Brad;823263
Big corporations give fuck-all about anything unless it makes them money.


Good optics is good marketing.

Good optics helps hiring.

Discrimination, of any kind, is bad PR among young educated employees, so coming out against Indiana is meaningful in the competition for talent.


Quote from: Doctor Jest;823208
When NASCAR and the NFL start thinking you need to dial it down a notch, that tells you something right there.


Whammo!


Quote from: Doctor Jest;823237
Indiana business supports the law, says they will discriminate against gays, internet explodes
https://www.google.com/#safe=active&q=memories+pizza


I am always so confused when people say sexuality is a choice.

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #358 on: April 03, 2015, 07:46:53 AM »
Quote from: LordVreeg;823523
Jeffrey,


And your response starts out with a smarmy patronizing tone....

Quote from: LordVreeg;823523
I'm actually sure that being the "best four days of gaming" and still being activist for equality are not mutually exclusive, in the long term.


So which is it? Four days or long term?

And if political activism and gaming are not mutually exclusive, then why wasn't the setting for Blue Rose a more popular product?

Quote from: LordVreeg;823523
I would also feel pretty safe in saying they did not want this distraction.  
But not withdrawing from the fray and taking the easy dollars was the harder, more commendable way out.

You are CERTAINLY CORRECT that people and groups will politicize it and put gaming second.  No doubt.  

But I find this to be the harder but more admirable path, personally.


I don't think anybody wanted this distraction.

However, it has already been politicized and Gen Con is placing political activism before gaming.

While I agree that supporting gay marriage is a good thing, this is coming at the cost of setting up the #1 gaming convention.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 08:12:24 AM by jeff37923 »

jeff37923

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Gen Con to Possibly Leave Indiana [politics]
« Reply #359 on: April 03, 2015, 07:50:51 AM »
Quote from: AteTheHeckUp;823531
And the idea that GenCon is somehow  politicizing sexual orientation is hilariously disingenuous.


Actually, your comment is hilariously disingenuous.  

I never said that Gen Con is politicizing sexual orientation. I have said that Gen Con is using the convention to engage in political activism (which in this case, is opposition to Indiana's SB 101).