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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 40396 times)

jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #840 on: November 25, 2020, 12:15:11 PM »
One conversation topic that rang true was how “save the world” is all they have left.  There’s no going back from it.  Kinda like how once RPG settings (and fantasy fiction generally) got hooked on cataclysms they stared happening in-setting every few years; reboot = cataclysm.

Why is environmental policy X’s implementation necessary?  To save the world.  Why must you remake social functions from the ground up when a new virus hits with effects within historical norms?  To save humanity.  What happens if we make political decisions that don’t arc towards the history forecasted as our future?  Then people are heinous assholes which might need some mandatory reprogramming if they won’t come along quietly.

None of that is sane.  But it’s mainstream messaging.  And they can’t ever come down off that world-teetering ledge; they’re all-in.  There is no way to dial back to normalcy without losing credibility forever.

I agree that the hyperbolic language is insane. My biggest issue on this forum is how many posters willfully engage in this sort of cataclysmic talk -- i.e. "The other side want to make us SLAVES to the CHINESE! They are going to DESTROY AMERICA unless we fight back!" I remember being called an antichrist just a few weeks ago. Yes, plenty of liberals engage in similar from their side - but at least among voices on this forum, all of the apocalyptic talk is coming from conservative posters.

It does seem difficult to dial back from such predictions. Unfortunately, I don't think that even the predictions failing will make people rethink and moderate. I expect that after four years of Biden, that extremist conservatives won't disavow their current apocalyptic predictions -- just like how extremist liberals have not disavowed their apocalyptic predictions after four years of Trump.

Shasarak

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #841 on: November 25, 2020, 02:53:18 PM »
One conversation topic that rang true was how “save the world” is all they have left.  There’s no going back from it.  Kinda like how once RPG settings (and fantasy fiction generally) got hooked on cataclysms they stared happening in-setting every few years; reboot = cataclysm.
Reminds me of the recently sunset show Supernatural that progressed from monster-of-the-week to story-arc monsters, to season-long nemeses, to stopping the apocalypse. Then it just kept doubling-down season after season, and we even had the characters in-show asking "What's the apocalypse this time?"

In one of the games I play, I stopped 1 of the 72 Apocalypses.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

EOTB

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #842 on: November 25, 2020, 07:03:41 PM »
One conversation topic that rang true was how “save the world” is all they have left.  There’s no going back from it.  Kinda like how once RPG settings (and fantasy fiction generally) got hooked on cataclysms they stared happening in-setting every few years; reboot = cataclysm.

Why is environmental policy X’s implementation necessary?  To save the world.  Why must you remake social functions from the ground up when a new virus hits with effects within historical norms?  To save humanity.  What happens if we make political decisions that don’t arc towards the history forecasted as our future?  Then people are heinous assholes which might need some mandatory reprogramming if they won’t come along quietly.

None of that is sane.  But it’s mainstream messaging.  And they can’t ever come down off that world-teetering ledge; they’re all-in.  There is no way to dial back to normalcy without losing credibility forever.

I agree that the hyperbolic language is insane. My biggest issue on this forum is how many posters willfully engage in this sort of cataclysmic talk -- i.e. "The other side want to make us SLAVES to the CHINESE! They are going to DESTROY AMERICA unless we fight back!" I remember being called an antichrist just a few weeks ago. Yes, plenty of liberals engage in similar from their side - but at least among voices on this forum, all of the apocalyptic talk is coming from conservative posters.

It does seem difficult to dial back from such predictions. Unfortunately, I don't think that even the predictions failing will make people rethink and moderate. I expect that after four years of Biden, that extremist conservatives won't disavow their current apocalyptic predictions -- just like how extremist liberals have not disavowed their apocalyptic predictions after four years of Trump.

Note that even those are not global, but local. 

But this is one of my beefs with you jhkim.  It is not your place to say "Please don't be like the radicals of the beliefs I lean towards".  It is absolutely sane, normal, and natural to put reason aside when threated by something having no reason.  That's where we're at now.  "Yeah but you guys are punching back and punching is bad" doesn't have the corollary attached that when someone is punching you, punching them back is OK. 

Tell you what - if conservatives are still "immoderate" after the left has disarmed their rhetoric of our having to materially atone for sins of the father, let's have a conference about how to dial it back.  Until then, what is most necessary is to counteract the rhetorical gaslighting - which is done...with counter-rhetoric.
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SHARK

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #843 on: November 25, 2020, 07:26:53 PM »
One conversation topic that rang true was how “save the world” is all they have left.  There’s no going back from it.  Kinda like how once RPG settings (and fantasy fiction generally) got hooked on cataclysms they stared happening in-setting every few years; reboot = cataclysm.

Why is environmental policy X’s implementation necessary?  To save the world.  Why must you remake social functions from the ground up when a new virus hits with effects within historical norms?  To save humanity.  What happens if we make political decisions that don’t arc towards the history forecasted as our future?  Then people are heinous assholes which might need some mandatory reprogramming if they won’t come along quietly.

None of that is sane.  But it’s mainstream messaging.  And they can’t ever come down off that world-teetering ledge; they’re all-in.  There is no way to dial back to normalcy without losing credibility forever.

I agree that the hyperbolic language is insane. My biggest issue on this forum is how many posters willfully engage in this sort of cataclysmic talk -- i.e. "The other side want to make us SLAVES to the CHINESE! They are going to DESTROY AMERICA unless we fight back!" I remember being called an antichrist just a few weeks ago. Yes, plenty of liberals engage in similar from their side - but at least among voices on this forum, all of the apocalyptic talk is coming from conservative posters.

It does seem difficult to dial back from such predictions. Unfortunately, I don't think that even the predictions failing will make people rethink and moderate. I expect that after four years of Biden, that extremist conservatives won't disavow their current apocalyptic predictions -- just like how extremist liberals have not disavowed their apocalyptic predictions after four years of Trump.

Note that even those are not global, but local. 

But this is one of my beefs with you jhkim.  It is not your place to say "Please don't be like the radicals of the beliefs I lean towards".  It is absolutely sane, normal, and natural to put reason aside when threated by something having no reason.  That's where we're at now.  "Yeah but you guys are punching back and punching is bad" doesn't have the corollary attached that when someone is punching you, punching them back is OK. 

Tell you what - if conservatives are still "immoderate" after the left has disarmed their rhetoric of our having to materially atone for sins of the father, let's have a conference about how to dial it back.  Until then, what is most necessary is to counteract the rhetorical gaslighting - which is done...with counter-rhetoric.

Greetings!

Damn right we need to "Punch Back!" I like the visual of curb-stomping the fuck out of them when wearing a solid pair of Doc Martin boots. A big, strong boot right to their soft, fat, Reeeing asses!

Ahh, yes. Just stay in that giant pot and slowly get boiled to death, like the Frog in the Pot. No, no, there's nothing going on here. There there. *rubs back* Everyone just remain calm.

Big Tech *Censoring* American citizens that don't swallow the fucking Liberal jello--banned, de-platformed, cancelled, or called "Misinformation". Conveniently, Twitter, Facebook, and Google are all right there, aligned with the Democrats, and pushing Liberalism, BLM, Antifa, and more.

Democrat Politicians--Biden, AOC, Bernie, Buttigeg, Beto O'Roarke, and more--all wanting to raise taxes sky high; get more in bed with Globalists; cock-suck on the Communist Chinese; Bow down to the UN; Confiscate our guns; Push more Abortion; Institute political procedures which enthrone the Democrats and defraud all future elections--the "California Plan"--taking what the Democrats have done throughout the state of California to a nationwide platform; Open the borders and let MILLIONS of illegal immigrants pour into our country.

Ahh, yeah. None of that inflicts fatal damage to our Republic, and our nation. The cock-sucking Democrats all think it is just fine and dandy. And these fucking Marxist scum, these filthy, diseased rats wonder and Reee about why good Americans consider them to be traitors?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #844 on: November 25, 2020, 07:43:27 PM »
But this is one of my beefs with you jhkim.  It is not your place to say "Please don't be like the radicals of the beliefs I lean towards".  It is absolutely sane, normal, and natural to put reason aside when threated by something having no reason.  That's where we're at now.  "Yeah but you guys are punching back and punching is bad" doesn't have the corollary attached that when someone is punching you, punching them back is OK. 

Tell you what - if conservatives are still "immoderate" after the left has disarmed their rhetoric of our having to materially atone for sins of the father, let's have a conference about how to dial it back.  Until then, what is most necessary is to counteract the rhetorical gaslighting - which is done...with counter-rhetoric.
This is a messageboard about a kosher corner of a geeky niche hobby. It isn't the metaphorical pass of Thermopylae; there is no broader war that will be won by what we say or do not say here. So there is no need to scorch or salt the figurative earth with win-at-all-costs or take-no-prisoners rhetorical techniques.

The complete opposite, in fact. We may not be able to steer the overall the culture wars, but this place is what we make of it. If we choose to be civil, if we make substantive arguments instead of personal attacks, then we can create something sheltered from the storms that surround it.

EOTB

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #845 on: November 25, 2020, 08:07:21 PM »
Pat, my posting falls within what I consider fair play for a free speech board in political threads in nutkinland.  Coffee shops in the 18th century weren't the pass of Thermopylae either.  I do encourage anyone who dislikes what I have to say, or how I say it, to mute me.  In political threads I will attempt to persuade on a right-brained level and not a left-brained one because the left-brained argument is a mirage for persuasion purposes.  I wear this on my sleeve; it's not hidden.   

A framework for generating local politics

https://mewe.com/join/osric A MeWe OSRIC group - find an online game; share a monster, class, or spell; give input on what you'd like for new OSRIC products.  Just don't 1) talk religion/politics, or 2) be a Richard

Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #846 on: November 25, 2020, 08:49:31 PM »
And I'll continue to advocate for extending good faith instead of jumping to conclusions, and having discussions instead of shout downs.

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #847 on: November 25, 2020, 09:33:24 PM »
And I'll continue to advocate for extending good faith instead of jumping to conclusions, and having discussions instead of shout downs.
I like what you're trying to do. I tried the same before I gave up hope for most of the dumbasses in this place. It really isn't the place for serious conversations,  but if it looks like it's genuinely heading in that direction,  maybe I'll give it another try.

Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #848 on: November 25, 2020, 10:07:15 PM »
And I'll continue to advocate for extending good faith instead of jumping to conclusions, and having discussions instead of shout downs.
I like what you're trying to do. I tried the same before I gave up hope for most of the dumbasses in this place. It really isn't the place for serious conversations,  but if it looks like it's genuinely heading in that direction,  maybe I'll give it another try.
You should try it again. When you slip your trollskin, your posts are fairly reasonable. I don't agree with you very often, but I've never looked for that. Uniformity is dull.

Your remind me of SHARK, that way. SHARK's switch seems to have been flipped with this election, while you've being doing the bait-dance longer, but you've both made quality posts when you're not flashing your sabres and riding into the valley of partisan death.

consolcwby

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #849 on: November 25, 2020, 10:54:29 PM »
You must have serious self consciousness issues if you care what strangers think of you for wearing a mask. How weak and cowardly that you're so concerned about your personal image to that degree.

Is this what counts as wit for leftists today? Seems lame even for Twatter.

I don't wear a mask so my disdain for you clowns is unconcealed. I wouldn't want you to miss an ounce of being judged for your submission.

I am not a leftist by any stretch of the imagination and it's true that your comment struck me as you being deeply self conscious and insecure. If I see someone not wearing a mask, it does not communicate disdain. It just communicates someone with poor personal hygiene. It's roughly like seeing someone go to the bathroom and not wash their hands, and then picking their nose. It's like seeing someone missing teeth and with black teeth because they never bothered to brush their teeth. The image you're conveying is definitely not the one you think you're conveying. "Badass" or "nonconformist" is the last thing from other people's minds when they see you. They are more likely to wonder if you are specially abled.

I mean, some part of you had to know that how you see yourself might not be how others are seeing you, right?
Well, why don't you just round him up and put a bullet in the back of his head, Komrade? Better yet, find out his personal information and post it where everyone can find him! That way, you can silence the dissenters and gain a +5 on your SOCIAL CREDIT SCORE! Remember: NON-CONFORMITY IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY! KILL THE UNBELIEVERS AND RAPE THEIR CHILDREN FOR THE GOOD OF THE MOTHERLAND! SHE BLEEDS FOR YOU!

fucking murderous pig.
So somebody says "you look like a damn fool" and you have to take it somewhere that makes you look far more foolish. Good job.
Well, I hate to disappoint people.  :P
But, I suppose my point has been made and dismissed as foolish. Just as I was accused of being too young to vote or a liar. Amazing to me the responses. Is it that you want to murder? Needing elbow room? Or is it that you want a better parking space? Less people, less problems, right?
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                                                                                   https://youtu.be/Br3LRj2pwAs

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #850 on: November 26, 2020, 01:39:27 AM »
And I'll continue to advocate for extending good faith instead of jumping to conclusions, and having discussions instead of shout downs.
I like what you're trying to do. I tried the same before I gave up hope for most of the dumbasses in this place. It really isn't the place for serious conversations,  but if it looks like it's genuinely heading in that direction,  maybe I'll give it another try.

Oh, brother! I give it a week.
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jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #851 on: November 26, 2020, 02:24:51 PM »
But this is one of my beefs with you jhkim.  It is not your place to say "Please don't be like the radicals of the beliefs I lean towards".  It is absolutely sane, normal, and natural to put reason aside when threated by something having no reason.  That's where we're at now.  "Yeah but you guys are punching back and punching is bad" doesn't have the corollary attached that when someone is punching you, punching them back is OK. 

Tell you what - if conservatives are still "immoderate" after the left has disarmed their rhetoric of our having to materially atone for sins of the father, let's have a conference about how to dial it back.  Until then, what is most necessary is to counteract the rhetorical gaslighting - which is done...with counter-rhetoric.

If I have an insane person ranting at me in my face, I do think it's natural to get mad and scream back at them -- also acting irrational. However, I also don't think that it's productive. When professionals have to deal with insane people -- like psychiatrists and orderlies -- they do so by being calm and rational. When force is necessary, it's applied in measured amounts.

Even if it's a violent confrontation, I think rationality and order is useful. A crazed mob is dangerous, but they are no match for an organized military force. If I was in a group faced with an insanely violent mob, I'd urge everyone to keep calm and use their heads. By tactically applying our force, we can systematically take the mob apart. Going crazy and attacking them irrationally is just going to get more of us killed.

EOTB

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #852 on: November 26, 2020, 02:31:02 PM »
The rhetoric battle, not kinetic ones. 
A framework for generating local politics

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Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #853 on: November 26, 2020, 02:33:21 PM »
Hey Mistwell.

https://billwhittle.com/ediwg-invasion-anti-capitalist-nasa-group-fights-to-ban-usa-from-moon-mars-more/

Why does NASA have an 'Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Working Group', anyways?

You mean why do they have such a group under Trump, and why does this have something to do with Biden's policies regarding NASA? Great questions. Can you answer them?
So you can't explain it, but deflect onto Trump.

BTW, the EDIWG dates back to 2010.

But I wouldn't expect you to remember that. You are, after all, a very small, stupid person.

Your personal attack notwithstanding, why would I know why they have such a group? YOU were making it a point about Biden but given we both know it well pre-dates Biden, WTF is your point in raising this?

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #854 on: November 26, 2020, 02:41:21 PM »
But what you said is quite telling though. You wear your diaper for conformity to make sure you aren't judged as disobedient and to signal to your fellow sheep that you submit as they submit so they approve of you.
A lot of us wear pants in public too. Same kind of thing. But I'm sure you resist that too and show your ass at every opportunity.

He does it here every day.