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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 153187 times)

3catcircus

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3705 on: January 14, 2022, 11:12:26 AM »
This is what is happening in many places. Let's say they have 100 available beds, but only enough staff for 50 beds.  They can declare (and several have done so) themselves to be over capacity with 51 patients occupying beds. 

This is why you can't trust anything coming from hospital administrators without seeing it for yourself.

We have situations where they've fired unvaccinated nurses and doctors while simultaneously ordering vaccinated but infected ones to come back to work *while still contagious*.  Meanwhile all of those fired nurses and doctors are making 2x, 3x, or more salary by being traveling medical practitioners - either going elsewhere or actually being contracted by the hospital that fired them - as independent contractors, they don't have to be vaccinated because they're not employees...

When you say "we" here, 3catcircus, do you also work in health care and saw this yourself? If so, where do you work? If not, what is your source?

I don't doubt that dumb shit has happened. The question is what is the norm? I don't have first-hand knowledge, but people I know in health care seem to think it's roughly real. I'll buy that mainstream liberal-leaning media is biased, but even if I'm reading on Newsmax, I see stuff about hospitals being overwhelmed by the Omicron surge.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-hospital/2022/01/07/id/1051414/

CNN (lack of staff resulting in inability to use all their beds):

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

Yahoo (sick healthcare workers ordered back to work):

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-reeling-california-tells-covid-130036030.html

travelnursing.org (job opps for traveling nurses):

https://www.travelnursing.org/covid-updates-for-travel-nurses-january-5-2022/

CBS News (no vaccine required to be hired as a nurse).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nebraska-job-ad-nurses-no-vaccination-requirement/
My hospital just opened 3 new floors on a tower, so 120 new inpatient beds. We've been trying to hire staff for the past year and we still only have about 1/3 what we need for the new beds (many new hires we redirected to cover gaps in other units) and even with traveling nurses, we can only staff 2/3 of those beds right now.

Right. The question is if your hospital will report over capacity if they put more bodies in beds than they have staff for, or only if they start stacking them in hallway gurneys because every other bed in an actual room is full.

Who knows if it is hospital administrators being disengenuous or if the media is (as is typical) not reporting factual information.
Hospitals don't choose which statistics to report or how they do so, they report them in the format they are told to do so by CMS and other authorities. This might be in terms of licensed beds, operational beds, or staffed beds.

Hallway beds are not an inpatient thing, they exist in the EDs d/t the requirements of EMTALA that no patient seeking emergent care be turned away until it can be determined that they no longer have an emergent condition (or that they never did).

Your "who knows" line is the kind of bullshit that doesn't help at all because it implies that nobody knows. I'm telling you facts from within the system and you're still going with "who knows" kind of shit. I know, and so do many others workign in healthcare.

If you're not in hospital administration and you don't think they would spin the numbers to fit a narrative, you're a fool.

Here's numbers from HHS... doesn't look like they're in a crisis at all.
Well, I have been in hospital administration,  and while I'm not at present, I have access to internal stats and know full well how to follow them. The hospitals don't decide how to "spin the numbers," that's the decision of the organizations requesting the data.

What is the point of your screenshots? The current surge isn't impacting inpatient (including ICU) beds nearly as much as its impacting ED access by flooding triage with huge waves of "chaff" (largely asymptomatic individuals demanding testing or individuals with minor symptoms believing they need emergent treatment). I've discussed this in several previous posts over the last few weeks.

You answered your own question...  All these panicky brainwashed morons sitting up at the ER demanding a covid test to "prove" they're not infected or because they've been brainwashed to think "I've got a runny nose - I *must* have vivid covid and a covid infection = murderdeathkill" need to be summarily triaged back into the parking lot.  This behavior is *exactly* mass formation psychosis, and the media will happily report this mass of perfectly healthy fools as "overwhelming" the hospitals, in conjunction with twisting "well, we're at 110% capacity because we're understaffed" to be "See? See?!? all these people with covid have filled up all the hospital beds. They're stacking them like cordwood in the hallways!"

At *no* time in the past have we ever had such clear mental illness on display.  It's always been "hey, I've got a cold, I think?  Oh, I'm running a fever and my body hurts - let me call my doctor.  Yep, your fly test is positive. Take some tamiflu and Tylenol and drink plenty of fluids." The people who go to the hospital are either indigents or, mostly, the feeble sent there by neglectful nursing homes well after they should have when they've already got pneumonia starting to settle into their lungs.

I speak from experience. My mother (suffering from Alzheimer's) was in an assisted living facility with my father. She got a head cold that moved into her chest and she had trouble breathing. She was sent to the hospital a week later ( instead of just being able to call her family doctor and make an appointment as soon as things got worse). Flu test was negative but she has fluid in her lungs. They had to intubate her. Ten days later, when she was taken off the vent (she had a living will instructing no prolonged care in such an event, which they violated despite my father's objections), she died within 2 hours.  She was older (78). She smoked most of her adult life and had COPD. Being an Alzheimer's patient, being placed on a vent always seems to least to a poor outcome.  This happened like 4 years ago. No idea what virus actually caused the infection.  *Those* are the people who need to go to the ER. Not a week after dyspnea. Right away.  The young(er) and healthy (ier) - not so much.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3706 on: January 14, 2022, 01:15:15 PM »
Speaking of old people and nursing homes...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whitmer-admin-undercounted-michigan-nursing-home-covid-deaths

Shut up and die, old people. Clear the way for the New Generation.

If I was Whitmer I'd lawyer up, pronto.


Kiero

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3707 on: January 14, 2022, 01:21:45 PM »
Speaking of old people and nursing homes...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whitmer-admin-undercounted-michigan-nursing-home-covid-deaths

Shut up and die, old people. Clear the way for the New Generation.

If I was Whitmer I'd lawyer up, pronto.

They deployed sedatives in lethal doses to get rid of old people the same as they did here. New York state as well. Probably others.
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Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3708 on: January 14, 2022, 03:43:28 PM »
Speaking of old people and nursing homes...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whitmer-admin-undercounted-michigan-nursing-home-covid-deaths

Shut up and die, old people. Clear the way for the New Generation.

If I was Whitmer I'd lawyer up, pronto.

They deployed sedatives in lethal doses to get rid of old people the same as they did here. New York state as well. Probably others.
Whitmer, Cuomo, Newsom, Murphy, and Wolf are mass murderers because they forced covid-19 positive patients into nursing homes, with very predictable and horrific results.

And people like you are the useful idiots who are providing cover for the Democrats, by helping them conflate those very real and well documented crimes committed in the public eye with sheer unmitigated nonsense like all this crap about secret lethal injections.

Shasarak

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3709 on: January 14, 2022, 06:09:39 PM »
Speaking of old people and nursing homes...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whitmer-admin-undercounted-michigan-nursing-home-covid-deaths

Shut up and die, old people. Clear the way for the New Generation.

If I was Whitmer I'd lawyer up, pronto.

They deployed sedatives in lethal doses to get rid of old people the same as they did here. New York state as well. Probably others.
Whitmer, Cuomo, Newsom, Murphy, and Wolf are mass murderers because they forced covid-19 positive patients into nursing homes, with very predictable and horrific results.

And people like you are the useful idiots who are providing cover for the Democrats, by helping them conflate those very real and well documented crimes committed in the public eye with sheer unmitigated nonsense like all this crap about secret lethal injections.

Midazolam is probably part of the standard treatment regimen for end of life treatment where you are trying to give symptomatic relief.

Happydaze would probably know more about the SoP. 

I doubt it is "secret" when everyone working in the system knows about it and on the other hand probably seems shocking to people who dont have to deal with terminal patients.
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HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3710 on: January 14, 2022, 06:41:53 PM »
Speaking of old people and nursing homes...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whitmer-admin-undercounted-michigan-nursing-home-covid-deaths

Shut up and die, old people. Clear the way for the New Generation.

If I was Whitmer I'd lawyer up, pronto.

They deployed sedatives in lethal doses to get rid of old people the same as they did here. New York state as well. Probably others.
Whitmer, Cuomo, Newsom, Murphy, and Wolf are mass murderers because they forced covid-19 positive patients into nursing homes, with very predictable and horrific results.

And people like you are the useful idiots who are providing cover for the Democrats, by helping them conflate those very real and well documented crimes committed in the public eye with sheer unmitigated nonsense like all this crap about secret lethal injections.

Midazolam is probably part of the standard treatment regimen for end of life treatment where you are trying to give symptomatic relief.

Happydaze would probably know more about the SoP. 

I doubt it is "secret" when everyone working in the system knows about it and on the other hand probably seems shocking to people who dont have to deal with terminal patients.
Search for palliative care medications on PubMed and you can find many quality studies. Somehow, the studies Kiero favors don't make the cut.

oggsmash

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3711 on: January 15, 2022, 12:48:40 PM »
  Have Covid now.  I do not want to be insensitive, but if this is the virus that is stopping the world in its tracks....we are all a bunch of pussies.  EXTREMELY mild.
The "Covid now" variant is considerably milder overall than the version we had this past summer. I saw a lot of very sick patients during the Delta surge. Now, not so much, but hot damn does every fool that wakes up with a headache want to be tested over and over again.

  I could have had 3x worse symptoms and to be honest I would have considered it a middling flu.   This was the mildest cold I ever had.  I can not see how it actually hurts anyone who is not otherwise compromised or has some sort of extremely rare vulnerability to it.  I also understand why people pack in to be tested, the media, the government and half the people on the internet keep making this whole thing out to be captain tripps.   At its worst it was the flu, now it is a mild cold.

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3712 on: January 15, 2022, 01:07:33 PM »
  Have Covid now.  I do not want to be insensitive, but if this is the virus that is stopping the world in its tracks....we are all a bunch of pussies.  EXTREMELY mild.
The "Covid now" variant is considerably milder overall than the version we had this past summer. I saw a lot of very sick patients during the Delta surge. Now, not so much, but hot damn does every fool that wakes up with a headache want to be tested over and over again.

  I could have had 3x worse symptoms and to be honest I would have considered it a middling flu.   This was the mildest cold I ever had.  I can not see how it actually hurts anyone who is not otherwise compromised or has some sort of extremely rare vulnerability to it.  I also understand why people pack in to be tested, the media, the government and half the people on the internet keep making this whole thing out to be captain tripps.   At its worst it was the flu, now it is a mild cold.
Your experiences don't apply to everyone though, and the list of conditions that it can exacerbate is long and broad. Moreover, not everyone currently sick can be sure they have Omicron (and most tests don't narrow down which variant is present), which is why presenting symptoms have to guide the treatment. The idiots rushing to the ED for testing without any symptoms are fools, but the ones having stronger symptoms and denying that Covid can be a serious health issue are worse in their own way.

oggsmash

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3713 on: January 15, 2022, 01:23:52 PM »
  Have Covid now.  I do not want to be insensitive, but if this is the virus that is stopping the world in its tracks....we are all a bunch of pussies.  EXTREMELY mild.
The "Covid now" variant is considerably milder overall than the version we had this past summer. I saw a lot of very sick patients during the Delta surge. Now, not so much, but hot damn does every fool that wakes up with a headache want to be tested over and over again.

  I could have had 3x worse symptoms and to be honest I would have considered it a middling flu.   This was the mildest cold I ever had.  I can not see how it actually hurts anyone who is not otherwise compromised or has some sort of extremely rare vulnerability to it.  I also understand why people pack in to be tested, the media, the government and half the people on the internet keep making this whole thing out to be captain tripps.   At its worst it was the flu, now it is a mild cold.
Your experiences don't apply to everyone though, and the list of conditions that it can exacerbate is long and broad. Moreover, not everyone currently sick can be sure they have Omicron (and most tests don't narrow down which variant is present), which is why presenting symptoms have to guide the treatment. The idiots rushing to the ED for testing without any symptoms are fools, but the ones having stronger symptoms and denying that Covid can be a serious health issue are worse in their own way.

  I never said they did.  I have no doubt old people and with other health issues can be compromised.  I just think the constant push for a one fix (a vaccine that does not work) is causing a lot more problems long term than a virus that has an average age of death of around 85.

dkabq

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3714 on: January 16, 2022, 07:14:24 AM »
I know it is Fox News, but I could not find an MSNBC, CNN, etc. article on this -- go figure.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-youtube-kiss-my-apologize-cdc-mask-guidance

This is just another example of why I don't trust St. Fauci, the CDC, or the SCIENCE(tm)! And FWIW, I was making the same arguments regarding mask effectiveness since they started recommending, and then requiring, mask wearing.

3catcircus

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3715 on: January 16, 2022, 10:37:13 AM »
I know it is Fox News, but I could not find an MSNBC, CNN, etc. article on this -- go figure.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-youtube-kiss-my-apologize-cdc-mask-guidance

This is just another example of why I don't trust St. Fauci, the CDC, or the SCIENCE(tm)! And FWIW, I was making the same arguments regarding mask effectiveness since they started recommending, and then requiring, mask wearing.

Here's all you need to know about mask effectiveness:


dkabq

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3716 on: January 16, 2022, 12:26:46 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3717 on: January 16, 2022, 12:39:41 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.
I've worn N95 respirators for 12+ hour days, only removing them for lunch breaks (typically taken outdoors and away from others), and they are somewhat uncomfortable (leaving marks on both cheekbones and frequently along the bridge of the nose too), but I've never found them to interfere with my breathing at all or to significantly "stifle conversation" so long as I slightly increase my volume and project my voice a bit more forcefully. I have noted that some of my softer-spoken colleagues seem hesitant to do this, but when they do, they are easily understood. OTOH, wearing the Honeywell North respirators (full face or half face) often does make one harder to understand, and a PAPR hood is even worse.

dkabq

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3718 on: January 16, 2022, 12:46:51 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.
I've worn N95 respirators for 12+ hour days, only removing them for lunch breaks (typically taken outdoors and away from others), and they are somewhat uncomfortable (leaving marks on both cheekbones and frequently along the bridge of the nose too), but I've never found them to interfere with my breathing at all or to significantly "stifle conversation" so long as I slightly increase my volume and project my voice a bit more forcefully. I have noted that some of my softer-spoken colleagues seem hesitant to do this, but when they do, they are easily understood. OTOH, wearing the Honeywell North respirators (full face or half face) often does make one harder to understand, and a PAPR hood is even worse.

I guess she is more delicate than you.  :)

Also, she is very lean (works out every day, dances ballet on-point). So perhaps for her the mask has to be extra tight to get a proper seal compared to others that have a little more flesh over their cheekbones.

My wife is a quiet talker. And the patients she mainly deals with are elderly and hard of hearing. Add in the effects of strokes, onset dementia, and English as a second language, and conversation is difficult. Obviously YMDV.

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3719 on: January 16, 2022, 01:07:04 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.
I've worn N95 respirators for 12+ hour days, only removing them for lunch breaks (typically taken outdoors and away from others), and they are somewhat uncomfortable (leaving marks on both cheekbones and frequently along the bridge of the nose too), but I've never found them to interfere with my breathing at all or to significantly "stifle conversation" so long as I slightly increase my volume and project my voice a bit more forcefully. I have noted that some of my softer-spoken colleagues seem hesitant to do this, but when they do, they are easily understood. OTOH, wearing the Honeywell North respirators (full face or half face) often does make one harder to understand, and a PAPR hood is even worse.

I guess she is more delicate than you.  :)

Also, she is very lean (works out every day, dances ballet on-point). So perhaps for her the mask has to be extra tight to get a proper seal compared to others that have a little more flesh over their cheekbones.

My wife is a quiet talker. And the patients she mainly deals with are elderly and hard of hearing. Add in the effects of strokes, onset dementia, and English as a second language, and conversation is difficult. Obviously YMDV.
Fitting is always tight, regardless of facial size (and refitting for the masks is necessary for any significant weight gain/loss), but the "quiet talker" is probably the key point of difference here. It also might matter what style of N95 she is using, as some are more comfortable than others even if both are properly fitted. For example, the "duckbills" mark my cheeks more but don't mark the bridge of my nose as much as the "turtleshells". Unfortunately, many don't get much choice of what style they use, as that is generally set by the workplace and the supply chain. Still, if her mask is making it difficult to breathe, then she should consider asking for an alternate make (and make sure HR pushes the workplace to provide it).