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Author Topic: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.  (Read 341864 times)

Ratman_tf

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1560 on: March 03, 2021, 12:50:57 PM »
In Victoria, category 2 (do within 90 days) and 3 (180 days) procedures were shut down for most of 220 days - from March till December. Our peak ICU hospitals for covid was... 48. We originally had 450 ICU beds, and built it up to 4,500.

A guy I know had some bowel problems in March last year, was due for a scope - he almost got in June, but it didn't work out, he had to wait till December. Well, now he's got a colostomy bag and is undergoing chemo for liver cancer. He's in a lot of pain. He had a secure job but he's on unpaid leave now. His chances are not great, but should he, god willing survive - well he'll be disabled and will have lifelong problems. He's got a wife and a 12 and 10 year old. That could have been a day procedure in March.
  I personally know of a similar scenario, that ended badly as well.  I put off surgery to fix a pec tear that likely when I do get surgery later this year is going to not have the results I would like, but my deal was not even close to the situation you detail, and the one I know of.  I think covid has done massive damage, but not in the actual death toll from the virus.

Yep. The UN has talked about the economic impact on global poverty.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/12/1079152

The narrative pushed by governments and mainstream media is that the lockdowns and restrictions are a minor inconvenience. For a lot of white (not my fault that's the demographic) middle class people who can work from home, this might be the case, but I think as the fallout of the past year, financially and socially, starts to manifest over the next few years, people are going to have a lot of regrets.
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Ratman_tf

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The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1562 on: March 03, 2021, 01:58:08 PM »
It seems Mississippi has decided to discard mandates as well.

Note that no one is forcing people to unmask, or demanding businesses fill to the gills. There just won't be any governmental demands that people wear masks or businesses limit customers.

Needless to say, the freakouts are hilarious and disturbing. It seems Loki was right, at least in part: some people are just made to be ruled.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1563 on: March 03, 2021, 03:25:49 PM »
The best thing about COVID-19 is that it cured the seasonal flu. Went from something like ~100k annual deaths to almost zero. That's good news!

It's true. This pandemic probably did more damage to the influenza virus than anything since before 1918. It's theoretically possible it's permanent damage, as failure to spread in a year on this level could be enough to find it replaced in the ecosystem by other things.
Viruses. Or virii, if you want to annoy pedants. Influenza is a many-headed hydra. That's why the flu shot each year is different; they have to choose which strains they think will be big and target them. It's very unlikely they'll all be beat back. Not that a slow down will do anything anyway. They'll bounce back. Some viruses do vanish, but unless we have near-total immunity like with small pox, that won't happen.

That is true when there isn't viral competition. But, weirdly, it does appear like viruses compete with each other, and they can die off if a different virus takes it's place in the ecosystem. Which seems to be happening with this coronavirus.

We will know this year. Israel has already vaccinated over half it's population in two months, and we should see the flu bounce back there if it will be bouncing back. I don't think it will though.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 03:27:56 PM by Mistwell »

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1564 on: March 03, 2021, 03:35:50 PM »
The problem really is confusing deaths caused by the Wuhan Flu Virus with the economic damage caused by governments flailing for solutions.

Our governor FINALLY lifted these idiotic mask mandates (I never wore one anyway) and the usual suspects are coming out in full force claiming he only cares about money and not people. Yes, literally thousands and thousands of businesses destroyed and millions of people out of work directly resulting in deaths from stuff like suicide, but if we only save one 93 year old with diabetes IT'S TOTALLY WORTH IT!

You could get hit by a fucking bus crossing the street. If that bothers you, don't cross the street. Instead these morons want us to outlaw buses...

Which business was destroyed by mask mandates again?

Greetings!

Come on, now, Mistwell. Don't play being obtuse. The last year we have seen *dozens* of businesses, if not *thousands* go out of business and shut their doors.

None of which shut down due to masks.

I am not being obtuse. I am responding to an outrageously wrong claim - that mask mandates is what drove businesses under. If I cannot call out blatantly false claims like that, you tell me which false claims are fair game then?



Quote
These bankrupt businesses--shops, stores of many kinds, and restaurants--employed hundreds of thousands and likely millions of employees. They all have closed either directly through mask mandates, "social distancing" requirements, and government required lockdowns--and or in combination from such measures and a huge loss of in-person, buying customers. Just the other day, FRY's Electronics--from California--and very prominent in the Bay Area as well as Southern California--announced it is closing all of its stores permanently because of the pandemic. I'm not going to hunt down more specific restaurants and businesses--you know good and well the pandemic's impact on the economy has been absolutely enormous, with many, many businesses ruined forever.

Lockdowns are not mask mandates. Indeed, you don't wear a mask in a lockdown because you're staying at home. Mask mandates are for when you're NOT LOCKED DOWN. So, mask mandates are clearly not lockdowns.

Also, Fry's was going bankrupt regardless of the pandemic. Have you been to one in the past 3 years? Fry's Electronics was driven to bankruptcy by President Trumps insanely stupid customs charges for Chinese imports, which Fry's responded to by ending all their vendor relationships and going to a pay-later approach (consignment), which almost none of their vendors were willing to do resulting in bare shelves in all Fry's Electronics locations.

But, bottom line, mask mandates have not driven businesses under and are not lock downs. I am waiting for you to tell me which business suffered because of mask mandates? I've been to a movie theater under a mask mandate. I've been do a restaurant (indoors) under a mask mandate. Mask mandates don't harm any business I am aware of. Fuck I think even strip clubs were even able to operate with a mask mandate.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 03:39:07 PM by Mistwell »

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1565 on: March 03, 2021, 03:37:10 PM »
Which business was destroyed by mask mandates again?

Imagine posting this and then expecting to be taken seriously. Won’t even bother to address Comrade Kim except to say he seems like a really lousy scientist.

Hey douchenozzle. Which businesses have been destroyed by a mask mandate? Answer the question. Name ONE business destroyed by a mask mandate. And don't fuck around pretending mask mandates are lock downs when they're nothing similar to each other.

Snowman0147

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1566 on: March 03, 2021, 03:44:30 PM »
Which business was destroyed by mask mandates again?

Imagine posting this and then expecting to be taken seriously. Won’t even bother to address Comrade Kim except to say he seems like a really lousy scientist.

He is a neocon traitor that sold out to China like the Judas bitch he is.  What do you expect?

Brad

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1567 on: March 03, 2021, 04:15:47 PM »
Hey douchenozzle. Which businesses have been destroyed by a mask mandate? Answer the question. Name ONE business destroyed by a mask mandate. And don't fuck around pretending mask mandates are lock downs when they're nothing similar to each other.

Are you really this retarded?

He is a neocon traitor that sold out to China like the Judas bitch he is.  What do you expect?

Yeah, guess so.
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Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1568 on: March 03, 2021, 04:24:27 PM »
Which business was destroyed by mask mandates again?

Imagine posting this and then expecting to be taken seriously. Won’t even bother to address Comrade Kim except to say he seems like a really lousy scientist.

He is a neocon traitor that sold out to China like the Judas bitch he is.  What do you expect?

Being a neocon was never selling out. It was always my primary choice. I genuinely believe in globalism. Your little union-backed America-first nativist bullshit notwithstanding, there is an actual legitimate ethical dissenting view to your worldview.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1569 on: March 03, 2021, 04:26:54 PM »
Brad insults
Brad, third and last chance. Name one business which has gone under because of mask mandates.

We both know you cannot. Because it was a bullshit claim which you and others were trying to pretend meant "lockdowns" even though under no even vague definition of that phrase could it mean lockdowns. You DON'T wear masks when locked down because you're at home. Mask mandates are for when you're NOT LOCKED DOWN and just out in society at large. It's OK that you're a piece of shit liar who wanted to pretend black meant white, but now that you're called on it just calling me stupid while being unable to answer the simple question of "Who?" to your claim that businesses have gone under because of mask mandates doesn't make you look to bright there, porn boy.

Garry G

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1570 on: March 03, 2021, 05:05:28 PM »
I've seen him posting since before I joined this forum, Mistwell. He's always been like this.

To think I once believed Aussies were sensible people made of pretty stern stuff. But the way you've lapped up this coronabollocks (and what the actual fuck is going on in the People's Republic of Victoria?) says I was obviously wrong.

But sure, the coalition of bedwetting cowards, hypochondriacs and neurotics are surely the correct ones.

I don't think you're stupid, I think you're nuts. You were always a bit mental but at some point you went off the deep end into paranoid conspiracy world. You believe that there's an international conspiracy to pretend there's a pandemic that fucks up economies because reasons. You've become the weird anti-vaxxer parent that we all avoid at the school gate.


Kiero

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1571 on: March 03, 2021, 05:39:12 PM »
I don't think you're stupid, I think you're nuts. You were always a bit mental but at some point you went off the deep end into paranoid conspiracy world. You believe that there's an international conspiracy to pretend there's a pandemic that fucks up economies because reasons. You've become the weird anti-vaxxer parent that we all avoid at the school gate.

Says the guy who, almost a year into being fed an ever-changing reel of bullshit and lies, still thinks this is all true.

Bodies piling up in the streets! Except last year was indistinguishable from a bad flu year like 2017/18's winter. Nasty spring, then everything was pretty normal deaths-wise. Of course we've stored up plenty of unnecessary ones with the health service shielding itself from doing it's fucking job.
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Garry G

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1572 on: March 03, 2021, 05:55:12 PM »
I don't think you're stupid, I think you're nuts. You were always a bit mental but at some point you went off the deep end into paranoid conspiracy world. You believe that there's an international conspiracy to pretend there's a pandemic that fucks up economies because reasons. You've become the weird anti-vaxxer parent that we all avoid at the school gate.

Says the guy who, almost a year into being fed an ever-changing reel of bullshit and lies, still thinks this is all true.

Bodies piling up in the streets! Except last year was indistinguishable from a bad flu year like 2017/18's winter. Nasty spring, then everything was pretty normal deaths-wise. Of course we've stored up plenty of unnecessary ones with the health service shielding itself from doing it's fucking job.

It's hard to even begin to address this nonsense because it's nonsense. We could try facts like the excess mortality rates but you don't deal with facts cos you're a mental.

I always like your NHS workers are lazy spiel cos that's possibly the most pathetic conspiracy theory of all time. I figure you're some sort of well paid IT guy who goldbricks the system to milk as much as he can out of it whilst doing as little as possible. You can't imagine that people may be passionate about they're jobs and not just leeches who don't want to work.


Pat
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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1573 on: March 03, 2021, 06:10:42 PM »
The best thing about COVID-19 is that it cured the seasonal flu. Went from something like ~100k annual deaths to almost zero. That's good news!

It's true. This pandemic probably did more damage to the influenza virus than anything since before 1918. It's theoretically possible it's permanent damage, as failure to spread in a year on this level could be enough to find it replaced in the ecosystem by other things.
Viruses. Or virii, if you want to annoy pedants. Influenza is a many-headed hydra. That's why the flu shot each year is different; they have to choose which strains they think will be big and target them. It's very unlikely they'll all be beat back. Not that a slow down will do anything anyway. They'll bounce back. Some viruses do vanish, but unless we have near-total immunity like with small pox, that won't happen.

That is true when there isn't viral competition. But, weirdly, it does appear like viruses compete with each other, and they can die off if a different virus takes it's place in the ecosystem. Which seems to be happening with this coronavirus.

We will know this year. Israel has already vaccinated over half it's population in two months, and we should see the flu bounce back there if it will be bouncing back. I don't think it will though.
Yes, but there doesn't seem to be a reason to expect that to happen with covid-19. The reason the flu and the common cold persist is because they're not just one virus, they're many, and that foils both vaccines and natural immunity because the entire populace isn't going to be protected against them all. By contrast, covid-19 is just one virus. There are a handful of major strains that show some resistance to the vaccines, but so it's pretty minor. Unless covid-19 turns into a viral complex, comparing it to the flu is a bad idea.

More likely, it will follow the pattern of historical diseases. Spreads rapidly when new, usually with 2 humps, most of the population becomes immune, and then it dies down and survives in small pockets. It might resurge, but that would require a major mutation (which will become less likely, as fewer people are infected), or after immunity lapses in a large chunk of the population, usually because a new generation is born. Widedpread vaccination, of course, would foil this.

I expect the flu will bounce back in the winter of 2021/2022.

Mistwell

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Re: Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.
« Reply #1574 on: March 03, 2021, 06:26:14 PM »
I've seen him posting since before I joined this forum, Mistwell. He's always been like this.

To think I once believed Aussies were sensible people made of pretty stern stuff. But the way you've lapped up this coronabollocks (and what the actual fuck is going on in the People's Republic of Victoria?) says I was obviously wrong.

But sure, the coalition of bedwetting cowards, hypochondriacs and neurotics are surely the correct ones.

I don't think you're stupid, I think you're nuts. You were always a bit mental but at some point you went off the deep end into paranoid conspiracy world. You believe that there's an international conspiracy to pretend there's a pandemic that fucks up economies because reasons. You've become the weird anti-vaxxer parent that we all avoid at the school gate.

To be fair, he's still a fellow gamer. Which means we all have more in common with him than the rest of the differences. I'm not going to "avoid" anyone here based on that alone. He is a nutter. But, you can be a fun and interesting gamer person while still being a nutter. Heck, I am betting a game of Illuminati would be a blast with him :)