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Author Topic: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!  (Read 31227 times)

jhkim

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #120 on: August 18, 2021, 03:56:40 PM »
Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.

https://www.etvbharat.com/english/national/bharat/thanks-to-us-taliban-has-an-air-force-now-11-military-bases/na20210816182849150

You make it sound like they got some poxy Army surplus.

I don't see where you get that from what I wrote. That article seems to back up exactly what I said. The weapons in the Taliban hands are those given to the Afghan government forces over two decades of support. Yes, those arms are substantial - since over the twenty years, we have spent billions in training and arming the Afghan army.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have spent so much to arm them in the first place. But that's a long-term strategic problem, not something from this year.

In terms of how to handle the withdrawal (which Trump had agreed to), the dilemma is whether we should have tried to reclaim or destroy the weapons of the Afghan army when we withdrew. I maintain that if we took away our allies' weapons, it would have seemed like an even greater betrayal to them. Maybe we should have done it anyway, but it's not an easy choice.

Pat
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #121 on: August 18, 2021, 04:02:33 PM »
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.

This is generally true but Afghanistan was never part of the Ottoman empire. And regarding the Ottoman's, they kept control of unruly provinces by executing the leaders of said province every time shit started. They'd show up, arrest the local leaders, and kill them. Once they lost the ability to project power (ala Saudi Arabia) it started to fall apart.

I don't think such a strategy would have worked in Afghanistan, short of genocide.
I didn't say Afghanistan was part of the Ottoman Empire, but its collapse destabilized the whole region and was the seed that led to things like the rise of Islamic extremism, and more broadly even things like the World Wars and rise of the Soviet Union. It's a big part of the reason why the whole Middle East has become a quagmire, and its problems seem so intractable.

Ok. But what does that have to do with Afghanistan?
It's one of the roots of the quagmire which has enmeshed the region, including Afghanistan. I said that in my first post.

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #122 on: August 18, 2021, 04:41:19 PM »
Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.

Japan has a lower suicide rate than other countries; even lower than the US. And I'm sure the reason why Spain's economy went through a crisis is due to its lack of young and vibrant Somali refugees and not labor regulations...

Why would diversity strangthen any society? How does it work, exactly? What is the perfect diversity ratio? It doesn't make any sense. Europe does not benefit from muslim immigration, USA does not benefit from them either.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #123 on: August 18, 2021, 04:55:44 PM »
Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.

https://www.etvbharat.com/english/national/bharat/thanks-to-us-taliban-has-an-air-force-now-11-military-bases/na20210816182849150

You make it sound like they got some poxy Army surplus.

I don't see where you get that from what I wrote. That article seems to back up exactly what I said. The weapons in the Taliban hands are those given to the Afghan government forces over two decades of support. Yes, those arms are substantial - since over the twenty years, we have spent billions in training and arming the Afghan army.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have spent so much to arm them in the first place. But that's a long-term strategic problem, not something from this year.

In terms of how to handle the withdrawal (which Trump had agreed to), the dilemma is whether we should have tried to reclaim or destroy the weapons of the Afghan army when we withdrew. I maintain that if we took away our allies' weapons, it would have seemed like an even greater betrayal to them. Maybe we should have done it anyway, but it's not an easy choice.
Do you know where Bagram AFB is?

Do you know how we 'turned it over' to the Afghani army?

Maybe you should look it up.

And then you can explain why Biden did this: https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/bidens-state-dept-halted-trump-era-crisis-response-plan/

And then you can wonder why you hitched your wagon to a drooling hair sniffer and his retarded puppet masters.

GriswaldTerrastone
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #124 on: August 18, 2021, 04:59:52 PM »
The people behind all of this are going to learn the hard way- once again- that you do not control chaos, it controls YOU.
I'm 55. My profile won't record this. It's only right younger members know how old I am.

Shasarak

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #125 on: August 18, 2021, 05:27:40 PM »
If they're abandoned, who will ever want to work with the US in the future?

You would have to be born yesterday not to realise that this [American evacuation] was coming.

There was even an extra 3 months on top of what Trump was going to give to prepare.
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jhkim

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #126 on: August 18, 2021, 05:34:15 PM »
Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.

Japan has a lower suicide rate than other countries; even lower than the US. And I'm sure the reason why Spain's economy went through a crisis is due to its lack of young and vibrant Somali refugees and not labor regulations...

Why would diversity strangthen any society? How does it work, exactly? What is the perfect diversity ratio? It doesn't make any sense. Europe does not benefit from muslim immigration, USA does not benefit from them either.

Interesting. Ten years ago, Japan's suicide rate was much higher - but it seems to have dropped precipitously since 2010, while the U.S. rate has continued a steady rise since 2000. From 1960 to 2010, the Japanese suicide rate has been at least 50% higher than the U.S. rate. cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan   So you're correct for 2020, but given the mixed data, I don't think it shows that much about the broader point. (Also, on a personal note, I'm depressed to see that South Korea's suicide rate has risen even higher while Japan's has been dropping. South Korea is another non-diverse society.)

As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.

deathknight4044

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #127 on: August 18, 2021, 05:52:19 PM »
Quote
As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.

Yet the data you were asserting is so important refutes this idea.



Quote
I'm depressed to see that South Korea's suicide rate has risen even higher while Japan's has been dropping. South Korea is another non-diverse society.)

Meanwhile Seoul looks distinctly Korean, clean, low crime, and high trust while Paris looks like this:

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #128 on: August 18, 2021, 05:57:38 PM »
Linking lack of diversity to suicide is idiotic. Im sure making a toxic job market even more competitive is exactly what South Korea needs.

deathknight4044

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #129 on: August 18, 2021, 06:06:09 PM »
Linking lack of diversity to suicide is idiotic. Im sure making a toxic job market even more competitive is exactly what South Korea needs.

Interesting study discussing mental illness and diversity: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/201/4/282.full


Quote
For every ten percentage point reduction in own-group density, the relative odds of reporting psychotic experiences increased 1.07 times (95% CI 1.01–1.14, P = 0.03 (trend)) for the total minority ethnic sample. In general, people living in areas of lower own-group density experienced greater social adversity that was in turn associated with reporting psychotic experiences.

Jam The MF

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #130 on: August 18, 2021, 06:16:27 PM »
Biden.  A good name for a laxative.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #131 on: August 18, 2021, 06:50:26 PM »
As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.

Diversity only applies to white countries. I'm not hinting at any conspiracy here; I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of thinking white societies benefit from diversity while third-world countries do not need mass European migration; China doesn't need them, South Africa wouldn't benefit from Nordic migration, the Natives didn't benefit from Columbus, Israel doesn't need christians, Turkey doesn't need jews, etc.; it's just Europe and the US who can't live without their daily dose of illegals. This shows you the racist mindset behind all wokeism; minorities are treated as invalid beings who need constant praise; they're compensating because deep down they see them as lesser beings worthy of pity and paternalistic sympathy. In the process, they destroy societies and their favors will not be reciprocated; once they become a minority no one will give a fuck about them; the only group that does care about minorities is white people; the rest sleep just fine without any sort of collective guilt for slavery (not that they should, though).

It's a narrative. If it were such a strength, people would ask for more and more diversity yet the opposite happens; it is the governments and the media that have to convince people 24/7 that diversity is a benefit, and the people almost everywhere have a kneejerk reaction against immigration, no matter the place. And the civic nationalist, civil-rights mythology is keeping people blind to this blatant and readily-apparent fact. They have to think that people who move into their country are there to play by the rules and share the values they take for granted and not just because it gives them better opportunities (and welfare in some cases). They don't carry along with themselves the constitutionalist, republican, individualist, post-enlightenment mindset which is peculiar to Western Europe.

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #132 on: August 18, 2021, 07:31:32 PM »
The problems with illegal and unlimited immigration is not a failure of civic nationalism; it's a failure to apply civic nationalism.

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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #133 on: August 18, 2021, 07:45:29 PM »
Two Reuters/Ipsos polls on Friday and Monday show a 7 point drop in Biden's approval rating after the fall of Kabul.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-approval-drops-lowest-level-this-year-after-taliban-takeover-2021-08-17/

SonTodoGato
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Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
« Reply #134 on: August 18, 2021, 07:54:29 PM »
The problems with illegal and unlimited immigration is not a failure of civic nationalism; it's a failure to apply civic nationalism.

How would you go about enforcing this? How do you know which people have the same values? Do African americans or the children of Hispanics/Asians agree with those values? It's unfalsifiable; if they assimilate, they had compatible values. If they didn't, they weren't true Americans. Ultimately, you still have division based on identity and different demographic trends (crime, academic performance, employment, welfare, abortion, music, etc.) and voting patterns in spite of decades of attempts to bring them all together. If this were a marriage, they would be talking about a divorce.

If the majority of the country became mostly Hispanic and not Anglo-Saxon (which is happening) would the country be the same? how about African americans or Asians? I think deep down we all know that America is a bit more than just a few political institutions, and culture, lifestyle and politics would change if the people change. I can guarantee you none of them left their identity behind the moment they crossed the border, legally or illegally. As demographics change, the heroes of the past become racist villains and the only one who are acceptable are black heroes like Harriet Tubman or MLK, or even anti-whites (Malcolm X, or even Mandela comes to mind, not an American but still; only non-white racists are allowed). Tearing statues down is the natural result of demographic changes (and identity politics, which is bound to happen due to multiculturalism), because everyone up to the 90's was a "racist". The only solution is the disenfranchisement of whites and the replacement of white history to appease the new majorities which demand a national sentiment.