This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 341690 times)

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #915 on: December 02, 2020, 07:11:44 PM »
Well, I did day one at running my testing site (still inactive) and I quit on the spot. The ineptitude in the administration was astounding, and the lack of training and equipment being offered was terrible. While I saw nothing in the testing that would indicate it would give false readings, there was a market push to get the clinics placed near wealthier neighborhoods and "get the word out" to them...and. while the tests are not particularly expensive, they are not free.
Are they just rushing the process, and if so why? And what was bad about the equipment?
Everything is rushed. No training standards and no dedicated preceptors/educators allotted to assist in training (at least none that didn't also say "fuck this, I'm out" like I did). Supply chain is non-existent (but I was assured it was "under development") and supplies were drawn from various sources without standardization. Why is it rushed? Because we gotta get people tested so they can have a Merry Christmas together... That's my cynical guess.
The public officials didn't get that shutting down non-essential businesses crippled the supply chains. That caused all kinds of problems for the labs doing the research at the start of this whole thing, and I guess they haven't learned. Not to mention all the businesses shuttering their doors for good. The testing requirements for travel were a joke over the Thanksgiving holiday. Some states were requiring a test within 3 days before arriving, but many of the tests were supposed to take 2 to 7 days before the results came back, and they often failed to meet their own standards, or slipped when it came to basics like notifying people.

Central planners at work.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #916 on: December 02, 2020, 07:18:52 PM »
Well, I did day one at running my testing site (still inactive) and I quit on the spot. The ineptitude in the administration was astounding, and the lack of training and equipment being offered was terrible. While I saw nothing in the testing that would indicate it would give false readings, there was a market push to get the clinics placed near wealthier neighborhoods and "get the word out" to them...and. while the tests are not particularly expensive, they are not free.
Are they just rushing the process, and if so why? And what was bad about the equipment?
Everything is rushed. No training standards and no dedicated preceptors/educators allotted to assist in training (at least none that didn't also say "fuck this, I'm out" like I did). Supply chain is non-existent (but I was assured it was "under development") and supplies were drawn from various sources without standardization. Why is it rushed? Because we gotta get people tested so they can have a Merry Christmas together... That's my cynical guess.
The public officials didn't get that shutting down non-essential businesses crippled the supply chains. That caused all kinds of problems for the labs doing the research at the start of this whole thing, and I guess they haven't learned. Not to mention all the businesses shuttering their doors for good. The testing requirements for travel were a joke over the Thanksgiving holiday. Some states were requiring a test within 3 days before arriving, but many of the tests were supposed to take 2 to 7 days before the results came back, and they often failed to meet their own standards, or slipped when it came to basics like notifying people.

Central planners at work.
No argument from me. Halfway though the day, the refrain of Kenny Roger's Gambler was echoing through my head. It was a tough call between walk away and run.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9487
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #917 on: December 02, 2020, 08:35:22 PM »
But this isn't about public vs. private. I know from experience that private schools are *full* of helicopter parents and sheltered little snowflakes. While private schools have higher test results, that is entirely from the kids being richer and having the best money can buy for them. When the same kids are put in public and private, their test scores are basically equal.
In Australia: no. It's demographics. Peers.

We've a website called MySchools which lets you look up and compare schools. There are three key numbers we can look at,

NAPLAN results. These are nationally-standardised tests. There are some issues with them, not everyone agrees with them - but they're what we have for comparing academic performance across schools.

Per student spending
- that's from both public and private sources, the numbers are all there

ICSEA distribution. That's the index of community and socioeconomic advantage, which is a measure of how well-off and well-educated the kids' parents are. They give a raw number to it which nobody understands, but also quartiles. The mythical perfectly-representative school would be 25-25-25-25, equal proportions from each quartile. A school in a poor area might be 65-20-10-5, a school in a well-off area 5-10-20-65. Let's just consider the top and bottom quartiles since the others tend to be in proportion.

When you look over enough schools, you find that the spending makes not much difference to the outcomes - but ICSEA is huge. Consider:

Kew Primary has 2% bottom quartile and 63% top. It gets $10,610 per student. As for results, grammar in year 5 is 505, and numeracy 518.

Broadmeadows Primary, on the other hand, has ICSEA 58/5, spending $14,533 per student, and year 5 grammar is 474 and numeracy 472. More money than Kew, but worse results. Why? Peers.

When you're paying for a private school, what you're really paying for is their peers - high ICSEA students. It's a way to ensure that your kids spend time with kids whose families are well-off and well-educated. Obviously if you want your kid to be a High Court judge some day then you're also paying for the networking etc - there's a pic floating around in Australia right now showing the Commonwealth Chief Medical Officer, the Attorney General and a couple of others drunk at uni together.

But aside from that, you're paying for peers. That $30k cheque you write each year is a filter - "we're keeping out the riff-raff!" Are your peers people whose parents push them towards excellence, or parents who don't expect much of them?

Of course, even the private schools are regulated by government, so people might blame their relative non-performance on that. That's possible, I suppose, but peers do matter a lot.



The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

SHARK

  • The Great Shark Hope
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5040
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #918 on: December 03, 2020, 05:26:04 AM »
Greetings!

Here, Salty Cracker goes off against the cock-sucking Marxist Democrats! Discusses the digital and information war against the Communists, the President's speech to America, and more.

Salty Cracker also discusses how James O'Keefe with Project Veritas has leaked conference calls involving the head of CNN and their executives. CNN has been fucking destroyed! A CNN executive discusses how *Cubans* love bullies, and the terrible Cubans in Florida are supporting President Trump. CNN's total cock-sucking for the Democrats is on full, public display. Some E-THOT chick said on Twitter that O'Keefe was a convicted felon. *Laughing* O'Keefe's lawyers got a hold of this bitch, and rekt her! She publicly apologized and admitted she was a lying cunt, deletted all of her damning, slanderous tweets against Project Veritas, and then evidently deleted her entire account. O'Keefe told her this was the most attention she was likely to ever get in her life, and she was done. She would be known as the woman that lied and claimed O'Keefe was a felon!

Salty Cracker discusses the Mac's Public House Bar resisting Governor Cuomo's tyranny in New York, and more resistance growing in New York by the day. In addition, a video is shown of Chris Cuomo, Nancy Pelosi, Governor Newsome, Mayor Lightfoot, and more going to dinners and events without wearing masks, and little or no "social distancing"--demonstrating that the people screaming for draconian lockdowns for the China virus know that it is all a fucking fraud and a sham, primarily designed to promote their government tyranny, control, and fear over a cowed and compliant population.

So much good discussion from Salty Cracker here, of course laced with truck loads of humour.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #919 on: December 03, 2020, 09:07:28 AM »
A modest proposal here: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-compassionate-anti-covid-strategy/

I await people screaming about how this will kill us all.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #920 on: December 03, 2020, 11:13:42 AM »
A modest proposal here: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-compassionate-anti-covid-strategy/

I await people screaming about how this will kill us all.
No, it won't kill us all. Overall, it makes good sense. There are some minor points in the proposed plan (which is really just a very rough draft/overview) that could use some adjustments, but it's not a bad basis to start from.

I do disagree about stopping working from home. When feasible, working from home should still be encouraged. However, each business needs to consider what is feasible. This can also come up with meetings. Many senior positions are held by persons in higher risk age groups, and extended face-to-face time in multi-person meetings can pose risks. Many such meetings were held remotely even before COVID to cut down on expenses, so there's no reason this shouldn't continue.

I would also recommend businesses selling essentials (like grocers, hardware stores, etc.) have limited access hours, say the first two hours of their day, focused on serving the vulnerable that might not be able to utilize delivery services. During these hours, control the number of shoppers, encourage/enforce (depending on local regulations) mask use, sanitize things, etc. Sure, those vulnerable going there are still taking a risk, but steps can be taken to minimize it while still allowing the businesses to return to normal operations for the majority of their operating hours.

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11746
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #921 on: December 03, 2020, 01:51:43 PM »
But this isn't about public vs. private. I know from experience that private schools are *full* of helicopter parents and sheltered little snowflakes. While private schools have higher test results, that is entirely from the kids being richer and having the best money can buy for them. When the same kids are put in public and private, their test scores are basically equal.
In Australia: no. It's demographics. Peers.

I don't know the Australian education data very well, but I do know the U.S. very well and have also studied combined international data.

ICSEA distribution. That's the index of community and socioeconomic advantage, which is a measure of how well-off and well-educated the kids' parents are. They give a raw number to it which nobody understands, but also quartiles. The mythical perfectly-representative school would be 25-25-25-25, equal proportions from each quartile. A school in a poor area might be 65-20-10-5, a school in a well-off area 5-10-20-65. Let's just consider the top and bottom quartiles since the others tend to be in proportion.

When you look over enough schools, you find that the spending makes not much difference to the outcomes - but ICSEA is huge. Consider:

Kew Primary has 2% bottom quartile and 63% top. It gets $10,610 per student. As for results, grammar in year 5 is 505, and numeracy 518.

Broadmeadows Primary, on the other hand, has ICSEA 58/5, spending $14,533 per student, and year 5 grammar is 474 and numeracy 472. More money than Kew, but worse results. Why? Peers.

This is conflating *individual* performance with the effect of *peers*. Rich kids with well-educated parents perform better than poor kids, and that's true regardless of what school they go to, and also regardless of who their peers are. That effect alone will cause rich schools to have higher averages.

For me personally, my older sisters went to K-12 public schools (as my parents were still struggling to repay medical school) - while as the youngest I went to a posh private school. My sisters still scored well and went to Yale and UPenn for undergrad, while I scored well and went to University of Chicago.

In order to look at the peer effect, you have to separate out the statistics to look at only the rich kids within Broadmeadows, or only the poor kids within Kew. In the U.S., they don't separate out statistics this way as well - but there are some limited-case studies that let us look into that. Notably, some states have randomly given certain public school students paid scholarships to private schools. There are some instances of gains - but they're mixed and small.

In other places where they separated out socio-economic class, individual performance has been shown to be a far greater effect than any peer effect. And in some cases, there is a *negative* peer effect. For example, take a poor struggling student - and supposedly "lift him up" by putting him in with a bunch of genius kids as peers -- but that just makes the struggling student fail more.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 07:29:54 PM by jhkim »

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5289
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #922 on: December 03, 2020, 08:39:49 PM »

There is no reason for NASA to be involved in 'Muslim outreach'. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. The only reason to implement such imbecilic 'duhversity' systems is to infect and cannibalize the organization until it is nothing more than a shell of its former self.

Non sequitur. You're not even referring to anything Biden said. That Muslim Outreach thing was not even this year for fuck's sake! We're talking about the claim that Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to President. This Muslim Outreach bullshit has nothing to do with that.

Quote
Bitching about how 'oh well that's not scrapping' is pointless semantics, and you know it, because I can't imagine a reason otherwise for you to plant your flag on this hill. If this status quo persists, NASA will no longer exist as a force for space exploration and development. It'll limp along for a while, continuing its mission of 'duhversity' until some bean counter with more sense than you puts it out of its misery.

So why don't you just get back to slobbering Biden's knob like a good little bitch? It's all you're good at.

Show me where Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to the Presidency. Stop spinning bullshit and show me where Biden made a promise to scrap NASA if elected. This should be super simple. It should be a sentence you can find to quote Biden where he says something along the lines of "If elected, I will end NASA." Or even something vaguely similar to that. Not "I will change some of it's priorities" show me a PROMISE to SCRAP NASA in the FUTURE (as in "If elected").

consolcwby

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Feel the despair!
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #923 on: December 03, 2020, 11:11:27 PM »

There is no reason for NASA to be involved in 'Muslim outreach'. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. The only reason to implement such imbecilic 'duhversity' systems is to infect and cannibalize the organization until it is nothing more than a shell of its former self.

Non sequitur. You're not even referring to anything Biden said. That Muslim Outreach thing was not even this year for fuck's sake! We're talking about the claim that Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to President. This Muslim Outreach bullshit has nothing to do with that.

Quote
Bitching about how 'oh well that's not scrapping' is pointless semantics, and you know it, because I can't imagine a reason otherwise for you to plant your flag on this hill. If this status quo persists, NASA will no longer exist as a force for space exploration and development. It'll limp along for a while, continuing its mission of 'duhversity' until some bean counter with more sense than you puts it out of its misery.

So why don't you just get back to slobbering Biden's knob like a good little bitch? It's all you're good at.

Show me where Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to the Presidency. Stop spinning bullshit and show me where Biden made a promise to scrap NASA if elected. This should be super simple. It should be a sentence you can find to quote Biden where he says something along the lines of "If elected, I will end NASA." Or even something vaguely similar to that. Not "I will change some of it's priorities" show me a PROMISE to SCRAP NASA in the FUTURE (as in "If elected").
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/jwtwvm/sorry_steve_carrell_biden_pressured_to_scrap/
links to: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/18/joe-biden-pressured-scrap-space-force/
Just in case you forgot what a link is...
I've also read somewhere that the same people want NASA scrapped as well. So... resume with your incoherent rant please. It makes me laugh! (And heavens knows we all need a good laugh!)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 11:13:13 PM by consolcwby »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------                    snip                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                  https://youtu.be/ShaxpuohBWs?si

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #924 on: December 04, 2020, 06:21:03 PM »

There is no reason for NASA to be involved in 'Muslim outreach'. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. The only reason to implement such imbecilic 'duhversity' systems is to infect and cannibalize the organization until it is nothing more than a shell of its former self.

Non sequitur. You're not even referring to anything Biden said. That Muslim Outreach thing was not even this year for fuck's sake! We're talking about the claim that Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to President. This Muslim Outreach bullshit has nothing to do with that.

Quote
Bitching about how 'oh well that's not scrapping' is pointless semantics, and you know it, because I can't imagine a reason otherwise for you to plant your flag on this hill. If this status quo persists, NASA will no longer exist as a force for space exploration and development. It'll limp along for a while, continuing its mission of 'duhversity' until some bean counter with more sense than you puts it out of its misery.

So why don't you just get back to slobbering Biden's knob like a good little bitch? It's all you're good at.

Show me where Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to the Presidency. Stop spinning bullshit and show me where Biden made a promise to scrap NASA if elected. This should be super simple. It should be a sentence you can find to quote Biden where he says something along the lines of "If elected, I will end NASA." Or even something vaguely similar to that. Not "I will change some of it's priorities" show me a PROMISE to SCRAP NASA in the FUTURE (as in "If elected").
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/jwtwvm/sorry_steve_carrell_biden_pressured_to_scrap/
links to: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/18/joe-biden-pressured-scrap-space-force/
Just in case you forgot what a link is...
I've also read somewhere that the same people want NASA scrapped as well. So... resume with your incoherent rant please. It makes me laugh! (And heavens knows we all need a good laugh!)
He's flailing and desperately trying to narrow the scope down so he can declare victory.

I wonder if it's dawned on him that it's the results I give a shit about, not the declarations or intentions.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #925 on: December 04, 2020, 06:24:35 PM »

There is no reason for NASA to be involved in 'Muslim outreach'. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. The only reason to implement such imbecilic 'duhversity' systems is to infect and cannibalize the organization until it is nothing more than a shell of its former self.

Non sequitur. You're not even referring to anything Biden said. That Muslim Outreach thing was not even this year for fuck's sake! We're talking about the claim that Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to President. This Muslim Outreach bullshit has nothing to do with that.

Quote
Bitching about how 'oh well that's not scrapping' is pointless semantics, and you know it, because I can't imagine a reason otherwise for you to plant your flag on this hill. If this status quo persists, NASA will no longer exist as a force for space exploration and development. It'll limp along for a while, continuing its mission of 'duhversity' until some bean counter with more sense than you puts it out of its misery.

So why don't you just get back to slobbering Biden's knob like a good little bitch? It's all you're good at.

Show me where Biden promised to scrap NASA if elected to the Presidency. Stop spinning bullshit and show me where Biden made a promise to scrap NASA if elected. This should be super simple. It should be a sentence you can find to quote Biden where he says something along the lines of "If elected, I will end NASA." Or even something vaguely similar to that. Not "I will change some of it's priorities" show me a PROMISE to SCRAP NASA in the FUTURE (as in "If elected").
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/jwtwvm/sorry_steve_carrell_biden_pressured_to_scrap/
links to: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/18/joe-biden-pressured-scrap-space-force/
Just in case you forgot what a link is...
I've also read somewhere that the same people want NASA scrapped as well. So... resume with your incoherent rant please. It makes me laugh! (And heavens knows we all need a good laugh!)
He's flailing and desperately trying to narrow the scope down so he can declare victory.

I wonder if it's dawned on him that it's the results I give a shit about, not the declarations or intentions.
If you're going to go that way, what are current results of Biden's impending presidency on NASA? Not what you think he might do--just the verifiable results.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #926 on: December 04, 2020, 11:29:00 PM »
Biden needs to figure out how to play with his dog without sustaining multiple fractures before he can give too much bandwidth to NASA I think.

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11746
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #927 on: December 05, 2020, 01:18:38 AM »
I wonder if it's dawned on him that it's the results I give a shit about, not the declarations or intentions.
If you're going to go that way, what are current results of Biden's impending presidency on NASA? Not what you think he might do--just the verifiable results.

I'd think the best measure would be the verifiable results of what happened to NASA under the Obama-Biden administration. Not select quotes of what some Obama official said, but the actual results. I wasn't actually sure about this, so I looked up some out of curiosity.

https://www.space.com/35394-president-obama-spaceflight-exploration-legacy.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

Looks like there's some criticism of scrapping plans of more Moon missions, but there was also development of the HLV and accelerated plans to get to asteroids and Mars. The NASA budget rose in 2010, but did shrink from 2012 to 2014, and then grew again in the last two years. The budget did grow under Trump, so I'll buy that Trump was better for NASA in that sense -- but that is not at all the same as saying Biden would scrap the whole thing.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #928 on: December 05, 2020, 04:40:45 PM »
I wonder if it's dawned on him that it's the results I give a shit about, not the declarations or intentions.
If you're going to go that way, what are current results of Biden's impending presidency on NASA? Not what you think he might do--just the verifiable results.

I'd think the best measure would be the verifiable results of what happened to NASA under the Obama-Biden administration. Not select quotes of what some Obama official said, but the actual results. I wasn't actually sure about this, so I looked up some out of curiosity.

https://www.space.com/35394-president-obama-spaceflight-exploration-legacy.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

Looks like there's some criticism of scrapping plans of more Moon missions, but there was also development of the HLV and accelerated plans to get to asteroids and Mars. The NASA budget rose in 2010, but did shrink from 2012 to 2014, and then grew again in the last two years. The budget did grow under Trump, so I'll buy that Trump was better for NASA in that sense -- but that is not at all the same as saying Biden would scrap the whole thing.

There's a lot of -plans-, and budgetary fun. But how many launches? How many new footprints, how many new satellites and probes?

The budget in general isn't a good metric to judge by. If they pour the money into stupid shit, it doesn't make any difference.

Meanwhile, SpaceX keeps chugging away.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9487
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #929 on: December 05, 2020, 06:35:41 PM »
I remember old Drumpf had asked NASA, when he started, if they could do a manned lunar flyby by late 2018. They said no. That was two years he gave them. Of course, it's been another two years since. Four years in all. By contrast, consider what the US achieved from JFK's speech in May 1961 to May 1965. Let's not speak of 1965-69. Ahem.

Fifty years on, the US is unable to do what it did fifty years ago. It's like the contrast between Afghanistan and Vietnam - it takes you longer and costs you more money to lose a war than it used to.

It's sad, really.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver