This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations  (Read 4229 times)

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #150 on: September 23, 2019, 02:02:32 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1105610
So, I don't know any details about the case from the OP.

But is the suggestion here that Quinn should be fired / lose employment because of her tweets? It seemed to me that in other threads, most people thought that blacklisting campaigns were wrong - and that there should be a legal trial to determine if people should be punished, rather than trial by Internet.

I can see a case of "Well, trial by Internet is what we have - so it should apply to both accusers and accused." That seems like a valid case. But ideally, I would say that these sort of blacklisting campaigns wouldn't exist. It seems possible to me that if people weren't so into such gossip and blacklisting, that Alec Holowka wouldn't have killed himself. I know there have been legal prosecutions or suing of people for contributing to someone's suicide, though the laws vary from state to state.

From rules for radicals: "Make them live under their own rules".

Also, a key difference here is I said I dropped their books, not that everybody should and those who don't are EVIL.

But if we had the power (I mean the press on the side of truth and justice) she should be fired and blacklisted and probably jailed for manslaughter.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #151 on: September 23, 2019, 02:03:17 pm »
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1105599
On the other hand, once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane. :)

Exactly.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8546
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #152 on: September 23, 2019, 02:21:19 pm »
Quote from: rgalex;1105612
Eh, not on my end.  At least not because of the tweets.  I think they shouldn't hire her because she isn't a very good comic writer in addition to being a lightning rod for controversy.  If she was a good writer, well, that would be a different story.  There are a few SJW types that I'll still buy product from.  That's because it's good product.  I'm not 100% always able to separate artist from art, but you need to do some really terrible shit for me to not buy your art if it's good stuff.

Cool. I'm generally in agreement here. If someone is a convicted murderer, say, then I'll have issues with buying their stuff. But for the most part I don't care about a creator's personal life or politics.

I haven't read any of Quinn's stuff, so I have no idea if she's a good writer or not.

moonsweeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #153 on: September 23, 2019, 02:56:15 pm »
Quote from: Trond;1105602
I agree that the deal was probably in place. But I find it so weird that people can't figure out what a walking minefield of red flags this woman (or whatever, she goes by "they" now) really is, even before this latest story. When I heard that a guy had killed himself, I was angry but not the least bit surprised.


-emphasis is mine

"They" might actually be the correct pronoun if she is counting the voices in her head...
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

Trond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1664
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #154 on: September 23, 2019, 06:22:22 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1105610
So, I don't know any details about the case from the OP.

But is the suggestion here that Quinn should be fired / lose employment because of her tweets? It seemed to me that in other threads, most people thought that blacklisting campaigns were wrong - and that there should be a legal trial to determine if people should be punished, rather than trial by Internet.

I can see a case of "Well, trial by Internet is what we have - so it should apply to both accusers and accused." That seems like a valid case. But ideally, I would say that these sort of blacklisting campaigns wouldn't exist. It seems possible to me that if people weren't so into such gossip and blacklisting, that Alec Holowka wouldn't have killed himself. I know there have been legal prosecutions or suing of people for contributing to someone's suicide, though the laws vary from state to state.


Firing her would be better than nothing, and a vast improvement on what's been happening so far. Holowka lost his job because of her tweets, then killed himself. To completely honest, I think that if anyone REALLY looked into Quinn's affairs the last decade or so, they would find that she probably belongs in jail. Just a hunch, as I can't prove this. But there is a long trail of broken financial promises, lies to associates, very blatant hypocrisy (screaming harassment while simultaneously harassing and doxxing) ruined lives, etc etc. On top of that, here's another "hobby observation" (so take with a grain of salt); I think she's a psychopath. I know one (my father in-law) and there are some striking similarities in behavior.

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8546
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #155 on: September 23, 2019, 07:41:53 pm »
Quote from: Trond;1105645
Firing her would be better than nothing, and a vast improvement on what's been happening so far. Holowka lost his job because of her tweets, then killed himself. To completely honest, I think that if anyone REALLY looked into Quinn's affairs the last decade or so, they would find that she probably belongs in jail. Just a hunch, as I can't prove this.
To put her in jail, there should be proof, though. That's how justice should work. I'm not saying you're claiming otherwise, but I think sharing unproven hunches invites more trial by Internet.

I understand the complaint that plenty of other people are going through trial by Internet. And I don't have any great ideas how to stop it. But it sucks, and I'm doubtful that calling for more trials by Internet will make things better.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105613
But if we had the power (I mean the press on the side of truth and justice) she should be fired and blacklisted and probably jailed for manslaughter.
Blacklisting is bullshit. I don't think there's a way around individual employers firing people. Employers have their own choices. But if someone is a suspect of something, then they should get a trial. If they're found guilty, then they're jailed. If they're found not guilty, though, they shouldn't be blacklisted as "alternative justice".

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #156 on: September 23, 2019, 08:43:22 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1105657
To put her in jail, there should be proof, though. That's how justice should work. I'm not saying you're claiming otherwise, but I think sharing unproven hunches invites more trial by Internet.

I understand the complaint that plenty of other people are going through trial by Internet. And I don't have any great ideas how to stop it. But it sucks, and I'm doubtful that calling for more trials by Internet will make things better.


Blacklisting is bullshit. I don't think there's a way around individual employers firing people. Employers have their own choices. But if someone is a suspect of something, then they should get a trial. If they're found guilty, then they're jailed. If they're found not guilty, though, they shouldn't be blacklisted as "alternative justice".

Again, from Rules for radicals: "Make them live under their own rules"
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14034
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #157 on: September 23, 2019, 08:56:04 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105541
Which is why I dropped all DC books, now -for the first time in my life- I'm not buying anything from the big 2 by my own free will and not lack of money.


Have fun exploring all the 2nd tier publishers!

Based on my experience with the "not-DC and not-Marvel", the art is just as good (if not better) and the stories range from just as shitty to equal to anything the big 2 put out.


Quote from: jhkim;1105610
But is the suggestion here that Quinn should be fired / lose employment because of her tweets? It seemed to me that in other threads, most people thought that blacklisting campaigns were wrong - and that there should be a legal trial to determine if people should be punished, rather than trial by Internet.


"Justice for me, but not for thee?" comes to mind.

You're right. There should be NEVER be "trials by internet" and nobody should lose their job based on unfounded accusations, but we're in the PoundMeToo era.

In this era, its high time to fight fire with napalm cluster bombs and multi-meltas and burn everything down. Only when the bonfires are raging out of control will people wake the fuck up and go "hmm, that innocent until proven guilty thing was a really good idea! We should do that!"


Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105613
From rules for radicals: "Make them live under their own rules".


Exactly. There should be a campaign against DC demanding her firing.

Not because she had done anything with proof. We may not like Quinn, but we have no hard evidence of wrong doing regarding this wanker's suicide (although, she's clearly been caught in lies multiple times regarding her timelines).

The campaign to fire Quinn is needed simply because the Left won't learn shit until their own rules cause them nightmares. We need to demand purity purges upon them over and over again until their safe spaces are nothing but tears and cinder.


Quote from: moonsweeper;1105621
"They" might actually be the correct pronoun if she is counting the voices in her head...


LOL. That's exactly my thought, or that scene from Ghostbusters:

Dana Barrett: [as The Gatekeeper] I want you inside me.

Dr. Peter Venkman: It sounds like you've got at least two or three people in there already.

Snowman0147

  • Now Even More Frosty
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2964
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #158 on: September 23, 2019, 08:59:33 pm »
The disease is spreading.



Before we damn the man can we wait for the evidence to show itself?

Tait Ransom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • T
  • Posts: 78
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #159 on: September 23, 2019, 09:13:26 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105613
From rules for radicals: "Make them live under their own rules".


Yep.  I hate blacklists and cancel culture, but I don't believe they will end until and unless the left gets a taste of them, good and hard.

Snowman0147

  • Now Even More Frosty
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2964
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #160 on: September 23, 2019, 09:19:59 pm »
Quote from: Tait Ransom;1105678
Yep.  I hate blacklists and cancel culture, but I don't believe they will end until and unless the left gets a taste of them, good and hard.

Again Raging Golden Eagle is right.

Warboss Squee

  • Lord of the Dance
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #161 on: September 23, 2019, 11:30:23 pm »
Quote from: Tait Ransom;1105678
Yep.  I hate blacklists and cancel culture, but I don't believe they will end until and unless the left gets a taste of them, good and hard.


At which point they'll cry and weep and push the narrative that cancel culture is a right-wing creation designed to bully women, brown people and Snuffleupagus-kin out of whatever facet of society they're busy burning to the ground, and every newspaper and talking head will run the story.

Law and Order : SUV will air an episode where vile, rightwing CCers gang rape an autistic poly-gendered unicorn- kin's imaginary friend, to teach them their place.

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #162 on: September 24, 2019, 09:00:37 am »
It's equally true that, regardless of political spectrum, people don't like to hear people who don't agree with them.  

While some on the left may argue for 'de-platforming', the people that the right generally don't want to hear have NEVER HAD A PLATFORM historically.  The right tends to be for the 'status-quo', so keeping things as they are generally means making it hard for new voices to be heard.
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Trond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1664
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #163 on: September 24, 2019, 09:51:10 am »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1105731
It's equally true that, regardless of political spectrum, people don't like to hear people who don't agree with them.  

While some on the left may argue for 'de-platforming', the people that the right generally don't want to hear have NEVER HAD A PLATFORM historically.  The right tends to be for the 'status-quo', so keeping things as they are generally means making it hard for new voices to be heard.

No offense, but I think the one they don't want to hear is you.

Warboss Squee

  • Lord of the Dance
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
    • View Profile
Game developer commits suicide after Zoe Quinn accusations
« Reply #164 on: September 24, 2019, 09:57:56 am »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1105731
It's equally true that, regardless of political spectrum, people don't like to hear people who don't agree with them.  

While some on the left may argue for 'de-platforming', the people that the right generally don't want to hear have NEVER HAD A PLATFORM historically.  The right tends to be for the 'status-quo', so keeping things as they are generally means making it hard for new voices to be heard.

Right. Which is why the only platform the left wants is the one where they hold the mic.