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Author Topic: Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game  (Read 10190 times)

Trond

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2020, 02:28:46 pm »
I sort of agree, if I get the point correctly. RPGs were invented by white men (not sure if that's a "mostly" or "almost exclusively"), and the hobby has remained with white men as the major demographic of the hobby. And that's not a problem. (think what would happen if anybody said "rap was invented by black guys, and has largely stayed that way, and that's a problem!")

Shrieking Banshee

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2020, 02:35:49 pm »
Quote from: Trond;1124535
I sort of agree, if I get the point correctly. RPGs were invented by white men (not sure if that's a "mostly" or "almost exclusively"), and the hobby has remained with white men as the major demographic of the hobby. And that's not a problem. (think what would happen if anybody said "rap was invented by black guys, and has largely stayed that way, and that's a problem!")

Yes. The endgoal of the sjw world is a culture less mush ruled over by their values. Id rather less of my culture stars in films them be used as this token washed out version to push whatever sjws want.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1124533
Disco is better than Punk and does not deserve the hate it gets...

Classic Rock and Metal are best though (I mean real classic rock, not that alternative rock garbage)

Im not against genres as means of expression I meant that Id say demand for limitless responsibility had eventually created a power vacume SJWs took over.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 02:42:46 pm by Shrieking Banshee »

Spinachcat

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2020, 05:09:17 am »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1124444
The solution would require undermining their base cultural underpinnings.

How would this be done? What actions are you suggesting?


Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1124444
SJWs will loose when the culture at large rejects their moral principles. And you start with that by rejecting them yourself.

I've always vocally rejected SJW stupidity, usually with much mockery. But as for "culture at large", I don't know how that happens. SJWs control our media, our tech companies, our colleges and our schools. They hold the levers of power over the culture.


Quote from: RandyB;1124455
Play by your own rules. Reject theirs without explanation or excuse, and exclude them. They do not belong; never let them claim otherwise.

Playing by my own rules is easy. That's hardcoded in me. If my future RPG groups are just 3-5 deplorable inhuman nightmares banned from every FLGS in the nation, I'm cool with that. BUT that doesn't affect the culture at large.

We have seen many conventions acquiesce to their demands, and there's every reason to believe they will make more demands, not less. Unless we have our own convention, and its successful and backs up designers who aren't SJWs, we don't have a real world public presence in the hobby.

Shrieking Banshee

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2020, 08:28:23 am »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124569
How would this be done? What actions are you suggesting?


Pointing this stuff out to the nonconverted. Maybe Im wrong but I feel that the tides are no so much turning as much as reaching a stopping point. Wheras before we where under the blitzcrieg and it seemed we where always in retreat, now people have dug in more. Mainly because SJW-ism has reached critical mass where they are destroying themselves faster then they are destroying or assimilating others.

The "War" isn't even close to over, but the way to tip it to your favor is to deprogram those that are just mildly SJW-ed instead of trying to combat the brainwashed directly.

Most people STILL thing diversity by itself is a good thing. Many people still exist under a changed view of history. Well de-convert them one by one if you have too.

jhkim

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2020, 03:12:36 pm »
Quote from: Trond
I sort of agree, if I get the point correctly. RPGs were invented by white men (not sure if that's a "mostly" or "almost exclusively"), and the hobby has remained with white men as the major demographic of the hobby. And that's not a problem. (think what would happen if anybody said "rap was invented by black guys, and has largely stayed that way, and that's a problem!")
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1124536
Yes. The endgoal of the sjw world is a culture less mush ruled over by their values. Id rather less of my culture stars in films them be used as this token washed out version to push whatever sjws want.

From my point of view, I generally approve of cultural mush. Given worldwide communication and contact, I think it's natural for cultures to be shared and blend together - maybe not into a single monoculture, but at least moreso than the present state of the world. I disagree with strong views against cultural appropriation. I think it's natural for populations and cultures to blend together as they come into contact.

I agree that diversity isn't a value in-and-of-itself, but absent xenophobia and racism, diversity is the expected result.

As far as token and/or stereotyped portrayals -- they're not great, but from my view, there need to be stereotyped portrayals before getting to the stage of non-stereotyped portrayals. One of my peeves is how many view portrayals like Charlie Chan as outstanding examples of racism -- when Charlie Chan was much more progressive than most of the other films of the era -- where Asians were explicitly forbidden from appearing on-screen. I prefer Charlie Chan to the ban-all-Asians films.

Shrieking Banshee

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2020, 03:44:53 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1124644
From my point of view, I generally approve of cultural mush.

I think that's disgusting and repulsive. I find that as a value truly abhorrent. Its akin to rooting for the Borg in Star Trek. For they embody the principles of a mush better then anything else.
About tokenism you missed my point: Under a cultural mush, EVERYTHING is token. Nothing truly believes in its own value and only exists as decoration for the mush. There are no Asian films. There are mush films with Asian influence.

Spinachcat

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2020, 03:11:53 am »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1124579
Mainly because SJW-ism has reached critical mass where they are destroying themselves faster then they are destroying or assimilating others.


You mean like Italians hugging a Chinese guy to prove they're not racist?

Yes, that was a thing in February 2020...and by today's numbers, it was clearly a big success!


Gagarth

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"The slave trade has been the ruling principle of my people. It is the source of their glory and wealth." - Ghezo King of Dahomey

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Arkansan

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2020, 10:54:36 am »
One of the key problems in dealing with SJW's is that there is no neutral ground with them, your position is either explicitly against them or the door is open for them to infiltrate and turn the group. Trying to be value neutral and simply not participating doesn't work.

You can't disagree with them on one or a few points, their brand of criticism is sweeping, either you accept the whole thing or you reject the whole thing. Either for us or against us. You can't say for instance that you reject their vision of enforced diversity, if you do as far as they are concerned you now hate gays, PoC, kittens and puppies. Conversely if you acquiesce on a single issue then the foothold is taken and they will continue to push until you are fully with the program.

The mistake is also in assuming a sense of fair play, and "if I leave them alone they will leave me alone". They are always willing to act underhandedly because they feel morally justified, they are also constantly in search of a crusade. Leaving them alone isn't enough, if they feel you are out of line then they are on the attack.

This leaves a problem where the only real solution is to turn the tables and be just as aggressive, however most aren't willing to do that. To defeat them groups that are as radically exclusionary of them as they are of outsiders must be formed, publishers, printers, etc must be as viciously harangued for "platforming" them etc.

One of Conquests laws is relevant here, Any organization or group that isn't explicitly right wing will eventually be co-opted by the left.

It's a hell of a conundrum.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 10:56:57 am by Arkansan »

oggsmash

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2020, 02:52:03 pm »
There is no conundrum.  As time goes forward, there will be a return to order.  People will look at comic characters like safespace and books like santas husband, and say enough.  If someone states openly they are my enemy, it is my duty to treat them as such.   They will inevitably create their yang to their yin, and the super toxic right that actually has influence and will comes around and round and round they both go.  Extremes pulling so hard at both ends eventually pull the middle apart.  Ah well.

Spinachcat

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Gagarth

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2020, 05:59:19 am »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124745
I got Page Not Found
Seems they deleted it is either a fine example of snowflake D&D or an awesome trolling. Here is a waybacklink unfortunately no character illustration.
https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/8264198/i-dont-know-where-else-to-put-this-need-feedback-on-characters
"The slave trade has been the ruling principle of my people. It is the source of their glory and wealth." - Ghezo King of Dahomey

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Alathon

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2020, 05:13:41 pm »
Quote from: FelixGamingX1;1124495
While me stepping back from the hobby to chase after Knights & Legends: Dawn of a New Age had nothing to do with SJWs, I can gladly say I don't miss their toxic culture. They're too fucking noisy, bunch of losers with nothing to show for. What's really upsetting is that very few people got the balls to tell them to go fuck themselves.

This is a problem of courage.  Weak modern males lack it, and females cue off their cowardly behavior.  One consequence of this is that when someone tells lies that should be immediately denied, such as that diversity is a strength or that males can become females by crossdressing and mutilating their genitals, they get away with it.  They should be slapped down immediately, excised from society if necessary, but it's just so much easier for a coward to walk away and do nothing when it's someone else getting the business end of muh wacism.  When the leftist filth get around to targeting that particular coward for compliance, he can expect no aid from anyone else and buckle immediately.

jhkim

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2020, 12:56:47 pm »
Quote from: Alathon;1125417
This is a problem of courage.  Weak modern males lack it, and females cue off their cowardly behavior.  One consequence of this is that when someone tells lies that should be immediately denied, such as that diversity is a strength or that males can become females by crossdressing and mutilating their genitals, they get away with it.  They should be slapped down immediately, excised from society if necessary, but it's just so much easier for a coward to walk away and do nothing when it's someone else getting the business end of muh wacism.  When the leftist filth get around to targeting that particular coward for compliance, he can expect no aid from anyone else and buckle immediately.
Hi, Alathon. Welcome back.

I don't agree with you on many particulars, but I agree that social conformity if anything has grown stronger in modern times. Human conformity has always been strong, but compared to recent decades, I think it's at least a little stronger with the rise of the Internet and social media. People more often tend to hang out with only like-minded others (especially liberal-vs-conservative), and they're less likely to air opinions that go against the local norms. And conversely, people are more likely to be uncomfortable with or push back against those who do speak out against the norm.

I personally find it's tricky, particularly among my real-life friends. One can come across as a contrarian jerk for speaking against the norm, which isn't helpful for changing things.

Shrieking Banshee

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Diversity is not a Virtue: Don't play the SJW game
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2020, 06:37:11 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1125447
Hi, Alathon. Welcome back.

I don't agree with you on many particulars, but I agree that social conformity if anything has grown stronger in modern times. Human conformity has always been strong, but compared to recent decades, I think it's at least a little stronger with the rise of the Internet and social media. People more often tend to hang out with only like-minded others (especially liberal-vs-conservative), and they're less likely to air opinions that go against the local norms. And conversely, people are more likely to be uncomfortable with or push back against those who do speak out against the norm.

I personally find it's tricky, particularly among my real-life friends. One can come across as a contrarian jerk for speaking against the norm, which isn't helpful for changing things.

Yet you aprove of cultural mush. I don't get it.