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Author Topic: From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer  (Read 2525 times)

Spike

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2006, 10:09:34 PM »
To be honest, any game that dictates morality, either objectively or subjectively has a problem.  The WoD, either old OR new was always hampered by their insistance that 'killing people and taking their stuff makes you an uncontrollable madman'.

Which is most emphatically not how the world works. Madmen are killign people because they are crazy, not crazy because they kill people. Other people kill people ALL THE TIME and never go crazy for it.  

It wouldn't have been nearly as much of a problem (indeed, it works excellently when dealing with the man on the street feeling guilty for driving over his daughter's puppy by accident) if it weren't so fucking integral to the game. There are no exceptions for anyone. Everyone has a moral code they must follow, period.
Really now?
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Vellorian

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2006, 09:45:49 AM »
Quote from: Spike
Other people kill people ALL THE TIME and never go crazy for it.  


I know and have known quite a few people who have killed others.  I can assure you, killing someone changes you.  Maybe not by making you "crazy," true.  I can assure you, however, that someone who can simply go out and kill someone, and feel nothing, not be changed and have no major emotional issues to deal with, is, without a doubt, "crazy."
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Spike

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2006, 02:16:12 PM »
No doubt.   My point was that those who can go out killing without being changed or having to deal with 'issues' were like that before they killed.  There is an interesting collarary regarding the prevelance of sociopaths in the population, The Ruthless Among Us was the title of the study, if I recall.

About three years ago one of my co-workers was forced to shoot a person. More specifically a mentally retarded woman.  Did he have issues over it? Certainly. Did he become a twitchy, neurotic mess? For about a day or two. Did he become a cold, cruel bastard? Not any more than he had been before.

A WW fan might suggest he 'made his humanity check'. I say bullshit.  He went through the default standard emotional responses any normal human being should go through in those circumstances.  Going 'crazy' and becoming... not just hardened but actually viscious is actually analomous.

While I am hardly a proponent of Unknown Armies as the 'best game evar' I will suggest that their model of 'humanity' was far more in line with actual human psychology by many country miles.
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Bagpuss

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2006, 02:49:43 PM »
Quote from: Hastur T. Fannon
Werewolf, Mage

All of those have a fairly rigidly-defined metaphysics and playing a character who believes something that's contrary to those metaphysics will cause problems

In Mage (at least the 2nd Ed which I'm familiar with) the line between good and evil is probably the thinest of all the WoD settings certianly when I read through it the first time my immediate assumption was that the Technocracy were the good guys, and the Traditions a bunch of selfish gits, this was even more confirmed by The Guide to the Technocracy. Sure the setting assumes that the Traditions are the good-guys, but it isn't in any way defined by the the metaphysics, the world would be a generally safer (if duller) place if the Technocracy won, also if they won magic effectively would no longer exist, so the metaphysics itself could change.

Werewolf as well has issues with some of the tribes, okay the Wyrm itself is ment to be really evil, but Vampires children of the wyrm are capable of good acts, they aren't all LE like in D&D. And some werewolves claim to be doing good by slaughtering humans, because of the damage they unintentionally cause.
 

jhkim

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2006, 03:32:30 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Its like if you were to say, play a character in a modern game: a pagan, or a buddhist, a secular humanist or a biology teacher or whatever, but the DM tells you at the last minute "oh by the way, IN THIS WORLD calvinist fundamentalist christian theology is RIGHT; and your character is predestined to HELL for who they are.. its not just a belief, IN THIS GAME its absolutely true.


Here's the thing -- you say that this applies to modern games.  But why do you say that it's only true of modern games?  The exact same thing is true in D&D.  There are real gods, and there is a specific theology which is RIGHT.  

If you hate the high priest of Hieroneous and think he's a raving bigot who just wants to slaughter orcs as racial cleansing...  Well, you're wrong.  He's lawful good -- it says so on his character sheet.  The teachings of Heironeous are right, because he's a lawful good god.  If your character is a Jain who thinks that violence is absolutely wrong, then bzzzt -- tough luck.  That sword-swinging paladin over there is lawful good.  Nothing wrong about the killing he does.  

To take an example from a real game, I had a fantasy character who was a loyal Roman citizen.  He believed that the benefits of the Roman civilization to the people and the world outweighed the problems.  He supported slavery and gladiatorial games, arguing that in a state of nature man was violent and abusive, while the Roman system couldn't eliminate that, it channeled the violence into constructive ends.  He most certainly didn't hold any modern belief that life was sacred or that all people were created equal.  In a D&D game, he'd most likely be lawful evil or lawful neutral at best.

gleichman

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2006, 03:46:51 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Its like if you were to say, play a character in a modern game: a pagan, or a buddhist, a secular humanist or a biology teacher or whatever, but the DM tells you at the last minute "oh by the way, IN THIS WORLD calvinist fundamentalist christian theology is RIGHT; and your character is predestined to HELL for who they are.. its not just a belief, IN THIS GAME its absolutely true. Just so you know; it shouldn't really change how you run the character, but he is going to go to hell after he dies.


I do basically this for my games (minor details are different). Only I do it upfront (and don't really have a match for the follow-on rant).

Doesn't seem to cause any problems at all.
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T-Willard

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From the RPGPundit's Blog: More on The Magic Deer
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2006, 04:18:31 AM »
So let me get this straight...

If you're evil, you get a kick to the crotch by the Magic Deer (HHheheheh, I can't even type that without laughing) and tossed over the border, where you are undoubtably anally molested by waiting Catholic priests who hang out at the border waiting for paralyzed anit-Magic Deer haters, bible in one hand, sacred oil anoited cock in the other.

If you dislike the Magic Deer, it swoops down and kicks you in the head and carts you off to the land of unlubed assfuckings for all eternity.

How in the name of Satan's burning nutsack are you supposed to adventure in this land?

"OK, I'm going to roll my diplomacy and see if the Baron Von Shiiitepants will eat the red crumpets instead of the blue, thereby insulting Dame Unibrow."

Oh, wait, the red crumpets were made with sugar, so it's headkicking and anal plundering time for you!

And just hoooooooooow can a Magic Deer wield a scepter anyway? Is the scepter the code name for its shlong? Does it fly down out of the sky, bash you over the head with it's Magic Deer Cock (TM) and then kick you all the way to the border, where of course, the orcs will immediately pose you in a sexually explicit pose with the last guy, or next guy, who arrives with a hoof-mark in the middle of his skull warmer.

Does the Magic Deer have hands growing out of it's head? You can't fool me, those aren't horns, those are fucking hands!

And why would the DEER give a shit? Shouldn't his primary goal to be to keep all those bipedal retards from eating his people? Why the fuck don't the people of Blue Rose graze, set out salt licks, and wait in a lotus position for a deer to come by that needs a thorn pulled out of its hoof?

Magic Deer? WTF? How hard was that to come up?

"OK, Guys, we need the Magic Overlord of Bluerose! Flip on the Nature Channel, and the first thing we see get eaten by a lion, cougar, or get hit by a semi will be our new GOD!"

Shit, they could have ripped off King Authur. They could have ripped off some African legend like Disney does.

Magic Deer? BWAH-HA-HA! That's like hitting the jackpot on the lottery and finding out that they pay you in Monopoly money. By a clown. On a bike. With his hand jammed up a midgets ass and playing the kazoo.

Seriosly, a Magic Deer? One of the most stupid (but delicious) creatues our there. "Oh, look, bright lights, just like what killed Fred, James, Cindy, Buck, Bambi an.... OH SHIT!" I mean, these fuckers are STUPID! They can't even eat out of the fucking garbage can without tipping it over.

At least a raccoon would be cool. But no, they've got to pick a DEER!

I'll just attach high frequency whistles to my armor's shoulders.

Fuck that deer.





heehehehehehehhee

Magic Deer.
I am becoming more and more hollow, and am not sure how much of the man I was remains.