Enjoy.

[Zak S]

Like: you spreading misinformation doesn't change my heartbeat. This is the job. This is my life now: documenting the harassment, fact-checking the people lying.

I see stuff, I screencap it, I index the file in case I need it later.

This seems like an incredibly sad way to live one's life.  I'm reminded of the Shelter Skelter story from the old Twilight Zone where a survivalist who's built a huge bomb shelter winds up surviving a nuclear accident, thinking the Ruskies have dropped the bombs he stays holed up in his shelter and becomes completely unhinged, thinking rescuers are likely pillagers and refusing to come out.

Then you're being too dramatic and thinking about it wrong.

[Zak S]

It is hard and expensive, but these people and that business deserve to be sued for their intentional lying and trying to destroy people.

I understand this but if he truly wants to defend himself he can't just go after easy targets.

If you think GenCon is an easy target I'd love to see what you think a hard target is.

https://reason.com/volokh/2022/07/11/dungeons-defamation-role-playing-game-convention-libel-case-can-go-forward/

[Zak S]

Hey Zak! 

I'm firmly in the camp of 'you're an asshole'. I think you've proved it several times in this thread, and you've certainly proved it many other times and many other places.  But part of what makes you an asshole is that you like to demand that I go find multiple conversations and quote them here, then insist that I should have asked for clarification because you are not actually an asshole, and it's MY FAULT if I got that mistaken impression. 

Outside this fucked up microworld that's pretty much how things like that work.

Imagine being at a dinner table, calling somebody names, then when everyone asks "What made you decide that?" you just run away.

Outside the gamer internet, if you treat people like shit and have no real reason you can articulate or prove, you are the asshole--and for good reason.

I would hope it goes without saying that you shouldn't consider this harassment

It objectively is. And when I say "objectively" I mean "objectively" there. It matches the definition of harassment: your statements of having some beef are not meant to help anyone fix anything (ie they are not a critique) because the person can't get enough information out of you about your complain to change any perceived problem.

It is exactly the same, structurally, as driving past someone and yelling:

"Asshole"
"What did I do?"
"You asked what you did!"

...and driving off. A heckler is not a critic. You're not being held accountable for what you say so it has no real content. There's no way for anyone but you to separate behavior that would piss you off from behavior that wouldn't.

You claim I did something wrong and have nothing to back it up. That means you're a harasser.

[Mistwell]

Edit - This conversation was not worth having

[Zak S]

You know how stupid that looks, right?

This is the problem we're having communicating:

You're thinking I am here to speak to you and your fellow trolls (and that I need to "look good" to them) and don't understand that I am not doing that because I am not trying to. None of these words I am typing is an attempt to change the way you, Mistwell, think.

You are not the audience for the comment I am writing here: it is only addressed to you the way a person might answer an interviewer or someone at a press conference, the audience is people you will never know whose names you don't know who do not act like RPGsite regulars. You are an occasion for a fact-check.

You raise popular faq-type objections and I explain them.

Why?

Activating (or failing to activate) theRPGsite regulars doesn't do anything anyone needs done. A bunch (more) randos hating on me who have been doing that since 2009 is less of a problem than using the opportunity of them being like that as a teachable moment for people who are googling the problem and need information.

So, you guys troll harder than you were trolling before. I lose no points off the board: no action that was possible yesterday has become harder.

However, more than one person since this thread began has been persuaded to look at the video or the other evidence and begins to see the problem: that's helpful and a genuine, material win that might matter later. They've said so.

So just answering y'all straight is something that loses me nothing and gains me something (more people who do see the problem and who don't like lying).

So you can stop saying over and over "BUT YOU;RE NOT PERSUADING ME PERSONALLY INTERNET TROLL MISTWELL!!! DON'T YOU SEE HOW YOU AREN'T DOING THAT??" it doesn't matter. If you were persuaded what would you do? You yourself say you used to like how I talked to you and even then it wasn't like you were a whirlwind of helpful activism.

I am answering you guys because you're saying things that aren't true. I am doing it without the least regard for the precious conventions of webspeech you treasure.

Smart people lurking don't care about tone and aren't sympathetic to people attacking people about tone--they care what happened. Everyone else isn't smart enough to be helpful anyway.

[Mistwell]

Edit - This conversation was not worth having

[Zak S]

dp

[Mistwell]

Edit - This conversation was not worth having

[GeekyBugle]

It's like you're saying "You're a redhead that's just my opinion".

You're a whore. That's not an opinion.  That's a fact.

And you are a liar. What of it?

Say what I lied about and then prove it.

Also, as an aside, its so weird you still do this after all these years.

Not directed at you.

Although, Mistwell may have a point about about you being "alone against the world" as your attitude.

Nah. When you are dealing with a systemic problem (and, in Mistwell's case someone alleging the systemic problem is good) it's just a heap shot to say that.

All you had to do was say "Oh I meant the other guy"

Good. You meant the other guy. Good to know.

Or you could learn to read, accept you over reacted to something only you took as being directed at you due to your lack of reading comprehension and apologize for that.

Instead you act like a smug cunt.

So much so you have me defending Jeff who I have muted and can only read when you quote him.

[Visitor Q]

Imagine being at a dinner table, calling somebody names, then when everyone asks "What made you decide that?" you just run away.

God-damn. That would have gotten me out of a lot of boring family Easter dinners.





(Structurally Christmas dinners would have been funnier, but I'm stickler for auto-biographical accuracy).

[Zak S]

You're thinking I am here to speak to you and your fellow trolls (and that I need to "look good" to them) and don't understand that I am not doing that.

Except I am not one of those trolls. I was out there actively defending you to trolls.

I understand you think that. Or claim to.

However: you've been asked questions about your claims and failed to answer them, and you defended lying about people on the grounds it's good therapy for the liar. That means you're no better than them--regardless of which side you think you're on.

You come across to anyone who reads this thread in the future as a douchebag. I am not saying you're failing to persuade ME, I am saying you're damaging your reputation TO ANYONE READING THIS.

That's provably untrue because there are literally people in the comments saying they watched the video.

So: no, lil troll, you are not everyone.

You do not represent everyone.

Your intuition of what everyone thinks isn't accurate.

You can't be treated as a stand-in for everyone.

No matter how hard your lil troll heart tells you that your own reactions are universal.

[Zak S]

It's like you're saying "You're a redhead that's just my opinion".

You're a whore. That's not an opinion.  That's a fact.

And you are a liar. What of it?

Say what I lied about and then prove it.

Also, as an aside, its so weird you still do this after all these years.

Not directed at you.

Although, Mistwell may have a point about about you being "alone against the world" as your attitude.

Nah. When you are dealing with a systemic problem (and, in Mistwell's case someone alleging the systemic problem is good) it's just a heap shot to say that.

All you had to do was say "Oh I meant the other guy"

Good. You meant the other guy. Good to know.

Or you could learn to read, accept you over reacted to something only you took as being directed at you due to your lack of reading comprehension and apologize for that.

Instead you act like a smug cunt.

So much so you have me defending Jeff who I have muted and can only read when you quote him.

If Jeff engages fully and feels slighted, I would happily apologize.

[GhostNinja]

This entire thread started because I successfully sued an RPGnet mod. It changed policy at RPGnet and made that mod stop attacking people.

The moderator went away.  I still see anyone who defend you get banned from threads with comments from mods alluding to the accusations from Mandy (which I personally have no knowledge of whether they are true or not- thats for the courts)

[GhostNinja]

If you think GenCon is an easy target I'd love to see what you think a hard target is.

https://reason.com/volokh/2022/07/11/dungeons-defamation-role-playing-game-convention-libel-case-can-go-forward/

I didn't mention GenCon but if you have a case than good for you.

[Zak S]

This entire thread started because I successfully sued an RPGnet mod. It changed policy at RPGnet and made that mod stop attacking people.

The moderator went away.  I still see anyone who defend you get banned from threads with comments from mods alluding to the accusations from Mandy (which I personally have no knowledge of whether they are true or not- thats for the courts)

That may be true but a lot of other things at RPGnet have changed--not to make it better to talk there, but they do make it harder for the outside world to notice what's said on RPGnet, which is a good thing.

The chief danger of the site is that naive people stumble upon it and think what they read there is accurate. That's harder to do now.