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Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

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Kiero:
For the time being at least, in England (not the whole of the UK) the covid charade ends next Thursday. All the "Plan B" restrictions which were never justified in the first place are being dropped. The biggest wailing of all from the covidian cultists is that mask wearing is no longer "mandated". Which means only the virtue-signalling tossers and cowards will still be muzzled in public.

I still retain my perfect record of never having worn a mask and never owning one.

Shasarak:

--- Quote from: Zelen on January 20, 2022, 09:13:17 PM ---Remember when medical professionals cared about the Hippocratic oath, "First, do no harm"? I guess these days the oath is, "I think this works even though there's no data to support it, just do what I say or the policeman will break your jaw for your own safety."

--- End quote ---

I think you misspelled Hypocritic oath

Mistwell:

--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 20, 2022, 05:20:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mistwell on January 19, 2022, 04:22:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelen on January 19, 2022, 12:10:15 AM ---If masks help, why do RCTs not (on balance) show they help? Surely if they helped, then the evidence would consistently show this, rather than null/negative effect?

--- End quote ---

For every legit study showing they don't help there are more legit studies showing they do help. Whenever someone posts one of those studies showing they do help here, people nitpick it in a way they don't nitpick the studies showing it doesn't help. So the answer to your question is confirmation bias.

--- End quote ---

This is so false as to almost be a direct lie.  There are 26 RCT studies of mask usage cited in various CDC publications (almost none of which deal with SARS-Covid-19 directly, as to be expected considering the timeline that such trials have).  Over 75% show weak or no correlation.  The Bangladesh study and the Danish studies, even if taken at face value, provide little support for either conclusion.  Most medical studies are done at p<0.05, which means that there is only a 1-in-20 chance of the correlation being mechanically wrong (the process or conclusions, however...).  Do enough studies, and your 1-in-20 chances will start popping up.  It's not that surprising, then, that one of the 26 studies cited (the Bangladesh study) goes against the data from the rest.  One, or even a handful, of studies does not prove ANYTHING.  You need consistent, reproducible, results to start drawing any conclusions... which we don't have.  So, until such time as the RCT studies on mask-wearing are clear, reproducible, and overwhelmingly in favor, no efficacy of masks has been proven at all...

--- End quote ---

When I clicked your link...oh wait. Right. Just more bullshit assertions from some bullshit article you read some time in the past from some bullshit source from your bubble spinning more bullshit.

If you want to prove what you're claiming, provide a link to a non-insane or non-clickbait website. And note I never claimed "cited in various" anything. I said studies show masks help. Not that they "prevent you from getting covid" because most of the studies I am referring to say they reduce the chance you will SPREAD covid to someone else. People love to call out studies claiming masks don't stop you from GETTING covid and pretend that's where the discussion of masks end when they know full well the claim is more typically that they help reduce the spread of covid from you outward.

Like, for example, this evidence review of face masks against COVID-19, stating, "The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts".

My guess is you will ignore all that, and again repeat that masks don't prevent you from receiving covid. Though you will know it's you misrepresenting everything I just said. Because you don't have jack shit on your side of this debate.

Kiero:
How do you maskholes explain mask mandates causing "cases" to go up? And relaxation of restrictions, including masks, causing them to go down?

Not studies or "models", but real world observation.

Pat:

--- Quote from: Mistwell on January 21, 2022, 05:32:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 20, 2022, 05:20:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mistwell on January 19, 2022, 04:22:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelen on January 19, 2022, 12:10:15 AM ---If masks help, why do RCTs not (on balance) show they help? Surely if they helped, then the evidence would consistently show this, rather than null/negative effect?

--- End quote ---

For every legit study showing they don't help there are more legit studies showing they do help. Whenever someone posts one of those studies showing they do help here, people nitpick it in a way they don't nitpick the studies showing it doesn't help. So the answer to your question is confirmation bias.

--- End quote ---

This is so false as to almost be a direct lie.  There are 26 RCT studies of mask usage cited in various CDC publications (almost none of which deal with SARS-Covid-19 directly, as to be expected considering the timeline that such trials have).  Over 75% show weak or no correlation.  The Bangladesh study and the Danish studies, even if taken at face value, provide little support for either conclusion.  Most medical studies are done at p<0.05, which means that there is only a 1-in-20 chance of the correlation being mechanically wrong (the process or conclusions, however...).  Do enough studies, and your 1-in-20 chances will start popping up.  It's not that surprising, then, that one of the 26 studies cited (the Bangladesh study) goes against the data from the rest.  One, or even a handful, of studies does not prove ANYTHING.  You need consistent, reproducible, results to start drawing any conclusions... which we don't have.  So, until such time as the RCT studies on mask-wearing are clear, reproducible, and overwhelmingly in favor, no efficacy of masks has been proven at all...

--- End quote ---

When I clicked your link...oh wait. Right. Just more bullshit assertions from some bullshit article you read some time in the past from some bullshit source from your bubble spinning more bullshit.

If you want to prove what you're claiming, provide a link to a non-insane or non-clickbait website. And note I never claimed "cited in various" anything. I said studies show masks help. Not that they "prevent you from getting covid" because most of the studies I am referring to say they reduce the chance you will SPREAD covid to someone else. People love to call out studies claiming masks don't stop you from GETTING covid and pretend that's where the discussion of masks end when they know full well the claim is more typically that they help reduce the spread of covid from you outward.

Like, for example, this evidence review of face masks against COVID-19, stating, "The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts".

My guess is you will ignore all that, and again repeat that masks don't prevent you from receiving covid. Though you will know it's you misrepresenting everything I just said. Because you don't have jack shit on your side of this debate.

--- End quote ---
I've certainly linked to them before, as well as providing thorough summaries. Remember what happened, every time? You went silent, and stopped responding. Then, pages later, when you believed everyone had forgotten how your posts were thoroughly debunked, you popped up again to post the same ignorant nonsense.

And I like the way you attempt to preemptively discredit anyone who disagrees with you with the "non-insane or non-clickbait" claim. If you can't win an argument, I guess it's really important to insinuate anyone who dares to reply to you is insane.

Let's see:

2019 WHO meta-study (of 10 other studies). Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/non-pharmaceutical-public-health-measuresfor-mitigating-the-risk-and-impact-of-epidemic-and-pandemic-influenza
2020 CDC meta-study. Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
2020 Danmask study (RCT with 6000 participants). Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
2020 another large RCT (8000 participants). Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0240287
2020 Oxford review. Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
2021 Review by the European CDC. Conclusion: No strong evidence in favor of masks (but we recommend them anyway... because reasons). https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf
Another 2020 review. Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_do-physical-measures-such-hand-washing-or-wearing-masks-stop-or-slow-down-spread-respiratory-viruses
2021 survey of mask use in US states. Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://escipub.com/irjph-2021-08-1005/
2021 study of the physics of masks. Conclusion: At best, masks indoor reduce aerosolized particles by 12%. At worst, they increase them. https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0057100
2021 study in the NEJM. Conclusion: Masks don't work. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

I assume you'll dismiss them all, because clearly the CDC, the European CDC, the WHO, the New England Journal of Medicine, the British Medical Journal, and Oxford are insane clickbait sites and nobody should trust anyone who dares to link any of them.

Unlike your source, which we know is good because it's dated 5 day in the future, and anything involving time travel is always 100% legit.

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