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Extract from my sentbox

Started by P&P, July 16, 2015, 01:43:35 PM

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P&P

July 16, 2015, 01:43:35 PM
Quote>         From: Shannon Appelcline
>         To: osric@knights-n-knaves.com
>         Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 2:43 PM
>         Subject: OSRIC Copyright
>
>         I'm writing up a history of OSRIC, and I wondered if you could tell me if the copyright of OSRIC was indeed transferred back to Matthew Finch and stayed there, as reported in early 2009. (The OSRIC v2.2 manuscript doesn't reflect this, which is why I ask.)
>
>         Thanks!
>
>         Shannon

---------

(snip some things from Mythmere)

----------

Hi Shannon

I recall our previous correspondence when I had a concern about the moderation of your forums at rpg.net, so I was interested to receive your message.

In the light of your attitude and response at that time, I will never share any information with you or help you in any way.  If you do publish an unauthorised history of OSRIC I will do my absolute best to discredit it.

Have a nice day

Stuart Marshall

I felt some of you might be mildly entertained by this.
OSRIC--Ten years old, and still no kickstarter!
Monsters of Myth

Baulderstone

#1
July 16, 2015, 01:50:59 PM
I see no reason you need to help the guy, but deciding you are going to discredit anything he writes without even knowing what he is going to say just makes you look untrustworthy. Any criticisms you make of his writing can no longer be taken seriously.

Arkansan

#2
July 16, 2015, 01:54:54 PM
I get not sharing information with the guy but deciding offhand to discredit anything he writes on the subject is just as biased as he is. You critique a work on its own merits (or lack thereof) and nothing else.

Chivalric

#3
July 16, 2015, 02:15:18 PM
I took that discredit line to be more of a "If you do talk about OSRIC you best be careful to get things right" sort of a warning.  I would have set it differently, but hopefully Applecline takes the cold shoulder to heart and realizes he may need to reevaluate his approach to the online RPG community in general.  And make some real changes at the site he owns.

P&P

#4
July 16, 2015, 02:40:26 PM
Well, my position is that Shannon Appelcline can't possibly write a decent history of OSRIC because he doesn't have the necessary knowledge, and he'll never get it.
OSRIC--Ten years old, and still no kickstarter!
Monsters of Myth

Bren

#6
July 16, 2015, 02:58:14 PM
Quote from: P&P;842201Well, my position is that Shannon Appelcline can't possibly write a decent history of OSRIC because he doesn't have the necessary knowledge, and he'll never get it.
You certainly don't have to like or help Shannon Applecline, but your deciding a priori that he "can't possibly write a decent history of OSRIC" is a perfect example of intellectual bias.

Intellectual and social bias is what drives the toxic culture at RPGnet. Adopting the selfsame tactics to construct a mirror image of their culture doesn't improve the online environment, it just tars you with the same brush.
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

Brad

#7
July 16, 2015, 03:10:05 PM
Quote from: Bren;842206You certainly don't have to like or help Shannon Applecline, but your deciding a priori that he "can't possibly write a decent history of OSRIC" is a perfect example of intellectual bias.

Hitler could probably write a pretty good history of Auschwitz, but I'm sure Anne Frank would tell him to fuck off if he asked for details.

And, yes, I just brought up Hitler on the first page. Might as well!
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

ShannonA

#8
July 16, 2015, 03:43:10 PM
I actually came into multiple areas of Designers & Dragons with less info than I needed, and through extensive research I came up with what I hope were meaningful articles. Most of my indie articles of the '00s fit into that category, and I'm now using the same techniques for some OSR articles — a category that I'm exploring because some OSR folks thought I wasn't giving the movement enough attention, a concern that I took seriously.

I'm indeed going to do my darned best to get it right and to highlight P&P's pivotal position in the OSR. Then I plan to keep moving forward with other OSR publishers. I'm currently thinking about putting together 3-5+ articles (and then deciding what to do with them exactly, as Designers & Dragons is recently published.) If you want to keep me honest, drop me a line at shannon.appelcline@gmail.com and I'll send you a draft when I finish it, probably in a week or two.

ShannonA

#9
July 16, 2015, 03:46:27 PM
And since we're transparently sharing emails:

Stuart,

Sorry you've had a bad experience with RPGnet. There's definitely some bad feelings between some segments of the OSR community and the site — as far as I can tell primarily because a few folks in the OSR community are controversial, and were removed here by mods. If I sent you some sort of bitchy letter, I apologize. (I don't have any record of it in my email, so I can't speak more to any context.)

In any case, I'm going to do my best to write a kick-ass history that highlights the pivotal position of the two of you in the OSR movement and the great product you produced. I'll send you a copy when I have the draft so you can see what's been written. I hope to wrote an accurate and appropriate history that doesn't deserve any discrediting!

Shannon

Warboss Squee

#10
July 16, 2015, 03:59:43 PM Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 04:07:21 PM by Warboss Squee
@P&P, I certainly don't care for how ShannonA runs things over there, but that was petty as fuck man.

EDITED because I attributed the OP to the wrong poster. Apologizes Nathan.

P&P

#11
July 16, 2015, 04:01:12 PM
Because you chose to allow your staff to post a public infraction thread about me and you refused to edit its contents, I have absolutely no hesitation at all about holding this conversation in public.
OSRIC--Ten years old, and still no kickstarter!
Monsters of Myth

S'mon

#12
July 16, 2015, 04:05:11 PM
Quote from: ShannonA;842224If I sent you some sort of bitchy letter, I apologize. (I don't have any record of it in my email, so I can't speak more to any context.)

For you, it was Tuesday. :D

tenbones

#13
July 16, 2015, 04:07:45 PM Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 05:40:53 PM by tenbones
I'm not an OSR-guy (not even sure how I'd define that) - anyhow, maybe Shannon you should actually give a little consideration to how the OSR folks have been treated by your mod staff.... and many many others, rather than just blow it off and imply 'too bad so sad'.

I don't know how to perceive the gesture of your email posting, or your response. I didn't take any pleasure in the OP's post... but I do understand the sentiment (I don't agree with it - but I understand it).

Of course you might not give a shit. Which is what I think I'm getting... but then why bother posting at all?

S'mon

#14
July 16, 2015, 04:08:02 PM
Sort-of on topic, I haven't really seen any generalised hostility to the OSR at rpgnet, though certainly there is hostility to free-thinkers and iconoclasts, which includes a bunch of OSR luminaries. The greatest current hostility in the d20 forum is definitely towards 5e D&D, from some disgruntled 4e fans - not from Pathfinder fans as far as I can tell.
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