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Author Topic: Enjoy.  (Read 96001 times)

Franky

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #480 on: August 11, 2022, 05:42:41 PM »
An amusing book, https://www.amazon.com/Assholes-Theory-Aaron-James/dp/0804171351 on the subject of assholery.  I still prefer the succinct definition, "A person who demands that all social interaction happen on their terms."  (from a fellow named Ta-Nehisi Coates)

ETA: removed the ad hominem stuff.  Don't want to go down that road.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 06:15:57 PM by Franky »

Zak S

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #481 on: August 11, 2022, 07:01:52 PM »
An amusing book, https://www.amazon.com/Assholes-Theory-Aaron-James/dp/0804171351 on the subject of assholery.  I still prefer the succinct definition, "A person who demands that all social interaction happen on their terms."  (from a fellow named Ta-Nehisi Coates)


I've never done that--in fact I mostly ignore the social interaction around here

Ta-Nehisi Coates has also written about how lying about people is bad and that there's nothing wrong with authors saying you shouldn't do it.

He's a nice guy--he wrote about reparations, did the Black Panther comics for a while and grew up near me. He played DnD too.
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Zak S

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #482 on: August 11, 2022, 07:48:59 PM »
One of the nice things about the legal process is that through discovery (see: My Cousin Vinnie if you don't know what that is) and other investigations you get to see what liars actually say to each other about lying--iike you get to read their emails and text messages to each other about lying and all that. It's always the same story every time in every suit:

People lie because it's the most effective way for most people to do material harm on social media to a target. That's also why they do things that are like lying (make misleading statements, make claims that make someone look bad without checking first, etc).

However "I'm going to defend lying" or "I am indifferent to if my friend lies because we're friends" aren't comfortable rhetorical positions for the liar.

So they pointedly ignore the issue--factuality, which is so often frustratingly objective and measurable--in favor of something vaguer that is opinion-based and pretend the thing is about that, rewriting the issue on those terms.

If you call someone out for lying about something important you might be called an asshole, but if you are the liar you are definitely an asshole. But the real issue is: you lied.

So just as someone saying something antisemitic and getting caught might say "You're unamerican!" because it's easier to be vague about what's "American" people who are caught lying say "You're an asshole" because it's way easier to endlessly be vague about who is and isn't an asshole.

The issue is lying and all the things like lying. That's the important thing iand the one that's had the most impact on all the things people don't like int he RPG community and everything else is trying to substitute in some other word to avoid talking about the important thing (lying).
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 07:50:38 PM by Zak S »
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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #483 on: August 11, 2022, 08:36:59 PM »
Everyone Who Doesn't Like Me Is A Liar
(A Child's Guide To Online Interaction)

by Zak S.

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #484 on: August 11, 2022, 08:45:51 PM »
Everyone Who Doesn't Like Me Is A Liar
(A Child's Guide To Online Interaction)

by Zak S.

No just the ones who are lying.

You're doing the thing I described right now.

You got caught lying here: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/enjoy/255/ now you're trying to change the subject so it isn't about you lying.

But you lied. (Since I didn't manipulate, bully or troll anyone.)

You got caught lying.

You got asked for proof to make sure.

You didn't have it.

Because you're lying.

And now you are extremely motivated to change the subject away from how you lied about a thing.

Because defending lying is not easy for you.

But you lied.
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deadDMwalking

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #485 on: August 12, 2022, 09:11:56 AM »
I love that this conversation is continuing.  The more you assert that you can't possibly be an asshole the more you show everyone watching how you're an asshole.  The reason that I am amused is that your apparent need to be liked and respected indicates a deep-seated insecurity.  Watching you try to project an image of calm, cool, superiority while trying to hide your desperation. 

Your focus on 'lying' and your insistence on defining it as 'anything my opponent says without sufficient evidence based exclusively on my demands' is of course one of your trademarks and an odious quality.  You're trying to trick your opponent into either defending lying (which in reasonable and polite society is often done - but that's the trap isn't it - to admit that telling people you like their outfit even if you don't automatically makes everything else you say categorically false) or to ignore your demand to prove their point (creating a slow-motion gish-gallop where you claim to have rebutted things fully when you have not, refuse to quote yourself and instead demand people review a corpus of work including videos, etc). 

One thing that I'm aware of is that tone doesn't transmit well online.  But having seen you called out for tone repeatedly, along with the smugness and condescension, I think it's fair to go back to one of your former friends:

Quote
Even *just* including the qualities you would admit to, because you think they are good, the aggression and the binary mercilesness, those alone would be enough to reasonably call someone a dick.

If we include the recursive arguments, the shaming, the sniping and stalking, then it becomes completely reasonable for someone to say 'Zak Smith is a Dick' - if you take that to a lawyer as a libel case then they wouldn't accept it.

Source

Personally, I think asshole is more descriptive than dick.  Fortunately for me, I remain free to assert that I think you're an asshole; I remain free to assert that nothing you've said in this thread would even qualify as an attempt to convince me otherwise.  Being charitable, everything you've said really amounts to 'poisoning the well' - casting doubt on my ability to be honest and forthright thus casting doubt on my conclusions.  Of course, that can only work if I was trying to convince anyone else of anything.  I expect that other people will have come to the conclusion that you're an asshole, but not because of what I said.  I just want you, Zak S., to KNOW that I think you're an asshole.  Since you're so insistent that we're honest with each other, and withholding relevant information could be seen as lying, I just felt it was very important to make sure you knew how I feel. 

You are toxic.  I, personally, am in a very good place.  As a result, I feel that I can address you without feeling demeaned or sullied by your well documented argumentative tells.  I'm would not be surprised if you would like to destroy me (or see me come to ruin) because of your spiteful and vengeful ways (see: asshole).  I get the feeling that you want to intimidate people from stating their opinions when you feel that they're negative.  You're probably much more familiar than I am with libel and slander.  But I feel confident that if giving a deposition in court I could make a credible argument that you act like an asshole and that someone that acts like an asshole is, in fact, an asshole.  While I might be mistaken, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people want to tell you that you're an asshole, but they don't want to deal with you and your scorched earth reactions after they do.  Whether those people exist or not, I'm willing to tell you what I think if for no other reason than it needs to be said. 

I know that you've had conversations multiple times along these lines, and that the behavior hasn't changed.  I do want people to make up their own minds - just because I don't like you doesn't mean that you might not be someone else's best friend in the world - but I also think that people deserve a warning when someone's behavior rises to a level that can be dangerous to others. 

My advice to anyone who happens on this thread is that they should avoid you, Zak S.  That's not a decision I want to make for them, but I think between us we've certainly given them enough reason to be cautious.  So, mission accomplished. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #486 on: August 12, 2022, 09:53:25 AM »
Everyone Who Doesn't Like Me Is A Liar
(A Child's Guide To Online Interaction)

by Zak S.

No just the ones who are lying.

You're doing the thing I described right now.

You got caught lying here: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/enjoy/255/ now you're trying to change the subject so it isn't about you lying.

But you lied. (Since I didn't manipulate, bully or troll anyone.)

You got caught lying.

You got asked for proof to make sure.

You didn't have it.

Because you're lying.

And now you are extremely motivated to change the subject away from how you lied about a thing.

Because defending lying is not easy for you.

But you lied.

Your attempts to impose terms and conditions on the arguments of others, as you have done in this thread and elsewhere, are manipulative. So are your laughable attempts at armchair psychoanalysis.

Your constant and escalating accusations of lying, leveled at anyone who fails to fall for the above manipulation, is bullying, as is your insistence that your critics in the Demon City Kickstarter sign affidavits. Same with your strange habit, here and elsewhere, of going after people who "like" or quote posts you find objectionable.

Your "I'm just trying to get to THE TRUTH here!" is classic concern trolling, "I'm just asking questions" is Something Awful levels of transparent BS.

There you have it. Manipulation, bullying, trolling. I don't expect you to agree, but I'm also fine with being disagreed with, because I'm not Zak S., and also because I think that you yourself have clearly and repeatedly demonstrated the veracity of my arguments in this thread. I won't bother dredging up any of the many examples littering this thread and every other corner of the internet you've graced with your presence, because I know that the truth of my statements is self-evident to most of the people who are reading this. I also have no desire or intention to perform for you, Zak, according to your manipulative wishes. If it makes you feel better to tell yourself (and make no mistake, Zak, you're the only one falling for your BS here) that "According to my highly scientific formula, X-Y=my critics are all liars", well, you go right ahead. Just know that the overwhelming majority of people here and elsewhere are not falling for it.

Like deadDMwalking, I enjoy the fact that the more you go on, the more evidence of your assholery is scattered across the internet. Your posts are the brightly colored octopuses of the internet, a jarring, unmistakable signal warning others to stay away from the extreme toxicity contained therein. I honestly believe that baiting you into posting further (and, man, you are like Pavlov's fucking dog, there) does a public service, as it allows everyone to see what a manipulative, bullying troll you really are.

So, please, Zak, by all means, continue. I'm sure everyone here is on the verge of being convinced by your masterfully worded arguments! I'm sure the collective internet is this close to changing its mind about you, and welcoming you back into the hobby with open arms, if not a parade! You're almost there, Zak, don't quit now!

SHARK

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #487 on: August 12, 2022, 10:08:40 AM »
Everyone Who Doesn't Like Me Is A Liar
(A Child's Guide To Online Interaction)

by Zak S.

No just the ones who are lying.

You're doing the thing I described right now.

You got caught lying here: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/enjoy/255/ now you're trying to change the subject so it isn't about you lying.

But you lied. (Since I didn't manipulate, bully or troll anyone.)

You got caught lying.

You got asked for proof to make sure.

You didn't have it.

Because you're lying.

And now you are extremely motivated to change the subject away from how you lied about a thing.

Because defending lying is not easy for you.

But you lied.

Your attempts to impose terms and conditions on the arguments of others, as you have done in this thread and elsewhere, are manipulative. So are your laughable attempts at armchair psychoanalysis.

Your constant and escalating accusations of lying, leveled at anyone who fails to fall for the above manipulation, is bullying, as is your insistence that your critics in the Demon City Kickstarter sign affidavits. Same with your strange habit, here and elsewhere, of going after people who "like" or quote posts you find objectionable.

Your "I'm just trying to get to THE TRUTH here!" is classic concern trolling, "I'm just asking questions" is Something Awful levels of transparent BS.

There you have it. Manipulation, bullying, trolling. I don't expect you to agree, but I'm also fine with being disagreed with, because I'm not Zak S., and also because I think that you yourself have clearly and repeatedly demonstrated the veracity of my arguments in this thread. I won't bother dredging up any of the many examples littering this thread and every other corner of the internet you've graced with your presence, because I know that the truth of my statements is self-evident to most of the people who are reading this. I also have no desire or intention to perform for you, Zak, according to your manipulative wishes. If it makes you feel better to tell yourself (and make no mistake, Zak, you're the only one falling for your BS here) that "According to my highly scientific formula, X-Y=my critics are all liars", well, you go right ahead. Just know that the overwhelming majority of people here and elsewhere are not falling for it.

Like deadDMwalking, I enjoy the fact that the more you go on, the more evidence of your assholery is scattered across the internet. Your posts are the brightly colored octopuses of the internet, a jarring, unmistakable signal warning others to stay away from the extreme toxicity contained therein. I honestly believe that baiting you into posting further (and, man, you are like Pavlov's fucking dog, there) does a public service, as it allows everyone to see what a manipulative, bullying troll you really are.

So, please, Zak, by all means, continue. I'm sure everyone here is on the verge of being convinced by your masterfully worded arguments! I'm sure the collective internet is this close to changing its mind about you, and welcoming you back into the hobby with open arms, if not a parade! You're almost there, Zak, don't quit now!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Fucking COMEDY GOLD!!!

I almost choked on my coffee from laughing so much. ;D

Excellent commentary, Tubesock.

Semper Fidelis,

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Zak S

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #488 on: August 12, 2022, 02:36:23 PM »
I love that this conversation is continuing.  The more you assert that you can't possibly be an asshole... t

You're doing the thing again. You're changing the subject from all the things you lied about into a bunch of insults you want to call me.

It's not a strange thing to not liking it when people lie, it's not a trick to say "please stop lying" it doesn't require elaborate pop psychological explanations.

Lying about people is bad. That's all.
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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #489 on: August 12, 2022, 02:47:12 PM »

Your attempts to impose terms and conditions on the arguments of others, as you have done in this thread and elsewhere, are manipulative.

Everyone in this thread (and most threads where there is a disagreement) is talking about how they think other people should behave.

Straightforwardly announcing what you think is good is not "manipulation". Manipulation involves hidden intent.

I am going to a place on the internet where misinformation is being spread and fact-checking it for any underinformed member of the public who might stumble across it. I haven't claimed otherwise and you can't even describe why this would be implausible or require some other, secret, motivation.

Quote
So are your laughable attempts at armchair psychoanalysis.

What is the secret intent?

There isn't one. I am simply describing the only reasons I can see why you'd say that pointing out people lying is bad is...bad.

Quote
Your constant and escalating accusations of lying,

Again I am straightforwardly identifying misinformation. That isn't secretly trying to get you to do something.

Quote
...is bullying///

Bullying requires the bully have more power in the situation than who they're interacting with, and everyone here has the same power here: to type.

Unless you're saying I am telekinetically shoving you in a locker by typing, I can't bully you or anyone else here.

In fact, many of the troll posts here--including yours--are announcing your excitement and satisfaction with the fact that there is no mechanism by which I can coerce anything out of you here. That is: announcing that y'all cannot be bullied here.

It makes no sense to simultaneously announce how happy you are that no-one can coerce you into changing your behavior and claiming they are bullying you at the same time.

But even if it did, I still am using no power to do anything to you but type.

Quote
Your "I'm just trying to get to THE TRUTH here!" is classic concern trolling, "I'm just asking questions" is Something Awful levels of transparent BS.

Unless you are trying to get to the truth. Otherwise literally all science, journalism, academic study, etc is "concern trolling" as they involve asking questions to try to get to the truth

Since I am trying to get to the truth, this makes no sense.

Luckily, we tested this: I successfully sued a Something Awful troll for lying.

Quote
I'm also fine with being disagreed with

Then you can stop responding.

Quote
. I honestly believe that baiting

So your goal is to be a master baiter. Ok.
-
-
-


So there it is straight up. You're lying. You got caught again.

Attaching random negative descriptors to random straw descriptions doesn't change the fact you lied.

Believing the lying you're doing to be popular with readers doesn't change the fact you lied.

Announcing you are successfully manipulating the person you're lying about into answering against their best interest ("baiting") doesn't change the fact you lied.

All of this appears to be based in a weird belief (or desire to claim) that fact-checking is not good or useful in itself and so the behavior requires elaborate trolly explanations. It doesn't.

That's what's important to me--that people reading know you are lying.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 03:13:11 PM by Zak S »
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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #490 on: August 12, 2022, 03:57:20 PM »
... as is your insistence that your critics in the Demon City Kickstarter sign affidavits....


This is another lie you told.

I have never insisted that my critics in the Demon City Kickstarter do anything with affidavits.

Your lie appears to refer to the following situation:

1. A liar (will claim serious wrongdoing on my part

2. They also claim they're motivated by a desire to help the alleged victims

So I prove they are lying in an easy and immediate way:

I say that if they know I am guilty of serious wrongdoing then they can, if they want, help the alleged victims by signing an affidavit under penalty of perjury saying they know I did this or that bad thing since I am currently in legal proceedings with them.

They never do, which proves they are lying.

I certainly do not insist they sign anything, since them not signing the document proves they are lying.

First definition google brings up"insist: demand something forcefully, not accepting refusal."--refusal is absolutely and entirely an option in this case, and one that is acceptable to me.

Now, if things follow the usual pattern, comes the part where you go "But I, a crazed troll, am not sympathetic to you, nor are my crazed troll friends! Therefore you have no self-awareness and it is laughable that you yet post!"

Anyway the important thing is you're lying.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 04:04:59 PM by Zak S »
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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #491 on: August 12, 2022, 04:04:01 PM »
Oh, hi, Zak. Having a normal one, I see...

Zak S

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #492 on: August 12, 2022, 04:06:07 PM »
Oh, hi, Zak. Having a normal one, I see...

Luckily the translation of that's already posted:

Quote
"But I, a crazed troll, am not sympathetic to you, nor are my crazed troll friends! Therefore you have no self-awareness and it is laughable that you yet post!"
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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #493 on: August 12, 2022, 04:12:39 PM »
"From Hell's heart, I post at thee!"

-Zak S.

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #494 on: August 12, 2022, 04:13:28 PM »
"From Hell's heart, I post at thee!"

-Zak S.

I'm just here to fact check.
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

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