DMG II Sucks

[RPGPundit]

I have had the unfortunate chance to check out the Dungeon Master's Guide II.
 
What an utterly miserable example of Wizards' determination to run their product into the ground. What a thuroughly useless book.   This is the sort of utter crap that one expected from TSR at its lowest points.
 
If this is all Wizards' has left in the brain trust, then I'm afraid we're bankrupt.  I mean, what the fuck are they thinking?? They could be making a full-blown introductory game (and not the half-hearted excuse they passed off last year), or making... I don't know, anything! Where is the Manual of the Planes? How does Wizards fall from the brilliance that was MoTP to the total and absolute garbage that is the DMGII?
 
The book, dear readers, is nothing more than a massive collection of meaningless "DM advice"... you know, like the obligatory chapter in  most gaming manuals that everyone skips over? Yea, that. Only about 300 pages of it.  Stuff like, "make sure your adventurers get to show off their special skills".
 
This isn't Robin's Laws we're talking about, or Erick Wujcik's brilliant GMing advice in the Amber manuals. This is utter drivel.
 
How the hell they got Laws' name on the book, I'll never know. Either the guy has recently had a cocaine-fuelled pharmacological lobotomy, or its just some other guy named "robin laws", or they just gave him a small fortune for the use of the name.  I can't honestly believe that the same Robin Laws who did Feng Shui had much of anything to do with writing this steaming turd. Even if he wasn't trying, Robin Laws should be able to find better gaming material in his toilet than what is in this book.
 
You could smash open a squirrel's skull with a hammer and the resulting splatter would be a better guide for DMs than this.
 
Its not something that would be "good for novices". There's nothing being said in this entire book that isn't already said in a much more concise way in the regular old DMG!  This is like one of those essays written by a hapless college student, who discovers to his terror that his whole thesis only covers 1 page and he needs 10, so he stretches out each paragraph with brainless filler.
 
And reading it feels like reading an ad. An ad for miniatures. Everywhere. The references for miniatures are constant. "Miniatures are essential tools for running D&D fights", "Miniatures can also serve as attention-getting props outside combat", "the miniatures skirmish game can also teach you how to use terrain more effectively in your campaign".  The whole fucking thing is an ad for the miniatures and the miniature game, which is clearly what Wizards is betting the farm on these days.  They officially no longer give a crap about the RPG, and are only releasing RPG material as advertising for the miniature games.
 
Its pathetic. Its all well and good that Wizards choose to bank on the miniatures, but don't turn D&D into a vessel for propaganda of the miniature game. If you're going to do that, you may as well cancel your rpg line.
 
Among other prize quotes:
"your players will expect to play in a world resembling the Middle Ages, but with the harsh, brutal, depressing and serious elements stripped out".
 
Well fuck, those are all the good parts!! Those are what makes fantasy games work, retards. That's why Warhammer outsells Blue Rose. Are we going to go back to not being able to call demons "demons" anymore? Who the fuck ran off with Wizard's testicles? Remember? They used to have balls, I know they did.. but you certainly wouldn't guess as much based on this total eunuch of a product.
 
Then there's the obligatory monsters sections, with enemies rated by CR, like a videogame.  And the "power up" type rules of companion spirits and magic items/locations, as power ups.  This isn't an RPG anymore, its just an exercise in powergaming.
 
The only really redeemable parts of the book are some of the material on Law and justice, the business section, guilds and orders, and some of the NPC stuff, but even this is stuff you've all seen before in many different places. And the general craptacularity of the book makes it too unbearable to read, even for these sections.
 
The Saltmarsh chapter (detailing an entire fantasy town) is ok, reprinted as most of it is from an adventure module from 1981 (how's that for retro?), but is of pretty limited utility.
 
I mean really, if this is the core of Wizard's idea of how they're going to restore the customer base for RPGs, then they're in for a serious shock.  But I don't really think it is. Like I said, I think the DMGII is the sign that they've willingly chosen to give up on RPGs, that they're surrendering their position in favour of the cheaper thrill of miniature sales.
 
Basically, the DMGII might mark the deathknell of my sense of faith in WoTC, which is of very serious consequence to my opinion of the future of the gaming hobby as a whole.  Wizards is the industry leader, and if they are falling to this kind of level of absurdity, we will be back into the leaderless place we were in the early nineties.  The Swine will sense our weakness and come in for the kill.

Where is the leadership?
 
Fucking hell. I'm gonna go get something to eat. Maybe tomorrow things won't look so bleak, maybe I'll check out the Waterdeep book and find it redeemable... maybe WFRP will become the industry standard, or True 20. Maybe my cat will start to shit magic beans.
 
RPGPundit August 11 2005

[Caesar Slaad]

The book, dear readers, is nothing more than a massive collection of meaningless "DM advice"... you know, like the obligatory chapter in  most gaming manuals that everyone skips over? Yea, that.

Except it's not.

This isn't Robin's Laws we're talking about, or Erick Wujcik's brilliant GMing advice in the Amber manuals. This is utter drivel.
 
How the hell they got Laws' name on the book, I'll never know. Either the guy has recently had a cocaine-fuelled pharmacological lobotomy, or its just some other guy named "robin laws", or they just gave him a small fortune for the use of the name.

I not wizards' staff I've suspecting of pharmecutical abuse right about now. The first chapter is more or less a rephrased excerpts from "Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering." I could quote and compare sections, but it's late.

The Saltmarsh chapter (detailing an entire fantasy town) is ok, reprinted as most of it is from an adventure module from 1981 (how's that for retro?), but is of pretty limited utility.

But it's not. Yeah, it's Saltmarsh. But it's also laden with an adventure seed for nearly every site in the cite. I found that highly useful.

It's not that I think this is a fantastic book, and find a bit more use out of Green Ronin's Advanced GM's Guide on this score. But it does seem to me you are selling it short.

[Mystery Man]

It's not that I think this is a fantastic book, and find a bit more use out of Green Ronin's Advanced GM's Guide on this score. But it does seem to me you are selling it short.

Way, way short.

Chapter 2 and 3 are great for DM's just starting out filled with great advice. Even for me, I found the Archetypal Locations to be a goldmine. Saltmarsh, I agree with Ceasar it is chock full of adventure seeds, the whole human/lizardfolk relationship is interesting. I found the Students and Masters  section perfect for use in adding feats, spells, whatever from non-core books (so many books out now things can get to be a jumbled mess) rather than just having them appear out of nowhere. The DMG II is actually a pretty good book really.

[Mcrow]

I was not all that impressed with the DMG II.

I like the Green Ronin's Advanced GM book better.

[Sojourner Judas]

WotC's not completely out of ideas. Lords of Madness was extremely enjoyable, as was Hordes of the Abyss.

Given that Hordes of the Abyss is the first in a three book series, I'll still have something to tide me over. If you liked Manual of the Planes and the Planar Handbook, this series is for you.

[ColonelHardisson]

The Saltmarsh chapter (detailing an entire fantasy town) is ok, reprinted as most of it is from an adventure module from 1981 (how's that for retro?), but is of pretty limited utility.

Alright, Pundit, it's clear you've not read either the original Saltmarsh modules or this section of DMG II. The Saltmarsh section is not "reprinted as most of it is from an adventure module from 1981." This is utter nonsense. Apparently you simply glanced at it, made an assumption, and didn't expect anyone with either the original modules and/or DMG II to be reading what you wrote.

I like DMG II, after being disappointed by several recent WotC releases. I may just have to write a review of the damned thing to counterbalance this histrionic diatribe you've written here, and, y'know, tell people what the DMG II is really like.

[Abyssal Maw]

I like the DMG II for Saltmarsh (which was a nice example of how to put together a town), and the section on mentors and apprentices, and finally the 'what if the players want to open up their own business venture?' section.

[ColonelHardisson]

Way, way short.

Yup.

Chapter 2 and 3 are great for DM's just starting out filled with great advice.

Yeah, it's good stuff. The only unfortunate thing is that it needs to be in a book geared towards beginners. But even long-time DMs wouldn't be hurt to refresh themselves from time to time.

Even for me, I found the Archetypal Locations to be a goldmine.

Agreed. That was the first thing to leap to mind for me when I began reading Pundit's panning if the book. That section is pretty neat, useful, and inspirational.

Saltmarsh, I agree with Ceasar it is chock full of adventure seeds, the whole human/lizardfolk relationship is interesting.

Again, I agree. It isn't often that lizardfolk show up as a faction in a RPG city, at least one for D&D. It's an interesting element, and neatly builds upon the original modules.

I found the Students and Masters  section perfect for use in adding feats, spells, whatever from non-core books (so many books out now things can get to be a jumbled mess) rather than just having them appear out of nowhere.

I didn't cotton to this section that much, but maybe it'll grow on me.

The DMG II is actually a pretty good book really.

It really is.

[RPGPundit]

Well, this is funny.

Here we have a thread where I'm the one slamming a D&D product, and a bunch of people are coming forward to defend it.

Cool.

RPGPundit

[obryn]

WotC's not completely out of ideas. Lords of Madness was extremely enjoyable, as was Hordes of the Abyss.

Coincidentally enough, these are the only 2 WotC books I've purchased in the past 2 years or so.

Both have outstanding production values, great fluff, workable crunch, and numerous adventure seeds.  They will be invaluable to me in my current game.

-O

[mattormeg]

I sometimes think that WOTC abandoning D&D would be the best thing in the world for the game, because I believe the fans do a better job with it than the official producers.

[RPGPundit]

I think the early days of D20 pretty much already proved your assertion to be wrong.

RPGPundit