This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Enjoy.  (Read 52020 times)

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #990 on: September 16, 2022, 03:41:00 PM »
You've repeatedly claimed I was dishonest in a variety of ways, for example the "gish gallop" (see above on this page) as well as making a number of other false accusations throughout the thread.

A gish-gallop could imply you said a bunch of things that are incorrect, misleading or false and possibly that you didn't even believe, but I don't think it rises to the level of calling you 'dishonest'.  I mean, I think you're disingenuous, and that's certainly in the ballpark.  But I don't have to call you dishonest to point out that you engage with people like an asshole.  The primary reason you are an asshole is because you make accusations without support, but then demand that everyone who makes an accusation not only support it, but support it to your very unreasonable standard.  My accusation ultimately doesn't matter if you're dishonest or not; it doesn't matter if you're arguing in good faith or not. Just because I think you're a lying twat and you're acting in bad-faith (please note, those are my personal opinions and I'm not actually making this as an accusation) has nothing to do with you also being an asshole.  Like, I also think you're almost certainly a narcissist and I've pointed out some of the symptoms that you appear to exhibit.  But actually accusing you??  I'm not a psychologist and if I were, I'd have to meet with you in person to responsibly offer a diagnosis.  So while I THINK you probably are, I'm not ACCUSING you of being one. 

But yeah, in addition to warning people that you're an asshole, it'd probably be appropriate to be even more candid in my personal assessment of your multiple personality deficiencies.  You might call it shit-flinging, but a lot of people enjoy watching what they think is a well-deserved put-down, asshole

I remain surprised that you keep encouraging me to keep posting.  We're only up to result #10 for 'Zak S, asshole' in Google Search.  With your help, we'll be up to #1 in another 60 pages or so. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Zak S

  • Just here to fact-check
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Fuck yr right wing bs
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #991 on: September 16, 2022, 04:02:21 PM »

A gish-gallop could imply you said a bunch of things that are incorrect, misleading or false and possibly that you didn't even believe...


Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 

You can't even keep your own lies straight.

You're not a reliable source of information.
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

Buy something. 100% of the proceeds go toward legal action against people this forum hates.

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #992 on: September 16, 2022, 04:54:01 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking
Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 

You can't even keep your own lies straight.

You keep trying to accuse me of ascribing moral weight to your actions.  Talking about what's right and wrong is a philosophical discussion and ultimately, irrelevant.  I don't care if you think you're doing the right thing or the wrong thing - I care about the impact your actions have on others.  What you call 'wrong' I call being an asshole.  I don't care if you think you're justified or not - it's clear that you think you are - but the actual IMPACT ON OTHER PEOPLE doesn't actually depend on whether you're honestly deluded into believing that you're an innocent victim who is always being attacked first.  It's not TRUE, but even if it was, you'd still be an asshole.  You'd just have justified that behavior to yourself and some others...not me, though.   
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Zak S

  • Just here to fact-check
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Fuck yr right wing bs
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #993 on: September 16, 2022, 04:58:56 PM »
I don't care if you think you're justified or not - it's clear that you think you are - but the actual IMPACT ON OTHER PEOPLE ...

The impact on other people is:

I did the right thing and it pissed off some trolls.

Bad people often are pissed off when people do good things, especially when that includes pointing out the bad person did a bad thing.

Anyway, you're not a reliable source of information, here's proof:


A gish-gallop could imply you said a bunch of things that are incorrect, misleading or false and possibly that you didn't even believe...


Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 07:43:41 PM by Zak S »
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

Buy something. 100% of the proceeds go toward legal action against people this forum hates.

sombodystolemyname

  • Newbie
  • *
  • s
  • Posts: 9
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #994 on: September 25, 2022, 03:32:12 PM »
You've repeatedly claimed I was dishonest in a variety of ways, for example the "gish gallop" (see above on this page) as well as making a number of other false accusations throughout the thread.

A gish-gallop could imply you said a bunch of things that are incorrect, misleading or false and possibly that you didn't even believe, but I don't think it rises to the level of calling you 'dishonest'.  I mean, I think you're disingenuous, and that's certainly in the ballpark.  But I don't have to call you dishonest to point out that you engage with people like an asshole.  The primary reason you are an asshole is because you make accusations without support, but then demand that everyone who makes an accusation not only support it, but support it to your very unreasonable standard.  My accusation ultimately doesn't matter if you're dishonest or not; it doesn't matter if you're arguing in good faith or not. Just because I think you're a lying twat and you're acting in bad-faith (please note, those are my personal opinions and I'm not actually making this as an accusation) has nothing to do with you also being an asshole.  Like, I also think you're almost certainly a narcissist and I've pointed out some of the symptoms that you appear to exhibit.  But actually accusing you??  I'm not a psychologist and if I were, I'd have to meet with you in person to responsibly offer a diagnosis.  So while I THINK you probably are, I'm not ACCUSING you of being one. 

But yeah, in addition to warning people that you're an asshole, it'd probably be appropriate to be even more candid in my personal assessment of your multiple personality deficiencies.  You might call it shit-flinging, but a lot of people enjoy watching what they think is a well-deserved put-down, asshole

I remain surprised that you keep encouraging me to keep posting.  We're only up to result #10 for 'Zak S, asshole' in Google Search.  With your help, we'll be up to #1 in another 60 pages or so.

What is your endgame here?  You hide behind your screen name, because to you this is just entertainment "You might call it shit-flinging, but a lot of people enjoy watching what they think is a well-deserved put-down" and you really have no stake in anything.  Zak is here as himself, defending himself. You claim that he makes accusations with out support when he repeatedly puts his support in his replies.  I jumped on because I like his work, and would like to see more in print, and I have seen him say that it will not happen until the community steps up -
(
From the LotFP Facebook page
Zak Smith
To say it again: "If you want it to go to print you have to go to an RPG forum besides this one and post about it. I am not going to invite all of the people who destroyed my life to destroy it more by doing a print release unless the RPG community steps up and shows a spine. Otherwise it is not worth it for any amount of money. If I just wanted money I could lots of things besides make games.".)

So I am here stepping up, what's your deal?  Just want to keep me from getting any new content in print?  Seems selfish to me.
Also, sorry if I quoted things wrong on here or anything, I don't really get how the formatting works, just wanted to get that out there.

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #995 on: September 25, 2022, 06:01:27 PM »
So I am here stepping up, what's your deal?  Just want to keep me from getting any new content in print?  Seems selfish to me.

Hey, sombodystolemyname. 

I'm sure you'll agree that we're all entitled to our opinions.  My opinion is that Zak S. is an asshole.  There's almost 40 pages of me explaining why I think he's an asshole

I don't buy his work, and I don't care whether he chooses to produce RPG content or not.  That said, if you enjoy someone's work, I understand why you'd be legitimately disappointed when a creator chooses not to create because they're being unfairly attacked.

That said, I don't think I've been unfair.  Personally, if Zak S. chooses not to produce content because I think he's an asshole, I think he's giving me entirely too much power.  But I also think that it is a new point in support of my position that I hadn't brought up before. 

In previous conversations with Zak S, he would say something crazy, then demand that we reach out to 'his girls' to bring them into the conversation.  It was clear to everyone that 'reaching out to people' that are not involved in a conversation and demanding that they weigh in would count as a form of harassment, and wouldn't have been appropriate.  Of course they're free (as you are) to jump in to a conversation that they're interested in, but forcing other people to fight your battles isn't nice

There are a lot of 'creatives' that have amazing work, but they're also 'not nice'.  How many actors have been involved in cases of domestic or sexual assault?  How many singers have been involved with cases of sex with minors?  If you think that Zak S is a creative with work you want to see, you should tell him that.  I was never interested in his creative work, but I have interacted with him.  He has consistently shown himself to be an asshole - not only when dealing with me, but with others, too.  Basically, if you DARE to disagree with him, I expect him to be an asshole to you, too.  It would certainly fit the pattern. 

So I'm sorry that my choice to express my opinion has negative consequences for you - I don't know you and I don't bear you any ill will - but I'm not sorry that I've chosen to express my opinions.  Zak S. doesn't have to PUNISH YOU for my choices - if that's what he chooses to do, I think that's a dick move, and therefore, I reaffirm my position that Zak S. is an asshole

Now, I have told Zak many times that I've said what I wanted to say where I wanted to say it.  This corner of the internet is part of the Pundit's PRIVATE FORUM.  I am not going to other forums to tell Zak that I think he's an asshole. 

On page 25, in the middle of being an asshole, Zak said;

Whoever summoned shitmuffin: let this be a lesson learned, don't do it.

To shitmuffin: fuck you, you're a psychotic asshole who does nothing but talk out his ass. That there is anyone willing to give your narcissistic bullshit the time of day at this point frankly surprises me.

And as I said the last time you reared your disgusting face: don't fucking quote me, you worthless fucking shitstain, or otherwise address me directly. You are a fucking blight, and nothing you say is of any value.

Prove it.

I saw him bullying people (not me, because I hadn't been in the conversation up to this point - the above quote is just one example) so I decided to weigh in:

Hey Zak! 

I'm firmly in the camp of 'you're an asshole'. I think you've proved it several times in this thread, and you've certainly proved it many other times and many other places.  But part of what makes you an asshole is that you like to demand that I go find multiple conversations and quote them here, then insist that I should have asked for clarification because you are not actually an asshole, and it's MY FAULT if I got that mistaken impression. 

Well, we can have an epistemological argument about whether or not it is possible to 'know' whether you're an asshole, but that doesn't sound fun to me.  Instead, I'll just go on telling people that I've interacted with you before and I felt that you came across as an asshole.  I always hope that other people choose to make their own impressions without relying exclusively on my judgement, but if they're asking for an opinion, I'll certainly give them my honest opinion - which I know you're in support of because you made the claim earlier in this thread that speaking the truth is paramount. 

If it makes you feel any better, my opinion carries very little weight with other posters on this forum.  In fact, many here might regard me calling you an asshole as a commendation of your personality instead.    But I'm not too worried about that - I'm pretty confident that if they keep engaging you in conversation they'll realize that I was right, and maybe they'll evaluate other positions where we've disagreed and make the realization that they were wrong there, too. 

I would hope it goes without saying that you shouldn't consider this harassment - you seem to have a burning need to know WHY people don't like you so I'm happy to share.  I don't make a habit of following you around and confronting you.  It's also not about whether any specific accusations leveled against you are correct or not - I can say that I thought you were an asshole before any allegations of abuse came out.  We could debate any number of situations you've factually been in and whether your specific actions would qualify as a 'yes' in any 'AITA' thread, but that would not be fun for me. 

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

I think calling someone out on their bullshit is important.  Zak also seems to think that it's important.  The big difference is, if you decide that I'm a terrible person and you don't like me (or *gasp* that I'm an asshole), I'm capable of letting that go.  Not everyone has to like me.  Zak appears to harbor some deeply held narcissistic tendencies - choosing to reorder how he lives his life because he thinks that EVERYONE WHO LIKES HIS WORK is spineless unless they come fight his battles is some messed up shit.  From my perspective, that's typical Zak S, and that's why I think he's an asshole.  I know that everyone has different standards and different tolerances for this type of behavior, so I understand that you might disagree - but I think if you looked at the posts in this thread from a 'reasonable person' standard, you'd see plenty of evidence that someone MIGHT come to the conclusion that Zak S. is an asshole, just as I have done.  I also have SEVERAL MORE conversations that I've engaged in with Zak BEFORE THIS that led me to that position. 

If you've been lucky enough to only engage with Zak when EVERYONE agrees with him, there's a good chance you haven't seen the types of behaviors that I'm talking about.  I think we all know someone that WE THOUGHT was cool until a specific situation occurred and you decided not to spend time with them because 'omg they're fucking crazy'. 

Now, there are lots of good reasons for people WITH SPINES to decide NOT to defend everyone they know, whether the attacks are warranted or not.  Nobody has to spend any more time having conversations online than they're willing to spend.  Discussing the hobby is supposed to be an enjoyable activity.  For that reason, I hope that you, sombodystolemyname, feel that coming here and posting is a valuable use of your time. 

That said, I didn't have to call Zak an asshole anymore until/unless we go to the next page, but if someone wants to know why I think Zak S. is an asshole, I'm happy to share. 

"Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
-Otto von Bismark

I think it's a mistake to engage with Zak, and I think that warning people in advance is a valuable service.  If you disagree, I encourage you to use your platform(s) and join 'Team Zak S'.  But I'd caution you - there are a lot of people who were once very close to Zak that don't have a relationship anymore.  It's possible that every one of those failed relationships involved Zak as an innocent victim, but I'd point out that the one thing they all had in common was Zak - that kinda implies that he's at least part of the problem.  If I were in your position I'd probably try telling Zak that I love his work and I think he should make more of it - but that going and engaging with a 'nobody' on the internet just isn't worth his time or even a second thought.  That's a healthy way to live your life.  I happen to know that Zak isn't capable of doing the mature thing, and while I admit that needling him is a truly petty revenge, I do enjoy it. 

There's nothing like the anticipation for Zak's next reply for the 30 seconds after I hit post before he slavers an incoherent and irate response that proves my point he claims to be responding to.  I invite you to hang out, watch for a little while, and make up your own mind about whether I'm right or not.  But hey, even if Zak is an asshole, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy his work.   
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Zak S

  • Just here to fact-check
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Fuck yr right wing bs
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #996 on: September 25, 2022, 08:49:49 PM »
Nothing deaddmwalking says should be taken seriously because he is a liar.

Here is the proof:


I saw him bullying people

Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 

I won a jillion RPG design awards.

Buy something. 100% of the proceeds go toward legal action against people this forum hates.

ScytheSong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #997 on: September 25, 2022, 09:47:48 PM »
Nothing deaddmwalking says should be taken seriously because he is a liar.

Here is the proof:


I saw him bullying people

Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 

Just out of curiosity, why do you believe that "bullying people" is the same as "doing something wrong"? I mean, I think bullying people is asshole behaviour, but is not always doing something wrong.

Zak S

  • Just here to fact-check
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Fuck yr right wing bs
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #998 on: September 25, 2022, 09:52:11 PM »
Just out of curiosity, why do you believe that "bullying people" is the same as "doing something wrong"?

Bullying people is one kind of doing something wrong.

Bullying is unfairly using power over someone to harm them. If you don't see that as bad that's weird but you do you.
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

Buy something. 100% of the proceeds go toward legal action against people this forum hates.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1109
  • Blee
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #999 on: September 25, 2022, 09:53:20 PM »
I mean, I think bullying people is asshole behaviour, but is not always doing something wrong.

That's a truly moronic statement...
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

ScytheSong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1000 on: September 25, 2022, 09:55:24 PM »
So no one else here has been bullied into doing the right thing? You all use the language wierd.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1109
  • Blee
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1001 on: September 25, 2022, 09:56:27 PM »
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1002 on: September 26, 2022, 10:07:10 AM »
Just out of curiosity, why do you believe that "bullying people" is the same as "doing something wrong"?

Bullying people is one kind of doing something wrong.

Bullying is unfairly using power over someone to harm them. If you don't see that as bad that's weird but you do you.

Saying 2+2 is 5 is wrong.  There's a right answer and a wrong answer, and it's very clear when something is right and when something is wrong.

When we discuss human action, it's not clear that we're adding 2 + 2 to get 'punch this guy in the face'.  Given the same situation based on their background and expectations, some people are going to read that situation differently.  It's easy to say 'he was wrong to hit him' - but it's also easy to say 'that guy deserved what he got'.  In those cases, people are applying different values.  Now, sometimes applying those values equates to doing something illegal.  But I think we can all agree that there are cases where even the legal system creates a 'miscarriage of justice'. 

So when you're an asshole to me, but you're acting within your legal rights, you're not doing something wrong as far as I'm concerned.  You're just choosing to be an asshole. 

Now other people like to take the position that they're the ultimate arbiter of moral value and they can paint people broadly based on a single action. 

I don't.  But that'd be sort of a foreign position for Zak:

Quote from: Zak S
(...) once you have decided that you will spend any part of your life trolling on the internet, you forfeit all rights as a human.If you should get hit by a car--no-one should help you. If you vote on anything--your vote should be thrown away.

If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Zak S

  • Just here to fact-check
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Fuck yr right wing bs
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1003 on: September 26, 2022, 10:10:50 AM »
To repeat:
Nothing deaddmwalking says should be taken seriously because he is a liar.

Here is the proof:


I saw him bullying people

Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

Buy something. 100% of the proceeds go toward legal action against people this forum hates.

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1004 on: September 26, 2022, 10:34:37 AM »
To repeat:
Nothing deaddmwalking says should be taken seriously because he is a liar.

Here is the proof:


I saw him bullying people



Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 

Did you just skip over the section where I explained why I don't think that bullying people = doing something wrong? 

Maybe I'll try another approach. 

When you shoot someone in the face, it's easy to say 'that's wrong'.  In most cases, it is!  But there are a lot of cases where shooting someone in the face is agreed as the appropriate course of action - when your life is in imminent danger and using lethal-force is necessary to avoid it, when the life of another is in imminent danger and lethal force is necessary to avoid it, when you're at war and your country needs you to defend the lives of all your mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and others at home.  Those are cases where the normal calculus doesn't work. 

Now, terms like 'bullying' are subjective, just like asshole.  Of course I don't think you should be a bully, just like I think you shouldn't be an asshole.  If I thought you SHOULD be doing those things, I wouldn't be here making sure you KNOW I think you're an asshole

So once again, your quote doesn't really support your position.  Of course, if you were applying the same rules of debate to yourself that you demand from others, you would have looked at the apparent contradiction and asked for clarification.  Demanding that others follow rules that you don't, yourself, makes you an asshole
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker