This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?  (Read 13577 times)

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #90 on: June 02, 2022, 01:17:27 PM »
Quote
Using logic to find answers isn't science.

I cannot even begin to address how silly this is.
Your failure to understand is the silly part.

Logic and science aren't synonyms. One may be a prerequisite for the other, but saying they're the same thing is like saying all mammals are bears.
Except that's not what you said.

Lay off the tequila.
It's exactly what I said.

Take a basic course in English.

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #91 on: June 02, 2022, 01:37:41 PM »
@Pat I would love to have RPG sourcebooks exploring that kind of casual folkloric magic. Modern D&D media feels completely disconnected from the old fairy tales and myths. Or even real occult traditions.
Agreed. I tend to lean into the fairy tale feel in my games, but it's not always that consistent, and it fights with many components of the game. The magic system would need a significant re-work, for instance. It's too energy-based and kitchen sink. In addition to obvious sources like Grimm, Anderson, and Lang, I'd also look at sources like Ovid, Spencer, Hearn, the Matter of France, Taoism, collections of folklore from the British Isles and Russia, the Kalevala, the Mahabharata, and many more. I recently glanced at a few of the old Enchanted World Time Life books, and they seem to be surprisingly good.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 01:40:23 PM by Pat »

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #92 on: June 02, 2022, 01:40:49 PM »
Quote
Using logic to find answers isn't science.

I cannot even begin to address how silly this is.
Your failure to understand is the silly part.

Logic and science aren't synonyms. One may be a prerequisite for the other, but saying they're the same thing is like saying all mammals are bears.
Except that's not what you said.

Lay off the tequila.
It's exactly what I said.

Take a basic course in English.
Whatever. LOL.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #93 on: June 02, 2022, 04:56:53 PM »
Or even real occult traditions.

Like Scientology and Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn?
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Armchair Gamer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • A
  • Posts: 3009
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2022, 08:59:53 PM »
I recently glanced at a few of the old Enchanted World Time Life books, and they seem to be surprisingly good.

  Several years ago, I was hit with a wave of nostalgia and managed to hunt down the complete series, piece by piece. They really are rather good.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2022, 03:28:01 AM »
@Pat I would love to have RPG sourcebooks exploring that kind of casual folkloric magic. Modern D&D media feels completely disconnected from the old fairy tales and myths. Or even real occult traditions.

Have you looked at Lion & Dragon? And The Invisible College?
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

BoxCrayonTales

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • B
  • Posts: 3313
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2022, 11:25:11 AM »
@Pat I would love to have RPG sourcebooks exploring that kind of casual folkloric magic. Modern D&D media feels completely disconnected from the old fairy tales and myths. Or even real occult traditions.

Have you looked at Lion & Dragon? And The Invisible College?
I haven't looked at Lion & Dragon yet. I have looked through Invisible College.

Have you read BRP Enlightened Magic? I think that's a really good implementation of what I mean, particularly the alchemy system. It takes concepts from real occultism and turns it into something that is readily gameable.

The alchemy system has three levels of proficiency that correspond to body, mind, and soul in the manner of production and the application/target of the effect. The first circle involves creating alchemical reagents in a laboratory that are applied in the field, or modifying objects or people in the laboratory. The second circle involves creating works of art, such as paintings, sculptures, instruments, or sheet music, that create the desired response in audiences. The third circle involves meditating and going on vision quests to create effects, which are then applied by touch or pointing at the target. Each named spell exists at all three circles with a corresponding application of the effect, in accordance with the principle of "as above, so below."

Mythras also has folk magic but I'm not familiar with it.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2022, 01:17:42 PM »
Well, my point is both IC and L&D totally change the D&D magic system to fit authentic magic from occultism or myth/legend.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Stephen Tannhauser

  • Curmudgeonly Refugee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 1205
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2022, 01:21:43 PM »
Well, my point is both IC and L&D totally change the D&D magic system to fit authentic magic from occultism or myth/legend.

From your own playtesting of the L&D magic system, out of curiosity, how does it change the feel of magic-user characters in play? What do people used to D&D style magic have to wrap their heads around to make it work?
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

Effete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: D&D Promotes Race Essentialism?
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2022, 07:10:22 PM »
The way things are going, the graduates are only fit to make sandwiches.

I wish this were true. Sadly corporations are creating homes for these people in "fairness & equity" departments to spread their misery on their employees and the rest of society. Well paid I might add.
However, it's the same problem those gender studies graduates have; there are only so many positions and departments to staff. And they are resource drains on the company.

But yeah, in the interim the wokeists will hire other wokeists to keep parasitizing the productives.

That being said... I wonder if they know that you can roll up non-optimal race/class combinations and still have fun with them?

But that would mean not absolutely dominating their field... something completely antithetical to these power-hungry narcissists. Their idea of "fun" is putting down others to elevate themselves.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 07:13:32 PM by Effete »