This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman  (Read 4201 times)

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2021, 09:11:42 AM »
The difference is sex.   
I did not say that sex did not matter. What I did say was that skill matters, too, and the clip was a good illustration of a person of low skill not understanding until too late that they had low skill.
Quote from: oggsmash
I think you probably know very, very little as to what is expected of a modern infantry soldier.
Most do know little of it. In short: whatever the profession, it never hurts to be stronger and tougher. Nobody ever says, "I wish I wasn't so strong, it makes my job so hard." The only question is, since getting stronger and tougher requires training, how do you balance that with all the other things you need to train?
Quote from: Rob
Unarmed combat in the armed forces is given lip service at best these days (which is bad, imo).
I think it's been that way for a long time, it certainly was in the Australian forces in the 1990s, same in NZ and UK from what I saw of them. And I was told it was the same in the early 1970s. The military like all large bureaucracies is very slow to change.
Quote from: Rob
I respect her 'grit' but not her unsporting attitude.
I took that as a measure of her disillusionment. Angry and disappointed with herself, she projected that onto her opponent.

  For clarity:  I do not disagree that skill matters.  What I meant is, I can not see that the guy is skilled beyond the bare bones basics.  Given the woman's body language and what she did when hit, she is the same level (around 6 months in a gym 2-3 times a day).  100 percent of the difference as to the outcomes in that ring were because the guy hit harder, was faster, and a lot stronger.   I agree she was low skill.  But so was he.  This was not a case of him having good skill, and hers being poor.  They were both low skill.  We never even see how the guy would react if hit, because he is essentially just hitting a heavy bag (and sloppily at that).    If both parties are low skill, then another determination will decide a victor.  In this case, strength, speed, power...ie the things separating a man and a woman, so sex was the big factor.

   I am not arguing that if she was Amanda Nunes she could not have had a much better result (but the reality is Amanda is strong and fast too, and we put her in there with a 145 pound male pro, she gets her ass kicked badly) but it would be for skill reasons of course, but also more physical parity.   Again, Amanda in there fighting a 145 pound male UFC entry level fighter...she gets destroyed, and it will not be due to lack of skill.

3catcircus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • ?
  • Posts: 261
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2021, 11:06:10 AM »
I find it deeply offensive that women leftist feminazis continue to demand equal rights for women *and* declare trans to *be* women - until they have to compete with them. 

I have no problems with treating everyone the same.  But if you demand equality, then you need to practice equal responsibility.

Should women be in combat, law enforcement, firefighting, construction?  Possibly, other than in the US, because other nations don't change the requirements.  If you need to lift 200 lbs to qualify, then you need to lift 200 lbs. Regardless of gender. If you need to shoot a 300 on the firing range, you need to shoot a 300. Regardless of gender. And it needs to be *all* requirements - no exceptions.

In my younger days when I was in a submarine, I've seen a female machinist from the submarine tender carry a 200 pound pump motor strapped to her back up a vertical ladder to get it off the boat and into the tender's repair shop.  She was terrified of being on the submarine due to the tight quarters.  Would I want her serving in submarines? No.  Likewise, we had men transfer off because they couldn't handle the tight quarters. We also had men who couldn't lift enough weight to do things like drag an unconscious person out of a burning compartment.  They *should* have also been removed.

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3904
  • Now even more Toxic
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2021, 09:19:57 PM »
Greetings!

Here is a video taken at a base in Iraq. A apparently bad-ass US Army *woman* challenged a Marine Infantry grunt to a boxing match, bragging before the match that she could beat any Marine.

Brandon Tatum provides interesting and funny commentary.

The Army chick is *big*--she's large, and evidently weighs 219 pounds.

She gets ruthlessly smoked. She gets crushed to the floor in the first few seconds of the match. The match continues, is refereed, and is entirely supervised. The US Army chick gets fucking beat down every stretch of the way.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Greetings brother!

Well it's the progressive thing to do (or so I'm told by my moral betters), to beat the crap out of a woman is the Je ne vais plus of progressivism.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2021, 09:27:33 PM »
I find it deeply offensive that women leftist feminazis continue to demand equal rights for women *and* declare trans to *be* women - until they have to compete with them. 

I have no problems with treating everyone the same.  But if you demand equality, then you need to practice equal responsibility.

Should women be in combat, law enforcement, firefighting, construction?  Possibly, other than in the US, because other nations don't change the requirements.  If you need to lift 200 lbs to qualify, then you need to lift 200 lbs. Regardless of gender. If you need to shoot a 300 on the firing range, you need to shoot a 300. Regardless of gender. And it needs to be *all* requirements - no exceptions.

In my younger days when I was in a submarine, I've seen a female machinist from the submarine tender carry a 200 pound pump motor strapped to her back up a vertical ladder to get it off the boat and into the tender's repair shop.  She was terrified of being on the submarine due to the tight quarters.  Would I want her serving in submarines? No.  Likewise, we had men transfer off because they couldn't handle the tight quarters. We also had men who couldn't lift enough weight to do things like drag an unconscious person out of a burning compartment.  They *should* have also been removed.

  I had all of a submarine I wanted in prototype (in SC where they have the submarine bolted to the pier).  I was not so much claustrophobic, but I am not small and have wide shoulders, and carbon steel (especially in the machine spaces on that old style sub) is completely unforgiving to the human body.  I had a perma bruise on both shoulders over the 6 months we were there.   No thanks.  I would also say I liked the idea of seeing sunlight, but when underway, I am not so sure anyone in reactor department sees the sun anymore on a surface ship than on a submarine, unless you go to great lengths to do so.

3catcircus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • ?
  • Posts: 261
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2021, 10:05:31 PM »
I find it deeply offensive that women leftist feminazis continue to demand equal rights for women *and* declare trans to *be* women - until they have to compete with them. 

I have no problems with treating everyone the same.  But if you demand equality, then you need to practice equal responsibility.

Should women be in combat, law enforcement, firefighting, construction?  Possibly, other than in the US, because other nations don't change the requirements.  If you need to lift 200 lbs to qualify, then you need to lift 200 lbs. Regardless of gender. If you need to shoot a 300 on the firing range, you need to shoot a 300. Regardless of gender. And it needs to be *all* requirements - no exceptions.

In my younger days when I was in a submarine, I've seen a female machinist from the submarine tender carry a 200 pound pump motor strapped to her back up a vertical ladder to get it off the boat and into the tender's repair shop.  She was terrified of being on the submarine due to the tight quarters.  Would I want her serving in submarines? No.  Likewise, we had men transfer off because they couldn't handle the tight quarters. We also had men who couldn't lift enough weight to do things like drag an unconscious person out of a burning compartment.  They *should* have also been removed.

  I had all of a submarine I wanted in prototype (in SC where they have the submarine bolted to the pier).  I was not so much claustrophobic, but I am not small and have wide shoulders, and carbon steel (especially in the machine spaces on that old style sub) is completely unforgiving to the human body.  I had a perma bruise on both shoulders over the 6 months we were there.   No thanks.  I would also say I liked the idea of seeing sunlight, but when underway, I am not so sure anyone in reactor department sees the sun anymore on a surface ship than on a submarine, unless you go to great lengths to do so.

"Reactor Department." What is this department that had enough bodies of which you speak?  I was always a bit envious whenever I heard surface nukes talk about having enough bodies for watchstanding, separately manning a workcenter, *and* having enough leftovers stuck in Reactor Training division.  I think we topped out at 9 people in RC div.  Three section watch rotation underway with the chief standing four section supervisory watches.  Three section duty days inport.  And handling maintenance and drills.  Lack of sunlight was the least of our worries - it took quite a while for everyone to get qual'ed - at one point we were port/stbd inport duty days.  Luckily, because overall the crew was so small, we were pretty tight as opposed to the 4000+ people CVN city-states where I've heard that gangs (like Crips and Bloods gangs) abounded.

Kiero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 2595
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2021, 06:19:46 AM »
At the present time, the men's records are still significantly more - essentially unchanged from prior years. I presume you're talking about transgender athletes, but the only transgender athlete to participate in Olympic weightlifting has not won any medals, placing last in her group of women in the last Olympics.

Unchanged for time immemorial, because the male body is vastly superior to the female in virtually every avenue of athletic endeavour (barring VO2 efficiency).
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2021, 12:41:29 PM »
I find it deeply offensive that women leftist feminazis continue to demand equal rights for women *and* declare trans to *be* women - until they have to compete with them. 

I have no problems with treating everyone the same.  But if you demand equality, then you need to practice equal responsibility.

Should women be in combat, law enforcement, firefighting, construction?  Possibly, other than in the US, because other nations don't change the requirements.  If you need to lift 200 lbs to qualify, then you need to lift 200 lbs. Regardless of gender. If you need to shoot a 300 on the firing range, you need to shoot a 300. Regardless of gender. And it needs to be *all* requirements - no exceptions.

In my younger days when I was in a submarine, I've seen a female machinist from the submarine tender carry a 200 pound pump motor strapped to her back up a vertical ladder to get it off the boat and into the tender's repair shop.  She was terrified of being on the submarine due to the tight quarters.  Would I want her serving in submarines? No.  Likewise, we had men transfer off because they couldn't handle the tight quarters. We also had men who couldn't lift enough weight to do things like drag an unconscious person out of a burning compartment.  They *should* have also been removed.

  I had all of a submarine I wanted in prototype (in SC where they have the submarine bolted to the pier).  I was not so much claustrophobic, but I am not small and have wide shoulders, and carbon steel (especially in the machine spaces on that old style sub) is completely unforgiving to the human body.  I had a perma bruise on both shoulders over the 6 months we were there.   No thanks.  I would also say I liked the idea of seeing sunlight, but when underway, I am not so sure anyone in reactor department sees the sun anymore on a surface ship than on a submarine, unless you go to great lengths to do so.

"Reactor Department." What is this department that had enough bodies of which you speak?  I was always a bit envious whenever I heard surface nukes talk about having enough bodies for watchstanding, separately manning a workcenter, *and* having enough leftovers stuck in Reactor Training division.  I think we topped out at 9 people in RC div.  Three section watch rotation underway with the chief standing four section supervisory watches.  Three section duty days inport.  And handling maintenance and drills.  Lack of sunlight was the least of our worries - it took quite a while for everyone to get qual'ed - at one point we were port/stbd inport duty days.  Luckily, because overall the crew was so small, we were pretty tight as opposed to the 4000+ people CVN city-states where I've heard that gangs (like Crips and Bloods gangs) abounded.

  I probably missed the "ship board gangs" but we had 3 section watches for most of the time I was on board.  We did eventually hit 4, but for nucs what I have noticed is being bigger didnt mean more time, it just meant more people with less time to put all over the place.  Work days over lapped watches, and you didnt get to miss work just because you came off the mids.  I am sure there were more relaxed surface reactor departments, but our head REALLY wanted to be a full bird captain, so I can not say my time was really much more available than buddies of mine who were on subs.   But you know the saying, choose your rate, choose your fate.  You had to want to be on a sub to be on a sub....  were you fast attack?  Because if you were not I may have to take the complaint with a grain of salt given that slack time Boomers got.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 12:43:48 PM by oggsmash »

3catcircus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • ?
  • Posts: 261
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2021, 04:59:32 PM »
I find it deeply offensive that women leftist feminazis continue to demand equal rights for women *and* declare trans to *be* women - until they have to compete with them. 

I have no problems with treating everyone the same.  But if you demand equality, then you need to practice equal responsibility.

Should women be in combat, law enforcement, firefighting, construction?  Possibly, other than in the US, because other nations don't change the requirements.  If you need to lift 200 lbs to qualify, then you need to lift 200 lbs. Regardless of gender. If you need to shoot a 300 on the firing range, you need to shoot a 300. Regardless of gender. And it needs to be *all* requirements - no exceptions.

In my younger days when I was in a submarine, I've seen a female machinist from the submarine tender carry a 200 pound pump motor strapped to her back up a vertical ladder to get it off the boat and into the tender's repair shop.  She was terrified of being on the submarine due to the tight quarters.  Would I want her serving in submarines? No.  Likewise, we had men transfer off because they couldn't handle the tight quarters. We also had men who couldn't lift enough weight to do things like drag an unconscious person out of a burning compartment.  They *should* have also been removed.

  I had all of a submarine I wanted in prototype (in SC where they have the submarine bolted to the pier).  I was not so much claustrophobic, but I am not small and have wide shoulders, and carbon steel (especially in the machine spaces on that old style sub) is completely unforgiving to the human body.  I had a perma bruise on both shoulders over the 6 months we were there.   No thanks.  I would also say I liked the idea of seeing sunlight, but when underway, I am not so sure anyone in reactor department sees the sun anymore on a surface ship than on a submarine, unless you go to great lengths to do so.

"Reactor Department." What is this department that had enough bodies of which you speak?  I was always a bit envious whenever I heard surface nukes talk about having enough bodies for watchstanding, separately manning a workcenter, *and* having enough leftovers stuck in Reactor Training division.  I think we topped out at 9 people in RC div.  Three section watch rotation underway with the chief standing four section supervisory watches.  Three section duty days inport.  And handling maintenance and drills.  Lack of sunlight was the least of our worries - it took quite a while for everyone to get qual'ed - at one point we were port/stbd inport duty days.  Luckily, because overall the crew was so small, we were pretty tight as opposed to the 4000+ people CVN city-states where I've heard that gangs (like Crips and Bloods gangs) abounded.

  I probably missed the "ship board gangs" but we had 3 section watches for most of the time I was on board.  We did eventually hit 4, but for nucs what I have noticed is being bigger didnt mean more time, it just meant more people with less time to put all over the place.  Work days over lapped watches, and you didnt get to miss work just because you came off the mids.  I am sure there were more relaxed surface reactor departments, but our head REALLY wanted to be a full bird captain, so I can not say my time was really much more available than buddies of mine who were on subs.   But you know the saying, choose your rate, choose your fate.  You had to want to be on a sub to be on a sub....  were you fast attack?  Because if you were not I may have to take the complaint with a grain of salt given that slack time Boomers got.

Yep, I was fast attack.  Both on a Permit (Thresher) class deathtrap and a first-gen 688.  Two ORSEs, a WESTPAC, an EASTPAC, rabbit ops, some secret squirrel shit, and two decommissionings.

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2021, 05:13:24 PM »
I find it deeply offensive that women leftist feminazis continue to demand equal rights for women *and* declare trans to *be* women - until they have to compete with them. 

I have no problems with treating everyone the same.  But if you demand equality, then you need to practice equal responsibility.

Should women be in combat, law enforcement, firefighting, construction?  Possibly, other than in the US, because other nations don't change the requirements.  If you need to lift 200 lbs to qualify, then you need to lift 200 lbs. Regardless of gender. If you need to shoot a 300 on the firing range, you need to shoot a 300. Regardless of gender. And it needs to be *all* requirements - no exceptions.

In my younger days when I was in a submarine, I've seen a female machinist from the submarine tender carry a 200 pound pump motor strapped to her back up a vertical ladder to get it off the boat and into the tender's repair shop.  She was terrified of being on the submarine due to the tight quarters.  Would I want her serving in submarines? No.  Likewise, we had men transfer off because they couldn't handle the tight quarters. We also had men who couldn't lift enough weight to do things like drag an unconscious person out of a burning compartment.  They *should* have also been removed.

  I had all of a submarine I wanted in prototype (in SC where they have the submarine bolted to the pier).  I was not so much claustrophobic, but I am not small and have wide shoulders, and carbon steel (especially in the machine spaces on that old style sub) is completely unforgiving to the human body.  I had a perma bruise on both shoulders over the 6 months we were there.   No thanks.  I would also say I liked the idea of seeing sunlight, but when underway, I am not so sure anyone in reactor department sees the sun anymore on a surface ship than on a submarine, unless you go to great lengths to do so.

"Reactor Department." What is this department that had enough bodies of which you speak?  I was always a bit envious whenever I heard surface nukes talk about having enough bodies for watchstanding, separately manning a workcenter, *and* having enough leftovers stuck in Reactor Training division.  I think we topped out at 9 people in RC div.  Three section watch rotation underway with the chief standing four section supervisory watches.  Three section duty days inport.  And handling maintenance and drills.  Lack of sunlight was the least of our worries - it took quite a while for everyone to get qual'ed - at one point we were port/stbd inport duty days.  Luckily, because overall the crew was so small, we were pretty tight as opposed to the 4000+ people CVN city-states where I've heard that gangs (like Crips and Bloods gangs) abounded.

  I probably missed the "ship board gangs" but we had 3 section watches for most of the time I was on board.  We did eventually hit 4, but for nucs what I have noticed is being bigger didnt mean more time, it just meant more people with less time to put all over the place.  Work days over lapped watches, and you didnt get to miss work just because you came off the mids.  I am sure there were more relaxed surface reactor departments, but our head REALLY wanted to be a full bird captain, so I can not say my time was really much more available than buddies of mine who were on subs.   But you know the saying, choose your rate, choose your fate.  You had to want to be on a sub to be on a sub....  were you fast attack?  Because if you were not I may have to take the complaint with a grain of salt given that slack time Boomers got.

Yep, I was fast attack.  Both on a Permit (Thresher) class deathtrap and a first-gen 688.  Two ORSEs, a WESTPAC, an EASTPAC, rabbit ops, some secret squirrel shit, and two decommissionings.

  Then you did in fact...have to work for a living.  Had an adviser is NNPS who was fast attack.  He said it sucked. 

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2021, 05:15:13 PM »
Did you want fast attack?  I never met anyone who wanted one.  Every sub guy I knew or talked to went subs to be on a boomer...and some of them got a surprise.

3catcircus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • ?
  • Posts: 261
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2021, 08:04:50 PM »
Did you want fast attack?  I never met anyone who wanted one.  Every sub guy I knew or talked to went subs to be on a boomer...and some of them got a surprise.

I wanted a boomer on the Left Coast and the only availability was East Coast.  Then an "urgent need" came for reactor operators - for a fast attack.  That was going into decomm in 6 months.  Lots of local target services ops until the PCS from SD to PH.  Decomn sucked for the first half (Pearl Harbor took over a year to decomm).  Shift work with no days off for like 4 months straight.  Days spent the entire time getting paperwork signed off so that swings could set initial conditions so that the midnight boys could do the work.  Things for better for awhile after all of the preps were done but sitting there in Maneuvering on a shutdown watch breathing in welding slag for 6 hrs wasn't fun at all.  Nothing like tasting metal knowing that you're being poisoned...  After we were able to secure watches in the plant, things got a lot better - until they started loaning us out to other boats so we could "maintain proficiency." Even though there were no 594s in Pearl and all the 637s weren't in need.  So - how do I "maintain proficiency" in an entirely different plant other than spending the time getting qualified?!?!  I lucked out (I guess) in that the boat they loaned me to was the one I got sent to after my first boat was far enough along decomm that they could release us, so I was further along in quals then I would otherwise be.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9288
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2021, 10:03:41 PM »
3catcircus, I have to say, your comment is a really great example of why in game groups I've found the ex-military guys don't care much about skill systems. Whatever you're qualified in you won't be posted to do, and whatever needs to be done you won't be qualified in.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

thedungeondelver

  • Advanced D&D
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5985
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2021, 12:33:37 AM »
3catcircus, I have to say, your comment is a really great example of why in game groups I've found the ex-military guys don't care much about skill systems. Whatever you're qualified in you won't be posted to do, and whatever needs to be done you won't be qualified in.

And whatever you ask for you absolutely positively will not get.  The US military will go out of their way to put you as far from that as possible.  Case in point: a friend of mine was activated when ODS kicked off.  He wanted a transfer to a field unit; the conventional wisdom of the time said that there'd be CBRN flying around, and his specialty (medical and viral pathology) would be a hot commodity in theater.

They sent him from Florida (where he lived at the time) to a hospital in Spokane to wash out test tubes and beakers for 7 months, then cashiered him in the big post-cold-war/post-ODS draw-down.

THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.
- Kyle Aaron
A katana's just a fucking sword, you assholes! - The Shaman

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2021, 08:04:06 AM »
I am reminded of a line from Heinlein's Glory Road:

"Major Ian Hay, back in the “War to End War,” described the structure of military organizations: Regardless of T.O., all military bureaucracies consist of a Surprise Party Department, a Practical Joke Department, and a Fairy Godmother Department. The first two process most matters as the third is very small; the Fairy Godmother Department is one elderly female GS-5 clerk usually out on sick leave."

3catcircus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • ?
  • Posts: 261
Re: Boxing Match Between a US Army Woman and a Male Marine Infantryman
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2021, 08:22:04 AM »
3catcircus, I have to say, your comment is a really great example of why in game groups I've found the ex-military guys don't care much about skill systems. Whatever you're qualified in you won't be posted to do, and whatever needs to be done you won't be qualified in.

It's not so much this, as it is the sheer incompetence by the mid-grade officers - those too scared to get out after their 5 year commitment and not senior enough to have experience, that made it suck.  Much less of that in the submarine community than in Big Navy.

That having been said, you do learn the art of the skate, and to wield the power of the E-4 Mafia, when you're newly onboard.  On a submarine, it's a bit different in that E-5 and E-6 really aren't more liferesque, and even the chiefs aren't terrible.  Vastly different being able to just knock on the CO's door and say "Hey, boss, I need to talk to you about..." than being on a carrier where you aren't even allowed to be in certain passageways or certain decks so the O-gangers don't have to see the peasants...  The CO on my 2nd boat would occasionally just quietly come down to the engine room at the end of the workday when inport and plop down in Maneuvering or wander into the roving watchstander - disconcerting at first until you realized he just wanted a chance to get away from his Dept Heads and find out what the real issues were and what things he could instantly fix. Because, usually, officers mangle the CO's orders. A "hey Eng, can you get E-Div to dial up the temperature a few degrees on my hot water heater?" by the time it got down to the guy tasked with the work, became "The CO's hot water heater is broken - you can't leave for the day until you fix it." Or worse "CO secured showers until further notice." The CO knew it was easier to grab one of the EMs and ask them to dial up the temp - he could do it himself, but it was E-Div's gear and going to the guy who would be doing the work directly got him hotter water in 5 minutes instead of taking all day and possibly not having hot water...  Big picture things went through the normal chain of command.  This guy knew what was the best way to get things done.

There are certain intangibles that manifest in tangible ways that make the difference between military leaders that are worth a damn vs the "politicians in military uniforms" just punching tickets.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 08:34:05 AM by 3catcircus »