Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Ratman_tf]

In other news, the junta declares 'fuck your freedoms'.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-executive-branch-18fb12993f05be13bf760946a6fb89be

I guess the economy crashing is due to those dirty wreckers kulaks unvaccinated, right?

A fine time to remind everyone that OSHA disourages reporting of vaccine side effects.

DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency's position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs

[Ghostmaker]

I would like to remind all Bidenharris cocksuckers present that back in July, Jen 'Raggedy Ann' Psaki stated 'a vaccine mandate is not the government's role'. And that back in December, Biden insisted that vaccination would not be mandatory.

And yet, here we are. You wanted this.

[Squidi]

In other news, the junta declares 'fuck your freedoms'.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-executive-branch-18fb12993f05be13bf760946a6fb89be

I guess the economy crashing is due to those dirty wreckers kulaks unvaccinated, right?

Remember when the Khmer Rouge was going around killing people with glasses? Man, that was kind of silly... Not sure why I thought of that...

I would like to remind all Bidenharris cocksuckers present that back in July, Jen 'Raggedy Ann' Psaki stated 'a vaccine mandate is not the government's role'. And that back in December, Biden insisted that vaccination would not be mandatory.

A quote I've always liked is, "if they didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all".

[Shasarak]

You should factor in that hospitals have often expanded their ICUs into other care areas and then are still at/near capacity.  One campus I work started with a 20-bed ICU that took over another 20 beds from an adjacent surgical unit and had an average daily census of 36 (with roughly 2/3 being Covid patients) in August. You can view that as being at 90% capacity, but compared to the hospital's standard it's really 180% capacity.

I think that you are forgetting that Hospitals are not allowed to adjust to situations by increasing their capacities when they have the more sensible option of just refusing to treat patients and letting people die in the parking lots.

[Zelen]

Oh look, a TOTALLY FABRICATED STAT. Israel is at 61% fully vaccinated you fucking tool (though they say it's 58% and some triple doses were being counted as unique individuals). They were doing great, and then it leveled off as the Orthodox and the Palestinian populations declined the vaccine in high numbers, and have stagnated just over 60% for a while now. WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE SPIKING. They used to be one of the most vaccinated nations, but now they're very middle of the road. Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy, UK, Canada, Ireland, Belgium, Uruguay, Iceland, Denmark, Spain, etc. are all ahead of them now.

60% figure is misleading. It's over 80% of their adult population. Generally speaking the adult population figures are used since younger people are at such a statistically miniscule risk from SarsCov-2.

It's unclear whether the 80% figure is including naturally immune people. Israel's "Green Pass" system reportedly does recognize natural immunity, although it's not clear how that aligns with ongoing efforts at 3rd, 4th... Xth boosters. Honestly the failure to recognize natural immunity is probably one of the biggest red flags about the US's own failure-in-progress.

[dkabq]

Oh look, a TOTALLY FABRICATED STAT. Israel is at 61% fully vaccinated you fucking tool (though they say it's 58% and some triple doses were being counted as unique individuals). They were doing great, and then it leveled off as the Orthodox and the Palestinian populations declined the vaccine in high numbers, and have stagnated just over 60% for a while now. WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE SPIKING. They used to be one of the most vaccinated nations, but now they're very middle of the road. Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy, UK, Canada, Ireland, Belgium, Uruguay, Iceland, Denmark, Spain, etc. are all ahead of them now.

60% figure is misleading. It's over 80% of their adult population. Generally speaking the adult population figures are used since younger people are at such a statistically miniscule risk from SarsCov-2.

It's unclear whether the 80% figure is including naturally immune people. Israel's "Green Pass" system reportedly does recognize natural immunity, although it's not clear how that aligns with ongoing efforts at 3rd, 4th... Xth boosters. Honestly the failure to recognize natural immunity is probably one of the biggest red flags about the US's own failure-in-progress.

Here's what NPR/Goats & Soda say:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

"The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated. But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine. That means only 58% of Israel's total citizenry is fully vaccinated. Experts say that's not nearly high enough."

[HappyDaze]

You know what I do not see mentioned, ever?  How we are letting hordes of people into the country with no idea as to how vaccinated they are.

The how isn't the question. The question is the why.

Particularly as there's been implication that such people have been deliberately exposed to Covid and then dumped in, how shall we say, more fractious states that aren't inclined to bow their heads to D.C.

Deliberately exposed to Covid? Where do you get these nonsensical conspiracy theories?

It must be nice to have celery in your head instead of braincells. Do the math:

The U.S. federal authorities are not quarantining, isolating, or otherwise handling the ridiculous surge of illegal aliens coming across the southern border with any kind of skill. In fact, most are being held in conditions worse than the ones the left castigated Trump over (despite those 'cages' being established during the Obama years. Oops).

Rather, such persons are being loaded onto transports -- in close quarters -- and shipped to various areas. Pretty certain being confined within a vehicle with a Covid-positive would be an easy way to be exposed. Doesn't matter if they're shipped an hour away or across country (there have been some interesting spikes in Covid though).

And if you say 'they couldn't know', then just shoot yourself now, you moron, because you'd be more useful as an organ donor than a taxpayer. This isn't rocket science.

Never attribute to a conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence, laziness and CYA.

There's a border crisis they want to pretend doesn't exist, so they're trying to disguise the number of immigrants by dispersing them quickly and widely. Sure it, could spread covid. But that's incidental, and the most it proves is they don't care that much about spreading covid, not that there was some kind of plot.

*shrug*

Whether it's malice or incompetence is irrelevant.

The damage is still being done.

You used the word "deliberately" but now say that's unimportant, yet your entire argument then falls apart just like all the other conspiracy theories you peddle.

Ultimately, the results are what matter. I may think it's deliberate; Pat disagrees. I don't think it's worth getting into a verbal fistfight with Pat over.

You, on the other hand, should kill yourself. Immediately.

In other news, the junta declares 'fuck your freedoms'.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-executive-branch-18fb12993f05be13bf760946a6fb89be

I guess the economy crashing is due to those dirty wreckers kulaks unvaccinated, right?

You're not going to get your wish.

[Zelen]

Boys aged 12-15 have 1/6200 chance of cardiac AE after injection


Risk of this one type of side effect is statistically greater than the risk of hospitalization from SarsCov-2.

[Pat]

We've kinda proven those points out over time. We did the whole "You can go unmasked if you're vaccinated as long as the unvaccinated wear masks" based on the honors system and it was a total train wreck with everyone going maskless because that's how our society works these days. So here we are, with the vaccinated having to wear masks because the unvaccinated won't unless everyone has to.

Ah yes, identify and blame some Other. It's their fault.

I'm currently reading Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism. The parallels are striking.

Cut the crap. Do you think the unvaccinated wear a mask when they see many other people not wearing a mask? Do you think the honor system was working or not?

I don't think masks work. The studies have been very conclusive that the effect is minimal to non-existent, and the last one you cited with a positive effect has a number of methodological problems.

The only reason for the masks is to exert control by creating a climate of fear, and providing an enemy to blame. Which is why I'm bringing up parallels in the writing of authors like Arendt and Hoffer, who dissected the nature of fanatical mass movements and the rise of totalitarianism, because these the techniques used.

Do you think the unvaccinated wear a mask when they see many other people not wearing a mask? Do you think the honor system was working or not?

I don't think masks work.

[Pat]

ICUs being full is an issue for everyone. You too, internet badass, if you get in a car accident or fall off a ladder.

ICU's are almost always near capacity at normal times because the bean counters don't want a bunch of beds sitting empty and costing them money. There are whole studies done before hospitals even break ground to figure out what a normal number of patients at any one time will be. If a Hospital is at 90-95% capacity; that's NORMAL.

ICU capacity hasn't been running anything close to "normal" for the entire pandemic. There are many places right now which have locked down non-essential surgeries, which has a cascade effect of course because non-essential doesn't mean "increased risk of death if I don't get this done" it just means "not dying right this moment if you don't get it". If you have evidence the ICUs are not running at much worse capacity during the pandemic let's see it. I strongly suspect it's just some bullshit spin put on something to justify your world view. 

[citation needed]

All the hospitals near me were furloughing medical workers during the lockdowns because the hospitals were empty. There was some activity at the peak and now, but overall they were struggling.

This is just through June 2020:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/49-hospitals-furloughing-workers-in-response-to-covid-19.html
It doesn't breakdown ICU vs. non-ICU, but the number of covid patients being hospitalized was low for most of the period, as well. So you're making an outrageous assertion and demanding citations while not providing any sources supporting your wild claims.

[Pat]

I would like to remind all Bidenharris cocksuckers present that back in July, Jen 'Raggedy Ann' Psaki stated 'a vaccine mandate is not the government's role'. And that back in December, Biden insisted that vaccination would not be mandatory.

And yet, here we are. You wanted this.

To be fair, literally everyone knew they were lying.

[HappyDaze]

ICUs being full is an issue for everyone. You too, internet badass, if you get in a car accident or fall off a ladder.

ICU's are almost always near capacity at normal times because the bean counters don't want a bunch of beds sitting empty and costing them money. There are whole studies done before hospitals even break ground to figure out what a normal number of patients at any one time will be. If a Hospital is at 90-95% capacity; that's NORMAL.

ICU capacity hasn't been running anything close to "normal" for the entire pandemic. There are many places right now which have locked down non-essential surgeries, which has a cascade effect of course because non-essential doesn't mean "increased risk of death if I don't get this done" it just means "not dying right this moment if you don't get it". If you have evidence the ICUs are not running at much worse capacity during the pandemic let's see it. I strongly suspect it's just some bullshit spin put on something to justify your world view. 

[citation needed]

All the hospitals near me were furloughing medical workers during the lockdowns because the hospitals were empty. There was some activity at the peak and now, but overall they were struggling.

This is just through June 2020:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/49-hospitals-furloughing-workers-in-response-to-covid-19.html
It doesn't breakdown ICU vs. non-ICU, but the number of covid patients being hospitalized was low for most of the period, as well. So you're making an outrageous assertion and demanding citations while not providing any sources supporting your wild claims.

Healthcare furloughs are focused on non-essential personnel. This includes a lot of different roles, but not ICU nurses. It might include ancillary staff on ICUs (with the nurses expected to pick up extra duties).

[Zelen]

Move from the Biden administration is definitely a sign of their own (well-founded IMO) lack-of-confidence in the injections.

Timing of announcing this now, as southern states are beyond the crest of their seasonal peak, is to try and frame the seasonal winter surge that we'll see in the north, etc. Smart politically to get ahead of the game. Also the timing of the mandate taking effect in mid-late November is smart as well. Likely to be the time of steep inclination of case numbers, when we can guess the media hysteria will be at its peak and they'll have the most Us vs. Them mentality when they try to blame the seasonal virus spread on unvaccinated people.

[Mistwell]

When everyone is wearing a mask the unvaccinated also tend to wear a mask. I think it's like everything else in life. If peer pressure is applied, most people do that thing.

So, why does peer pressure work on wearing a mask, but fails on vaccines?

I don't think it does? Peers are not applying peer pressure in a lot of places I assume is the issue. Democrats appear to be pressuring Democrats to get vaccinated, and Republicans appear to be pressuring Republicans to be suspect of the vaccine. Democrats are mocking Republicans about vaccinations, which entrenches their position to be suspicious. Republicans are mocking Democrats about being slaves to the Government which just entrenches their position. As long as vaccinations are no a visible thing which everyone seems to have around you (like a mask) the peer pressure is from your political peers and not general public peers.

[FelixGamingX1]

When everyone is wearing a mask the unvaccinated also tend to wear a mask. I think it's like everything else in life. If peer pressure is applied, most people do that thing.

So, why does peer pressure work on wearing a mask, but fails on vaccines?

I don't think it does? Peers are not applying peer pressure in a lot of places I assume is the issue. Democrats appear to be pressuring Democrats to get vaccinated, and Republicans appear to be pressuring Republicans to be suspect of the vaccine.

Honestly hate the fact wearing masks was politicized by the left and ridiculed by the right. Common sense, remains common sense. Wearing a mask certainly has perks. They may not be what they're all cracked up to be, still. In a time where we are supposed to be united we are divided and distracted by things that shouldn't be a distraction in the first place. First world problems, I guess.