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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 215281 times)

3catcircus

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3720 on: January 16, 2022, 02:18:05 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.

And *that's* the whole point - all of the cloth masks and surgical masks have done fuck-all in terms of trying to prevent transmission.  They're not fitted tight enough even if the weave were tight enough for electrostatics or quantum effects to drive their ability to capture particles.  COVID is transmitted primarily by aerosol, just like flu, rhinovirus, adenovirus, or other coronaviruses.  The "experts" knew this very early on yet still told people to alternatively not wear masks and to wear masks.  FOIA requests resulted in  release of an email from Fauci to some other government drone telling her that the typical drugstore masks aren't doing anything.

It's that flip-flopping when caught in a lie that has resulted in the erosion of trust.

If you really wanted to have an effective lockdown, you'd have announced that COVID is airborne and that the police would shoot on sight anyone found out on the streets with no good reason ( I actually have a letter from SECDEF from 2020 that I was to show the authorities in the event that I was pulled over by local law enforcement on my way to/from work...)  Even then you wouldn't have stopped it.  Viruses gonna virus:. spread as best they can, replicate as best they can, and if they kill their host too often, they tone it down so that they'll continue to spread and replicate...

There are tons of viruses that *all* people spread to each other on a daily basis.  Most of them happy to just replicate without causing illness to anything other than the tons of bacteria in and on us. 

dkabq

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3721 on: January 16, 2022, 04:09:57 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.

And *that's* the whole point - all of the cloth masks and surgical masks have done fuck-all in terms of trying to prevent transmission.  They're not fitted tight enough even if the weave were tight enough for electrostatics or quantum effects to drive their ability to capture particles.  COVID is transmitted primarily by aerosol, just like flu, rhinovirus, adenovirus, or other coronaviruses.  The "experts" knew this very early on yet still told people to alternatively not wear masks and to wear masks.  FOIA requests resulted in  release of an email from Fauci to some other government drone telling her that the typical drugstore masks aren't doing anything.

It's that flip-flopping when caught in a lie that has resulted in the erosion of trust.

If you really wanted to have an effective lockdown, you'd have announced that COVID is airborne and that the police would shoot on sight anyone found out on the streets with no good reason ( I actually have a letter from SECDEF from 2020 that I was to show the authorities in the event that I was pulled over by local law enforcement on my way to/from work...)  Even then you wouldn't have stopped it.  Viruses gonna virus:. spread as best they can, replicate as best they can, and if they kill their host too often, they tone it down so that they'll continue to spread and replicate...

There are tons of viruses that *all* people spread to each other on a daily basis.  Most of them happy to just replicate without causing illness to anything other than the tons of bacteria in and on us.

And that is why all of the science (and the CDC) pre-covid said masking was not recommended for the general public. The suddenly, SCIENCE!(tm) happened during March and April 2020 that said to wear a cloth or surgical mask. The embodiment of SCIENCE!(tm) himself, St. Facui, was at one point saying you should wear two masks.

I have one of those letter too, except mine is from a lower level bureaucrat in the DOE/NNSA food-chain.

Kiero

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3722 on: January 16, 2022, 05:29:51 PM »
Whitmer, Cuomo, Newsom, Murphy, and Wolf are mass murderers because they forced covid-19 positive patients into nursing homes, with very predictable and horrific results.

And people like you are the useful idiots who are providing cover for the Democrats, by helping them conflate those very real and well documented crimes committed in the public eye with sheer unmitigated nonsense like all this crap about secret lethal injections.

Deploying a protocol which deliberately gives people several times the normal dosage is a crime.

There are tons of viruses that *all* people spread to each other on a daily basis.  Most of them happy to just replicate without causing illness to anything other than the tons of bacteria in and on us.

Yep and covid is no different. Harmless (if briefly unpleasant) to the overwhelming majority.
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Pat

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3723 on: January 16, 2022, 05:31:53 PM »
Whitmer, Cuomo, Newsom, Murphy, and Wolf are mass murderers because they forced covid-19 positive patients into nursing homes, with very predictable and horrific results.

And people like you are the useful idiots who are providing cover for the Democrats, by helping them conflate those very real and well documented crimes committed in the public eye with sheer unmitigated nonsense like all this crap about secret lethal injections.

Deploying a protocol which deliberately gives people several times the normal dosage is a crime.
[Citation Needed]

Kiero

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3724 on: January 16, 2022, 05:34:39 PM »
[Citation Needed]

I posted it several pages back.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

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Zirunel

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3725 on: January 16, 2022, 06:37:09 PM »
[Citation Needed]

I posted it several pages back.

The only candidate for a link I can find is the one referenced here:

You definitely owe me one. And it better be a damn good one.  Like, along the lines that you're an absolute idiot and that you didn't realize that site was full of anti-semitic bile, and you're going to remove the link from your posts.

As will anyone who quoted him.

Your site, your rules.

I linked it for no reason beyond the fact that it referenced the case put before the magistrates against our former Health Secretary over the use of that sedative drug. That article was the first one that came up when searching for "midazolam murders".

I've never seen the site before and link removed.

Obviously, if this was the link it is gone. And although I never saw it, probably for good reason.

It sounds as though you just blorped out the first link you found. possibly without even reading it. Do you have anything better?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 06:40:07 PM by Zirunel »

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3726 on: January 16, 2022, 06:37:42 PM »
[Citation Needed]

I posted it several pages back.
Your push-pins-and-string mapping of whackadoodle nonsense doesn't count.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3727 on: January 16, 2022, 10:01:31 PM »
This is what is happening in many places. Let's say they have 100 available beds, but only enough staff for 50 beds.  They can declare (and several have done so) themselves to be over capacity with 51 patients occupying beds. 

This is why you can't trust anything coming from hospital administrators without seeing it for yourself.

We have situations where they've fired unvaccinated nurses and doctors while simultaneously ordering vaccinated but infected ones to come back to work *while still contagious*.  Meanwhile all of those fired nurses and doctors are making 2x, 3x, or more salary by being traveling medical practitioners - either going elsewhere or actually being contracted by the hospital that fired them - as independent contractors, they don't have to be vaccinated because they're not employees...

When you say "we" here, 3catcircus, do you also work in health care and saw this yourself? If so, where do you work? If not, what is your source?

I don't doubt that dumb shit has happened. The question is what is the norm? I don't have first-hand knowledge, but people I know in health care seem to think it's roughly real. I'll buy that mainstream liberal-leaning media is biased, but even if I'm reading on Newsmax, I see stuff about hospitals being overwhelmed by the Omicron surge.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-hospital/2022/01/07/id/1051414/

CNN (lack of staff resulting in inability to use all their beds):

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

Yahoo (sick healthcare workers ordered back to work):

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-reeling-california-tells-covid-130036030.html

travelnursing.org (job opps for traveling nurses):

https://www.travelnursing.org/covid-updates-for-travel-nurses-january-5-2022/

CBS News (no vaccine required to be hired as a nurse).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nebraska-job-ad-nurses-no-vaccination-requirement/
My hospital just opened 3 new floors on a tower, so 120 new inpatient beds. We've been trying to hire staff for the past year and we still only have about 1/3 what we need for the new beds (many new hires we redirected to cover gaps in other units) and even with traveling nurses, we can only staff 2/3 of those beds right now.

Right. The question is if your hospital will report over capacity if they put more bodies in beds than they have staff for, or only if they start stacking them in hallway gurneys because every other bed in an actual room is full.

Who knows if it is hospital administrators being disengenuous or if the media is (as is typical) not reporting factual information.
Hospitals don't choose which statistics to report or how they do so, they report them in the format they are told to do so by CMS and other authorities. This might be in terms of licensed beds, operational beds, or staffed beds.

Hallway beds are not an inpatient thing, they exist in the EDs d/t the requirements of EMTALA that no patient seeking emergent care be turned away until it can be determined that they no longer have an emergent condition (or that they never did).

Your "who knows" line is the kind of bullshit that doesn't help at all because it implies that nobody knows. I'm telling you facts from within the system and you're still going with "who knows" kind of shit. I know, and so do many others workign in healthcare.

If you're not in hospital administration and you don't think they would spin the numbers to fit a narrative, you're a fool.

Here's numbers from HHS... doesn't look like they're in a crisis at all.

I have a question for you.

You're in the financial services industry, not the medical industry. You're telling a guy who works in the medical industry that you know how his hospital works better than he knows how his hospital works, based purely on your gut instinct and what matches your world view.

My question is: How the fuck?

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3728 on: January 16, 2022, 10:11:03 PM »
The mechanism for N-95 mask filtration is the electrostatic potential between the mask material and the particulate matter. It is not impaction, as is illustrated by your picture. Moreover, the effectiveness of an N-95 mask is highly dependent on it having an air-tight fit, which is why you have to have one properly-sized and properly fitted.

At the hospital my wife works at, there are people specifically trained to pick the proper size and ensure that it properly fits. For my wife, it takes about an hour to go through the process. Also, wearing a properly-fitted N-95 mask is uncomfortable. After an 8+ hour day my wife comes home with bruised cheekbones from the mask pressing on her face. They are also difficult to breath through and they stifle conversation.

Anything other than a mask with an engineered-material and an air-tight fit is doing you little to no good if your concern is long-term exposure (e.g., sitting at work in a cube farm for 8+ hr). They will help somewhat if you are up-close to someone and are talking, or cough, or sneeze. Although for the later two, a hand, a vampire cough, or a tissue are likely as effective as a cloth or surgical mask.

And *that's* the whole point - all of the cloth masks and surgical masks have done fuck-all in terms of trying to prevent transmission.  They're not fitted tight enough even if the weave were tight enough for electrostatics or quantum effects to drive their ability to capture particles.  COVID is transmitted primarily by aerosol, just like flu, rhinovirus, adenovirus, or other coronaviruses.  The "experts" knew this very early on yet still told people to alternatively not wear masks and to wear masks.  FOIA requests resulted in  release of an email from Fauci to some other government drone telling her that the typical drugstore masks aren't doing anything.

It's that flip-flopping when caught in a lie that has resulted in the erosion of trust.

If you really wanted to have an effective lockdown, you'd have announced that COVID is airborne and that the police would shoot on sight anyone found out on the streets with no good reason ( I actually have a letter from SECDEF from 2020 that I was to show the authorities in the event that I was pulled over by local law enforcement on my way to/from work...)  Even then you wouldn't have stopped it.  Viruses gonna virus:. spread as best they can, replicate as best they can, and if they kill their host too often, they tone it down so that they'll continue to spread and replicate...

There are tons of viruses that *all* people spread to each other on a daily basis.  Most of them happy to just replicate without causing illness to anything other than the tons of bacteria in and on us.

Cloth masks still reduce the radius of your breath outward. As someone who has played D&D before, you fully understand and appreciate the importance of the radial spread of a breath weapon. This is provable, and can be seen with your own eyes if you care to conduct an experiment.

DocJones

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3729 on: January 16, 2022, 11:21:50 PM »
Cloth masks still reduce the radius of your breath outward. As someone who has played D&D before, you fully understand and appreciate the importance of the radial spread of a breath weapon. This is provable, and can be seen with your own eyes if you care to conduct an experiment.
While this is true, the Omicron virus will out smart your attempt at social distancing and masking, because it has mastered Brownian motion and Fick's Law.



Eirikrautha

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3730 on: January 17, 2022, 12:19:11 AM »

Cloth masks still reduce the radius of your breath outward. As someone who has played D&D before, you fully understand and appreciate the importance of the radial spread of a breath weapon. This is provable, and can be seen with your own eyes if you care to conduct an experiment.

You just compared Covid to a breath weapon?  And you call other people out of touch with reality...

The preponderance of the evidence suggests that Covid spreads from person to person primarily as an aerosol, and not via droplet transfer.  There are indications that both the likelihood of infection and some severity is based on viral load due to prolonged exposure, and not singular spread due to being coughed on or sneezed on.  So the idea that a mask, especially a cloth mask, is doing anything is total wishful thinking.  You have far more to worry about from recycled air in buildings, which contains particles of virus far too small for your mask to do anything about.  But you'd know all that, if you actually cared about the actual "science" of the virus' spread...

dkabq

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3731 on: January 17, 2022, 06:48:36 AM »

Cloth masks still reduce the radius of your breath outward. As someone who has played D&D before, you fully understand and appreciate the importance of the radial spread of a breath weapon. This is provable, and can be seen with your own eyes if you care to conduct an experiment.

You just compared Covid to a breath weapon?  And you call other people out of touch with reality...

The preponderance of the evidence suggests that Covid spreads from person to person primarily as an aerosol, and not via droplet transfer.  There are indications that both the likelihood of infection and some severity is based on viral load due to prolonged exposure, and not singular spread due to being coughed on or sneezed on.  So the idea that a mask, especially a cloth mask, is doing anything is total wishful thinking.  You have far more to worry about from recycled air in buildings, which contains particles of virus far too small for your mask to do anything about.  But you'd know all that, if you actually cared about the actual "science" of the virus' spread...

I assumed that the use of the term "breath weapon" was humorous hyperbole.

But since he opened the door for it, I would go with:

=====

I have a question for you.

You're a lawyer*, not a scientist or an engineer. You're telling a guy who has worked as a risk and safety analyst for 30+ years, developing and executing complex models that involve the transport and fate of aerosols, that you know fluid mechanics and aerosol physics better than he knows fluid mechanics and aerosol physics, based purely on your gut instinct and what matches your world view.

My question is: How the fuck?

* or at least to my best recollection Mistwell is a lawyer, but I could be wrong

=====

That said, Mistwell is correct in that a mask does at least deflect your breath. So if you are up close to someone and talking to them, even a cloth mask may delay some exposure.
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-face-masks-and-barrier-face-coverings
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/face-masks-barrier-face-coverings-surgical-masks-and-respirators-covid-19#using

Specifically, from the first link:
"If worn properly, a surgical mask is meant to help block large-particle droplets, splashes, sprays, or splatter that may contain germs (viruses and bacteria), keeping it from reaching your mouth and nose. Surgical masks may also help reduce exposure of your saliva and respiratory secretions to others. While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, it does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Surgical masks also do not provide complete protection from germs and other contaminants because of the loose fit between the surface of the mask and your face."


However, as noted by Eirkrautha, it is virus concentration x exposure time (as a linear approximation) that drives the likelihood of infection. And that virus concentration is driven by the aerosol (small particles that remain airborne for long periods of time) portion of the viral release, not the droplet (large particles that plate out relatively rapidly) portion. The long-term concentration is also driven by the number of air changes of the space you occupy. For example, nobody is catching covid on airplanes, not because they are wearing masks, but because there are 12 to 15 air changes/hr and they cycle the air through HEPA filters.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/how-airplane-cabin-air-works
https://www.quora.com/How-many-times-per-hour-is-the-air-inside-a-airliner-changed

The same thing, to a lesser extent (and without the HEPA filters) applies to restaurants, office cube farms, your house, etc., dependent on the number of air changes/hr.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/ashrae-air-changes-per-hour-office-residential/





3catcircus

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3732 on: January 17, 2022, 08:28:11 AM »
This is what is happening in many places. Let's say they have 100 available beds, but only enough staff for 50 beds.  They can declare (and several have done so) themselves to be over capacity with 51 patients occupying beds. 

This is why you can't trust anything coming from hospital administrators without seeing it for yourself.

We have situations where they've fired unvaccinated nurses and doctors while simultaneously ordering vaccinated but infected ones to come back to work *while still contagious*.  Meanwhile all of those fired nurses and doctors are making 2x, 3x, or more salary by being traveling medical practitioners - either going elsewhere or actually being contracted by the hospital that fired them - as independent contractors, they don't have to be vaccinated because they're not employees...

When you say "we" here, 3catcircus, do you also work in health care and saw this yourself? If so, where do you work? If not, what is your source?

I don't doubt that dumb shit has happened. The question is what is the norm? I don't have first-hand knowledge, but people I know in health care seem to think it's roughly real. I'll buy that mainstream liberal-leaning media is biased, but even if I'm reading on Newsmax, I see stuff about hospitals being overwhelmed by the Omicron surge.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-hospital/2022/01/07/id/1051414/

CNN (lack of staff resulting in inability to use all their beds):

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

Yahoo (sick healthcare workers ordered back to work):

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-reeling-california-tells-covid-130036030.html

travelnursing.org (job opps for traveling nurses):

https://www.travelnursing.org/covid-updates-for-travel-nurses-january-5-2022/

CBS News (no vaccine required to be hired as a nurse).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nebraska-job-ad-nurses-no-vaccination-requirement/
My hospital just opened 3 new floors on a tower, so 120 new inpatient beds. We've been trying to hire staff for the past year and we still only have about 1/3 what we need for the new beds (many new hires we redirected to cover gaps in other units) and even with traveling nurses, we can only staff 2/3 of those beds right now.

Right. The question is if your hospital will report over capacity if they put more bodies in beds than they have staff for, or only if they start stacking them in hallway gurneys because every other bed in an actual room is full.

Who knows if it is hospital administrators being disengenuous or if the media is (as is typical) not reporting factual information.
Hospitals don't choose which statistics to report or how they do so, they report them in the format they are told to do so by CMS and other authorities. This might be in terms of licensed beds, operational beds, or staffed beds.

Hallway beds are not an inpatient thing, they exist in the EDs d/t the requirements of EMTALA that no patient seeking emergent care be turned away until it can be determined that they no longer have an emergent condition (or that they never did).

Your "who knows" line is the kind of bullshit that doesn't help at all because it implies that nobody knows. I'm telling you facts from within the system and you're still going with "who knows" kind of shit. I know, and so do many others workign in healthcare.

If you're not in hospital administration and you don't think they would spin the numbers to fit a narrative, you're a fool.

Here's numbers from HHS... doesn't look like they're in a crisis at all.

I have a question for you.

You're in the financial services industry, not the medical industry. You're telling a guy who works in the medical industry that you know how his hospital works better than he knows how his hospital works, based purely on your gut instinct and what matches your world view.

My question is: How the fuck?

First of all, I'm an engineer. My assessment is data-based.  So, yes, based on the data, I am telling him how hospitals, by and large, are not in crisis. 

Secondly, while not as well-versed as dkabq in aerosol studies specifically, my work focuses on system-of-systems activities, so I've been involved in several air wake studies - even if you reduce risk to someone directly in front of you, no one in the real world sits there face-to-face in close proximity for hours at a time. The fact remains that you're sharing your exhalate to everyone behind and to the side of you. And that non-laminar flow ensures that anything hanging out in your exhalate is going to float along for quite some time. 

HappyDaze

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3733 on: January 17, 2022, 08:50:15 AM »
This is what is happening in many places. Let's say they have 100 available beds, but only enough staff for 50 beds.  They can declare (and several have done so) themselves to be over capacity with 51 patients occupying beds. 

This is why you can't trust anything coming from hospital administrators without seeing it for yourself.

We have situations where they've fired unvaccinated nurses and doctors while simultaneously ordering vaccinated but infected ones to come back to work *while still contagious*.  Meanwhile all of those fired nurses and doctors are making 2x, 3x, or more salary by being traveling medical practitioners - either going elsewhere or actually being contracted by the hospital that fired them - as independent contractors, they don't have to be vaccinated because they're not employees...

When you say "we" here, 3catcircus, do you also work in health care and saw this yourself? If so, where do you work? If not, what is your source?

I don't doubt that dumb shit has happened. The question is what is the norm? I don't have first-hand knowledge, but people I know in health care seem to think it's roughly real. I'll buy that mainstream liberal-leaning media is biased, but even if I'm reading on Newsmax, I see stuff about hospitals being overwhelmed by the Omicron surge.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-hospital/2022/01/07/id/1051414/

CNN (lack of staff resulting in inability to use all their beds):

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

Yahoo (sick healthcare workers ordered back to work):

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-reeling-california-tells-covid-130036030.html

travelnursing.org (job opps for traveling nurses):

https://www.travelnursing.org/covid-updates-for-travel-nurses-january-5-2022/

CBS News (no vaccine required to be hired as a nurse).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nebraska-job-ad-nurses-no-vaccination-requirement/
My hospital just opened 3 new floors on a tower, so 120 new inpatient beds. We've been trying to hire staff for the past year and we still only have about 1/3 what we need for the new beds (many new hires we redirected to cover gaps in other units) and even with traveling nurses, we can only staff 2/3 of those beds right now.

Right. The question is if your hospital will report over capacity if they put more bodies in beds than they have staff for, or only if they start stacking them in hallway gurneys because every other bed in an actual room is full.

Who knows if it is hospital administrators being disengenuous or if the media is (as is typical) not reporting factual information.
Hospitals don't choose which statistics to report or how they do so, they report them in the format they are told to do so by CMS and other authorities. This might be in terms of licensed beds, operational beds, or staffed beds.

Hallway beds are not an inpatient thing, they exist in the EDs d/t the requirements of EMTALA that no patient seeking emergent care be turned away until it can be determined that they no longer have an emergent condition (or that they never did).

Your "who knows" line is the kind of bullshit that doesn't help at all because it implies that nobody knows. I'm telling you facts from within the system and you're still going with "who knows" kind of shit. I know, and so do many others workign in healthcare.

If you're not in hospital administration and you don't think they would spin the numbers to fit a narrative, you're a fool.

Here's numbers from HHS... doesn't look like they're in a crisis at all.

I have a question for you.

You're in the financial services industry, not the medical industry. You're telling a guy who works in the medical industry that you know how his hospital works better than he knows how his hospital works, based purely on your gut instinct and what matches your world view.

My question is: How the fuck?

First of all, I'm an engineer. My assessment is data-based.  So, yes, based on the data, I am telling him how hospitals, by and large, are not in crisis. 

Secondly, while not as well-versed as dkabq in aerosol studies specifically, my work focuses on system-of-systems activities, so I've been involved in several air wake studies - even if you reduce risk to someone directly in front of you, no one in the real world sits there face-to-face in close proximity for hours at a time. The fact remains that you're sharing your exhalate to everyone behind and to the side of you. And that non-laminar flow ensures that anything hanging out in your exhalate is going to float along for quite some time.
You're a blind man describing an elephant.

Does your data show you the changes in ED accessibility? Does your data show you the multiple aspects of staffing difficulties (including retention and retraining)? Does your data show you the effects of disrupted supply chain on medical supplies and pharmaceuticals? Does your data show the impact of the pandemic on post-acute care options (which complicates discharges)? Does your data show you the impact any/all of these on patient experience/satisfaction scores (which directly impacts hospital reimbursement)?

It might surprise you to know that we in the healthcare industry know how to work with data too, and we weigh all of the above when we say hospitals are in a crisis.

Eirikrautha

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #3734 on: January 17, 2022, 10:49:46 AM »
Does your data show you the multiple aspects of staffing difficulties (including retention and retraining)?...

It might surprise you to know that we in the healthcare industry know how to work with data too, and we weigh all of the above when we say hospitals are in a crisis.
A crisis of their own making.  How many doctors and nurses worked through the entire pandemic before there was a vaccine (as "heroes"), yet got kicked to the curb once the mandates arrived?  Maybe not in Florida, but a lot of the Northeast states are bemoaning the lack of staff (which they report as fewer beds available), right after firing a bunch because they wouldn't get the jab.  Stupid...