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Author Topic: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!  (Read 31247 times)

SHARK

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #195 on: August 23, 2021, 07:23:48 PM »
Yeah, our fine culture is deteriorating like a big pile of dog-shit in the summer sun, and we wonder why different people around the world have zero interest in adopting our fucking cesspool culture?

We have a years and years of work to do right here in the US to even hope to unfuck our debauched, polluted and degenerate culture, before we even think about wanting to teach other people a fucking thing.

SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California". There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?

Greetings!

Hi, Jhkim. Yes, I do. I think Vietnamese Americans are awesome. Why do you ask?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

jhkim

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #196 on: August 23, 2021, 08:01:05 PM »
SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California". There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?

Hi, Jhkim. Yes, I do. I think Vietnamese Americans are awesome. Why do you ask?

I think the parallels of Vietnam and Afghanistan are pretty clear. We supported a local government but then pulled out and the government was overrun by anti-American forces, resulting in thousand of refugees applying to resettle in the U.S. In the 1978 and 1979, the U.S. accepted hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees, with little ability to vet their backgrounds.

Certainly someone in 1979 might claim that the U.S. as in terrible shape to accept refugees. Our economy was in terrible shape and we were going through massive inflation (13.3%). We had widespread political violence with black power and other dissident groups. The Vietnam War itself had brought massive leftist protests as well as significant domestic terrorism. The Vietnamese were characterized as communist - based on the success of the VC with the Vietnamese people compared to the U.S.

Despite these, do you think it was a good idea for the U.S. to accept Vietnamese refugees? If so, why? And would those same reasons apply to Afghanistan given the similarities?

SHARK

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #197 on: August 23, 2021, 08:46:42 PM »
SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California". There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?

Hi, Jhkim. Yes, I do. I think Vietnamese Americans are awesome. Why do you ask?

I think the parallels of Vietnam and Afghanistan are pretty clear. We supported a local government but then pulled out and the government was overrun by anti-American forces, resulting in thousand of refugees applying to resettle in the U.S. In the 1978 and 1979, the U.S. accepted hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees, with little ability to vet their backgrounds.

Certainly someone in 1979 might claim that the U.S. as in terrible shape to accept refugees. Our economy was in terrible shape and we were going through massive inflation (13.3%). We had widespread political violence with black power and other dissident groups. The Vietnam War itself had brought massive leftist protests as well as significant domestic terrorism. The Vietnamese were characterized as communist - based on the success of the VC with the Vietnamese people compared to the U.S.

Despite these, do you think it was a good idea for the U.S. to accept Vietnamese refugees? If so, why? And would those same reasons apply to Afghanistan given the similarities?

Greetings!

Ahh, I see. Well, not all nations and people are equal. Afghanistan is not equal to Vietnam. Many of the Vietnamese refugees were Catholic. Most of the Afghans are Muslims. The South Vietnamese had many years of supporting us. The Afghans? Well, some of them have supported us, but who knows about the rest?

Considering the history of terrorism from fucking Muslims, the Afghans need to be carefully screened and vetted. Not just open the fucking gates and let them pour into our fucking country. Fuck that.

Having said that, the Afghans that assisted us as allies should be rescued, along with their families.

This whole situation is an epic fucking disaster by fucking Biden, Kamala, and this whole corrupt, pathetic regime. The State Department, the DOD, the generals, they are all absolutely fucking weak, pathetic, and worthless. This is an enormous defeat, and the entire scenario is a gigantic corrupt clusterfuck. It's shameful, and embarassing. None of this should have ever happened to begin with.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #198 on: August 23, 2021, 08:50:30 PM »
The most popular president ever right here, folks.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/joe-bidens-aides-too-afraid-to-tell-him-he-was-wrong-on-afghanistan-say-white-house-insiders/ar-AANzWlc?ocid=uxbndlbing

Remember, NeverTrumpies, you voted for this. You demanded this, because the Orange Man was going around upsetting the rice bowls.

Hope it was worth it.

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #199 on: August 24, 2021, 08:15:35 AM »
As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.

First of all, I don't think that's possible. We had over a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees just after the end of the Vietnam War, but that was only possible because they were able to leave the country by boat and shipped in large numbers - hence they were known as "boat people". Most of them could not be screened because they had few records and no way to confirm what documents they had with inside Vietnam after the government fell. Afghanistan being land-locked, this route isn't available.

Given the situation, I think we will have fewer refugees and that they will be better screened than Vietnamese refugees in 1978-79. That could certainly still be too many refugees and not enough screening for some people, but it's a relative statement. There was plenty of criticism and controversy over accepting Vietnamese refugees at the time.


Even if we were to get 2 million, though, I don't think it would show any truth that wasn't already revealed by the millions of Irish immigrants in the 1800s or the millions of various other immigrants in 20th century.

  If you feel the level of differences in basic culture and lifestyle, as well as social norms and expectations of the 1800's Irish and the USA are the same as the cultural differences of Afghans in 2021, you are simply a moron.  I do not mean that as an attack, I think you would have to be a moron to think that.  I do not think you are a moron, so you are either just firing off an answer, or have given it zero critical thought. 

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2021, 08:40:08 AM »
 I walked away for a few minutes and came to my senses.  I now agree, 2 million afghanis will have no or little visible negative impact on the USA.  It is pretty much exactly the same as taking 100k refugees 42 years ago.  And definitely the same as taking on millions of IMMIGRANTS (oh, that is a different word...where the person has to come at some risk and effort and expense of their own) who came to a nation that had zero social programs to support them, making it sink or swim.   

   I also remembered, what do I care, if it is great, wonderful.  If there is a miscalculation and we have friction...well I am leaving anyway.  Apologies if anything I said was a little too reactionary.  I am certain it will work out for what is best for everyone.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2021, 09:19:31 AM »
I walked away for a few minutes and came to my senses.  I now agree, 2 million afghanis will have no or little visible negative impact on the USA.  It is pretty much exactly the same as taking 100k refugees 42 years ago.  And definitely the same as taking on millions of IMMIGRANTS (oh, that is a different word...where the person has to come at some risk and effort and expense of their own) who came to a nation that had zero social programs to support them, making it sink or swim.   

   I also remembered, what do I care, if it is great, wonderful.  If there is a miscalculation and we have friction...well I am leaving anyway.  Apologies if anything I said was a little too reactionary.  I am certain it will work out for what is best for everyone.
No, I'd say your first post was pretty much on the money, and that jhkim is just an idiot.

Pat
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #202 on: August 24, 2021, 10:26:01 AM »
John Kim seems to approach a lot of social issues as a particle physicist, i.e. control a few variables to isolate one element, and the results can be used to predict future behavior with a high degree of certainty. The problem is that doesn't work with social sciences, which involve complex and messy human behavior, where isolating elements is often an exercise in futility, experimenting is often unethical, even seemingly ideal natural experiments mask endless uncontrolled variables that can have a huge effect on the outcomes, and successful prognostication is mostly blind luck, perhaps with a smidgen of art.

The idea that if you can just identify a handful of similarities, then two radically different groups in radically different cultural milieus will have the same outcomes, probably comes from that mindset.

jhkim

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #203 on: August 24, 2021, 11:03:30 AM »
As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.

First of all, I don't think that's possible. We had over a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees just after the end of the Vietnam War, but that was only possible because they were able to leave the country by boat and shipped in large numbers - hence they were known as "boat people". Most of them could not be screened because they had few records and no way to confirm what documents they had with inside Vietnam after the government fell. Afghanistan being land-locked, this route isn't available.

Given the situation, I think we will have fewer refugees and that they will be better screened than Vietnamese refugees in 1978-79. That could certainly still be too many refugees and not enough screening for some people, but it's a relative statement. There was plenty of criticism and controversy over accepting Vietnamese refugees at the time.


Even if we were to get 2 million, though, I don't think it would show any truth that wasn't already revealed by the millions of Irish immigrants in the 1800s or the millions of various other immigrants in 20th century.

  If you feel the level of differences in basic culture and lifestyle, as well as social norms and expectations of the 1800's Irish and the USA are the same as the cultural differences of Afghans in 2021, you are simply a moron.  I do not mean that as an attack, I think you would have to be a moron to think that.  I do not think you are a moron, so you are either just firing off an answer, or have given it zero critical thought.

oggsmash - I didn't make that claim. It seems like you've leapt from "John made a comparison of A and B" to "John is a moron who says that A and B are identical". 

I don't think that the Irish and Afghans are identical.

The point is that we already have tons of different immigrant experiences here in the U.S. We have 32 million Irish-Americans, 5 million Chinese-Americans, 4 million Indian-Americans, 2 million Vietnamese-Americans, etc. Regardless of how one rates the difference of the hypothetical 2 million Afghan refugees compared to any other large immigrant group, it would still just be one more sample out of the dozens of other immigrant nationalities in the millions. I don't think it's going to show anything fundamental about immigrants overall.

jhkim

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #204 on: August 24, 2021, 11:14:57 AM »
John Kim seems to approach a lot of social issues as a particle physicist, i.e. control a few variables to isolate one element, and the results can be used to predict future behavior with a high degree of certainty.

I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I would say the opposite. I would say to take social predictions with a huge grain of salt. The social sciences have always had major problems with reproducibility.

Specifically in this case, oggsmash is arguing that if only we had 2 million Afghan refugees that the fundamental truth would be revealed. I am claiming that the sample wouldn't add any clarity. It would just be one more sample out of dozens, and wouldn't improve any future predictions.

More broadly, I feel that oggsmash has made more specific social predictions than I have.

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #205 on: August 24, 2021, 12:26:25 PM »
John Kim seems to approach a lot of social issues as a particle physicist, i.e. control a few variables to isolate one element, and the results can be used to predict future behavior with a high degree of certainty.

I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I would say the opposite. I would say to take social predictions with a huge grain of salt. The social sciences have always had major problems with reproducibility.

Specifically in this case, oggsmash is arguing that if only we had 2 million Afghan refugees that the fundamental truth would be revealed. I am claiming that the sample wouldn't add any clarity. It would just be one more sample out of dozens, and wouldn't improve any future predictions.

More broadly, I feel that oggsmash has made more specific social predictions than I have.

  I absolutely have.  I also recanted and said its all good and it will work out for the best.  I am sure a culture that embraces fucking 10 year old boys is going to go over extremely well in some circles in the USA, and meet some friction in others, just like  when other people from other cultures had some friction.  I have decided, what's a little friction?

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #206 on: August 24, 2021, 01:36:38 PM »
Meanwhile, Sleepy Joe continues to demonstrate his adeptness in being the bottom bitch for the Taliban.

Sends the head of the CIA over to fucking beg for extensions on getting people out past August 31st. Taliban: 'LOLnope. Oh yeah, you're not taking any more Afghanis either.'

Jesus. But hey, no more mean tweets right?

DocJones

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #207 on: August 24, 2021, 01:37:12 PM »
The coming Aug 31 deadline might be a problem. :-(


oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #208 on: August 24, 2021, 02:08:35 PM »
The coming Aug 31 deadline might be a problem. :-(



  I think that might nix my thoughts on getting lots of refugees.  Heck, or even Americans who were living in afghanistan when they knew it was going to change hands....?   In any event, I guess the best way to make sure you have constant war, is to really fuck up ending a looong war so badly, you have no choice....BUT TO DECLARE WAR.

Mistwell

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