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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 341682 times)

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1740 on: March 31, 2021, 05:19:02 PM »
I'm right of center, sparky. You really pretending Pat's free of ideological influence?
So what's my ideology?

I'm not right of center, BTW.

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1741 on: March 31, 2021, 05:37:27 PM »
But this isn't new restrictions. It's a *relaxing* of previously-implemented restrictions for people who are vaccinated. Complaining about both seems like damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't.

1) Keep restrictions in place for everyone regardless of vaccination.

"This is senseless totalitarianism just to exert control. There's no reason to restrict people who are vaccinated."

2) Give passes so vaccinated people can ignore restrictions.

"Now vaccination is the Mark of the Beast. The Totalitarianism Clock is ticking down to midnight."
What you're describing isn't a relaxing of restrictions, it's the equivalent of a Mafia protection racket.
"You've taken away everything from me!"
"Yes, and if you want anything back, you're going to have to do exactly what I say..."

And that's not even the truth of what's happening, because a lot of the restrictions have already been lifted. The vaccine passes are being accompanied by the threat of new restrictions, to get people to go along.
"It puts the lotion on or it gets the hose again."

Not to mention, who's going to trust them? They've lied and lied and lied.
"Two weeks to slow the spread."
"Once we've beaten back the virus, everything will go back to normal."
"We should be back to normal by 2021."
"Once you have a shot, you'll be able to go about your life like normal."

We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

Shasarak

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1742 on: March 31, 2021, 05:52:05 PM »
2) Give passes so vaccinated people can ignore restrictions.

"Now vaccination is the Mark of the Beast. The Totalitarianism Clock is ticking down to midnight."

How is your Vaccination Passport going to work for the 99.8% of people that caught the Wuhan CCP Virus and survived?

Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1743 on: March 31, 2021, 05:53:15 PM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1744 on: March 31, 2021, 05:57:23 PM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.
And even if somehow covid-19 vanishes entirely, what about the flu? That still kills a lot of people each year. We've set a precedent.

KingCheops

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1745 on: March 31, 2021, 06:47:22 PM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

Almost like its the common fucking flu.

jhkim

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1746 on: March 31, 2021, 08:32:34 PM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

Trump and plenty of top Republicans predicted that all of the covid nonsense would disappear as soon as Biden was elected. Since that prediction failed to come true, people will predict the opposite. If this prediction fails to come true, then it still won't matter. It seems like the predictions about a second civil war have gone quieter now.

I feel like this is a product of both partisan sides predicting ever-closer doomsdays from whatever the other side is doing.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1747 on: March 31, 2021, 09:54:13 PM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

Trump and plenty of top Republicans predicted that all of the covid nonsense would disappear as soon as Biden was elected. Since that prediction failed to come true, people will predict the opposite. If this prediction fails to come true, then it still won't matter. It seems like the predictions about a second civil war have gone quieter now.

I feel like this is a product of both partisan sides predicting ever-closer doomsdays from whatever the other side is doing.

They were naive. The government loves to take advantages of crisis to push restrictions on freedoms.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

horsesoldier

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1748 on: April 01, 2021, 01:53:32 PM »
https://uproxx.com/viral/marjorie-taylor-greene-vaccine-passports-mark-of-the-beast/

The most sane and stable person in Congress (reminder: Biden and Harris are no longer members of Congress) has moved on from warning us all about Jewish space lasers, to calling vaccine passports Biden's Mark of the Beast. No, I'm not sure how that works.

Totalitarians must be eating this up, because damn it's a lot easier to sell someone a shit sandwich if your competition is selling a sandwich full of shards of glass (that were used to make space lasers).

MTG is purely the prerogative of her constituents. Congress used to be full "local yokels" who represent their district. You still see it with minority politicians. With white politicians? Very rare nowadays. No more Charlie Wilson's, Ron Paul's or James Traficant's.
Good for her to faithfully represent her constituents. Too bad though that we have a population behind the idiotic beliefs she champions.

Oh we're talking about bad populations now are we? Plenty of room to explore there.

horsesoldier

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1749 on: April 01, 2021, 01:55:25 PM »
MTG is purely the prerogative of her constituents.
Absolutely. I'm very strongly in favor of more minority views being represented in Congress. The problem with representing half a million people geographically contiguous people is you almost always end up with someone very bland. The exceptions are in districts with a one-party lock, where nutjobs like AOC or MTG can get elected. There's a good argument for drastically increasing the number of reps, or for detaching one of the houses of Congress from the land and allowing them to be voted in by more widely dispersed but cohesive groups. That would allow minority parties to have representation equal to their popular support, instead of effectively zero. For instance, the Libertarian Party won 3.28% of the votes in the 2016 presidential election -- yet in the House, they won 0 seats, when that percentage should translate into about 14. The Green Party got 1.1% in the same election, which should translate into about 5 seats. The system is strongly biased against minority views.

The problem is with the political discourse that's going to use her opposition as a weapon to promote covid vaccines.

Not a fan of proportional representation systems. I would be fine if we returned to the original constitution when it comes to reps and senators though.

Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1750 on: April 01, 2021, 02:58:02 PM »
MTG is purely the prerogative of her constituents.
Absolutely. I'm very strongly in favor of more minority views being represented in Congress. The problem with representing half a million people geographically contiguous people is you almost always end up with someone very bland. The exceptions are in districts with a one-party lock, where nutjobs like AOC or MTG can get elected. There's a good argument for drastically increasing the number of reps, or for detaching one of the houses of Congress from the land and allowing them to be voted in by more widely dispersed but cohesive groups. That would allow minority parties to have representation equal to their popular support, instead of effectively zero. For instance, the Libertarian Party won 3.28% of the votes in the 2016 presidential election -- yet in the House, they won 0 seats, when that percentage should translate into about 14. The Green Party got 1.1% in the same election, which should translate into about 5 seats. The system is strongly biased against minority views.

The problem is with the political discourse that's going to use her opposition as a weapon to promote covid vaccines.

Not a fan of proportional representation systems. I would be fine if we returned to the original constitution when it comes to reps and senators though.
The Constitution doesn't determine the number of reps, that's set by Congress. They gradually increased the number until 1910, and then froze it at 435 (with temporary exemptions when new states were admitted). The Founders thought 30,000 to 40,000 people per rep was the maximum reasonable amount, and to get back to that we'd need about 10,000 members of Congress.


horsesoldier

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1751 on: April 02, 2021, 09:44:25 AM »
I would be fine with 10k representatives. Make it much harder to bribe, it would create more regional parties/independents, and my rep might actually answer the phone if I call him.

It would be bonkers but our system of government doesn't work to well with how big it is anyway.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1752 on: April 04, 2021, 01:05:30 AM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

Let's play a game. I'll bet you're wrong, and that by the end of 2022 or before, masks will no longer be a requirement for the overwhelming majority of the U.S.. Do you bet against me?

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1753 on: April 04, 2021, 02:41:00 AM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

Let's play a game. I'll bet you're wrong, and that by the end of 2022 or before, masks will no longer be a requirement for the overwhelming majority of the U.S.. Do you bet against me?

I'm game. We need to define "overwhelming majority" clearly first. 51%? 75%? 99%? Of what? States? Cities? Counties? Overall population?

And, to be perfectly clear, I am not saying it's impossible that mask wearing will no longer be required. If you claim that kind of absolutism about my opinion when we resolve the wager, you lose regardless of the state of mask wearing.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 02:43:38 AM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1754 on: April 04, 2021, 06:56:31 PM »
We've passed all those goalposts, and it keeps getting pushed further back. Now we're being told that people who have gotten the shot still have to wear masks and follow all the rules, and things won't go back to normal until 2023, or maybe never (the new normal).

My money's on "never". There will be new variants (we've already had a few) that will require updated vaccines, and the existence of new strains will require us to continue to mask and live in various levels of restrictions for the forseeable future.

Let's play a game. I'll bet you're wrong, and that by the end of 2022 or before, masks will no longer be a requirement for the overwhelming majority of the U.S.. Do you bet against me?

I'm game. We need to define "overwhelming majority" clearly first. 51%? 75%? 99%? Of what? States? Cities? Counties? Overall population?

And, to be perfectly clear, I am not saying it's impossible that mask wearing will no longer be required. If you claim that kind of absolutism about my opinion when we resolve the wager, you lose regardless of the state of mask wearing.

I'll let you define those terms. I figured around 75% of the population wouldn't be required to wear masks by around that date. But If you want to go more specific to a locality I am fine with that too.