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Dark Albion, powered by ZWEIHÄNDER - pundit, you game?

Started by ZWEIHÄNDER, July 13, 2012, 02:05:33 PM

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Benoist

#15
July 16, 2012, 07:41:35 PM
The idea of a sort of primer with a few sample settings showing different directions in which you could take the game in the main book sounds like a pretty good idea to me, if it adds up to what's already there of course, rather than taking away from the rest of the game.

ZWEIHÄNDER

#16
July 16, 2012, 07:54:28 PM
Quote from: Benoist;560900The idea of a sort of primer with a few sample settings showing different directions in which you could take the game in the main book sounds like a pretty good idea to me, if it adds up to what's already there of course, rather than taking away from the rest of the game.

Bingo, sir!
No thanks.

RPGPundit

#17
July 16, 2012, 10:46:45 PM
I sent you a PM.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


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Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

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The Traveller

#18
July 17, 2012, 04:00:22 AM
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;560903Bingo, sir!
Not to play devil's advocate or even being critical here, just curious, in what way will Zweihander be more setting agnostic than Warhammer if you took away the main setting there?
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

RPGPundit

#19
July 17, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
You're asking "how would Zweihander be more like WFRP without a setting than WFRP would be if you took away its setting"?

Isn't that kind of a retarded question?

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

The Traveller

#20
July 17, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;561105You're asking "how would Zweihander be more like WFRP without a setting than WFRP would be if you took away its setting"?

Isn't that kind of a retarded question?

RPGPundit
Only if you read it in a retarded way. Its pretty simple really - dark and gritty medieval Europe is dark and gritty medieval Europe, and the artwork seems to be along the same lines. Why would I play this rather than Warhammer in a different setting, out of curiosity? Don't bother answering, I wasn't asking you.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Benoist

#21
July 17, 2012, 02:32:02 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;561126Only if you read it in a retarded way. Its pretty simple really - dark and gritty medieval Europe is dark and gritty medieval Europe, and the artwork seems to be along the same lines. Why would I play this rather than Warhammer in a different setting, out of curiosity? Don't bother answering, I wasn't asking you.

Well that wasn't asked of me either, but I'll answer anyway.

The answer is very simple: because "dark and gritty medieval Europe" can be interpreted in a great many different ways, and taken into completely different directions, especially when you consider the fantasy component of the equation.

Compare something like Dark Albion from the Pundit with the Mediaeval Eurth I brainstormed about some time ago, which incidentally is based on the very same rough time period (it's much more of a brainstorm there and evolved since, but you'll get the gist of it hopefully). These are different settings. Some of the feel is the same, but Pundit's idea is by nature focused on Albion, while mine was focused on France. The tone of the "grit" of the setting is different, the assumptions are different, and that leads to vastly different game environments based on the same real historical period.

And what if you wanted to make a dark gritty medieval setting for your game without it being based on Europe, geographically or historically, at all? You could possibly do that. Why not show examples of those as well?

There's your answer, IMO.

ZWEIHÄNDER

#22
July 17, 2012, 02:47:08 PM Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 03:12:36 PM by ZWEIHÄNDER
Quote from: The Traveller;561126Why would I play this rather than Warhammer in a different setting, out of curiosity?

Sorry I missed this one.

I'll address the question from a mechanics perspective first:

The skill and characteristic distributions and skill/talent choices in Warhammer 2e are horribly, HORRIBLY awry mathematically. The development team assigned what they "felt right" (their words, not mine). While this works fine during the first career, the math begins to rear its ugly head around second and third careers.

Before ZWEIHÄNDER's development even started, I mapped out over 70% of WFRP 2e's careers with characteristic distributions, skills and talents in Google docs. It was a labor of love for me, as I love to dissect and understand the unified mechanics behind RPGs. I then created matching pivot tables to see what the results would look like when paired with their recommended career advances. It was ugly.

We experienced this same issue around the game table amongst two different gaming groups that made it to their third career. The distributions were all over the place; we had characters who were melee monsters at first career suddenly trumped by ranged-based careers using melee weapons in second and third careers. You need not look any further than the Roadwarden/Enforcer/Witchhunter and the Hunter/Targeteer/Champion career paths to understand one of many examples where the math was wrong. I understand that no game can be "truly balanced" (and when it is balanced, it looks like D&D 4e). But the choice selections were all effed up.

From a creative standpoint:

Warhammer 2E is essentially D&D 3E. Have you checked out Small But Vicious Dog? The author makes a number of amusing (and poignant) observations about the similarities between the two. I highly recommend checking out Chris Hogan's 32 page kitbash for Warhammer: http://vaultsofnagoh.blogspot.com/2011/07/small-but-vicious-dog-steals-hearts.html

Warhammer has a lot to offer, but its strengths don't derive from the system. It comes from its setting. My opinion is that I could make a better system, and then players can decide what setting to apply it to. In truth, ZWEIHÄNDER wasn't even meant to be released to the public - it was designed for my homebrew. It wasn't until I realized how incredibly easy it is to self-publish that I decided to gauge public interest. Long story short, there's room for another niche RPG and I dare say that this would be the first Warhammer "retroclone" ever brought to print. Although, I prefer to call it a loveletter, because I don't emulate the stuff I felt systematically 1e and 2e did wrong.
No thanks.

The Traveller

#23
July 17, 2012, 03:15:20 PM
Interesting, so your system makes all career advancements equally powerful?
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

ZWEIHÄNDER

#24
July 17, 2012, 03:38:32 PM Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 03:40:54 PM by ZWEIHÄNDER
Quote from: The Traveller;561151Interesting, so your system makes all career advancements equally powerful?

Each profession in ZWEIHÄNDER receives the same # of choices for characteristic bumps, skills and skill traits. It's these choices that distinguish professions from one another.

Technically, there aren't any "advanced" professions. Your profession selection during your Basic Tier defines who you've been for most of your life and your basic capabilities, but as you move through the Intermediate Tier and Advanced Tier, you grow in whatever direction you wish by selecting other skills, skill traits and characteristic bumps that reflects how your character has grown. For instance, you may have started out as a Peasant, but your skill and skill trait choices during Intermediate and Advanced Tier reflect what you become (thus replacing the idea of second and third careers in WFRP). All options are open and your choices are virtually limitless. It really depends on how you the player want to tailor your character given the narrative and campaign arc. The story should guide your individual choices, instead of having to adhere to one specific career throughout the story.

It sounds sort of complicated, but exceedingly simple in application. I plan to release something to the public officially next week on professional growth.
No thanks.
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