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Author Topic: Disney Purging Star Wars, Marvel Woke Agenda  (Read 1816 times)

Trond

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« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2020, 09:24:43 AM »
I think there's a secondary source that may confirm the news (hopefully). Apparently Brie Larson has been upset about some recent decisions at Disney (according to my wife, who has been watching the Quartering and some others)

HappyDaze

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« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2020, 09:33:48 AM »
Quote from: jeff37923;1146863
Bitch all you like people, but the Rogue and Wraith squadron books were golden as was the Thrawn Trilogy.


I've re-read the original Thrawn trilogy recently and, while it's not as good as it seemed to me when I was right out of high school, it's far better than the new Thrawn trilogy which makes Thrawn out to be a total Marty Stu without any flaws (seriously, thered-eyed blue guy breezes through combats that take out his total slouch of a companion like a little bitch--that companion being Clone Wars-era Anakin Skywalker).

jeff37923

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« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2020, 01:53:00 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146872
Mediocrity? Not sure why thats worth being so excited about.


Damn, son! I'm sorry that you have forgotten how to be young at heart! Show me on the doll where old age touched you......

Ratman_tf

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« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2020, 02:41:42 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146872
Mediocrity? Not sure why thats worth being so excited about.


I really liked The Mandalorian. There seems to be a lot of people who do.
I get that some people weren't as into it, but I'd hardly call it mediocre.
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jeff37923

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« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2020, 03:20:27 PM »
To say that there is some shit in Star Wars, both the Legends EU material and the recent Canon material, is not wrong. The Good Stuff that Isn't Shit, is outstanding though. If it wasn't outstanding then why would so many people be Star Wars fans who both love the franchise and hate what Kathleen Kennedy has done to it?

Lurkndog

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« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2020, 03:49:23 PM »
Quote from: RandyB;1146841
Not my fantasy. Decanonizing the EU was the only thing Disney did right.


I generally agree. There were some good bits that could be salvaged, but I am much happier with them recycling the few good ideas, and leaving the rest in the dumpster with the Christmas Special.

As for ongoing stuff, I like The Mandalorian, I liked Rogue One, and I kinda liked Solo. I found The Clone Wars to be very uneven, but the good parts were quite good, and in general it redeemed the prequel era for me. I also really liked Star Wars Rebels, though the series finale kind of hit me out of left field.

Star Wars Resistance was mediocre kiddie fare. I didn't hate it, but I don't think there's much reason to watch it either.

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2020, 04:03:08 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;1146891
Damn, son! I'm sorry that you have forgotten how to be young at heart! Show me on the doll where old age touched you......
When I stopping valuing name brands and franchise factor alone. As for when I started valuing complete stories and not rehashes if the same stuff over and over....15?

Whatever you liked about the mandelorian is up in the air at the whims of soulless corporate suits. I cant get investeted if the next suit says baby yoda should die of a deathstick overdose after nuking orphans.

jeff37923

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« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2020, 04:10:23 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146908
When I stopping valuing name brands and franchise factor alone. As for when I started valuing complete stories and not rehashes if the same stuff over and over....15?

Whatever you liked about the mandelorian is up in the air at the whims of soulless corporate suits. I cant get investeted if the next suit says baby yoda should die of a deathstick overdose after nuking orphans.

Son, it is science fantasy! Nobody is asking you to be invested in it! What the Hell are you thinking, that if you like the show that means that you must have a commitment to it and you'll pay alimony if you ever get bored with it?

VisionStorm

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« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2020, 04:42:37 PM »
Baby Yoda aside (and only because people object to him, mainly on the basis that he's kind of a cutesey gimmicky character), The Mandalorian is the literally the BEST thing to come out of Star Wars since the Holy Trilogy. And I still totally despise the soulless evil corp that owns the franchise, but its true! My only issue with it is that it's so good that it could actually have the potential to keep the franchise alive and maybe eventually give Disney some sort of return on their investment, which I don't want (I want it to BURN!). But if I was gonna play a Star Wars RPG, it would be set around the Mandalorian timeline.

Chris24601

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« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2020, 04:48:37 PM »
Honestly, the way I'd salvage Star Wars is do a thousand year time jump and introduce an all new conflict with all new characters.

Establish that a dark age wiped out much of the past and what's left has been relegated to myth and legend with the story of the OT being the only one widely remembered (the stories of Luke, Han and Leia are basically like someone telling the story of King Arthur teaming up with Robin Hood and Maid Marian against King John and his dragon Mordred).

Then proceed to world-build from there with all new heroes and villains and enough stylistic similarity that you can believe the universe is connected to the OT (see the ships and tech in the SWTOR MMO for an example of how to evoke feelings of connection to classic Star Wars designs without being carbon copies... that said; stylistically similar but different designs were one of the few things the ST actually did well).

Personally, I'd go with a shattered galaxy where there is no galactic Empire or Republic, just small "feudal" realms spanning one to a dozen planets and countless smaller wars between them (so you don't need the endless succession of galactic conflicts that prevent characters from ever getting a happily ever after... just have a new smaller war break out elsewhere in the galaxy as needed).

Frankly, Star Wars has never been all thst great at making conflicts feel like they're truly galactic in scale (the Clone Wars series being the only one to really get close); a conflict between a half-dozen worlds that endangers billions of lives wouldn't feel that much different than one engulfing the supposed "thousand thousand worlds" of the Republic/Empire.

Similarly, there's no need for a singular monolithic organization of Force users. Establish multiple orders, some of them Jedi claiming true descent from pre-Empire Jedi, others clearly reconstructions originating from the discovery of lost Jedi artifacts or writings, still others based on some other understanding of the Force (ex. The Witches of Danthomir).

But those are just my thoughts based on the notion that Rise of "Skywalker" basically makes trying to build anything directly off the ST toxic, but that going forward is still better than say, going back to the Old Republic era, just because no matter how far back you go there's still "all this comes to naught and ends up at Rise of Skywalker" sitting in the back of your head.

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2020, 05:36:26 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;1146909
Son, it is science fantasy! Nobody is asking you to be invested in it! What the Hell are you thinking, that if you like the show that means that you must have a commitment to it and you'll pay alimony if you ever get bored with it?

I mean if I want to watch something to not be invested in I have walls of paint, the back of my hand, scratches in the cement. And those are free. I can look out the window and watch the birds buzzing about if I want something with the slightest bit of investment in it. And again thats free. Another tired story in tired locations whos every single detail and mystery has been immaculately overexplained over the past 30 years is just not anything I need in my life.

Scary as it might seem, I may be one of dem youths but I'm not so attention deprived and desperate for corporate CGI explosions every 25 seconds. I can read a science fiction/ fantasy book (THE HORROR) with the same sort of themes or ideas but fresher cheaper, longer, and for better quality. Heck even a 1940s pulp story would be good.

Quote from: Chris24601;1146913
Establish that a dark age wiped out much of the past and what's left has been relegated to myth and legend with the story of the OT being the only one widely remembered (the stories of Luke, Han and Leia are basically like someone telling the story of King Arthur teaming up with Robin Hood and Maid Marian against King John and his dragon Mordred).

No need for more grimdarkness but this is the closest sort of thing I would like. Keep it new and mysterious.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 05:38:47 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

KingCheops

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« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2020, 09:04:00 PM »
Quote from: Lurkndog;1146906
I generally agree. There were some good bits that could be salvaged, but I am much happier with them recycling the few good ideas, and leaving the rest in the dumpster with the Christmas Special.

As for ongoing stuff, I like The Mandalorian, I liked Rogue One, and I kinda liked Solo. I found The Clone Wars to be very uneven, but the good parts were quite good, and in general it redeemed the prequel era for me. I also really liked Star Wars Rebels, though the series finale kind of hit me out of left field.

Star Wars Resistance was mediocre kiddie fare. I didn't hate it, but I don't think there's much reason to watch it either.


I've got pretty much the same taste as you.  Thrawn isn't 100% the same as EU but they did good by him and kept most of the stuff that made him cool without being a rehash.  I think Wendig's books along with the Poe Dameron comics/Resistance cartoon was meant to be their entry into the Fighter Pilot portion of the EU but, apart from the Poe Dameron comics they f'ed it up pretty bad.

They actually have a butt ton of good political intrigue, spy, and war stuff they can cover between Endor/Mandalorian and the Bloodlines novel to be able to churn out great stuff for another 25 years before they finally get back to a good tentpole trilogy.

Chris24601

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« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2020, 11:15:39 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146918
No need for more grimdarkness but this is the closest sort of thing I would like. Keep it new and mysterious.
No more Grimdark than the High Middle Ages (and for that matter it turns out that, for the common man, the Dark Ages weren't that grimdark either, based on remains the average health and life expectancy of the common folk in Europe went UP when Rome fell; the only thing "dark" is the paucity of written records during the period... more that moderns are "in the dark" about the period than that the period itself was "dark").

But that's also the reason I suggested a thousand year jump... its so the collapse and subsequent dark age that makes everything before into legends could have occurred centuries before the current times (and centuries AFTER the OT so there's no "why didn't any of the characters we knew do something?" because even if they lived to old age they still died centuries before the dark age began).

I'd figure whatever Post-ST government lasts say, 200 years. Then it falls apart like Rome (so about AD 470-ish), you get about 500 years of Dark Ages (c. AD 500-1000) and then the present age is 300 years after that (c. AD 1300 in terms of the formation of new countries and general recovery).

Basically, instead of telling stories set in Space Rome (i.e. Ep I-XI period) with a single unified galaxy/continent spanning government... you're now telling stories set in Space Britain, France, Spain, Germany, etc. c. AD 1300.

My thinking too would be that the Jedi would be broken up into smaller factions so you'd have Jedi Templars, Jedi Hospitalers (and some that are basically the Knights of Columbus... i.e. a modern order that tries to model itself on the ideals of past knightly orders) so there's no "one true way" (sorry Mandalorian fans) and you could have the married Jedi of the EU in one order while another order says only celibate warrior monks can be members... whatever the story needs in terms of the setting's "magic system."

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2020, 11:34:23 PM »
Quote from: Chris24601;1146940
No more Grimdark than the High Middle Ages

Well your talking about something akin to the Foundation tier galactic collapse. Im not sure how that can't be seen as dark. Sometimes with the Star Wars EU I joke that "A Grim Time ago, in a Dark Galaxy away there is only war". Its a series that already suffers from a glut of unending galaxy spanning galactic warfare.
I find myself agreeing with you on everything else. Im just saying it doesn't need more centuries of Sith rule punctuated by brief periods where the Jedi eek out a temporary success.

The issue with Space Countries is that it kinda say that the best times....Are forever lost. No more space councils. Just warring states locked into eternal Civil war. With even the jedi descending into bickering impotent tribes incapable of making peace.

Im not sure the best way for a reset from toxicity is to imply and end the state of the galaxy in an even somehow even more toxic state then before.

Edit: I have a hot new idea: How about a new series with all the stuff you said in it, with no baggage from the past and the opportunities to have everything be dynamic and new again?
See what I mean about everybody locked into franchise mentality?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 11:36:24 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

VisionStorm

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« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2020, 02:11:01 AM »
There was only one direction they could've gone for a sequel that would've kept proper continuity for the franchise and would've made sense, and that was to do a 180 on the overriding theme of the original movies of rebels trying to bring down a corrupt government and making it instead about the heroes establishing the New Republic as a struggling young government and fighting to keep it together rather than tear it apart. They could've portrayed the New Republic as a fragile alliance between reluctant member worlds, skeptical of joining yet a new intergalactic order, while the heroes struggled to keep them on board as they battled the remnants of the Empire at edges of New Republic space.

There could've been Imperial fiefdoms all over the place keeping a tight leash over worlds still under Imperial control, and member worlds with corrupt governors trying to play both sides against each other to secure a better position for themselves. There could be wars for liberation and betrayals, new worlds coming into the fold and dissatisfied member worlds defecting to the Empire or breaking off on their own at the wrong time. Luke struggling to establish a new Jedi Order and provide guidance to young Force users, while trying to rediscover lost Jedi lore. Lots of political intrigue going on in the background as they struggle to establish a stable new government and thwart attempts from hidden Imperial Agents against the new Prime Minister's life, etc.

But they blew it and now that chance is gone. Resetting the entire franchise to some distant, barely connected era without establishing WTF happened after the heroes defeated the Empire and what direction the galaxy took afterwards would've made no sense. Same way that the crap they did in the actual movies made no sense, because it was all up in the air. It's like the originals never happened and nothing they did made a difference. Now they were fighting a new version of the Empire at some undefined point in the future, because...reasons. Setting it one thousand years in the future with some unrelated generation at an era where everything from the timeline of the originals was gone and little recognizable to tie it back, yet still calling it "Star Wars" instead of something else, would've been even more confusing.

There is no "saving" Star Wars and there's no salvaging it anymore. And there's no reason to try, cuz it's not like we ain't over saturated with entertainment. It ain't the 70s anymore. Sci-fi flicks with cool special effects are a dime a dozen these days and there could be much more--far too many franchises that haven't even been tried yet, to get stuck on one franchise that they already ruined. They fucked it up, good job. It's time to move on.