This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 39855 times)

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #870 on: November 28, 2020, 12:46:31 PM »
Cute. NONE of that shows Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected.

It's a super simple thing. Find a QUOTE FROM BIDEN where he says the word PROMISE or something directly comparable to that word or a commitment along the lines of a promise, where he says he will SCRAP NASA or something directly comparable to that word.

Expressing a desire to change NASAs priorities is not a promise to scrap NASA. For example, Trump expressed a desire to change the priorities of the EPA if elected, and this was not him promising to scrap the EPA. An anti-Trump might lie and act like him wanting to change the priorities is the same as him wanting to scrap it, but that would be bullshit we'd all understood. Just like we all understand what you just tried to do was lie
Need help moving those goalposts around, Misty?

'Change priorities'. Wow, way to undersell 'we're pivoting away from actual space exploration and going to prop up diversity hiring and the climate change grift'.

But hey, it won't be scrapped. It'll be a pathetic shell of its former self, housing the usual woke bullshit, but it won't go away!

The Spaniard

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #871 on: November 28, 2020, 01:45:53 PM »
Cute. NONE of that shows Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected.

It's a super simple thing. Find a QUOTE FROM BIDEN where he says the word PROMISE or something directly comparable to that word or a commitment along the lines of a promise, where he says he will SCRAP NASA or something directly comparable to that word.

Expressing a desire to change NASAs priorities is not a promise to scrap NASA. For example, Trump expressed a desire to change the priorities of the EPA if elected, and this was not him promising to scrap the EPA. An anti-Trump might lie and act like him wanting to change the priorities is the same as him wanting to scrap it, but that would be bullshit we'd all understood. Just like we all understand what you just tried to do was lie
Need help moving those goalposts around, Misty?

'Change priorities'. Wow, way to undersell 'we're pivoting away from actual space exploration and going to prop up diversity hiring and the climate change grift'.

But hey, it won't be scrapped. It'll be a pathetic shell of its former self, housing the usual woke bullshit, but it won't go away!

Agreed.  We can expect more of this bullshit started by Obama's former NASA chief Charlie Bolden:

Bolden said President Barack Obama had charged him with three things upon becoming NASA administrator.

"One, he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering," Bolden said.


Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #872 on: November 28, 2020, 03:36:35 PM »
Agreed.  We can expect more of this bullshit started by Obama's former NASA chief Charlie Bolden:

Bolden said President Barack Obama had charged him with three things upon becoming NASA administrator.

"One, he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering," Bolden said.
Number one won't happen, because engineering, math, and science require actual work, not wokeness, and at that point they'll just indulge their inner Lysenko. Number two should not even be a NASA imperative; that's State Department territory primarily; and number three is at best stupid and at worst historical revisionism (there have been questions raised as to how much Muslim nations 'contributed' to STEM in their golden ages -- whether those accomplishments were made by Muslims, or by residents living under the scimitar).

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3544
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #873 on: November 28, 2020, 09:17:09 PM »
Cute. NONE of that shows Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected.

It's a super simple thing. Find a QUOTE FROM BIDEN where he says the word PROMISE or something directly comparable to that word or a commitment along the lines of a promise, where he says he will SCRAP NASA or something directly comparable to that word.

Expressing a desire to change NASAs priorities is not a promise to scrap NASA. For example, Trump expressed a desire to change the priorities of the EPA if elected, and this was not him promising to scrap the EPA. An anti-Trump might lie and act like him wanting to change the priorities is the same as him wanting to scrap it, but that would be bullshit we'd all understood. Just like we all understand what you just tried to do was lie
Need help moving those goalposts around, Misty?

'Change priorities'. Wow, way to undersell 'we're pivoting away from actual space exploration and going to prop up diversity hiring and the climate change grift'.

But hey, it won't be scrapped. It'll be a pathetic shell of its former self, housing the usual woke bullshit, but it won't go away!

Are you fucking high?

ONE goalpost was set by Spinachcat. He said Biden promised to sack NASA if he won. That's it. That's the one single goal post. NOTHING in your links shows he promised to sack NASA if he won. YOU are trying to move the goal post away from what he set. SHOW ME THE PROMISE.

You can't. Because he lied. And now you're lying. Why though? Why compound his lie with your own?

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16955
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #874 on: November 29, 2020, 08:06:19 AM »
Let's not forget that jeffy produced "nothing" in the way of verifiable facts. His ramblings are not proof of anything.

"jeffy"

You have invoked the curse upon yourself.... ;D

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16955
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #875 on: November 29, 2020, 08:09:54 AM »
Trying to get mistwell to engage in intellectual honesty is like trying to nail jello to a wall. He will keep moving goalposts and telling bold faced lies until your common sense tells you to give up and then he will declare victory.


Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #876 on: November 29, 2020, 08:40:23 AM »
Cute. NONE of that shows Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected.

It's a super simple thing. Find a QUOTE FROM BIDEN where he says the word PROMISE or something directly comparable to that word or a commitment along the lines of a promise, where he says he will SCRAP NASA or something directly comparable to that word.

Expressing a desire to change NASAs priorities is not a promise to scrap NASA. For example, Trump expressed a desire to change the priorities of the EPA if elected, and this was not him promising to scrap the EPA. An anti-Trump might lie and act like him wanting to change the priorities is the same as him wanting to scrap it, but that would be bullshit we'd all understood. Just like we all understand what you just tried to do was lie
Need help moving those goalposts around, Misty?

'Change priorities'. Wow, way to undersell 'we're pivoting away from actual space exploration and going to prop up diversity hiring and the climate change grift'.

But hey, it won't be scrapped. It'll be a pathetic shell of its former self, housing the usual woke bullshit, but it won't go away!

Are you fucking high?

ONE goalpost was set by Spinachcat. He said Biden promised to sack NASA if he won. That's it. That's the one single goal post. NOTHING in your links shows he promised to sack NASA if he won. YOU are trying to move the goal post away from what he set. SHOW ME THE PROMISE.

You can't. Because he lied. And now you're lying. Why though? Why compound his lie with your own?
No, but you seem to be. You're arguing semantics when both Spinach and I are pointing out how NASA has been hollowed out and might as well be dead.

Iowahawk's axiom still holds true about leftards:
1) Identify a respected institution.
2) Kill it.
3) Gut it.
4) Wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect.

Tell me, does it ever cross your tiny pea-brain to ask why SpaceX keeps launching (and occasionally failing, but that's rocket science for you) while NASA doesn't do shit?

I doubt it. You probably cheer on NASA's lurch into idpol idiocy.

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8679
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #877 on: November 29, 2020, 03:07:01 PM »
Following up on an earlier comment to me:

But this is one of my beefs with you jhkim.  It is not your place to say "Please don't be like the radicals of the beliefs I lean towards".  It is absolutely sane, normal, and natural to put reason aside when threated by something having no reason.  That's where we're at now.  "Yeah but you guys are punching back and punching is bad" doesn't have the corollary attached that when someone is punching you, punching them back is OK. 

Tell you what - if conservatives are still "immoderate" after the left has disarmed their rhetoric of our having to materially atone for sins of the father, let's have a conference about how to dial it back.  Until then, what is most necessary is to counteract the rhetorical gaslighting - which is done...with counter-rhetoric.
If I have an insane person ranting at me in my face, I do think it's natural to get mad and scream back at them -- also acting irrational. However, I also don't think that it's productive. When professionals have to deal with insane people -- like psychiatrists and orderlies -- they do so by being calm and rational. When force is necessary, it's applied in measured amounts.

Even if it's a violent confrontation, I think rationality and order is useful. A crazed mob is dangerous, but they are no match for an organized military force. If I was in a group faced with an insanely violent mob, I'd urge everyone to keep calm and use their heads. By tactically applying our force, we can systematically take the mob apart. Going crazy and attacking them irrationally is just going to get more of us killed.
The rhetoric battle, not kinetic ones.

In rhetorical battles, emotional appeals are important - but using emotional appeals isn't the same thing as being insane. There are sane and truthful emotional appeals.

The analogy to physical battles is just an analogy - but it's one that I feel is useful. I think insane crowds tearing into each other is worse for *both* sides compared to organized conflict. We can disagree on things and discuss those disagreements without tossing out reason and sanity.

You're concerned about the rhetoric of our having to materially atone for sins of the father. I would say that shame and pride in one's ancestors goes hand in hand -- and they have always been clashing rhetoric. Conservatives tend to take pride in the virtues of their ancestors and have a positive view of their past. (Though what is seen as conservative changes from age to age.) Liberals tend to criticize the past and push to right the wrongs that have been done by their ancestors. I don't think that conservatives will ever be willing to put aside pride in their ancestors. In turn, liberals aren't willing to put aside their rhetoric of wrongs. But we can still have some balance and discussion, knowing that there are both virtues and sins in our ancestors.

EOTB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #878 on: November 29, 2020, 06:09:10 PM »
Of course one should never put aside pride in their ancestors.  Everyone should take pride in their ancestors.  And lay off other peoples' ancestors.  Don't talk about mine, and I don't talk about yours.  They're dead.  It's just polite.
A framework for generating local politics

https://mewe.com/join/osric A MeWe OSRIC group - find an online game; share a monster, class, or spell; give input on what you'd like for new OSRIC products.  Just don't 1) talk religion/politics, or 2) be a Richard

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8946
  • high-minded hack
    • View Profile
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #879 on: November 29, 2020, 07:19:02 PM »
What if I'm descended from lowlife scumbags?
Rules for effective DMing:
1. Bring snacks.
2. The dice are always right.
3. I master the game, the game does not master me.
4. Momentum over perfection.
5. The game must go on!
https://vikinghatgm.blogspot.com

EOTB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #880 on: November 29, 2020, 07:43:10 PM »
If a man feels their own ancestry has absolutely nothing worth celebrating then voluntary castration is the only honorable option
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 07:47:01 PM by EOTB »
A framework for generating local politics

https://mewe.com/join/osric A MeWe OSRIC group - find an online game; share a monster, class, or spell; give input on what you'd like for new OSRIC products.  Just don't 1) talk religion/politics, or 2) be a Richard

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16955
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #881 on: November 29, 2020, 08:50:17 PM »
What if I'm descended from lowlife scumbags?

Then you are in good company.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8946
  • high-minded hack
    • View Profile
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #882 on: November 29, 2020, 08:55:24 PM »
Tell me, does it ever cross your tiny pea-brain to ask why SpaceX keeps launching (and occasionally failing, but that's rocket science for you) while NASA doesn't do shit?

I doubt it. You probably cheer on NASA's lurch into idpol idiocy.
I'm generally happy to have a go at identity politics, but NASA was becoming useless long before that nonsense popped up. It's simply that as any organisation grows and ages, it becomes subject to Pournelle's Iron Law. He actually came up with it by noting how NASA changed from Apollo - from having the goal of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to Earth, to the goal of being able to keep 175,000 people employed. Thus the clusterfuck that was the Shuttle.

Quote
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people:

First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

Identity politics at NASA are, I believe, a symptom of bureaucratic dysfunction, not a cause of it - because bureaucratic dysfunction existed at NASA long before this stuff came along.

There is more than one problem in the world, and more than one cause of clusterfucks.

Rules for effective DMing:
1. Bring snacks.
2. The dice are always right.
3. I master the game, the game does not master me.
4. Momentum over perfection.
5. The game must go on!
https://vikinghatgm.blogspot.com

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16955
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #883 on: November 30, 2020, 05:58:27 AM »
Tell me, does it ever cross your tiny pea-brain to ask why SpaceX keeps launching (and occasionally failing, but that's rocket science for you) while NASA doesn't do shit?

I doubt it. You probably cheer on NASA's lurch into idpol idiocy.
I'm generally happy to have a go at identity politics, but NASA was becoming useless long before that nonsense popped up. It's simply that as any organisation grows and ages, it becomes subject to Pournelle's Iron Law. He actually came up with it by noting how NASA changed from Apollo - from having the goal of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to Earth, to the goal of being able to keep 175,000 people employed. Thus the clusterfuck that was the Shuttle.

Quote
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people:

First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

Identity politics at NASA are, I believe, a symptom of bureaucratic dysfunction, not a cause of it - because bureaucratic dysfunction existed at NASA long before this stuff came along.

There is more than one problem in the world, and more than one cause of clusterfucks.

I'm hoping that NASA evolves into an administration for the governance of civilian space programs in the same way that the FAA governs civilian aviation. If for no other reason, the sheer cost effectiveness of civilian space versus government bureacracy space.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #884 on: November 30, 2020, 08:33:42 AM »
Tell me, does it ever cross your tiny pea-brain to ask why SpaceX keeps launching (and occasionally failing, but that's rocket science for you) while NASA doesn't do shit?

I doubt it. You probably cheer on NASA's lurch into idpol idiocy.
I'm generally happy to have a go at identity politics, but NASA was becoming useless long before that nonsense popped up. It's simply that as any organisation grows and ages, it becomes subject to Pournelle's Iron Law. He actually came up with it by noting how NASA changed from Apollo - from having the goal of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to Earth, to the goal of being able to keep 175,000 people employed. Thus the clusterfuck that was the Shuttle.

Quote
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people:

First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

Identity politics at NASA are, I believe, a symptom of bureaucratic dysfunction, not a cause of it - because bureaucratic dysfunction existed at NASA long before this stuff came along.

There is more than one problem in the world, and more than one cause of clusterfucks.

I'm hoping that NASA evolves into an administration for the governance of civilian space programs in the same way that the FAA governs civilian aviation. If for no other reason, the sheer cost effectiveness of civilian space versus government bureacracy space.
Not that I disagree with you, but... unless someone goes in and cleans out the infection, that's not gonna happen.