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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: GameDaddy on August 27, 2020, 08:59:42 AM

Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: GameDaddy on August 27, 2020, 08:59:42 AM
Get Woke, Go Broke!!!
Just what the title says. Disney and Marvel just figured out that pandering to the sjw crowd is unprofitable, ooopsie!

The SJW Purge Begins in Hollyweird! (https://cosmicbook-news.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/cosmicbook.news/disney-purging-star-wars-marvel-woke-agenda?amp=&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&fbclid=IwAR1bJ4tVHlfujdOyL6Y0HvfMgyx_PoidWRuImNkDYKiQKIXzasf9P2s0enU&_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fcosmicbook.news%2Fdisney-purging-star-wars-marvel-woke-agenda)
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2020, 01:10:08 PM
"If this leak is true."
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: RandyB on August 27, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Give it time. Highly likely that this is either a publicity stunt designed to lure the disaffected dollars back in to the coffers, or a temporary move to the same end.

Given the years of destruction wrought on beloved franchises, it should take at least an equal length of time of good behavior to regain the public trust.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on August 27, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, we now have an answer to "what is peak Woke?"

It's precisely the point when Disney's bottom line is threatened.

I expect it to be a rather strong course correction; particularly for any part of Marvel Phase 4 that hasn't entered production yet. For example, I'd bet "Thor: Love & Thunder" is getting a rather extensive re-write as we speak (it starts shooting sometime in 2021) because "Lady Thor" is about the wokest of woke in terms of stupid woke Marvel Comics decisions and if Disney is doing a hard reverse I expect that just cease to be a thing in the film (even if the plan is still for Chris Helmsworth to exit the role after the film).
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 27, 2020, 01:51:08 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/8McNH1aXZnVyE/giphy.gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/8McNH1aXZnVyE/giphy.gif)
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Brad on August 27, 2020, 01:51:21 PM
Doomcock

Yeah, seems legit.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2020, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Brad;1146690
Doomcock

Yeah, seems legit.

The guy does have some legit inside sources or is a great psychic since he was able to predict what was in The Rise of Palpatine. Doesn't mean we should take his word as the gospel, but it could be true, it could also be just a rumor or even a trap.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1146686
"If this leak is true."

I watch a lot of Doomcock and Midnight's Edge. It's all rumor mongering because no sane studio would admit the stuff they talk about. And they admit it in every video.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Spinachcat on August 27, 2020, 09:23:57 PM
We will see. I doubt this is true, but perhaps creating this rumor and getting it swung around might shake some idiot execs into thinking there's really some truth here. Or it's baiting Disney to go double woke to prove its woke allegiance and totally crash the fan base.

I'm hoping Disney goes double extra-woke...and crashes into bankruptcy.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2020, 09:31:27 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1146726
We will see. I doubt this is true, but perhaps creating this rumor and getting it swung around might shake some idiot execs into thinking there's really some truth here. Or it's baiting Disney to go double woke to prove its woke allegiance and totally crash the fan base.

I'm hoping Disney goes double extra-woke...and crashes into bankruptcy.

That would be funny as fuck, and from what I've seen of their debt it might not take that much.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: KingCheops on August 27, 2020, 09:39:09 PM
I actually enjoyed the "problem" movies but understand very much that I'm a minority there.  What I didn't like was having to pretend that Captain America wasn't being played by a douche-bag communist.  At the very least putting a muzzle on the actors is a good move.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on August 27, 2020, 11:18:34 PM
I probably can't forgive them for what they did to Luke Skywalker. I loved that character since I was 4. "A New Hope" was the first movie I ever saw.
Mandalorian is great but I haven't watched 8 or 9 or Solo. Jon Favreau seems to get Star Wars. And yeah my wife pays for Disney Plus out of her own spending money. So the mouse still gets my money seemingly no matter what I do.

Loved Mandalorian Season 1.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Thornhammer on August 28, 2020, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: Brad;1146690
Doomcock


Full of more shit than a portapotty on Free Ice Cream Day at the National Lactose Intolerance Convention.

I do not dislike what he says, but my hopes are not high.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: VisionStorm on August 28, 2020, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1146726
I'm hoping Disney goes double extra-woke...and crashes into bankruptcy.


We could only hope.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 28, 2020, 08:28:46 AM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4797[/ATTACH]

I really really do. But time will tell.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 28, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Thornhammer;1146750
Full of more shit than a portapotty on Free Ice Cream Day at the National Lactose Intolerance Convention.

I do not dislike what he says, but my hopes are not high.

  He's got an audience, so if they're trying to lure back fans, feeding a rumor like this to him and other 'influencers' would be a smart move.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Lurkndog on August 28, 2020, 11:48:59 AM
My guess is that Disney's Star Wars team will poke around in non-Sequel territory for a while, just to be able to put out product that doesn't have the stink of Rise of Skywalker on it. Then in a few years, they will quietly nibble away at the sequel era before declaring it non-canon.

There is lots of talk about the High Republic era, for instance. Which sounds a lot like what I wanted out of the sequel trilogy.

Dave Filoni will probably get to do more Star Wars Rebels at some point, hopefully. Possibly in his down time between work on The Mandalorian. I'm pretty sure he did the new Clone Wars stuff between seasons 1 and 2 of Mando.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 28, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
My thought is:

I don't give a shit. If your best friend insults you one day, those wounds can be healed.
If your best friend burns down your house and murders your wife he can fuck himself when he is crawling back.
I don't give a shit that some corporation is going walk back (Some) changes after disatrous comitee design.
Star Wars is DEAD. It was dead when the comitee took over ensuring that it would never be creative or risky (not in the socjus kill Luke Skywalker) way again.

People here are chomping at the bit to have their friend resurrected as a frankenstiens monster abomination. Let it rest. We don't need more reboots. Its dead jim. No amount of reboots will make it better.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: RandyB on August 28, 2020, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146799
My thought is:

I don't give a shit. If your best friend insults you one day, those wounds can be healed.
If your best friend burns down your house and murders your wife he can fuck himself when he is crawling back.
I don't give a shit that some corporation is going walk back (Some) changes after disatrous comitee design.
Star Wars is DEAD. It was dead when the comitee took over ensuring that it would never be creative or risky (not in the socjus kill Luke Skywalker) way again.

People here are chomping at the bit to have their friend resurrected as a frankenstiens monster abomination. Let it rest. We don't need more reboots. Its dead jim. No amount of reboots will make it better.

The fantasy is that the EU will be recanonized and become the basis for the new continuity. Whatever Disney or anyone else does with Star Wars, that won't be it.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: VisionStorm on August 28, 2020, 03:08:09 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146799
My thought is:

I don't give a shit. If your best friend insults you one day, those wounds can be healed.
If your best friend burns down your house and murders your wife he can fuck himself when he is crawling back.
I don't give a shit that some corporation is going walk back (Some) changes after disatrous comitee design.
Star Wars is DEAD. It was dead when the comitee took over ensuring that it would never be creative or risky (not in the socjus kill Luke Skywalker) way again.

People here are chomping at the bit to have their friend resurrected as a frankenstiens monster abomination. Let it rest. We don't need more reboots. Its dead jim. No amount of reboots will make it better.


Yeah, Star Wars was pretty on life support for me as a franchise since the prequels and The Mary Sue Awakens simply pulled the plug as far as I'm concerned. This franchise's corpse has been ran over more than I can count. It's just chunks of ground meat and bones splattered all across the street at this point. I do admit that I liked the Mandalorian, but one series is not enough to resurrect this desecrated corpse and the evil corp that owns it does not deserve one cent from us regardless (I'm gonna plea the Fifth on how I got to see the Mandalorian, me laddies).

I just hope that Disney does double down on the woke BS and it digs its own grave and dies in it like the piece of shit evil corp that it is. Even if it didn't kill what was left of Star Wars, Disney deserves to die an undignified death.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 28, 2020, 04:03:02 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1146805
The fantasy is that the EU will be recanonized and become the basis for the new continuity. Whatever Disney or anyone else does with Star Wars, that won't be it.

Why would anyone believe that? Heck, I can't even wrap my mind around that one. Too many legal issues.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: RandyB on August 28, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146813
Why would anyone believe that? Heck, I can't even wrap my mind around that one. Too many legal issues.

Wishful thinking on the part of the EU fanatics. And I did say that it is a fantasy.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 28, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1146807
Yeah, Star Wars was pretty on life support for me as a franchise since the prequels and The Mary Sue Awakens simply pulled the plug as far as I'm concerned. This franchise's corpse has been ran over more than I can count. It's just chunks of ground meat and bones splattered all across the street at this point. I do admit that I liked the Mandalorian, but one series is not enough to resurrect this desecrated corpse and the evil corp that owns it does not deserve one cent from us regardless (I'm gonna plea the Fifth on how I got to see the Mandalorian, me laddies).

I just hope that Disney does double down on the woke BS and it digs its own grave and dies in it like the piece of shit evil corp that it is. Even if it didn't kill what was left of Star Wars, Disney deserves to die an undignified death.


Agreed in every single point.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 28, 2020, 06:30:13 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1146805
The fantasy is that the EU will be recanonized and become the basis for the new continuity. Whatever Disney or anyone else does with Star Wars, that won't be it.


Do you want Disney Fondling the EU? Even if your fantasy comes true it will be dictated by a committee with no creative direction or risk.
And so what? The EU has plenty of stinkers. Lots of monotonous repetitive nihilistic grind. To a certain degree the Disney U is the worst parts of the EU concentrated into a ball.

What made star wars great was the mystery and the first time you experienced the stuff. If Star Wars was made with the same sort of fan mentality we have today it would have been "Flash Gordon the Film".

Get something new. Get new ideas. Move on. Thats the creative Star Wars spirit. Not the same stuff 100 times. Get out of the franchise cash cow mentality. It was an unhealthy one before, but now its a mentality of going back to your abuser.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 28, 2020, 07:04:47 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1146805
The fantasy is that the EU will be recanonized and become the basis for the new continuity. Whatever Disney or anyone else does with Star Wars, that won't be it.


Gross. I'm not a fan of the EU at all. Most of it is silly, awful or both.

I'd rather they make new Star Wars stuff, that's grounded in what came before. The Mandalorian... is The Way. (Had to do it)
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: RandyB on August 28, 2020, 07:53:12 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146825
Do you want Disney Fondling the EU? Even if your fantasy comes true it will be dictated by a committee with no creative direction or risk.
And so what? The EU has plenty of stinkers. Lots of monotonous repetitive nihilistic grind. To a certain degree the Disney U is the worst parts of the EU concentrated into a ball.

What made star wars great was the mystery and the first time you experienced the stuff. If Star Wars was made with the same sort of fan mentality we have today it would have been "Flash Gordon the Film".

Get something new. Get new ideas. Move on. Thats the creative Star Wars spirit. Not the same stuff 100 times. Get out of the franchise cash cow mentality. It was an unhealthy one before, but now its a mentality of going back to your abuser.

Not my fantasy. Decanonizing the EU was the only thing Disney did right.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 28, 2020, 10:28:42 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146813
Why would anyone believe that? Heck, I can't even wrap my mind around that one. Too many legal issues.


I don't think there are any legal issues--Lucasfilm has always owned it all--but no, it's not going to happen. I spent a quarter-century invested in the old EU, and liked much of it, but I would have been fine with a new take if the replacement had been satisfactory. Instead, I found it cynical, repetitive and generally joyless.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Aglondir on August 29, 2020, 01:20:36 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146829
Gross. I'm not a fan of the EU at all. Most of it is silly, awful or both.

My favorite EU story was in Tales of the Bounty Hunters, the one where Boba Fett is conducting a caper with a friend who replaced his head with a blaster canon.

No wait... that was silly and awful.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jeff37923 on August 29, 2020, 02:35:26 AM
Bitch all you like people, but the Rogue and Wraith squadron books were golden as was the Thrawn Trilogy. The prequels were not the greatest and the sequels sucked (even I as a fanboi could only watch them once), but The Mandalorian and Rogue One have set the new standard for what to achieve with Star Wars. As for current canon writers, Chuck Wendig is a putz hack who got fired, yet EK Johnston isn't bad.

Maybe Disney will learn and fix itself. Maybe the Doomcock will sing.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 29, 2020, 08:05:14 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;1146863
The Mandalorian and Rogue One have set the new standard for what to achieve with Star Wars.

Mediocrity? Not sure why thats worth being so excited about.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Trond on August 29, 2020, 09:24:43 AM
I think there's a secondary source that may confirm the news (hopefully). Apparently Brie Larson has been upset about some recent decisions at Disney (according to my wife, who has been watching the Quartering and some others)
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: HappyDaze on August 29, 2020, 09:33:48 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;1146863
Bitch all you like people, but the Rogue and Wraith squadron books were golden as was the Thrawn Trilogy.


I've re-read the original Thrawn trilogy recently and, while it's not as good as it seemed to me when I was right out of high school, it's far better than the new Thrawn trilogy which makes Thrawn out to be a total Marty Stu without any flaws (seriously, thered-eyed blue guy breezes through combats that take out his total slouch of a companion like a little bitch--that companion being Clone Wars-era Anakin Skywalker).
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jeff37923 on August 29, 2020, 01:53:00 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146872
Mediocrity? Not sure why thats worth being so excited about.


Damn, son! I'm sorry that you have forgotten how to be young at heart! Show me on the doll where old age touched you......
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 29, 2020, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146872
Mediocrity? Not sure why thats worth being so excited about.


I really liked The Mandalorian. There seems to be a lot of people who do.
I get that some people weren't as into it, but I'd hardly call it mediocre.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jeff37923 on August 29, 2020, 03:20:27 PM
To say that there is some shit in Star Wars, both the Legends EU material and the recent Canon material, is not wrong. The Good Stuff that Isn't Shit, is outstanding though. If it wasn't outstanding then why would so many people be Star Wars fans who both love the franchise and hate what Kathleen Kennedy has done to it?
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Lurkndog on August 29, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1146841
Not my fantasy. Decanonizing the EU was the only thing Disney did right.


I generally agree. There were some good bits that could be salvaged, but I am much happier with them recycling the few good ideas, and leaving the rest in the dumpster with the Christmas Special.

As for ongoing stuff, I like The Mandalorian, I liked Rogue One, and I kinda liked Solo. I found The Clone Wars to be very uneven, but the good parts were quite good, and in general it redeemed the prequel era for me. I also really liked Star Wars Rebels, though the series finale kind of hit me out of left field.

Star Wars Resistance was mediocre kiddie fare. I didn't hate it, but I don't think there's much reason to watch it either.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 29, 2020, 04:03:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1146891
Damn, son! I'm sorry that you have forgotten how to be young at heart! Show me on the doll where old age touched you......
When I stopping valuing name brands and franchise factor alone. As for when I started valuing complete stories and not rehashes if the same stuff over and over....15?

Whatever you liked about the mandelorian is up in the air at the whims of soulless corporate suits. I cant get investeted if the next suit says baby yoda should die of a deathstick overdose after nuking orphans.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jeff37923 on August 29, 2020, 04:10:23 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146908
When I stopping valuing name brands and franchise factor alone. As for when I started valuing complete stories and not rehashes if the same stuff over and over....15?

Whatever you liked about the mandelorian is up in the air at the whims of soulless corporate suits. I cant get investeted if the next suit says baby yoda should die of a deathstick overdose after nuking orphans.

Son, it is science fantasy! Nobody is asking you to be invested in it! What the Hell are you thinking, that if you like the show that means that you must have a commitment to it and you'll pay alimony if you ever get bored with it?
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: VisionStorm on August 29, 2020, 04:42:37 PM
Baby Yoda aside (and only because people object to him, mainly on the basis that he's kind of a cutesey gimmicky character), The Mandalorian is the literally the BEST thing to come out of Star Wars since the Holy Trilogy. And I still totally despise the soulless evil corp that owns the franchise, but its true! My only issue with it is that it's so good that it could actually have the potential to keep the franchise alive and maybe eventually give Disney some sort of return on their investment, which I don't want (I want it to BURN!). But if I was gonna play a Star Wars RPG, it would be set around the Mandalorian timeline.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on August 29, 2020, 04:48:37 PM
Honestly, the way I'd salvage Star Wars is do a thousand year time jump and introduce an all new conflict with all new characters.

Establish that a dark age wiped out much of the past and what's left has been relegated to myth and legend with the story of the OT being the only one widely remembered (the stories of Luke, Han and Leia are basically like someone telling the story of King Arthur teaming up with Robin Hood and Maid Marian against King John and his dragon Mordred).

Then proceed to world-build from there with all new heroes and villains and enough stylistic similarity that you can believe the universe is connected to the OT (see the ships and tech in the SWTOR MMO for an example of how to evoke feelings of connection to classic Star Wars designs without being carbon copies... that said; stylistically similar but different designs were one of the few things the ST actually did well).

Personally, I'd go with a shattered galaxy where there is no galactic Empire or Republic, just small "feudal" realms spanning one to a dozen planets and countless smaller wars between them (so you don't need the endless succession of galactic conflicts that prevent characters from ever getting a happily ever after... just have a new smaller war break out elsewhere in the galaxy as needed).

Frankly, Star Wars has never been all thst great at making conflicts feel like they're truly galactic in scale (the Clone Wars series being the only one to really get close); a conflict between a half-dozen worlds that endangers billions of lives wouldn't feel that much different than one engulfing the supposed "thousand thousand worlds" of the Republic/Empire.

Similarly, there's no need for a singular monolithic organization of Force users. Establish multiple orders, some of them Jedi claiming true descent from pre-Empire Jedi, others clearly reconstructions originating from the discovery of lost Jedi artifacts or writings, still others based on some other understanding of the Force (ex. The Witches of Danthomir).

But those are just my thoughts based on the notion that Rise of "Skywalker" basically makes trying to build anything directly off the ST toxic, but that going forward is still better than say, going back to the Old Republic era, just because no matter how far back you go there's still "all this comes to naught and ends up at Rise of Skywalker" sitting in the back of your head.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 29, 2020, 05:36:26 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1146909
Son, it is science fantasy! Nobody is asking you to be invested in it! What the Hell are you thinking, that if you like the show that means that you must have a commitment to it and you'll pay alimony if you ever get bored with it?

I mean if I want to watch something to not be invested in I have walls of paint, the back of my hand, scratches in the cement. And those are free. I can look out the window and watch the birds buzzing about if I want something with the slightest bit of investment in it. And again thats free. Another tired story in tired locations whos every single detail and mystery has been immaculately overexplained over the past 30 years is just not anything I need in my life.

Scary as it might seem, I may be one of dem youths but I'm not so attention deprived and desperate for corporate CGI explosions every 25 seconds. I can read a science fiction/ fantasy book (THE HORROR) with the same sort of themes or ideas but fresher cheaper, longer, and for better quality. Heck even a 1940s pulp story would be good.

Quote from: Chris24601;1146913
Establish that a dark age wiped out much of the past and what's left has been relegated to myth and legend with the story of the OT being the only one widely remembered (the stories of Luke, Han and Leia are basically like someone telling the story of King Arthur teaming up with Robin Hood and Maid Marian against King John and his dragon Mordred).

No need for more grimdarkness but this is the closest sort of thing I would like. Keep it new and mysterious.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: KingCheops on August 29, 2020, 09:04:00 PM
Quote from: Lurkndog;1146906
I generally agree. There were some good bits that could be salvaged, but I am much happier with them recycling the few good ideas, and leaving the rest in the dumpster with the Christmas Special.

As for ongoing stuff, I like The Mandalorian, I liked Rogue One, and I kinda liked Solo. I found The Clone Wars to be very uneven, but the good parts were quite good, and in general it redeemed the prequel era for me. I also really liked Star Wars Rebels, though the series finale kind of hit me out of left field.

Star Wars Resistance was mediocre kiddie fare. I didn't hate it, but I don't think there's much reason to watch it either.


I've got pretty much the same taste as you.  Thrawn isn't 100% the same as EU but they did good by him and kept most of the stuff that made him cool without being a rehash.  I think Wendig's books along with the Poe Dameron comics/Resistance cartoon was meant to be their entry into the Fighter Pilot portion of the EU but, apart from the Poe Dameron comics they f'ed it up pretty bad.

They actually have a butt ton of good political intrigue, spy, and war stuff they can cover between Endor/Mandalorian and the Bloodlines novel to be able to churn out great stuff for another 25 years before they finally get back to a good tentpole trilogy.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on August 29, 2020, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146918
No need for more grimdarkness but this is the closest sort of thing I would like. Keep it new and mysterious.
No more Grimdark than the High Middle Ages (and for that matter it turns out that, for the common man, the Dark Ages weren't that grimdark either, based on remains the average health and life expectancy of the common folk in Europe went UP when Rome fell; the only thing "dark" is the paucity of written records during the period... more that moderns are "in the dark" about the period than that the period itself was "dark").

But that's also the reason I suggested a thousand year jump... its so the collapse and subsequent dark age that makes everything before into legends could have occurred centuries before the current times (and centuries AFTER the OT so there's no "why didn't any of the characters we knew do something?" because even if they lived to old age they still died centuries before the dark age began).

I'd figure whatever Post-ST government lasts say, 200 years. Then it falls apart like Rome (so about AD 470-ish), you get about 500 years of Dark Ages (c. AD 500-1000) and then the present age is 300 years after that (c. AD 1300 in terms of the formation of new countries and general recovery).

Basically, instead of telling stories set in Space Rome (i.e. Ep I-XI period) with a single unified galaxy/continent spanning government... you're now telling stories set in Space Britain, France, Spain, Germany, etc. c. AD 1300.

My thinking too would be that the Jedi would be broken up into smaller factions so you'd have Jedi Templars, Jedi Hospitalers (and some that are basically the Knights of Columbus... i.e. a modern order that tries to model itself on the ideals of past knightly orders) so there's no "one true way" (sorry Mandalorian fans) and you could have the married Jedi of the EU in one order while another order says only celibate warrior monks can be members... whatever the story needs in terms of the setting's "magic system."
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 29, 2020, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: Chris24601;1146940
No more Grimdark than the High Middle Ages

Well your talking about something akin to the Foundation tier galactic collapse. Im not sure how that can't be seen as dark. Sometimes with the Star Wars EU I joke that "A Grim Time ago, in a Dark Galaxy away there is only war". Its a series that already suffers from a glut of unending galaxy spanning galactic warfare.
I find myself agreeing with you on everything else. Im just saying it doesn't need more centuries of Sith rule punctuated by brief periods where the Jedi eek out a temporary success.

The issue with Space Countries is that it kinda say that the best times....Are forever lost. No more space councils. Just warring states locked into eternal Civil war. With even the jedi descending into bickering impotent tribes incapable of making peace.

Im not sure the best way for a reset from toxicity is to imply and end the state of the galaxy in an even somehow even more toxic state then before.

Edit: I have a hot new idea: How about a new series with all the stuff you said in it, with no baggage from the past and the opportunities to have everything be dynamic and new again?
See what I mean about everybody locked into franchise mentality?
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: VisionStorm on August 30, 2020, 02:11:01 AM
There was only one direction they could've gone for a sequel that would've kept proper continuity for the franchise and would've made sense, and that was to do a 180 on the overriding theme of the original movies of rebels trying to bring down a corrupt government and making it instead about the heroes establishing the New Republic as a struggling young government and fighting to keep it together rather than tear it apart. They could've portrayed the New Republic as a fragile alliance between reluctant member worlds, skeptical of joining yet a new intergalactic order, while the heroes struggled to keep them on board as they battled the remnants of the Empire at edges of New Republic space.

There could've been Imperial fiefdoms all over the place keeping a tight leash over worlds still under Imperial control, and member worlds with corrupt governors trying to play both sides against each other to secure a better position for themselves. There could be wars for liberation and betrayals, new worlds coming into the fold and dissatisfied member worlds defecting to the Empire or breaking off on their own at the wrong time. Luke struggling to establish a new Jedi Order and provide guidance to young Force users, while trying to rediscover lost Jedi lore. Lots of political intrigue going on in the background as they struggle to establish a stable new government and thwart attempts from hidden Imperial Agents against the new Prime Minister's life, etc.

But they blew it and now that chance is gone. Resetting the entire franchise to some distant, barely connected era without establishing WTF happened after the heroes defeated the Empire and what direction the galaxy took afterwards would've made no sense. Same way that the crap they did in the actual movies made no sense, because it was all up in the air. It's like the originals never happened and nothing they did made a difference. Now they were fighting a new version of the Empire at some undefined point in the future, because...reasons. Setting it one thousand years in the future with some unrelated generation at an era where everything from the timeline of the originals was gone and little recognizable to tie it back, yet still calling it "Star Wars" instead of something else, would've been even more confusing.

There is no "saving" Star Wars and there's no salvaging it anymore. And there's no reason to try, cuz it's not like we ain't over saturated with entertainment. It ain't the 70s anymore. Sci-fi flicks with cool special effects are a dime a dozen these days and there could be much more--far too many franchises that haven't even been tried yet, to get stuck on one franchise that they already ruined. They fucked it up, good job. It's time to move on.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: HappyDaze on August 30, 2020, 02:29:05 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1146946
There was only one direction they could've gone for a sequel that would've kept proper continuity for the franchise and would've made sense, and that was to do a 180 on the overriding theme of the original movies of rebels trying to bring down a corrupt government and making it instead about the heroes establishing the New Republic as a struggling young government and fighting to keep it together rather than tear it apart. They could've portrayed the New Republic as a fragile alliance between reluctant member worlds, skeptical of joining yet a new intergalactic order, while the heroes struggled to keep them on board as they battled the remnants of the Empire at edges of New Republic space.

There could've been Imperial fiefdoms all over the place keeping a tight leash over worlds still under Imperial control, and member worlds with corrupt governors trying to play both sides against each other to secure a better position for themselves. There could be wars for liberation and betrayals, new worlds coming into the fold and dissatisfied member worlds defecting to the Empire or breaking off on their own at the wrong time. Luke struggling to establish a new Jedi Order and provide guidance to young Force users, while trying to rediscover lost Jedi lore. Lots of political intrigue going on in the background as they struggle to establish a stable new government and thwart attempts from hidden Imperial Agents against the new Prime Minister's life, etc.
So basically the EU's New Republic and New Jedi Order then?
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Omega on August 30, 2020, 03:16:06 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146693
I watch a lot of Doomcock and Midnight's Edge. It's all rumor mongering because no sane studio would admit the stuff they talk about. And they admit it in every video.


I have watched both now and then on subjects knew about and have to say that when they arent over-reacting. They tend to be spot on. They just happen to over-react alot. But thats to be expected once resistance sets in firmly and and you start to see trouble brewing sometimes where it isnt really.

They probably do have some insiders. People utterly tierd of what is going on and willing to pass on news and rumours when they can.

We used to see this in the RPG biz. People in TSR and later WOTC, and especially Palladium would pass on insights, experiences, and more of the goings on behind closed doors. I used to talk with a few and its pretty messed up sometimes. And Ive been at ground zero of several convention messes and behind the scene acts from con managers and vendors. Same with a few book authors I used to know.

Theres allways going to be people fed up enough they want to talk and pass on whats going on.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Slipshot762 on August 30, 2020, 06:44:58 AM
The force awakens was the same script as a new hope with slight changes. No one liked the character of rey being super awesome from the get go with no training, luke didn't even become competent until his third movie. Killing off beloved characters in such meaningless ways was just lame. Starkiller base had a trench that could be seen from space yet to be dogfighting in it it wasn't all that big in those shots. The scale issue is a jj abrams thing, you see it in all his work, in the second nu-trek movie klingons are roping from a bird o prey that couldn't hold maybe 3 of them, you see this again in one of the nu-wars movies when leia and a transport (essentially a metal rectangle) land and like 50 people pour out of it, there would be no room for any machinery in there. JJ abrams needs a spatial acuity test and better glasses.

First order was never adequately explained and the lame attempt to make them nazis for nazis sake is eye rolling. 30 years had passed since battle of endor but tie fighters (but with shields) are still in use? xwings too? medieval stasis comes to star wars i guess. what is the point or purpose of the supremacy other than being bigger for biggers sake? you could have built like 4-5 SSD for the same price/material and been that many times as effective in conquest. And hyperspace doesnt work that way btw, what WOULD happen is the hypermass shadow (assuming the supremacy generates one large enough) drags you back into real space at the point, where your two ships collide at normal sublight speeds. If that bullshit worked at all no one needs starships just attach hyperdrives to tungsten rods and fire them at everything including planets.

i've seen plenty of movies (sharknado) where i was like damn two 12 y/o wrote this shit didnt they? "yesh and it would be really cool if the truck spun around landed on its wheel finished the loop then exploded and the wheels embedded in the thing and the thing topples on the guy and the guy drops his radio and it sends the signal and then the other thing explodes too omg so awesome then add a shot of her boobs all sweaty" (this was the quality of work the nu-wars movie seemed to have).

alien animal cavalry on the hull of a ship the doesnt simply rotate and dump your ass? scattered disjointed plot crap like finn and rose side trip to casino land that seemed to have no bearing on anything? dagger macguffin hidden snake tomb pit plot point ass-hattery? sheev on a stick? and sheev, really? fucking sheev?

if this is the kind of movie (from a great saga mind you) that a comittee produces, just imagine what kind of wonderful planned economy or society it would produce.

nu-wars is not star wars. episodes 1-6 and all the comics and novels are star wars. i don't know what this new shit is but i piss upon it with derision.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: VisionStorm on August 30, 2020, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze;1146948
So basically the EU's New Republic and New Jedi Order then?


Yes! :p

And the reason the EU did those is cuz that's the ONLY logical progression coming out of Return of the Jedi for the Star Wars franchise. How different people may go about achieving that and what types of "side quest" may come up along the way may vary, but any SW sequel that doesn't establish WTF happened to the Republic government and the Jedi after the first trilogy and makes that the centerpiece of the follow up series is SHIT!
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: HappyDaze on August 30, 2020, 05:22:06 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1146976
Yes! :p

And the reason the EU did those is cuz that's the ONLY logical progression coming out of Return of the Jedi for the Star Wars franchise. How different people may go about achieving that and what types of "side quest" may come up along the way may vary, but any SW sequel that doesn't establish WTF happened to the Republic government and the Jedi after the first trilogy and makes that the centerpiece of the follow up series is SHIT!

And then the Vong happened.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Spinachcat on August 30, 2020, 05:45:01 PM
All the old franchises have been driven into the ground and now they're just recycling nostalgia or vomiting SJW crap on the audience. And I doubt that's going to change because Hollywood knows even most of the haters buy tickets, and the masses will diligently watch what they're told. Streaming makes the long tail even more profitable, so there's even more incentive to just add crap to the franchise bucket.

However, sooner or later, somebody is going to create something new and cool...and they'll run that into the ground too. Until then, we're gonna get lots of double-woke bullshit "disguised" as entertainment.
Title: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shasarak on August 30, 2020, 08:30:46 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze;1146981
And then the Vong happened.


And that was where Star Wars went Vong.

It's the Vong trousers Gromit! And they've gone Vong!



Thank you folks, I'll be here all week.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Lurkndog on September 07, 2020, 01:29:04 PM
So basically the EU's New Republic and New Jedi Order then?
Like that, but actually good.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: HappyDaze on September 07, 2020, 01:56:27 PM
So basically the EU's New Republic and New Jedi Order then?
Like that, but actually good.
There were parts of that I liked. The EU Bothans were one such part. They were a part of the New Republic but very much had their own ways and agenda distinct from the Republics pan-galactic mono-culture (or, at least the appearance of such).
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Premier on September 07, 2020, 03:02:45 PM
30 years had passed since battle of endor but tie fighters (but with shields) are still in use? xwings too? medieval stasis comes to star wars i guess. what is the point or purpose of the supremacy other than being bigger for biggers sake?


Disregarding the rest of your post, this bit here is just ignorant whining for whining's sake.


Right now, today, the following items are in widespread use in the US military:


- F-15 Eagle. 44 years old.
- Hummvee. 36 years old.
- M2 Bradley IFV. 39 years old.
- M1 Abram main battle tank. 40 years old.
- M4 carbine. 26 years old.
- M240 machine gun. 43 years old, the design itself is older.
- Mk 19 grenade launcher. 42 years old.
- M2 Browning HMG. Original design 87 years old.


And this in a military which is only trying to keep its equipment up-to-date in a single nation, rather than an entire galaxy.


The use of 30-year-old technology is perfectly normal in militaries. If you want to criticise the sequel trilogy, criticise it with non-stupid arguments.

Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on September 08, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
The use of 30-year-old technology is perfectly normal in militaries. If you want to criticise the sequel trilogy, criticise it with non-stupid arguments.
The ship and updated stormtrooper designs in the ST are about the ONLY things I don’t have a criticism for in the ST.


The X-Wings aren’t the precise same design as the OT so they’re like the F-35 vs. an F-16; both are still pretty “plane-shaped.”


Also on the tech side, my favorite part of The Mandolorian was actually seeing the TIE Fighter land... of course it makes perfect sense the radiator fins folded down and actual landing gear would be in the underside hatches.*


And while TLJ’s hyperspace ram was awful, the technical explanation of how ray shielding works (i.e. why capital ships have to slug it out at close range because at greater distances their shields basically make them invulnerable to weapon fire and why starfighters are needed since they can fly right through the ray shields to deal damage to weapons and ray shield generators) was lore gold.


* TIE Fighters get a very bum rap and most of it can be laid at the feet of WEG; who were the sources of the TIEs have no shields, ejection seats, landing gear or even life support and the “wings” are solar panels and those got carried over into the EU by way of Zahn using RPG material to flesh out his Trilogy that basically put the EU on the map in the early 90s.


The actual TIE Fighters had shields (you can see “shield flashes” around TIEs during ANH), ejection seats (seen in a blink and you’ll miss it in ESB), landing gear and life support (The Mandolorian; the pilots in the OT have full helmets for the same reason OUR pilots wear oxygen masks while flying despite having pressurized cabins... redundancy).


The ONLY things they lacked relative to X-Wings were hyperdrives and torpedoes; neither of which are particularly useful for anti-starfighter interceptors... but then the Empire has the resources to produce dedicated weapon platforms like interceptors and bombers and long range strike fighters like Vader’s while the Rebels put their limited resources into hit-and-fade multi-role starfighters.


I have a great deal of respect for the gearheads behind the tech that’s showed up in the live action material. It’s not their fault Kathleen Kennedy had woke blinders on and put their stuff into crap stories.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 08, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
The use of 30-year-old technology is perfectly normal in militaries. If you want to criticise the sequel trilogy, criticise it with non-stupid arguments.
The ship and updated stormtrooper designs in the ST are about the ONLY things I don’t have a criticism for in the ST.


The X-Wings aren’t the precise same design as the OT so they’re like the F-35 vs. an F-16; both are still pretty “plane-shaped.”


Also on the tech side, my favorite part of The Mandolorian was actually seeing the TIE Fighter land... of course it makes perfect sense the radiator fins folded down and actual landing gear would be in the underside hatches.*


And while TLJ’s hyperspace ram was awful, the technical explanation of how ray shielding works (i.e. why capital ships have to slug it out at close range because at greater distances their shields basically make them invulnerable to weapon fire and why starfighters are needed since they can fly right through the ray shields to deal damage to weapons and ray shield generators) was lore gold.


* TIE Fighters get a very bum rap and most of it can be laid at the feet of WEG; who were the sources of the TIEs have no shields, ejection seats, landing gear or even life support and the “wings” are solar panels and those got carried over into the EU by way of Zahn using RPG material to flesh out his Trilogy that basically put the EU on the map in the early 90s.


The actual TIE Fighters had shields (you can see “shield flashes” around TIEs during ANH), ejection seats (seen in a blink and you’ll miss it in ESB), landing gear and life support (The Mandolorian; the pilots in the OT have full helmets for the same reason OUR pilots wear oxygen masks while flying despite having pressurized cabins... redundancy).


The ONLY things they lacked relative to X-Wings were hyperdrives and torpedoes; neither of which are particularly useful for anti-starfighter interceptors... but then the Empire has the resources to produce dedicated weapon platforms like interceptors and bombers and long range strike fighters like Vader’s while the Rebels put their limited resources into hit-and-fade multi-role starfighters.


I have a great deal of respect for the gearheads behind the tech that’s showed up in the live action material. It’s not their fault Kathleen Kennedy had woke blinders on and put their stuff into crap stories.


In a fit of obsessive nerddom, I did a count of starfighter kills in the trench run, since it's the clearest starfighter engagement with numbers of ships called out.
I don't remember the exact count, but I believe the TIES were winning in ship to ship kills or at least tied, when Vader came along and blew the kill count out of the water. ;)
I don't remember shield flashes for TIES, but I do think they weren't intended to be the tissue paper gun platforms as portrayed in the EU. The "shields" on the X-Wings didn't seem to help them much at all.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 09, 2020, 12:51:04 AM
The real problem of the re-used designs was the creative bankruptcy.


Which is again why I don't give a shit to see more.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 09, 2020, 08:19:32 AM
I could buy the idea that military hardware hadn't advanced much in 30 years, since the galaxy was supposed to be 'at peace'.


(Also, IIRC the X-wing was supposed to be a cutting-edge design that was stolen by the aerospace engineers making it. It wouldn't have lost much of its bite in a mere 30 years.)


No, as always, the problem with Nu-Wars is the terrible script and plot, which shows up like a day-glo dancing girl on the console of the Falcon. Abrams was bad, but I never got the feeling Abrams hated the series; he's always struck me as a fanboy who just didn't have the creative skill to do it right. 'Ruin' Johnson, on the other hand... Jesus.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on September 09, 2020, 10:36:44 AM
I don't remember the exact count, but I believe the TIES were winning in ship to ship kills or at least tied, when Vader came along and blew the kill count out of the water. ;)


I don't remember shield flashes for TIES, but I do think they weren't intended to be the tissue paper gun platforms as portrayed in the EU. The "shields" on the X-Wings didn't seem to help them much at all.
A lot of the X-Wing’s invulnerability in beta-canon comes from Luke Skywalker’s plot armor and the choice to have one other survivor who also happened to be in an X-Wing being translated into game form (first WEG, Then the rather legendary X-Wing game... which also added the idiocy that deflectors were regenerating ablative fields to the EU*).


In terms of shield flashes, they’re kinda blink and you miss it in general (they’re most notable around the Falcon during the ESB chase in general), but every time you see a blaster bolt “pop” around a ship that’s because the bolt struck the ship’s deflectors and there were a couple instances of that same effect around TIEs in ANH that indicate they have at least SOME deflectors.


Now, I agree with the point that TIEs are basically the starfighter equivalent of a Stormtrooper. However, it is also worth noting that, unless you had plot armor, the Stormtroopers were also devastatingly effective (see the boarding action of the Tantive-IV before Vader even stepped aboard; Obi-Wan’s line about their marksmanship was not intended to be taken as ironic).


It’s more that the heroes had the power of PLOT (i.e. the REAL Force) on their side that carried the day than that Stormtroopers and TIE-Fighters were some barely competent rubes with substandard gear.


* This is one of my biggest pet peeves. The deflectors in Star Wars are clearly shown to be more akin to a steady-state EM field that either causes a shot to glance off or fails to do so either due to the power or particular vector of the attack (and angling them relative to the attacker seems to improve their effectiveness). Similarly, deflectors are either “on” or “lost” in the films there was no “shields down to X%” anywhere because that’s not how they worked. Damage that got through the deflectors could bring them down the same way a shot that got through could take out an engine or weapon... but that’s not the same thing as being ablative.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: David Johansen on September 09, 2020, 02:56:34 PM
X-Wing was fantastic but so was the sequel Tie Fighter.  And yeah, you've got no shields and two concussion missiles if you're lucky but you're fast and maneuverable like nothing else.  And X-Wing / Tie Fighter is all about maneuver.


As for ablative shields, they go away awfully fast when you get hit.


I don't think the technical details are as important as the writing but some consistency one way or another would be nice.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: HappyDaze on September 09, 2020, 07:04:33 PM
(Also, IIRC the X-wing was supposed to be a cutting-edge design that was stolen by the aerospace engineers making it. It wouldn't have lost much of its bite in a mere 30 years.)
I believe they threw that lore on the X-wing out with the EU.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: HappyDaze on September 09, 2020, 07:05:58 PM
A lot of the X-Wing’s invulnerability in beta-canon comes from Luke Skywalker’s plot armor and the choice to have one other survivor who also happened to be in an X-Wing being translated into game form (first WEG, Then the rather legendary X-Wing game... which also added the idiocy that deflectors were regenerating ablative fields to the EU*).
No, there was another...
No, not Wedge.
The guy in the Y-wing.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Lurkndog on September 10, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
I kind of like the idea that the TIE fighter doesn't have shields.

Firstly, if you're not the Millennium Falcon, shields in Star Wars don't tend to do much. Plenty of examples of ships getting one-shotted. They really are plot armor when you get right down to it.

Secondly, given that shields seem to offer partial protection at best, eliminating them and the hyperdrive in favor of speed and maneuverability sounds like a tradeoff that might be reasonable. It might give a good pilot enough of an edge to be worth it. It might also help to make the TIE more cost-effective.

Thirdly, it makes the ships and tactics more distinct from each other, which i think is good.

Lastly, it is totally in character for the Empire to use its troops and small vessels as disposable assets.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on September 10, 2020, 03:13:45 PM
Can't eliminate the shields entirely if you're a spacecraft that can move significant percentages of light speed... not unless you want to be shredded by interstellar debris.

My feeling is that while TIE's probably do have shields, they're the on the weaker side (possibly even as low as the bare minimum needed for safe spaceflight) because they are optimized for speed, but even weak shields will still sometimes throw a blaster bolt off course (particularly weaker ones).

The reason I like them having at least a few shields is because, as stated, they're mostly plot protection anyway and on the off chance you even need a protagonist to hop in a TIE Fighter, its nice to have something you can use to more easily justify a glancing blow that would allow you to up the tension without the binary of avoided everything and KABOOM!!!

I'll also be the first to admit that I'm in favor of less cartoonish villains so the idea that the Imperial military (whose budget is for all intents and purposes unlimited) actually knows what its doing in outfitting its pilots and soldiers with decent gear and a realistic approach to casualties (i.e. they're unavoidable in war, but if reasonable measures can reduce them then you employ them because "effectively unlimited in the macro-scale" or not... at the micro-level you've only got the troops and equipment you've got at the time the enemy makes contact) just makes for better bad guys and forces the heroes to be that much better.

Also, ironically, arguing against the notion that the Empire actually does treat its troops as disposable is the Stormtrooper. Cheap and disposable faceless minions don't need to be kitted out in full environmental body armor; you give them a face covering helmet, maybe a flak jacket if they're lucky, and coveralls. Not only that, the fact that the Empire goes to the expensive of kitting their Stormtroopers in said armor also implies that the armor isn't useless as it is often presented to be in beta-canon. It may not prevent a casualty, but it could be good enough to stop a fatality and with bacta tanks that means your veterans are back in the field in days or weeks instead of needing new ones trained up from scratch.

It also means that the heroes aren't just a little above average to be dealing with the Imperial Military. There's no skill or excellence required to club the minion equivalent of a baby seal (can't hit the broad side of a barn and die from the slightest injury per beta-canon).

So let the Imperials be really competent I say because that makes the heroes who oppose them shine all the brighter.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jhkim on September 13, 2020, 05:26:04 PM
Getting back to the topic of Disney, I wonder what people think about the boycott of the Mulan remake? It seems like it has gotten significant traction. On the one hand it seems liberally motivated. On the other hand, it is against the Chinese government, which is also unpopular here.

https://www.cnet.com/news/mulan-boycott-explained-why-some-fans-are-skipping-disneys-new-remake/

From my view, I dislike Disney as a corporation. I must grudgingly admit that they do produce many technically and even artistically good works, but I am appalled by the power they have particularly over kids - usually with a conformist message. I have liked a number of the MCU films and some other productions. I didn't like the Star Wars sequels, but I was lost to Star Wars already after the abominable prequel trilogy.

It seems to me that to the extent that they are woke, it is only because that's the latest conformist message. As a corporation, they will play to whatever they think sells the best.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 13, 2020, 05:51:33 PM
Getting back to the topic of Disney, I wonder what people think about the boycott of the Mulan remake? It seems like it has gotten significant traction. On the one hand it seems liberally motivated. On the other hand, it is against the Chinese government, which is also unpopular here.

https://www.cnet.com/news/mulan-boycott-explained-why-some-fans-are-skipping-disneys-new-remake/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/mulan-boycott-explained-why-some-fans-are-skipping-disneys-new-remake/)


I'm not so familiar with the situation in China. I've heard about the Ughyrs but it's all second or third hand reports of a country half a world away. Potentially it sounds like something I'd be against (China's treatment of a minority) but I don't know enough to have a strong opinion.


Quote
From my view, I dislike Disney as a corporation. I must grudgingly admit that they do produce many technically and even artistically good works, but I am appalled by the power they have particularly over kids - usually with a conformist message. I have liked a number of the MCU films and some other productions. I didn't like the Star Wars sequels, but I was lost to Star Wars already after the abominable prequel trilogy.

It seems to me that to the extent that they are woke, it is only because that's the latest conformist message. As a corporation, they will play to whatever they think sells the best.


The one remake I watched was Aladdin, and it just solidified my opinion that the live action movies maybe shouldn't be rote remakes of their animated films. I kept thinking "That's interesting, I wish they'd done a different take on Aladdin instead of copying the first one."


The few reactions I've read to Mulan make it sound like they took out all the effort and hardships the animated Mulan faced in order to make live action Mulan "stonk womxn" which sounds terrible, but I don't know first hand.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jhkim on September 15, 2020, 04:35:33 AM
Getting back to the topic of Disney, I wonder what people think about the boycott of the Mulan remake? It seems like it has gotten significant traction. On the one hand it seems liberally motivated. On the other hand, it is against the Chinese government, which is also unpopular here.

https://www.cnet.com/news/mulan-boycott-explained-why-some-fans-are-skipping-disneys-new-remake/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/mulan-boycott-explained-why-some-fans-are-skipping-disneys-new-remake/)
I'm not so familiar with the situation in China. I've heard about the Ughyrs but it's all second or third hand reports of a country half a world away. Potentially it sounds like something I'd be against (China's treatment of a minority) but I don't know enough to have a strong opinion.
Well, there's also the Chinese government's actions in Hong Kong, which is more familiar to many people in the U.S. since Hong Kong has had close U.S. relations in the past. I know several people from Hong Kong, so that helps. The situation with the Uighurs is less familiar to most, but it is widely condemned. Those defending the Chinese government, like Russia and Saudi Arabia, seem like they are mostly profit-minded.

Quote
From my view, I dislike Disney as a corporation. I must grudgingly admit that they do produce many technically and even artistically good works, but I am appalled by the power they have particularly over kids - usually with a conformist message. I have liked a number of the MCU films and some other productions. I didn't like the Star Wars sequels, but I was lost to Star Wars already after the abominable prequel trilogy.

It seems to me that to the extent that they are woke, it is only because that's the latest conformist message. As a corporation, they will play to whatever they think sells the best.
The one remake I watched was Aladdin, and it just solidified my opinion that the live action movies maybe shouldn't be rote remakes of their animated films. I kept thinking "That's interesting, I wish they'd done a different take on Aladdin instead of copying the first one."

The few reactions I've read to Mulan make it sound like they took out all the effort and hardships the animated Mulan faced in order to make live action Mulan "stonk womxn" which sounds terrible, but I don't know first hand.

I saw The Jungle Book in the theaters with my son, and I saw Aladdin on a long plane flight. The Jungle Book was better than Aladdin, which I thought was terrible -- but both seem largely pointless. I agree, it seems very much that they are making these by rote rather than based on a clear new vision. As I see it, they're targeting parents who want to show their favorite movies from their own childhood to their Gen-Z kids, who tend to not like the old-style animation. That specific targeting is probably hamstringing any creativity in the production.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Chris24601 on September 15, 2020, 05:21:32 AM
The reason Disney has turned to churning out live action remakes and sequels to established properties is largely that it’s creative animation talent pool has largely abandoned it for greener pastures. They don’t create anymore... they buy established properties (Marvel, Star Wars, 20th Century Fox) and do remakes/hackneyed sequels.

A big part of it too is that they’ve been pushing hard for 3d animation and live action (with CGI) because the roles involved; “I’m the hair guy” or “I’m the water guy”; are easier to replace with H1B workers and nothing crushes creativity and motivation like watching your co-workers being made to train their low cost replacements before they’re fired.

Disney’s basically going into another Dark Age because they’ve gone complete soulless megacorp.

I’m starting to suspect that the rumors of Disney reversing course are just that and that they frankly lack the talent pool to significantly reverse course at this juncture even if they wanted to and that good productions like The Mandolorian will be more “in spite of” rather than “because of” Disney’s involvement.

The only good thing about Mulan is that it’s disaster of a performance (including, ironically, in China) may get them to stop butchering their classics with more live action remakes (other than those already in the pipeline).
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 15, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
As I see it, they're targeting parents who want to show their favorite movies from their own childhood to their Gen-Z kids, who tend to not like the old-style animation.


Well, that's a bit depressing.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: KingCheops on September 15, 2020, 10:11:39 AM
As I see it, they're targeting parents who want to show their favorite movies from their own childhood to their Gen-Z kids, who tend to not like the old-style animation.


Well, that's a bit depressing.


Also annecdotal I believe.  My girls (6 and 4) have had Robin Hood, Jungle Book (original), Lady and the Tramp (original), Dumbo (original), and Cinderella (original) on loop at various points over the past 3 years or so.  I do have to admit it was depressing as fuck writing out that list.


Disney Animation does still produce some good originals (Tangled and Frozen spring to mind).  Of course Pixar is some next level shit -- everyone on this board should watch Onward.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jhkim on September 15, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
As I see it, they're targeting parents who want to show their favorite movies from their own childhood to their Gen-Z kids, who tend to not like the old-style animation.
Well, that's a bit depressing.
Also annecdotal I believe.  My girls (6 and 4) have had Robin Hood, Jungle Book (original), Lady and the Tramp (original), Dumbo (original), and Cinderella (original) on loop at various points over the past 3 years or so.  I do have to admit it was depressing as fuck writing out that list.

Disney Animation does still produce some good originals (Tangled and Frozen spring to mind).  Of course Pixar is some next level shit -- everyone on this board should watch Onward.
The originals do fine on video. There, they are competing with other television, and they're much better than that - even by modern kids standards. However, I don't think I'm out of left field with suggesting the change in kid's tastes in the theaters. I dislike Disney, but I'm sure they do tons of market research.

Most of Disney's animated films had multiple theatrical re-releases for decades after their release, but that stopped in the early 2000s. I can't picture a theatrical re-release of a classic Disney animation being successful today. Even including computer animated movies, there are fewer and fewer successful 2D animated movies released theatrically by any studio. If a 2D classic-style animated movie could be successful, I'm sure they'd be trying it.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 15, 2020, 06:24:11 PM
There have been limited rereleases of Disney animated classics as 'special events' for the past few years, but they tend to get very little attention. I took my mother to Sleeping Beauty this past February (this was before Covid-19 hit), and we were practically the only people in the theatre.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 15, 2020, 06:24:51 PM
If a 2D classic-style animated movie could be successful, I'm sure they'd be trying it.
I think animation is unpopular in the west in the first place. People like CG because it lets them add fantasy crap and watch a video-game cut-scene for 3 hours but because they paid 20 million dollars for a 5 minute clip of the actors face grafted to their CGI duplicate its technically "Life action".
And if market research knew everything Disney would have never lost money on a movie. The answer is that market research can be largely misleading and/or self serving. Either telling the client BS in order to say how important you are in changing things. Or telling them everything they wanted to hear so they feel satisfied. Not saying this is always the case, but it happens.


But I also agree that 2D animation is both largely a lost art, and people in the west don't respect it for very very very very very very very very very very very very very very stupid reasons.
Im not bitter, why do you ask?  >:(
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Spinachcat on September 15, 2020, 07:01:50 PM
The sooner Disney collapses, the better for us all, but don't hold your breath. The amount of money being generated by streaming is monumental.

In the wake of Hollywood kowtowing to Burn Loot Murder, the future of "entertainment" is a deluge of politically correct woke cuckfests and there's plenty of idiots who will gobble down the nonsense. AKA, Mulan will do fine on Disney+...eventually.

But none of this lack of creativity is surprising. In an age of "sensitivity readers" and race-first casting and woke messaging, WTF do you expect? Creativity requires freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, aka, all the stuff the Left hates.

Combine that with Hollywood's panic about their bottom line, they just make what's safe, CFO approved, and then make sure everything is vetted by committee, and now doubled vetted by committees chosen by skin color and pants junk.

Whatever. More time for gaming.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2020, 07:56:11 PM
  I had no idea the china boycott was liberally motivated, any more than the people raising hell over cuties is conservative motivated.  Both are pretty much anyone just attempting to be a decent human.   The Chinese government treats those people as bad, or worse than the germans did ethnic undesirables during WW2.  The stories circulate from harvested organs, to breeding them out, to cutting off and selling human hair.   I have no idea who true any of those things are, but given China is essentially a center for ethnic fascism, who knows?  I am guessing they will pay off some more democrats and republicans and everyone will forget about it.  Again.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 15, 2020, 08:10:09 PM
  I had no idea the china boycott was liberally motivated, any more than the people raising hell over cuties is conservative motivated.  Both are pretty much anyone just attempting to be a decent human.   The Chinese government treats those people as bad, or worse than the germans did ethnic undesirables during WW2.  The stories circulate from harvested organs, to breeding them out, to cutting off and selling human hair.   I have no idea who true any of those things are, but given China is essentially a center for ethnic fascism, who knows?  I am guessing they will pay off some more democrats and republicans and everyone will forget about it.  Again.


I'm pretty sure someone could troll the "sides" to take up political positions on ice cream flavors at this point.
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Spinachcat on September 15, 2020, 10:02:14 PM
I'm pretty sure someone could troll the "sides" to take up political positions on ice cream flavors at this point.
Eating chocolate ice cream is obviously an act of racism and oppression, but anyone who orders vanilla ice cream is clearly a white supremacist. Asking for any other flavor is an act of the patriarchy whose silence equals violence.

BTW, I googled Ice Cream Racism and its a treasure trove of woke nonsense, but it's good to know you can trigger the human garbage by just playing the song from the ice cream truck.

Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 16, 2020, 04:08:52 PM
I'm pretty sure someone could troll the "sides" to take up political positions on ice cream flavors at this point.
Eating chocolate ice cream is obviously an act of racism and oppression, but anyone who orders vanilla ice cream is clearly a white supremacist. Asking for any other flavor is an act of the patriarchy whose silence equals violence.

BTW, I googled Ice Cream Racism and its a treasure trove of woke nonsense, but it's good to know you can trigger the human garbage by just playing the song from the ice cream truck.
That cheap Walmart brand, fat free raspberry, orange, lime sherbet that I got last week isn't looking so hot on this train of thought. :)
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: jeff37923 on September 16, 2020, 04:55:25 PM
I'm pretty sure someone could troll the "sides" to take up political positions on ice cream flavors at this point.
Eating chocolate ice cream is obviously an act of racism and oppression, but anyone who orders vanilla ice cream is clearly a white supremacist. Asking for any other flavor is an act of the patriarchy whose silence equals violence.

BTW, I googled Ice Cream Racism and its a treasure trove of woke nonsense, but it's good to know you can trigger the human garbage by just playing the song from the ice cream truck.


So what are you if you like Neopolitan or Marble Fudge ice cream?
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Spinachcat on September 16, 2020, 08:21:20 PM
So what are you if you like Neopolitan or Marble Fudge ice cream?
Alt-Right white supremacists trying dilute that proud black chocolate with your plain vanilla!
And the strawberry is Native Americans being forced to lose 2/3rds of their carton to your murderous vanilla colonizers and that chocolate you stole from Africa!



Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/52778001/i-shouldnt-have-done-that-i-should-not-have-done-that.jpg)
Title: Re: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 16, 2020, 11:36:05 PM
I waited tables for 5 years at a hamburger restaurant in a diverse section of Chicago, about half white and half black. Black people almost always ordered vanilla and strawberry shakes and white people chocolate.


Make of it what you will but I found it interesting.