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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 341921 times)

jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3240 on: December 03, 2021, 01:02:42 PM »
I was curious about that since you mentioned. From what I see, the geographic prevalence of typhus is higher in Mexico than the U.S. in general.
It was a reference to the tent cities and street defecation so popular, and the ensuring worry about the rise of medieval diseases like typhus. It's like a little corner of the dark ages amidst the stars and sunshine.

OK, I see the intent, but evidently Texas has a higher typhus rate than California, despite California having a higher homelessness rate. So it seems like it's off-base as a critique.

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3241 on: December 03, 2021, 01:10:41 PM »
I was curious about that since you mentioned. From what I see, the geographic prevalence of typhus is higher in Mexico than the U.S. in general.
It was a reference to the tent cities and street defecation so popular, and the ensuring worry about the rise of medieval diseases like typhus. It's like a little corner of the dark ages amidst the stars and sunshine.

OK, I see the intent, but evidently Texas has a higher typhus rate than California, despite California having a higher homelessness rate. So it seems like it's off-base as a critique.
No, it's not. Do a little more research.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Typhus.aspx
Quote
In the United States, most cases occur in Texas, California, and Hawaii, with an average of about 300 cases every year. In California, flea-borne typhus is considered endemic (always present) in areas of Los Angeles and Orange counties, but sometimes cases are also reported from other parts of California.
That's from California's own website. Also, you're confusing overall prevalence in two huge states with the specific public health concerns that were raised about the tent cities, and the worries about the localized spread of diseases that are, for the most part, almost extinct in the US.


jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3242 on: December 03, 2021, 02:19:18 PM »
OK, I see the intent, but evidently Texas has a higher typhus rate than California, despite California having a higher homelessness rate. So it seems like it's off-base as a critique.
No, it's not. Do a little more research.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Typhus.aspx
Quote
In the United States, most cases occur in Texas, California, and Hawaii, with an average of about 300 cases every year. In California, flea-borne typhus is considered endemic (always present) in areas of Los Angeles and Orange counties, but sometimes cases are also reported from other parts of California.
That's from California's own website. Also, you're confusing overall prevalence in two huge states with the specific public health concerns that were raised about the tent cities, and the worries about the localized spread of diseases that are, for the most part, almost extinct in the US.

So putting this together with the Texas health report I mentioned earlier,

Quote
In the United States, Texas reports the highest numbers of flea-borne typhus cases annually. From the 1940s through the early 2000s, highly endemic areas of typhus were limited to the lower Rio Grande Valley and the Coastal Bend area; however in the past 10 years, new areas of endemnicity have emerged in Bexar, Harris, and Travis counties, among others.
Source: https://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/murine_typhus/Flea-borne-Typhus.aspx

it seems like typhus is overall almost extinct, but it is still endemic in two counties in California, plus five or more counties in Texas, and likely in some areas of Hawaii.

You also cited bubonic plague, and I did find a map of plague risk areas in the U.S.:


Source: https://patch.com/california/culvercity/where-expect-plague-united-states-2016-study

The concentration areas are in Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado - along with the northern border of California with Oregon and Utah. I do think this suggests we need to do a better job with public health and disease nationally.

Neither of these singles out California, though.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3243 on: December 03, 2021, 03:22:51 PM »
Mexico is a strange place then, because in Florida we still find flu, RSV, and other respiratory viruses along with a number of other respiratory conditions, both acute and chronic.
At least you don't have to worry about typhus and bubonic plague, like California and other third world countries.

I was curious about that since you mentioned. From what I see, the geographic prevalence of typhus is higher in Mexico than the U.S. in general.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_typhoid_fever
See also: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/typhoid-fever

Within the U.S., I don't see a national distribution map - but this is from a current Texas government report:

Quote
In the United States, Texas reports the highest numbers of flea-borne typhus cases annually. From the 1940s through the early 2000s, highly endemic areas of typhus were limited to the lower Rio Grande Valley and the Coastal Bend area; however in the past 10 years, new areas of endemnicity have emerged in Bexar, Harris, and Travis counties, among others.
Source: https://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/murine_typhus/Flea-borne-Typhus.aspx

That is in absolute numbers rather than rate, so other states may have a higher rate per population - but it implies the rate is less in California which has a higher population.

I might be wrong here but aren't there more than one type of Typhus?

Cuz In México it's something you get from contaminated food/dirty water, etc. That map paints thw whole country the same but cases are concentrated in... You guessed it the poorest communities who have no access to clean water, etc.

While In California all I can find are cases of Flea-Borne Typhus transmited to humans.

On a First world country in it's biggest economy by state, in it's cities.

So comparing that with a shithole country on it's shitiest communities where people live in dirt floor "houses" and have no clean water seems a bit dishonest to me.

Further more, from the second link:

Quote
"Enteric Fever - Typhoid is an acute febrile illness that attacks the gastrointestinal tract caused by the bacteria Salmonella typhi. Without prompt treatment it can cause serious and life-threatening complications. 21.5 million cases are reported annually and it is considered that more than 75% are acquired during the trip. It represents the fifth infectious disease in travelers due to lack of adequate hygiene, it is estimated that there are 1-10 new cases per 100,000 inhabitants worldwide."

Sources:

https://old.com.fundacionio.es/2020/06/22/junio-2020-fiebre-tifoidea-en-mexico-destacan-tamaulipas-y-sinaloa/

http://clinicadeviajero.unam.mx/?p=3237

While in California they are talking of a different type of Typhus, source:

http://www.publichealth.lacounty.gov/acd/vectortyphus.htm
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Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3244 on: December 03, 2021, 03:29:59 PM »
That's a 2016 study. The "medieval plague" worries in California only really popped up in the news in the last couple years. And as I've noted a couple times, it was a reference to public health concerns related to the feces and tent cities. That's different from endemism.

Though another report from CA, this one current (2021), shows some troubling trends:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Flea-borneTyphusCaseCounts.pdf
Part of the spectacular rise since 2008 seems to be related to a change in data collection or recording methods, since they added suspect and probable as well as confirmed cases. But even discounting that, it's still a pretty steep rise until 2018/2019, and then what appears to be an almost complete absence of testing in the covid years. Which is very odd.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3245 on: December 03, 2021, 03:41:51 PM »
That's a 2016 study. The "medieval plague" worries in California only really popped up in the news in the last couple years. And as I've noted a couple times, it was a reference to public health concerns related to the feces and tent cities. That's different from endemism.

Though another report from CA, this one current (2021), shows some troubling trends:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Flea-borneTyphusCaseCounts.pdf
Part of the spectacular rise since 2008 seems to be related to a change in data collection or recording methods, since they added suspect and probable as well as confirmed cases. But even discounting that, it's still a pretty steep rise until 2018/2019, and then what appears to be an almost complete absence of testing in the covid years. Which is very odd.

It's still not the same disease as in México.

Maybe because we don't have such a homless population even in the cities? Nor the feces in the sidewalks* or the rat problem?

*Except for the few homless that do shit wherever and the assholes that don't pick up their dog's feces.

But then again we don't have the very compassionate leftists that instead of allowing lower cost housing allow tent cities and give away "free" hypodermics so the homless can shoot up their drugs. Not even our current El Presidente and the governor of México City (Yes, that's the name of the state, it's retarded) who are both fecking woke commies have gone that low.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Shasarak

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3246 on: December 03, 2021, 04:34:40 PM »
And to think Remaincunts would ridicule Brexiteers for calling the EU the 4th Reich...

For the same reason they get mad when you point out that vaccines are supposed to VACCINATE you against a disease and thus should only need to be taken once.
Like the tetanus vaccination?

Everyone knows that when you get the tetanus vaccination that you can still get tetanus.

It says it right there on the data sheet.
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jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3247 on: December 03, 2021, 04:53:50 PM »
I might be wrong here but aren't there more than one type of Typhus?

Cuz In México it's something you get from contaminated food/dirty water, etc. That map paints thw whole country the same but cases are concentrated in... You guessed it the poorest communities who have no access to clean water, etc.

While In California all I can find are cases of Flea-Borne Typhus transmited to humans.

On a First world country in it's biggest economy by state, in it's cities.

Sorry, my bad. It seems the distinction is that "typhoid fever" is caused by contaminated food and water, which is distinct from "typhus" which is spread by lice, chiggers, and fleas. I had an international comparison of typhoid fever, but compared typhus between U.S. states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhus

https://www.cdc.gov/typhoid-fever/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/typhus/index.html

The international map I posted previously was for typhoid fever. The U.S. cases were typhus - generally murine typhus which is spread by fleas. Still, it's the same type of typhus in both Texas and California, as well as Hawaii. This is an international map of murine typhus from 2011:


Source: https://www.rcpath.org/uploads/assets/d6b53f36-c27b-40d9-ad3e6179201ca87f/Typhus-in-all-its-forms-Dr-Nick-Beeching.pdf

I don't see a more recent map.

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3248 on: December 03, 2021, 05:08:31 PM »
That's a 2016 study. The "medieval plague" worries in California only really popped up in the news in the last couple years. And as I've noted a couple times, it was a reference to public health concerns related to the feces and tent cities. That's different from endemism.

Though another report from CA, this one current (2021), shows some troubling trends:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Flea-borneTyphusCaseCounts.pdf
Part of the spectacular rise since 2008 seems to be related to a change in data collection or recording methods, since they added suspect and probable as well as confirmed cases. But even discounting that, it's still a pretty steep rise until 2018/2019, and then what appears to be an almost complete absence of testing in the covid years. Which is very odd.

It's still not the same disease as in México.
Good catch, I didn't even look at the legend on Kim's map.

For anyone following: Typhus is a disease spread by lice, fleas, gnats, and so on. It's one of the "medieval" disease whose resurgence in California hit the news about two years ago. It's definitely related to the homeless and street shitting problems, and it's concentrated in areas with dense populations and poor hygiene, i.e. cities. Think fever and rash.
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/06/07/return-of-medieval-diseases/

Typhoid fever is a disease related to salmonella, and is spread by contaminated drinking water, and thus it's more common in poor rural areas with poor water treatment. Think Twitte... I mean vomiting and diarrhea. It's not typhus.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3249 on: December 03, 2021, 05:20:39 PM »
I might be wrong here but aren't there more than one type of Typhus?

Cuz In México it's something you get from contaminated food/dirty water, etc. That map paints thw whole country the same but cases are concentrated in... You guessed it the poorest communities who have no access to clean water, etc.

While In California all I can find are cases of Flea-Borne Typhus transmited to humans.

On a First world country in it's biggest economy by state, in it's cities.

Sorry, my bad. It seems the distinction is that "typhoid fever" is caused by contaminated food and water, which is distinct from "typhus" which is spread by lice, chiggers, and fleas. I had an international comparison of typhoid fever, but compared typhus between U.S. states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhus

https://www.cdc.gov/typhoid-fever/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/typhus/index.html

The international map I posted previously was for typhoid fever. The U.S. cases were typhus - generally murine typhus which is spread by fleas. Still, it's the same type of typhus in both Texas and California, as well as Hawaii. This is an international map of murine typhus from 2011:


Source: https://www.rcpath.org/uploads/assets/d6b53f36-c27b-40d9-ad3e6179201ca87f/Typhus-in-all-its-forms-Dr-Nick-Beeching.pdf

I don't see a more recent map.

I would love to see the data used to make that map, I can't find ANY news of black plague in México. Doesn't mean they don't exist, just I haven't been able to find them.

It's not in the PDF, it doesn't give data per country/year and I would also love to see WHERE in México those cases were.

Wonder if they aren't also mostly in  places where people "live" in dirt floor "houses" where the dog/cat can leavw some fleas that later will bite a human?

In my GreatUncle's house in Campeche this was the case, dirt floor, dogs, hammocks, yours trully bitten by fecking fleas. Still I got nothing but the sting and the rash, no disease connected with it and got bitten several times.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3250 on: December 03, 2021, 05:22:37 PM »
That's a 2016 study. The "medieval plague" worries in California only really popped up in the news in the last couple years. And as I've noted a couple times, it was a reference to public health concerns related to the feces and tent cities. That's different from endemism.

Though another report from CA, this one current (2021), shows some troubling trends:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Flea-borneTyphusCaseCounts.pdf
Part of the spectacular rise since 2008 seems to be related to a change in data collection or recording methods, since they added suspect and probable as well as confirmed cases. But even discounting that, it's still a pretty steep rise until 2018/2019, and then what appears to be an almost complete absence of testing in the covid years. Which is very odd.

It's still not the same disease as in México.
Good catch, I didn't even look at the legend on Kim's map.

For anyone following: Typhus is a disease spread by lice, fleas, gnats, and so on. It's one of the "medieval" disease whose resurgence in California hit the news about two years ago. It's definitely related to the homeless and street shitting problems, and it's concentrated in areas with dense populations and poor hygiene, i.e. cities. Think fever and rash.
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/06/07/return-of-medieval-diseases/

Typhoid fever is a disease related to salmonella, and is spread by contaminated drinking water, and thus it's more common in poor rural areas with poor water treatment. Think Twitte... I mean vomiting and diarrhea. It's not typhus.

The new map he posted is from 2011, I can't find any confirmation elsewhere mentioning Black Plague in México, think the most recent is from beginings of the 20th century.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3251 on: December 03, 2021, 05:37:30 PM »
That's a 2016 study. The "medieval plague" worries in California only really popped up in the news in the last couple years. And as I've noted a couple times, it was a reference to public health concerns related to the feces and tent cities. That's different from endemism.

As far as I can see from search, there was one human plague case in California in 2020 which was the first in five years. More recently, there was one in Colorado and one in Wyoming as well.

(Aug 2020) https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/california-confirms-first-human-case-bubonic-plague-5-years-what-n1237306
(July 2021) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/07/23/colorado-plague-child-death-reported-diseased-animals-found/8073521002/
(Sep 2021) https://www.ktvq.com/news/local-news/wyoming-reports-rare-case-of-human-pneumonic-plague


Though another report from CA, this one current (2021), shows some troubling trends:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/Flea-borneTyphusCaseCounts.pdf
Part of the spectacular rise since 2008 seems to be related to a change in data collection or recording methods, since they added suspect and probable as well as confirmed cases. But even discounting that, it's still a pretty steep rise until 2018/2019, and then what appears to be an almost complete absence of testing in the covid years. Which is very odd.

I'm not saying typhus is not a problem, but you're singling out California, when Texas has a much higher rate. Here are the numbers from Texas compared to the numbers from California from your source linked above:

2016: Texas 364, California 103
2017: Texas 519, California 101
2018: Texas 738, California 174
2019: Texas 591, California 145
2020: Texas ??, California 137
2021: Texas ??, California 71

The numbers for Texas are from this report: https://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/typhus/Typhus-2008-2019.pdf

The Texas cases follow a similar pattern peaking in 2018 and decreasing in 2019.

jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3252 on: December 03, 2021, 05:42:08 PM »
accidental double-post

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3253 on: December 03, 2021, 07:17:48 PM »
I'm not saying typhus is not a problem, but you're singling out California, when Texas has a much higher rate. Here are the numbers from Texas compared to the numbers from California from your source linked above:
And you're ignoring everything I said.

I'm pointing out specific issues raised by specific public health authorities in specific areas. 300 cases spread over hundreds and hundreds of miles isn't an epidemic or a resurgence. It's a minor, recurrent, perhaps endemic problem that can mostly be dealt with as a series of isolated cases. That has absolutely nothing to do with concerns about an outbreak in a small handful of densely packed urban areas where public officials have caused a public health disaster, uncontrolled spread would be very dangerous, and where a number of cases were found.
 
You're being deliberately obtuse and keep bringing up Texas in an attempt at deflection.

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