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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 39064 times)

Larsdangly

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #660 on: November 15, 2020, 12:16:07 PM »
This is probably too much of a false-information echo chamber to penetrate anyone's consciousness, but most of the points being made about the low fatality rates of Covid-19 have been clearly and repeatedly debunked as results of false positive rates on tests, fatality or serum positive test rates from studies that were too small to yield meaningful results, over estimates of asymptomatic cases because people were not followed long enough to see them get sick. Add in a healthy dose of lies and assumptions.

The reality is that the case fatality rate (based on confirmed tests) averages close to 2 % (varying between about 1 and 5 %) at all times and places where it has been well documented in a big and well tested population. This is true in all of the heavily tested countries with basically modern health care systems in the US, Europe, east Asia, South America, etc. Obviously the true case fatality rate is lower than this because it doesn't account for people who never receive a test. But for much of the well documented period testing has been widespread, positivity rates very low, and antibody assays on big populations consistently fail to support the narrative that big chunks of the population have already had the disease without getting diagnosed. The real multiple of people who have had the disease is something like a factor of a few. 

The relationship of case fatality rate to age is widely recognized, but is not nearly as dramatic as people usually like to quote in their anti-mask tirades. Yes, 90 year olds have enormously greater true case fatality rate than 10 year olds. But most of the adult population has significant risk of death. If you are 50 or so, your case fatality rate is closely similar to the overall population average (so, of order 1 %).

The rates of signifiant morbidity (really long lasting impairment) are something like 10x or more case fatality rates.

Add this all up, and it is obvious why the economy is not going to just spring back into mid 2019 form when the world overlords from the UN stop oppressing the sheeple (or however you like to present absurd conspiracy theories). People don't think a ~ 2 % chance of death and ~20 % chance of serious long term health problems is worth flying to some stupid business conference where nothing much will happen anyway. Most of the restrictions on movement , vacations, eating at restaurants, etc. are a mix of semi-enforced rules and a lot of voluntary restrictions. If you want to get everyone back in their seats at Denny's or wandering around Disney World again, you need to reduce the risks down to the levels most people find acceptable. Like has been done in Korea, New Zealand, Australia, and a number of other places.

RandyB

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #661 on: November 15, 2020, 01:03:56 PM »
Heil Fauci!!!

“I was talking with my U.K. colleagues who are saying the U.K. is similar to where we are now, because each of our countries have that independent spirit,” he said on stage. “I can understand that, but now is the time to do what you’re told.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/fauci-says-us-has-independent-spirit-but-now-is-the-time-to-do-what-youre-told.html

Hmm...how about HELL FUCKING NO, you dickless little prick?

And this my friends is the cultural divide. Those who kneel vs. those who stand.

Greetings!

That's right, my friend! So many people want to be slaves. They feel safe and secure on their knees, begging. They enjoy being directed, and told what to do in every aspect of life. Socialism is for people that are essentially cattle. They are fat, bloated, and lazy. They do not want to work or think. They want to be taken care of by the government. Schooling, medical care, housing, food, a monthly check. They need someone else to make decisions for them. They are weak minded, and easily manipulated by emotions and controlled. Give them food, let them fuck and breed, and they are content, like cattle. Look at how hive-minded they are, and eager they embrace groupthink. They even chant the nonsense, over and over, like a spiritual mantra. These people don't want to think for themselves. They don't want to take responsibility for themselves--that's why they embrace a victim mentality, for everything in their lives, where everything terrible or pathetic in their life is someone else's fault--never the result of their own hedonism, their own selfishness and stupidity, their own lack of discipline, common sense, and respect for others, their own poor judgment and poor choices.

Deep down, they know they are weak, and they yearn to serve a master.

Just look at the 70 million or more people that voted for Biden and Kamala.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Agreed, with one exception.

Biden/Harris did not get 70 million or so votes. An honest audit of the election would/will show that they got 1/3 of that, at best.

Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #662 on: November 15, 2020, 01:20:01 PM »
This is probably too much of a false-information echo chamber to penetrate anyone's consciousness, but most of the points being made about the low fatality rates of Covid-19 have been clearly and repeatedly debunked as results of false positive rates on tests, fatality or serum positive test rates from studies that were too small to yield meaningful results, over estimates of asymptomatic cases because people were not followed long enough to see them get sick. Add in a healthy dose of lies and assumptions.

The reality is that the case fatality rate (based on confirmed tests) averages close to 2 % (varying between about 1 and 5 %) at all times and places where it has been well documented in a big and well tested population. This is true in all of the heavily tested countries with basically modern health care systems in the US, Europe, east Asia, South America, etc. Obviously the true case fatality rate is lower than this because it doesn't account for people who never receive a test. But for much of the well documented period testing has been widespread, positivity rates very low, and antibody assays on big populations consistently fail to support the narrative that big chunks of the population have already had the disease without getting diagnosed. The real multiple of people who have had the disease is something like a factor of a few. 

The relationship of case fatality rate to age is widely recognized, but is not nearly as dramatic as people usually like to quote in their anti-mask tirades. Yes, 90 year olds have enormously greater true case fatality rate than 10 year olds. But most of the adult population has significant risk of death. If you are 50 or so, your case fatality rate is closely similar to the overall population average (so, of order 1 %).

The rates of signifiant morbidity (really long lasting impairment) are something like 10x or more case fatality rates.

Add this all up, and it is obvious why the economy is not going to just spring back into mid 2019 form when the world overlords from the UN stop oppressing the sheeple (or however you like to present absurd conspiracy theories). People don't think a ~ 2 % chance of death and ~20 % chance of serious long term health problems is worth flying to some stupid business conference where nothing much will happen anyway. Most of the restrictions on movement , vacations, eating at restaurants, etc. are a mix of semi-enforced rules and a lot of voluntary restrictions. If you want to get everyone back in their seats at Denny's or wandering around Disney World again, you need to reduce the risks down to the levels most people find acceptable. Like has been done in Korea, New Zealand, Australia, and a number of other places.
That's a mix of misleading and false information. You base a lot of your conclusions on the case fatality rate (CFR), which is defined as the number of deaths over the number of positive tests. That's not a very useful number because it is highly dependent on the number of tests performed, their sensitivity, and who is being tested. If those factors are stable (within a fairly uniform region where the other variables don't change very much), the CFR can be used as indicator for whether the disease is trending up or down. But comparing CFRs across regions or when the number of tests or other factors are changing is pretty useless, and it says little about how dangerous the disease really is it. The reason the CFR was cited at lot at the start of the pandemic is because it's easily calculated, not because it's a good number.

The infection fatality rate (IFR), which is the ratio of the number of deaths over to the total number of people infected, is a far better number. But, obviously, this isn't as easy to measure as the CFR. The IFR requires representative population-wide studies, looking for the existence of antibodies. But we have that information now, for nearly all developed countries, and samples from the rest of the world.

The IFR varies, but in developed countries where the healthcare system hasn't been overwhelmed, it tends to be about 0.3%. That number may actually be inflated by a factor of two, because there are indications that the tests miss about half the infections (half the people who reports anosmia, the most characteristic symptom of the novel coronavirus, don't test positive for the antibodies). Countries with younger populations have much lower IFRs, like India (0.1%) and Africa (Kenya and Malawi 0.01%). The only places where the IFR even approached 1% is where there was a collapse of healthcare care, specifically elderly care (e.g. Spain).

A few Western countries
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v2
https://www.miamidade.gov/releases/2020-04-24-sample-testing-results.asp
https://pressroom.usc.edu/preliminary-results-of-usc-la-county-covid-19-study-released/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.04.20090076v2
www.klinikum.uni-muenchen.de/Abteilung-fuer-Infektions-und-Tropenmedizin/download/de/KoCo191/Zusammenfassung_KoCo19_Epi_dt_041120.pdf
https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publicerat-material/publikationsarkiv/t/the-infection-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-in-stockholm-technical-report/
India
https://theprint.in/health/lift-lockdowns-protect-the-vulnerable-treat-covid-like-a-health-issue-and-not-a-disaster/466786/
Africa
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.27.20162693v1
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.30.20164970v3
Spain
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.06.20169722v2

Your attempt to underplay the increased risk due to age is also incorrect. One of the disease's most remarkable aspects is how closely COVID-19's mortality profile matches the natural mortality profile. In other words, your risk of dying with SARS2 is almost perfectly proportional to your risk of dying without SARS2, which means it increases steeply with age.

In Europe, more than 90% of deaths were 70 years or older.  The median age of death in all first world countries with a developed health system is between 82 (Australia, Austria, England, Germany, Italy, Spain) and 86 (Canada, Switzerland) years of age. The exception is the USA, with a median of 78 years.

Even in Italy, where the IFR for those who were 80+ was 30% in the first phase (systems overwhelmed), and 8% in the second phase, the IFR for people 50 years and younger is less than 0.01%. In Spain, the IFR was less 0.03% for people age 40 or younger. In NYC, it was 0.12% for those 25 to 44, and 0.01% for those under 25. In England, 0.03% for those under 44 years. And those are all worst-case scenarios, where the systems were overwhelmed with patients.

Italy, Spain, NYC, England
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.31.2001383
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.06.20169722v1
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.27.20141689v1
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.12.20173690v1

Note that death rates have dropped in half or more since the start of the pandemic, because treatments have improved.

About 10% of people who develop severe symptoms do develop persistent symptoms, which last for several weeks or months. This is still developing, but it's been oversensationalized in the media, which has reported things like permanently reduced lung function in a high percentage of young patients, but all indications are this is just covid-induced pneumonia, and thus relatively short term. The bigger concern is the effect on the heart. COVID-19 is primarily a cardiovascular disease, and there are reports of mild myocarditis. But again, this was initially oversensationalized, and now its incidence rate is considered to be comparable to influenza.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid
Initial
https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/
More recent
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.14.20212555v1
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768914

Larsdangly

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #663 on: November 15, 2020, 01:29:18 PM »
You essentially wrote a withering 1000 word, 10 link essay to say I was exactly correct about the true fatality rate (a factor of a few less than ~2 %), recapitulating all of the logic of an argument I made (but of course in a way that made it sound like I hadn't said it).

Your description of the age distribution issue is also consistent with what I said, though obviously you meant to make a different rhetorical point. Nothing you presented disagrees with the statement I made - that if you are mid-to-late middle age (~50) your case fatality rate (and by extension likely also your infection fatality rate) is on the order of the average value across the population. If you are truly elderly it is 10x higher or worse and if you are under 25 or so it is effectively zero. But if you are near the age I said than it is near the value I stated.

Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #664 on: November 15, 2020, 01:54:36 PM »
You essentially wrote a withering 1000 word, 10 link essay to say I was exactly correct about the true fatality rate (a factor of a few less than ~2 %), recapitulating all of the logic of an argument I made (but of course in a way that made it sound like I hadn't said it).

Your description of the age distribution issue is also consistent with what I said, though obviously you meant to make a different rhetorical point. Nothing you presented disagrees with the statement I made - that if you are mid-to-late middle age (~50) your case fatality rate (and by extension likely also your infection fatality rate) is on the order of the average value across the population. If you are truly elderly it is 10x higher or worse and if you are under 25 or so it is effectively zero. But if you are near the age I said than it is near the value I stated.
You explicitly said it has a 2% death rate in your last paragraph, which is flat-out wrong. In your first paragraph you did mention the true rate was lower, but didn't quantify it, and put emphasis on the 2% (1-5%) numbers, which was at best misleading.

You're were also incorrect about the the steepness of the death rate, with increasing age. It's one of the steepest known, far more so than any other major disease. Your new claim that the death rate of someone 50 years of age is the same as the average death rate across the entire population is ludicrously false. Just consider one statement I made: "In Europe, more than 90% of deaths were 70 years or older". Looking at the IFR for specific age bands would further demolish your claim.

Your statements about the prevalence of antibodies are also highly misleading, at best. It's true, the percentage of COVID-19 antibodies is low in some countries, but that doesn't mean we're a long way from herd immunity. First of all, the initial estimates of a 60-80% of the population to develop herd immunity appear to be laughably wrong, with the real number 20% or less. Part of this is because of cross immunities. Studies have shown that antibodies and T cells from SARS1 provide cross immunity to SARS2 (but aren't detected by SARS2 antibody tests). Similarly, other coronavirus strains may provide cross immunity to some degree, and that may explain why kids are largely immune to the disease -- they've already been infected by other coronaviruses, and thus can throw off the novel one relatively easily. The peak in many areas, combined with antibody studies, suggests many countries or regions may be approaching or have achieved herd immunity, particularly those who took less drastic measures to contain the spread. The recent surge in cases without any increase in the death rate is also positive, because it indicates we're doing a better job protecting vulnerable (elderly, sick), while letting immunity develop among those who are at little risk from the disease.

Edit: I didn't say you were wrong about everything. I said you were wrong about a few specific things, but more importantly your overall post was misleading. I reframed the discussion, corrected erroneous details, added more information, and provided citations.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 02:34:28 PM by Pat »

Larsdangly

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #665 on: November 15, 2020, 03:28:47 PM »
Break it down: You know you can't disagree with my statement that the case fatality rate is in the low per cent range because the data are irrefutable. And you know I said that the true infection fatality rate must be a factor of several lower (it is not well enough known to pin down but clearly somewhere in the range of a few, so it isn't worth arguing over whether the right factor is 2 or 5 or 7). And of course you realize that something like 1-2 % divided by a few is indistinguishable from your preferred number of 0.3 %. So, there is nothing there we disagree about.

Your comments about the steepness of the age relationship is also a place where you think you are quoting numbers that disprove something I said but you clearly are not. It is completely possible that the case fatality rate for 50-somethings is 1-2 % AND that 90 % of fatalities happen in people over 70. These are not incompatible facts.

Regarding the serum antibody tests, you seem to be agreeing that they have generally low results but there are various anecdotal reasons to hope that we are close to herd immunity. I don't know what countries you are looking at, but I live in one (the US) that is in the midst of a widespread exponential rise in infections that couldn't happen if we were close to herd immunity. And much of western Europe is in a similar boat (though a couple weeks further along). How do you explain the explosion of new cases and rapid rate of rise of new cases in places that have been extensively tested for months?

SHARK

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #666 on: November 15, 2020, 04:03:22 PM »
Heil Fauci!!!

“I was talking with my U.K. colleagues who are saying the U.K. is similar to where we are now, because each of our countries have that independent spirit,” he said on stage. “I can understand that, but now is the time to do what you’re told.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/fauci-says-us-has-independent-spirit-but-now-is-the-time-to-do-what-youre-told.html

Hmm...how about HELL FUCKING NO, you dickless little prick?

And this my friends is the cultural divide. Those who kneel vs. those who stand.

Greetings!

That's right, my friend! So many people want to be slaves. They feel safe and secure on their knees, begging. They enjoy being directed, and told what to do in every aspect of life. Socialism is for people that are essentially cattle. They are fat, bloated, and lazy. They do not want to work or think. They want to be taken care of by the government. Schooling, medical care, housing, food, a monthly check. They need someone else to make decisions for them. They are weak minded, and easily manipulated by emotions and controlled. Give them food, let them fuck and breed, and they are content, like cattle. Look at how hive-minded they are, and eager they embrace groupthink. They even chant the nonsense, over and over, like a spiritual mantra. These people don't want to think for themselves. They don't want to take responsibility for themselves--that's why they embrace a victim mentality, for everything in their lives, where everything terrible or pathetic in their life is someone else's fault--never the result of their own hedonism, their own selfishness and stupidity, their own lack of discipline, common sense, and respect for others, their own poor judgment and poor choices.

Deep down, they know they are weak, and they yearn to serve a master.

Just look at the 70 million or more people that voted for Biden and Kamala.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Agreed, with one exception.

Biden/Harris did not get 70 million or so votes. An honest audit of the election would/will show that they got 1/3 of that, at best.

Greetings!

Thank you, my friend! Yes, I also believe that the level of fraud in this election has been absolutely shameful! I can't imagine how someone who is ready for the retirement home and who got beat soundly in the debates could ever be considered a serious candidate. Furthermore, Biden didn't really "campaign" at all--but remained isolated in their basement--and when he did venture out to some event--he couldn't attract enough people to fill a high-school gym! Campaign enthusiasm is considered a *critical* factor for anyone to be elected, throughout our political history--and how the fuck does the campaign enthusiasm of Biden and Kamala compare to Trump? That's fucking laughable, and everyone knows it. The last time I knew a candidate that had the kind of popularity and enthusiasm that Trump has--it was President Reagan, and he won with a 49 state landslide! Yet somehow, the Liberal cock-sucking media, corrupt politicians, and other elites want US to believe that President Trump didn't win this election? Trump has been campaigning for *months* sometimes spending 16, 18 hours on the road, and appearing at rallies that have attracted huge attendance!! Trump also doesn't just show up in big cities--no, he also shows up in small towns off the beaten track--and huge numbers of voters show up to see him speak. Some of these people stand in line for HOURS or even in the rain--to get inside a Trump rally. FOR MONTHS this kind of campaign activity for Trump has gone on--but somehow, the Liberals wants us to believe that Biden won this election?

I just do not see it. I don't.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #667 on: November 15, 2020, 04:50:05 PM »
Break it down: You know you can't disagree with my statement that the case fatality rate is in the low per cent range because the data are irrefutable. And you know I said that the true infection fatality rate must be a factor of several lower (it is not well enough known to pin down but clearly somewhere in the range of a few, so it isn't worth arguing over whether the right factor is 2 or 5 or 7). And of course you realize that something like 1-2 % divided by a few is indistinguishable from your preferred number of 0.3 %. So, there is nothing there we disagree about.
I broke it down. You claimed the death rate was 2% in one place, which is completely and utterly wrong. Your other number is approximately correct (0.1-0.5% is typical), but it places the emphasis on a number ten times as large, so it's terribly misleading.

I already stated this.

It is completely possible that the case fatality rate for 50-somethings is 1-2 % AND that 90 % of fatalities happen in people over 70. These are not incompatible facts.
Even from a pure mathematical perspective, you'd need really extreme outliers for the average to be below the age of 90% of the cases. And that's simply not the case, given even a cursory understanding of how population groups are distributed.

Regarding the serum antibody tests, you seem to be agreeing that they have generally low results but there are various anecdotal reasons to hope that we are close to herd immunity. I don't know what countries you are looking at, but I live in one (the US) that is in the midst of a widespread exponential rise in infections that couldn't happen if we were close to herd immunity. And much of western Europe is in a similar boat (though a couple weeks further along). How do you explain the explosion of new cases and rapid rate of rise of new cases in places that have been extensively tested for months?
No, none of this is based on anecdotes. It's based on scientific studies that indicate that 20-50% of the people who report anosmia do not test positive for COVID-19 antibodies. Since that's a rare symptom, and is the single strongest indicator that someone has SARS2, that strongly supports the idea that the antibody tests are catching half, or likely considerably less, the people who have already been affected. This is easily explained, because the people with mild or no symptoms neutralize the disease with muscosal (IgA) antibodies, and may not develop enough IgG antibodies to be detected by the seurological tests, or the counts may drop below that threshold in a few weeks. But since these people have still developed T-cells capable of creating those antibodies, they still have an immune system defense, despite the negative tests.

A dozen or so studies, so I'm only linking a handful
https://swprs.org/coronavirus-antibody-tests-show-only-one-fifth-of-infections/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20130252v1
https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

It's also based on the numerous studies that came out in August showing that those affected by the SAR1 virus 20 years ago have cross-immunity with SARS2, indications that other coronaviruses may also provide cross immunity (children in particular may have had considerable exposures, since coronaviruses are one family in the complex of diseases that cause what we call the common cold), and various other analyses that indicate the traditional herd immunity threshold is way too high. See below for various arguments.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6505/846?_ga=2.106785153.3660080.1597510732-1307329675.1597510732
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160762v2
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v3
https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-tricky-math-of-covid-19-herd-immunity-20200630/
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077

I don't have a complete answer to the rise in new cases, but I'll note the rise in new cases in the US is especially evident in areas that largely escaped the viruses, in earlier waves.

Snowman0147

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #668 on: November 15, 2020, 04:58:37 PM »
Here are three absolute truths to remember by heart.

Episan didn't kill himself.

Covid 19 was blown way out of in portion to what it really was.

Biden had to cheat to win.


HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #669 on: November 15, 2020, 05:06:28 PM »
Here are three absolute truths to remember by heart.

Episan didn't kill himself.

Covid 19 was blown way out of in portion to what it really was.

Biden had to cheat to win.
The content of this post is disputed.

jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #670 on: November 15, 2020, 05:41:21 PM »
Agreed, with one exception.

Biden/Harris did not get 70 million or so votes. An honest audit of the election would/will show that they got 1/3 of that, at best.
Thank you, my friend! Yes, I also believe that the level of fraud in this election has been absolutely shameful! I can't imagine how someone who is ready for the retirement home and who got beat soundly in the debates could ever be considered a serious candidate. Furthermore, Biden didn't really "campaign" at all--but remained isolated in their basement--and when he did venture out to some event--he couldn't attract enough people to fill a high-school gym! Campaign enthusiasm is considered a *critical* factor for anyone to be elected, throughout our political history--and how the fuck does the campaign enthusiasm of Biden and Kamala compare to Trump? That's fucking laughable, and everyone knows it. The last time I knew a candidate that had the kind of popularity and enthusiasm that Trump has--it was President Reagan, and he won with a 49 state landslide!

OK, so RandyB's claim is that Biden actually got less than 23 million votes -- significantly less than Jimmy Carter's 35 million in 1980 with a much smaller population.

My key question is this:  Did Hillary Clinton really get 65 million votes - 3 million more than Trump - in 2016? I would suspect you'd say that Clinton also had massive fraud. But if the 2016 election also had massive fraud for the Democrats, then why did Trump and the Republicans do *nothing* to reform the election process when they had three-way control of the Presidency, Senate, and House from 2016 to 2018? Why were there no national investigations into fraud, let alone convictions?

Shasarak

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #671 on: November 15, 2020, 06:32:57 PM »
You essentially wrote a withering 1000 word, 10 link essay to say I was exactly correct about the true fatality rate (a factor of a few less than ~2 %), recapitulating all of the logic of an argument I made (but of course in a way that made it sound like I hadn't said it).

Your description of the age distribution issue is also consistent with what I said, though obviously you meant to make a different rhetorical point. Nothing you presented disagrees with the statement I made - that if you are mid-to-late middle age (~50) your case fatality rate (and by extension likely also your infection fatality rate) is on the order of the average value across the population. If you are truly elderly it is 10x higher or worse and if you are under 25 or so it is effectively zero. But if you are near the age I said than it is near the value I stated.

I guess 0.3% is near to 2% give or take a factor of 10.

 :-
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

Spinachcat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #672 on: November 15, 2020, 07:42:50 PM »
Biden/Harris did not get 70 million or so votes. An honest audit of the election would/will show that they got 1/3 of that, at best.

No. The fraud votes are less than 4 million.

It's important to accept that 70M-ish did vote for Harris/Biden. Why? Because they love the Nanny State and have no connection, no love, nor interest, in what made America the greatest nation in this history of the world. 

It's high time for Americans to accept we are in a culture war, and it's patriots on one side and on the other side, 70M willing followers of the globalist/Marxists in control of our schools, media and half (or more) of all politics. 

It's why balkanization - regardless even if Trump wins - must be seriously discussed and planned because the cultural divide is an unbridgeable chasm which will only become wider, deeper and more violent at a faster rate.

Snowman0147

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #673 on: November 15, 2020, 07:54:07 PM »
I am all for the midwest becoming its own country.  Maybe then the people in the cities can flee for greener pastures and leave the patriots alone.

EDIT:  By fleeing I mean ditching the midwest because there won't be a way to pay for all the social security programs.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 07:58:23 PM by Snowman0147 »

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #674 on: November 15, 2020, 09:10:35 PM »
It's important to accept that 70M-ish did vote for Harris/Biden. Why? Because they love the Nanny State and have no connection, no love, nor interest, in what made America the greatest nation in this history of the world. 
Don't confuse Tumblr with real life. Most of the people who voted for Biden did so because they don't like Trump, and want things to go back to normal. They just don't realize what that means when it comes to lockdowns, fracking, the green new deal, and critical race theory.