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Author Topic: Cancelling critical mass  (Read 848 times)

Neoplatonist1

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Cancelling critical mass
« on: November 12, 2021, 05:34:28 PM »
Could so many people canceled that the canceled people outnumber the uncanceled people by a large (and politically useful) margin? If everyone gets canceled the situation effectively gets set back to square one, doesn't it?

DM_Curt

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2021, 01:06:03 PM »
Heh. At that point, the Cancelers can only talk to each other, while everyone else goes about their lives.

3catcircus

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021, 01:39:33 PM »
We need to go back to the days of dueling.  Accuse someone of something in the public square and be prepared to defend your accusation with your life.

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2021, 02:28:50 PM »
We need to go back to the days of dueling.  Accuse someone of something in the public square and be prepared to defend your accusation with your life.

Emotionally I'm down with you. Practically, duelling's always meant that those too physically tough to personally challenge, or those with enough money to buy sufficiently tough champions, tend to get to say what they like. Much as I love Conan, I've come to realize that on this point Howard was wrong: The entire point of civilization is to make it possible to utter rude truths without getting our skulls split for it.

But you don't need to create a majority of the Cancelled; you only need to create a majority of those who plausibly consider themselves at sufficiently high risk of Cancellation. The trick is to keep the preference cascade of those who have Cancellable opinions from kicking off, once they grasp the real situation.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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3catcircus

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2021, 02:32:48 PM »
We need to go back to the days of dueling.  Accuse someone of something in the public square and be prepared to defend your accusation with your life.

Emotionally I'm down with you. Practically, duelling's always meant that those too physically tough to personally challenge, or those with enough money to buy sufficiently tough champions, tend to get to say what they like. Much as I love Conan, I've come to realize that on this point Howard was wrong: The entire point of civilization is to make it possible to utter rude truths without getting our skulls split for it.

But you don't need to create a majority of the Cancelled; you only need to create a majority of those who plausibly consider themselves at sufficiently high risk of Cancellation. The trick is to keep the preference cascade of those who have Cancellable opinions from kicking off, once they grasp the real situation.

You don't need to be physically imposing to win the duel.  Just demand cannons at 10 paces... Or just practice at the range like you normally should - no soyboy cancel-lib is going to be able to handle your garden variety AR-15...

Neoplatonist1

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2021, 02:40:57 PM »
We need to go back to the days of dueling.  Accuse someone of something in the public square and be prepared to defend your accusation with your life.

Emotionally I'm down with you. Practically, duelling's always meant that those too physically tough to personally challenge, or those with enough money to buy sufficiently tough champions, tend to get to say what they like. Much as I love Conan, I've come to realize that on this point Howard was wrong: The entire point of civilization is to make it possible to utter rude truths without getting our skulls split for it.

But you don't need to create a majority of the Cancelled; you only need to create a majority of those who plausibly consider themselves at sufficiently high risk of Cancellation. The trick is to keep the preference cascade of those who have Cancellable opinions from kicking off, once they grasp the real situation.

What do you mean by your last sentence?

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2021, 02:54:01 PM »
You don't need to be physically imposing to win the duel.  Just demand cannons at 10 paces... Or just practice at the range like you normally should - no soyboy cancel-lib is going to be able to handle your garden variety AR-15...

Then it just goes to who's got the better reflexes or hand-eye coordination, or the money or time to spend on training, weapons and ammo. Or, again, the money to hire somebody with these things. (And to quote Larry Correia on firefights, "You can do everything right in a gunfight and still die.")

I understand the desire to put enough of a high price on public accusations to discourage easy slander. I like the idea of being legally free to punch anybody who'd call me a racist too. But the problem is that any method of discouraging easy slander also discourages legitimate criticism or dissent; if I can punch someone for their unfair accusations of me, it only teaches them to punch me back harder for my legitimate criticisms of them.
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Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2021, 03:01:49 PM »
The trick is to keep the preference cascade of those who have Cancellable opinions from kicking off, once they grasp the real situation.

What do you mean by your last sentence?

Basically that Cancellation works by convincing people around the target that the target's opinions represent an unacceptable minority, and deserve to be ostracized. A "preference cascade" is what happens when a large proportion of the populace holds an opinion in common, but as individuals they believe themselves to be alone or rare in that opinion because nobody has dared to express it aloud; when they realize just how many others share their opinion, they suddenly lose that fear of expressing it and it becomes widely shared and transmitted, like a cascade of dominos falling over. Once that happens, Cancellation for that opinion is no longer possible.

Hence, those who wish to retain the power to threaten Cancellation have a large stake in preventing such cascades from occurring.
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3catcircus

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM »
You don't need to be physically imposing to win the duel.  Just demand cannons at 10 paces... Or just practice at the range like you normally should - no soyboy cancel-lib is going to be able to handle your garden variety AR-15...

Then it just goes to who's got the better reflexes or hand-eye coordination, or the money or time to spend on training, weapons and ammo. Or, again, the money to hire somebody with these things. (And to quote Larry Correia on firefights, "You can do everything right in a gunfight and still die.")

I understand the desire to put enough of a high price on public accusations to discourage easy slander. I like the idea of being legally free to punch anybody who'd call me a racist too. But the problem is that any method of discouraging easy slander also discourages legitimate criticism or dissent; if I can punch someone for their unfair accusations of me, it only teaches them to punch me back harder for my legitimate criticisms of them.

Here's the problem.  You used to be able to sue for slanderous attacks and a reasonable group of your peers would find them offending post to be civilly liable.  Nowadays, you never get to that point because a panicky HR drone has to show that the company acted quickly to address whatever imagined slight was made by you against some mentally ill social media vulture, sided and abetted by a MSM that doesn't care about reporting the truth unless it fits their biased narrative.

We are on the cusp of civil war and we don't realize it.  Unfortunately, it likely needs to happen before the mentally ill leftists realize how wrong they are about everything. 

Zelen

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2021, 04:10:47 PM »
The entire point of the regime media these days is to prevent the 95+% of normal people from noticing and acknowledging the extremist actions that are being pushed by 0.1%, and supported by a 2% cadre of degenerates, and mentally ill pawns.

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2021, 04:46:24 PM »
You used to be able to sue for slanderous attacks and a reasonable group of your peers would find them offending post to be civilly liable.  Nowadays, you never get to that point because a panicky HR drone has to show that the company acted quickly to address whatever imagined slight was made by you against some mentally ill social media vulture, aided and abetted by a MSM that doesn't care about reporting the truth unless it fits their biased narrative.

Agreed, sadly. The Internet protections granted by Section 230 of the Communications Code have only contributed to this, because they were meant to protect social-media platforms from being legally liable for actionable content posted by users, but have wound up giving those platforms all the content-control power of publishers with none of the responsibilities or obligations. Which is how one company's board of directors can squelch a likely election-swinging story at their own discretion without consequence.

Quote
We are on the cusp of civil war and we don't realize it.  Unfortunately, it likely needs to happen before the mentally ill leftists realize how wrong they are about everything.

I think full-blown civil war is unlikely for a variety of reasons, mostly logistical and economic -- the primary division of conflict in the States is primarily between Urban Blue and Rural Red, both of which have strong economic dependence on the other (the Rural Red faction controls most food supply, but the Urban Blue faction controls most major import-entry seaports and thus most de facto manufacturing), and the factional divisions in most armed forces run between upper and lower ranks rather than between differing regional origins. But the kind of urban unrest seen in 2020 may well devolve to a major feature of life in urban areas, which will last precisely so long as the Urban Blue faction still thinks that sort of thing is boosting rather than hurting its electoral chances.
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3catcircus

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2021, 05:40:11 PM »
You used to be able to sue for slanderous attacks and a reasonable group of your peers would find them offending post to be civilly liable.  Nowadays, you never get to that point because a panicky HR drone has to show that the company acted quickly to address whatever imagined slight was made by you against some mentally ill social media vulture, aided and abetted by a MSM that doesn't care about reporting the truth unless it fits their biased narrative.

Agreed, sadly. The Internet protections granted by Section 230 of the Communications Code have only contributed to this, because they were meant to protect social-media platforms from being legally liable for actionable content posted by users, but have wound up giving those platforms all the content-control power of publishers with none of the responsibilities or obligations. Which is how one company's board of directors can squelch a likely election-swinging story at their own discretion without consequence.

Quote
We are on the cusp of civil war and we don't realize it.  Unfortunately, it likely needs to happen before the mentally ill leftists realize how wrong they are about everything.

I think full-blown civil war is unlikely for a variety of reasons, mostly logistical and economic -- the primary division of conflict in the States is primarily between Urban Blue and Rural Red, both of which have strong economic dependence on the other (the Rural Red faction controls most food supply, but the Urban Blue faction controls most major import-entry seaports and thus most de facto manufacturing), and the factional divisions in most armed forces run between upper and lower ranks rather than between differing regional origins. But the kind of urban unrest seen in 2020 may well devolve to a major feature of life in urban areas, which will last precisely so long as the Urban Blue faction still thinks that sort of thing is boosting rather than hurting its electoral chances.

I don't know about that...  We see how cityfolk devolve into savages when they lose electricity for a day. All we have to do is just stop sending food and fuel to blue states for a week and they'll eat each other or freeze to death.

chen

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2021, 12:31:47 PM »
This is a good idea, I really thought that we really should stop sending food and fuel to blue states for a week.

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 07:01:58 AM by chen »

Ghostmaker

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2021, 11:56:46 AM »
Many deep blue NPCs honestly think that THEY are the ones supporting the red states.


moonsweeper

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Re: Cancelling critical mass
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2021, 01:04:34 PM »
Many deep blue NPCs honestly think that THEY are the ones supporting the red states.

I don't blame most of them...they have been fed the same 'massaged' numbers for so long and lack the ability to do the calculations for themselves. They actually legitimately don't understand.

When the numbers get posted, you almost always see SSI tied in with all of the means tested programs even though one of those is paid into and the others aren't...and they never seem to factor in the 'returned' or 'exempt' taxes that places like Cali and NY get to keep as a form of 'payment' from the federal govt...If Cali was really able to finance everyone else, do you actually think they would be so far in debt...

It is the same type of garbage that had them saying that hospitals weren't getting 'paid' more for Covid-19 diagnoses but then get real quiet when someone asked if there was a 'financial incentive' to classify someone as a Covid-19 patient...The double-speak and legalese is just there to obfuscate the actual value flows.  That way when someone tries to explain something to the average person, they can launch into a 'technical' rebuttal.

On the other hand, I have had a lot of success with my left leaning friends by actually breaking out a calculator, accessing govt databases and drawing pictures/diagrams for the money flow.  When somebody actually takes the time to demonstrate it to them, they actually can figure it out.

That's why you see all the media/govt suppression of information going on.  Religious zealots/true believers will ignore reality but the average person figures it out if someone honestly tries to explain something.  Kind of like where you saw people saying 'I didn't know that.' about the Rittenhouse case once the trial was broadcast.
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