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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: GameDaddy on February 10, 2021, 11:33:41 PM

Title: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: GameDaddy on February 10, 2021, 11:33:41 PM
Reference
https://io9.gizmodo.com/gina-carano-is-no-longer-a-part-of-star-wars-1846244896?rev=1613010609026&fbclid=IwAR3-WTy7QwCXecNsyKkxILdcS8lf8XJXI-f_wM3wdtrUOieEUE74sJbNU28

They are douchebags anyway. They fired my friend Keith Barrett back in 2013-2014 and tried to force him to train his replacements some Indian dudes Disney had hired in using H1-B Visas. I have had a private boycott going on since then, now they are kowtowing to the politically correct left. Nothing good will come of that, and Star Wars is well and truly screwed now too as well. Cie la Vie.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: The Spaniard on February 22, 2021, 07:40:52 AM
Unfortunately not a surprise considering her wrongthink.  I made the mistake of seeing the first MarySue jedi movie.  The SJW garbage just makes it easier not to choose their brand.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 22, 2021, 08:13:22 AM
Frankly, Disney seems to be going out of their way to piss off anyone who's to the political right of Mao.

The worst you can say about Carano's tweet was that it was hyperbolic. It was hardly offensive. But the woketards have been after her ever since she refused to play the pronoun game.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: shuddemell on February 22, 2021, 08:47:28 AM
Though it actually looks like this is turning in her favor. Got a new film, backed by, of all people. Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire. Finally the worm is starting to turn on the woke....
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on February 22, 2021, 03:16:35 PM
Frankly, Disney seems to be going out of their way to piss off anyone who's to the political right of Mao.

The worst you can say about Carano's tweet was that it was hyperbolic. It was hardly offensive. But the woketards have been after her ever since she refused to play the pronoun game.

I don't follow Carano's tweets and have no opinion on her as a person. About Disney as a whole -- I agree that Disney has been leaning more to the left recently, but I don't believe in the slightest that it's genuine caring about the principle. Disney is a huge, long-standing corporation, and has proven to be a well-oiled machine to profit by manipulation. Somewhere in the company, it was determined that there was more profit in firing her than in keeping her.

In general, I find it dumb how people much attention people put into what celebrity actors say off the set. But, given that the public does pay attention and an actor's tweets can affect ticket sales, then the corporation is going to hire or fire based in part on Internet reputation.

Just for my own reference, I looked up what she said.

Quote
Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…. even by children.

Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?

Regardless of whether it's offensive, this is simply wrong. The Nazi government didn't create anti-semitism in Germany. It used the existing anti-semitism as an excuse to justify taking power. I also think it's stupid to use the horrendous actions of the Nazi political party to say that one shouldn't hate people for their political views.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 22, 2021, 04:55:53 PM
Frankly, Disney seems to be going out of their way to piss off anyone who's to the political right of Mao.

The worst you can say about Carano's tweet was that it was hyperbolic. It was hardly offensive. But the woketards have been after her ever since she refused to play the pronoun game.

I don't follow Carano's tweets and have no opinion on her as a person. About Disney as a whole -- I agree that Disney has been leaning more to the left recently, but I don't believe in the slightest that it's genuine caring about the principle. Disney is a huge, long-standing corporation, and has proven to be a well-oiled machine to profit by manipulation. Somewhere in the company, it was determined that there was more profit in firing her than in keeping her.

In general, I find it dumb how people much attention people put into what celebrity actors say off the set. But, given that the public does pay attention and an actor's tweets can affect ticket sales, then the corporation is going to hire or fire based in part on Internet reputation.

Just for my own reference, I looked up what she said.

Quote
Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…. even by children.

Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?

Regardless of whether it's offensive,

The point is the "offensiveness" was the justification for her firing. This is not a small detail.

Quote
this is simply wrong. The Nazi government didn't create anti-semitism in Germany. It used the existing anti-semitism as an excuse to justify taking power.

She didn't say the Nazi government created anti-semitism. The Nazis used an enourmous propoganda program to convince people that Jews were an existential threat. They convinced people that anti-semitism was justified.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda

Quote
I also think it's stupid to use the horrendous actions of the Nazi political party to say that one shouldn't hate people for their political views.

I think it's hypocritical that Pedro Pascal used Holocaust imagery, that remains on twitter, and Disney has yet to comment.

https://twitter.com/PedroPascal1/status/1009572721548595201

(the bonus stupidity is that the second picture is of Palestinian children, not America at all.)

But I don't agree that it's stupid. Everyone is capable of horrendous actions in reaction to a threat narrative. Putting Nazi germany and the Holocaust up on a historical pedestal prevents us from learning from it.



Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 22, 2021, 05:20:17 PM
PS scooped.

https://www.therpgsite.com/media-inspiration/gina-carano-fired-by-disney/
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on February 22, 2021, 06:00:01 PM
Fuck Disney.

May Jupiter, Juno, Mercury and Mars bless Gina Carano and subtly guide her in the good fight against the forces of despotism and moralism.

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Greywolf76 on February 23, 2021, 03:02:53 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: oggsmash on February 23, 2021, 03:15:03 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
 
  I dont know how much artistic pain he feels.  I do think he is probably scratching his head as to why the same company that was SO CAREFUL with marvel and its movies, let a lady take charge of Star wars who seems to not know how to do jack shit beyond get Stephen Spielberg coffee and promote here social justice bullshit.   Its a very, very, very expensive mistake for disney.  I guess the old saying too much easy success is part of the problem for people in long term success.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 23, 2021, 03:51:37 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
 
  I dont know how much artistic pain he feels.  I do think he is probably scratching his head as to why the same company that was SO CAREFUL with marvel and its movies, let a lady take charge of Star wars who seems to not know how to do jack shit beyond get Stephen Spielberg coffee and promote here social justice bullshit.   Its a very, very, very expensive mistake for disney.  I guess the old saying too much easy success is part of the problem for people in long term success.

Didn't Lucas pick Kennedy to run the franchise after the sale?
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: RandyB on February 23, 2021, 04:01:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
 
  I dont know how much artistic pain he feels.  I do think he is probably scratching his head as to why the same company that was SO CAREFUL with marvel and its movies, let a lady take charge of Star wars who seems to not know how to do jack shit beyond get Stephen Spielberg coffee and promote here social justice bullshit.   Its a very, very, very expensive mistake for disney.  I guess the old saying too much easy success is part of the problem for people in long term success.

IIRC, Lucas picked Kennedy as his successor before he sold to Disney. She came with the package.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Greywolf76 on February 23, 2021, 04:05:03 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
 
  I dont know how much artistic pain he feels.  I do think he is probably scratching his head as to why the same company that was SO CAREFUL with marvel and its movies, let a lady take charge of Star wars who seems to not know how to do jack shit beyond get Stephen Spielberg coffee and promote here social justice bullshit.   Its a very, very, very expensive mistake for disney.  I guess the old saying too much easy success is part of the problem for people in long term success.

If rumors are to be believed, and given his presence on the setting of the Mandalorian (and the reverence given by Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni to him) I believe he is disappointed, to say the least.

The strangest thing is that before selling Lucasfilm to Disney in October, 2012 he had made KK co-chair of Lucasfilm. That's why she was promoted to president after Disney bought the company. Now, why on Earth he chose her as his co-chair I guess we'll never know, since it's very obvious she is one of me most incompetent and hated persons in Hollywood today.

Marvel Studios, however, is a different kind of animal thanks to Kevin Feige's expertise and competence as Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Studios. And it's very clear that KK is no Feige. Quite the contrary.

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 23, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
 
  I dont know how much artistic pain he feels.  I do think he is probably scratching his head as to why the same company that was SO CAREFUL with marvel and its movies, let a lady take charge of Star wars who seems to not know how to do jack shit beyond get Stephen Spielberg coffee and promote here social justice bullshit.   Its a very, very, very expensive mistake for disney.  I guess the old saying too much easy success is part of the problem for people in long term success.

If rumors are to be believed, and given his presence on the setting of the Mandalorian (and the reverence given by Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni to him) I believe he is disappointed, to say the least.

The strangest thing is that before selling Lucasfilm to Disney in October, 2012 he had made KK co-chair of Lucasfilm. That's why she was promoted to president after Disney bought the company. Now, why on Earth he chose her as his co-chair I guess we'll never know, since it's very obvious she is one of me most incompetent and hated persons in Hollywood today.

Marvel Studios, however, is a different kind of animal thanks to Kevin Feige's expertise and competence as Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Studios. And it's very clear that KK is no Feige. Quite the contrary.

To make a guess, from what I've seen in interviews and articles, KK is competent enough to keep around, sign papers, hire actors, that kinda work, but putting in charge of Lucasfilm was way out of her capabilities. Plus she seems to be... let's put this nicely, not a very creative person. More of a middle manager type. Which is fine. Companies need middle managers.
Why Lucas chose her? I suspect he was tired of the fan backlash over the prequels, and just wanted out. KK was there, set up and ready to move into the spot, so he chose the first warm body, and not out of any creative merit.

Like a lot of middle management mentality, she wanted to justify her job and value, and so she latched onto the progressive "social justice" garbage. "The Force is Female" instead of actually telling good stories with the property, she's "empowering minorites" and other such bullshit.
[/speculation]
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: oggsmash on February 23, 2021, 06:57:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that George Lucas is thinking to himself... "Was it all worth it? What have I done?"

(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)
 
  I dont know how much artistic pain he feels.  I do think he is probably scratching his head as to why the same company that was SO CAREFUL with marvel and its movies, let a lady take charge of Star wars who seems to not know how to do jack shit beyond get Stephen Spielberg coffee and promote here social justice bullshit.   Its a very, very, very expensive mistake for disney.  I guess the old saying too much easy success is part of the problem for people in long term success.

If rumors are to be believed, and given his presence on the setting of the Mandalorian (and the reverence given by Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni to him) I believe he is disappointed, to say the least.

The strangest thing is that before selling Lucasfilm to Disney in October, 2012 he had made KK co-chair of Lucasfilm. That's why she was promoted to president after Disney bought the company. Now, why on Earth he chose her as his co-chair I guess we'll never know, since it's very obvious she is one of me most incompetent and hated persons in Hollywood today.

Marvel Studios, however, is a different kind of animal thanks to Kevin Feige's expertise and competence as Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Studios. And it's very clear that KK is no Feige. Quite the contrary.

To make a guess, from what I've seen in interviews and articles, KK is competent enough to keep around, sign papers, hire actors, that kinda work, but putting in charge of Lucasfilm was way out of her capabilities. Plus she seems to be... let's put this nicely, not a very creative person. More of a middle manager type. Which is fine. Companies need middle managers.
Why Lucas chose her? I suspect he was tired of the fan backlash over the prequels, and just wanted out. KK was there, set up and ready to move into the spot, so he chose the first warm body, and not out of any creative merit.

Like a lot of middle management mentality, she wanted to justify her job and value, and so she latched onto the progressive "social justice" garbage. "The Force is Female" instead of actually telling good stories with the property, she's "empowering minorites" and other such bullshit.
[/speculation]

 I guess she was good at fetching Lucas coffee as well.  Whether he picked her or not, its on Disney for keeping her there after she clearly demonstrated incompetence.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: oggsmash on February 23, 2021, 07:14:03 PM
Frankly, Disney seems to be going out of their way to piss off anyone who's to the political right of Mao.

The worst you can say about Carano's tweet was that it was hyperbolic. It was hardly offensive. But the woketards have been after her ever since she refused to play the pronoun game.

I don't follow Carano's tweets and have no opinion on her as a person. About Disney as a whole -- I agree that Disney has been leaning more to the left recently, but I don't believe in the slightest that it's genuine caring about the principle. Disney is a huge, long-standing corporation, and has proven to be a well-oiled machine to profit by manipulation. Somewhere in the company, it was determined that there was more profit in firing her than in keeping her.

In general, I find it dumb how people much attention people put into what celebrity actors say off the set. But, given that the public does pay attention and an actor's tweets can affect ticket sales, then the corporation is going to hire or fire based in part on Internet reputation.

Just for my own reference, I looked up what she said.

Quote
Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…. even by children.

Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?

Regardless of whether it's offensive, this is simply wrong. The Nazi government didn't create anti-semitism in Germany. It used the existing anti-semitism as an excuse to justify taking power. I also think it's stupid to use the horrendous actions of the Nazi political party to say that one shouldn't hate people for their political views.

  They miscalculated badly on that one.   Gina has a ton of thristy male fans who are also star wars fans who actually buy the product Disney is selling, as opposed to the very concerned people who are angry with her for not putting her pronouns in her twitter bio.  I would say the Nazis got away with their egregious actions against the Jews because not only was Germany anti semitic, seems the whole world was, so a whole bunch of shoulders got shrugged.  Leftists in germany did a whole lot to help get a rile going, and as jewish people seemed to have aligned largely with the left there and were the very vocal and very aggressive enemies of hitler; he decided they were is enemies in Jail, and one thing Hitler was good at, was crossing enemies off of a list.  But he had to do lots and lots of propaganda to get people to go along with "work camps" and train rides.  It does look a bit like diversity training where white people get a chance to learn how to "be less white" and I could see how a person could draw a vague parallel.   It is vague though.  Jews were a tiny minority, and the rabid leftists with the weird anti white vibe they are pushing might get a chance to find out their "enemies" are not in fact a tiny minority.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 24, 2021, 04:13:03 AM
A sample of the woke harassment Giana Carano endured when she wouldn't bend the knee.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh2SL4CUcAEG7mJ?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Brad on February 24, 2021, 06:50:42 AM
A sample of the woke harassment Giana Carano endured when she wouldn't bend the knee.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh2SL4CUcAEG7mJ?format=jpg&name=large)

I wish I could get that level of hatred on Twitter for merely posting a fairly innocuous opinion.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on February 24, 2021, 10:59:27 AM
Creatively it seems pretty clear to me that Filoni was the heir.  Lucas might have meant Kennedy to handle the business side of things to keep him free to be creative.  However, toss Kennedy into the also woke Disney and suddenly her stupid politics are being green lit -- especially given that Filoni hasn't done anything bigger than Clone Wars at the point Kennedy is producing the Sequel Trilogy.

If they're smart, and Favreau is willing to do it, just turn the whole thing over to Favreau and Filoni.  Filoni can apprentice under one of the better pop culture director/producers and get the missing pieces.  In the meantime Favreau does for Star Wars what he did for Marvel.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Trond on February 24, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
A sample of the woke harassment Giana Carano endured when she wouldn't bend the knee.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh2SL4CUcAEG7mJ?format=jpg&name=large)

"Bitch" seems to be the word of the day. But what the hell is up with "oompa loompa"? Was she in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Greywolf76 on February 24, 2021, 11:36:33 AM
A sample of the woke harassment Giana Carano endured when she wouldn't bend the knee.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh2SL4CUcAEG7mJ?format=jpg&name=large)

"Bitch" seems to be the word of the day. But what the hell is up with "oompa loompa"? Was she in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?

No, it's just another way of calling her "fat" (which she isn't - I think Ms. Carano is very hot.;) ). Another example of woketard hypocrisy, the same folks that promote "body confidence", "morbid obesity is beautiful", and "all bodies are beautiful" are resorting to "body-shaming" against a conservative, strong, independent and beautiful woman.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Greywolf76 on February 24, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
Double post. Sorry.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Brad on February 24, 2021, 11:55:46 AM
No, it's just another way of calling her "fat" (which she isn't - I think Ms. Carano is very hot.;) ). Another example of woketard hypocrisy, the same folks that promote "body confidence", "morbid obesity is beautiful", and "all bodies are beautiful" are resorting to "body-shaming" against a conservative, strong, independent and beautiful woman.

Imagine calling an off-season athlete fat...while you probably can't even do one curl unless it's a doughnut to your face. I mean, yeah, she probably needs to drop 15 pounds, but I still wouldn't want to fight her.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on February 24, 2021, 01:25:50 PM
Twitter trolls suck. I think that's pretty self-evident.

Regarding Kathleen Kennedy,

Creatively it seems pretty clear to me that Filoni was the heir.  Lucas might have meant Kennedy to handle the business side of things to keep him free to be creative.  However, toss Kennedy into the also woke Disney and suddenly her stupid politics are being green lit -- especially given that Filoni hasn't done anything bigger than Clone Wars at the point Kennedy is producing the Sequel Trilogy.

If they're smart, and Favreau is willing to do it, just turn the whole thing over to Favreau and Filoni.  Filoni can apprentice under one of the better pop culture director/producers and get the missing pieces.  In the meantime Favreau does for Star Wars what he did for Marvel.

Personally, I didn't care for either the prequel trilogy or the sequel trilogy. After the original trilogy, my favorite Star Wars material so far has been Rogue One and The Mandalorian -- both of which were produced under Kennedy. That's not a great hit rate -- but it's a better hit rate compared to the period before Kennedy from 1984 to 2012, when there was nothing produced for Star Wars that I liked.

Financially, it seems to me that she has been overseeing a big increase in production and profits for the franchise. Compared to the period of 1984 to 2012, it seems like there has been a major step up in production of mostly-profitable new Star Wars films as well as television series and other material. While Feige had greater success with the MCU - that was unprecedented. Prior to the MCU, Feige produced the Daredevil, Elektra, the Hulk, and the Fantastic Four movies - which were both critical and financial failures. Lots of other popular franchises have had much less financial success than Star Wars over the last decade.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 24, 2021, 02:03:47 PM
Twitter trolls suck. I think that's pretty self-evident.

Regarding Kathleen Kennedy,

Creatively it seems pretty clear to me that Filoni was the heir.  Lucas might have meant Kennedy to handle the business side of things to keep him free to be creative.  However, toss Kennedy into the also woke Disney and suddenly her stupid politics are being green lit -- especially given that Filoni hasn't done anything bigger than Clone Wars at the point Kennedy is producing the Sequel Trilogy.

If they're smart, and Favreau is willing to do it, just turn the whole thing over to Favreau and Filoni.  Filoni can apprentice under one of the better pop culture director/producers and get the missing pieces.  In the meantime Favreau does for Star Wars what he did for Marvel.

Personally, I didn't care for either the prequel trilogy or the sequel trilogy. After the original trilogy, my favorite Star Wars material so far has been Rogue One and The Mandalorian -- both of which were produced under Kennedy. That's not a great hit rate -- but it's a better hit rate compared to the period before Kennedy from 1984 to 2012, when there was nothing produced for Star Wars that I liked.

I liked Solo and Rogue One well enough. I did not like the sequel trilogy to the point where I have not and do not plan to watch Rise of Skywalker.
The Prequels have been beaten to death, ressurected and beaten down some more. Suffice to say, I liked the idea of the prequels, but the execution was not so hot.

Quote
Financially, it seems to me that she has been overseeing a big increase in production and profits for the franchise. Compared to the period of 1984 to 2012, it seems like there has been a major step up in production of mostly-profitable new Star Wars films as well as television series and other material. While Feige had greater success with the MCU - that was unprecedented. Prior to the MCU, Feige produced the Daredevil, Elektra, the Hulk, and the Fantastic Four movies - which were both critical and financial failures. Lots of other popular franchises have had much less financial success than Star Wars over the last decade.

The Michael Bay Transformers series was wildly profitable. I thought they stunk to high heaven and stopped watching them at #3. And the only reason I slogged through to 3 is because I'm a rabid Transformers fan and hoped beyond hope that the series would stop sucking. (I really liked Bumblebee, but the bar was so low by then anything was better than Bayformers nonsense)

I think the success of The Mandalorian was owed in large part to Jon Favreau, and Disney/Lucasfilm/Kennedy are in the process of shooting themselves in the foot over it's success.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Greywolf76 on February 24, 2021, 02:39:57 PM
KK, despite being credited as executive producer on The Mandalorian had absolutely nothing to do with the show.

Favreau and Filoni have complete creative control and answer directly to Disney's CEO Bob Iger (just like Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios are no longer part of Marvel Entertainment since 2015 - Feige answered directly to Alan Horn, head of Disney Studios and not to Marvel Entertainment's CEO Ike Perlmutter). They don't answer to her and don't give a shit about her woketard "story group" (including resident soy-boy Pablo Hidalgo).

This is why they brought back and redeemed "you-know-who" at the end of Mando's season 2.

Also, Rogue One was good despite KK. Almost 40% of the movie needed to be completely redone and reshot. Tony Gilroy was brought in to direct the reshoots and rework entire aspects of the film. The reshoots delayed the film completion from February, 2016 to November, 2016.

And don't forget she is directly responsible for all the ensuing mess: Phil Lord and Christopher Miller fired mid-production of "Solo"; "Ruin" Johnson disregarding Jar Jar Abrams' original storyline and having carte blanche to do whatever shit he wanted to; Colin Trevorrow giving up directing and writing Episode IX in frustration because he strongly disagreed with all the shit "Ruin" Johnson pulled out from his ass (after Carrie Fisher passed away, Trevorrow insisted in using Luke instead of Leia, but KK said "no"); hiring with all fanfare - and then firing - Dumb & Dumber (David Benioff & D.B. Weiss). The list goes on and on.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Mistwell on February 24, 2021, 10:39:36 PM
Mandalorian is a GREAT show, and nothing like the new movies. If you let this get in the way of enjoying the show, you're just hurting yourself.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 25, 2021, 12:42:14 AM
Mandalorian is a GREAT show, and nothing like the new movies. If you let this get in the way of enjoying the show, you're just hurting yourself.

For however long it lasts. I expect it will either be woke-ified or Kennedy will sabotage it. Not that there's much difference between the two.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: wmarshal on February 25, 2021, 09:38:45 AM
I’m neither a fan or a hater of the character Gina played in the Madalorian, but it seems mighty sexist to fire her for overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust when Pedro Pascal also made overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust.

However, despite not being a follower of Gina I doubt I’ll keep Disney+ around, as it’s almost guaranteed that the Mandolorian is now going to be managed through a partisan/hyper-ideological political lense. Star Wars for me will only be the original trilogy, Rogue One and the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. Sometimes you have to realize that an IP has for all practical purposes “run out of gas”, and continued patronage just encourages the owners of the IP to continue to churn out trash. I’ve done the same with Star Trek (couldn’t make it past mid-season of Discovery, foolishly gave Picard a chance and thoroughly disappointed with the season 1 ending), and the butchery Disney is considering with a Firefly reboot (Inara going to be some kind of instructor/social worker instead of a courtier) convinces me that it’s better to realize early on when an IP has soured and move on to something else. Marvel Universe overall (some movies were always going to be not great, I’m talking about the whole setting) is probably reaching a similar point. I think the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie is the only one I’m looking forward to, and they’ll probably fire Chris Pratt before too long.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 25, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
I’m neither a fan or a hater of the character Gina played in the Madalorian, but it seems mighty sexist to fire her for overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust when Pedro Pascal also made overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust.

However, despite not being a follower of Gina I doubt I’ll keep Disney+ around, as it’s almost guaranteed that the Mandolorian is now going to be managed through a partisan/hyper-ideological political lense. Star Wars for me will only be the original trilogy, Rogue One and the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. Sometimes you have to realize that an IP has for all practical purposes “run out of gas”, and continued patronage just encourages the owners of the IP to continue to churn out trash. I’ve done the same with Star Trek (couldn’t make it past mid-season of Discovery, foolishly gave Picard a chance and thoroughly disappointed with the season 1 ending), and the butchery Disney is considering with a Firefly reboot (Inara going to be some kind of instructor/social worker instead of a courtier) convinces me that it’s better to realize early on when an IP has soured and move on to something else. Marvel Universe overall (some movies were always going to be not great, I’m talking about the whole setting) is probably reaching a similar point. I think the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie is the only one I’m looking forward to, and they’ll probably fire Chris Pratt before too long.
Their violence is speech, our speech is violence.

In other words, they can act out to the point where buildings burn and people die and it's 'protected', but if we utter any words against it, we are 'literally murdering' them.

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 25, 2021, 01:22:25 PM
I’m neither a fan or a hater of the character Gina played in the Madalorian, but it seems mighty sexist to fire her for overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust when Pedro Pascal also made overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust.

However, despite not being a follower of Gina I doubt I’ll keep Disney+ around, as it’s almost guaranteed that the Mandolorian is now going to be managed through a partisan/hyper-ideological political lense. Star Wars for me will only be the original trilogy, Rogue One and the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. Sometimes you have to realize that an IP has for all practical purposes “run out of gas”, and continued patronage just encourages the owners of the IP to continue to churn out trash. I’ve done the same with Star Trek (couldn’t make it past mid-season of Discovery, foolishly gave Picard a chance and thoroughly disappointed with the season 1 ending), and the butchery Disney is considering with a Firefly reboot (Inara going to be some kind of instructor/social worker instead of a courtier) convinces me that it’s better to realize early on when an IP has soured and move on to something else. Marvel Universe overall (some movies were always going to be not great, I’m talking about the whole setting) is probably reaching a similar point. I think the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie is the only one I’m looking forward to, and they’ll probably fire Chris Pratt before too long.

There's a lot of series I liked in the beginning ,but went off the rails after about 2-3 seasons. House MD and the Battlestar Galactica remake off the top of my head for a couple of examples.
They don't go awful right away, but you can tell they've used up the original premise and are spinning their wheels.
I hit saturation with the MCU around the time of Ant Man. (Which I liked) Everything after that I was like 'meh, whatever'.

I think the two seasons of The Mandalorian are a good place to mentally end the series. They resolved The Child storyline, and it makes a coherent story.
I have to wonder if that was intentional...
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 25, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
There have been a couple series I watched where the writers' strikes just completely wrecked the plots and scripts and they never really recovered from it.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on February 25, 2021, 03:41:39 PM
I doubt I’ll keep Disney+ around, as it’s almost guaranteed that the Mandolorian is now going to be managed through a partisan/hyper-ideological political lense. Star Wars for me will only be the original trilogy, Rogue One and the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. Sometimes you have to realize that an IP has for all practical purposes “run out of gas”, and continued patronage just encourages the owners of the IP to continue to churn out trash. I’ve done the same with Star Trek (couldn’t make it past mid-season of Discovery, foolishly gave Picard a chance and thoroughly disappointed with the season 1 ending)

With Star Wars, I also feel that the originals, Rogue One, and the Mandalorian are the only parts I really like. But those are spaced out really far apart (1977, 1980, 1983, 2016, and 2020) -- with a lot of releases in between. I'd call that a "low hit rate" rather than "running out of gas".

I will sometimes watch things just to see what other people are interested in (especially since I run Star Wars games, say) - but I think loyalty to a brand/IP is giving corporations too much credit.


There's a lot of series I liked in the beginning ,but went off the rails after about 2-3 seasons. House MD and the Battlestar Galactica remake off the top of my head for a couple of examples.
They don't go awful right away, but you can tell they've used up the original premise and are spinning their wheels.
I hit saturation with the MCU around the time of Ant Man. (Which I liked) Everything after that I was like 'meh, whatever'.

There are series like that for me - but there are also some series that start out rough before getting into their groove. For example, Star Trek: The Next Generation started out *terrible* in my opinion, but by Season Three it had some of the best episodes in the canon.

I felt that way about the MCU, actually. I didn't like much of the first phase like Hulk and Thor. I liked the original Avengers and Guardians, but I thought it got better after Ant-Man. I hated Infinity War -- but I loved both Spider-Man films, Black Panther and Doctor Strange. I liked Ant-Man and the Wasp better than the original (though I liked the original).

I felt like especially after Guardians and Ant-Man, they got into the groove of having films be styled differently instead of just generic special-effects action movie. Doctor Strange had a cool mystic feel, and Spider-Man felt more like a teenager coming-of-age movies, etc. Civil War and especially Infinity War were more generic and boring, but at least Endgame recovered some.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Pat on February 25, 2021, 05:07:19 PM
With Star Wars, I also feel that the originals, Rogue One, and the Mandalorian are the only parts I really like. But those are spaced out really far apart (1977, 1980, 1983, 2016, and 2020) -- with a lot of releases in between. I'd call that a "low hit rate" rather than "running out of gas".
Have you seen the animated series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008)? It's worth a watch.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: HappyDaze on February 25, 2021, 05:26:01 PM
With Star Wars, I also feel that the originals, Rogue One, and the Mandalorian are the only parts I really like. But those are spaced out really far apart (1977, 1980, 1983, 2016, and 2020) -- with a lot of releases in between. I'd call that a "low hit rate" rather than "running out of gas".
Have you seen the animated series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008)? It's worth a watch.
Like anything with that many seasons & episodes, it had quite a mix of quality with some terrible stuff in there too. However, of the five SW animated series, it's certainly the best.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on February 25, 2021, 08:55:37 PM
There have been a couple series I watched where the writers' strikes just completely wrecked the plots and scripts and they never really recovered from it.

Lost, BSG are the big ones for me as a result of that.

How I Met Your Mother was another one where the mediocrity of the later seasons took a while for me to clue onto.

Also, buckle up Star Wars fans, the trans-fascists are coming for Rosario Dawson now.  I say we ship these a-holes to China and let them deal with them.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on February 25, 2021, 09:57:42 PM
With Star Wars, I also feel that the originals, Rogue One, and the Mandalorian are the only parts I really like. But those are spaced out really far apart (1977, 1980, 1983, 2016, and 2020) -- with a lot of releases in between. I'd call that a "low hit rate" rather than "running out of gas".
Have you seen the animated series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008)? It's worth a watch.
Like anything with that many seasons & episodes, it had quite a mix of quality with some terrible stuff in there too. However, of the five SW animated series, it's certainly the best.

I watched a little of The Clone Wars, but didn't care for it.

1) In general, I find I'm less inclined to like animated series than some others.
2) It depends on characters and setting from the prequels, which I strongly disliked.
3) As with the prequels, much of larger plot is a foregone conclusion - which made it hard to care about the storyline.
4) The art, action and direction didn't really grab me, seeming wooden, which I realize is because of computer animation technology, but doesn't make me like it.

The biggest, though, is the whole premise of the clones. This was one of the most senseless plot twists in the prequels -- where the Jedi are gifted a slave army from an unknown source, and the Jedi simply accept and use this slave army. The Clone Wars series tries to slightly address the issue of clones at times -- by making different clones to be individuals, and delving into their character and motivations. However, to me, some of that just highlights how the whole situation is senseless.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 25, 2021, 10:48:03 PM

The biggest, though, is the whole premise of the clones. This was one of the most senseless plot twists in the prequels -- where the Jedi are gifted a slave army from an unknown source, and the Jedi simply accept and use this slave army. The Clone Wars series tries to slightly address the issue of clones at times -- by making different clones to be individuals, and delving into their character and motivations. However, to me, some of that just highlights how the whole situation is senseless.

But it wasn't unknown. It was comissioned for the Republic by Master Sifo Diyas, created on Kamino, and then confirmed by Chancellor Palpaine when the Seperatists started open hostilites on Geonosis.

It's kinda hard to turn down a slave army when you have a million Battle Droids breathing down your neck. The Republic can sort all that stuff out later when the crisis is over. (tongue firmly in cheek on that last one)

Another example of something I didn't have a problem with in concept, more that Lucas did a poor job of telling an ambitious story, reminicent of something like Dune or Foundation, in that he was setting up some galaxy spanning events, and the dude just didn't have the chops he used to. (If he ever had, that's another argument)

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Jame Rowe on February 25, 2021, 11:14:13 PM
I’m neither a fan or a hater of the character Gina played in the Madalorian, but it seems mighty sexist to fire her for overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust when Pedro Pascal also made overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust.

However, despite not being a follower of Gina I doubt I’ll keep Disney+ around, as it’s almost guaranteed that the Mandolorian is now going to be managed through a partisan/hyper-ideological political lense. Star Wars for me will only be the original trilogy, Rogue One and the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. Sometimes you have to realize that an IP has for all practical purposes “run out of gas”, and continued patronage just encourages the owners of the IP to continue to churn out trash. I’ve done the same with Star Trek (couldn’t make it past mid-season of Discovery, foolishly gave Picard a chance and thoroughly disappointed with the season 1 ending), and the butchery Disney is considering with a Firefly reboot (Inara going to be some kind of instructor/social worker instead of a courtier) convinces me that it’s better to realize early on when an IP has soured and move on to something else. Marvel Universe overall (some movies were always going to be not great, I’m talking about the whole setting) is probably reaching a similar point. I think the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie is the only one I’m looking forward to, and they’ll probably fire Chris Pratt before too long.
Their violence is speech, our speech is violence.

In other words, they can act out to the point where buildings burn and people die and it's 'protected', but if we utter any words against it, we are 'literally murdering' them.

I have Jewish relatives, so I'm wary of anyone who compares the situation to the Holocaust.
Despite her having a point of the double standard that speech is developing in this country.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 26, 2021, 12:39:56 AM
I have Jewish relatives, so I'm wary of anyone who compares the situation to the Holocaust.
And I actually am Jewish, and I don't give a damn. It was no dumber than her co-star Pedro Pascal comparing Republicans to Nazis a couple of years ago - he posted an image of children in concentration camp along with image of children supposedly in ICE detention, in fact they were Palestinian children at a soup kitchen in Hebron.

There's a reason we have Godwin's Law: overwrought Nazi comparisons are just part of being on the internet.

I don't care, at least it makes her free to do projects I'm more interested in. 
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: oggsmash on February 27, 2021, 11:49:18 AM
I’m neither a fan or a hater of the character Gina played in the Madalorian, but it seems mighty sexist to fire her for overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust when Pedro Pascal also made overwrought comparisons to the Holocaust.

However, despite not being a follower of Gina I doubt I’ll keep Disney+ around, as it’s almost guaranteed that the Mandolorian is now going to be managed through a partisan/hyper-ideological political lense. Star Wars for me will only be the original trilogy, Rogue One and the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. Sometimes you have to realize that an IP has for all practical purposes “run out of gas”, and continued patronage just encourages the owners of the IP to continue to churn out trash. I’ve done the same with Star Trek (couldn’t make it past mid-season of Discovery, foolishly gave Picard a chance and thoroughly disappointed with the season 1 ending), and the butchery Disney is considering with a Firefly reboot (Inara going to be some kind of instructor/social worker instead of a courtier) convinces me that it’s better to realize early on when an IP has soured and move on to something else. Marvel Universe overall (some movies were always going to be not great, I’m talking about the whole setting) is probably reaching a similar point. I think the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie is the only one I’m looking forward to, and they’ll probably fire Chris Pratt before too long.

  Well the thing is they didnt fire her for that post.  It was just one they felt they could make a bridge to something normies might accept.  She was fired a long time ago, she has just been waiting for a good long while for the shoe to drop.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: wmarshal on February 27, 2021, 12:18:10 PM
  Well the thing is they didnt fire her for that post.  It was just one they felt they could make a bridge to something normies might accept.  She was fired a long time ago, she has just been waiting for a good long while for the shoe to drop.
I’ve not heard that she was fired before that post. If Disney was hoping that waiting announce her firing until  she made a controversial post was a smart strategy I think they made a mistake, particularly since Pedro made similar hyperbolic Holocaust comparisons. Such a strategy essentially turns the initiative of the messaging to the fired employee, and Disney wound up so eager to try to retake the initiative that they wound up choosing poorly in latching on to that post.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: oggsmash on February 27, 2021, 12:27:17 PM
  Well the thing is they didnt fire her for that post.  It was just one they felt they could make a bridge to something normies might accept.  She was fired a long time ago, she has just been waiting for a good long while for the shoe to drop.
I’ve not heard that she was fired before that post. If Disney was hoping that waiting announce her firing until  she made a controversial post was a smart strategy I think they made a mistake, particularly since Pedro made similar hyperbolic Holocaust comparisons. Such a strategy essentially turns the initiative of the messaging to the fired employee, and Disney wound up so eager to try to retake the initiative that they wound up choosing poorly in latching on to that post.
  She knew she was on the outs back when she did the "Be Bop Boop" and her posting pattern and joining....*gasp* parler showed me she already knew she was done.  They have had numerous behind the scenes meeting and hell raising the past 6 months over her.   *edited to add*  I also think she kept posting knowing one was going to get her fired.  I think the smart strategy was on her part, not theirs.  I think she wanted out. 
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: wmarshal on February 27, 2021, 04:10:53 PM
  Well the thing is they didnt fire her for that post.  It was just one they felt they could make a bridge to something normies might accept.  She was fired a long time ago, she has just been waiting for a good long while for the shoe to drop.
I’ve not heard that she was fired before that post. If Disney was hoping that waiting announce her firing until  she made a controversial post was a smart strategy I think they made a mistake, particularly since Pedro made similar hyperbolic Holocaust comparisons. Such a strategy essentially turns the initiative of the messaging to the fired employee, and Disney wound up so eager to try to retake the initiative that they wound up choosing poorly in latching on to that post.
  She knew she was on the outs back when she did the "Be Bop Boop" and her posting pattern and joining....*gasp* parler showed me she already knew she was done.  They have had numerous behind the scenes meeting and hell raising the past 6 months over her.   *edited to add*  I also think she kept posting knowing one was going to get her fired.  I think the smart strategy was on her part, not theirs.  I think she wanted out.
That makes sense. She is a trained fighter, so her developing a strategy to work to her advantage over Disney shouldn’t be surprising, but Disney (and myself to be honest) thought of her more as an actress. It was just in the PR ring instead of the fighting ring.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: oggsmash on February 28, 2021, 12:14:29 AM
  Well the thing is they didnt fire her for that post.  It was just one they felt they could make a bridge to something normies might accept.  She was fired a long time ago, she has just been waiting for a good long while for the shoe to drop.
I’ve not heard that she was fired before that post. If Disney was hoping that waiting announce her firing until  she made a controversial post was a smart strategy I think they made a mistake, particularly since Pedro made similar hyperbolic Holocaust comparisons. Such a strategy essentially turns the initiative of the messaging to the fired employee, and Disney wound up so eager to try to retake the initiative that they wound up choosing poorly in latching on to that post.
  She knew she was on the outs back when she did the "Be Bop Boop" and her posting pattern and joining....*gasp* parler showed me she already knew she was done.  They have had numerous behind the scenes meeting and hell raising the past 6 months over her.   *edited to add*  I also think she kept posting knowing one was going to get her fired.  I think the smart strategy was on her part, not theirs.  I think she wanted out.
That makes sense. She is a trained fighter, so her developing a strategy to work to her advantage over Disney shouldn’t be surprising, but Disney (and myself to be honest) thought of her more as an actress. It was just in the PR ring instead of the fighting ring.

  I also think Disney is more used to dealing with actors who need acting.  She does not need it.  At all.  So she is not going to take shit for something she doesnt need in a place that goes a bit far in control attempts.  She is rich already, and Though not LOADED, I suspect her family wealth makes any money she has earned 100 percent in the bank, its not as if she has a lifestyle to maintain like alot of actors do, where their 800k a year goes towards paying for a 1 million dollar a year lifestyle.

   I also think you are right Disney looked at her as an actor, which in all honesty most former fighters are going to be at least as desperate as actors, her family is super wealthy, and she has always had a good base of advice from her family to guide her in the murky waters of both fighting and acting.  I always think of her as a fighter interestingly enough, because that is the only context I register her in, since I started watching her before her first professional MMA fight.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on February 28, 2021, 10:35:41 AM
She's a fighter who had positioned herself as someone fighting against internet bullies from her first "controversial" beep/bop/boop post.  Everything she posted taken in that light makes perfect, logical sense.  But as she claimed the "media coach" told her in her Shapiro interview she can't use logic when people are having an emotional response.

We're in a post-truth, post-logic society now.  Adios Enlightenment values.  Hello irrational cry babies.  Now go buy more stuff on credit plebes!
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 20, 2021, 09:39:02 PM
I'm reluctant to post rumors because they're just that, rumors. But this is especially interesting.



Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: subego on March 30, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)

As a quick aside, he gave it away.

I've heard it described as a pointed move on this part. He didn't just sell Star Wars, he washed his hands of it.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 30, 2021, 05:08:18 PM
(But, then again, he's 4.05 billion dollars richer, so he may not give it a damn... lol!)

As a quick aside, he gave it away.

I've heard it described as a pointed move on this part. He didn't just sell Star Wars, he washed his hands of it.

*google google*

Huh. If money wasn't an issue, I thought it would be neat if Gl had simply, voluntarily put Star Wars in the public domain. (Not sure how that would actually work legally. I doubt it's a common occurance to donate an IP instead of clinging onto it legally for decades.)

Note that if GL did want to wash his hands of Star Wars, he spends a lot of time hanging out the set of The Mandalorian. Seller's remorse and all that.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: subego on March 30, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
Note that if GL did want to wash his hands of Star Wars, he spends a lot of time hanging out the set of The Mandalorian. Seller's remorse and all that.

I had forgotten the point which hit the idea home for me. He made the conscious choice not to let his children inherit Star Wars. I mean, yeah... they'll inherit money, but there won't be any Star Wars dynasty. I can see him regretting both now that the prequel burn has cooled.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 30, 2021, 07:19:40 PM
Note that if GL did want to wash his hands of Star Wars, he spends a lot of time hanging out the set of The Mandalorian. Seller's remorse and all that.

I had forgotten the point which hit the idea home for me. He made the conscious choice not to let his children inherit Star Wars. I mean, yeah... they'll inherit money, but there won't be any Star Wars dynasty. I can see him regretting both now that the prequel burn has cooled.

With the benefit of hindsight, Lucas should have spent more time grooming a sucessor from within Lucasfilm or bringing in someone from the outside (Like Favreau). Leave his kids a fair chunk of the company to inherit.
This whole lock, stock and barrel sale to Disney was the worst of all relevant decisions.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on March 30, 2021, 09:22:30 PM
Note that if GL did want to wash his hands of Star Wars, he spends a lot of time hanging out the set of The Mandalorian. Seller's remorse and all that.

I had forgotten the point which hit the idea home for me. He made the conscious choice not to let his children inherit Star Wars. I mean, yeah... they'll inherit money, but there won't be any Star Wars dynasty. I can see him regretting both now that the prequel burn has cooled.

With the benefit of hindsight, Lucas should have spent more time grooming a sucessor from within Lucasfilm or bringing in someone from the outside (Like Favreau). Leave his kids a fair chunk of the company to inherit.
This whole lock, stock and barrel sale to Disney was the worst of all relevant decisions.

He was.  And his creative successor is still there.  Filoni is Lucas now.  Problem is that cunt Kennedy was left in charge and is reportedly trying to remove the Favreau/Filoni faction because they don't produce unwatchable crap.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Shasarak on March 30, 2021, 10:06:40 PM
Lucas had his chance.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: SHARK on March 30, 2021, 11:09:21 PM
Lucas had his chance.

Greetings!

Yep, Shasarak, I agree. It is certainly an artistic and cultural *loss*--to have the whole Star Wars legacy go into the sewer, instead of the responsible hands of a custodian that loves and cherishes and respects the Star Wars legacy and franchise. That aspect, to me, is sadly frustrating, and entirely lamentable. It's fucking bullshit, you know?

Having said that, Lucas has been a moron from the beginning of whenever he decided to "Retire" and get rid of Star Wars. Artistically, he's had moments of brilliance, and even while he is a billionaire now, I think there is space and merit for believing that financially, and especially artistically in regards to the preservation and custodianship of the Star Wars legacy, Lucas has been a failure and a moron. The whole prequel series also demonstrates Lucas's artistic limitations, as well. Many professional art and film people--far more versed in this stuff than I am--have said that whatever level of writing/directing/artistic brilliance Lucas had back in the day, has clearly eroded and declined over the years.

So, I don't know. Fuck Lucas, you know? Fuck Star Wars, as far as that goes as well. For myself, star Wars will remain a beloved series encompassed by the *first* trilogy, honestly. Perhaps the second one as well, as I don't think they were terrible. After the second trilogy though, with all the feminist, woke bullshit? The franchise has died, and is now utterly worthless and irrelevant. At least to me.

I can't even remember most things from any of the recent Star Wars movies, even the second trilogy. It's all a rather mediocre blur of lines, feeble plots, and blandness. Strangely, though, my memories of scenes, awesome lines, and stunning visuals from the original Star Wars trilogy remains fresh, sharp, and vivid--despite that trilogy being watched from...a time, long, long ago... ;D

When the original Star Wars movie came out, I went with my best friend--we were kids--and we stood in line for fucking *hours* to see the film. It was crazy in those days. I remember the first movie well, and the following movies in that trilogy were also fucking awesome and brilliant, and have stayed with me ever since as fantastic memories. Just think of the first time you watched Obi Wan duel against Darth Vader! Or one of Vader's great arrivals on board a battleship, and so on. Solo and the rest making a daring escape in the Millennium Falcon, cracking jokes along the way. Luke rising in mastery and knowledge of the Force. It was all so epic, and so cool, and so well done, in every aspect. The films made since those days just seem like lots of flash and colour, lots of shallow virtue signaling, but no real substance. There's nothing *there* that's worthwhile to remember.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 12:34:10 AM
Lucas had his chance.

Greetings!

Yep, Shasarak, I agree. It is certainly an artistic and cultural *loss*--to have the whole Star Wars legacy go into the sewer, instead of the responsible hands of a custodian that loves and cherishes and respects the Star Wars legacy and franchise. That aspect, to me, is sadly frustrating, and entirely lamentable. It's fucking bullshit, you know?

Having said that, Lucas has been a moron from the beginning of whenever he decided to "Retire" and get rid of Star Wars. Artistically, he's had moments of brilliance, and even while he is a billionaire now, I think there is space and merit for believing that financially, and especially artistically in regards to the preservation and custodianship of the Star Wars legacy, Lucas has been a failure and a moron. The whole prequel series also demonstrates Lucas's artistic limitations, as well. Many professional art and film people--far more versed in this stuff than I am--have said that whatever level of writing/directing/artistic brilliance Lucas had back in the day, has clearly eroded and declined over the years.

So, I don't know. Fuck Lucas, you know? Fuck Star Wars, as far as that goes as well. For myself, star Wars will remain a beloved series encompassed by the *first* trilogy, honestly. Perhaps the second one as well, as I don't think they were terrible. After the second trilogy though, with all the feminist, woke bullshit? The franchise has died, and is now utterly worthless and irrelevant. At least to me.

I can't even remember most things from any of the recent Star Wars movies, even the second trilogy. It's all a rather mediocre blur of lines, feeble plots, and blandness. Strangely, though, my memories of scenes, awesome lines, and stunning visuals from the original Star Wars trilogy remains fresh, sharp, and vivid--despite that trilogy being watched from...a time, long, long ago... ;D

When the original Star Wars movie came out, I went with my best friend--we were kids--and we stood in line for fucking *hours* to see the film. It was crazy in those days. I remember the first movie well, and the following movies in that trilogy were also fucking awesome and brilliant, and have stayed with me ever since as fantastic memories. Just think of the first time you watched Obi Wan duel against Darth Vader! Or one of Vader's great arrivals on board a battleship, and so on. Solo and the rest making a daring escape in the Millennium Falcon, cracking jokes along the way. Luke rising in mastery and knowledge of the Force. It was all so epic, and so cool, and so well done, in every aspect. The films made since those days just seem like lots of flash and colour, lots of shallow virtue signaling, but no real substance. There's nothing *there* that's worthwhile to remember.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hello brother!

I agree, fuck Lucas, he sold the IP and now comes crying that they aren't doing things like he wishes... While he whipes his tears with the 4+ billion dollars they gave him for it.

Fuck him in the ass with a rusty barb wire wrapped baseball bat.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2021, 02:01:43 AM
So, I don't know. Fuck Lucas, you know? Fuck Star Wars, as far as that goes as well. For myself, star Wars will remain a beloved series encompassed by the *first* trilogy, honestly. Perhaps the second one as well, as I don't think they were terrible. After the second trilogy though, with all the feminist, woke bullshit? The franchise has died, and is now utterly worthless and irrelevant. At least to me.

I can't even remember most things from any of the recent Star Wars movies, even the second trilogy. It's all a rather mediocre blur of lines, feeble plots, and blandness. Strangely, though, my memories of scenes, awesome lines, and stunning visuals from the original Star Wars trilogy remains fresh, sharp, and vivid--despite that trilogy being watched from...a time, long, long ago... ;D

I loved the original trilogy, and of later material, I liked Rogue One and The Mandalorian - but the rest was terrible. George Lucas' best work was early in his career - I feel like it was he was best collaborating with others who helped implement his ideas, but I don't know details of how stuff was made.


The biggest, though, is the whole premise of the clones. This was one of the most senseless plot twists in the prequels -- where the Jedi are gifted a slave army from an unknown source, and the Jedi simply accept and use this slave army. The Clone Wars series tries to slightly address the issue of clones at times -- by making different clones to be individuals, and delving into their character and motivations. However, to me, some of that just highlights how the whole situation is senseless.

But it wasn't unknown. It was comissioned for the Republic by Master Sifo Diyas, created on Kamino, and then confirmed by Chancellor Palpaine when the Seperatists started open hostilites on Geonosis.

It's kinda hard to turn down a slave army when you have a million Battle Droids breathing down your neck. The Republic can sort all that stuff out later when the crisis is over. (tongue firmly in cheek on that last one)

Another example of something I didn't have a problem with in concept, more that Lucas did a poor job of telling an ambitious story, reminicent of something like Dune or Foundation, in that he was setting up some galaxy spanning events, and the dude just didn't have the chops he used to. (If he ever had, that's another argument)

I thought they did a poor job of telling the story as well, but I also thought the core concept was dumb. Sifo Dyas was a name given, but it was never confirmed how or why he did it. No one in the Jedi council or the Senate had any idea that the army was being created - which ought to be a pretty huge red flag.

The Jedi are first of all stupid for blindly accepting and trusting the slave army. (They could have used them without trusting them, note.) And further, they are morally bankrupt for using a slave army, without giving them their freedom and insisting that slavery is wrong. The Republic could have stepped up drafting and training a regular military, which would have taken over before the end of the wars. Plus, they should have devoted at least a lab to studying everything about the clones to know what all their orders are, for example.

I mean seriously, how the hell does the Old Republic not have a functioning military? That's just dumb.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Samsquantch on March 31, 2021, 02:16:44 AM
Star Wars is dead to me too. I saw A New Hope 47 times in theatre as kid back in the days where you didn't have to spend $100 for two people and popcorn and drinks. I've seen the last trilogy only once and they were the first that I did not go to theatre to see on opening day, in fact I didn't see them in theatres at all.

The first trilogy succeeded in part because Lucas based it on the archetype of the hero's journey which has survived from the writing of the Epic of Gilgamesh to recently when it seems to have been killed by wokeness.

The last good movie was Rogue One and The Mandalorian is by far better than the last six of the main trilogy.

It's just dead now beyond those two.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 31, 2021, 03:13:49 AM
So, I don't know. Fuck Lucas, you know? Fuck Star Wars, as far as that goes as well. For myself, star Wars will remain a beloved series encompassed by the *first* trilogy, honestly. Perhaps the second one as well, as I don't think they were terrible. After the second trilogy though, with all the feminist, woke bullshit? The franchise has died, and is now utterly worthless and irrelevant. At least to me.

I can't even remember most things from any of the recent Star Wars movies, even the second trilogy. It's all a rather mediocre blur of lines, feeble plots, and blandness. Strangely, though, my memories of scenes, awesome lines, and stunning visuals from the original Star Wars trilogy remains fresh, sharp, and vivid--despite that trilogy being watched from...a time, long, long ago... ;D

I loved the original trilogy, and of later material, I liked Rogue One and The Mandalorian - but the rest was terrible. George Lucas' best work was early in his career - I feel like it was he was best collaborating with others who helped implement his ideas, but I don't know details of how stuff was made.


The biggest, though, is the whole premise of the clones. This was one of the most senseless plot twists in the prequels -- where the Jedi are gifted a slave army from an unknown source, and the Jedi simply accept and use this slave army. The Clone Wars series tries to slightly address the issue of clones at times -- by making different clones to be individuals, and delving into their character and motivations. However, to me, some of that just highlights how the whole situation is senseless.

But it wasn't unknown. It was comissioned for the Republic by Master Sifo Diyas, created on Kamino, and then confirmed by Chancellor Palpaine when the Seperatists started open hostilites on Geonosis.

It's kinda hard to turn down a slave army when you have a million Battle Droids breathing down your neck. The Republic can sort all that stuff out later when the crisis is over. (tongue firmly in cheek on that last one)

Another example of something I didn't have a problem with in concept, more that Lucas did a poor job of telling an ambitious story, reminicent of something like Dune or Foundation, in that he was setting up some galaxy spanning events, and the dude just didn't have the chops he used to. (If he ever had, that's another argument)

I thought they did a poor job of telling the story as well, but I also thought the core concept was dumb. Sifo Dyas was a name given, but it was never confirmed how or why he did it. No one in the Jedi council or the Senate had any idea that the army was being created - which ought to be a pretty huge red flag.

And it was.

Quote
The Jedi are first of all stupid for blindly accepting and trusting the slave army. (They could have used them without trusting them, note.) And further, they are morally bankrupt for using a slave army, without giving them their freedom and insisting that slavery is wrong. The Republic could have stepped up drafting and training a regular military, which would have taken over before the end of the wars.

Hindsight is 20/20. As the audience, we knew the Jedi were in for a sudden yet inevitable betrayal. They had no idea the Sith lord was the Chancellor of the Republic, with the power to flip a proverbial switch to turn on his Galactic Empire. None of your suggestions would have changed things. The Republic needed an instant army that could match the sheer numbers of the Seperatist droid production capacity. The clones would always outnumber any conventional armies. (Barring a sucessful strike on the cloning facilities, which would be a victory stroke for the Seperatists.)

Quote
Plus, they should have devoted at least a lab to studying everything about the clones to know what all their orders are, for example.

I'm sure Chancellor Palpatine got a committee right on it.

Quote
I mean seriously, how the hell does the Old Republic not have a functioning military? That's just dumb.

Members seemed to be responsible for their own militaries. It seemed legal and above board for the Trade Federation to have a standing army of battle droids, and Naboo had it's own fighter squadrons and defense forces. We're talking about entire planets, not just states or provinces.

It would be a point in their favor that the Republic didn't need a standing army. Maybe things didn't work out 100% peacefully all the time, but it was peaceful enough that members were able to handle their own sovreign security needs, and there were no huge wars requiring the Republic to have, what would eventually have to be, a huge military to keep everyone in line.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/3d/e0/193de0ff913021944d71dbac35040b5d.jpg)

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: RandyB on March 31, 2021, 09:07:12 AM
Lucas chose Kennedy before he sold to Disney.

Lucas. Chose. Kennedy.

Never forget.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on March 31, 2021, 10:25:14 AM
Lucas chose Kennedy before he sold to Disney.

Lucas. Chose. Kennedy.

Never forget.

Yes he'd been working with her since the 70's.  She's on all the major movies (always fun to see Michael Moore as second unit director on the Indy films).  She's really good at doing the nuts and bolts of Hollywood.  She's a great producer.  She's fucking lousy as a creator.  I had never once heard of her being involved in the creative side until the sequel trilogy.  She was there to handle the money and booking everything.

Lucas and Filoni worked hand-in-hand in the passion project called The Clone Wars.  That series (despite some clunker storylines from time to time) is the pinnacle of Star Wars.  Filoni carried that through to Star Wars Rebels and was able to make the leap to live action in The Mandalorian.  He has zero experience actually running a production and Favreau was not on Star Wars at the time of the sale.  If Kennedy had been content to know her role and stay behind the curtains everything was fine.  But she decided the "Force is Female" and that she knew best for how to handle the franchise.  She thought she was the next Kevin Feige.  She's not.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 31, 2021, 04:21:25 PM
Lucas chose Kennedy before he sold to Disney.

Lucas. Chose. Kennedy.

Never forget.

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2021, 06:54:33 PM
Lucas and Filoni worked hand-in-hand in the passion project called The Clone Wars.  That series (despite some clunker storylines from time to time) is the pinnacle of Star Wars.  Filoni carried that through to Star Wars Rebels and was able to make the leap to live action in The Mandalorian.  He has zero experience actually running a production and Favreau was not on Star Wars at the time of the sale.  If Kennedy had been content to know her role and stay behind the curtains everything was fine.

If you thought Clone Wars was the pinnacle of Star Wars, then our tastes differ significantly. Personally, I thought the pinnacle was the original trilogy - with the best after that being Rogue One and The Mandalorian. Then there's a long gap before the rest.


The Jedi are first of all stupid for blindly accepting and trusting the slave army. (They could have used them without trusting them, note.) And further, they are morally bankrupt for using a slave army, without giving them their freedom and insisting that slavery is wrong. The Republic could have stepped up drafting and training a regular military, which would have taken over before the end of the wars.

Hindsight is 20/20. As the audience, we knew the Jedi were in for a sudden yet inevitable betrayal. They had no idea the Sith lord was the Chancellor of the Republic, with the power to flip a proverbial switch to turn on his Galactic Empire. None of your suggestions would have changed things. The Republic needed an instant army that could match the sheer numbers of the Seperatist droid production capacity. The clones would always outnumber any conventional armies. (Barring a sucessful strike on the cloning facilities, which would be a victory stroke for the Seperatists.)

Why would the clones always outnumber conventional armies? It's the partial output of just one planet - and there are thousands of planets in the Republic. Plus, even if they were more numerous, that's no reason to have absolutely no non-slave military. The Republic obviously had military capacity since there was a huge number of warships, fighters, and weapons that got created for the slave army.

This has nothing to do with hindsight. Regardless of whether I was watching this with no foreknowledge, I'd think it was dumb. As far as I can tell, it was *supposed* to look dumb - that's why Lucas had Senator Jar Jar extolling it.

Having a slave army in the first place is morally bankrupt. Turning over all your warships and weaponry to be run by a slave army is stupid.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 31, 2021, 08:06:23 PM
Lucas and Filoni worked hand-in-hand in the passion project called The Clone Wars.  That series (despite some clunker storylines from time to time) is the pinnacle of Star Wars.  Filoni carried that through to Star Wars Rebels and was able to make the leap to live action in The Mandalorian.  He has zero experience actually running a production and Favreau was not on Star Wars at the time of the sale.  If Kennedy had been content to know her role and stay behind the curtains everything was fine.

If you thought Clone Wars was the pinnacle of Star Wars, then our tastes differ significantly. Personally, I thought the pinnacle was the original trilogy - with the best after that being Rogue One and The Mandalorian. Then there's a long gap before the rest.


The Jedi are first of all stupid for blindly accepting and trusting the slave army. (They could have used them without trusting them, note.) And further, they are morally bankrupt for using a slave army, without giving them their freedom and insisting that slavery is wrong. The Republic could have stepped up drafting and training a regular military, which would have taken over before the end of the wars.

Hindsight is 20/20. As the audience, we knew the Jedi were in for a sudden yet inevitable betrayal. They had no idea the Sith lord was the Chancellor of the Republic, with the power to flip a proverbial switch to turn on his Galactic Empire. None of your suggestions would have changed things. The Republic needed an instant army that could match the sheer numbers of the Seperatist droid production capacity. The clones would always outnumber any conventional armies. (Barring a sucessful strike on the cloning facilities, which would be a victory stroke for the Seperatists.)

Why would the clones always outnumber conventional armies? It's the partial output of just one planet - and there are thousands of planets in the Republic.

One planet with a dedicated clone production facility, and Clones mature at twice the rate of the non-Clone humans. Once the clone production was put on a war footing, I'm sure Kamino could increase their production significantly. Not to mention it would have been wise to have Kamino create additional production facilities on other planets, so as to spread it out and make it less likely to end clone production by taking one planet.

Quote
Plus, even if they were more numerous, that's no reason to have absolutely no non-slave military. The Republic obviously had military capacity since there was a huge number of warships, fighters, and weapons that got created for the slave army.

And we're never told by who or how. Was it just Kamino? They don't seem to have the infrastructure for making military hardware. Perhaps a standard contract that would have gone under the Republic's radar, and then when the clone army was approved by the Senate, they could expand. The clone army in AOTC may have just been a sample product. Albeit a big one.

Quote
This has nothing to do with hindsight. Regardless of whether I was watching this with no foreknowledge, I'd think it was dumb. As far as I can tell, it was *supposed* to look dumb - that's why Lucas had Senator Jar Jar extolling it.

It's like a serious political story told in the mileu of Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon.

Quote
Having a slave army in the first place is morally bankrupt.

Never argued otherwise. I'm sure Lucas would agree that that was the point. The Republic had anti-slavery laws, as pointed out in Phantom Menace. That they were willing to overlook their principles in the face of a disaster is all too human and understandable.

Quote
Turning over all your warships and weaponry to be run by a slave army is stupid.

That's why they were genetically altered and trained to be loyal to the Republic. And they did their duty. It's not their fault the boss turned out to be an Evil Space Wizard.

And never forget, the Senate cheered Palpatine's Empire.

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Jame Rowe on March 31, 2021, 11:54:49 PM
Lucas chose Kennedy before he sold to Disney.

Lucas. Chose. Kennedy.

Never forget.

Yes he'd been working with her since the 70's.  She's on all the major movies (always fun to see Michael Moore as second unit director on the Indy films).  She's really good at doing the nuts and bolts of Hollywood.  She's a great producer.  She's fucking lousy as a creator.  I had never once heard of her being involved in the creative side until the sequel trilogy.  She was there to handle the money and booking everything.

Lucas and Filoni worked hand-in-hand in the passion project called The Clone Wars.  That series (despite some clunker storylines from time to time) is the pinnacle of Star Wars.  Filoni carried that through to Star Wars Rebels and was able to make the leap to live action in The Mandalorian.  He has zero experience actually running a production and Favreau was not on Star Wars at the time of the sale.  If Kennedy had been content to know her role and stay behind the curtains everything was fine.  But she decided the "Force is Female" and that she knew best for how to handle the franchise.  She thought she was the next Kevin Feige.  She's not.

I have no problem with strong female characters, Force-wielding or not. E.G., Sabine Wren, Ahsoka or Leia.

But in a proper story, you have both strong female and strong male characters.  Step away from that and, well...
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 01, 2021, 12:12:44 AM
Lucas chose Kennedy before he sold to Disney.

Lucas. Chose. Kennedy.

Never forget.

Yes he'd been working with her since the 70's.  She's on all the major movies (always fun to see Michael Moore as second unit director on the Indy films).  She's really good at doing the nuts and bolts of Hollywood.  She's a great producer.  She's fucking lousy as a creator.  I had never once heard of her being involved in the creative side until the sequel trilogy.  She was there to handle the money and booking everything.

Lucas and Filoni worked hand-in-hand in the passion project called The Clone Wars.  That series (despite some clunker storylines from time to time) is the pinnacle of Star Wars.  Filoni carried that through to Star Wars Rebels and was able to make the leap to live action in The Mandalorian.  He has zero experience actually running a production and Favreau was not on Star Wars at the time of the sale.  If Kennedy had been content to know her role and stay behind the curtains everything was fine.  But she decided the "Force is Female" and that she knew best for how to handle the franchise.  She thought she was the next Kevin Feige.  She's not.

I have no problem with strong female characters, Force-wielding or not. E.G., Sabine Wren, Ahsoka or Leia.

But in a proper story, you have both strong female and strong male characters.  Step away from that and, well...

Hopefully at this point everyone understands that the identity politics isn't about telling good stories, or "empowering women", it's about control.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on April 01, 2021, 09:59:18 AM
Lucas chose Kennedy before he sold to Disney.

Lucas. Chose. Kennedy.

Never forget.

Yes he'd been working with her since the 70's.  She's on all the major movies (always fun to see Michael Moore as second unit director on the Indy films).  She's really good at doing the nuts and bolts of Hollywood.  She's a great producer.  She's fucking lousy as a creator.  I had never once heard of her being involved in the creative side until the sequel trilogy.  She was there to handle the money and booking everything.

Lucas and Filoni worked hand-in-hand in the passion project called The Clone Wars.  That series (despite some clunker storylines from time to time) is the pinnacle of Star Wars.  Filoni carried that through to Star Wars Rebels and was able to make the leap to live action in The Mandalorian.  He has zero experience actually running a production and Favreau was not on Star Wars at the time of the sale.  If Kennedy had been content to know her role and stay behind the curtains everything was fine.  But she decided the "Force is Female" and that she knew best for how to handle the franchise.  She thought she was the next Kevin Feige.  She's not.

I have no problem with strong female characters, Force-wielding or not. E.G., Sabine Wren, Ahsoka or Leia.

But in a proper story, you have both strong female and strong male characters.  Step away from that and, well...

Lol I was sad when Sasha Banks wasn't Sabine Wren.  Still a badass character but a fan boy can hope.  Ahsoka is the main reason why Clone Wars is so good.

It's almost like there needs to be balance in the Force....
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Jame Rowe on April 01, 2021, 03:12:20 PM
Hopefully at this point everyone understands that the identity politics isn't about telling good stories, or "empowering women", it's about control.

That it is, on many sides.

Lol I was sad when Sasha Banks wasn't Sabine Wren.  Still a badass character but a fan boy can hope.  Ahsoka is the main reason why Clone Wars is so good.

It's almost like there needs to be balance in the Force....

I'm satisfied with Tiya Sircar. (If she has politics, I don't know about it.)
I know nothing about Sasha Banks other than what I looked up just now. She could have been a good addition.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on April 01, 2021, 06:41:21 PM
Lol I was sad when Sasha Banks wasn't Sabine Wren.  Still a badass character but a fan boy can hope.  Ahsoka is the main reason why Clone Wars is so good.

It's almost like there needs to be balance in the Force....

I'm satisfied with Tiya Sircar. (If she has politics, I don't know about it.)
I know nothing about Sasha Banks other than what I looked up just now. She could have been a good addition.

Well yeah I mean Tiya Sircar did good voice work on the cartoon.  Is she rumored to be playing her in a possible live action?  Rumors I'm hearing are that all the Disney+ serials will build up to the return of Thrawn (and presumably Sabine and Ezra) and then a modified Heir to the Empire adaptation.  I'd be fine with her as Sabine.

Sasha Banks portrayed brand new Mandalorian Koska Reeves.  Just kind of let her rip in the action scenes like they did with Gina.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: David Johansen on April 02, 2021, 05:34:37 AM
My take on the clone wars is that the actual mobilization was very low.  The Separatists were mainly using droids and the Republic were mainly using clones, the common people watched with interest but really had no skin in the game.  Oh, their taxes went up but taxes were always going up, that's why there's such a strong black market/smuggling economy.  It costs three hundred credits to make a speeder and costs thirty thousand to buy one and most of that is tax and licensing and duty.  Most manufacturing is automated and most jobs are in the service sector because people don't like dealing with droids and droids are made clunky and inhuman because the laws require it to preserve jobs.  But the reality is that, outside of re-enactors and droid battle spectaculars, nobody has actually fought a war in a thousand years and nobody really knows how to fight one.  The Gungans haven't had a war since Naboo was colonized and they adapted technology to the way they fought wars as a result of tradition and internal policing.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on April 02, 2021, 01:10:58 PM
This has nothing to do with hindsight. Regardless of whether I was watching this with no foreknowledge, I'd think it was dumb. As far as I can tell, it was *supposed* to look dumb - that's why Lucas had Senator Jar Jar extolling it.

It's like a serious political story told in the mileu of Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon.

Having a slave army in the first place is morally bankrupt.

Never argued otherwise. I'm sure Lucas would agree that that was the point. The Republic had anti-slavery laws, as pointed out in Phantom Menace. That they were willing to overlook their principles in the face of a disaster is all too human and understandable.

I don't want to get too caught up in minutia here, but I think what you say about Buck Rogers is on point. I can enjoy a pulp story greatly. I was just watching the 1970s Wonder Woman series last week with my son on college break. We laughed and enjoyed the cheesiness, in part because it was very sincere. If this were a Buck Rogers episode, the first thing he would do is declare slavery immoral, free them, and then win their trust and lead them to victory. (Roughly - it's been a while since I've read or watched Buck Rogers specifically.)

But the prequels have all the senseless plot devices of pulp without that - and so to me, the political points fall completely flat. There's no depth of character, no substance to the philosophy or ethics, and no realism to the politics. Maybe Lucas would privately agree that slavery is wrong - but *no one* actually stands up for that point in the prequels. It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign. Maybe that happens at some point in the Clone Wars - I've only seen a dozen or two episodes - but even if it eventually does, that's too little too late for me.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 02, 2021, 04:52:54 PM
This has nothing to do with hindsight. Regardless of whether I was watching this with no foreknowledge, I'd think it was dumb. As far as I can tell, it was *supposed* to look dumb - that's why Lucas had Senator Jar Jar extolling it.

It's like a serious political story told in the mileu of Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon.

Having a slave army in the first place is morally bankrupt.

Never argued otherwise. I'm sure Lucas would agree that that was the point. The Republic had anti-slavery laws, as pointed out in Phantom Menace. That they were willing to overlook their principles in the face of a disaster is all too human and understandable.

I don't want to get too caught up in minutia here, but I think what you say about Buck Rogers is on point. I can enjoy a pulp story greatly. I was just watching the 1970s Wonder Woman series last week with my son on college break. We laughed and enjoyed the cheesiness, in part because it was very sincere. If this were a Buck Rogers episode, the first thing he would do is declare slavery immoral, free them, and then win their trust and lead them to victory. (Roughly - it's been a while since I've read or watched Buck Rogers specifically.)

But the prequels have all the senseless plot devices of pulp without that - and so to me, the political points fall completely flat. There's no depth of character, no substance to the philosophy or ethics, and no realism to the politics. Maybe Lucas would privately agree that slavery is wrong - but *no one* actually stands up for that point in the prequels. It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign. Maybe that happens at some point in the Clone Wars - I've only seen a dozen or two episodes - but even if it eventually does, that's too little too late for me.

I think we're reaching the agreement zone. If this were an episode of Buck Rogers, it would be 40 minutes, (80 for a two parter) versus the 6+ hours of the prequels. They'd tell a very streamlined story, and only pick out one or two of the major plot threads, and pick a single theme. The fall of the Republic was a backdrop for the tale of Anakin's fall, and so it suffered from not being explored in the story as much. I could pick up his slack and imagine the logical consequences of the Republic's decisions, but that is me doing Lucas's storytelling work, and I'll say that the films dropped the ball on that count. Some things can be left to interpretation, but major themes and ideas should not.  I think that's why Clone Wars was so popular. They had roughly 40 hours to relax and explore all the possible fallout of the prequel story lines. But then, they put in that stupid idea about the brain chips. I really preferred the idea that the clones were indoctrinated, not turned into biological zombies.

Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Kyle Aaron on April 03, 2021, 03:16:43 AM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Daztur on April 04, 2021, 08:53:56 PM
If there's anything that Star Wars proves it's the importance of an Appendix N. The OT's Appendix N included Kurosawa, Buck Rogers, Westerns, WW II movies, stories about tramp steamers, etc. etc. It all fits together well because each part feels familiar but the way it's combined makes it feel fresh (or at least it felt fresh in the 70's). The problem with a lot of later Star Wars is that instead of being influenced by a whole range of things it was mostly just influenced by Star Wars which lead to the same kind of horrible human centipede of hackery that you get from any other media that is only influenced by one thing from Tolkien knock-offs to shitty fanfic.

What made Rogue One (for all of its problems with character and plot) and The Mandalorian (despite how simple its stories are at time) work and be enjoyable is that they went back to Star War's Appendix N (mostly WW II movies for Rogue One and Westerns and samurai stories for The Mandalorian) which helped them break out of the horrible incestuous loop that too much Star Wars media had gotten stuck in.

That said, I still prefer the Sequel Trilogy to the Prequel Trilogy, the ST was frequently stupid and the different movies clashed horribly but at least it wasn't as boring as the PT often was. For the ST the first movie had a dumb plot but at least the characters were fun, the second one felt like a half-baked rough draft of a good movie in that I could see the good ideas poking through the shit even though it ended up not really working and the third movie had a kind of enthusiastic Axe Cop idiocy to it that I couldn't help but find a bit endearing. But then the PT is such shit that that's really damning with faint praise.

Can't speak on Clone Wars, didn't see it. Saw a bit of Rebels with my son and thought it was decent but not great so I can't speak to much to them.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 04, 2021, 09:25:48 PM
If there's anything that Star Wars proves it's the importance of an Appendix N. The OT's Appendix N included Kurosawa, Buck Rogers, Westerns, WW II movies, stories about tramp steamers, etc. etc. It all fits together well because each part feels familiar but the way it's combined makes it feel fresh (or at least it felt fresh in the 70's). The problem with a lot of later Star Wars is that instead of being influenced by a whole range of things it was mostly just influenced by Star Wars which lead to the same kind of horrible human centipede of hackery that you get from any other media that is only influenced by one thing from Tolkien knock-offs to shitty fanfic.

What made Rogue One (for all of its problems with character and plot) and The Mandalorian (despite how simple its stories are at time) work and be enjoyable is that they went back to Star War's Appendix N (mostly WW II movies for Rogue One and Westerns and samurai stories for The Mandalorian) which helped them break out of the horrible incestuous loop that too much Star Wars media had gotten stuck in.

Agree. Even Lucas seemed to fall into that trap, though I think he was running on the fumes of his original 1970's script work.

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That said, I still prefer the Sequel Trilogy to the Prequel Trilogy, the ST was frequently stupid and the different movies clashed horribly but at least it wasn't as boring as the PT often was. For the ST the first movie had a dumb plot but at least the characters were fun, the second one felt like a half-baked rough draft of a good movie in that I could see the good ideas poking through the shit even though it ended up not really working and the third movie had a kind of enthusiastic Axe Cop idiocy to it that I couldn't help but find a bit endearing. But then the PT is such shit that that's really damning with faint praise.


I liked about one or two things each from FA (Rey on Jaku before the plot found her) and LJ, (The idea of the Force Diad) but the rest was so bad I didn't care and mentally tuned out.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Daztur on April 04, 2021, 09:52:02 PM
Agree. Even Lucas seemed to fall into that trap, though I think he was running on the fumes of his original 1970's script work.

Exactly, felt like he'd lost touch with the old inspirations for the OT. One of the main problems with it is how quickly he went from a rough draft of the script to shooting. The early drafts of the OT would've made for shit movies as well, they just were revised into something much better before shooting started and then edited well afterwards.

A lot of the Mandalorian is pretty simplistic rehashes of old Western plots in space but it works because it does that well enough (and my kids sure as hell don't know what's an old hat Western plot and what's new so they love it) and it isn't just a constant rehash of specific Star Wars things unlike stuff like us getting told how C3P0 got made or why Han is called "Solo" and how he got his jacket etc. etc.

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I liked about one or two things each from FA (Rey on Jaku before the plot found her) and LJ, (The idea of the Force Diad) but the rest was so bad I didn't care and mentally tuned out.

For me Rey on Jaku was fun enough to keep things fun until the bar scene after that the stupid plot ate everything but it had built up enough momentum at that point to at least be OK.

For the second one the Force Diad was obviously the best part of the movie and while most of the rest of the movie was bad the force diad bits played enough of a role in the story to make it more enjoyable than the PT for me. But then I've never felt any desire to watch it again.

For the third one it felt EXACTLY like something I would've written when I was 7. So incredibly stupid but little seven year old Daztur was running around inside my head cheering the whole movie.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jeff37923 on April 05, 2021, 04:38:11 PM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: HappyDaze on April 05, 2021, 04:43:05 PM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.
They've played back and forth with it. Dooku went full Sith 10 years before he joined the Separatists. When they did that, it really wrecked a lot of his potential.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 05, 2021, 09:50:00 PM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.

Was that in the cartoons or something? I don't remember them specifying why Dooku was a seperatist in the films. Just some vague disillusionment with the Jedi and the Republic.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: HappyDaze on April 06, 2021, 05:17:02 AM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.

Was that in the cartoons or something? I don't remember them specifying why Dooku was a seperatist in the films. Just some vague disillusionment with the Jedi and the Republic.
They at one point tried to say that Dooku left because of the "pointless" death of Qui-Gon Jinn. At least, that was supposed to be the tipping point. However, within a very short time of that, he went Sith, killed off a friend (Sifo Dyas), arranged for the maiming/cyborg reconstruction of Greivous, and started the whole Clone scheme. So, either he had spent a long while growing in disillusionment (which would have been a better background), or he just went nuts and snapped like a corny comic villain (which is more typical Lucas storytelling).
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on April 06, 2021, 10:54:38 AM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.

Was that in the cartoons or something? I don't remember them specifying why Dooku was a seperatist in the films. Just some vague disillusionment with the Jedi and the Republic.

Check out the script for Dooku: Jedi Lost which was turned into a novel.  It's Asajj Ventress doing a mission for her master Dooku but in the course of doing that he leaves memoirs and recollections of his life for her to view which explain his training and background.  It actually covers some of the stuff that people are complaining about in this thread.

Lucas only had 3 movies for the Prequel and had a lot of ground to cover.  There just plain wasn't time for it all.  For instance see the deleted scene that's still canon of Jocasta Nu talking about Dooku with Obi-wan.

At this point the main tent pole movies cover a period of about 100 years and 100's of characters.  There's loads of stuff that didn't make it into movies that provides a lot of the background on things.  I know that its not incumbent on the viewers to keep up with all of this but there's usually an answer to all the questions already.  Movies are made to explain a specific point in time and a specific theme.  Its not efficient to cover every facet of every period and culture we encounter in each one.  Its why we don't get a long monologue about the Geonosian culture while Obi-wan et al are chained in the arena.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 06, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.

Was that in the cartoons or something? I don't remember them specifying why Dooku was a seperatist in the films. Just some vague disillusionment with the Jedi and the Republic.

Check out the script for Dooku: Jedi Lost which was turned into a novel.  It's Asajj Ventress doing a mission for her master Dooku but in the course of doing that he leaves memoirs and recollections of his life for her to view which explain his training and background.  It actually covers some of the stuff that people are complaining about in this thread.

Lucas only had 3 movies for the Prequel and had a lot of ground to cover.  There just plain wasn't time for it all.  For instance see the deleted scene that's still canon of Jocasta Nu talking about Dooku with Obi-wan.

At this point the main tent pole movies cover a period of about 100 years and 100's of characters.  There's loads of stuff that didn't make it into movies that provides a lot of the background on things.  I know that its not incumbent on the viewers to keep up with all of this but there's usually an answer to all the questions already.  Movies are made to explain a specific point in time and a specific theme.  Its not efficient to cover every facet of every period and culture we encounter in each one.  Its why we don't get a long monologue about the Geonosian culture while Obi-wan et al are chained in the arena.

Eh. I tend to avoid EU type stuff, especially novels.

I agree, not everything needs to be spelled out in the films. I can plug some gaps with my own imagination. But there's a lot of dangling questions about details in the prequels that people hash over to this day, because they're rather important to motivations and justifications for events in the films.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on April 06, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.

It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.

There are other pulp portrayals of aristocratic societies where the heroes don't seem like slave-holding scum - like Robin Hood or the Three Musketeers. In the original Star Wars trilogy, Obi Wan, Leia, and Yoda didn't come across this way.

Within the prequels, Count Dooku is a blatant pulp villain complete with all the trappings - including cruelly and ineffectively sending the heroes to die in a monster arena. I don't recall him having any coherent criticism of the Jedi council in the prequel movies - and even if he did, using him as a mouthpiece for saying such is a piss-poor choice.

I can deal with the heroes having the tragic flaw of wanting to use their slave army - but *someone* should point it out as a moral flaw. (Like Othello being told to not be a violent jealous murderer, or King Lear being told to not be an arrogant dumbass.)

EDIT: fixed typo
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on April 06, 2021, 02:45:11 PM
It would be nice if at least someone on the Jedi Council were to refuse to support slavery and resign.
It's an aristocratic society. Someone will be at the bottom, and they will have extremely limited rights, whether they're called slaves, serfs - or clones. And those at the top will congratulate themselves on their magnanimity even as they take a drink from the tray of a passing slave. "We rule for their good, really. It's the natural order of things."

Yes understandable.  I think the issue was scope.  Lucas does really well with narrow films -- Original Trilogy and Indiana Jones -- but the Prequel Trilogy was just so big a bite to take that there's these gaps.  He's not the greatest writer so sometimes it takes a back seat to his world building (and toy selling) ideas.
The primary reason why Count Dooku joined the Separatists in canon was that he was protesting the excesses of the Republic and the Jedi's involvement in politics when it suited them.

Was that in the cartoons or something? I don't remember them specifying why Dooku was a seperatist in the films. Just some vague disillusionment with the Jedi and the Republic.

Check out the script for Dooku: Jedi Lost which was turned into a novel.  It's Asajj Ventress doing a mission for her master Dooku but in the course of doing that he leaves memoirs and recollections of his life for her to view which explain his training and background.  It actually covers some of the stuff that people are complaining about in this thread.

Lucas only had 3 movies for the Prequel and had a lot of ground to cover.  There just plain wasn't time for it all.  For instance see the deleted scene that's still canon of Jocasta Nu talking about Dooku with Obi-wan.

At this point the main tent pole movies cover a period of about 100 years and 100's of characters.  There's loads of stuff that didn't make it into movies that provides a lot of the background on things.  I know that its not incumbent on the viewers to keep up with all of this but there's usually an answer to all the questions already.  Movies are made to explain a specific point in time and a specific theme.  Its not efficient to cover every facet of every period and culture we encounter in each one.  Its why we don't get a long monologue about the Geonosian culture while Obi-wan et al are chained in the arena.

Eh. I tend to avoid EU type stuff, especially novels.

I agree, not everything needs to be spelled out in the films. I can plug some gaps with my own imagination. But there's a lot of dangling questions about details in the prequels that people hash over to this day, because they're rather important to motivations and justifications for events in the films.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: David Johansen on April 07, 2021, 06:21:29 AM
I always feel Star Wars could use just a little more exposition here and there.  Not, massive doses of Star Trek style babble, but just a word or two on why you can see the other planets of the New Republic blowing up all the way over here.  Somehow, the first time I watched The Force Awakens I thought the New Order launched hologram projecting satellites but it wasn't there the second time I watched it.  I haven't bothered to watch the other two sequels twice.

I suspect Dooku left because he was arrogant and they wouldn't make him a master and there was Palpatine slowly whittling away at his ideals and building up The Republic's faults while suggesting other ways.  Quigon might have been closer to falling than we know, he was often at odds with the council.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Kyle Aaron on April 07, 2021, 06:24:57 AM
There are other pulp portrayals of aristocratic societies where the heroes don't seem like slave-holding scum - like Robin Hood or the Three Musketeers.
Yes. Those are aristocratic societies, but the heroes are not on the top of those societies. They're either subversives or enforcers of some kind for the elites.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on April 07, 2021, 10:29:51 AM
I suspect Dooku left because he was arrogant and they wouldn't make him a master and there was Palpatine slowly whittling away at his ideals and building up The Republic's faults while suggesting other ways.  Quigon might have been closer to falling than we know, he was often at odds with the council.

In the movies they do actually mention that he was a Master who left.  The deleted scene expands on it a bit more because they have bronze busts of the "Lost Masters" in the Library because there were only ever 13 Masters that left the Jedi Order.

The specifics are detailed in Dooku: Jedi Lost.  Lets just say he saw a lot of corruption and unwillingness to act amongst the Jedi.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on April 07, 2021, 11:46:08 AM
There are other pulp portrayals of aristocratic societies where the heroes don't seem like slave-holding scum - like Robin Hood or the Three Musketeers.

Yes. Those are aristocratic societies, but the heroes are not on the top of those societies. They're either subversives or enforcers of some kind for the elites.

Details of Robin vary, but in the most popular portrayals (including Flynn, Disney, Costner), Robin is Sir Robin of Loxley - a noble who could have enjoyed his privileges if he cooperated with the Sheriff, but instead chose to throw his lot in with outlaws. The musketeers are all of at least noble birth, and Athos is a count.

But really, that's beside the point. The point is that they are popular portrayals of aristocratic societies in older pulp stories that Star Wars draws from, and they have heroes that speak out against slavery and oppression. In pulp stories, the heroes would stand up for truth, justice, and freedom for all. In the original series, it seemed like the Jedi fought for a democratic society - it was called a Republic, and their philosophy seemed egalitarian in respecting all life - in contrast to the Empire. Luke had no idea who Yoda was because he was expecting what he imagined as a great and noble warrior, but actually Yoda was a small and humble creature who seems content in his hut.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: David Johansen on April 07, 2021, 02:19:01 PM
"Content in his hut?"  Yoda is Sideshow Bob plotting his revenge in mini-storage.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: jhkim on April 07, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
"Content in his hut?"  Yoda is Sideshow Bob plotting his revenge in mini-storage.

Dude - I'm not saying that Yoda didn't intend to act against the Empire. I'm saying that his *lifestyle* doesn't seem like he is a rich aristocrat on hard times - longing to get back his riches. i.e. He seems more like Robin Hood living a simple life rather than an aristocratic general of a slave army.

It is technically consistent that in his earlier life he could have been a slave-driving warmonger, but there is no sign of that in the original trilogy.


EDITED TO ADD: The point is that in the original trilogy, the good guys stood up for truth, justice, and freedom. It would have been against the ethos of the original trilogy for someone to suggest using a slave army to defeat the Empire - even though it was an even more desperate struggle than the Separatists in the prequels.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 07, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
"Content in his hut?"  Yoda is Sideshow Bob plotting his revenge in mini-storage.

Dude - I'm not saying that Yoda didn't intend to act against the Empire. I'm saying that his *lifestyle* doesn't seem like he is a rich aristocrat on hard times - longing to get back his riches. i.e. He seems more like Robin Hood living a simple life rather than an aristocratic general of a slave army.

It is technically consistent that in his earlier life he could have been a slave-driving warmonger, but there is no sign of that in the original trilogy.


EDITED TO ADD: The point is that in the original trilogy, the good guys stood up for truth, justice, and freedom. It would have been against the ethos of the original trilogy for someone to suggest using a slave army to defeat the Empire - even though it was an even more desperate struggle than the Separatists in the prequels.

The Rebellion didn't have a Senate to answer to for their actions. By their very name and definition, they were finally fed up with doing thing legally and were going to get some guns and ships and kill the Empire and damn the collateral damage and political fallout.
Just as the PT sanitized the use of a slave army, the OT sanitized the type of guerrlia war the Rebellion would have been fighting. They kinda sorta address this decades later, in Rogue One, after Lucas sold the franchise, and only dip their toe in. Like the Cartoons dipping their toe into the morality of using a slave army.
Title: Re: Disney goes full sjw and fires Gina Carano from the Mandalorian
Post by: KingCheops on April 07, 2021, 09:09:23 PM
"Content in his hut?"  Yoda is Sideshow Bob plotting his revenge in mini-storage.

Dude - I'm not saying that Yoda didn't intend to act against the Empire. I'm saying that his *lifestyle* doesn't seem like he is a rich aristocrat on hard times - longing to get back his riches. i.e. He seems more like Robin Hood living a simple life rather than an aristocratic general of a slave army.

It is technically consistent that in his earlier life he could have been a slave-driving warmonger, but there is no sign of that in the original trilogy.


EDITED TO ADD: The point is that in the original trilogy, the good guys stood up for truth, justice, and freedom. It would have been against the ethos of the original trilogy for someone to suggest using a slave army to defeat the Empire - even though it was an even more desperate struggle than the Separatists in the prequels.

The Rebellion didn't have a Senate to answer to for their actions. By their very name and definition, they were finally fed up with doing thing legally and were going to get some guns and ships and kill the Empire and damn the collateral damage and political fallout.
Just as the PT sanitized the use of a slave army, the OT sanitized the type of guerrlia war the Rebellion would have been fighting. They kinda sorta address this decades later, in Rogue One, after Lucas sold the franchise, and only dip their toe in. Like the Cartoons dipping their toe into the morality of using a slave army.

Funny enough even then it was STILL George Lucas who created Saw Gerrera.