Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Mistwell]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

No, I am not talking about California only, though it's the most populous state. Well in excess of the norm is not "full" but fucking yes, in all states, hospitals on average are WELL IN EXCESS OF THE NORM right now, except I think Hawaii. Name the state you're in, and I am betting your hospitals are well in excess of the norm right now.

Jesus Christ it's like this board is full of ostrich burying their heads in the sand.

[HappyDaze]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

No, I am not talking about California only, though it's the most populous state. Well in excess of the norm is not "full" but fucking yes, in all states, hospitals on average are WELL IN EXCESS OF THE NORM right now, except I think Hawaii. Name the state you're in, and I am betting your hospitals are well in excess of the norm right now.

Jesus Christ it's like this board is full of ostrich burying their heads in the sand.

It's not sand, it's kitty litter. Used kitty litter.

[Shasarak]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

I mean, look at Happydaze who was worried about the Hospital ICUs running at over 98% capacity before Christmas.  I assume that now there are many stories about the Hospitals that utterly failed and collapsed under the weight of all of the China Wuhan infection cases

[HappyDaze]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

I mean, look at Happydaze who was worried about the Hospital ICUs running at over 98% capacity before Christmas.  I assume that now there are many stories about the Hospitals that utterly failed and collapsed under the weight of all of the China Wuhan infection cases

No, fucktard, that's not what happens. I know that you're just being a sarcastic dick that doesn't want to really understand, but for the others...

What does happen is that important but non-critical procedures get bumped back. This makes a huge difference to the person that had need of those procedures. As but one example, consider the person scheduled to have a knee replacement d/t severe OA and is in terrible pain every day. This procedure is medically necessary for relief of pain, restoration of function, and improving the overall quality of life of the patient. However, it is in limbo right now and it may have to wait weeks or months longer before the hospital can fit them into the OR d/t concerns of ICU capacity (as previously explained). There's also the worry that any of the insurance approvals for the surgery may expire before the procedure can be done, and then the patient has to go through the approval process again leading to further delays.

[Mistwell]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

I mean, look at Happydaze who was worried about the Hospital ICUs running at over 98% capacity before Christmas.  I assume that now there are many stories about the Hospitals that utterly failed and collapsed under the weight of all of the China Wuhan infection cases

A hospital close to me has patients in the gift shop.

How can you be this deep in denial about what's happening in front of your eyes? Again, name the state and we can pull objective data on hospitalization numbers.

[Shasarak]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

I mean, look at Happydaze who was worried about the Hospital ICUs running at over 98% capacity before Christmas.  I assume that now there are many stories about the Hospitals that utterly failed and collapsed under the weight of all of the China Wuhan infection cases

No, fucktard, that's not what happens. I know that you're just being a sarcastic dick that doesn't want to really understand, but for the others...

What does happen is that important but non-critical procedures get bumped back. This makes a huge difference to the person that had need of those procedures. As but one example, consider the person scheduled to have a knee replacement d/t severe OA and is in terrible pain every day. This procedure is medically necessary for relief of pain, restoration of function, and improving the overall quality of life of the patient. However, it is in limbo right now and it may have to wait weeks or months longer before the hospital can fit them into the OR d/t concerns of ICU capacity (as previously explained). There's also the worry that any of the insurance approvals for the surgery may expire before the procedure can be done, and then the patient has to go through the approval process again leading to further delays.

If there is no over load this week then it has to be next week for sure.

Or some new excuse.  Honestly these wanabe health experts around here.  Cant turn around without falling over a Dr (non MD).

[HappyDaze]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

I mean, look at Happydaze who was worried about the Hospital ICUs running at over 98% capacity before Christmas.  I assume that now there are many stories about the Hospitals that utterly failed and collapsed under the weight of all of the China Wuhan infection cases

No, fucktard, that's not what happens. I know that you're just being a sarcastic dick that doesn't want to really understand, but for the others...

What does happen is that important but non-critical procedures get bumped back. This makes a huge difference to the person that had need of those procedures. As but one example, consider the person scheduled to have a knee replacement d/t severe OA and is in terrible pain every day. This procedure is medically necessary for relief of pain, restoration of function, and improving the overall quality of life of the patient. However, it is in limbo right now and it may have to wait weeks or months longer before the hospital can fit them into the OR d/t concerns of ICU capacity (as previously explained). There's also the worry that any of the insurance approvals for the surgery may expire before the procedure can be done, and then the patient has to go through the approval process again leading to further delays.

If there is no over load this week then it has to be next week for sure.

Or some new excuse.  Honestly these wanabe health experts around here.  Cant turn around without falling over a Dr (non MD).

You didn't read what I posted. There are very real backups r/t the increased patient load as I mentioned. Mistwell is saying he's seen a situation where non-treatment areas are being converted to patient-care areas. That's not normal and is a sign of severe overload.

I also never claimed to be a Dr. (MD or otherwise), but I am professionally familiar with healthcare administration and patient care processes relevant to these issues.

[Kiero]

We're talking about a mask, not cessation of all life.

I wear Green Lanter and GI Joe Cobra and Transformers masks. I wear Night Before Christmas and Los Angeles Clippers masks. I am about to make a d20 mask. WTF is the whining about masks. They're not that big a deal and sometimes I get nice compliments like, "nice to see you, Cobra Commander" (got that one from a newly elected judge).

Y'all are so weak sometimes.

Go you, accessorising the symbols of your oppression! Like the slave who thinks they're better than the others because their chains are made of gold.

[Kiero]

No, fucktard, that's not what happens. I know that you're just being a sarcastic dick that doesn't want to really understand, but for the others...

What does happen is that important but non-critical procedures get bumped back. This makes a huge difference to the person that had need of those procedures. As but one example, consider the person scheduled to have a knee replacement d/t severe OA and is in terrible pain every day. This procedure is medically necessary for relief of pain, restoration of function, and improving the overall quality of life of the patient. However, it is in limbo right now and it may have to wait weeks or months longer before the hospital can fit them into the OR d/t concerns of ICU capacity (as previously explained). There's also the worry that any of the insurance approvals for the surgery may expire before the procedure can be done, and then the patient has to go through the approval process again leading to further delays.

In the UK we've had more than six months of our healthcare system being on holiday, doing pretty much fuck all so they could "be ready" for a surge in coronavirus cases that never happened.

Everything that wasn't coronavirus was shelved, lots of people missing critical diagnoses and treatments, and now winter has come, it's the usual bollocks about how they can't cope. With the same pattern of demand that happens every fucking year, that they are utterly incapable of preparing for. Not helped by the number of their staff who are "isolating" or "shielding" or otherwise taking the piss, while on full pay.

Keep clapping for our wonderful NHS! Envy of the world, except never replicated anywhere else...

[VisionStorm]

I eagerly await the car lockdowns. Seriously, more than 38 THOUSAND deaths a year in the US? That's almost as bad as the kung flu, and it's been going on for DECADES! Don't even wanna look at fourtrax and motorcycle statistics. We need to lock down all motor transportation, STAT!

In reality land, 340 is not considered close to 38.


My question is: if 340 thousand dead Americans isn't enough to be considered serious, what number dead would be considered serious? A million? Two million? In terms of history, this level of pandemic happens once or twice a century.

I have some sympathy for arguments that some of the measures don't have a positive effect. That's an argument over statistical measures, and we can debate over what approaches are best.

But saying "Oh, who cares if 340 thousand people die"?!? I don't get it.

I was mostly just messing around, piggybacking Shasarak's sarcasm, and didn't even do the math cuz it was just a joke. Not that I necessarily trust official death estimates, given how politicized this whole thing has become, how inconsistent and contradictory reporting has been from the onset, how much censorship has been going on against dissenting voices, even within the medical field, and much incentive hospitals have to go along with the narrative to secure more funding for their "overwhelmed" systems. This has all been pushed by decree from on top with an air of official infallibility that cannot be questioned, while the guy in charge of this in the US is telling us to wear masks even while having sex. Cuz sticking your dick or your hand (or your tongue) in someone and exchanging bodily fluids won't get you sick, but not wearing a mask while doing it can. It's all fucking bullshit and they're just figuratively fucking with us.

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

No, I am not talking about California only, though it's the most populous state. Well in excess of the norm is not "full" but fucking yes, in all states, hospitals on average are WELL IN EXCESS OF THE NORM right now, except I think Hawaii. Name the state you're in, and I am betting your hospitals are well in excess of the norm right now.

Jesus Christ it's like this board is full of ostrich burying their heads in the sand.

I live in Puerto Rico (not a state, but still...) and my dad frequently has to take my brother to the hospital, cuz he was run over by a motorcycle around a year ago and had to have multiple surgeries on a broken leg, and he tells me that the hospitals (he's been to more than one) are ALWAYS empty, with people just dicking around not being helpful while he's waiting for my brother to get whatever procedures done. He's constantly complaining about it, and how this whole planedemic is just bullshit.

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

And everyone who died in 2020 has died of covid. Even the ones who committed suicide or got run over by motor vehicles.

[Snowman0147]

Damn Vision.  I hope your brother gets well and fully recover from that if he can.

[Pat]

I eagerly await the car lockdowns. Seriously, more than 38 THOUSAND deaths a year in the US? That's almost as bad as the kung flu, and it's been going on for DECADES! Don't even wanna look at fourtrax and motorcycle statistics. We need to lock down all motor transportation, STAT!

In reality land, 340 is not considered close to 38.

There is more than one way to skin a virus. The average age of someone dying from sars2 is about 80 years, while the average lifespan in the US is a bit over 78 years. Compare that to car crashes, where most fatalities are among the relatively young. Even without knowing exact numbers, it's safe to say that far more years of life were lost to car crashes this year than to the pandemic.

The novel coronavirus' mortality profile is almost identical to the natural mortality profile. It kills people almost perfectly in proportion to their chances to die from natural causes.

[Pat]

You are the only one who doesn't find the provisions of the Presidential Transition Act to be a reasonable argument; the term "president elect" is defined in federal law, and anyone claiming the benefits attached to that designation without being the president elect would be violating the law; are you asserting that Joe Biden and the head of the GSA (who authorized that funding) are violating federal law?

When I said you did not name a third party, the intended emphasis was on "a" and would have been better represented as "did not name a third party"; sorry for not emphasizing it but it seemed obvious. Instead you named a whole bunch of third parties, and when one person who has no real basis for his opinion, just his own pedantry, names an enormous number of competing third parties with very different agendas as uniformly, deliberately lying because they disagree with him, then there is more reason to doubt the person making that claim, rather than the third parties.

And in the current situation I applied your standard to you. I demonstrated that you were wrong (you later conceded the error, so my demonstration was correct) and you continued to say the same thing, which must mean, by your standard, that you were deliberately lying.

I'm not the only one, that's a ridiculous claim. But you do like your appeals to non-existent general authorities.

Also, who cares about the GSA? You certainly don't. Your argument is that Biden was the president-elect on November 5. The GSA administrator didn't certify Biden until weeks later, so that doesn't support your position in the slightest.

And that wasn't what I said, anyway. As I pointed out in that thread, I can see the argument for the GSA administrator's certification, but it's not a strong one. It's a fairly minor federal law that defines the term solely in the context of that specific law. It's hard to go from that to any kind of generalization. If you or they wanted to make that argument, you could have. But you didn't.

"A" third party? Really? You fail at pedantry, because that's not even logical.

And I did not continue to say the same thing, after it turned out to be wrong. You kept harping on it because you were grasping desperately for a single, thin victory, and I kept changing the subject to your mistake, in attempt to show you how poor your own behavior was. That's you, blatantly lying.

My statement was about what you were previously doing, in the past, not what you said you were going to do. It seems that dropping it would be better achieved by making the correction and not by posting additional criticism. Since you seem to want to continue to attack me, I will continue to point out your error and dishonesty. Given that you have already conceded your error, are you now backtracking from that concession?

That doesn't even make sense. You are making a statement about my intent, not my past.

And why didn't you follow your own advice about your own mistake?

I gave you multiple gracious ways to exit the argument, without making any demands of you or requiring you to concede anything. If you consider that a characteristic of someone who seems to "want to continue to attack me", you have a very distorted view of reality.

As you note later, "making demands is not an appropriate response" and yet you apparently were demanding that I not respond, despite the continued misrepresentations you have made.

I've never made that demand. Of anyone. You're lying again.

He agreed that your statement was correct; that is support that I rarely get. You can look back through the thread for Shasarak and consolcwby who were critical of me and not of you.

There are multiple people supporting your various positions in the thread. And picking Shasarak as a defender of me is risible.

But I get it, you feel put upon. Welcome to my world, where people on both the left and right insist I'm on the other team in the polarity olympics, and keep trying to prove to me, by cherry picking tiny slivers of my own quotes, that I don't really believe what I believe, because they apparently know better than I do what I think. Hey, you're one of those people! And you just mentioned another!

Your thesis at the time was that the bill was for "helping those were more negatively affected" [sic] and that "Calling this either a stimulus or a disaster relief bill is a joke. . It's pork, with a minor bribe attached". This suggests you did not understand the full scope of the bill, which was not just the coronavirus relief. As usual, you want to pretend that the point you pivoted to much later was what you claimed all along.

Bullshit again. Saying the bill was full of pork highlights I understood the overarching nature of the bill perfectly. The bill is using the coronavirus to pass a shitton of pork. That is literally the argument I made in the quote you just mangled. Your failure to understand such a simple concept after multiple rephrasings is mind-boggling.

The total amount you listed adds up to $920 billion: that's not the cost of the entire bill that includes the foreign aid provisions you listed as being part of that cost; those provisions were part of the $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill. If anything, it just looks more and more like you were confused over one versus two bills.

A lot of people were. Re-read the news articles. You'll find numerous ones supporting both your and my assertions, which turned out to be incorrect.

You have not pointed out any error of mine that affected my post. I have repeatedly pointed out the one error that you conceded after so many posts, and apparently now want to contest again, which made your post nonsense.

You have not pointed out any error that affected my post. I have pointed out errors you've made in almost every post, but unlike you I have to grace to drop them. The only error of yours that I repeated was your one/two bill mistake, and that was to show how miserably you were behaving.

The part about the foreign aid not being part of the $900 intended for coronavirus relief? You're right, and I was wrong.

That pretty much says it all. The correction invalidates the post where you made this error.

No, it literally supports my position. That even more spending had shit and nothing to do with a coronvirus stimulus only strengthens my argument.

[spon]

The novel coronavirus' mortality profile is almost identical to the natural mortality profile. It kills people almost perfectly in proportion to their chances to die from natural causes.

(tongue in cheek)
So, you're saying that Death has just got X% more efficient! I feel a gaming scenario coming on.

[Ratman_tf]

Hmmm... Covid kills Luke Letlow, a Republican congressman-elect in LA. He was fairly young (41) and had no comorbidities. Sniffles my ass.

https://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Louisiana-congressman-Luke-Letlow-dead-from-15835132.php

In other news, somewhere in a country of 330 million someone dies.

So all the people in all the hospitals right now which are well in excess of the norm is just all fake news?

Which "all the hospitals"? California is not the center of the Universe. The VAST majority of "all the hospitals" are not "well in excess of the norm". I don't give a fuck about California. The entire landmass can break from the rest of the continent and sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The thing that really amuses me is the "fake news" that anyone actually ever had to go to hospital and or died in any of the years prior to 2020.

I mean, look at Happydaze who was worried about the Hospital ICUs running at over 98% capacity before Christmas.  I assume that now there are many stories about the Hospitals that utterly failed and collapsed under the weight of all of the China Wuhan infection cases

A hospital close to me has patients in the gift shop.

Did they find anything good to buy? Those places are all full of cheap nicknacks.