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Author Topic: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!  (Read 47779 times)

Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1170 on: January 23, 2022, 01:28:42 PM »
Depends. That person that didn't get vaxxed takes up an ICU bed that another patient could use.

And a specialist or maybe a whole ward that should be devoted to something else (like Gynaecology or Oncology). Nothing beats to see some specialist for your non-Covid problem at 9PM with them deadly tired.

You clearly have no idea how hospitals work.  A obgyn doesn't get "pulled" to work in a covid ward.

I clearly saw it happen. First, I have a cousin who is a big honcho in Gynaecology in a Florida hospital, and both she and other specialists were pulled from their daily jobs and sent in a "all hands on deck!" Covid emergency. Twice. I guess one can thank DeSantis for this change in the boring daily routine.

But, second, I don't even have to call my cousin, because I saw it happen live! I even wrote about it here (*). I was admitted in a Clinic for a (admittedly minor) surgery. At 10PM my specialist was explaining me the procedure. At 12PM I was told that I had to pack up and go home because the clinic had been declared a Covid ward and by 2:30PM it had to be ready for the first cases. Apparently the parent structure had been swamped with cases thanks to Omicron and the overflow kicked me back home. I'm still waiting for a new date.

In a way, both these cases show the divide between those who just had to confront the Real World(tm) and those who still have the luxury to be delusional. Pro tip: Covid and his impact happen in the Real World(tm).

The passage from delusion to reality, BTW, can be brutal. It usually generates appeals to the "Prayer Warriors" and disquieting posts on social media.

(*) Followers of this thread may remember how Kiero read about my misadventure and changed it to "Reckall had Covid" - thus giving us one more example of his reading comprehension problems.

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Your ignorant weaseling doesn't change the facts

You don't know how much I would be happy to be able to change the facts through my "ignorant weaseling"...

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the covid vaccine doesn't stop covid transfer.

Welcome to how vaccines work: the virus doesn't bounce off the body! Have you ever bothered to read beyond the first sentence?

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And US hospitals have more than enough beds

But of course. When do you project that the States will reach the "1,000,000 Dead but Free!" goalpost?
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1171 on: January 23, 2022, 02:32:52 PM »
What I don't get is the cognitive dissonance of those who demand someone else get vaccinated to protect them. 
Fear.

This is one of the rare cases when I agree with you. Fear, true. I feared Covid since that day when I was eating in my favoured pub and I heard at the radio "It has been confirmed that this new virus can be transmitted while the victim is still fully asymptomatic." It was one of those "where you were when you heard about the Challenger?" moments.

In these two years I have been accused of "living in fear", "panicking" and being a "fear monger", and all these accuses are true - my point being "you have to panic before you get Covid, not after." Panicking after only generates harrowing posts on social media.

I lost my father to Covid before vaccines were available. My mother came to live with us (we have a big house) but that meant that for a long time I had her to think about. Last thing I wanted was to bring her the virus. She was and still is our local version of far-right and yet now she is fully jabbed. I guess that losing your husband of decades to Covid sobers you a bit.

I had two close friends who got Covid. One before vaxes were available. He ended up with months of conjunctivitis - not the best for a comic book artist. Another was anti-vax. When he got Covid the lab test said "our test detects the presence of all known variants of Covid" - something I didn't know was even possible. It was almost fun to read (OK, I laughed). Of course he panicked, started making lunatic demands (like asking to be vaxxed at once - of course he had the basic knowledge of delusions about vaxes that you can find in many posts here) and peed in his bed for two weeks (out of fear, not Covid).

Now he is fine again - and it comes without saying that, since he didn't die, he is deriding Covid again (while searching on the internet when he will be able to get his first jab).

And... you know the fun thing? During these two years I was able to run a Call of Cthulhu campaign (*), go to the movies, eat again in my favourite pub, have a Summer vacation in France and, basically, have a semblance of normality in my life. Of course the pandemic sux and lockdowns and other restriction are not fun, and maybe you will get Covid anyway. But the precautions you have to take are exceedingly simple - as long as you are not an idiot.

And that's it. Yes, Pat, you are right. I'm fearing Covid right now. I look forward to the day I will not need to.

(*) An interesting side note from that campaign was that the investigators were involved in a car crash. The question "Did cars in the 1920s had seat belts?" spurned some research. It turned out that in the '20s you had to ask for belt as an optional. They became part of every car in the '50s. When this happened, screams of "seatbelts are against my freedom!" promptly arose and some smartos even cut them and made a point of throwing the seatbelt in front of the local Governor office (or mayor, or liege...) Note how their use wasn't even mandatory.

So, if precautions against caving your head in a car crash were "against freedom", imagine precautions against something much, much less dangerous - like a virus. Something out of Nazi Germany, obviously.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 02:34:28 PM by Reckall »
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Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1172 on: January 23, 2022, 03:00:26 PM »
And... you know the fun thing? During these two years I was able to run a Call of Cthulhu campaign (*), go to the movies, eat again in my favourite pub, have a Summer vacation in France and, basically, have a semblance of normality in my life. Of course the pandemic sux and lockdowns and other restriction are not fun, and maybe you will get Covid anyway. But the precautions you have to take are exceedingly simple - as long as you are not an idiot.
So what do you think those precautions are? Which ones work, and which ones don't? Also, how deadly is covid-19, because an effective response requires measuring the trade offs? You're using personal anecdotes, but those are just the equivalent of "but what about the children" screams. Policy needs to be based on data, not on fear.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1173 on: January 23, 2022, 04:33:27 PM »
I've enjoyed more than a "semblance" of normal life by ignoring the restrictions entirely and going about my business as much as I was able to.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1174 on: January 23, 2022, 04:36:41 PM »
Welcome to how vaccines work: the virus doesn't bounce off the body! Have you ever bothered to read beyond the first sentence?

You really are a fucking moron, aren't you? Real immunity prevents infection entirely. Yes, the measles vaccine is "only" 93% effective, as in only in 93% of instances does the virus "bounce off the body". But the 7% are instances where some quirk of the individual's immune system prevents it functioning the way it does for everyone else.

Meanwhile the covid jabs are only around 1% effective at preventing an infection, because they're not a vaccine. The flu jab manages somewhere between 5% and 40%, the latter in years they guess the strains right. It is at least harmless, whilst being useless, where the covid jabs are extremely harmful.

(*) An interesting side note from that campaign was that the investigators were involved in a car crash. The question "Did cars in the 1920s had seat belts?" spurned some research. It turned out that in the '20s you had to ask for belt as an optional. They became part of every car in the '50s. When this happened, screams of "seatbelts are against my freedom!" promptly arose and some smartos even cut them and made a point of throwing the seatbelt in front of the local Governor office (or mayor, or liege...) Note how their use wasn't even mandatory.

So, if precautions against caving your head in a car crash were "against freedom", imagine precautions against something much, much less dangerous - like a virus. Something out of Nazi Germany, obviously.

And of course you'd produce the retarded seatbelt analogy. Seatbelts actually work. They can be removed, you don't wear them all the time. Your lack of seatbelt doesn't affect the functioning of anyone else's seatbelt. There is literally no parallel between seatbelts and covid jabs.

Not that it stops smug twats producing this stupid analogy to "win" arguments. Even though it doesn't fit.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 04:39:54 PM by Kiero »
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Reckall

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1175 on: January 23, 2022, 05:06:10 PM »
And... you know the fun thing? During these two years I was able to run a Call of Cthulhu campaign (*), go to the movies, eat again in my favourite pub, have a Summer vacation in France and, basically, have a semblance of normality in my life. Of course the pandemic sux and lockdowns and other restriction are not fun, and maybe you will get Covid anyway. But the precautions you have to take are exceedingly simple - as long as you are not an idiot.
So what do you think those precautions are? Which ones work, and which ones don't? Also, how deadly is covid-19, because an effective response requires measuring the trade offs? You're using personal anecdotes, but those are just the equivalent of "but what about the children" screams. Policy needs to be based on data, not on fear.

But what if people refuse the data? The arguments against masks, social distancing, vax cards, the vax themselves and other idiocies that you see in this thread have been debunked over and over - to absolutely no effect for a significant chunk of the population. Only the Fear of Covid (I was about to write "the Fear of God" but those afflicted by Covid usually discover religion very fast) makes people change their views to whineful "Get vaxxed!" and "I was so wrong!" (these threads often have a grim ending and an explanation of how the dearly departed was an angel "always there for everyone" - something that makes you shudder when you think of the spread).

My "personal anecdotes" simply confirm what I read about. You can't say to me "Specialists can't be reassigned to Covid wards!!!11" not only when this is cited over and over among the most dire effects of the pandemic, but also when this is exactly what happened to me and I wrote about my experience here. Sorry but you just can't. Not to me. Not to people who see their cancer treatments and surgery postponed. Are they part of the fix? Hundreds of millions of people secretly agreed to con the rest of the planet? Dunno. Just hope that you will not need knee surgery during a Covid surge.

No, science doesn't deal with absolutes. Actually, history teaches that every time "Science" tried to do that it didn't end well. The doctor who said "You know? If we wash our hands before delivering a baby maybe we will cut the cases of puerperal fever!" ended up in an asylum (his name was Ignaz Semmelweis; check it out). And British doctors of the Royal Medical Society weren't dirty anyway. How do you dare?!

So, this is an example among many about why "Science Knows Everything" caused innumerable unnecessary death. True, you can get Covid even if vaxxed and all that jazz. And be sure that I disagree with those who deal in absolutes. "Vaccines will make you immune to Covid!!!11" was a very bad message. It only fueled the opposite view. Still, good info is out there if you want to find it. But if, after two years of pandemic, the same old, tired, debunked, sadder than a 60 years old boxer still trying to make a living on the ring arguments are still the best that "Masks =/= Freedom!!" have to offer, then why bother? Good luck.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 05:10:22 PM by Reckall »
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Pat

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1176 on: January 23, 2022, 07:07:55 PM »
So what do you think those precautions are? Which ones work, and which ones don't? Also, how deadly is covid-19, because an effective response requires measuring the trade offs? You're using personal anecdotes, but those are just the equivalent of "but what about the children" screams. Policy needs to be based on data, not on fear.

But what if people refuse the data? The arguments against masks, social distancing, vax cards, the vax themselves and other idiocies that you see in this thread have been debunked over and over - to absolutely no effect for a significant chunk of the population. Only the Fear of Covid (I was about to write "the Fear of God" but those afflicted by Covid usually discover religion very fast) makes people change their views to whineful "Get vaxxed!" and "I was so wrong!" (these threads often have a grim ending and an explanation of how the dearly departed was an angel "always there for everyone" - something that makes you shudder when you think of the spread).
To repeat: So what do you think those precautions are? Which ones work, and which ones don't? Also, how deadly is covid-19, because an effective response requires measuring the trade offs?

You're avoiding the question with emotional appeals and attacks, not information.

You can't say to me "Specialists can't be reassigned to Covid wards!!!11" ...
I didn't. So fuck off with that.

So, this is an example among many about why "Science Knows Everything" caused innumerable unnecessary death. True, you can get Covid even if vaxxed and all that jazz. And be sure that I disagree with those who deal in absolutes. "Vaccines will make you immune to Covid!!!11" was a very bad message. It only fueled the opposite view. Still, good info is out there if you want to find it. But if, after two years of pandemic, the same old, tired, debunked, sadder than a 60 years old boxer still trying to make a living on the ring arguments are still the best that "Masks =/= Freedom!!" have to offer, then why bother? Good luck.
I cut out most of it, but after all this emotional verbiage, you still haven't answered the questions.

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1177 on: January 24, 2022, 06:59:53 AM »
Covid is so deadly that in the UK there was barely an uptick in the all-cause mortality in 2020, and no change in the average age of death.

It was a bureaucratic pandemic of reclassification, not mass death.
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Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1178 on: January 24, 2022, 04:31:59 PM »
Geert Vanden Bossche is only a virologist, not a mathematician or behavioural psychologist, but he says these jabs don't contribute to herd immunity, and worse create variants: https://twitter.com/9thfloor/status/1485561327397576709
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3catcircus

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1179 on: January 24, 2022, 04:42:32 PM »
Geert Vanden Bossche is only a virologist, not a mathematician or behavioural psychologist, but he says these jabs don't contribute to herd immunity, and worse create variants: https://twitter.com/9thfloor/status/1485561327397576709

Yeah, God forbid we listen to experts quietly doing their work instead of attention-whore "experts." I'll have to dig up the clip of Fauci telling kids they can get AIDS just by being around people who have AIDS back in the 1980s...

Kiero

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1180 on: January 24, 2022, 04:45:14 PM »
Canadians, what's the deal with this trucker's convoy against jab mandates? The MSM is determined not to report on it.
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Zirunel

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Re: Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!
« Reply #1181 on: January 24, 2022, 08:06:05 PM »
Canadians, what's the deal with this trucker's convoy against jab mandates? The MSM is determined not to report on it.

It's being reported on plenty 'round here. What's your point?