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Author Topic: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!  (Read 31207 times)

Pat
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #210 on: August 24, 2021, 04:42:57 PM »
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan.
I posted a couple days ago about his drop of 7% over the first weekend of the Afghan debacle. That pulled him from 53% to 46%, but 41% is another 5 points down. That's particularly remarkable for Biden, because his approval rating prior to this was absurdly steady. And that's not just compared to to someone divisive like Trump; compared to Biden, even Obama's ratings were all over the place. Biden's rating just didn't budge, regardless of what was going on. Until now.

Edit: 1% off, fixed
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 04:48:43 PM by Pat »

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2021, 04:46:31 PM »
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan.
I posted a couple days ago about his drop of 7% over the first weekend of the Afghan debacle. That pulled him from 54% to 47%, but 41% is another 6 points down. That's particularly remarkable for Biden, because his approval rating prior to this was absurdly steady. And that's not just compared to to someone divisive like Trump; compared to Biden, even Obama's ratings were all over the place. Biden's rating just didn't budge, regardless of what was going on. Until now.

  Well....its almost like the people who decide things decided it is time to show someone the back door.   I do not know how anyone can watch that dude try to answer questions about this and not have their confidence shaken just a tad.

moonsweeper

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #212 on: August 24, 2021, 04:46:59 PM »
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan.

Well that's what happens when he is setup as the scapegoat for the intelligence agencies and the military-industrial complex.  I'm just curious what other failures they are going to push off on the dementia-ridden placeholder...

I'm guessing the economic crash for sure, not sure about anything else...
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #213 on: August 24, 2021, 05:46:42 PM »
Well that's what happens when he is setup as the scapegoat for the intelligence agencies and the military-industrial complex.

Yup. The man has borderline no opinions of his own. He is a tired old man. This is the machine trying to create a scapegoat.

Melichor

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #214 on: August 24, 2021, 07:18:47 PM »
The people who voted against Trump, while not really voting for Biden, are reaping the consequences of their choice.
Nothing productive accomplished, in spite of controlling the entirety of the government.
A stretched thin and tanking economy.
The pandemic that will never end, shots or no shots.
Freedom being restricted. Being expected to give up liberty for safety....
China Sea.
Border crisis.
Afghan crisis.
Foreign allies upset and watching us waver in indecisive fear.
America is weak on the world stage once again.

I have faith that America will endure, but it's painful to watch at the moment.
The weak are setting up the hard times for the strong to emerge.

Mistwell

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #215 on: August 25, 2021, 12:30:39 AM »
The people who voted against Trump, while not really voting for Biden, are reaping the consequences of their choice.
Nothing productive accomplished, in spite of controlling the entirety of the government.

You say that like it's a bad thing when the Government produces and accomplishes nothing.

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2021, 07:17:11 AM »
The people who voted against Trump, while not really voting for Biden, are reaping the consequences of their choice.
Nothing productive accomplished, in spite of controlling the entirety of the government.

You say that like it's a bad thing when the Government produces and accomplishes nothing.

It is because they use your money (and in this case, people's lives) to achieve that. The state can only use your money against your best interests.


BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?

Pat
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2021, 10:31:23 AM »
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2021, 10:38:44 AM »
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?

Pat
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #219 on: August 25, 2021, 11:07:28 AM »
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?
Are you asking a legitimate question where you don't know the answer, or are you trying to set something up? Because it feels a lot more like the latter.

This is also trivially googable or duckduckgoable. You could go to the Wikipedia page, read the intro, and get a good idea of the justifications.

The initial justification for getting into Afghanistan was terrorism. I made no claims about whether it was a reasonable threat. The reason they stayed for 20 years, seemed to be an attempt to turn it into a friendly state based on Western values, which failed spectacularly.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 11:09:36 AM by Pat »

jhkim

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #220 on: August 25, 2021, 11:09:06 AM »
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?

We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #221 on: August 25, 2021, 11:50:38 AM »
We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.

I agree with your mindset; retaliation after an attack is the right course of action. But the culprits of 9/11 are not in Afghanistan. This wasn't the first time the US meddled in Middle Eastern affairs; this gave them a permenent excuse, the narrative of which cannot be questioned in spite of its inconsistencies. In the words of the neocons, "a new Pearl Harbor".

What is "nation-building" in this context? Basically indoctrinating/brainwashing the populace so that they won't become a threat?

Lurkndog

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #222 on: August 25, 2021, 12:23:10 PM »
What is "nation-building" in this context? Basically indoctrinating/brainwashing the populace so that they won't become a threat?

After toppling the Taliban, the idea was to build up Afghanistan into a modern state that wouldn't be a haven for terrorists.

The problem was that Afghanistan has never been a unified country. Historically it has always been a collection of miserable warlord fiefdoms, set up in isolated pockets of terrain separated by mountains. Whatever central government existed was weak, and its power didn't really extend out into the far corners of the territory.

Our plan was to shore up the central government and build roads to join the isolated pockets into one larger country. But the central government proved to be corrupt and inefficient, and building roads through mountains is no easy task.

We did a lot better job of nation building in Iraq, but Iraq was already much farther along the path to being a modern state when we started.

The poster child for nation-building is, of course, Japan, where we were able to both force a complete ideological break with the Imperial Japan of old, and set them back on their feet economically, so that they became a prosperous modern country, and a strong ally.

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #223 on: August 25, 2021, 12:54:11 PM »
What is "nation-building" in this context? Basically indoctrinating/brainwashing the populace so that they won't become a threat?

After toppling the Taliban, the idea was to build up Afghanistan into a modern state that wouldn't be a haven for terrorists.

The problem was that Afghanistan has never been a unified country. Historically it has always been a collection of miserable warlord fiefdoms, set up in isolated pockets of terrain separated by mountains. Whatever central government existed was weak, and its power didn't really extend out into the far corners of the territory.

Our plan was to shore up the central government and build roads to join the isolated pockets into one larger country. But the central government proved to be corrupt and inefficient, and building roads through mountains is no easy task.

We did a lot better job of nation building in Iraq, but Iraq was already much farther along the path to being a modern state when we started.

The poster child for nation-building is, of course, Japan, where we were able to both force a complete ideological break with the Imperial Japan of old, and set them back on their feet economically, so that they became a prosperous modern country, and a strong ally.

It is not America's right nor obligation to "build nations" or "ensure the world is safe for democracy", nor can they do it; it's logistically impossible for any country. "Nation building" is nothing more than a euphemism installing a puppet regime after overthrowing the previous one. This is what they did with Japan, Germany (which was partitioned between globalist west and soviet east and erased as a military competitor just as they did with Japan) and many such other countries which did not align with globalism, terrorist or not. They make up excuses like weapons of mass destruction, babies in incubators, the rape of Belgium, and other made up imminent threats to justify an invasion. America aligned with regimes which could qualify as terrorist or international threats just as well; USSR, Condor Plan (Argentina, Chile, Nicaragua, etc.), Zionism, Samuel Doe, African regimes, Plutarco ElĂ­as Calles, Batista, etc. so if it were about values or human rights, they wouldn't have done any of that (not to mention human rights violations at home)

If you want to stop having terrorists, don't hang out in the middle east; it's better to just stick to your own territory and let other countries be; this was pretty much the policy of America until Wilson and they did just fine. I know times have changed, but this is just adding problems where there were none. Why was the US in the middle east in the first place?

Besides, it will fail because their islamic culture is inherently incomptible with western values. There can be no distinction between mosque and state (lol), no respect for "diversity", no such thing as free speech, etc. They never went through a protestant reformation the peace of Westphalia or French revolution.

Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong.

Mistwell

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #224 on: August 25, 2021, 01:40:28 PM »
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?

We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.

The invasion of Afghanistan had 88% public approval at the time. Which is about as close to unanimous as our nation gets.