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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 341910 times)

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #810 on: November 24, 2020, 01:17:20 PM »
Ah yes, the classic modern argumentative technique. Instead actually addressing what someone said or believes, you just made up shit about them and insisted it's true.

Naw, I tried the first and the answers led me to conclusions. It's how it works,at some point the mental becomes so clear that you have to address it.
No, you just made up shit.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #811 on: November 24, 2020, 01:29:16 PM »
Ah yes, the classic modern argumentative technique. Instead actually addressing what someone said or believes, you just made up shit about them and insisted it's true.

Naw, I tried the first and the answers led me to conclusions. It's how it works,at some point the mental becomes so clear that you have to address it.
No, you just made up shit.

Pat, do you believe masks have bad side effects?

Garry G

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #812 on: November 24, 2020, 01:38:44 PM »
Ah yes, the classic modern argumentative technique. Instead actually addressing what someone said or believes, you just made up shit about them and insisted it's true.

Naw, I tried the first and the answers led me to conclusions. It's how it works,at some point the mental becomes so clear that you have to address it.
No, you just made up shit.

Oh no I didn't

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #813 on: November 24, 2020, 01:57:27 PM »
Ah yes, the classic modern argumentative technique. Instead actually addressing what someone said or believes, you just made up shit about them and insisted it's true.

Naw, I tried the first and the answers led me to conclusions. It's how it works,at some point the mental becomes so clear that you have to address it.
No, you just made up shit.

Pat, do you believe masks have bad side effects?
There are a few studies suggesting yes, but I haven't seen anything conclusive. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. If there are any effects, it's probably small, and more likely to be tied to people who wear sealed masks over long periods, not people who wear loose cloth masks to the store.

I occasionally point out hypocrisy or idiocy. Don't mistake that for taking sides.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #814 on: November 24, 2020, 03:35:08 PM »
Ah yes, the classic modern argumentative technique. Instead actually addressing what someone said or believes, you just made up shit about them and insisted it's true.

Naw, I tried the first and the answers led me to conclusions. It's how it works,at some point the mental becomes so clear that you have to address it.
No, you just made up shit.

Pat, do you believe masks have bad side effects?
There are a few studies suggesting yes, but I haven't seen anything conclusive. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. If there are any effects, it's probably small, and more likely to be tied to people who wear sealed masks over long periods, not people who wear loose cloth masks to the store.

I occasionally point out hypocrisy or idiocy. Don't mistake that for taking sides.

Fair enough.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #815 on: November 24, 2020, 03:59:52 PM »
Ah yes, the classic modern argumentative technique. Instead actually addressing what someone said or believes, you just made up shit about them and insisted it's true.

Naw, I tried the first and the answers led me to conclusions. It's how it works,at some point the mental becomes so clear that you have to address it.
No, you just made up shit.

Pat, do you believe masks have bad side effects?

I belive masks have bad primary effects.

There's a religious defererence to the effectiveness of masks. Few can quote the actual effectiveness of masks to protect themselves or others. And fewer still know how to use them effectively.

Notice in pictures from China or Japan, the people wearing masks are wearing clean, surgical masks? Take a look at an American wearing a mask. They're cheap, cloth masks, usually garish colors and designs, the better to disguise the fact that it hasn't been washed in a week, if ever, and worn down under the nose, or they're shifting it around with their hands.

I shift my masks around with my hands. The fucking thing keeps trying to ride up into my eyes, or down off my nose.

I don't know the proper way to don PPE. There were no public service anouncements or phamplets distributed. People wear masks because they were told to. And I keep a couple of cheap, cloth masks in my car so I can put one one when I go to the store to keep the Karens at bay and so I can get my groceries without getting kicked out of the store. That's it. I have no illusions that the mask is actually doing anything to protect myself or others.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #816 on: November 24, 2020, 04:10:04 PM »
Hey Mistwell.

https://billwhittle.com/ediwg-invasion-anti-capitalist-nasa-group-fights-to-ban-usa-from-moon-mars-more/

Why does NASA have an 'Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Working Group', anyways?

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #817 on: November 24, 2020, 04:39:27 PM »
I shift my masks around with my hands. The fucking thing keeps trying to ride up into my eyes, or down off my nose.

I don't know the proper way to don PPE. There were no public service anouncements or phamplets distributed.
It's not like there aren't instructional videos on Youtube.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #818 on: November 24, 2020, 04:41:45 PM »

I belive masks have bad primary effects.


OK. What is the basis of your belief?

Quote
Notice in pictures from China or Japan, the people wearing masks are wearing clean, surgical masks? Take a look at an American wearing a mask. They're cheap, cloth masks, usually garish colors and designs, the better to disguise the fact that it hasn't been washed in a week, if ever, and worn down under the nose, or they're shifting it around with their hands.

We wash our masks after every use. I have a drying line in my home with over a dozen masks on it all the time. The color of the mask is not relevant of course. As long as it's made properly (and all of ours are). I assure you, American masks are not "cheaper" than what you are seeing in China. And of course wearing it below your nose is not good, but I think most people know that and most people don't do that. You can shift your mask around with your hands, provided you're not handling the outside front of it, and provided you wash your hands before touching your mouth nose or eyes with that hand. But, none of this really has much to do with the mask.

Quote
I shift my masks around with my hands. The fucking thing keeps trying to ride up into my eyes, or down off my nose.

Buy a better mask which is adjustable at the ears and which has a metal wire to close over your nose. They're not that hard to come by. It's what we have.

Quote
I don't know the proper way to don PPE. There were no public service anouncements or phamplets distributed. People wear masks because they were told to. And I keep a couple of cheap, cloth masks in my car so I can put one one when I go to the store to keep the Karens at bay and so I can get my groceries without getting kicked out of the store. That's it. I have no illusions that the mask is actually doing anything to protect myself or others.

What is your reason for thinking that, if someone has Covid-19 and is contagious, that a mask won't reduce the radius which they spread it around them?

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #819 on: November 24, 2020, 04:43:55 PM »
Hey Mistwell.

https://billwhittle.com/ediwg-invasion-anti-capitalist-nasa-group-fights-to-ban-usa-from-moon-mars-more/

Why does NASA have an 'Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Working Group', anyways?

You mean why do they have such a group under Trump, and why does this have something to do with Biden's policies regarding NASA? Great questions. Can you answer them?

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #820 on: November 24, 2020, 04:46:57 PM »
I don't know the proper way to don PPE. There were no public service anouncements or phamplets distributed. People wear masks because they were told to. And I keep a couple of cheap, cloth masks in my car so I can put one one when I go to the store to keep the Karens at bay and so I can get my groceries without getting kicked out of the store. That's it. I have no illusions that the mask is actually doing anything to protect myself or others.
I've been at conferences with J&J staff who were responsible for selling N95 masks. They'd tell stories about how J&J required them all to get certified once a year in the masks, and how everyone failed. They weren't medical professionals, but these are people whose job revolved around the mask, and they had to try again and again to get a proper seal. There's zero chance someone without training will wear one correctly, there's almost no chance someone who wears them occasionally will get it right, and even medical professionals who wear them routinely and get rigorously tested will probably make mistakes.

With other masks, the biggest problem is probably hygiene. If you wear gloves and work with hazardous substances, you know not to wipe your face or touch most surfaces, and you know how to take off gloves without getting what's on the gloves all over your hands. Masks should be treated the same way, but they're not. They're constantly adjusted, stuck in pockets, and thrown into glove boxes. People take them off by touching the mask itself not the cords, after their hands have been in contact with shared surfaces, like doors or PIN keypads.

Public health messaging at the start of the pandemic never really talked about how to handle masks properly, but at least they covered a few common sense hygienic standards, like not touching your face with your hands. I specifically remember an NPR show, where one of the guests was talking about how hard it was to remember not to do that. But they don't seem to even try, anymore. Instead it's all masks, as if masks were some magical token that repelled disease by their very presence. That's a shame. They should go back to talking about simple precautions.

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #821 on: November 24, 2020, 04:51:07 PM »
And of course wearing it below your nose is not good, but I think most people know that and most people don't do that.
Not where I live. Mask wearing has definitely slipped in the past few months. While only a few people have started to brazenly ignore the mandates and not wear masks, a huge chunk have switched the below the nose position. Pandemic fatigue is real.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #822 on: November 24, 2020, 04:51:41 PM »
I shift my masks around with my hands. The fucking thing keeps trying to ride up into my eyes, or down off my nose.

I don't know the proper way to don PPE. There were no public service anouncements or phamplets distributed.
It's not like there aren't instructional videos on Youtube.

Are there? I never thought to look. They just put up signs at my grocery store that masks are required, so I bought a handful of cheap cloth masks and put them on when I go in the store, and after that, they go back in the packages until the next trip.

I only bring it up because I participate in these kinds of discussions, and became aware that there's more involved with mask wearing. I imagine most of the population don't. They just go through the motions.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #823 on: November 24, 2020, 04:57:50 PM »

I belive masks have bad primary effects.


OK. What is the basis of your belief?

That was the thesis of the rest of my reply. Mask wearing has become a ritual and not a preventative measure. And not even that anymore, as people get lax as the months wear on.
Quote

Quote
Notice in pictures from China or Japan, the people wearing masks are wearing clean, surgical masks? Take a look at an American wearing a mask. They're cheap, cloth masks, usually garish colors and designs, the better to disguise the fact that it hasn't been washed in a week, if ever, and worn down under the nose, or they're shifting it around with their hands.

We wash our masks after every use. I have a drying line in my home with over a dozen masks on it all the time. The color of the mask is not relevant of course. As long as it's made properly (and all of ours are). I assure you, American masks are not "cheaper" than what you are seeing in China. And of course wearing it below your nose is not good, but I think most people know that and most people don't do that. You can shift your mask around with your hands, provided you're not handling the outside front of it, and provided you wash your hands before touching your mouth nose or eyes with that hand. But, none of this really has much to do with the mask.

Quote
I shift my masks around with my hands. The fucking thing keeps trying to ride up into my eyes, or down off my nose.

Buy a better mask which is adjustable at the ears and which has a metal wire to close over your nose. They're not that hard to come by. It's what we have.

I went thought a bunch of masks when this first started. These are the best fitting I could find.
Quote

Quote
I don't know the proper way to don PPE. There were no public service anouncements or phamplets distributed. People wear masks because they were told to. And I keep a couple of cheap, cloth masks in my car so I can put one one when I go to the store to keep the Karens at bay and so I can get my groceries without getting kicked out of the store. That's it. I have no illusions that the mask is actually doing anything to protect myself or others.

What is your reason for thinking that, if someone has Covid-19 and is contagious, that a mask won't reduce the radius which they spread it around them?

Because millions of average Joes aren't going to observe mask protocols like you do.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:04:03 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #824 on: November 24, 2020, 05:05:24 PM »
Masks are 100% effective...at signaling your submission and fear.

If masks were effective at anything else, they would have been our standard wear for anyone entering a hospital, especially an ICU, especially during flu season, for the past 100 years.

While pneumonia with its impressive kill rate has run rampant through hospitals since forever, the mandatory mask nonsense only became "science" when it was needed to break people and its entirely dependent on everyone forgetting that any year before 2020 existed.

But really is it ANY surprise that cowards enjoy cowering and demand everyone join them in their weakness, delusions and virtue signaling?