This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 32682 times)

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 3052
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #735 on: November 19, 2020, 01:48:17 pm »
Masking involves both wearing a mask and developing the discipline to not keep fucking with it. As for changing the vector, what the fuck do you think all of the hand sanitizer is supposed to be for? See how each step works together? And the nasty bacteria in the mask? That's stuff you already have inside you--the mask is unlikely to be a better environment for it to grow than your own respiratory tract.
Except the best evidence right now is that masks don't work. They could help a little, but the effect is small enough it's hard to isolate. It's a couple pages back now, but I posted a lot of links to the research in reply #696.
That's not exactly what your sources say (I just read over all of them). They note that masks are largely ineffective as a protective measure, but may still offer some measure of source control (protecting others from what the mask wearer exhales). They also point out that cloth masks are considerably less effective for these purposes than surgical/procedural masks (no surprise there). Neither of these conflicts with what I've said.

The ideal way to use masking is to combine a quality mask (or, preferrably, a respirator) with education on how to wear it correctly and building up the discipline to make consistent use of that knowledge. This is very hard to do even in a closed setting, but gets much harder in the wild.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3489
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #736 on: November 19, 2020, 01:49:25 pm »
Except the best evidence right now is that masks don't work. They could help a little, but the effect is small enough it's hard to isolate. It's a couple pages back now, but I posted a lot of links to the research in reply #696.

Oh look, Pat is full of utter horseshit.

"Limitation: Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others. Conclusion: The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection."
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 02:37:02 pm by Mistwell »

Larsdangly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • L
  • Posts: 1791
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #737 on: November 19, 2020, 01:57:31 pm »
A useful link that quickly summarizes and provides links re. the latest understanding of the infection fatality rate:

https://fullfact.org/health/toby-young-ifr-tweet/

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #738 on: November 19, 2020, 02:23:20 pm »
A useful link that quickly summarizes and provides links re. the latest understanding of the infection fatality rate:

https://fullfact.org/health/toby-young-ifr-tweet/
I'd like to see what they're using for raw data. Again, there are issues with how Covid hits people with multiple comorbidities, and there have been irregularities in reporting (flagging people as Covid deaths when they died of completely unrelated issues, if they had the virus).

Let's not even get into how the tests seem to be having accuracy issues.

SHARK

  • Great White Hope
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2650
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #739 on: November 19, 2020, 03:47:49 pm »
Greetings!

Dan, of Heavy Duty Country, discusses Covid, Mask wearing, and politics.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Snowman0147

  • Now Even More Frosty
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2967
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #740 on: November 19, 2020, 04:00:36 pm »
My nephew tested positive for Covid and his family went lockdown.  During those two weeks no one else got sick and this is a tiny household of two children, one 18 year old, and my sister.  The chances of them not being sick is slim to none.  So my nephew retook the test and found out he doesn't have Covid and the first test was a false positive.  He just had a flu.  Seriously you can't trust these tests and it had been a month with still no Covid.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 3052
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #741 on: November 19, 2020, 04:23:56 pm »
My nephew tested positive for Covid and his family went lockdown.  During those two weeks no one else got sick and this is a tiny household of two children, one 18 year old, and my sister.  The chances of them not being sick is slim to none.  So my nephew retook the test and found out he doesn't have Covid and the first test was a false positive.  He just had a flu.  Seriously you can't trust these tests and it had been a month with still no Covid.
Yes, folks, false positives do happen. No, that doesn't mean that testing is worthless. It should be noted that false positives (and false negatives) can and do occur with every type of testing done. We don't abandon medicine just because it's not perfect.

consolcwby

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
  • Feel the despair!
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #742 on: November 19, 2020, 11:29:20 pm »
My nephew tested positive for Covid and his family went lockdown.  During those two weeks no one else got sick and this is a tiny household of two children, one 18 year old, and my sister.  The chances of them not being sick is slim to none.  So my nephew retook the test and found out he doesn't have Covid and the first test was a false positive.  He just had a flu.  Seriously you can't trust these tests and it had been a month with still no Covid.
Yes, folks, false positives do happen. No, that doesn't mean that testing is worthless. It should be noted that false positives (and false negatives) can and do occur with every type of testing done. We don't abandon medicine just because it's not perfect.
Every year, thousands die from the normal flu. Question: Why is it only now that we are wearing masks? Wasn't the lives of millions of people over the last 100 years important? Why shouldn't we have all lived in a bubble since birth? Why stop all human norms now until those who profit from this misery tell the masses it is now okay to stop? And what about this: https://www.britannica.com/event/1968-flu-pandemic
Why was no one forced to wear anything back then?

The Answer: <Fill this blank in a rational, logical, and scientific manner discussing all relevant information please>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------                    snip                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                   https://youtu.be/Br3LRj2pwAs

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14040
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #743 on: November 20, 2020, 02:58:08 am »
If you're going to throw up sources, try reading them and understanding them first.

BOLD is mine.

About 4,860 participants completed the study. The researchers had hoped that masks would cut the infection rate by half among wearers. Instead, 42 people in the mask group, or 1.8 percent, got infected, compared with 53 in the unmasked group, or 2.1 percent. The difference was not statistically significant.

“Our study gives an indication of how much you gain from wearing a mask,” said Dr. Henning Bundgaard, lead author of the study and a cardiologist at the University of Copenhagen. “Not a lot.”

Dr. Mette Kalager, a researcher at Telemark Hospital in Norway and the Harvard School of Public Health, was persuaded. The study showed that “although there might be a symbolic effect,” she wrote in an email, “the effect of wearing a mask does not substantially reduce risk” for wearers.


So...the SCIENCE yet again proves Masks = Bullshit.

...Except for the SYMBOLIC EFFECT (of identifying the sheep)

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14040
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #744 on: November 20, 2020, 03:05:35 am »
If you look at the details, which is what matters, you will find Biden does not support most of the objectionable portions of the Green New Deal.

There is no Biden.

Dementia JoJo didn't even know what his policies were when they let him out of the basement to mumble some gaffes to a dozen bored reporters.

However, his handlers are VERY pro-Green New Deal and have made that abundantly clear.

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14040
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #745 on: November 20, 2020, 03:21:21 am »
No HappyDaze doesn't just want to be ruled.  He wants to make the big bucks by profiting out of our misery.  Straight up 8th circle in hell shit right here.

Did anyone expect HappyDaze to NOT be a sellout? He's made it clear he'll bend the knee to anything so at least this time he's pocketing some pennies while knelt to ground.

But healthcare managers becoming grifters is a common career path. When I was headhunting in the senior care industry, sleazebags were a dime-a-dozen and eager to sell your grandma's quality of life for profit points on a spreadsheet.

And there's plenty of government cash if you're helping push and justify the CoronaChan tyranny. When HappyDaze makes sure his "testing" center produces lots of "cases", he might get promoted next to a mandatory vaccination center.

Of course, that promotion comes with hazard pay and extra life insurance...

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14040
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #746 on: November 20, 2020, 03:27:44 am »
Increasingly stupid motherfuckers like Gavin Newsom and Lori Lightfoot, who declare draconian lockdowns and then wipe their asses with their decrees?

They're not stupid. They just know the majority will kneel and obey. It's become a game of "our leaders" flaunting the lockdowns and then watching the sheep beg for more lockdowns. We have a nation full of people begging for their own destruction, so why not give it to them?

Look at it from the Newsom, Pelosi or Bettlejuice perspective. When you know the sheep won't stand, why let your own "rules" get in the way of having a good time?

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #747 on: November 20, 2020, 03:37:44 am »
BOLD is mine.

About 4,860 participants completed the study. The researchers had hoped that masks would cut the infection rate by half among wearers. Instead, 42 people in the mask group, or 1.8 percent, got infected, compared with 53 in the unmasked group, or 2.1 percent. The difference was not statistically significant.


Spinachcat - I will try to explain again. But this is looking only at the reverse of the usual direction. A surgeon wears a mask not to protect himself from infection, but to prevent the *patient* from infection. The primary effect of masks is to prevent people who are sick from coughing, sneezing, or otherwise getting infected water droplets on *other people*. Your mask doesn't do a lot to protect *you*, but it does significantly more to protect everyone *from* you if you are infected.

There are lots of studies showing the effectiveness of masks at preventing others from being infected by a masked carrier of the disease, showing it can reduce infection rates by 30%.

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=27691&publicId=395
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/face-mask-mandates-effective-slowing-covid-19-study/63-0827084d-8e6b-4c80-92de-8f78b422de63


Wearing masks has been the norm for many years now in Korea and Japan. If anyone feels any sign of being sick, they put on a mask to avoid coughing or otherwise infecting others. And both of those countries have been doing *much* better both economically and in infection rates compared to both the U.S. and Europe. I was in South Korea in February when covid was just getting started. Within just days of the outbreak, almost everyone was wearing masks. It's not about a mandate or obedience - people there are just really self-conscious about disease and protecting others.

Kiero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #748 on: November 20, 2020, 05:10:55 am »
Masking involves both wearing a mask and developing the discipline to not keep fucking with it. As for changing the vector, what the fuck do you think all of the hand sanitizer is supposed to be for? See how each step works together? And the nasty bacteria in the mask? That's stuff you already have inside you--the mask is unlikely to be a better environment for it to grow than your own respiratory tract.

Because of course people are washing their masks and hands regularly... Must be a wonderful dreamworld you live in, where people do all the things they are supposed to.

Your bacterial flora are under control when inside your body. Change the conditions on the outside, however, and it's a different story. The flora on your skin evolved exposed to the air, not covered by fabric. That's why some people suffer badly from body odour. You can get staph infections on your face where the mask is preventing proper ventilation, and Legionnaire's and other lovely things can breed in the fabric where you are repeatedly breathing warm, moist, bacteria-laden air into it.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 3052
    • View Profile
Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #749 on: November 20, 2020, 06:25:05 am »
BOLD is mine.

About 4,860 participants completed the study. The researchers had hoped that masks would cut the infection rate by half among wearers. Instead, 42 people in the mask group, or 1.8 percent, got infected, compared with 53 in the unmasked group, or 2.1 percent. The difference was not statistically significant.


Spinachcat - I will try to explain again. But this is looking only at the reverse of the usual direction. A surgeon wears a mask not to protect himself from infection, but to prevent the *patient* from infection. The primary effect of masks is to prevent people who are sick from coughing, sneezing, or otherwise getting infected water droplets on *other people*. Your mask doesn't do a lot to protect *you*, but it does significantly more to protect everyone *from* you if you are infected.

There are lots of studies showing the effectiveness of masks at preventing others from being infected by a masked carrier of the disease, showing it can reduce infection rates by 30%.

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=27691&publicId=395
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/face-mask-mandates-effective-slowing-covid-19-study/63-0827084d-8e6b-4c80-92de-8f78b422de63


Wearing masks has been the norm for many years now in Korea and Japan. If anyone feels any sign of being sick, they put on a mask to avoid coughing or otherwise infecting others. And both of those countries have been doing *much* better both economically and in infection rates compared to both the U.S. and Europe. I was in South Korea in February when covid was just getting started. Within just days of the outbreak, almost everyone was wearing masks. It's not about a mandate or obedience - people there are just really self-conscious about disease and protecting others.
I don't think he wants to understand.