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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 82597 times)

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2040 on: August 01, 2021, 01:13:56 AM »
If you don’t want to either vaccinate or wear a mask because you feel you know better than science

I am vaccinated and wear a mask when requested but:

Science (TM) isn't magic nor is it a person, nor is it one consensus or opinion. There have been many differing opinions and perspectives on the Science (TM). An appeal to Science (TM) is a very faulty view of how Science (TM) works.

Even Scientists, holy speakers of the word of the Science (TM) have baises, make mistakes and can be swayed by the public opinion of common bodies and media and personal pressure.
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HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2041 on: August 01, 2021, 01:20:14 AM »
It's depressing to me to see how quickly some businesses here are starting to post 'masks required' signs again. Ignored one just last night :/

What's interesting this time, is by doing that, they're violating state law. I hope the state and the governor here actually have the courage to follow through on enforcing the laws they passed forbidding vaccine or mask mandates, because I'm looking forward to seeing a few of these fascists prosecuted for pulling their little tin-pot dictator routines :)
Private businesses that require masks within their wall are violating what state law? A business can post a dress code if it wishes, and if they want to specify the use of "facial wear" they can do so. You're not having any rights violated if you are barred entry because you choose not to follow their dress code.

Zelen

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2042 on: August 01, 2021, 01:33:13 AM »
Which states? Based on what I have read, most of the anti-Mask & anti-Proof-of-Submission legislation is tissue paper. I have very little faith in state governments taking any meaningful action against these types of measures -- At least for now. It's possible that state-level Republican parties become more hard-line on this stance, but that'll take at least one election cycle (which is pretty far away if we consider time to actually draft and pass laws).

The most important thing is just the social aspect in the first place. If going into the grocery store like a normal human being means that you get accosted by vocal science deniers, then it's going to be really grim regardless of legality.

yancy

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2043 on: August 01, 2021, 01:49:42 AM »
Private businesses that require masks within their wall are violating what state law?

Who said it was a private business? I was perhaps a bit vague, I have seen some of them posting signs, but in this case it was a public library, and whatever mask mandate they're attempting to enforce is almost certainly in violation of the law.

Many of the businesses posting mask requirements here have been doing it based on the notion that some authority is requiring it, usually the city, and those city requirements are now in violation of state law.

So while you're correct that individual private businesses *might* get all dictatorial and insane about masks because they really want to, I doubt many of them are likely to do that.

In this case, I merely ignored the sign and wandered around maskless, and nobody called me on it, perhaps because they know what they're attempting to do is illegal.
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if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

yancy

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2044 on: August 01, 2021, 02:06:03 AM »
Which states? Based on what I have read, most of the anti-Mask & anti-Proof-of-Submission legislation is tissue paper. I have very little faith in state governments taking any meaningful action against these types of measures -- At least for now. It's possible that state-level Republican parties become more hard-line on this stance, but that'll take at least one election cycle (which is pretty far away if we consider time to actually draft and pass laws).

The most important thing is just the social aspect in the first place. If going into the grocery store like a normal human being means that you get accosted by vocal science deniers, then it's going to be really grim regardless of legality.

Yeah, we'll see how it goes, but it is at least a little encouraging to see legal opposition to this nonsense on the state level, as well as a measure of moral support. Last night was the first time I saw any signs of the bullshit starting up again; I'll be curious to see what I encounter when I go shopping at more places during the week.
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if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

SonTodoGato

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2045 on: August 01, 2021, 10:32:46 AM »
How is your country handling the whole deal?

Here in Argentina:

More than a 100,000 deaths.

Higher death rate than countries who did little to no quarantine.

Longest quarantine in the world

Ubiquitous use of masks here in the city (not so much in the provinces, though)

A province went full Stalin, locking up the ill and going full police brutality. Still has more deaths than other provinces which didn't.

Politicians break the protocols often

For some reason, the government didn't allow Pfizer and Moderna into the country, claiming they were demanding sovereignty over our glaciers and other natural resources (which nobody believes). Through a decree, they were finally allowed.

High vaccine acceptance, apparently. Yay.

Left-wing marches are totally okay, though.

The government spent millions of pesos in wooden penises for sex ed., a stadium in a poor province with 40% of its population without access to drinking water, furniture, vehicles and catering for the "ministry of women, gender and diversity" (I shit you not that's the actual name), painting fences, etc.

We get the countries we deserve as a society. Americans stood up from the very beginning. Argentina, in general, simply complied.

strcondex18cha3

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2046 on: August 01, 2021, 11:33:07 AM »
In my country, like pretty much everywhere in the west, it further splintered society into two dumb factions.
Most are either in the sheeple camp ... Neighbours told us literally we should obey the bureaucracy and put our trust in the gov
Or they are in total denier mode.

How about: it's been overblown and the most rational thing would be to accept a very slight deathbulge.
Vaccines seem to be shit - big surprise, as they were rushed and try to combat a rapidly mutating flu virus.
This happens when your countries are run by women and foreigners.

Zelen

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2047 on: August 01, 2021, 11:41:17 AM »
We get the countries we deserve as a society. Americans stood up from the very beginning. Argentina, in general, simply complied.

Funny this perspective, because right now other countries are doing a much better job at standing up than America. In France and Germany, there are protests with hundreds of thousands if not millions protesting. In Australia they just called out the army to crack skulls of any people who dare protest a lockdown after ... 13 octagenarian & nonagenarians died over a few weeks.

All over the world, it's amazing how the narrative shifts.

  • Is your movement pro-establishment astroturf? - If so, public demonstrations are safe. In fact, they are necessary and important! Covid fears your noble cause and retreats from your honorable demonstration of virtue
  • Is your movement anti-establishment populism? - If so, you are a dangerous extremist. Public demonstrations are dangerous superspreader events that lead to millions of deaths and if those deaths don't materialize then assuredly you've caused much invisible suffering with long-Covid and all the strain on the healthcare system. The establishment cares about your health, that's why the military will be dispatched to literally beat your head in, grapple you to the ground, and throw you in a holding pen with hundreds of others so you don't spread the killer virus.

The system reveals it has no legitimacy and no morality, but sadly many people refuse to see that the concern is power, not saving lives.

FelixGamingX1

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2048 on: August 01, 2021, 12:02:10 PM »
Wishing everyone lots of health in the coming days. Follow science, not stupid. I yield.
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SonTodoGato

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2049 on: August 01, 2021, 12:24:37 PM »
We get the countries we deserve as a society. Americans stood up from the very beginning. Argentina, in general, simply complied.

Funny this perspective, because right now other countries are doing a much better job at standing up than America. In France and Germany, there are protests with hundreds of thousands if not millions protesting. In Australia they just called out the army to crack skulls of any people who dare protest a lockdown after ... 13 octagenarian & nonagenarians died over a few weeks.

All over the world, it's amazing how the narrative shifts.

  • Is your movement pro-establishment astroturf? - If so, public demonstrations are safe. In fact, they are necessary and important! Covid fears your noble cause and retreats from your honorable demonstration of virtue
  • Is your movement anti-establishment populism? - If so, you are a dangerous extremist. Public demonstrations are dangerous superspreader events that lead to millions of deaths and if those deaths don't materialize then assuredly you've caused much invisible suffering with long-Covid and all the strain on the healthcare system. The establishment cares about your health, that's why the military will be dispatched to literally beat your head in, grapple you to the ground, and throw you in a holding pen with hundreds of others so you don't spread the killer virus.

The system reveals it has no legitimacy and no morality, but sadly many people refuse to see that the concern is power, not saving lives.

Do you have a source on that? I tried googling the Australian cases but nothing showed up. Glad to see the French and the German are still awake. Maybe this will be last straw and people will regain their dignity and set things in order; end the EU, kick Merkel out, kick migrants out, stop the massive waves of diversity, cut the marxist propaganda and return to a traditional, normal and free Europe.

This is why you need guns; so you don't end up taking tear gas because the government wants to inject you with something for your safety. You don't see such extremes in America because they know people will fight back. While the "German" and "French" governments are literally sending the cops on their people, America has to offer laughable incentives.

Over here, my people just slumber. We've been demoralized after decades and decades of blatant corruption and clown world. We just take it for granted, so we don't expect much change. The only criticisms are the mishandling of the pandemic, the length of the quarantine and the absence of vaccines. Should there be a mandatory vaccination program, I doubt people would resist. All the sheeple would suddenly turn into state agents because "you're gonna kill us all !!!!". Funny how countries with small vaccination percentages are not dying by the hundred thousands...

BTW, I noticed how the word populist carries a different meaning in English. In Spanish, populism is a demagogic movement which seeks to destroy or modify the political institutions for its own perpetuation; wokeism is populism. It's demagoguery that seeks to abolish the republic and bend laws for its purposes. In English, populism means sort of like a grassroots movement which represents the sentiments and interests of the common folk/middle class.

SonTodoGato

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2050 on: August 01, 2021, 12:44:54 PM »
Wishing everyone lots of health in the coming days. Follow science, not stupid. I yield.

How would you know what "Science" is? You just trust whatever consensus they come up with... until they find out they got it wrong.

You think they didn't know that variants would appear? Do you really think they thought the virus would just go away? Did you really think they didn't know they would need another dose of the vaccine every year to boost your immunity for years and years? Any virologist knows how it is; the virus would never go away, with or without taking the sacrament of vaccinations (that is why chickenpox, the flu, measles, etc. didn't disappear in spite of having most of the population vaccinated).

But they didn't give you the full picture in the media, did they? They told you it was just 15 days, and slowly revealed to you the actual condition. Their plan has always been this, but they wanted to boil the frog slowly, letting the fish settle in the fishbowl because otherwise people would resist. Did the media ever mention the fraud charges that J&J and Pfizer are guilty of? Or did they stay casually silent on that?

Science is going through a crisis of replicability and publication bias; it's findings cannot be considered true because they can't be replicated and positive findings attract more people (and more funds) than negative or inconclusive ones.

People just don't want to acknowledge the fact that science has been co-opted by politics and lobbyists, the politicians are not interested in the public good and that conspiracies are real. Fear is the tool through which they manipulate people into compliance. Wilfull ignorance is what keeps people prisoner.

Zelen

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2051 on: August 01, 2021, 12:48:49 PM »
Do you have a source on that? I tried googling the Australian cases but nothing showed up.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sydney-under-strict-new-lockdown-rules-cases-soar-2021-07-29/
Quote
Since then, Australia's biggest city has reported 13 deaths.

On Friday, Sydney entered its sixth week of a nine-week lockdown with 170 new cases, down from a record 239 a day earlier. Of the new cases, at least 42 spent time in the community while infectious.

I don't have the specific data on these 13 people, but I did find this site which has a lot of the data. Here's a graph of the age breakdown:



80 - 90 year olds are dying, better turn the country into a dystopian police state.


Quote
BTW, I noticed how the word populist carries a different meaning in English. In Spanish, populism is a demagogic movement which seeks to destroy or modify the political institutions for its own perpetuation; wokeism is populism. It's demagoguery that seeks to abolish the republic and bend laws for its purposes. In English, populism means sort of like a grassroots movement which represents the sentiments and interests of the common folk/middle class.

"Populism" in English can mean either of these things, grassroots popular movement or demogoguery. Generally it is used in the latter sense, but here I am using it in the former because I am referring to actual genuinely popular movements. Most "popular" movements are actually fake & funded by corporations and billionaires (such as Black Lives Matter, Woke-religion in general).

GeekyBugle

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2052 on: August 01, 2021, 01:15:35 PM »
We get the countries we deserve as a society. Americans stood up from the very beginning. Argentina, in general, simply complied.

Funny this perspective, because right now other countries are doing a much better job at standing up than America. In France and Germany, there are protests with hundreds of thousands if not millions protesting. In Australia they just called out the army to crack skulls of any people who dare protest a lockdown after ... 13 octagenarian & nonagenarians died over a few weeks.

All over the world, it's amazing how the narrative shifts.

  • Is your movement pro-establishment astroturf? - If so, public demonstrations are safe. In fact, they are necessary and important! Covid fears your noble cause and retreats from your honorable demonstration of virtue
  • Is your movement anti-establishment populism? - If so, you are a dangerous extremist. Public demonstrations are dangerous superspreader events that lead to millions of deaths and if those deaths don't materialize then assuredly you've caused much invisible suffering with long-Covid and all the strain on the healthcare system. The establishment cares about your health, that's why the military will be dispatched to literally beat your head in, grapple you to the ground, and throw you in a holding pen with hundreds of others so you don't spread the killer virus.

The system reveals it has no legitimacy and no morality, but sadly many people refuse to see that the concern is power, not saving lives.

Do you have a source on that? I tried googling the Australian cases but nothing showed up. Glad to see the French and the German are still awake. Maybe this will be last straw and people will regain their dignity and set things in order; end the EU, kick Merkel out, kick migrants out, stop the massive waves of diversity, cut the marxist propaganda and return to a traditional, normal and free Europe.

This is why you need guns; so you don't end up taking tear gas because the government wants to inject you with something for your safety. You don't see such extremes in America because they know people will fight back. While the "German" and "French" governments are literally sending the cops on their people, America has to offer laughable incentives.

Over here, my people just slumber. We've been demoralized after decades and decades of blatant corruption and clown world. We just take it for granted, so we don't expect much change. The only criticisms are the mishandling of the pandemic, the length of the quarantine and the absence of vaccines. Should there be a mandatory vaccination program, I doubt people would resist. All the sheeple would suddenly turn into state agents because "you're gonna kill us all !!!!". Funny how countries with small vaccination percentages are not dying by the hundred thousands...

BTW, I noticed how the word populist carries a different meaning in English. In Spanish, populism is a demagogic movement which seeks to destroy or modify the political institutions for its own perpetuation; wokeism is populism. It's demagoguery that seeks to abolish the republic and bend laws for its purposes. In English, populism means sort of like a grassroots movement which represents the sentiments and interests of the common folk/middle class.

You're from Spain right? For a very long time Spain and Latin-America has been ruled by the left, and our education system and press has been co-opted.

The true opposite of populism  (true populism) isn't democracy, it's elitism. Democracy is a synonym of populism, sin it's the rule of the people, for the people from the people.

And the left has (allmost all), turned to fascism, because megacorporations bought their talking heads and the sheep just follows. It's easier to turn a commie/socialist/fascist/nazi into another of those than it is to turn them into REAL liberals that respect the fundamental liberties of the individual.

And here's another trick they played on the populace: Neo-Liberalism = Bad. Not a single leftist can define it. They just use it to mean capitalism. But thing is... Liberalism was, is and always will be in favor of the free market, because it's in favor of economic liberty.

Mindo you I?m not a lazess fare type, I do think there's some regulations that make sense and are neccessary.
 
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

SonTodoGato

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2053 on: August 01, 2021, 02:23:58 PM »
You're from Spain right? For a very long time Spain and Latin-America has been ruled by the left, and our education system and press has been co-opted.

The true opposite of populism  (true populism) isn't democracy, it's elitism. Democracy is a synonym of populism, sin it's the rule of the people, for the people from the people.

And the left has (allmost all), turned to fascism, because megacorporations bought their talking heads and the sheep just follows. It's easier to turn a commie/socialist/fascist/nazi into another of those than it is to turn them into REAL liberals that respect the fundamental liberties of the individual.

And here's another trick they played on the populace: Neo-Liberalism = Bad. Not a single leftist can define it. They just use it to mean capitalism. But thing is... Liberalism was, is and always will be in favor of the free market, because it's in favor of economic liberty.

Mindo you I?m not a lazess fare type, I do think there's some regulations that make sense and are neccessary.

I'm not sure if you're asking me or him. I can tell you as an Argentinian you're spot on. Especially the "neoliberalism bad" part. They blame everything on it, yet cannot define it and we're actually very far from being capitalist countries.

For the record, in Spanish (as well as in many other English-speaking countries) liberal just means libertarian; free market economics, laissez-faire. Neo-liberal would be the return of free market policies after decades of keynesianism and its subsequent failure. In the US, liberal just means "progressive"; the opposite of conservative.

Argentina went through its biggest crisis at the time (biggest one is right now) in the 90's and early 2000's, while we were implementing liberal economic reforms, which were ironically caused by high public spending and foreign debt to sustain it. We couldn't afford it so we ended up defaulting on it and economic liberalism was blamed for it. Ever since then we've been living under the kirchnerist regime which is made up socialist sympathizers, former terrorists, and upper-class politicians who were part of 90's liberalism and have switched sides; preaching socialist narrative while owning hotels which magically produce money even though no one stays in them. It's the economic, moral and intellectual shithole you'd expect.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #2054 on: August 01, 2021, 02:31:45 PM »
You're from Spain right? For a very long time Spain and Latin-America has been ruled by the left, and our education system and press has been co-opted.

The true opposite of populism  (true populism) isn't democracy, it's elitism. Democracy is a synonym of populism, sin it's the rule of the people, for the people from the people.

And the left has (allmost all), turned to fascism, because megacorporations bought their talking heads and the sheep just follows. It's easier to turn a commie/socialist/fascist/nazi into another of those than it is to turn them into REAL liberals that respect the fundamental liberties of the individual.

And here's another trick they played on the populace: Neo-Liberalism = Bad. Not a single leftist can define it. They just use it to mean capitalism. But thing is... Liberalism was, is and always will be in favor of the free market, because it's in favor of economic liberty.

Mindo you I?m not a lazess fare type, I do think there's some regulations that make sense and are neccessary.

I'm not sure if you're asking me or him. I can tell you as an Argentinian you're spot on. Especially the "neoliberalism bad" part. They blame everything on it, yet cannot define it and we're actually very far from being capitalist countries.

For the record, in Spanish (as well as in many other English-speaking countries) liberal just means libertarian; free market economics, laissez-faire. Neo-liberal would be the return of free market policies after decades of keynesianism and its subsequent failure. In the US, liberal just means "progressive"; the opposite of conservative.

Argentina went through its biggest crisis at the time (biggest one is right now) in the 90's and early 2000's, while we were implementing liberal economic reforms, which were ironically caused by high public spending and foreign debt to sustain it. We couldn't afford it so we ended up defaulting on it and economic liberalism was blamed for it. Ever since then we've been living under the kirchnerist regime which is made up socialist sympathizers, former terrorists, and upper-class politicians who were part of 90's liberalism and have switched sides; preaching socialist narrative while owning hotels which magically produce money even though no one stays in them. It's the economic, moral and intellectual shithole you'd expect.

IK was asking you.

Yeah, it's the same here in México and ALL of Latin-America and also Spain.

In Spain the commies are currently celebrating the "Riders Law" which just left in the unemployment statistic over 8,000 people. A true socialist success.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell