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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: Ratman_tf on August 16, 2021, 04:44:19 PM

Title: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 16, 2021, 04:44:19 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/08/16/world/16afghanistan-palace/16afghanistan-palace-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

The old thread seemed to have drifted to the topic of Biden, so I figured it was time for a new thread.

The impetus, of course, is the US withdrawl of troops, from Afghanistan, leaving behind millions in equipment, the Taliban swiftly moving to capture territory, and the terrified Afghan people left behind.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-weighs-address-nation-afghanistan-crumbles-n1276885
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: RPGPundit on August 17, 2021, 06:24:44 AM
It was never going to end any other way. Honestly, this isn't even Biden's fault. It was a forever war, or this happening. No matter when it happened, it was going to. The Neoconservative fantasy is responsible for this.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 07:06:26 AM
It was never going to end any other way. Honestly, this isn't even Biden's fault. It was a forever war, or this happening. No matter when it happened, it was going to. The Neoconservative fantasy is responsible for this.

   I agree, except for the fact that Biden did vote to invade.   Reality is Biden has never been against foreign adventures.  These were just his chickens coming home to roost.  I do not think there are any neoconservative fantasies (that spreading democracy from a bomb bay really works), I think there are things neocons say, all the while just making stacks of cash for a select few.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 08:22:29 AM
It was never going to end any other way. Honestly, this isn't even Biden's fault. It was a forever war, or this happening. No matter when it happened, it was going to. The Neoconservative fantasy is responsible for this.
Yes and no. There's a little nuance here.

If we had opted for a punitive campaign, a la Desert Storm, we'd have been over and done with long ago. But because (as you correctly note) the neocons get a big stiffy for 'nation building' and 'forever wars', well... we were still there after 20 years.

By comparison, the Allied occupation of Japan after World War 2 lasted seven years.

Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

And to no one's surprise, the Taliban gets pissed off. And when May 2 rolls around, they go on the warpath and start rolling up Afghan territory through military conflict or just subverting local commanders via bribery. Suddenly they're at the fucking gates of Kabul.

We should have had sufficient airlift to move everyone -- Americans, Afghanis allied with us, and equipment -- staged and ready. But we didn't. Because we were using it to ferry fucking illegal immigrants around the U.S.! What a BRILLIANT plan!

So it's a mad dash for the exit, abandoning a shit ton of military hardware and more than a few civilian Americans in Kabul. Way to fucking go.

But hey, no more mean tweets, right?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 09:02:17 AM
I'm sure this moved up China's plans to invade Taiwan by a few years.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 09:26:37 AM
I'm sure this moved up China's plans to invade Taiwan by a few years.
Yup.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231745.shtml

If I lived in Taiwan I'd be looking for an exit strategy, or figuring out how to welcome my future CCP overlords.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Trond on August 17, 2021, 09:41:25 AM
I don’t know too much about this but I have a question: US troops have stayed “forever” in Germany and elsewhere. Why couldn’t troops be withdrawn from less dangerous countries and stay in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 17, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Greetings!

Very interesting commentary by Tucker Carlson on Biden's Afghanistan debacle.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 17, 2021, 09:56:27 AM
Greetings!

Steve Hilton discusses the Afghanistan fiasco. Steve Hilton breaks Biden down in a blistering commentary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 10:33:06 AM
I don’t know too much about this but I have a question: US troops have stayed “forever” in Germany and elsewhere. Why couldn’t troops be withdrawn from less dangerous countries and stay in Afghanistan?

  Honestly, I am not a big fan of the military bases on foreign soil at all.  I am fine with a full withdrawal, could it have gone better?  Maybe, but it was always going to be bad, there NEVER should have been an occupation.  A quick wrath of god firestorm on parties responsible for a hand in 9/11 and leave IMO.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 11:28:31 AM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/08/16/world/16afghanistan-palace/16afghanistan-palace-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

Somehow, I like to imagine these guys nodding gravely and wisely while listening at this tune:

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 17, 2021, 11:33:43 AM
Honestly....I don't care if it was biden or whomever. I don't feel right using this as a 'OWN' against the dems. I feel thouroughly ashamed and terrible for the collaborators that will die for trying to help the USA.
I don't think Trumps plan would have been all that better to be honest. It would have broken down in a month instead of a week.

I don't feel great that we have been playing hot potato with this mess between administrations. I feel like...We really need to look inside and get our shit together before we do anything again on the world stage.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 11:41:47 AM
Honestly....I don't care if it was biden or whomever. I don't feel right using this as a 'OWN' against the dems. I feel thouroughly ashamed and terrible for the collaborators that will die for trying to help the USA.
I don't think Trumps plan would have been all that better to be honest. It would have broken down in a month instead of a week.

I don't feel great that we have been playing hot potato with this mess between administrations. I feel like...We really need to look inside and get our shit together before we do anything again on the world stage.
Well said. We rarely agree, but here we do.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 11:52:44 AM
Honestly....I don't care if it was biden or whomever. I don't feel right using this as a 'OWN' against the dems. I feel thouroughly ashamed and terrible for the collaborators that will die for trying to help the USA.
I don't think Trumps plan would have been all that better to be honest. It would have broken down in a month instead of a week.

I don't feel great that we have been playing hot potato with this mess between administrations. I feel like...We really need to look inside and get our shit together before we do anything again on the world stage.
*laughs in 'deplorable'*

Yeah, I don't think so. I've just spent years being called racist, deplorable, etc, etc for the high crime of not being down with the progtard narrative.

Don't expect me to lift a finger, except for the middle one.

Oh yeah. And we left thousands of actual Americans in Afghanistan, too, per the Pentagon Press Sec.
https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-spokesperson-john-kirby-says-there-are-thousands-americans-still-afghanistan-1620144

But then, this is what the left wanted, right?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on August 17, 2021, 11:54:22 AM
Honestly....I don't care if it was biden or whomever. I don't feel right using this as a 'OWN' against the dems. I feel thouroughly ashamed and terrible for the collaborators that will die for trying to help the USA.
I don't think Trumps plan would have been all that better to be honest. It would have broken down in a month instead of a week.

I don't feel great that we have been playing hot potato with this mess between administrations. I feel like...We really need to look inside and get our shit together before we do anything again on the world stage.

Well, the man could at least stop his vacation to look like he's in control.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 12:09:48 PM
Honestly....I don't care if it was biden or whomever. I don't feel right using this as a 'OWN' against the dems. I feel thouroughly ashamed and terrible for the collaborators that will die for trying to help the USA.
I don't think Trumps plan would have been all that better to be honest. It would have broken down in a month instead of a week.

I don't feel great that we have been playing hot potato with this mess between administrations. I feel like...We really need to look inside and get our shit together before we do anything again on the world stage.
*laughs in 'deplorable'*

Yeah, I don't think so. I've just spent years being called racist, deplorable, etc, etc for the high crime of not being down with the progtard narrative.

Don't expect me to lift a finger, except for the middle one.

Oh yeah. And we left thousands of actual Americans in Afghanistan, too, per the Pentagon Press Sec.
https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-spokesperson-john-kirby-says-there-are-thousands-americans-still-afghanistan-1620144

But then, this is what the left wanted, right?
I don't think this is what anyone really wanted, but there are certainly opportunists that want to rush to weaponize the outcome for their political narrative. Try not to be one of those while people are still in harms way, ok?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 12:15:00 PM
It was never going to end any other way. Honestly, this isn't even Biden's fault. It was a forever war, or this happening. No matter when it happened, it was going to. The Neoconservative fantasy is responsible for this.

I agree that Biden was the guy left without a chair when the music stopped. And I agree that no one can be singled out for a mess 20 years in the making. This is not a situation where you can point one finger.

How the pull out was handled, however, is appalling. The Italian Press Agency reported these exact words from Abdul Ghani Baradar, one of the Taliban head honchos: "We won an unexpected victory, and we won so fast and through such unexpected ways that now we all must show humility in front of Allah".

I mean... the Talibans were got flat footed by the way the US pulled out. :o How much deeper one wants to dig?

And yet Biden managed to dig even deeper. First he assured that the Afghan Army was the bestest ever seen this side of the II SS Division Das Reich, then he pointed his finger at them because "they folded".

What? YOU assured the World that it was a strong army. It was trained and armed by YOU. Someone, somewhere, wrote an evaluation about the Afghan Army that YOU accepted and proclaimed as truth. And now you point fingers? Where, in your career, Mr. Biden, you missed the memo "It's the Job of the Leader to Accept Responsibility"?

Same with "The Stability of the Afghan Government".

"No evacuation via helicopters like in Saigon" ---> Immediate evacuation via helicopters like in Saigon.

"We were not there to build a nation". So you spent trillions in landscaping I guess. But actually this declaration is so nonsensical that it borders the farcical by itself - no need to comment.

I never liked Trump and I don't like the current batch of Republicans (not their majority at least) but what just happened in Afghanistan is indefensible. Some images from this debacle are already forever burned in the collective conscious.

Even worse, I feel that both the US and the West should now take a breath and say "How we messed up so badly in two wars across 20 years"? And it should be a bipartisan soul searching. Instead, we will have a finger pointing storm mostly based on the last 20 days.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 17, 2021, 12:24:58 PM
*laughs in 'deplorable'*

I got called all those things as well. But Im still not being shot or put on a execution list.

People in Afghanistan are. I feel bad that through whatever  USA crap, they are dying for it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on August 17, 2021, 12:48:57 PM
As Pundit said this was never going to end well no matter who was in charge.

Desert Storm was legit at least. However, not finishing the job was stupid. But the Afghan invasion was a terrible decision (Bush was even advised not to go in as it would end up being a 'quagmire'). Twenty years later and it has achieved very little except stoking up more hatred of the west. I also think that American and British intervention in places like Syria, Libya, Iraq, etc. have proliferated Islam in Europe (given the refugees that spilled over into our countries).

If I was the Americans now, I'd definitely keep the troops out of these places (as they really don't want or like westerners) and spend that two trillion dollars on homeland security. Of course you've still got options for spec ops and drone sticks on strategic terrorist leaders or training camps.


Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 01:04:32 PM
CNN is reporting on the ground in Kabul that "they're chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time."

I'm having flashbacks to "fiery but mostly peaceful protests."
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 17, 2021, 01:14:51 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.


I don’t know too much about this but I have a question: US troops have stayed “forever” in Germany and elsewhere. Why couldn’t troops be withdrawn from less dangerous countries and stay in Afghanistan?

I think it's much more expensive to stay in Afghanistan because of the danger, as it was a low-level active war zone rather than peacetime deployment. We had roughly 10 to 20 service members killed per year over the last five years, plus many more wounded. Further, my impression was that the conflict was likely to re-escalate if we hadn't withdrawn.

Still, I'm tend to agree with the principle. It makes more sense to stay in Afghanistan where troops are needed than staying in Germany and other allied countries that are stable and have their own armed forces. We should never have made promises to nation-build in Afghanistan, but given that we did, we have some obligation to those Afghans who acted based on our promises of support.

Going back to original mistakes, our troops should be for defending ourselves and our allies, not pushing through political goals. We needed to act after 9/11, and I think after the initial push to punish those responsible (Al Qaeda), we should have worked more moderate Islamists in Afghanistan to form a coalition government rather than trying to completely reform the country.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 01:18:33 PM
*laughs in 'deplorable'*

I got called all those things as well. But Im still not being shot or put on a execution list.

People in Afghanistan are. I feel bad that through whatever  USA crap, they are dying for it.
https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-august-13-2021

Oh, I grant the Afghanis are fucked. They were always going to be fucked. If a huge majority of your 'official' military fucks off and doesn't even try to fight, you're done.

But don't call for any kind of 'bipartisan' 'oh we all share the blame' bullshit. Not interested.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
I'm sure this moved up China's plans to invade Taiwan by a few years.
Yup.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231745.shtml

If I lived in Taiwan I'd be looking for an exit strategy, or figuring out how to welcome my future CCP overlords.

China is being pretty blunt:

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231636.shtml
Quote from: CCP Propaganda in the guise of a newspaper editorial
The situation in Afghanistan suddenly saw a radical change after the country was abandoned by the US. And Washington just left despite the worsening situation in Kabul. Is this some kind of omen of Taiwan's future fate?

At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 01:23:06 PM
So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
There are an estimated 20,000 Afghans who helped the US during the occupation, and are still in Afghanistan.

Getting them out would have been a huge difference.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 01:24:20 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
Again, refer to my above post. The Afghanis were going to be fucked regardless of what happened.

But we spent twenty fucking years there. If they can't figure out that dealing with the Taliban was a bad deal in 20 years, then we can do nothing for them. It's polishing the turd. It's trying to 'save' a drug addict who hasn't hit his rock bottom yet.

My educated guess is that Trump would've pulled us out and left the keys. Taking with us any 'undesirables' (read: Afghani allies, interpreters, or women who didn't feel like putting on the burka again), as well as our equipment.

But this is clearly what you wanted, right? A confused mad dash for the doors, because our airlift capacity is being used to ferry illegals across the U.S. instead of being used to move ACTUAL allies and equipment that MY GOD DAMN TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR.

So FUCK your snotty little 'oh so it would've been different'. There's thousands of actual AMERICANS marooned there now because of this incompetent pack of retards.  Thanks so much for your vote. I hope you're proud of it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 01:42:11 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
Again, refer to my above post. The Afghanis were going to be fucked regardless of what happened.

But we spent twenty fucking years there. If they can't figure out that dealing with the Taliban was a bad deal in 20 years, then we can do nothing for them. It's polishing the turd. It's trying to 'save' a drug addict who hasn't hit his rock bottom yet.

My educated guess is that Trump would've pulled us out and left the keys. Taking with us any 'undesirables' (read: Afghani allies, interpreters, or women who didn't feel like putting on the burka again), as well as our equipment.

But this is clearly what you wanted, right? A confused mad dash for the doors, because our airlift capacity is being used to ferry illegals across the U.S. instead of being used to move ACTUAL allies and equipment that MY GOD DAMN TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR.

So FUCK your snotty little 'oh so it would've been different'. There's thousands of actual AMERICANS marooned there now because of this incompetent pack of retards.  Thanks so much for your vote. I hope you're proud of it.
Just keep sharing your delusions by lashing out at everybody that has stated they don't like what's happening just because you want to believe differently to support your narrative.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 02:17:50 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
Again, refer to my above post. The Afghanis were going to be fucked regardless of what happened.

But we spent twenty fucking years there. If they can't figure out that dealing with the Taliban was a bad deal in 20 years, then we can do nothing for them. It's polishing the turd. It's trying to 'save' a drug addict who hasn't hit his rock bottom yet.

My educated guess is that Trump would've pulled us out and left the keys. Taking with us any 'undesirables' (read: Afghani allies, interpreters, or women who didn't feel like putting on the burka again), as well as our equipment.

But this is clearly what you wanted, right? A confused mad dash for the doors, because our airlift capacity is being used to ferry illegals across the U.S. instead of being used to move ACTUAL allies and equipment that MY GOD DAMN TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR.

So FUCK your snotty little 'oh so it would've been different'. There's thousands of actual AMERICANS marooned there now because of this incompetent pack of retards.  Thanks so much for your vote. I hope you're proud of it.
Just keep sharing your delusions by lashing out at everybody that has stated they don't like what's happening just because you want to believe differently to support your narrative.
Someone got a little tingle from watching Afghanis fall off the plane, I see.

Not really surprising though. You probably deluded yourself into believing Sleepy Joe's rambling incoherent speech (before he raced back off to hide) was 'stunning and brave'.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 02:21:45 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
Again, refer to my above post. The Afghanis were going to be fucked regardless of what happened.

But we spent twenty fucking years there. If they can't figure out that dealing with the Taliban was a bad deal in 20 years, then we can do nothing for them. It's polishing the turd. It's trying to 'save' a drug addict who hasn't hit his rock bottom yet.

My educated guess is that Trump would've pulled us out and left the keys. Taking with us any 'undesirables' (read: Afghani allies, interpreters, or women who didn't feel like putting on the burka again), as well as our equipment.

But this is clearly what you wanted, right? A confused mad dash for the doors, because our airlift capacity is being used to ferry illegals across the U.S. instead of being used to move ACTUAL allies and equipment that MY GOD DAMN TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR.

So FUCK your snotty little 'oh so it would've been different'. There's thousands of actual AMERICANS marooned there now because of this incompetent pack of retards.  Thanks so much for your vote. I hope you're proud of it.
Just keep sharing your delusions by lashing out at everybody that has stated they don't like what's happening just because you want to believe differently to support your narrative.
Someone got a little tingle from watching Afghanis fall off the plane, I see.

Not really surprising though. You probably deluded yourself into believing Sleepy Joe's rambling incoherent speech (before he raced back off to hide) was 'stunning and brave'.
Look more of your nonsense where you erroneously suggest what others believe.  You really are a worthless piece of shit and bad at guessing too.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 17, 2021, 02:22:38 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 02:27:57 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop

   Spreading FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY from 30k feet up and from the barrel of a machine gun.   Because honestly, Americans are dumb shits who will go to war over damn near anything. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 02:36:07 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
Again, refer to my above post. The Afghanis were going to be fucked regardless of what happened.

But we spent twenty fucking years there. If they can't figure out that dealing with the Taliban was a bad deal in 20 years, then we can do nothing for them. It's polishing the turd. It's trying to 'save' a drug addict who hasn't hit his rock bottom yet.

My educated guess is that Trump would've pulled us out and left the keys. Taking with us any 'undesirables' (read: Afghani allies, interpreters, or women who didn't feel like putting on the burka again), as well as our equipment.

But this is clearly what you wanted, right? A confused mad dash for the doors, because our airlift capacity is being used to ferry illegals across the U.S. instead of being used to move ACTUAL allies and equipment that MY GOD DAMN TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR.

So FUCK your snotty little 'oh so it would've been different'. There's thousands of actual AMERICANS marooned there now because of this incompetent pack of retards.  Thanks so much for your vote. I hope you're proud of it.
Just keep sharing your delusions by lashing out at everybody that has stated they don't like what's happening just because you want to believe differently to support your narrative.
Someone got a little tingle from watching Afghanis fall off the plane, I see.

Not really surprising though. You probably deluded yourself into believing Sleepy Joe's rambling incoherent speech (before he raced back off to hide) was 'stunning and brave'.
Look more of your nonsense where you erroneously suggest what others believe.  You really are a worthless piece of shit and bad at guessing too.
Yawn. It hasn't dawned on you yet, has it? I find it pleasing to gain the hatred of the contemptible, like you.

So were you Ridin' with Biden? Are you regretting it now?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop

   People in general are dumb shits who will go to war over damn near anything.
FTFY. No argument, the plan went right out the window in Afghanistan assuming there ever was one. But as a species it's not like we've established a willingness to pause before reaching for the swords.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: KingCheops on August 17, 2021, 02:37:55 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area.

You so sure about that given Chinese missile capability?  The US Navy is projecting power across a big distance whereas the Chinese are firing from their mainland or their littoral waters.  There's been some interesting talk about small, maneuverable green water fleets in the SCS versus the big WW2 style blue water fleets.  I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable making that bet if I was Taiwanese.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 17, 2021, 02:39:07 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.

No one benefits from nuclear warfare. I think it's out of the table, save for being a psyop to intimidate others.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 02:41:30 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.

   Hey, there are never troops on the ground...till some asshat decides we need troops on the ground.  I also think the US Navy *could* create a one sided blood bath with China, however I think the chances of a US naval ship or plane firing on Chinese military forces is effectively zero.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 17, 2021, 02:46:36 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop

   Spreading FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY from 30k feet up and from the barrel of a machine gun.   Because honestly, Americans are dumb shits who will go to war over damn near anything.

It's not "Americans", It's the people who are running the country; politicians, moguls and others. I reckon most people don't even know what's going on in the Middle East, and they had to be convinced in order to pull these interventions off; WMD, babies in incubators and others...
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 02:50:50 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.

   Hey, there are never troops on the ground...till some asshat decides we need troops on the ground.  I also think the US Navy *could* create a one sided blood bath with China, however I think the chances of a US naval ship or plane firing on Chinese military forces is effectively zero.
Hunter-killer submarines would be my weapon of choice, though I admit I have no idea how sharp China's anti-sub warfare is.

But you start sinking their troop transports and they're not gonna invade a damn thing, except Davy Jones's locker.

But yeah, your final assessment is spot on at least in the short term.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop

   Spreading FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY from 30k feet up and from the barrel of a machine gun.   Because honestly, Americans are dumb shits who will go to war over damn near anything.

It's not "Americans", It's the people who are running the country; politicians, moguls and others. I reckon most people don't even know what's going on in the Middle East, and they had to be convinced in order to pull these interventions off; WMD, babies in incubators and others...

   Honestly, when the towers got hit, the rage was palpable.  I watched A LOT of people go out an enlist to go out and get their war on what was described to them as a terrible fountain of evil.   They never bothered to ask why so many Saudi's were on the planes, why they were on a TERRROR WATCH LIST in the country yet allowed to move freely and take piloting classes, there was a COMPLETE lack of questions IMO from the general public in 2001.   The press and the people at the top just made the decisions that made them money or earned them political capital with no regard to what it would cost the average American.  Americans were still pretty keen on buying bullshit from "leaders" at that time.  So yeah, it was Americans who acted like dumbshits.  But at least when Obama came around selling his bullshit about Assad and nerve gas they said, "no thanks". 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 02:54:20 PM
And just because I'm going for that Golden Asshole trophy.

https://twitter.com/elibremer/status/1427632616707088397

Take a good look, lads and lasses. Foreign policy success, right?

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 02:55:26 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.

   Hey, there are never troops on the ground...till some asshat decides we need troops on the ground.  I also think the US Navy *could* create a one sided blood bath with China, however I think the chances of a US naval ship or plane firing on Chinese military forces is effectively zero.

Either the US, for some reason, decide that Taiwan is not worth the effort (cue: North Korea paying attention), or they will fire. There are no other avenues of action.

At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area.

You so sure about that given Chinese missile capability?  The US Navy is projecting power across a big distance whereas the Chinese are firing from their mainland or their littoral waters.  There's been some interesting talk about small, maneuverable green water fleets in the SCS versus the big WW2 style blue water fleets.  I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable making that bet if I was Taiwanese.

The US Navy would have Taiwan as the fifth, unsinkable carrier, so, along with their aviation the US could even redeploy a number of Air Force squadrons on the island (which would become a support center overnight - Taiwanese train for this since forever, the way Israeli train against a surprise attack from their neighbours). All of this under a "dome" of AEGIS ships and Patriot batteries.

My best guess is that a modern war of this kind will be over in a matter of days, maybe even less. You can be sure that every time a Chinese SSN sails there is a Virginia-class US sub with a torpedo already aimed at her and someone with the finger on the red button. This is SOP for the area. Much has been said about these "faster-than-light carrier-sinking" missiles, but I'm still unconvinced. The best hope for China is to somehow achieve strategic surprise - and that would need someone really, really asleep on the bridge.

No, what worries me is the "stealthy" expansion currently underway in the South China Sea, with all these small islands and atolls being steadily converted into potential military bases by China. Every then and now someone worries about that, but not enough IMHO.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:00:24 PM
And just because I'm going for that Golden Asshole trophy.

https://twitter.com/elibremer/status/1427632616707088397

Take a good look, lads and lasses. Foreign policy success, right?

   I am in the camp that this is not Biden's "fault" as much as it is DC's fault.  Though Biden does shortsell his involvement with voting to go into afghanistan and the fact he was in the administration for 8 years where nothing was done to facilitate a withdrawal.  It was ALWAYS going to be a disaster on withdrawal.  I do not know if it would have been less with Trump.  Tearing the bandaid off hurts.  The afghani's were NEVER going to be able to hold off the Taliban, even if we were there for 100 years.  Call the Taliban what you like, but they are firm in their beliefs, the people support them over the government, and they are willing to die fighting for what they believe... Set against the "government" of afghanis, which seemed to be okay with raging corruption and banging 10 year old boys as well as selling or surrendering US armaments as fast as they could get them...well...

   You can train a chihuahua all you want to be an attack dog, but the first time it runs head long into a pitbull, its over.   The USA tried to make a chihuahua into a pitbull.  Waste of time, money, and human resources.  Literally making the earth a worse place to be.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:01:42 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.

   Hey, there are never troops on the ground...till some asshat decides we need troops on the ground.  I also think the US Navy *could* create a one sided blood bath with China, however I think the chances of a US naval ship or plane firing on Chinese military forces is effectively zero.

Either the US, for some reason, decide that Taiwan is not worth the effort (cue: North Korea paying attention), or they will fire. There are no other avenues of action.

At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area.

You so sure about that given Chinese missile capability?  The US Navy is projecting power across a big distance whereas the Chinese are firing from their mainland or their littoral waters.  There's been some interesting talk about small, maneuverable green water fleets in the SCS versus the big WW2 style blue water fleets.  I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable making that bet if I was Taiwanese.

The US Navy would have Taiwan as the fifth, unsinkable carrier, so, along with their aviation the US could even redeploy a number of Air Force squadrons on the island (which would become a support center overnight - Taiwanese train for this since forever, the way Israeli train against a surprise attack from their neighbours). All of this under a "dome" of AEGIS ships and Patriot batteries.

My best guess is that a modern war of this kind will be over in a matter of days, maybe even less. You can be sure that every time a Chinese SSN sails there is a Virginia-class US sub with a torpedo already aimed at her and someone with the finger on the red button. This is SOP for the area. Much has been said about these "faster-than-light carrier-sinking" missiles, but I'm still unconvinced. The best hope for China is to somehow achieve strategic surprise - and that would need someone really, really asleep on the bridge.

No, what worries me is the "stealthy" expansion currently underway in the South China Sea, with all these small islands and atolls being steadily converted into potential military bases by China. Every then and now someone worries about that, but not enough IMHO.

   Your tactical assessment is sound.  However it all comes with the assumption the USA is willing to shoot.  They are not.  The "leaders" are heavily compromised.  China takes it without a shot from the USA if they are willing to do it.  Well I am editing to add...I should say they can attack without a shot from the USA, Taiwan will prove a VERY stiff test for China as I think the hate runs pretty deep, and occupying an openly hostile population is pretty damned hard to do, and that is IF you can get a foothold on land.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 03:13:51 PM
And just because I'm going for that Golden Asshole trophy.

https://twitter.com/elibremer/status/1427632616707088397

Take a good look, lads and lasses. Foreign policy success, right?

   I am in the camp that this is not Biden's "fault" as much as it is DC's fault.  Though Biden does shortsell his involvement with voting to go into afghanistan and the fact he was in the administration for 8 years where nothing was done to facilitate a withdrawal.  It was ALWAYS going to be a disaster on withdrawal.  I do not know if it would have been less with Trump.  Tearing the bandaid off hurts.  The afghani's were NEVER going to be able to hold off the Taliban, even if we were there for 100 years.  Call the Taliban what you like, but they are firm in their beliefs, the people support them over the government, and they are willing to die fighting for what they believe... Set against the "government" of afghanis, which seemed to be okay with raging corruption and banging 10 year old boys as well as selling or surrendering US armaments as fast as they could get them...well...

   You can train a chihuahua all you want to be an attack dog, but the first time it runs head long into a pitbull, its over.   The USA tried to make a chihuahua into a pitbull.  Waste of time, money, and human resources.  Literally making the earth a worse place to be.
I need to dig out his actual voting record, assuming the Dems haven't sealed it up like Obama's school records. I keep seeing people saying 'Biden was totally against invading Afghanistan!'.

You're not wrong though. Twenty years, a trillion dollars, and the Afghani army folded like a wet paper bag.

But I seriously fuckin' doubt the departure would've been as shambolic under, well, anyone else. Hell, even Carter couldn't have fucked this one so badly.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 17, 2021, 03:17:28 PM
BTW, here's a nice ad for invisible college...

(https://files.catbox.moe/1txyws.PNG)

4444 days since the beginning of Desert Storm until the end of Iraqi Freedom, which ended 555 days after 9/11

(https://files.catbox.moe/xn0re2.jpg)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 03:17:47 PM
Now, Trump rolls into office, upsetting rice bowls left and right. He looks at Afghanistan and says, 'OK, enough is enough. Time to bring our boys home.' He makes a diplomatic overture to the Taliban, secures an exit date of May 1st, 2021, and informs the Afghani government that it's time they put their big boy pants on and stop fucking around.

Unfortunately, the PTB don't LIKE that, and Trump 'loses' the election. Biden rolls in, and because the derp state/proggy narrative is to NEVER EVER let Trump have a point in the win column, Biden's handlers opt to alter the deal. Except they're not Darth fuckin' Vader.

So if Trump was in charge, he would have handed the keys over to the Taliban three months sooner and in a more orderly fashion. I get how that is better than a disorderly withdrawal later, but I don't think that huge a difference as implied by the original post. The Taliban would still be in charge and millions of Afghans terrified.
Again, refer to my above post. The Afghanis were going to be fucked regardless of what happened.

But we spent twenty fucking years there. If they can't figure out that dealing with the Taliban was a bad deal in 20 years, then we can do nothing for them. It's polishing the turd. It's trying to 'save' a drug addict who hasn't hit his rock bottom yet.

My educated guess is that Trump would've pulled us out and left the keys. Taking with us any 'undesirables' (read: Afghani allies, interpreters, or women who didn't feel like putting on the burka again), as well as our equipment.

But this is clearly what you wanted, right? A confused mad dash for the doors, because our airlift capacity is being used to ferry illegals across the U.S. instead of being used to move ACTUAL allies and equipment that MY GOD DAMN TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR.

So FUCK your snotty little 'oh so it would've been different'. There's thousands of actual AMERICANS marooned there now because of this incompetent pack of retards.  Thanks so much for your vote. I hope you're proud of it.
Just keep sharing your delusions by lashing out at everybody that has stated they don't like what's happening just because you want to believe differently to support your narrative.
Someone got a little tingle from watching Afghanis fall off the plane, I see.

Not really surprising though. You probably deluded yourself into believing Sleepy Joe's rambling incoherent speech (before he raced back off to hide) was 'stunning and brave'.
Look more of your nonsense where you erroneously suggest what others believe.  You really are a worthless piece of shit and bad at guessing too.
Yawn. It hasn't dawned on you yet, has it? I find it pleasing to gain the hatred of the contemptible, like you.

So were you Ridin' with Biden? Are you regretting it now?
At least you're asking questions now instead of just presuming. And no, I'm not pro-Joe.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
But I seriously fuckin' doubt the departure would've been as shambolic under, well, anyone else. Hell, even Carter couldn't have fucked this one so badly.

I watched the "Tucker Carlson" and "Steve Hilton" videos. When their rant is basically indistinguishable from what the far-left (the honest ones) is saying, and, even more worryingly, they make sense, you just know that this fuck-up is for the ages.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 03:24:15 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop
The joke is actually your second point--what is Amwrica doing in Afghanistan.

As to the serious part of your post, far more Afghanis support wearing facial covers.  Apparently it doesn't interfere with their ability to carry "assault" weapons.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop
The joke is actually your second point--what is Amwrica doing in Afghanistan.

As to the serious part of your post, far more Afghanis support wearing facial covers.  Apparently it doesn't interfere with their ability to carry "assault" weapons.

  Well, its because the ones with face covers dont carry the guns.  But sure the ones who "support" wearing them, meaning making sure people wear them with the threat of violence if they do not, while of course they themselves do not have to wear them might be making a point you were not looking for.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 03:31:36 PM
But I seriously fuckin' doubt the departure would've been as shambolic under, well, anyone else. Hell, even Carter couldn't have fucked this one so badly.

I watched the "Tucker Carlson" and "Steve Hilton" videos. When their rant is basically indistinguishable from what the far-left (the honest ones) is saying, and, even more worryingly, they make sense, you just know that this fuck-up is for the ages.
The fun part has been watching people desperately try to spin this as anything other than a colossal clusterfuck. And they can't.

It's not JUST the panicked rout, and the Afghanis clinging to planes and falling off. It's the fact that the entire goddamn Bidenharris administration seemed to go on vacation and only returned when their phones wouldn't stop ringing.

(Someone suggested that Jen Psaki's vacation was due to a nervous breakdown. If so, I can't blame her.)

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 17, 2021, 03:36:24 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop
The joke is actually your second point--what is Amwrica doing in Afghanistan.

As to the serious part of your post, far more Afghanis support wearing facial covers.  Apparently it doesn't interfere with their ability to carry "assault" weapons.

  Well, its because the ones with face covers dont carry the guns.  But sure the ones who "support" wearing them, meaning making sure people wear them with the threat of violence if they do not, while of course they themselves do not have to wear them might be making a point you were not looking for.
It's like you've gone anti-conservative all of a sudden.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 03:44:41 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/08/16/world/16afghanistan-palace/16afghanistan-palace-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

That's a sweet gaming table. Their group is a little large tho. And they look like they have the worst end of the gamer-hygiene spectrum.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:50:10 PM
Surely the US won't have to do much work; only 3% of the population is fully vaxxed in Afghanistan. Covid must be ravaging the whole country; especially with the new variant.


Jokes aside, what is the formal explanation as to why America is in Afghanistan in the first place? I'm a bit out of the loop
The joke is actually your second point--what is Amwrica doing in Afghanistan.

As to the serious part of your post, far more Afghanis support wearing facial covers.  Apparently it doesn't interfere with their ability to carry "assault" weapons.

  Well, its because the ones with face covers dont carry the guns.  But sure the ones who "support" wearing them, meaning making sure people wear them with the threat of violence if they do not, while of course they themselves do not have to wear them might be making a point you were not looking for.
It's like you've gone anti-conservative all of a sudden.

  I have never been conservative.  maybe take your own advice about knowing what people think?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:50:46 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/08/16/world/16afghanistan-palace/16afghanistan-palace-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

That's a sweet gaming table. Their group is a little large tho. And they look like they have the worst end of the gamer-hygiene spectrum.

  I think not, dice will bounce off that thing like a bb off a steel barrel.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 03:51:23 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/08/16/world/16afghanistan-palace/16afghanistan-palace-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

That's a sweet gaming table. Their group is a little large tho. And they look like they have the worst end of the gamer-hygiene spectrum.

In their defense, they discovered that they had to rush there while they weren't still prepared for it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 03:53:21 PM
I think not, dice will bounce off that thing like a bb off a steel barrel.

You're one of the dice-spikers? Savage.

I use a dice-roller-octagon thing. Or my deep-ass Savage Worlds box lid. Would work great on that table. The only problem would be the screams of the people they're burning in the cages outside. That would get annoying fast.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:54:30 PM
I think not, dice will bounce off that thing like a bb off a steel barrel.

You're one of the dice-spikers? Savage.

I use a dice-roller-octagon thing. Or my deep-ass Savage Worlds box lid. Would work great on that table. The only problem would be the screams of the people they're burning in the cages outside. That would get annoying fast.

   That and the overwhelming smell of the dudes who have not yet had their monthly bath after many nights of goat - love.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 03:54:38 PM
In their defense, they discovered that they had to rush there while they weren't still prepared for it.

That guy GMing looks like a weak-ass 5e Module GM. Just oozing lack of confidence.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 03:55:00 PM
I think not, dice will bounce off that thing like a bb off a steel barrel.

You're one of the dice-spikers? Savage.

I use a dice-roller-octagon thing. Or my deep-ass Savage Worlds box lid. Would work great on that table. The only problem would be the screams of the people they're burning in the cages outside. That would get annoying fast.

   That and the overwhelming smell of the dudes who have not yet had their monthly bath after many nights of goat - love.

It's like Gen Con.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
In their defense, they discovered that they had to rush there while they weren't still prepared for it.

That guy GMing looks like a weak-ass 5e Module GM. Just oozing lack of confidence.

  He is just pissed he didnt get one of those sweet 'Murican rifles being handed over or dropped by the 'resistance' and is still stuck with that AK.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 03:56:52 PM
On the plus side Heroin will flood the markets and the prices will drop. Now the Chinese will have to compete with their shitty Fentanyl.

I dunno about you guys but my games are about to get buck-wild.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 03:58:33 PM
He is just pissed he didnt get one of those sweet 'Murican rifles being handed over or dropped by the 'resistance' and is still stuck with that AK.

AK's are fine weapons sir. I'd take one over an M16, pound for pound (and I like M16's).

Nah he's pissed he's stuck GMing D&D5e. I can see it in his face. That's the look of Disadvantage and weak ass Feats, and HP Bloat.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on August 17, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
At least the premier of Taiwan is pushing back:

https://www.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-conflict-taiwan/taiwan-would-not-collapse-like-afghanistan-premier-says-idUSL4N2PO0VG
Quote from: Premier Su Tseng-chang
We also tell foreign forces who want to invade and grab Taiwan - don’t be deluded.

The key point, here, is merely technical: China hasn't the amphibious capability to invade Taiwan. Even if they build it (and I guess that they are improving, but honestly dunno) the U.S. Navy is pretty capable to engage and sink the Chinese Navy in the Strait of Taiwan. There isn't much that you can do against four aircraft carriers, and the US Navy conducted exercises aimed to show that they can deploy exactly that in the area. The message was clear.

The remaining question is "What happens if the war turns nuclear?" Rather worryingly, China is pursuing a nuclear buildup. It appears that they aim to reach parity with the US and Russia.

But a war for Taiwan will be an air and naval one. No troops on the ground (some could be deployed along the coast as deterrence). Of course the US and their allies could still fuck-up big time and one day wake up after China is already in Taiwan. It that case there will be nothing to do.

China has been investing in missile spam, which is how you deal with aircraft carriers.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 03:59:53 PM
On the plus side Heroin will flood the markets and the prices will drop. Now the Chinese will have to compete with their shitty Fentanyl.

I dunno about you guys but my games are about to get buck-wild.
   I am not so sure about that.  Wasnt it the Taliban that burned the fields and killed drug runners and warlords who dealt in the poppies?   It's murky enough over there so I am not too sure, but I thought the USA allies were made up of the boy lovers and the drug dealers (we protected the poppies), but they all sort of merge together since the CIA and the USA basically trained and armed what later became the Taliban as well. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 04:05:18 PM
China's "supersonic missle" is vaporware. Just like their so-called J-20 5th Gen fighter, is basically a mutant Russian Su30 with Chinese underpowered engines that aren't worth a shit and knockoff parts that make it sub-standard.

They could try to mount an invasion of Taiwan... but they'd fail. They could possibly do bombing runs but I wouldn't count on it. Their pissant aircraft carrier doesn't carry enough ordinance (half of one of our aging Nimitz carriers) and they don't have enough support craft to protect it. Meanwhile Japan does have a navy with more than enough to take on China's hodgepodge shit-ass navy and "airforce" (quotes because most of their airforce is 50's-60's era MiGs).

And of course... you know there's a chance America might do something. With Biden in power? Who the fuck knows.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: tenbones on August 17, 2021, 04:06:50 PM
   I am not so sure about that.  Wasnt it the Taliban that burned the fields and killed drug runners and warlords who dealt in the poppies?   It's murky enough over there so I am not too sure, but I thought the USA allies were made up of the boy lovers and the drug dealers (we protected the poppies), but they all sort of merge together since the CIA and the USA basically trained and armed what later became the Taliban as well.

How am I supposed to run my super verisimilitude Opium Wars campaign without cheap opium?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on August 17, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
China's "supersonic missle" is vaporware. Just like their so-called J-20 5th Gen fighter, is basically a mutant Russian Su30 with Chinese underpowered engines that aren't worth a shit and knockoff parts that make it sub-standard.

They could try to mount an invasion of Taiwan... but they'd fail. They could possibly do bombing runs but I wouldn't count on it. Their pissant aircraft carrier doesn't carry enough ordinance (half of one of our aging Nimitz carriers) and they don't have enough support craft to protect it. Meanwhile Japan does have a navy with more than enough to take on China's hodgepodge shit-ass navy and "airforce" (quotes because most of their airforce is 50's-60's era MiGs).

And of course... you know there's a chance America might do something. With Biden in power? Who the fuck knows.

Missile spam, not super weapon. You don't need a supersonic missile, you just need enough to get past missile defense, which has never been seriously tested.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 04:18:23 PM
   I am not so sure about that.  Wasnt it the Taliban that burned the fields and killed drug runners and warlords who dealt in the poppies?   It's murky enough over there so I am not too sure, but I thought the USA allies were made up of the boy lovers and the drug dealers (we protected the poppies), but they all sort of merge together since the CIA and the USA basically trained and armed what later became the Taliban as well.

How am I supposed to run my super verisimilitude Opium Wars campaign without cheap opium?

  I guess cheap is relative?  I know on TV they always have stacks and stacks of drugs regardless of actual cost....
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 04:21:54 PM
The US Navy would have Taiwan as the fifth, unsinkable carrier, so, along with their aviation the US could even redeploy a number of Air Force squadrons on the island (which would become a support center overnight - Taiwanese train for this since forever, the way Israeli train against a surprise attack from their neighbours). All of this under a "dome" of AEGIS ships and Patriot batteries.

My best guess is that a modern war of this kind will be over in a matter of days, maybe even less. You can be sure that every time a Chinese SSN sails there is a Virginia-class US sub with a torpedo already aimed at her and someone with the finger on the red button. This is SOP for the area. Much has been said about these "faster-than-light carrier-sinking" missiles, but I'm still unconvinced. The best hope for China is to somehow achieve strategic surprise - and that would need someone really, really asleep on the bridge.
A comparison between Taiwan and Israel is false. In Israel, the military is well funded, well-respected, and everyone serves. In Taiwan, the military is treated poorly, underfunded, and far too few of the younger generation are participating. And the military they have is exhausted and stressed out, because of the constant need to respond to almost daily incursions by the Chinese air force. Taiwan's public seem to be expecting the US to do everything, which is a mistake. If China rolls over Taiwan in a quick and successful invasion, the US will not rescue them. Taiwan needs be able to be able to hold out. The US will probably intervene in that case.

No, what worries me is the "stealthy" expansion currently underway in the South China Sea, with all these small islands and atolls being steadily converted into potential military bases by China. Every then and now someone worries about that, but not enough IMHO.
China has 10,000 ships in the fleet they're using to invade the South China Sea. They're ostensibly civilian, but they're controlled by the military. China is both serious, and a serious threat. The US needs to be working more heavily with Australia and the Philippines to counter this.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 17, 2021, 04:24:55 PM
In their defense, they discovered that they had to rush there while they weren't still prepared for it.

That guy GMing looks like a weak-ass 5e Module GM. Just oozing lack of confidence.

  He is just pissed he didnt get one of those sweet 'Murican rifles being handed over or dropped by the 'resistance' and is still stuck with that AK.

Either that, or we are looking at actors. Kabul folded so fast that the Taliban dressed up some dudes and sent them to the Presidential Palace "for showing" while they tried to organise their real invasion ASAP.

Remember: when I posted how that Taliban honcho admitted that they were caught flat-footed and unprepared I was not joking.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 04:43:41 PM
The Taliban have held a press conference where they said they value women and are committed to their rights. Of course the kicker is those rights still have to fit under Sharia law, so there are all kinds of ways this could go wrong. But this is still a remarkable shift for the Taliban, especially when compared to 20 years, so there's at least some reason to hope it won't be as bad as first expected.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-evacuations-flights-restart-kabul-143952540.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejtxhfNheWw

This matches that interview from a couple days ago, when a reporter was called by a member of the Taliban's leadership in Doha, while she was on the air. One of the things that came out of that interview is there is a sharp divide between the frontline Taliban soldiers, who are often very conservative, hardline, and intolerant; and their leadership, who are media savvy and want to avoid becoming a pariah state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0XrkRxKxSM
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 17, 2021, 04:45:38 PM
He is just pissed he didnt get one of those sweet 'Murican rifles being handed over or dropped by the 'resistance' and is still stuck with that AK.

AK's are fine weapons sir. I'd take one over an M16, pound for pound (and I like M16's).

Nah he's pissed he's stuck GMing D&D5e. I can see it in his face. That's the look of Disadvantage and weak ass Feats, and HP Bloat.

Greetings!

Right on, brother! I love the M-16 and the AR. But geesus--I would never say "NO" to an AK-47. There are absolutely rock-solid reasons why the AK has been a global weapon choice for 60 years.

AK-47's are *sweet*.

The Taliban GM needs a good game mat to place on the table and he'd be good to go! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 17, 2021, 04:47:07 PM
The Taliban have put out a statement that they value women and are committed to their rights.
This is deeply retarded. You don't fight grueling guerilla warfare and make death lists for collaborators if you are a great believer in human rights. Like if it turns out they actually just wanted to bring sunshine and rainbows to Afganistan, then sure.
I just find that EXTREMLY unlikely.

And much more likely that their media personalities are blowing hot smoke to the western reporter class that they know will say whatever they want them to say because they hate their home countries more then they hate them.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
The Taliban have put out a statement that they value women and are committed to their rights.
This is deeply retarded. You don't fight grueling guerilla warfare and make death lists for collaborators if you are a great believer in human rights. Like if it turns out they actually just wanted to bring sunshine and rainbows to Afganistan, then sure.
I just find that EXTREMLY unlikely.

And much more likely that their media personalities are blowing hot smoke to the western reporter class that they know will say whatever they want them to say because they hate their home countries more then they hate them.
It's not about respect for human rights, it's about their desire to be accepted as a legitimate state.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 17, 2021, 04:55:51 PM
China's "supersonic missle" is vaporware. Just like their so-called J-20 5th Gen fighter, is basically a mutant Russian Su30 with Chinese underpowered engines that aren't worth a shit and knockoff parts that make it sub-standard.

They could try to mount an invasion of Taiwan... but they'd fail. They could possibly do bombing runs but I wouldn't count on it. Their pissant aircraft carrier doesn't carry enough ordinance (half of one of our aging Nimitz carriers) and they don't have enough support craft to protect it. Meanwhile Japan does have a navy with more than enough to take on China's hodgepodge shit-ass navy and "airforce" (quotes because most of their airforce is 50's-60's era MiGs).

And of course... you know there's a chance America might do something. With Biden in power? Who the fuck knows.

Greetings!

Yeah, man. Japan is always serious about everything. In everything they do, they are serious about getting things right. Even while small in numbers, from what I understand, through the years and various systems and programs, the Japanese always seek to embrace the best technology available to them, and then train like Romans. The Japanese Air Force, their amphibious troops, their helicopter forces, their airborne troops, all train constantly to a very high level of excellence. I would assume that the Japanese Navy also is like-minded, and can no doubt bite surprisingly hard.

Diplomatically, the Japanese have also been bold with the Chinese, telling the Chinese to go fuck themselves, and if the Chinese really think they can step on Japan, that China is welcome to fuck around and find out! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shasarak on August 17, 2021, 04:56:39 PM
I never liked Trump and I don't like the current batch of Republicans (not their majority at least) but what just happened in Afghanistan is indefensible. Some images from this debacle are already forever burned in the collective conscious.

It must have been bad when even the Italians are embarrassed by the speed of your retreat.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 05:23:30 PM
The Taliban have put out a statement that they value women and are committed to their rights.
This is deeply retarded. You don't fight grueling guerilla warfare and make death lists for collaborators if you are a great believer in human rights. Like if it turns out they actually just wanted to bring sunshine and rainbows to Afganistan, then sure.
I just find that EXTREMLY unlikely.

And much more likely that their media personalities are blowing hot smoke to the western reporter class that they know will say whatever they want them to say because they hate their home countries more then they hate them.
It's not about respect for human rights, it's about their desire to be accepted as a legitimate state.

  Or...just fucking lying and people just forgetting about it, because if human rights to recognized as a legitimate state is that big an issue there is a loooong list we can start scratching people off of.   One of the tenants of Islam allows the use of deception when outnumbered, and there is NO version of women's rights that is compatible with Sharia that is also fully compatible with the USA version of human rights.  That said, let the Taliban do them, and we do us. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 17, 2021, 05:44:36 PM
Greetings!

Indeed, the arrogant, smug, condescending Liberals just have to suck it down that people do not agree with them, and staunchly reject them, and the entire Liberal agenda and world view. In many places, they are also quite prepared to kill you. In many, many places around the world, Americans--especially Liberal Americans--must get used to the idea that in such foreign countries, THEY SET THE FUCKING RULES--NOT YOU. That's just reality and common sense.

But we know how delusional Liberals are, and how they have sobbing, hissy-fits when other people don't embrace their values and world view, and tell them to get fucked. Especially at the business-end of a rifle.

Oh well. That's the way it goes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 17, 2021, 05:47:30 PM
If I was the Americans now, I'd definitely keep the troops out of these places (as they really don't want or like westerners) and spend that two trillion dollars on homeland security. Of course you've still got options for spec ops and drone sticks on strategic terrorist leaders or training camps.

As I understand it, part of the reason for the bases in Afghanistan was to provide a forward base for drone strikes and spec ops against terrorist targets.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2021, 06:01:46 PM
The Taliban have put out a statement that they value women and are committed to their rights.
This is deeply retarded. You don't fight grueling guerilla warfare and make death lists for collaborators if you are a great believer in human rights. Like if it turns out they actually just wanted to bring sunshine and rainbows to Afganistan, then sure.
I just find that EXTREMLY unlikely.

And much more likely that their media personalities are blowing hot smoke to the western reporter class that they know will say whatever they want them to say because they hate their home countries more then they hate them.
It's not about respect for human rights, it's about their desire to be accepted as a legitimate state.

  Or...just fucking lying and people just forgetting about it, because if human rights to recognized as a legitimate state is that big an issue there is a loooong list we can start scratching people off of.   One of the tenants of Islam allows the use of deception when outnumbered, and there is NO version of women's rights that is compatible with Sharia that is also fully compatible with the USA version of human rights.  That said, let the Taliban do them, and we do us.
We'll have to see. I'm rather skeptical, myself. But it's a remarkable change in tone, so there's at least some hope.

And we're not talking full US human rights, here. That's absurd. But something better than c. 2000 Taliban repression would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 17, 2021, 06:03:38 PM
The Taliban have put out a statement that they value women and are committed to their rights.
This is deeply retarded. You don't fight grueling guerilla warfare and make death lists for collaborators if you are a great believer in human rights. Like if it turns out they actually just wanted to bring sunshine and rainbows to Afganistan, then sure.
I just find that EXTREMLY unlikely.

And much more likely that their media personalities are blowing hot smoke to the western reporter class that they know will say whatever they want them to say because they hate their home countries more then they hate them.



What's retarded is to think any of this has to do with human rights, women's liberation or any of that crap. It's just propaganda for the idiotic masses who think America has the obligation/right to police the world. No sane government/cabal would spend millions on ensuring people on the other side of the world get better standards of living or have access to liberal values. How anyone believes that America (or any other government for that matter) gives a crap about human rights, democracy or western values is beyond me. America had no issues with imposing dictators or work with them. Hell, they even fought side by side with the USSR.

My question still stands; What is the official explanation as to why they are there?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 17, 2021, 06:55:15 PM
It's not about respect for human rights, it's about their desire to be accepted as a legitimate state.
Their neihbors don't care about liberal rights. Only the west does whos ass they kicked so hard that its underpants is now in a bootmark print.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: KingCheops on August 17, 2021, 06:57:22 PM
For those interested in the naval situation and who are still on twitter I'd recommend checking out Man Integrated/The Huntsman.  He's one of the ones I missed when I removed myself from that shithole.  He has really good threads and white paper links on naval/logistical issues.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Zelen on August 17, 2021, 09:21:57 PM
It's astounding how the ruling class is able to pivot a tremendous loss -- Losing a 20 year war, with tens of thousands of casualties, trillions of dollars wasted, billions of dollars of military hardware lost to the enemy -- And turn it into an even bigger nightmare by immediately pivoting from their colossal failure to demanding that the US accept tens of thousands of Afghans into the US, without doing a damned thing to check if the people they are flying over at a tremendous cost of $500 million dollars are terrorists or not.

And after they fly them over here the culturally incompatible Afghan refugees overwhelmingly become wards of the state and a further drain on US society. None of the "experts" think it might be a better idea to relocate to any number of other regions like Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, or any other location that's closer and a better fit for the lifestyle and skills they have.

Sincerely wish we could airlift some useless politicians and NGO shitheads into Afghanistan right now.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 17, 2021, 10:03:43 PM
This was a planned failure. I'm just surprised it took this long.

The "refugee" crisis in Europe was in large part by meddling with countries to the point where this had to happen. The trouble this has caused in those countries is obvious.

Now- look at what's going to happen in this country because of Afghanistan-failure. Just like in Europe.

We are dealing with an elite that has always hated us and wants us DEAD. But this is done via proxy armies.


I also wonder how American veterans who suffered and fought must feel about it all. A curse on the ones responsible.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on August 17, 2021, 10:19:17 PM

The "refugee" crisis in Europe was in large part by meddling with countries to the point where this had to happen. The trouble this has caused in those countries is obvious.

I also wonder how American veterans who suffered and fought must feel about it all. A curse on the ones responsible.

Yeah this is it... America (and Britain to a lesser extent) have basically fucked the middle east for the last couple of decades. But Europe has to clean that mess up with having to take a ton of refugees. America and Britain should take most of them, as they are the ones doing all the interfering. Not that they will...

I hope the US and the UK have finally learned from that utter clusterfuck not to go into the middle-east again.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 17, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
America indirectly, yes. But that elite pulls the strings, and have for some time. Again, they fight by proxy, and that elite wants ALL of western society undermined and destroyed. As long as that elite group runs things this will happen again.

In case you haven't noticed we here in America "must" take in loads of "refugees." The ones from south of our borders. If you are not American look up "sanctuary city."
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on August 17, 2021, 10:33:08 PM
America indirectly, yes. But that elite pulls the strings, and have for some time. Again, they fight by proxy, and that elite wants ALL of western society undermined and destroyed. As long as that elite group runs things this will happen again.

In case you haven't noticed we here in America "must" take in loads of "refugees." The ones from south of our borders. If you are not American look up "sanctuary city."

Yeah, all the elites have the keys and the US military are just the pawns.

I don't know what Sanctuary City is.

Well, unfortunately you guys should also take the brunt for Syria, Afghanistan and Libya because you guys invaded and left those places in the shit. Not really Europe's problem, although we will end up paying a heavy price.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 17, 2021, 10:37:00 PM
Sanctuary cities are places illegal aliens can go and the immigration laws are not enforced.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on August 17, 2021, 10:39:02 PM
Sanctuary cities are places illegal aliens can go and the immigration laws are not enforced.

Hm... I wouldn't be a fan of that tbh. Mind you, pretty much everywhere is very soft on immigration these days.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 17, 2021, 10:40:34 PM
Except Israel. They have walls armed with mace cannons. But we have to have an open door policy, as do Europe, Canada, etc.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on August 17, 2021, 10:47:10 PM
Except Israel. They have walls armed with mace cannons. But we have to have an open door policy, as do Europe, Canada, etc.

Indeed... :(
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 10:47:29 PM
Sanctuary cities are places illegal aliens can go and the immigration laws are not enforced.

Hm... I wouldn't be a fan of that tbh. Mind you, pretty much everywhere is very soft on immigration these days.
Griswold is understating things. In a lot of cases, sanctuary cities have actively impeded INS/ICE from enforcing deportations upon criminals who are here illegally. Remember that next time some gormless twatwaffle wants to lecture about how 'interfering with the feds is illegal'.

Ironically, by not letting Trump stamp it out like he wanted to, the Dems left the door WIDE open for cities and counties to start declaring themselves sanctuaries from gun control laws. Oops.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 17, 2021, 11:04:08 PM
Funny thing is, minorities are buying guns like there's no tomorrow. Liberals are whining about such an event.

So, let's see- convince minorities white people in general and police in particular are out to murder them for no reason (BLM), then wonder why minorities want firepower to protect themselves.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jeff37923 on August 18, 2021, 12:30:15 AM
https://amplifiedbeing.com/2021/08/15/what-just-happened/?fbclid=IwAR3TFb52Joiho7_qdrFqrva15rM1khUSr2jVlKz_2e_hOiRqCKpy9dL08i8

Some insightful opinion from one of those Boots On The Ground.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2021, 02:38:38 AM
Mike Pence, an in editorial at the WSJ:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-biden-broke-our-deal-with-the-taliban-11629238764
Quote from: Mike Pence: Biden Broke Our Deal With the Taliban
The progress our administration made toward ending the war was possible because Taliban leaders understood that the consequences of violating the deal would be swift and severe. After our military took out Iranian terrorist Qasem Soleimani, and U.S. Special Forces killed the leader of ISIS, the Taliban had no doubt we would keep our promise.

But when Mr. Biden became president, he quickly announced that U.S. forces would remain in Afghanistan for an additional four months without a clear reason for doing so. There was no plan to transport the billions of dollars worth of American equipment recently captured by the Taliban, or evacuate the thousands of Americans now scrambling to escape Kabul, or facilitate the regional resettlement of the thousands of Afghan refugees who will now be seeking asylum in the U.S. with little or no vetting. Rather, it seems that the president simply didn’t want to appear to be abiding by the terms of a deal negotiated by his predecessor.

Once Mr. Biden broke the deal, the Taliban launched a major offensive against the Afghan government and seized Kabul. They knew there was no credible threat of force under this president.

The WSJ is also highly critical of how Biden abandoned the translators and other workers who collaborated with the US, and are likely to be exterminated. Most are still in the east of the country, far from Kabul and the fleeing Americans, who are cloistered at the airport.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-blinken-afghanistan-withdrawal-translators-special-immigrant-visas-siv-taliban-11629235840
Quote from: Adam O'Neal, The Translators Biden Left Behind
The U.S. military could venture out to rescue them, assuming they can be located. But that’s a mission President Biden is unlikely to approve given his pledge not to put one more American soldier at risk and what must be a White House fear of American hostages in Taliban hands. He’s already had to redeploy more troops to the country than were there before he decided to withdraw in April.

That leaves negotiating with the Taliban. White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan said Tuesday that the Taliban has agreed to allow “safe passage” for civilians, presumably Americans and foreign nationals. That’s good news, though we’d like to know what the U.S. agreed to in return. Formal recognition? Foreign aid?

If they're abandoned, who will ever want to work with the US in the future?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Prairie Dragon on August 18, 2021, 02:46:12 AM
I'm sure this moved up China's plans to invade Taiwan by a few years.

China will become the Taliban's biggest opium buyer.  China will use it to pacify their own country.  They tried to a biological weapon, but oops; it spread beyond their borders.  China will quietly go in a start taking Afghanistan's abundant natural resources.  Then, it will their turn to get caught up in a war they can't win.  Taiwan won't have to worry about China.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deathknight4044 on August 18, 2021, 03:03:33 AM

Quote
China will become the Taliban's biggest opium buyer. 

Probably

Quote
China will use it to pacify their own country. 

Why would they need to do that? The west is engaging in rutalistic suicide as China grows, expands their trade, colonizes Africa, and is on path of having a comfortable middle class in a nation that's like 90% Han Chinese.

Quote
They tried to a biological weapon, but oops; it spread beyond their borders. 

They managed to kneecap the world and come out relatively unscathed. I fail to see how China is the losers in this situation.

Quote
China will quietly go in a start taking Afghanistan's abundant natural resources.  Then, it will their turn to get caught up in a war they can't win.

Given that they aren't likely to have any regard for optics or play with kid gloves it seems doubtful.

Quote
Taiwan won't have to worry about China.

They'll take it in the coming years as the United States saber rattles. They're a serious country and are increasingly aware that the United States (and much of the west in general) is not.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jeff37923 on August 18, 2021, 04:36:50 AM

If they're abandoned, who will ever want to work with the US in the future?

Who in the world really wants to work with the US now under the current administration?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 18, 2021, 04:39:01 AM
https://amplifiedbeing.com/2021/08/15/what-just-happened/?fbclid=IwAR3TFb52Joiho7_qdrFqrva15rM1khUSr2jVlKz_2e_hOiRqCKpy9dL08i8

Some insightful opinion from one of those Boots On The Ground.

Is this insightful though? It's been a theme for... as long as I can remember... that bueracracy is ineffective and ephemeral, that "Empires go to Afghanistan to die", and that the boots on the ground get left holding the bag.
Maybe it's valuable to repeat it again, for people who haven't heard, but man, this was the argument around Afghanistan and the middle east in general long before 9/11. We didn't pay attention then, and we're unlikely to pay attention now.

Go to the middle east, fuck around for years, run away. Maybe things get better, usually they get worse. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2021, 05:21:39 AM
https://amplifiedbeing.com/2021/08/15/what-just-happened/?fbclid=IwAR3TFb52Joiho7_qdrFqrva15rM1khUSr2jVlKz_2e_hOiRqCKpy9dL08i8

Some insightful opinion from one of those Boots On The Ground.

Is this insightful though? It's been a theme for... as long as I can remember... that bueracracy is ineffective and ephemeral, that "Empires go to Afghanistan to die", and that the boots on the ground get left holding the bag.
Maybe it's valuable to repeat it again, for people who haven't heard, but man, this was the argument around Afghanistan and the middle east in general long before 9/11. We didn't pay attention then, and we're unlikely to pay attention now.

Go to the middle east, fuck around for years, run away. Maybe things get better, usually they get worse. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on August 18, 2021, 08:33:56 AM
https://amplifiedbeing.com/2021/08/15/what-just-happened/?fbclid=IwAR3TFb52Joiho7_qdrFqrva15rM1khUSr2jVlKz_2e_hOiRqCKpy9dL08i8

Some insightful opinion from one of those Boots On The Ground.

Is this insightful though? It's been a theme for... as long as I can remember... that bueracracy is ineffective and ephemeral, that "Empires go to Afghanistan to die", and that the boots on the ground get left holding the bag.
Maybe it's valuable to repeat it again, for people who haven't heard, but man, this was the argument around Afghanistan and the middle east in general long before 9/11. We didn't pay attention then, and we're unlikely to pay attention now.

Go to the middle east, fuck around for years, run away. Maybe things get better, usually they get worse. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.

This is generally true but Afghanistan was never part of the Ottoman empire. And regarding the Ottoman's, they kept control of unruly provinces by executing the leaders of said province every time shit started. They'd show up, arrest the local leaders, and kill them. Once they lost the ability to project power (ala Saudi Arabia) it started to fall apart.

I don't think such a strategy would have worked in Afghanistan, short of genocide.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 18, 2021, 09:12:38 AM
America indirectly, yes. But that elite pulls the strings, and have for some time. Again, they fight by proxy, and that elite wants ALL of western society undermined and destroyed. As long as that elite group runs things this will happen again.

In case you haven't noticed we here in America "must" take in loads of "refugees." The ones from south of our borders. If you are not American look up "sanctuary city."

Yeah, all the elites have the keys and the US military are just the pawns.

I don't know what Sanctuary City is.

Well, unfortunately you guys should also take the brunt for Syria, Afghanistan and Libya because you guys invaded and left those places in the shit. Not really Europe's problem, although we will end up paying a heavy price.

   I was not aware the USA invaded Syria.  I do think some weapons the USA sent to 'freedom fighters' ended up in radical hands fighting Assad, but at least when the DC dipshits tried to get an invasion rolling over lies about nerve gas the people in the USA said 'nope'.  Europe fucked themselves in agreeing to take any refugees.  USA did wreck Libya, but when I say USA I mean the military-industrial machine.  I have some news for you, they DO control the keys for the most part other than mass boots on ground.  They also suffer ZERO effects from taking in third world barbarians who can not learn to do jumping jacks and bang 10 year olds.  So they are going to try to sell the USA on taking massive numbers of refugees, DURING A FUCKING PANDEMIC THAT THEY KEEP SCREECHING ABOUT.   

    I hope european nations are smart enough this time to just say no.   I have no idea what happens here, I suspect a bunch of places that "lack diversity" get a nice infusion of afghanis.   Oh how the party is so about to start.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jeff37923 on August 18, 2021, 09:54:55 AM
https://amplifiedbeing.com/2021/08/15/what-just-happened/?fbclid=IwAR3TFb52Joiho7_qdrFqrva15rM1khUSr2jVlKz_2e_hOiRqCKpy9dL08i8

Some insightful opinion from one of those Boots On The Ground.

Is this insightful though? It's been a theme for... as long as I can remember... that bueracracy is ineffective and ephemeral, that "Empires go to Afghanistan to die", and that the boots on the ground get left holding the bag.
Maybe it's valuable to repeat it again, for people who haven't heard, but man, this was the argument around Afghanistan and the middle east in general long before 9/11. We didn't pay attention then, and we're unlikely to pay attention now.

Go to the middle east, fuck around for years, run away. Maybe things get better, usually they get worse. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.

There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it workas you say, but that was also apparently never tried either.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 18, 2021, 10:03:29 AM
https://amplifiedbeing.com/2021/08/15/what-just-happened/?fbclid=IwAR3TFb52Joiho7_qdrFqrva15rM1khUSr2jVlKz_2e_hOiRqCKpy9dL08i8

Some insightful opinion from one of those Boots On The Ground.

"We weren’t in Afghanistan 20 years. We were in Afghanistan one year, 20 distinct times."

How true  :-[
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2021, 10:18:53 AM
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.

This is generally true but Afghanistan was never part of the Ottoman empire. And regarding the Ottoman's, they kept control of unruly provinces by executing the leaders of said province every time shit started. They'd show up, arrest the local leaders, and kill them. Once they lost the ability to project power (ala Saudi Arabia) it started to fall apart.

I don't think such a strategy would have worked in Afghanistan, short of genocide.
I didn't say Afghanistan was part of the Ottoman Empire, but its collapse destabilized the whole region and was the seed that led to things like the rise of Islamic extremism, and more broadly even things like the World Wars and rise of the Soviet Union. It's a big part of the reason why the whole Middle East has become a quagmire, and its problems seem so intractable.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on August 18, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

I was not aware the USA invaded Syria.

I hope european nations are smart enough this time to just say no. .

Sorry slightly hyperbolic on my part there. What I mean is that as you say the US military got involved (with airstrikes, supplies and the like) in Syria and Libya. In order to attempt to topple both regimes by their own people. Unfortunately this had a terrible effect on Libya which is now spewing out refugees left, right and center. Same as Syria. Once the Russians got involved I knew the US and UK would be out of their quick smart. Nobody on the planet can fuck with either the Chinese or the Russians.

Sure, there might be some sabre rattling to save face, but those to nations are untouchable (unlike N. Korea). Not just because of their military might (we know the Americans are superior technically) but they have fuck all morals and christ knows what they'd be willing to do.

I have no real hope for Europe (one or two of the scandi countries are getting it). But the EU want to be seen 'doing the right thing' and let in as many Taliban, I mean Refugees in as possible. With the rise of Islam in Europe it's no wonder we are starting to see the rise of the far right. I think these refugees (who obviously need help) would be better placed in other middle-eastern countries and perhaps we could send economic aid or something. But huge migration is not going to solve things in the long term imo.




Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ocule on August 18, 2021, 11:30:17 AM
This falls on biden as much as it does on bush. I didn't serve in afghanistan and i've never seen war, i've known alot of people who have and I gotta say this felt like a slap in the face to all those who sacrificed in that shit hole, and spitting in the face of everyone we made promises to over there.

We needed to leave afghanistan, a coordinated withdrawal of troops, after failing miserably at nation building. Biden's weakness gave them what they needed (army intel reported that they could do this, and were ignored). Now everyone who helped us is being executed, and we evacuated in a hurry leaving stockpiles of weapons and vehicles for them. So fucking embarrassing an dangerous. If you cannot recover your war assets, you blow them up so they cannot be used against you in the future. Now they have shiny new weapons, armor, and aircraft.

Biden is a fucking embarrassment, the deep state opted to put a fucking senile old man and the wicked bitch of the west in the highest office of the land and now their hands are so far up their asses I can see the puppeteers fingers in their mouth when they speak.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 18, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
It's astounding how the ruling class is able to pivot a tremendous loss -- Losing a 20 year war, with tens of thousands of casualties, trillions of dollars wasted, billions of dollars of military hardware lost to the enemy -- And turn it into an even bigger nightmare by immediately pivoting from their colossal failure to demanding that the US accept tens of thousands of Afghans into the US, without doing a damned thing to check if the people they are flying over at a tremendous cost of $500 million dollars are terrorists or not.

And after they fly them over here the culturally incompatible Afghan refugees overwhelmingly become wards of the state and a further drain on US society. None of the "experts" think it might be a better idea to relocate to any number of other regions like Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, or any other location that's closer and a better fit for the lifestyle and skills they have.

Sincerely wish we could airlift some useless politicians and NGO shitheads into Afghanistan right now.

This will end up being another failure of the mindset that's pervading America and leading it into socialism; civic nationalism, globalism and "neo-cons" (which are actually all trostkyites who love the "new world order"; a code word used by Marx, H.G. Wells to mean international socialism, literally).

It's the irrational belief that "anyone can be an American", that problems are solved if we just throw money and social workers at it. Might as well replace all Americans with Bulgarians, Italians, Pygmies, Maoris, Inuits, Nordics, Asians or whatever people you come up with and the result will always be the same if you just give them a chance to assimilate (which some people never do). The idea that you can take an islamist and turn him into a Jeffersonian liberal who doesn't see race and adheres to secular humanist values of the 21st century, ready to march alongside people of other races so that gay couples can protect their weed crops with guns. The same ideology that states that the people who cross the border illegally are there to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and not to cash a welfare check or send money back to their country of origin, which a significant number of people do (not all of them, mind you).

And when they finally arrive, they become an easy prey for politicians who will play identity politics with them. Because none of them saw past identity; they're all hyphenated. Diversity is such a strength that it requires constant counseling and spending millions every day, and it's still not enough. Meanwhile, less diverse societies like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, etc. are poor countries with unsafe communities and weak economies that about to fall apart due to their lack of vibrant communities of color/lgbt/islam/etc.

It's been a failure since "Great society" and it will fail again. The accusation of "racism" is not allowing them as a society to see how much of a massive failure that is.

inb4 "racist racist"

This mindset is spreading to other places as well. "We're redefining what it means to be British", "Canada is a post-national country", "no such thing as Canadian values", that nordic airlines ad about how nothing is truly nordic, etc. It all leads to the abolishment of the nation-state, and globalism ensues.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 18, 2021, 12:45:21 PM
Diversity is such a strength that it requires constant counseling and spending millions every day, and it's still not enough. Meanwhile, less diverse societies like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, etc. are poor countries with unsafe communities and weak economies that about to fall apart due to their lack of vibrant communities of color/lgbt/islam/etc.

I'm afraid I've completely missed your point.

Denmark is one of the most LGBTQ-Friendly Study Abroad Destinations in the World (https://studyindenmark.dk/news/denmark-is-one-of-the-most-lgbtq-friendly-study-abroad-destinations-in-the-world) - In addition to consistently being rated as the happiest country in the world, Denmark takes second place as the most LGBTQ-friendly country on the planet.

And with 1 in 6 of the people in Denmark being immigrants or children of recent immigrants, it's not as diverse as the United States (the proverbial melting pot) but it's not insignificant. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 18, 2021, 12:46:21 PM
USA did wreck Libya, but when I say USA I mean the military-industrial machine.

Libya was a geostrategic mess. It was the French who opened the hostilities in 2011, with their Air Force attacking targets in Libya before the "Zero-Hour". This act was actually condemned by the Allies and caused some diplomatic friction.

Why the French did this?

Part of this mess is, of course, oil. Italy and Libya have a "preferred relationship" regarding oil through ENI - "Ente Nazionale Idrocarburi" (my father was a petrochemical engineer and closely followed the situation for years, even if he never worked in that area). France, for decades, had fits about this. When the "liberation of Libya!" started, they did everything and more to show that "They were the ones!" to the new leadership - no matter what it turned out to be - and re-negotiate oil agreements with them.

Well, it didn't really work. True, Italian imports of oil from Libya are hit by the current instability, but all France got was to expand some already existing oil facilities - as long as they worked together with ENI and Libya’s National Oil Corporation, which is a comical result ;D

It is France that is always messing with Libya. For once the US are not involved: after Benghazi (a terrorist attack that was denounced and prosecuted by the Libyan government) they pulled out. Meanwhile, one day France tries to build a new government, the next day they are denouncing the current one. But France's endgame doesn't change: oil. In this they are resembling the coyote.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 18, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
And with 1 in 6 of the people in Denmark being immigrants or children of recent immigrants, it's not as diverse as the United States (the proverbial melting pot) but it's not insignificant.

Id look into your data, but I know you argue in bad faith. If diversity made countries less happy then you would just discard the data and insist it be done anyway.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 18, 2021, 01:16:23 PM
Diversity is such a strength that it requires constant counseling and spending millions every day, and it's still not enough. Meanwhile, less diverse societies like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, etc. are poor countries with unsafe communities and weak economies that about to fall apart due to their lack of vibrant communities of color/lgbt/islam/etc.

I'm afraid I've completely missed your point.

Denmark is one of the most LGBTQ-Friendly Study Abroad Destinations in the World (https://studyindenmark.dk/news/denmark-is-one-of-the-most-lgbtq-friendly-study-abroad-destinations-in-the-world) - In addition to consistently being rated as the happiest country in the world, Denmark takes second place as the most LGBTQ-friendly country on the planet.

And with 1 in 6 of the people in Denmark being immigrants or children of recent immigrants, it's not as diverse as the United States (the proverbial melting pot) but it's not insignificant.

LGBT friendly does not necessarily mean diverse. It just means they pander to gays and you won't be harrassed in the streets (The latter is a positive trait in my view)

I couldn't find anything on 1/6 being immigrants or related to them. Either way, you're not seeing the full picture. Multiculturalism and pluralism was a cause for division, public spending and statism in America, as it is now in Germany, Sweden, France and other diversifying countries. Hell, even mine (another "nation of immigrants").

If diversity is such a strength, why aren't less diverse countries crumbling down? America wasn't nearly as diverse in the 1800s, yet that didn't stop them; it was a thriving country, with or without slavery.  Why does the US spend so much in diversity training, courses, senstivity, reparations, "fixing" inequalities, affirmative action, "no child left behind", diversifying neigbourhoods, etc.? What successes have they achieved? To this day, America still has riots, protests and general distrust (granted, instigated by left-wing elements). All of these things existed with or without modern democrats; it's what diversity does to societies in general, as it has happened throuhghout history. Same for Germany, France, Sweden, Japan, etc. they were doing fine without diversity, and now it's being introduced and people don't like it.

If you really believe Americans are united past race, go to any "diverse" district and have a conversation about politics with all of them. You'll find a staggering difference between Latinos, Blacks and Whites. Read surveys about the importance of race for each group and you'll find only whites think their ethnic identity is irrelevant (And I have my doubts about it given things like "white flight" or the fact that they're not moving to black neighbourhoods en masse)

Compare areas which are mostly white with areas which are mostly hispanic or black and you'll see they have their own distinct sub culture and even voting patterns. There's a reason why there are historically black colleges, church congregations, and even racial divisions in crime; gangs associated solely on common ancestry. Why are certain groups, mostly non-whites, overrepresented in crime? Either they are victims of racism or they are not part of a homogeneous group with shared values and thus similar outcomes. Can all Americans sit together and commemorate national heroes? Or will a large portion of them feel excluded?

All of this shows you that people don't see past race, not even in America. It's a waste of time, and the solution is to stop forcing diversity. No segregation, no discrimination or violence of any kind, simply stop forcing it. People will naturally choose to associate and they'll arrive at a peaceful coexistence.


I know what I wrote is disorganized but these are some ideas off the top of my head. It's not "nazi" or anything of that sort; it's a sociological reality which Americans have been taught to ignore.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 18, 2021, 02:16:01 PM
Regarding Afghan refugees:  The obvious parallel is the airlift and relocation of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees after the Vietnam War. I would expect that the results will be similar here. There will be some friction and problems, but in general they become contributing citizens. Last year, SHARK started the thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/) where he was very exuberant about Vietnamese-Americans.


Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.


Diversity is such a strength that it requires constant counseling and spending millions every day, and it's still not enough. Meanwhile, less diverse societies like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, etc. are poor countries with unsafe communities and weak economies that about to fall apart due to their lack of vibrant communities of color/lgbt/islam/etc.

And with 1 in 6 of the people in Denmark being immigrants or children of recent immigrants, it's not as diverse as the United States (the proverbial melting pot) but it's not insignificant.

Id look into your data, but I know you argue in bad faith. If diversity made countries less happy then you would just discard the data and insist it be done anyway.

So because you claim he ignores the data, you choose to ignore the data??? I think comparing countries is always tricky because there are so many differences. One is never comparing apples to apples. Still, I think deadDMWalking is largely accurate regarding Denmark. Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2021, 02:19:53 PM
Regarding Afghan refugees:  The obvious parallel is the airlift and relocation of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees after the Vietnam War. I would expect that the results will be similar here. There will be some friction and problems, but in general they become contributing citizens. Last year, SHARK started the thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/) where he was very exuberant about Vietnamese-Americans.
They still need to be vetted. Sky News Australia did a piece where they had a couple people documenting the employment history of people aiding their troops in Afghanistan, and how the government wasn't doing a thing about it and wasn't taking their calls. Given Biden's spectacular failure to prepare for anything, and very slow rate of VISAs being issued in the weeks before Kabul became an even worse Saigon, is there any reason to believe that all the people loaded onto the C-130s are being properly vetted, or that the Biden administration will do a thing for the tens of thousands left in the country?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on August 18, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.

This is generally true but Afghanistan was never part of the Ottoman empire. And regarding the Ottoman's, they kept control of unruly provinces by executing the leaders of said province every time shit started. They'd show up, arrest the local leaders, and kill them. Once they lost the ability to project power (ala Saudi Arabia) it started to fall apart.

I don't think such a strategy would have worked in Afghanistan, short of genocide.
I didn't say Afghanistan was part of the Ottoman Empire, but its collapse destabilized the whole region and was the seed that led to things like the rise of Islamic extremism, and more broadly even things like the World Wars and rise of the Soviet Union. It's a big part of the reason why the whole Middle East has become a quagmire, and its problems seem so intractable.

Ok. But what does that have to do with Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 18, 2021, 02:33:16 PM
So because you claim he ignores the data, you choose to ignore the data???

No. I meant debating data with a person that wouldn't care either way is a fools errand. They only bring up points that in theory matter to you but don't matter to them. Such as athiests bringing up christian talking points to christians when they find ANY of their beliefs to be a joke. I may disagree with you politically, but I find all your intentions honest, so debating data with you is a worthwhile endevor. deadDM isn't honest with his beliefs and intentions, and so it isn't with him.

And your right on comparisons. Japan has a toxic work culture and I don't know about spain. Also denmarks happiness ratio has fuck all to do with its immigrants and has remained stable for over a period of 40 years, while its immigration thing is only a recent occurence.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on August 18, 2021, 02:40:04 PM
Regarding Afghan refugees:  The obvious parallel is the airlift and relocation of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees after the Vietnam War. I would expect that the results will be similar here. There will be some friction and problems, but in general they become contributing citizens. Last year, SHARK started the thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/) where he was very exuberant about Vietnamese-Americans.


Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.


Diversity is such a strength that it requires constant counseling and spending millions every day, and it's still not enough. Meanwhile, less diverse societies like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, etc. are poor countries with unsafe communities and weak economies that about to fall apart due to their lack of vibrant communities of color/lgbt/islam/etc.

And with 1 in 6 of the people in Denmark being immigrants or children of recent immigrants, it's not as diverse as the United States (the proverbial melting pot) but it's not insignificant.

Id look into your data, but I know you argue in bad faith. If diversity made countries less happy then you would just discard the data and insist it be done anyway.

So because you claim he ignores the data, you choose to ignore the data??? I think comparing countries is always tricky because there are so many differences. One is never comparing apples to apples. Still, I think deadDMWalking is largely accurate regarding Denmark. Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.

There have been Afghan refugees for several decades now. Soviet's up to now. Show me a place where they're remotely as successful as the Vietnamese have been. Also, a foreign population being successful is meaningless; the president is just up and deciding to take them in. Where's the congressional debate? What law has been passed?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 18, 2021, 03:01:47 PM
Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.
https://www.etvbharat.com/english/national/bharat/thanks-to-us-taliban-has-an-air-force-now-11-military-bases/na20210816182849150

You make it sound like they got some poxy Army surplus.

Read 'em and weep. But hey, no more mean tweets.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deathknight4044 on August 18, 2021, 03:28:28 PM
Regarding Afghan refugees:  The obvious parallel is the airlift and relocation of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees after the Vietnam War. I would expect that the results will be similar here. There will be some friction and problems, but in general they become contributing citizens. Last year, SHARK started the thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/) where he was very exuberant about Vietnamese-Americans.


Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.


Diversity is such a strength that it requires constant counseling and spending millions every day, and it's still not enough. Meanwhile, less diverse societies like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, etc. are poor countries with unsafe communities and weak economies that about to fall apart due to their lack of vibrant communities of color/lgbt/islam/etc.

And with 1 in 6 of the people in Denmark being immigrants or children of recent immigrants, it's not as diverse as the United States (the proverbial melting pot) but it's not insignificant.

Id look into your data, but I know you argue in bad faith. If diversity made countries less happy then you would just discard the data and insist it be done anyway.

So because you claim he ignores the data, you choose to ignore the data??? I think comparing countries is always tricky because there are so many differences. One is never comparing apples to apples. Still, I think deadDMWalking is largely accurate regarding Denmark. Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.

The data:

Ethnic diversity causally decreases social cohesion: http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.jcv081.full

Homogeneous societies have less crime, less civil war, and more altruism: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10464-013-9608-0

More diverse neighborhoods have lower social cohesion: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2013/11/paradox-diverse-communities/7614/

Homogeneous military units have less desertion than diverse units: http://www.nber.org/papers/w8627

In America, more diverse cities have more segregation: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-most-diverse-cities-are-often-the-most-segregated/



Denmark also seems to want to send its refugees back

https://www.fastcompany.com/90630405/denmark-is-trying-to-send-its-syrian-refugees-back

Why exactly do you think that is?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 18, 2021, 03:56:40 PM
Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.

https://www.etvbharat.com/english/national/bharat/thanks-to-us-taliban-has-an-air-force-now-11-military-bases/na20210816182849150

You make it sound like they got some poxy Army surplus.

I don't see where you get that from what I wrote. That article seems to back up exactly what I said. The weapons in the Taliban hands are those given to the Afghan government forces over two decades of support. Yes, those arms are substantial - since over the twenty years, we have spent billions in training and arming the Afghan army.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have spent so much to arm them in the first place. But that's a long-term strategic problem, not something from this year.

In terms of how to handle the withdrawal (which Trump had agreed to), the dilemma is whether we should have tried to reclaim or destroy the weapons of the Afghan army when we withdrew. I maintain that if we took away our allies' weapons, it would have seemed like an even greater betrayal to them. Maybe we should have done it anyway, but it's not an easy choice.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2021, 04:02:33 PM
I think the criticism of the ever-changing leadership priorities among the US military leadership, and their incentive to score points for the short-term prestige of their units, was on point. But the whole part about "what we really should have done..." is bullshit. There's no indication a consistent long term strategy would have miraculously made it work. The Middle East is a quagmire. It's not a quagmire of the US's making; the roots are in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. But the US has definitely made it worse with the endless wars and interventions.

This is generally true but Afghanistan was never part of the Ottoman empire. And regarding the Ottoman's, they kept control of unruly provinces by executing the leaders of said province every time shit started. They'd show up, arrest the local leaders, and kill them. Once they lost the ability to project power (ala Saudi Arabia) it started to fall apart.

I don't think such a strategy would have worked in Afghanistan, short of genocide.
I didn't say Afghanistan was part of the Ottoman Empire, but its collapse destabilized the whole region and was the seed that led to things like the rise of Islamic extremism, and more broadly even things like the World Wars and rise of the Soviet Union. It's a big part of the reason why the whole Middle East has become a quagmire, and its problems seem so intractable.

Ok. But what does that have to do with Afghanistan?
It's one of the roots of the quagmire which has enmeshed the region, including Afghanistan. I said that in my first post.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 18, 2021, 04:41:19 PM
Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.

Japan has a lower suicide rate than other countries; even lower than the US. And I'm sure the reason why Spain's economy went through a crisis is due to its lack of young and vibrant Somali refugees and not labor regulations...

Why would diversity strangthen any society? How does it work, exactly? What is the perfect diversity ratio? It doesn't make any sense. Europe does not benefit from muslim immigration, USA does not benefit from them either.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 18, 2021, 04:55:44 PM
Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.

https://www.etvbharat.com/english/national/bharat/thanks-to-us-taliban-has-an-air-force-now-11-military-bases/na20210816182849150

You make it sound like they got some poxy Army surplus.

I don't see where you get that from what I wrote. That article seems to back up exactly what I said. The weapons in the Taliban hands are those given to the Afghan government forces over two decades of support. Yes, those arms are substantial - since over the twenty years, we have spent billions in training and arming the Afghan army.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have spent so much to arm them in the first place. But that's a long-term strategic problem, not something from this year.

In terms of how to handle the withdrawal (which Trump had agreed to), the dilemma is whether we should have tried to reclaim or destroy the weapons of the Afghan army when we withdrew. I maintain that if we took away our allies' weapons, it would have seemed like an even greater betrayal to them. Maybe we should have done it anyway, but it's not an easy choice.
Do you know where Bagram AFB is?

Do you know how we 'turned it over' to the Afghani army?

Maybe you should look it up.

And then you can explain why Biden did this: https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/bidens-state-dept-halted-trump-era-crisis-response-plan/

And then you can wonder why you hitched your wagon to a drooling hair sniffer and his retarded puppet masters.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 18, 2021, 04:59:52 PM
The people behind all of this are going to learn the hard way- once again- that you do not control chaos, it controls YOU.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shasarak on August 18, 2021, 05:27:40 PM
If they're abandoned, who will ever want to work with the US in the future?

You would have to be born yesterday not to realise that this [American evacuation] was coming.

There was even an extra 3 months on top of what Trump was going to give to prepare.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 18, 2021, 05:34:15 PM
Looking at SonTodoGato's other countries, it looks very mixed to me. Spain has a terrible economy, Japan has a strong economy but high suicide, etc.

Japan has a lower suicide rate than other countries; even lower than the US. And I'm sure the reason why Spain's economy went through a crisis is due to its lack of young and vibrant Somali refugees and not labor regulations...

Why would diversity strangthen any society? How does it work, exactly? What is the perfect diversity ratio? It doesn't make any sense. Europe does not benefit from muslim immigration, USA does not benefit from them either.

Interesting. Ten years ago, Japan's suicide rate was much higher - but it seems to have dropped precipitously since 2010, while the U.S. rate has continued a steady rise since 2000. From 1960 to 2010, the Japanese suicide rate has been at least 50% higher than the U.S. rate. cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan   So you're correct for 2020, but given the mixed data, I don't think it shows that much about the broader point. (Also, on a personal note, I'm depressed to see that South Korea's suicide rate has risen even higher while Japan's has been dropping. South Korea is another non-diverse society.)

As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deathknight4044 on August 18, 2021, 05:52:19 PM
Quote
As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.

Yet the data you were asserting is so important refutes this idea.



Quote
I'm depressed to see that South Korea's suicide rate has risen even higher while Japan's has been dropping. South Korea is another non-diverse society.)

Meanwhile Seoul looks distinctly Korean, clean, low crime, and high trust while Paris looks like this:
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 18, 2021, 05:57:38 PM
Linking lack of diversity to suicide is idiotic. Im sure making a toxic job market even more competitive is exactly what South Korea needs.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deathknight4044 on August 18, 2021, 06:06:09 PM
Linking lack of diversity to suicide is idiotic. Im sure making a toxic job market even more competitive is exactly what South Korea needs.

Interesting study discussing mental illness and diversity: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/201/4/282.full


Quote
For every ten percentage point reduction in own-group density, the relative odds of reporting psychotic experiences increased 1.07 times (95% CI 1.01–1.14, P = 0.03 (trend)) for the total minority ethnic sample. In general, people living in areas of lower own-group density experienced greater social adversity that was in turn associated with reporting psychotic experiences.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Jam The MF on August 18, 2021, 06:16:27 PM
Biden.  A good name for a laxative.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 18, 2021, 06:50:26 PM
As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.

Diversity only applies to white countries. I'm not hinting at any conspiracy here; I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of thinking white societies benefit from diversity while third-world countries do not need mass European migration; China doesn't need them, South Africa wouldn't benefit from Nordic migration, the Natives didn't benefit from Columbus, Israel doesn't need christians, Turkey doesn't need jews, etc.; it's just Europe and the US who can't live without their daily dose of illegals. This shows you the racist mindset behind all wokeism; minorities are treated as invalid beings who need constant praise; they're compensating because deep down they see them as lesser beings worthy of pity and paternalistic sympathy. In the process, they destroy societies and their favors will not be reciprocated; once they become a minority no one will give a fuck about them; the only group that does care about minorities is white people; the rest sleep just fine without any sort of collective guilt for slavery (not that they should, though).

It's a narrative. If it were such a strength, people would ask for more and more diversity yet the opposite happens; it is the governments and the media that have to convince people 24/7 that diversity is a benefit, and the people almost everywhere have a kneejerk reaction against immigration, no matter the place. And the civic nationalist, civil-rights mythology is keeping people blind to this blatant and readily-apparent fact. They have to think that people who move into their country are there to play by the rules and share the values they take for granted and not just because it gives them better opportunities (and welfare in some cases). They don't carry along with themselves the constitutionalist, republican, individualist, post-enlightenment mindset which is peculiar to Western Europe.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: RPGPundit on August 18, 2021, 07:31:32 PM
The problems with illegal and unlimited immigration is not a failure of civic nationalism; it's a failure to apply civic nationalism.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2021, 07:45:29 PM
Two Reuters/Ipsos polls on Friday and Monday show a 7 point drop in Biden's approval rating after the fall of Kabul.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-approval-drops-lowest-level-this-year-after-taliban-takeover-2021-08-17/
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 18, 2021, 07:54:29 PM
The problems with illegal and unlimited immigration is not a failure of civic nationalism; it's a failure to apply civic nationalism.

How would you go about enforcing this? How do you know which people have the same values? Do African americans or the children of Hispanics/Asians agree with those values? It's unfalsifiable; if they assimilate, they had compatible values. If they didn't, they weren't true Americans. Ultimately, you still have division based on identity and different demographic trends (crime, academic performance, employment, welfare, abortion, music, etc.) and voting patterns in spite of decades of attempts to bring them all together. If this were a marriage, they would be talking about a divorce.

If the majority of the country became mostly Hispanic and not Anglo-Saxon (which is happening) would the country be the same? how about African americans or Asians? I think deep down we all know that America is a bit more than just a few political institutions, and culture, lifestyle and politics would change if the people change. I can guarantee you none of them left their identity behind the moment they crossed the border, legally or illegally. As demographics change, the heroes of the past become racist villains and the only one who are acceptable are black heroes like Harriet Tubman or MLK, or even anti-whites (Malcolm X, or even Mandela comes to mind, not an American but still; only non-white racists are allowed). Tearing statues down is the natural result of demographic changes (and identity politics, which is bound to happen due to multiculturalism), because everyone up to the 90's was a "racist". The only solution is the disenfranchisement of whites and the replacement of white history to appease the new majorities which demand a national sentiment.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 18, 2021, 08:01:34 PM
I think any comparisons between countries is looking far more at other conditions rather than ethnic diversity. I am generally skeptical of social science conclusions, especially when they're looking at something as broad and nebulous as diversity - and the breadth of possible outcomes of whether something is overall bad or good for society.


As far as diversity strengthening a society -- I'm not saying that it always does or always doesn't. It depends on the case. I think it has the potential to strengthen for similar reasons for why trade is good for an economy. By having internal populations with differences, those internal populations can exchange and benefit from their differing strengths and skills.

Yet the data you were asserting is so important refutes this idea.

I don't see any evidence that it does. From what I can tell of the research, broadly, greater ethnic diversity has a relationship with greater distrust in one's neighbors and with certain forms of crime. But that isn't the whole of what makes a society better or worse. There are a ton of other social values. For example, a summary article on social trust measures and ethnic diversity concluded:

Quote
1. On average, social trust is lower in more ethnically diverse contexts. However, the rather modest size of the difference implies that apocalyptic claims regarding the severe threat of ethnic diversity for social trust in contemporary societies are exaggerated.
2. The negative relationship between ethnic diversity and social trust applies for all types of trust, but there is substantial variation in strength between types. The negative relationship is strongest for trust in neighbors, intermediate for in-group trust and generalized social trust, and weakest (and statistically insignificant) for out-group trust. Ethnic diversity matters more for trust in people in one’s immediate residential setting, but the effect also extends beyond this setting to trust in other people in general.
Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-polisci-052918-020708

In simpler terms, I'm quite familiar with the low-diversity society of South Korea, and while I love my relatives there, I don't find the overall society generally better.


I'm depressed to see that South Korea's suicide rate has risen even higher while Japan's has been dropping. South Korea is another non-diverse society.)

Meanwhile Seoul looks distinctly Korean, clean, low crime, and high trust while Paris looks like this:

I've been to both Seoul and Paris many times and have friends and relatives who live in both. In terms of overall life and happiness, there's a ton of differences, but no clear choice from what I see. France has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100K which is higher than South Korea's of 0.6 per 100K, but they're both quite low compared to the rest of the world. Meanwhile, Franch has a suicide rate of 13 per 100K compared to South Korea's suicide rate of 26 per 100K, which is one of the highest in the world.

I'm not claiming that any of these are inherent from ethnic diversity, but that's my point. Comparing countries over ethnic diversity doesn't show a whole lot.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 18, 2021, 08:31:16 PM
  Diversity propaganda aside attempting to use the word 'immigrants' to make Denmark sound 'diverse' what we should be concerned about is where the former drug dealers and pedos stuffed into the thousands of refugees are going to end up.  I also suspect a jihadi or 1000 will end up somewhere they decide to make some mayhem.   Afghanistan was ALWAYS A COMPLETE FUCKING DISASTER.  It should have been a rain of hell on wherever we thought any masterminds had a hand in 9/11 were and roll on to pakistan, tell them we are coming in to get Osama and have been done with it.

   The USA is an empire in decline, SERIOUS decline.  My concern now, is an empire in decline, facing a recession/depression often tries to find a massive war to get involved in to 'fix' it.  The more I think over China, the more I start to wonder if we are headed down a path of no return as a nation.   Ah well.  It was a good run.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 18, 2021, 08:33:59 PM
Regarding military supplies:  My understanding is that the U.S. weapons in Taliban hands come from weapons that we supplied to the Afghan government forces over 20 years. That seems like a dilemma - should we have taken back weapons given to the Afghan government forces? That makes sense in hindsight, but especially if we had pulled out back in May, it would have seemed like even more of a betrayal of the Afghans who had supported us.

https://www.etvbharat.com/english/national/bharat/thanks-to-us-taliban-has-an-air-force-now-11-military-bases/na20210816182849150

You make it sound like they got some poxy Army surplus.

I don't see where you get that from what I wrote. That article seems to back up exactly what I said. The weapons in the Taliban hands are those given to the Afghan government forces over two decades of support. Yes, those arms are substantial - since over the twenty years, we have spent billions in training and arming the Afghan army.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have spent so much to arm them in the first place. But that's a long-term strategic problem, not something from this year.

In terms of how to handle the withdrawal (which Trump had agreed to), the dilemma is whether we should have tried to reclaim or destroy the weapons of the Afghan army when we withdrew. I maintain that if we took away our allies' weapons, it would have seemed like an even greater betrayal to them. Maybe we should have done it anyway, but it's not an easy choice.

The argument I have heard is that the Afghanistan forces were integrated with American air support, and the sudden withdrawl of that support is a big part of how this turned into a rout, where the gear and assets were simply left behind instead of collected or turned over to the existing Afghanistan forces, allowing the Taliban to simply saunter in and pick it all up.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/afghan-president-surfaces-united-arab-142839211.html

The sticking point for me is not whether we should have gotten out, but that it was done in such a bone-headed way, and possibly as a petulant dig on Trump's original withdrawl plan, which Biden tossed out the window.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 19, 2021, 02:27:27 AM
Meanwhile Seoul looks distinctly Korean, clean, low crime, and high trust while Paris looks like this:

As someone who, before Covid, worked in Paris for years and has as his hobby walking around, I can say that those pictures look suspiciously like cherry picking - and I was someone strolling less than a kilometer from Charlie Hebdo when they were hit by the terrorists.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 09:42:21 AM
  I made a comment about monocultures being stronger than diverse culture (on another thread)...I think the Taliban is pretty much proving that one out.  I think China will also prove it out over the next 10 years.  This is not to say I prefer a monoculture, but anyone who thinks having people on one team who argue and fight with one another is going to outperform a team where the members work together and have the same goals/worldview is simply not being objective.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 19, 2021, 11:03:12 AM
  I made a comment about monocultures being stronger than diverse culture (on another thread)...I think the Taliban is pretty much proving that one out.  I think China will also prove it out over the next 10 years.  This is not to say I prefer a monoculture, but anyone who thinks having people on one team who argue and fight with one another is going to outperform a team where the members work together and have the same goals/worldview is simply not being objective.

I'd say this is basically 100% wrong.  A competitive-cooperative culture outperforms a monoculture just about every time.  For example, the rise of Western Europe to a colonial power was tied with competition between European powers within a generally cooperative framework.  The United States with a federated system also allows 50 versions of the same goal - ideally the best methods propagate and become universal. 

I don't know that I would ever consider a period of US History to reflect a 'monoculture'.  I know that I would not consider any other nation since 1830 to have 'outperformed' the United States in a meaningful way. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: KingCheops on August 19, 2021, 11:35:56 AM
Meanwhile Seoul looks distinctly Korean, clean, low crime, and high trust while Paris looks like this:

As someone who, before Covid, worked in Paris for years and has as his hobby walking around, I can say that those pictures look suspiciously like cherry picking - and I was someone strolling less than a kilometer from Charlie Hebdo when they were hit by the terrorists.

It also ignores the fact that that's kind of a French (or at least Parisian) thing to do.  "They're rioting in Paris again."  "Oh is it Tuesday already?"
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 19, 2021, 11:39:11 AM
  I made a comment about monocultures being stronger than diverse culture (on another thread)...I think the Taliban is pretty much proving that one out.  I think China will also prove it out over the next 10 years.  This is not to say I prefer a monoculture, but anyone who thinks having people on one team who argue and fight with one another is going to outperform a team where the members work together and have the same goals/worldview is simply not being objective.

The Taliban and the CCP are totalitarian governments that don't permit dissent, but their societies are not monocultures like Japan or South Korea. Particularly for Afghanistan, it's quite the opposite. Afghanistan has always been a diverse crossroads in between major powers, with different languages spoken, different traditions, and so forth between the Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and others. It's trying to unite those different cultures that has been a challenge for colonial governments.

As for totalitarian governments being stronger - I think that is short-sighted. There is an tactical advantage to not allowing dissent - it permits more swift and decisive actions. However, I think in the long-term, totalitarian governments have proven less stable than democracies. Totalitarian regimes like the Nazis, the Soviets, and many others have come and gone, with governments frequently falling apart within a generation.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 19, 2021, 11:42:29 AM
  I made a comment about monocultures being stronger than diverse culture (on another thread)...I think the Taliban is pretty much proving that one out.  I think China will also prove it out over the next 10 years.  This is not to say I prefer a monoculture, but anyone who thinks having people on one team who argue and fight with one another is going to outperform a team where the members work together and have the same goals/worldview is simply not being objective.

I'd say this is basically 100% wrong.  A competitive-cooperative culture outperforms a monoculture just about every time.  For example, the rise of Western Europe to a colonial power was tied with competition between European powers within a generally cooperative framework.  The United States with a federated system also allows 50 versions of the same goal - ideally the best methods propagate and become universal. 

I don't know that I would ever consider a period of US History to reflect a 'monoculture'.  I know that I would not consider any other nation since 1830 to have 'outperformed' the United States in a meaningful way.
Here's your problem: you don't get 'competitive-cooperative culture' unless you've got some sort of shared cultural foundation to work from.

Otherwise, you get straight up competing cultures that are on a collision course.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deathknight4044 on August 19, 2021, 12:07:40 PM
I
Quote
don't see any evidence that it does.
Then you followed up with

Quote
From what I can tell of the research, broadly, greater ethnic diversity has a relationship with greater distrust in one's neighbors and with certain forms of crime. But that isn't the whole of what makes a society better or worse. There are a ton of other social values.


That sounds like a lot of mental gymnastics. Higher crime rates and lower trust and public participation are objectively bad things for a nation's cohesion and quality of life.

Quote
In simpler terms, I'm quite familiar with the low-diversity society of South Korea, and while I love my relatives there, I don't find the overall society generally better.

The greatest places to live in the world are either Korea, Japan, or numerous White western democracies. Regardless of your preference for culture, the problems in White western democracies that mass demographic change is producing is reliably the same. You might not find South Korea a generally better society, but they don't have grooming gangs and their problems aren't derived from being a homogeneous nation state.


Quote
France has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100K which is higher than South Korea's of 0.6 per 100K, but they're both quite low compared to the rest of the world

When comparing France to places like South Africa and Brazil that may be true.The reality is:

https://rmx.news/article/nearly-half-of-paris-ghetto-criminals-have-a-migrant-background/

Quote
I'm not claiming that any of these are inherent from ethnic diversity, but that's my point. Comparing countries over ethnic diversity doesn't show a whole lot.

The data shows that it does however

• Ethnic diversity causally decreases social cohesion: http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.jcv081.full

Quote
As someone who, before Covid, worked in Paris for years and has as his hobby walking around, I can say that those pictures look suspiciously like cherry picking - and I was someone strolling less than a kilometer from Charlie Hebdo when they were hit by the terrorists."

France didn't look like this on the year 2000.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/paris-suburb-home-to-300000-illegal-immigrants-report-says

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-paris/french-police-clear-paris-migrant-camp-idUSKCN1PN19R

The more it is filled with third world people the more it will look like the third world. 

Quote
The problems with illegal and unlimited immigration is not a failure of civic nationalism; it's a failure to apply civic nationalism.

Multiculturalism is a failed ideology from the onset and competing factions will organize down obvious lines, most often racial background. The radical independent stuff that ran from the 80s-2Ks is a dead ideology. People will either sort yourself into some sort of bloc or get no power or influence at all

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 01:25:51 PM
  I made a comment about monocultures being stronger than diverse culture (on another thread)...I think the Taliban is pretty much proving that one out.  I think China will also prove it out over the next 10 years.  This is not to say I prefer a monoculture, but anyone who thinks having people on one team who argue and fight with one another is going to outperform a team where the members work together and have the same goals/worldview is simply not being objective.

I'd say this is basically 100% wrong.  A competitive-cooperative culture outperforms a monoculture just about every time.  For example, the rise of Western Europe to a colonial power was tied with competition between European powers within a generally cooperative framework.  The United States with a federated system also allows 50 versions of the same goal - ideally the best methods propagate and become universal. 

I don't know that I would ever consider a period of US History to reflect a 'monoculture'.  I know that I would not consider any other nation since 1830 to have 'outperformed' the United States in a meaningful way.

  Other than in wars like Vietnam and Afghanistan you mean??

  Edited to add:  Is it that the over 90 percent christian/european population that made up the USA up until around 1965 was a super diverse culture?   I can say I think I am fine with your disagreement, and since the USA is MUCH more diverse now than in 1965, we can both sit back, and watch how the empire reacts the next 20 years.  Then we can have an answer about who is right.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 01:29:40 PM
  I made a comment about monocultures being stronger than diverse culture (on another thread)...I think the Taliban is pretty much proving that one out.  I think China will also prove it out over the next 10 years.  This is not to say I prefer a monoculture, but anyone who thinks having people on one team who argue and fight with one another is going to outperform a team where the members work together and have the same goals/worldview is simply not being objective.

The Taliban and the CCP are totalitarian governments that don't permit dissent, but their societies are not monocultures like Japan or South Korea. Particularly for Afghanistan, it's quite the opposite. Afghanistan has always been a diverse crossroads in between major powers, with different languages spoken, different traditions, and so forth between the Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and others. It's trying to unite those different cultures that has been a challenge for colonial governments.

As for totalitarian governments being stronger - I think that is short-sighted. There is an tactical advantage to not allowing dissent - it permits more swift and decisive actions. However, I think in the long-term, totalitarian governments have proven less stable than democracies. Totalitarian regimes like the Nazis, the Soviets, and many others have come and gone, with governments frequently falling apart within a generation.

  Nazis did not just dissolve.  The fact they were totalitarian did not do them in, massive hubris and fighting a world war on two fronts did them in.   The soviets were different in that they were grossly incompetent at central planning an economy, I would also add, they had MASSIVE diversity inside that empire that balkanized...

   The Taliban dominates the region because their culture is stronger, they ARE a monoculture.  For some strange reason, you read Taliban and talk to me about afghanistan... missing the point because of afghanistan's very diverse cultures, they got their shit pushed in by the monoculture (Taliban).

  Regarding totalitarians being more short lived than democracies.... Do you think human history started in the colonial ages?  Because unless you do, saying democracies are historically proven out versus totalitarian governments is a complete lack of historical knowledge or context.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 19, 2021, 01:52:45 PM
The problems with illegal and unlimited immigration is not a failure of civic nationalism; it's a failure to apply civic nationalism.

How would you go about enforcing this? How do you know which people have the same values? Do African americans or the children of Hispanics/Asians agree with those values? It's unfalsifiable; if they assimilate, they had compatible values. If they didn't, they weren't true Americans. Ultimately, you still have division based on identity and different demographic trends (crime, academic performance, employment, welfare, abortion, music, etc.) and voting patterns in spite of decades of attempts to bring them all together. If this were a marriage, they would be talking about a divorce.

If the majority of the country became mostly Hispanic and not Anglo-Saxon (which is happening) would the country be the same? how about African americans or Asians? I think deep down we all know that America is a bit more than just a few political institutions, and culture, lifestyle and politics would change if the people change. I can guarantee you none of them left their identity behind the moment they crossed the border, legally or illegally.

The U.S. became majority non-Anglo-Saxon ages ago. Over the course of the 19th century, immigration shifted to continental Europe - plus non-Anglo-saxon populations like the Irish and the Scottish. For over a century, the majority of American citizens are descended from non-English-speakers -- whether that is German-speaking, Italian-speaking, Spanish-speaking, or many other languages and cultures.

Of course, nowadays we don't make a big deal if someone is of Italian descent. They're called "white non-Hispanic" and lumped together with Anglo-Saxons, but that's a case of shifting standards. Back in 1920, many Americans made a big deal about the problems of Italians, Irish, and similar - leading to the Immigration Act of 1924 that established national quotas.

And I agree, immigrants like Italian-Americans didn't leave their identity behind the moment they crossed the border. The differing identities of them and other immigrants changed the culture of the U.S. But culture always changes. That's going to happen regardless of immigration.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 19, 2021, 02:36:22 PM
The Taliban and the CCP are totalitarian governments that don't permit dissent, but their societies are not monocultures like Japan or South Korea. Particularly for Afghanistan, it's quite the opposite. Afghanistan has always been a diverse crossroads in between major powers, with different languages spoken, different traditions, and so forth between the Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and others. It's trying to unite those different cultures that has been a challenge for colonial governments.
   The Taliban dominates the region because their culture is stronger, they ARE a monoculture.  For some strange reason, you read Taliban and talk to me about afghanistan... missing the point because of afghanistan's very diverse cultures, they got their shit pushed in by the monoculture (Taliban).

The Taliban aren't an independent culture to themselves. They are a broad internal political/religious movement within Afghanistan, not a separate foreign society that has forced itself onto Afghan society. Saying that the Taliban beat Afghanistan is off-base, mixing apples and oranges. The Taliban beat the U.S.-backed Republic of Afghanistan government.


As for totalitarian governments being stronger - I think that is short-sighted. There is an tactical advantage to not allowing dissent - it permits more swift and decisive actions. However, I think in the long-term, totalitarian governments have proven less stable than democracies. Totalitarian regimes like the Nazis, the Soviets, and many others have come and gone, with governments frequently falling apart within a generation.
  Regarding totalitarians being more short lived than democracies.... Do you think human history started in the colonial ages?  Because unless you do, saying democracies are historically proven out versus totalitarian governments is a complete lack of historical knowledge or context.

My impression was that the core issue is nations going into the future. i.e. What is best going forward? For that point, I think the last two centuries are more relevant than medieval or ancient times. Though I'd agree that it isn't completely clear. If you want to talk about all of history, that's a different question.

For a modern country, I think that having a strong national identity is important for stability. However, I don't think that cultural and ethnic unity is important. Multicultural countries seem to be doing roughly as well as single-culture countries.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 19, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
And I agree, immigrants like Italian-Americans didn't leave their identity behind the moment they crossed the border. The differing identities of them and other immigrants changed the culture of the U.S. But culture always changes. That's going to happen regardless of immigration.

Different =/= Better.

Regardless, anything can be bad if taken to a stupid extreme. And diversity as I have mentioned many times before is viewed as a VIRTUE in it of itself when at best its a neutral trait.
Diversity can bring new perspectives, or it could rip apart existing sociatal sctructures. Its not a superpower or an inherent strength.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on August 19, 2021, 04:51:50 PM
Meanwhile Seoul looks distinctly Korean, clean, low crime, and high trust while Paris looks like this:

As someone who, before Covid, worked in Paris for years and has as his hobby walking around, I can say that those pictures look suspiciously like cherry picking - and I was someone strolling less than a kilometer from Charlie Hebdo when they were hit by the terrorists.

It also ignores the fact that that's kind of a French (or at least Parisian) thing to do.  "They're rioting in Paris again."  "Oh is it Tuesday already?"

Exactly. And if are, for example, the students those revolting, you can be sure that their parents and grandparents are in the streets with them.

The French are so use revolting that seldom property is damaged (they must be really furious). Mostly, they paint spray everything. I remember seeing one day the column in Place de la Bastille turned into an harlequinesque piece of art. Then the cleaning brigade comes out and everybody moves on.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 19, 2021, 05:35:19 PM
https://twitter.com/thejcoop/status/1428450423220940800

Haha I'm sorry what.

I can grant that military flights aren't cheap, and that reimbursement should be a thing. But holy shit Joe, the optics on this.

They better hope this gets no traction, because fuck me, that comes off as amazingly obnoxious considering all the money we throw at asshole foreign countries and illegals wandering across our southern border.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 05:36:10 PM
The Taliban and the CCP are totalitarian governments that don't permit dissent, but their societies are not monocultures like Japan or South Korea. Particularly for Afghanistan, it's quite the opposite. Afghanistan has always been a diverse crossroads in between major powers, with different languages spoken, different traditions, and so forth between the Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and others. It's trying to unite those different cultures that has been a challenge for colonial governments.
   The Taliban dominates the region because their culture is stronger, they ARE a monoculture.  For some strange reason, you read Taliban and talk to me about afghanistan... missing the point because of afghanistan's very diverse cultures, they got their shit pushed in by the monoculture (Taliban).

The Taliban aren't an independent culture to themselves. They are a broad internal political/religious movement within Afghanistan, not a separate foreign society that has forced itself onto Afghan society. Saying that the Taliban beat Afghanistan is off-base, mixing apples and oranges. The Taliban beat the U.S.-backed Republic of Afghanistan government.


As for totalitarian governments being stronger - I think that is short-sighted. There is an tactical advantage to not allowing dissent - it permits more swift and decisive actions. However, I think in the long-term, totalitarian governments have proven less stable than democracies. Totalitarian regimes like the Nazis, the Soviets, and many others have come and gone, with governments frequently falling apart within a generation.
  Regarding totalitarians being more short lived than democracies.... Do you think human history started in the colonial ages?  Because unless you do, saying democracies are historically proven out versus totalitarian governments is a complete lack of historical knowledge or context.

My impression was that the core issue is nations going into the future. i.e. What is best going forward? For that point, I think the last two centuries are more relevant than medieval or ancient times. Though I'd agree that it isn't completely clear. If you want to talk about all of history, that's a different question.

For a modern country, I think that having a strong national identity is important for stability. However, I don't think that cultural and ethnic unity is important. Multicultural countries seem to be doing roughly as well as single-culture countries.

    In the United States, national identity is shot to shit.   I think you are also reaching when you say multicultural countries.  Meaning you are calling some countries multicultural that are run largely from the perspective of the dominant culture.  I also add, The Taliban is radical islamisists of Afghanistan.   They beat the soviet union, they beat the USA, and they beat the shitlords (Norther alliance of pedos and drug dealers/warlords the USA left in charge)  The Taliban DOMINATES the country and is in charge.  If you are telling me islamic fundamentalists are NOT a monoculture, I think we have different definitions here, and maybe we should make sure we are talking about the same things.

  Edited to add:  I think the next 20 years will settle who is right about this.  hopefully we are both still breathing and the interwebs will be here for you to tell me how wrong I am.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 19, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
For a modern country, I think that having a strong national identity is important for stability. However, I don't think that cultural and ethnic unity is important. Multicultural countries seem to be doing roughly as well as single-culture countries.

    In the United States, national identity is shot to shit.   I think you are also reaching when you say multicultural countries.  Meaning you are calling some countries multicultural that are run largely from the perspective of the dominant culture.  I also add, The Taliban is radical islamisists of Afghanistan.   They beat the soviet union, they beat the USA, and they beat the shitlords (Norther alliance of pedos and drug dealers/warlords the USA left in charge)  The Taliban DOMINATES the country and is in charge.  If you are telling me islamic fundamentalists are NOT a monoculture, I think we have different definitions here, and maybe we should make sure we are talking about the same things.

  Edited to add:  I think the next 20 years will settle who is right about this.  hopefully we are both still breathing and the interwebs will be here for you to tell me how wrong I am.

Well, I've been around here on this board for 15 years and 4 months thus far. I also hope we are both still breathing and around to reflect on this 20 years from now.

Do you have a specific prediction about 20 years from now?

I don't have anything very specific, but I have some limits. I don't think Western Civilization will collapse or that the U.S. will have widespread civil war. I think more likely, people will be screaming that the latest viral video shows how civil war is just around the corner while still on their cell phones. Life in First World countries is still vastly better (including both necessities and freedoms) than in warzones or totalitarian backwaters, and most citizens have no stomach for actual violence. I think the negativity of social media and polarization will get worse for a few years, then bottom out as the push against it goes mainstream. (I'm actually very curious now about how Japan managed to drop their suicide rate so much in just 10 years. I wonder if mental health support will change things.)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 06:31:41 PM
For a modern country, I think that having a strong national identity is important for stability. However, I don't think that cultural and ethnic unity is important. Multicultural countries seem to be doing roughly as well as single-culture countries.

    In the United States, national identity is shot to shit.   I think you are also reaching when you say multicultural countries.  Meaning you are calling some countries multicultural that are run largely from the perspective of the dominant culture.  I also add, The Taliban is radical islamisists of Afghanistan.   They beat the soviet union, they beat the USA, and they beat the shitlords (Norther alliance of pedos and drug dealers/warlords the USA left in charge)  The Taliban DOMINATES the country and is in charge.  If you are telling me islamic fundamentalists are NOT a monoculture, I think we have different definitions here, and maybe we should make sure we are talking about the same things.

  Edited to add:  I think the next 20 years will settle who is right about this.  hopefully we are both still breathing and the interwebs will be here for you to tell me how wrong I am.

Well, I've been around here on this board for 15 years and 4 months thus far. I also hope we are both still breathing and around to reflect on this 20 years from now.

Do you have a specific prediction about 20 years from now?

I don't have anything very specific, but I have some limits. I don't think Western Civilization will collapse or that the U.S. will have widespread civil war. I think more likely, people will be screaming that the latest viral video shows how civil war is just around the corner while still on their cell phones. Life in First World countries is still vastly better (including both necessities and freedoms) than in warzones or totalitarian backwaters, and most citizens have no stomach for actual violence. I think the negativity of social media and polarization will get worse for a few years, then bottom out as the push against it goes mainstream. (I'm actually very curious now about how Japan managed to drop their suicide rate so much in just 10 years. I wonder if mental health support will change things.)

   China becomes the dominant world power, dollar crashes, and the USA in the throes of hard times is not United anymore.  I see more a collapse than large scale civil war.  The number one thing people make mistakes about with business, nations, warfare, etc is that just because something has been a certain way, it will always remain so. 

    Regarding civil war, you are right most people have no stomach for violence which is exactly why the future of nations or civil wars are determined by tiny percentages of the population.  I do not think that is the biggest issue coming for the USA.  I forsee a depression era event, and the people in this country now, are NO WHERE near as hardy as the people who went through that before.  What happens after that is a complete toss up, I can see a super nationalist charismatic type (maybe even with weird mustache rising from that), or even a friendly big brother type rising from the same even (with a much better mustache) and either way the United states is not what it was.    No one gets into a civil war as long as they can downvote videos while holding their phones to their fat bellies.  Let an armed population with hungry kids crying go hungry for a while though....

  Which is why I said I hope you can tell me I was wrong in 20 years.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 19, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
"Multiculturalism" is a hoax.

When you have that you do not have a nation, just a geographic location with a bunch of people in it. There is no true common anything for people to align with.

Just see who is pushing it, and see if it's being practiced by them.

"Multicultural" societies WILL be overrun by those who know better.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2021, 08:59:04 PM
   China becomes the dominant world power...
China is probably close to the apex of their power, right now. The one child policy means they're facing a demographic time bomb, they've badly fucked up their environment, their growth rate was tanking before covid, GDP is a poor measure of the ability to exert power so China's ostensible parity with the US is mostly an illusion, and China is physically in a poor strategic position.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 09:16:34 PM
   China becomes the dominant world power...
China is probably close to the apex of their power, right now. The one child policy means they're facing a demographic time bomb, they've badly fucked up their environment, their growth rate was tanking before covid, GDP is a poor measure of the ability to exert power so China's ostensible parity with the US is mostly an illusion, and China is physically in a poor strategic position.

  They are RAPIDLY colonizing Africa and parts of South America.  They also own several countries,  I have a feeling they are about to encourage producing babies at full tilt, with all sorts of Hiteresque sorts of propaganda about strengthening the nation. 

  Hey I will say the same I did to jhkim, I hope in 20 you point out how wrong I was.  I would also say though, even if they are at the peak of power, all they have to do is slide down slower than we do.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2021, 09:51:29 PM
   China becomes the dominant world power...
China is probably close to the apex of their power, right now. The one child policy means they're facing a demographic time bomb, they've badly fucked up their environment, their growth rate was tanking before covid, GDP is a poor measure of the ability to exert power so China's ostensible parity with the US is mostly an illusion, and China is physically in a poor strategic position.

  They are RAPIDLY colonizing Africa and parts of South America.  They also own several countries,  I have a feeling they are about to encourage producing babies at full tilt, with all sorts of Hiteresque sorts of propaganda about strengthening the nation. 

  Hey I will say the same I did to jhkim, I hope in 20 you point out how wrong I was.  I would also say though, even if they are at the peak of power, all they have to do is slide down slower than we do.
The Belt and Road initiative is basically a huge wealth transfer to other countries, which are consistently behind in paying China back. It's a money sink, and they're running out of money. They switched to a two-child policy in 2015, but it doesn't appear to have worked. The birthrate still seems to be in decline, even without the restriction.

China is a real threat at the moment and for the next decade or so, but long term they're hobbled by a number of factors.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 19, 2021, 09:59:19 PM
   China becomes the dominant world power...
China is probably close to the apex of their power, right now. The one child policy means they're facing a demographic time bomb, they've badly fucked up their environment, their growth rate was tanking before covid, GDP is a poor measure of the ability to exert power so China's ostensible parity with the US is mostly an illusion, and China is physically in a poor strategic position.

  They are RAPIDLY colonizing Africa and parts of South America.  They also own several countries,  I have a feeling they are about to encourage producing babies at full tilt, with all sorts of Hiteresque sorts of propaganda about strengthening the nation. 

  Hey I will say the same I did to jhkim, I hope in 20 you point out how wrong I was.  I would also say though, even if they are at the peak of power, all they have to do is slide down slower than we do.
The Belt and Road initiative is basically a huge wealth transfer to other countries, which are consistently behind in paying China back. It's a money sink, and they're running out of money. They switched to a two-child policy in 2015, but it doesn't appear to have worked. The birthrate still seems to be in decline, even without the restriction.

China is a real threat at the moment and for the next decade or so, but long term they're hobbled by a number of factors.

   Those things I do not dispute.  But a one legged man can beat a no legged man in a race.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 19, 2021, 10:09:08 PM
Greetings!

China has recently instituted a three-child policy, as well as encouraging more and more breeding.

China certainly does have some problems, but I wouldn't expect any dramatic decline in their power, wealth, and influence anytime soon.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 20, 2021, 01:14:08 AM
Greetings!

Check out this important and interesting video from the Dan Bongino program.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 20, 2021, 08:06:38 AM
Greetings!

China has recently instituted a three-child policy, as well as encouraging more and more breeding.

China certainly does have some problems, but I wouldn't expect any dramatic decline in their power, wealth, and influence anytime soon.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
That's because their demographics are so spectacularly fucked, at one point they were buying mail order brides from North Korea.

(And it says a lot about the state of North Korea that this would be considered a HUGE step up for the women in question.)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 20, 2021, 01:22:45 PM
And I agree, immigrants like Italian-Americans didn't leave their identity behind the moment they crossed the border. The differing identities of them and other immigrants changed the culture of the U.S. But culture always changes. That's going to happen regardless of immigration.

Different =/= Better.

Regardless, anything can be bad if taken to a stupid extreme. And diversity as I have mentioned many times before is viewed as a VIRTUE in it of itself when at best its a neutral trait.
Diversity can bring new perspectives, or it could rip apart existing sociatal sctructures. Its not a superpower or an inherent strength.

There are way too many variables and way too many criteria to say whether diversity as a whole is objectively good or bad or neutral. It's too broad and nebulous a question to answer objectively. But it seems to me that SonTodoGato, deathknight4044, and oggsmash are arguing that diversity is an inherent weakness.

Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2021, 03:01:01 PM
And I agree, immigrants like Italian-Americans didn't leave their identity behind the moment they crossed the border. The differing identities of them and other immigrants changed the culture of the U.S. But culture always changes. That's going to happen regardless of immigration.

Different =/= Better.

Regardless, anything can be bad if taken to a stupid extreme. And diversity as I have mentioned many times before is viewed as a VIRTUE in it of itself when at best its a neutral trait.
Diversity can bring new perspectives, or it could rip apart existing sociatal sctructures. Its not a superpower or an inherent strength.

There are way too many variables and way too many criteria to say whether diversity as a whole is objectively good or bad or neutral. It's too broad and nebulous a question to answer objectively. But it seems to me that SonTodoGato, deathknight4044, and oggsmash are arguing that diversity is an inherent weakness.

Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

   I am not arguing that.  I am saying there is a point where diversity for its own sake, and going to a point where some common national bonds are no longer evident is a negative.   When you grew up, immigration quotas from the 3rd world were being filled.  Before 1965 Europe was where the massive flow of immigration was accepted.   Your thoughts on success have absolutely zero means to be proven.  Do you have some evidence the USA was struggling somehow before 1965?    I think you could be right, but it is only a feeling, there is zero proof.  Changing immigration from massively predominantly european to developing world quotas via the Hart-Seller act may have made the USA better, I just know it can not be proven one way or the other.   I can say when leftists are losing their minds, screeching systemic racism, and seem to HATE those anglo-saxon founders with all their hearts....it will not end well. 

     I do not think that sort of thing happens due to ethnic diversity (and lets be frank here, by diversity, we mean less white people) alone.  I do think if there is a subversive, vile, poisonous influence that sees some form of gain through a tear down and "reimagining" of society, I do think diversity (and by that I mean diversity of thought and ideas) may have reached too far and created neighbors who are enemies.    I can only watch so many talking heads going on and on over a shrinking white population and counting the days till white people are no longer a majority...which is hard to understand why anyone would cheer on such a thing beyond they have some idea or agenda they think it is not prudent to disclose yet.

   All that sort of behavior is unnerving to people who wonder why, when under color of LAW it is perfectly legal to NOT hire a white person due solely to race alone and hire another person.  Add in company policies mirror this in many places, and add in academic institutions also mirror these policies in many places.   This all happens all while everyone says how important Diversity (and again, that means LESS white people, especially cis gendered white men) is to our strength, and maybe, just maybe you will get some hint as to how it is beginning to make a few people feel.  I guess if you do not wear the bullseye it seems like no big deal.  I can also understand how people think they have something "owed" to them.  Fair, but I miss how inflicting harm on a person SOLELY because of race does some sort of corrective action to an aggrieved party in the past.   All it does is create division and ill will.  Build up enough ill will, and we may both get a taste of that civil war both of us feel is extremely unlikely. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 20, 2021, 06:14:17 PM
Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

   I am not arguing that.  I am saying there is a point where diversity for its own sake, and going to a point where some common national bonds are no longer evident is a negative.   When you grew up, immigration quotas from the 3rd world were being filled.  Before 1965 Europe was where the massive flow of immigration was accepted.   Your thoughts on success have absolutely zero means to be proven.  Do you have some evidence the USA was struggling somehow before 1965?    I think you could be right, but it is only a feeling, there is zero proof.  Changing immigration from massively predominantly european to developing world quotas via the Hart-Seller act may have made the USA better, I just know it can not be proven one way or the other.

I agree that it can't be proven - especially since what makes the USA "better" is completely subjective. What I'm pushing back against is the idea that immigration of non-Europeans makes the USA worse. Specifically:

(1) Even if one disagrees with it, the positive ideal of the USA as a diverse melting pot isn't a new-fangled SJW thing. It's been a mainstream traditional idea for a long time. The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 passed with a strong majority from both parties (ref) (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h125).

(2) Lacking proof either way, I'm certainly going to side with my being able to exist. If my father had been barred from immigrating to the U.S. for being non-European, I wouldn't have been born.


   All that sort of behavior is unnerving to people who wonder why, when under color of LAW it is perfectly legal to NOT hire a white person due solely to race alone and hire another person.

In the U.S.? The federal Civil Rights act is race-neutral, and equally blocks against hiring discrimination because of being white or black. (Though there are limits to where it applies.) There have been a bunch of successful lawsuits over discrimination because of being white.

https://newsone.com/165891/many-whites-filing-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits/

https://www.buckleybeal.com/blog/2011/july/the-buckley-law-firm-victorious-in-reverse-race-/

As far as I know, that's true of most states as well - including liberal ones. California amended its constitution to ban racial affirmative action in employment and education in 1996. There was a 2020 proposition (Prop 16 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16)) to make it legal again, and it failed to pass by a wider margin than the original ban passed in 1996.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2021, 06:45:19 PM
Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

   I am not arguing that.  I am saying there is a point where diversity for its own sake, and going to a point where some common national bonds are no longer evident is a negative.   When you grew up, immigration quotas from the 3rd world were being filled.  Before 1965 Europe was where the massive flow of immigration was accepted.   Your thoughts on success have absolutely zero means to be proven.  Do you have some evidence the USA was struggling somehow before 1965?    I think you could be right, but it is only a feeling, there is zero proof.  Changing immigration from massively predominantly european to developing world quotas via the Hart-Seller act may have made the USA better, I just know it can not be proven one way or the other.

I agree that it can't be proven - especially since what makes the USA "better" is completely subjective. What I'm pushing back against is the idea that immigration of non-Europeans makes the USA worse. Specifically:

(1) Even if one disagrees with it, the positive ideal of the USA as a diverse melting pot isn't a new-fangled SJW thing. It's been a mainstream traditional idea for a long time. The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 passed with a strong majority from both parties (ref) (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h125).

(2) Lacking proof either way, I'm certainly going to side with my being able to exist. If my father had been barred from immigrating to the U.S. for being non-European, I wouldn't have been born.


   All that sort of behavior is unnerving to people who wonder why, when under color of LAW it is perfectly legal to NOT hire a white person due solely to race alone and hire another person.

In the U.S.? The federal Civil Rights act is race-neutral, and equally blocks against hiring discrimination because of being white or black. (Though there are limits to where it applies.) There have been a bunch of successful lawsuits over discrimination because of being white.

https://newsone.com/165891/many-whites-filing-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits/

https://www.buckleybeal.com/blog/2011/july/the-buckley-law-firm-victorious-in-reverse-race-/

As far as I know, that's true of most states as well - including liberal ones. California amended its constitution to ban racial affirmative action in employment and education in 1996. There was a 2020 proposition (Prop 16 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16)) to make it legal again, and it failed to pass by a wider margin than the original ban passed in 1996.

     Hey man, my phone rang.  10 years ago called and said it was for you.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 20, 2021, 07:15:34 PM
Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

   I am not arguing that.  I am saying there is a point where diversity for its own sake, and going to a point where some common national bonds are no longer evident is a negative.   When you grew up, immigration quotas from the 3rd world were being filled.  Before 1965 Europe was where the massive flow of immigration was accepted.   Your thoughts on success have absolutely zero means to be proven.  Do you have some evidence the USA was struggling somehow before 1965?    I think you could be right, but it is only a feeling, there is zero proof.  Changing immigration from massively predominantly european to developing world quotas via the Hart-Seller act may have made the USA better, I just know it can not be proven one way or the other.

I agree that it can't be proven - especially since what makes the USA "better" is completely subjective. What I'm pushing back against is the idea that immigration of non-Europeans makes the USA worse. Specifically:

(1) Even if one disagrees with it, the positive ideal of the USA as a diverse melting pot isn't a new-fangled SJW thing. It's been a mainstream traditional idea for a long time. The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 passed with a strong majority from both parties (ref) (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h125).

(2) Lacking proof either way, I'm certainly going to side with my being able to exist. If my father had been barred from immigrating to the U.S. for being non-European, I wouldn't have been born.


   All that sort of behavior is unnerving to people who wonder why, when under color of LAW it is perfectly legal to NOT hire a white person due solely to race alone and hire another person.

In the U.S.? The federal Civil Rights act is race-neutral, and equally blocks against hiring discrimination because of being white or black. (Though there are limits to where it applies.) There have been a bunch of successful lawsuits over discrimination because of being white.

https://newsone.com/165891/many-whites-filing-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits/

https://www.buckleybeal.com/blog/2011/july/the-buckley-law-firm-victorious-in-reverse-race-/

As far as I know, that's true of most states as well - including liberal ones. California amended its constitution to ban racial affirmative action in employment and education in 1996. There was a 2020 proposition (Prop 16 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16)) to make it legal again, and it failed to pass by a wider margin than the original ban passed in 1996.

     Hey man, my phone rang.  10 years ago called and said it was for you.

Did you tell them to buy BitCoin? Real Estate? Uber stock?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2021, 07:39:53 PM
Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

   I am not arguing that.  I am saying there is a point where diversity for its own sake, and going to a point where some common national bonds are no longer evident is a negative.   When you grew up, immigration quotas from the 3rd world were being filled.  Before 1965 Europe was where the massive flow of immigration was accepted.   Your thoughts on success have absolutely zero means to be proven.  Do you have some evidence the USA was struggling somehow before 1965?    I think you could be right, but it is only a feeling, there is zero proof.  Changing immigration from massively predominantly european to developing world quotas via the Hart-Seller act may have made the USA better, I just know it can not be proven one way or the other.

I agree that it can't be proven - especially since what makes the USA "better" is completely subjective. What I'm pushing back against is the idea that immigration of non-Europeans makes the USA worse. Specifically:

(1) Even if one disagrees with it, the positive ideal of the USA as a diverse melting pot isn't a new-fangled SJW thing. It's been a mainstream traditional idea for a long time. The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 passed with a strong majority from both parties (ref) (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h125).

(2) Lacking proof either way, I'm certainly going to side with my being able to exist. If my father had been barred from immigrating to the U.S. for being non-European, I wouldn't have been born.


   All that sort of behavior is unnerving to people who wonder why, when under color of LAW it is perfectly legal to NOT hire a white person due solely to race alone and hire another person.

In the U.S.? The federal Civil Rights act is race-neutral, and equally blocks against hiring discrimination because of being white or black. (Though there are limits to where it applies.) There have been a bunch of successful lawsuits over discrimination because of being white.

https://newsone.com/165891/many-whites-filing-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits/

https://www.buckleybeal.com/blog/2011/july/the-buckley-law-firm-victorious-in-reverse-race-/

As far as I know, that's true of most states as well - including liberal ones. California amended its constitution to ban racial affirmative action in employment and education in 1996. There was a 2020 proposition (Prop 16 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16)) to make it legal again, and it failed to pass by a wider margin than the original ban passed in 1996.

     Hey man, my phone rang.  10 years ago called and said it was for you.

Did you tell them to buy BitCoin? Real Estate? Uber stock?

   I told em to call 20 years back and tell em NO to invading Iraq and afghanistan.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 20, 2021, 07:44:21 PM
   I told em to call 20 years back and tell em NO to invading Iraq and afghanistan.
20 years back said you're un-American, and support terrorists.

Opposing the right things before everyone else does usually doesn't go over very well.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2021, 07:55:13 PM
   I told em to call 20 years back and tell em NO to invading Iraq and afghanistan.
20 years back said you're un-American, and support terrorists.

Opposing the right things before everyone else does usually doesn't go over very well.

  Well, I said this back then to people, and made my point (how many saudis were on board, terrorist camps should be the priority, if the Taliban was connected in a CLEAR evidence supported way, bomb the shit out of them for punitive action) and most people did not have that point of view.   But I do remember Bill Mahr getting kicked off network TV for saying something that IMO was simple honesty about the whole thing.  So you could be right, I would likely have been cancelled had their been some social media platform to discuss it on.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 20, 2021, 08:02:00 PM
The federal Civil Rights act is race-neutral, and equally blocks against hiring discrimination because of being white or black. (Though there are limits to where it applies.) There have been a bunch of successful lawsuits over discrimination because of being white.

https://newsone.com/165891/many-whites-filing-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits/

https://www.buckleybeal.com/blog/2011/july/the-buckley-law-firm-victorious-in-reverse-race-/

As far as I know, that's true of most states as well - including liberal ones. California amended its constitution to ban racial affirmative action in employment and education in 1996. There was a 2020 proposition (Prop 16 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16)) to make it legal again, and it failed to pass by a wider margin than the original ban passed in 1996.

     Hey man, my phone rang.  10 years ago called and said it was for you.

Prop 16 was defeated just last November. OK, fine my lawsuit examples were from non-time-based Internet search and were from ten years ago. Here are some more recent successful white discrimination lawsuits:

Quote
A Pennsylvania federal jury said The Geo Group Inc. should pay $3.6 million to a couple who claimed they lost their jobs with the private prison operator because one of them complained about anti-white racial discrimination and harassment.

After a five-day trial, the jury found the company, which ran the Moshannon Valley Correctional Center, should cough up about $2.6 million to Brandy Norfolk and more than $900,000 to Stephen Norfolk, according to a verdict issued July 30 and made public Tuesday.

Stephen Norfolk, who is white, said he faced racial discrimination and a hostile work environment, as well as retaliation for reporting his concerns. He was awarded $275,000 in back pay, $250,000 in compensatory damages and $400,000 in punitive damages, according to the verdict.
Source: https://www.law360.com/employment-authority/articles/1409498/jury-awards-prison-workers-3-6m-in-reverse-race-bias-case

Quote
A federal judge has ruled that Memphis Light, Gas and Water Division must rehire Mike Goza, the technician who was fired after a public backlash over offensive Facebook statements he made about African Americans and violence in Charlottesville, Virginia.
...
The judge ruled MLGW must also give Goza $160,000 in back pay and benefits, plus $30,000 in compensatory damages.
...
Goza, who is white, had also claimed racial discrimination, arguing the utility had acted differently in the case of a black MLGW worker who went on a Facebook rant in which he advocated violence, including killing Asian store owners. That worker got a three-day suspension.

The judge cited the case of that other worker and agreed with Goza's racial discrimination argument.
Source: https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2019/06/18/mike-goza-case-judge-rules-favor-mlgw-worker-memphis-offensive-remarks-facebook/1482185001/
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2021, 08:11:02 PM
The federal Civil Rights act is race-neutral, and equally blocks against hiring discrimination because of being white or black. (Though there are limits to where it applies.) There have been a bunch of successful lawsuits over discrimination because of being white.

https://newsone.com/165891/many-whites-filing-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits/

https://www.buckleybeal.com/blog/2011/july/the-buckley-law-firm-victorious-in-reverse-race-/

As far as I know, that's true of most states as well - including liberal ones. California amended its constitution to ban racial affirmative action in employment and education in 1996. There was a 2020 proposition (Prop 16 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16)) to make it legal again, and it failed to pass by a wider margin than the original ban passed in 1996.

     Hey man, my phone rang.  10 years ago called and said it was for you.

Prop 16 was defeated just last November. OK, fine my lawsuit examples were from non-time-based Internet search and were from ten years ago. Here are some more recent successful white discrimination lawsuits:

Quote
A Pennsylvania federal jury said The Geo Group Inc. should pay $3.6 million to a couple who claimed they lost their jobs with the private prison operator because one of them complained about anti-white racial discrimination and harassment.

After a five-day trial, the jury found the company, which ran the Moshannon Valley Correctional Center, should cough up about $2.6 million to Brandy Norfolk and more than $900,000 to Stephen Norfolk, according to a verdict issued July 30 and made public Tuesday.

Stephen Norfolk, who is white, said he faced racial discrimination and a hostile work environment, as well as retaliation for reporting his concerns. He was awarded $275,000 in back pay, $250,000 in compensatory damages and $400,000 in punitive damages, according to the verdict.
Source: https://www.law360.com/employment-authority/articles/1409498/jury-awards-prison-workers-3-6m-in-reverse-race-bias-case

Quote
A federal judge has ruled that Memphis Light, Gas and Water Division must rehire Mike Goza, the technician who was fired after a public backlash over offensive Facebook statements he made about African Americans and violence in Charlottesville, Virginia.
...
The judge ruled MLGW must also give Goza $160,000 in back pay and benefits, plus $30,000 in compensatory damages.
...
Goza, who is white, had also claimed racial discrimination, arguing the utility had acted differently in the case of a black MLGW worker who went on a Facebook rant in which he advocated violence, including killing Asian store owners. That worker got a three-day suspension.

The judge cited the case of that other worker and agreed with Goza's racial discrimination argument.
Source: https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2019/06/18/mike-goza-case-judge-rules-favor-mlgw-worker-memphis-offensive-remarks-facebook/1482185001/

  Not a one has a thing to do with me saying hiring preferences using race are allowed.  You have lists of people being fired.  I am not sure if you understood what I said, because you seem to be answering a different question.    Do you work for snopes?  They love to answer questions no one asked too.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2021, 08:21:32 PM
  Let me save you a bit of time.  Affirmative action is alive and well, and overtly racist, at least by the definition we have always used.  As to your earlier suggestion that I implied a more euro USA was better, I did not.  I simply made the point that it being more diverse may not have made it better either.  I also clearly laid out where I have issue with diversity and where the breaking points start to show up.  My main point around european immigration, was to counter the idea the USA has always been very diverse, especially with regard to modern usage of the word.  That is simply untrue, it was a nation of white and black people, and other populations were miniscule. 

   So for some reason you approach this as if I am attempting to say that was better (much whiter I guess), which I did not.  I simply said I missed the problems that diversity solved, or if there was some measureable problem the hart sellar act was there to fix (also remember the people who presented that act made LOTS OF PROMISES as to how it would not in any way alter the demographics of the USA, which was a lie, or they are the biggest retards to ever walk the earth).   Is it better or worse now?  It is not for me to say, as I already made it VERY CLEAR to anyone who is reading what I say, that I do not think ethnic diversity creates some negative impact.  Cultural diversity, when the diverse starts to look more like divided....well then some problems can come about, this is common sense.   

   You have capitulated that there is no way to prove the nation is better due to diversity, I agree.  You said you are ok with it anyway, because you would not exist without it.  I also agree with this (my wife would not be here either, as she is half Lebanese) as well.  So I miss where you are going on about this european thing.  Ethnicity/race has no play to me when I discuss diversity.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 21, 2021, 12:19:55 AM
And I agree, immigrants like Italian-Americans didn't leave their identity behind the moment they crossed the border. The differing identities of them and other immigrants changed the culture of the U.S. But culture always changes. That's going to happen regardless of immigration.

Different =/= Better.

Regardless, anything can be bad if taken to a stupid extreme. And diversity as I have mentioned many times before is viewed as a VIRTUE in it of itself when at best its a neutral trait.
Diversity can bring new perspectives, or it could rip apart existing sociatal sctructures. Its not a superpower or an inherent strength.

There are way too many variables and way too many criteria to say whether diversity as a whole is objectively good or bad or neutral. It's too broad and nebulous a question to answer objectively. But it seems to me that SonTodoGato, deathknight4044, and oggsmash are arguing that diversity is an inherent weakness.

Specifically in the case of the U.S. accepting non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants, I think historically, the U.S. has proven it to be a success. When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, the diversity of the U.S. was widely taken as a traditional value - where we celebrated how the U.S. was a land of opportunity that welcomed immigrants and was a melting pot of different peoples. My father is a non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant who came to the U.S. after the Korean War.

I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

That was the policy of the US for most of its history; immigration restricted to "white men of good character" or qualified non-whites who were expected to assimilate. Quite restrictive, not that diverse. It was only in 1965, shortly after the victory of the forces of internationalism and socialism and the defeat of nationalism that the US decided to change its policy for reasons I ignore. Ever since then, diversity started to mean something else.

Just to clarify, migration benefitted the US largely and there is nothing wrong about there being a variety of cultures and identities who coexist in peace. The problem is the forced diversity which serves a political purpose. It's diversity for the sake of it and the benefit of politicians.

My questions are:

1) How/Why does diversity improve a society? What is the ideal ratio of ethnicities?

2) If migrants don't leave their identity behind... How can you expect them to agree on fundamental values and see past race?

3) How did the US manage to be great before 1965? How did any other country with less diversity?

4) Would you like to live in a very diverse place? Or would you rather stay in a community of people with a similar background to yours?

5) Would you want Korea to be diversified to the point where ethnic Koreans become a minority? (this one was meant for JHkim specifically, but it can apply to anyone. I do not ask this in a demeaning way, and I have no animosity against anyone. I'm just illustrating a point; ethnicity matters to people)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: S'mon on August 21, 2021, 06:10:50 AM
(2) Lacking proof either way, I'm certainly going to side with my being able to exist. If my father had been barred from immigrating to the U.S. for being non-European, I wouldn't have been born.

What's good for you isn't necessarily good for the natives. OTOH my experience in the USA was that the East-Asians I met were clearly full Americans in every way that mattered, and made a lot of positive contributions (and few negative - East-Asian violent crime rates are ca 1/3 that of white Americans, ca 1/30 that of African-Americans); if I were American I'd be in favour of (some, limited) east-Asian immigration. Some other groups are more marginal, and some like Somalis are a huge net negative for everyone else. Afghans seem a lot closer to Somalis than Koreans. https://www.unz.com/isteve/new-dutch-study-of-cost-of-refugees/
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 21, 2021, 11:17:39 AM
(2) Lacking proof either way, I'm certainly going to side with my being able to exist. If my father had been barred from immigrating to the U.S. for being non-European, I wouldn't have been born.

What's good for you isn't necessarily good for the natives. OTOH my experience in the USA was that the East-Asians I met were clearly full Americans in every way that mattered, and made a lot of positive contributions (and few negative - East-Asian violent crime rates are ca 1/3 that of white Americans, ca 1/30 that of African-Americans); if I were American I'd be in favour of (some, limited) east-Asian immigration. Some other groups are more marginal, and some like Somalis are a huge net negative for everyone else. Afghans seem a lot closer to Somalis than Koreans. https://www.unz.com/isteve/new-dutch-study-of-cost-of-refugees/

Asians tend to perform better than Americans academically and professionally; so much for systemic racism. That's why they had to be considered to benefit from "white privilege", because otherwise the narrative of blacks being kept down by racism would fall apart.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/26/doe-may-have-claimed-asian-students-benefit-from-white-supremacy/
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 21, 2021, 06:48:51 PM
I think that if the U.S. had only accepted Anglo-Saxon immigrants from its founding, that it never would have had the success that it has had.

That was the policy of the US for most of its history; immigration restricted to "white men of good character" or qualified non-whites who were expected to assimilate. Quite restrictive, not that diverse. It was only in 1965, shortly after the victory of the forces of internationalism and socialism and the defeat of nationalism that the US decided to change its policy for reasons I ignore. Ever since then, diversity started to mean something else.

You're equating "Anglo-Saxon" with "white" here, but they mean different things. Compared to its rivals at the time, the U.S. from its founding through 1925 was more open and diverse. It restricted naturalization to mostly white people - but at the time, "white" included a wide range of non-Anglo-Saxon ethnicities from Irish to Mexicans to Italians to Jews to Russians and more. Also, the initial population of the colonies was only around 80% white. These made it significantly more diverse than its European rivals.

From 1925 to 1965, there was a much more restricted immigration policy - especially as a pushback against non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants like Irish, Italians, and Jews. However, that was a limited period and immigration opened up further after that.

Our diversity has never been perfect - but it gave us gospel and jazz and rock 'n roll. It made us the leader in atomic energy thanks to Jewish and other non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants. It has generated much of our uniquely American cultures and traditions.


Just to clarify, migration benefitted the US largely and there is nothing wrong about there being a variety of cultures and identities who coexist in peace. The problem is the forced diversity which serves a political purpose. It's diversity for the sake of it and the benefit of politicians.

The question is, what is considered "forced" in terms of immigration? For example, I would say that the whites-only naturalization is just as forced and political as any other immigration laws. I don't think there is a neutral choice. Immigration will always reflect our values and politics. The Immigration Act of 1965 was voted in by a strong majority of both parties who were democratically elected. The changeover from whites-only naturalization to modern immigration reflected the will of the American people as a whole, not just politicians.


My questions are:

1) How/Why does diversity improve a society? What is the ideal ratio of ethnicities?

2) If migrants don't leave their identity behind... How can you expect them to agree on fundamental values and see past race?

3) How did the US manage to be great before 1965? How did any other country with less diversity?

4) Would you like to live in a very diverse place? Or would you rather stay in a community of people with a similar background to yours?

5) Would you want Korea to be diversified to the point where ethnic Koreans become a minority? (this one was meant for JHkim specifically, but it can apply to anyone. I do not ask this in a demeaning way, and I have no animosity against anyone. I'm just illustrating a point; ethnicity matters to people)

(1) There is no ideal ratio. There are countries that are more diverse and countries that are less diverse, and both make it work.

(2) Migrants have never left their identity behind, nor has there ever been perfect agreement between Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, and English-Americans. They can still live in peace and cooperate despite their differences, though.

(3) Diversity isn't required as I said, but America became great - among other things - by being more diverse than its rivals in Europe.

(4) I like to have some people of similar background, but it doesn't need to be a majority. I like the diversity of most of the places I've lived - all within the U.S. but in mixed communities. Currently, my church is mostly white and I'm fine with that. My workplace is mostly Asian, and I'm fine with that as well.

(5) I don't see a problem with that if it happens peacefully from democratic will. My father married my mother, who is white. I have one cousin who married a Chinese woman, and another who adopted Chinese children. It has worked out well for us, and I would be fine if the rest of Korea were to have similar experiences as my family.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 21, 2021, 08:00:24 PM

You're equating "Anglo-Saxon" with "white" here, but they mean different things. Compared to its rivals at the time, the U.S. from its founding through 1925 was more open and diverse. It restricted naturalization to mostly white people - but at the time, "white" included a wide range of non-Anglo-Saxon ethnicities from Irish to Mexicans to Italians to Jews to Russians and more. Also, the initial population of the colonies was only around 80% white. These made it significantly more diverse than its European rivals. From 1925 to 1965, there was a much more restricted immigration policy - especially as a pushback against non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants like Irish, Italians, and Jews. However, that was a limited period and immigration opened up further after that.

Our diversity has never been perfect - but it gave us gospel and jazz and rock 'n roll. It made us the leader in atomic energy thanks to Jewish and other non-Anglo-Saxon immigrants. It has generated much of our uniquely American cultures and traditions.

It also gave them slavery, riots, segregation, affirmative action, no child left behind, gangs & mafias, BLM, statues torn down... I think it's just cherrypicking. When diversity works out, it's great and civic nationalism gets credit. When it doesn't, everybody looks the other way and blame it on the left. And even then, jazz and gospel are distinctly black; they come from mostly black artists who gathered in black communities. They formed subcultures; not diverse at all. Throughout history, they had hundreds of ghettos and hyphenated Americans; how is that unity?


Quote
The question is, what is considered "forced" in terms of immigration? For example, I would say that the whites-only naturalization is just as forced and political as any other immigration laws. I don't think there is a neutral choice. Immigration will always reflect our values and politics. The Immigration Act of 1965 was voted in by a strong majority of both parties who were democratically elected. The changeover from whites-only naturalization to modern immigration reflected the will of the American people as a whole, not just politicians.

I doubt the 1965 naturalization represented Americans; Why did they change their policy all of a sudden? What prompted them to go from segregated schools and whites-only to opening their country to practically anyone? To this day, people still oppose immigration; it's one of the most controversial issues. Imagine back in the 60's.


Quote
(1) There is no ideal ratio. There are countries that are more diverse and countries that are less diverse, and both make it work.

(2) Migrants have never left their identity behind, nor has there ever been perfect agreement between Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, and English-Americans. They can still live in peace and cooperate despite their differences, though.

(3) Diversity isn't required as I said, but America became great - among other things - by being more diverse than its rivals in Europe.

(4) I like to have some people of similar background, but it doesn't need to be a majority. I like the diversity of most of the places I've lived - all within the U.S. but in mixed communities. Currently, my church is mostly white and I'm fine with that. My workplace is mostly Asian, and I'm fine with that as well.

(5) I don't see a problem with that if it happens peacefully from democratic will. My father married my mother, who is white. I have one cousin who married a Chinese woman, and another who adopted Chinese children. It has worked out well for us, and I would be fine if the rest of Korea were to have similar experiences as my family.

America had a good economic policy, constitutionalist values, immigration of hard-working people, and benefitted from both world wars. Having different ethnicities didn't bring any of those things about. What I don't get is why you go from saying "diversity made us great" to "diversity is not necesary". How would you know if diversity caused the greatness of America? You're now more diverse than ever before, yet people feel discontent because of this. If diversity is such a source of greatness, why do people demand less everywhere it happens; Europe, America, Asia, Middle East, etc.?

Why do you prefer to be around other Asians? I think that proves my point exactly. People still flock to their own, based on cultural background and ethinicities, and there is no such thing as Americans being united by common constitutionalist values.

Eventually, when whites become a minority in America, do you think they will be treated with the same kindness they offered other minorities? Or will they become the scapegoat and denied rights? Will the constitutionalist values remain, or will they be replaced by the values and sensibilities of other demographics who value identity politics more than free speech and fiscal conservatism? Do you think the people who are migrating now to America care about preserving the constitution, free market meritocracy and a republic? Or will they vote in their own personal interest because they don't come from constitutionalist cultures? Will they vote people because they appeal to their identity (Obama, Yang, AOC, Bernie Sanders, Warren, Harris, Stacey Abrahms, Omar, etc.) or will they try to see past race? Will they value Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln, or will history be rewritten? Will it be 1776 or 1619?

Compare the voting patterns of any ethnicity in America and you'll see there is a distinct trend. Conservatism, republicanism and free market are mostly white and middle class. Other groups don't care about those things; they don't mind doing away with a few ammendments, like we're already seeing.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 21, 2021, 10:56:54 PM
Why do you prefer to be around other Asians? I think that proves my point exactly. People still flock to their own, based on cultural background and ethinicities, and there is no such thing as Americans being united by common constitutionalist values.

I'll have a more detailed answer later, but this completely fails to match what I wrote. My current workplace is predominantly Asian, but that's not my general preference. It also hasn't been true of many of my past workplaces.

In my hobbies - my gaming groups have been predominantly white. Community theater is mixed - white, Latino, and Asian mostly. My local dance studio was mixed, majority Latino. My church is predominantly white. Most of my friends from these communities are white. My serious romantic relationships have been with white or Latino partners. My sisters also married white husbands.

Historically, there is some tendency to self-select by ethnicity - but it's not overwhelming. Without a strong cultural movement towards segregation, different ethnicities often do mix and blend into each other. From ancient times, tribes would often merge or split - becoming different peoples that blended former cultures and civilizations.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 21, 2021, 11:09:53 PM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Zelen on August 22, 2021, 06:53:03 PM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.

Apparently the answer is, "As many refugees as can print papers," since the current US ruling class saw fit to issue visa documents that could easily be printed and filled out by any number of people with zero vetting. Ongoing reports on who is being evacuated reveals that the ruling class is more concerned with evacuating Afghans than it is with evacuating US citizens.

In a sane country prioritizing Afghans for evacuation before Americans would be a crime, and resettling unvetted people from foreign nations without consent should be considered an attack on Americans.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 23, 2021, 12:59:05 AM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.

Apparently the answer is, "As many refugees as can print papers," since the current US ruling class saw fit to issue visa documents that could easily be printed and filled out by any number of people with zero vetting. Ongoing reports on who is being evacuated reveals that the ruling class is more concerned with evacuating Afghans than it is with evacuating US citizens.

In a sane country prioritizing Afghans for evacuation before Americans would be a crime, and resettling unvetted people from foreign nations without consent should be considered an attack on Americans.

  Then maybe we can get 1.5 million to 2 million successfully re located to the USA.  Sounds good to me, as we need some more people.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 08:07:55 AM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.

Apparently the answer is, "As many refugees as can print papers," since the current US ruling class saw fit to issue visa documents that could easily be printed and filled out by any number of people with zero vetting. Ongoing reports on who is being evacuated reveals that the ruling class is more concerned with evacuating Afghans than it is with evacuating US citizens.

In a sane country prioritizing Afghans for evacuation before Americans would be a crime, and resettling unvetted people from foreign nations without consent should be considered an attack on Americans.

  Then maybe we can get 1.5 million to 2 million successfully re located to the USA.  Sounds good to me, as we need some more people.
Not unless they can acclimate and behave themselves.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 23, 2021, 08:09:58 AM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.

Apparently the answer is, "As many refugees as can print papers," since the current US ruling class saw fit to issue visa documents that could easily be printed and filled out by any number of people with zero vetting. Ongoing reports on who is being evacuated reveals that the ruling class is more concerned with evacuating Afghans than it is with evacuating US citizens.

In a sane country prioritizing Afghans for evacuation before Americans would be a crime, and resettling unvetted people from foreign nations without consent should be considered an attack on Americans.

  Then maybe we can get 1.5 million to 2 million successfully re located to the USA.  Sounds good to me, as we need some more people.
Not unless they can acclimate and behave themselves.

  I would say, judging by the general level of ability shown in taking on military standards during training and execution, they are going to fit right in.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 09:07:41 AM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.

Apparently the answer is, "As many refugees as can print papers," since the current US ruling class saw fit to issue visa documents that could easily be printed and filled out by any number of people with zero vetting. Ongoing reports on who is being evacuated reveals that the ruling class is more concerned with evacuating Afghans than it is with evacuating US citizens.

In a sane country prioritizing Afghans for evacuation before Americans would be a crime, and resettling unvetted people from foreign nations without consent should be considered an attack on Americans.

  Then maybe we can get 1.5 million to 2 million successfully re located to the USA.  Sounds good to me, as we need some more people.
Not unless they can acclimate and behave themselves.

  I would say, judging by the general level of ability shown in taking on military standards during training and execution, they are going to fit right in.
No way to tell. During the U.S. embassy's hurried preparations to leave, they were in possession of Afghani passports being used to draw up visas. Guess what got destroyed in the scramble?

https://news.yahoo.com/us-officials-destroyed-afghans-passports-103522867.html

Oops.

And how do we vet these people? How do we make sure they're legit and not 'long con' terrorists? Sean Parnell, a combat platoon leader in Afghanistan, detailed how a 'completely vetted' Afghani interpreter wormed his way in and engineered an IED attack against Parnell's platoon, killing one and injuring four others. This same interpreter also engineered the murder of one of his co-interpreters so he'd have full access to info as head interpreter. Nice guy, eh?

Yeah. I have no confidence we won't get a fistful of assholes, and even a fistful is too many.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 23, 2021, 09:13:26 AM
  Back towards the topic, I am curious just how many refugees will be created from this whole situation.    So far it looks like the 20-40 year old dudes are shoving the women and kids out of the way to get out as fast as they can.   Maybe those are just around the airport, and the nation at large is not in total chaos.   The best part, is I for see paying the Talban a nice stipend every year to pretend they have women taking part in their government.  I hate to see people suffer and chaos, but this was going to happen no matter what once we decided to nation build.  I honestly hope the USA gets a million plus refugees.

Apparently the answer is, "As many refugees as can print papers," since the current US ruling class saw fit to issue visa documents that could easily be printed and filled out by any number of people with zero vetting. Ongoing reports on who is being evacuated reveals that the ruling class is more concerned with evacuating Afghans than it is with evacuating US citizens.

In a sane country prioritizing Afghans for evacuation before Americans would be a crime, and resettling unvetted people from foreign nations without consent should be considered an attack on Americans.

  Then maybe we can get 1.5 million to 2 million successfully re located to the USA.  Sounds good to me, as we need some more people.
Not unless they can acclimate and behave themselves.

  I would say, judging by the general level of ability shown in taking on military standards during training and execution, they are going to fit right in.
No way to tell. During the U.S. embassy's hurried preparations to leave, they were in possession of Afghani passports being used to draw up visas. Guess what got destroyed in the scramble?

https://news.yahoo.com/us-officials-destroyed-afghans-passports-103522867.html

Oops.

And how do we vet these people? How do we make sure they're legit and not 'long con' terrorists? Sean Parnell, a combat platoon leader in Afghanistan, detailed how a 'completely vetted' Afghani interpreter wormed his way in and engineered an IED attack against Parnell's platoon, killing one and injuring four others. This same interpreter also engineered the murder of one of his co-interpreters so he'd have full access to info as head interpreter. Nice guy, eh?

Yeah. I have no confidence we won't get a fistful of assholes, and even a fistful is too many.

  America is an idea.  People set foot on the soil and immediately become freedom loving, can do, self reliant patriots.  Where have you been the past 50 years?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
LOL, ogg, you ass. You know you need to toss the /sarc tag up because some idiot's going to think you're serious, right? :)

In other news: ran across this list of what we just gifted to the Taliban with our retreat.

Quote
-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Googles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators
Haven't been able to verify it yet, but it gels with a number of other stories I've seen.

Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 23, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
LOL, ogg, you ass. You know you need to toss the /sarc tag up because some idiot's going to think you're serious, right? :)

In other news: ran across this list of what we just gifted to the Taliban with our retreat.

Quote
-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Googles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators
Haven't been able to verify it yet, but it gels with a number of other stories I've seen.

Jesus Christ.

   Well, I guess when the shitbirds start shopping around the idea we have to invade afghanistan to neutralize the modern armaments they have, at least this time the weapons will actually exist.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 23, 2021, 01:50:40 PM
 As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.   
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 03:42:57 PM
As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.
See, I've always had a pragmatic view of things.

You have to indoctrinate these things into people. Twice as hard if they don't come from a culture that's anywhere near yours. Doesn't mean it can't happen but you have to do the work. As you sow, so shall you reap.

America really is built on ideas rather than ethnicity, despite what Teddy Beale hallucinates (that dumb beta cuck also thinks the ideal government is a monarchy). But you have to load those ideas in first. And I have no confidence that the current pack of 'top men' are up for it, even if our educational industry wasn't devoted to shitting all over the ideas of rules, equality, etc, etc.

People can learn and change. But you have to teach them. And if you don't teach them the right way, chances are good they'll go the wrong way. You don't need two million Afghanis to figure that question out; recent instances with teenagers acting like ferals in Philly is good enough.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 23, 2021, 04:12:05 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, our fine culture is deteriorating like a big pile of dog-shit in the summer sun, and we wonder why different people around the world have zero interest in adopting our fucking cesspool culture?

We have a years and years of work to do right here in the US to even hope to unfuck our debauched, polluted and degenerate culture, before we even think about wanting to teach other people a fucking thing.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 23, 2021, 05:35:45 PM
As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.

First of all, I don't think that's possible. We had over a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees just after the end of the Vietnam War, but that was only possible because they were able to leave the country by boat and shipped in large numbers - hence they were known as "boat people". Most of them could not be screened because they had few records and no way to confirm what documents they had with inside Vietnam after the government fell. Afghanistan being land-locked, this route isn't available.

Given the situation, I think we will have fewer refugees and that they will be better screened than Vietnamese refugees in 1978-79. That could certainly still be too many refugees and not enough screening for some people, but it's a relative statement. There was plenty of criticism and controversy over accepting Vietnamese refugees at the time.


Even if we were to get 2 million, though, I don't think it would show any truth that wasn't already revealed by the millions of Irish immigrants in the 1800s or the millions of various other immigrants in 20th century.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 23, 2021, 05:43:54 PM
Yeah, our fine culture is deteriorating like a big pile of dog-shit in the summer sun, and we wonder why different people around the world have zero interest in adopting our fucking cesspool culture?

We have a years and years of work to do right here in the US to even hope to unfuck our debauched, polluted and degenerate culture, before we even think about wanting to teach other people a fucking thing.

SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/). There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 23, 2021, 05:44:19 PM
LOL, ogg, you ass. You know you need to toss the /sarc tag up because some idiot's going to think you're serious, right? :)

In other news: ran across this list of what we just gifted to the Taliban with our retreat.

Quote
-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Googles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators
Haven't been able to verify it yet, but it gels with a number of other stories I've seen.

Jesus Christ.

I am convinced that sooner or later we are going to go back in, directly because of the equipment bolstering the Taliban.
This is gonna be one of those talking points that people point out when we're back, balls deep in the middle east.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 23, 2021, 07:23:48 PM
Yeah, our fine culture is deteriorating like a big pile of dog-shit in the summer sun, and we wonder why different people around the world have zero interest in adopting our fucking cesspool culture?

We have a years and years of work to do right here in the US to even hope to unfuck our debauched, polluted and degenerate culture, before we even think about wanting to teach other people a fucking thing.

SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/). There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?

Greetings!

Hi, Jhkim. Yes, I do. I think Vietnamese Americans are awesome. Why do you ask?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 23, 2021, 08:01:05 PM
SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/). There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?

Hi, Jhkim. Yes, I do. I think Vietnamese Americans are awesome. Why do you ask?

I think the parallels of Vietnam and Afghanistan are pretty clear. We supported a local government but then pulled out and the government was overrun by anti-American forces, resulting in thousand of refugees applying to resettle in the U.S. In the 1978 and 1979, the U.S. accepted hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees, with little ability to vet their backgrounds.

Certainly someone in 1979 might claim that the U.S. as in terrible shape to accept refugees. Our economy was in terrible shape and we were going through massive inflation (13.3%). We had widespread political violence with black power and other dissident groups. The Vietnam War itself had brought massive leftist protests as well as significant domestic terrorism. The Vietnamese were characterized as communist - based on the success of the VC with the Vietnamese people compared to the U.S.

Despite these, do you think it was a good idea for the U.S. to accept Vietnamese refugees? If so, why? And would those same reasons apply to Afghanistan given the similarities?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 23, 2021, 08:46:42 PM
SHARK - Less that a year ago, you started a thread "Vietnamese-Americans Rally for President Trump in California" (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/vietnamese-americans-rally-for-president-trump-in-california/). There you went on about the awesomeness of Vietnamese-Americans.

Do you still feel the same way?

Hi, Jhkim. Yes, I do. I think Vietnamese Americans are awesome. Why do you ask?

I think the parallels of Vietnam and Afghanistan are pretty clear. We supported a local government but then pulled out and the government was overrun by anti-American forces, resulting in thousand of refugees applying to resettle in the U.S. In the 1978 and 1979, the U.S. accepted hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees, with little ability to vet their backgrounds.

Certainly someone in 1979 might claim that the U.S. as in terrible shape to accept refugees. Our economy was in terrible shape and we were going through massive inflation (13.3%). We had widespread political violence with black power and other dissident groups. The Vietnam War itself had brought massive leftist protests as well as significant domestic terrorism. The Vietnamese were characterized as communist - based on the success of the VC with the Vietnamese people compared to the U.S.

Despite these, do you think it was a good idea for the U.S. to accept Vietnamese refugees? If so, why? And would those same reasons apply to Afghanistan given the similarities?

Greetings!

Ahh, I see. Well, not all nations and people are equal. Afghanistan is not equal to Vietnam. Many of the Vietnamese refugees were Catholic. Most of the Afghans are Muslims. The South Vietnamese had many years of supporting us. The Afghans? Well, some of them have supported us, but who knows about the rest?

Considering the history of terrorism from fucking Muslims, the Afghans need to be carefully screened and vetted. Not just open the fucking gates and let them pour into our fucking country. Fuck that.

Having said that, the Afghans that assisted us as allies should be rescued, along with their families.

This whole situation is an epic fucking disaster by fucking Biden, Kamala, and this whole corrupt, pathetic regime. The State Department, the DOD, the generals, they are all absolutely fucking weak, pathetic, and worthless. This is an enormous defeat, and the entire scenario is a gigantic corrupt clusterfuck. It's shameful, and embarassing. None of this should have ever happened to begin with.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 23, 2021, 08:50:30 PM
The most popular president ever right here, folks.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/joe-bidens-aides-too-afraid-to-tell-him-he-was-wrong-on-afghanistan-say-white-house-insiders/ar-AANzWlc?ocid=uxbndlbing

Remember, NeverTrumpies, you voted for this. You demanded this, because the Orange Man was going around upsetting the rice bowls.

Hope it was worth it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2021, 08:15:35 AM
As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.

First of all, I don't think that's possible. We had over a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees just after the end of the Vietnam War, but that was only possible because they were able to leave the country by boat and shipped in large numbers - hence they were known as "boat people". Most of them could not be screened because they had few records and no way to confirm what documents they had with inside Vietnam after the government fell. Afghanistan being land-locked, this route isn't available.

Given the situation, I think we will have fewer refugees and that they will be better screened than Vietnamese refugees in 1978-79. That could certainly still be too many refugees and not enough screening for some people, but it's a relative statement. There was plenty of criticism and controversy over accepting Vietnamese refugees at the time.


Even if we were to get 2 million, though, I don't think it would show any truth that wasn't already revealed by the millions of Irish immigrants in the 1800s or the millions of various other immigrants in 20th century.

  If you feel the level of differences in basic culture and lifestyle, as well as social norms and expectations of the 1800's Irish and the USA are the same as the cultural differences of Afghans in 2021, you are simply a moron.  I do not mean that as an attack, I think you would have to be a moron to think that.  I do not think you are a moron, so you are either just firing off an answer, or have given it zero critical thought. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2021, 08:40:08 AM
 I walked away for a few minutes and came to my senses.  I now agree, 2 million afghanis will have no or little visible negative impact on the USA.  It is pretty much exactly the same as taking 100k refugees 42 years ago.  And definitely the same as taking on millions of IMMIGRANTS (oh, that is a different word...where the person has to come at some risk and effort and expense of their own) who came to a nation that had zero social programs to support them, making it sink or swim.   

   I also remembered, what do I care, if it is great, wonderful.  If there is a miscalculation and we have friction...well I am leaving anyway.  Apologies if anything I said was a little too reactionary.  I am certain it will work out for what is best for everyone.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 24, 2021, 09:19:31 AM
I walked away for a few minutes and came to my senses.  I now agree, 2 million afghanis will have no or little visible negative impact on the USA.  It is pretty much exactly the same as taking 100k refugees 42 years ago.  And definitely the same as taking on millions of IMMIGRANTS (oh, that is a different word...where the person has to come at some risk and effort and expense of their own) who came to a nation that had zero social programs to support them, making it sink or swim.   

   I also remembered, what do I care, if it is great, wonderful.  If there is a miscalculation and we have friction...well I am leaving anyway.  Apologies if anything I said was a little too reactionary.  I am certain it will work out for what is best for everyone.
No, I'd say your first post was pretty much on the money, and that jhkim is just an idiot.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 24, 2021, 10:26:01 AM
John Kim seems to approach a lot of social issues as a particle physicist, i.e. control a few variables to isolate one element, and the results can be used to predict future behavior with a high degree of certainty. The problem is that doesn't work with social sciences, which involve complex and messy human behavior, where isolating elements is often an exercise in futility, experimenting is often unethical, even seemingly ideal natural experiments mask endless uncontrolled variables that can have a huge effect on the outcomes, and successful prognostication is mostly blind luck, perhaps with a smidgen of art.

The idea that if you can just identify a handful of similarities, then two radically different groups in radically different cultural milieus will have the same outcomes, probably comes from that mindset.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 24, 2021, 11:03:30 AM
As for the /sarc tag...I have this a great deal of thought, and I think just letting in 2 million afghan refugees is the best way for us to get right to the truth of the matter with immigration, America, and the magic freedom/self reliance soil.

First of all, I don't think that's possible. We had over a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees just after the end of the Vietnam War, but that was only possible because they were able to leave the country by boat and shipped in large numbers - hence they were known as "boat people". Most of them could not be screened because they had few records and no way to confirm what documents they had with inside Vietnam after the government fell. Afghanistan being land-locked, this route isn't available.

Given the situation, I think we will have fewer refugees and that they will be better screened than Vietnamese refugees in 1978-79. That could certainly still be too many refugees and not enough screening for some people, but it's a relative statement. There was plenty of criticism and controversy over accepting Vietnamese refugees at the time.


Even if we were to get 2 million, though, I don't think it would show any truth that wasn't already revealed by the millions of Irish immigrants in the 1800s or the millions of various other immigrants in 20th century.

  If you feel the level of differences in basic culture and lifestyle, as well as social norms and expectations of the 1800's Irish and the USA are the same as the cultural differences of Afghans in 2021, you are simply a moron.  I do not mean that as an attack, I think you would have to be a moron to think that.  I do not think you are a moron, so you are either just firing off an answer, or have given it zero critical thought.

oggsmash - I didn't make that claim. It seems like you've leapt from "John made a comparison of A and B" to "John is a moron who says that A and B are identical". 

I don't think that the Irish and Afghans are identical.

The point is that we already have tons of different immigrant experiences here in the U.S. We have 32 million Irish-Americans, 5 million Chinese-Americans, 4 million Indian-Americans, 2 million Vietnamese-Americans, etc. Regardless of how one rates the difference of the hypothetical 2 million Afghan refugees compared to any other large immigrant group, it would still just be one more sample out of the dozens of other immigrant nationalities in the millions. I don't think it's going to show anything fundamental about immigrants overall.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 24, 2021, 11:14:57 AM
John Kim seems to approach a lot of social issues as a particle physicist, i.e. control a few variables to isolate one element, and the results can be used to predict future behavior with a high degree of certainty.

I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I would say the opposite. I would say to take social predictions with a huge grain of salt. The social sciences have always had major problems with reproducibility.

Specifically in this case, oggsmash is arguing that if only we had 2 million Afghan refugees that the fundamental truth would be revealed. I am claiming that the sample wouldn't add any clarity. It would just be one more sample out of dozens, and wouldn't improve any future predictions.

More broadly, I feel that oggsmash has made more specific social predictions than I have.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2021, 12:26:25 PM
John Kim seems to approach a lot of social issues as a particle physicist, i.e. control a few variables to isolate one element, and the results can be used to predict future behavior with a high degree of certainty.

I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I would say the opposite. I would say to take social predictions with a huge grain of salt. The social sciences have always had major problems with reproducibility.

Specifically in this case, oggsmash is arguing that if only we had 2 million Afghan refugees that the fundamental truth would be revealed. I am claiming that the sample wouldn't add any clarity. It would just be one more sample out of dozens, and wouldn't improve any future predictions.

More broadly, I feel that oggsmash has made more specific social predictions than I have.

  I absolutely have.  I also recanted and said its all good and it will work out for the best.  I am sure a culture that embraces fucking 10 year old boys is going to go over extremely well in some circles in the USA, and meet some friction in others, just like  when other people from other cultures had some friction.  I have decided, what's a little friction?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 24, 2021, 01:36:38 PM
Meanwhile, Sleepy Joe continues to demonstrate his adeptness in being the bottom bitch for the Taliban.

Sends the head of the CIA over to fucking beg for extensions on getting people out past August 31st. Taliban: 'LOLnope. Oh yeah, you're not taking any more Afghanis either.'

Jesus. But hey, no more mean tweets right?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: DocJones on August 24, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
The coming Aug 31 deadline might be a problem. :-(

(https://media.patriots.win/post/VVwiFRC8.jpeg)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
The coming Aug 31 deadline might be a problem. :-(

(https://media.patriots.win/post/VVwiFRC8.jpeg)

  I think that might nix my thoughts on getting lots of refugees.  Heck, or even Americans who were living in afghanistan when they knew it was going to change hands....?   In any event, I guess the best way to make sure you have constant war, is to really fuck up ending a looong war so badly, you have no choice....BUT TO DECLARE WAR.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 24, 2021, 02:24:01 PM
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/24/afghanistan-woes-sink-bidens-approval-41-usa-today-suffolk-poll/8244854002/).
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 24, 2021, 04:42:57 PM
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/24/afghanistan-woes-sink-bidens-approval-41-usa-today-suffolk-poll/8244854002/).
I posted a couple days ago about his drop of 7% over the first weekend of the Afghan debacle. (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/biden-s-presidency-all-hail-the-taliban!/msg1184154/#msg1184154) That pulled him from 53% to 46%, but 41% is another 5 points down. That's particularly remarkable for Biden, because his approval rating prior to this was absurdly steady. And that's not just compared to to someone divisive like Trump; compared to Biden, even Obama's ratings were all over the place. Biden's rating just didn't budge, regardless of what was going on. Until now.

Edit: 1% off, fixed
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/24/afghanistan-woes-sink-bidens-approval-41-usa-today-suffolk-poll/8244854002/).
I posted a couple days ago about his drop of 7% over the first weekend of the Afghan debacle. That pulled him from 54% to 47%, but 41% is another 6 points down. That's particularly remarkable for Biden, because his approval rating prior to this was absurdly steady. And that's not just compared to to someone divisive like Trump; compared to Biden, even Obama's ratings were all over the place. Biden's rating just didn't budge, regardless of what was going on. Until now.

  Well....its almost like the people who decide things decided it is time to show someone the back door.   I do not know how anyone can watch that dude try to answer questions about this and not have their confidence shaken just a tad.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: moonsweeper on August 24, 2021, 04:46:59 PM
President Biden's approval rating has dipped sharply over Afghanistan (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/24/afghanistan-woes-sink-bidens-approval-41-usa-today-suffolk-poll/8244854002/).

Well that's what happens when he is setup as the scapegoat for the intelligence agencies and the military-industrial complex.  I'm just curious what other failures they are going to push off on the dementia-ridden placeholder...

I'm guessing the economic crash for sure, not sure about anything else...
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on August 24, 2021, 05:46:42 PM
Well that's what happens when he is setup as the scapegoat for the intelligence agencies and the military-industrial complex.

Yup. The man has borderline no opinions of his own. He is a tired old man. This is the machine trying to create a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Melichor on August 24, 2021, 07:18:47 PM
The people who voted against Trump, while not really voting for Biden, are reaping the consequences of their choice.
Nothing productive accomplished, in spite of controlling the entirety of the government.
A stretched thin and tanking economy.
The pandemic that will never end, shots or no shots.
Freedom being restricted. Being expected to give up liberty for safety....
China Sea.
Border crisis.
Afghan crisis.
Foreign allies upset and watching us waver in indecisive fear.
America is weak on the world stage once again.

I have faith that America will endure, but it's painful to watch at the moment.
The weak are setting up the hard times for the strong to emerge.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 25, 2021, 12:30:39 AM
The people who voted against Trump, while not really voting for Biden, are reaping the consequences of their choice.
Nothing productive accomplished, in spite of controlling the entirety of the government.

You say that like it's a bad thing when the Government produces and accomplishes nothing.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 25, 2021, 07:17:11 AM
The people who voted against Trump, while not really voting for Biden, are reaping the consequences of their choice.
Nothing productive accomplished, in spite of controlling the entirety of the government.

You say that like it's a bad thing when the Government produces and accomplishes nothing.

It is because they use your money (and in this case, people's lives) to achieve that. The state can only use your money against your best interests.


BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 25, 2021, 10:31:23 AM
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 25, 2021, 10:38:44 AM
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 25, 2021, 11:07:28 AM
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?
Are you asking a legitimate question where you don't know the answer, or are you trying to set something up? Because it feels a lot more like the latter.

This is also trivially googable or duckduckgoable. You could go to the Wikipedia page, read the intro, and get a good idea of the justifications.

The initial justification for getting into Afghanistan was terrorism. I made no claims about whether it was a reasonable threat. The reason they stayed for 20 years, seemed to be an attempt to turn it into a friendly state based on Western values, which failed spectacularly.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 25, 2021, 11:09:06 AM
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?

We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 25, 2021, 11:50:38 AM
We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.

I agree with your mindset; retaliation after an attack is the right course of action. But the culprits of 9/11 are not in Afghanistan. This wasn't the first time the US meddled in Middle Eastern affairs; this gave them a permenent excuse, the narrative of which cannot be questioned in spite of its inconsistencies. In the words of the neocons, "a new Pearl Harbor".

What is "nation-building" in this context? Basically indoctrinating/brainwashing the populace so that they won't become a threat?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Lurkndog on August 25, 2021, 12:23:10 PM
What is "nation-building" in this context? Basically indoctrinating/brainwashing the populace so that they won't become a threat?

After toppling the Taliban, the idea was to build up Afghanistan into a modern state that wouldn't be a haven for terrorists.

The problem was that Afghanistan has never been a unified country. Historically it has always been a collection of miserable warlord fiefdoms, set up in isolated pockets of terrain separated by mountains. Whatever central government existed was weak, and its power didn't really extend out into the far corners of the territory.

Our plan was to shore up the central government and build roads to join the isolated pockets into one larger country. But the central government proved to be corrupt and inefficient, and building roads through mountains is no easy task.

We did a lot better job of nation building in Iraq, but Iraq was already much farther along the path to being a modern state when we started.

The poster child for nation-building is, of course, Japan, where we were able to both force a complete ideological break with the Imperial Japan of old, and set them back on their feet economically, so that they became a prosperous modern country, and a strong ally.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 25, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
What is "nation-building" in this context? Basically indoctrinating/brainwashing the populace so that they won't become a threat?

After toppling the Taliban, the idea was to build up Afghanistan into a modern state that wouldn't be a haven for terrorists.

The problem was that Afghanistan has never been a unified country. Historically it has always been a collection of miserable warlord fiefdoms, set up in isolated pockets of terrain separated by mountains. Whatever central government existed was weak, and its power didn't really extend out into the far corners of the territory.

Our plan was to shore up the central government and build roads to join the isolated pockets into one larger country. But the central government proved to be corrupt and inefficient, and building roads through mountains is no easy task.

We did a lot better job of nation building in Iraq, but Iraq was already much farther along the path to being a modern state when we started.

The poster child for nation-building is, of course, Japan, where we were able to both force a complete ideological break with the Imperial Japan of old, and set them back on their feet economically, so that they became a prosperous modern country, and a strong ally.

It is not America's right nor obligation to "build nations" or "ensure the world is safe for democracy", nor can they do it; it's logistically impossible for any country. "Nation building" is nothing more than a euphemism installing a puppet regime after overthrowing the previous one. This is what they did with Japan, Germany (which was partitioned between globalist west and soviet east and erased as a military competitor just as they did with Japan) and many such other countries which did not align with globalism, terrorist or not. They make up excuses like weapons of mass destruction, babies in incubators, the rape of Belgium, and other made up imminent threats to justify an invasion. America aligned with regimes which could qualify as terrorist or international threats just as well; USSR, Condor Plan (Argentina, Chile, Nicaragua, etc.), Zionism, Samuel Doe, African regimes, Plutarco Elías Calles, Batista, etc. so if it were about values or human rights, they wouldn't have done any of that (not to mention human rights violations at home)

If you want to stop having terrorists, don't hang out in the middle east; it's better to just stick to your own territory and let other countries be; this was pretty much the policy of America until Wilson and they did just fine. I know times have changed, but this is just adding problems where there were none. Why was the US in the middle east in the first place?

Besides, it will fail because their islamic culture is inherently incomptible with western values. There can be no distinction between mosque and state (lol), no respect for "diversity", no such thing as free speech, etc. They never went through a protestant reformation the peace of Westphalia or French revolution.

Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 25, 2021, 01:40:28 PM
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?

We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.

The invasion of Afghanistan had 88% public approval at the time. Which is about as close to unanimous as our nation gets.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 25, 2021, 02:48:39 PM
We did a lot better job of nation building in Iraq, but Iraq was already much farther along the path to being a modern state when we started.

The poster child for nation-building is, of course, Japan, where we were able to both force a complete ideological break with the Imperial Japan of old, and set them back on their feet economically, so that they became a prosperous modern country, and a strong ally.

Japan was already a stable, unified, and modern country in 1945 - so I think calling it "nation building" is a misnomer. To the extent that we changed the Japanese ideology, it was from a far more massive effort than in Afghanistan - with hundreds of thousands of troops and a military occupation that continues to this day. I also think it is crucial that the Japanese people recognized that the Allies had responded to their military aggression. They learned a lesson for themselves from external consequences.

Further, we left Emperor Hirohito in place along with the most of the Japanese government, and worked with them to implement change. In the case of Afghanistan, we took on the harder task of completely rebuilding a new government from scratch.

I think it was possible for us to have had a form of success in Afghanistan, but I think it was mishandled.


It is not America's right nor obligation to "build nations" or "ensure the world is safe for democracy", nor can they do it; it's logistically impossible for any country. "Nation building" is nothing more than a euphemism installing a puppet regime after overthrowing the previous one. This is what they did with Japan, Germany (which was partitioned between globalist west and soviet east and erased as a military competitor just as they did with Japan) and many such other countries which did not align with globalism, terrorist or not. They make up excuses like weapons of mass destruction, babies in incubators, the rape of Belgium, and other made up imminent threats to justify an invasion.

I also think that most of America's wars have been excuses rather than defensive. However, in the case of some wars, the excuses are much closer to valid justification. WWII, the Korean War, the First Gulf War, and the invasion of Afghanistan were all direct responses to aggression on the part of other countries. That doesn't mean we weren't biased or fault, but far less so than our opposition.


Besides, it will fail because their islamic culture is inherently incomptible with western values. There can be no distinction between mosque and state (lol), no respect for "diversity", no such thing as free speech, etc. They never went through a protestant reformation the peace of Westphalia or French revolution.

Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong.

While the latter is true, Korea and Japan also never went through a Protestant Reformation, Pease of Westphalia, or French Revolution. Especially, I don't think that Imperial Japan in 1944 was any closer to Western values than 2001 Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 25, 2021, 02:55:51 PM
  The first gulf war was IMO not justified.  Kuwait got their hand slapped for STEALING from Iraq.  The USA stepped in on behalf of its paymasters.  Not justified IMO.   I would also say there NEVER should have been (and I said this to everyone who would listen in 2001 and on) an invasion of Afghanistan, a massively punitive firestorm, sure, but invasion is ALWAYS occupation, and ALWAYS a fucking mess.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 25, 2021, 02:59:20 PM
BTW, can anybody tell me why the US is in Afghanistan? What is the official explanation?
Terrorism, then nation building.

What do you mean by this? Is there a reasonable threat coming from Afghanistan which they're trying to quell?

We went into Afghanistan in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The Taliban were supporting and harboring Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks.

At the time, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan - as did most of the U.N. and most of the American populace. I think one of the few justifications of war is in response to deter aggression. If someone makes an attack like 9/11, then responsible nations should rise up and punish that aggressor. Ideally, this punishment should be swift and clear, which shows other nations that there is no gain in making such moves.

Sadly, the later goals of nation-building have muddled that deterrent - along with the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. Deterrent works best if other nations understand that (1) if we attack another country, we will be punished; (2) if we don't attack another country, we will not be punished.

The invasion of Afghanistan had 88% public approval at the time. Which is about as close to unanimous as our nation gets.

  Well, emotional decisions are often poor decisions. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 25, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
  Comparing Japan and Korea with Islam is perhaps not bad faith, but it is not in any way an apples to oranges comparison.   Read the Koran, and it will become a good bit clearer about how the west views a civilization should run, and how Islam views it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 25, 2021, 03:18:49 PM
Japan was already a stable, unified, and modern country in 1945 - so I think calling it "nation building" is a misnomer. To the extent that we changed the Japanese ideology, it was from a far more massive effort than in Afghanistan - with hundreds of thousands of troops and a military occupation that continues to this day. I also think it is crucial that the Japanese people recognized that the Allies had responded to their military aggression. They learned a lesson for themselves from external consequences.

Further, we left Emperor Hirohito in place along with the most of the Japanese government, and worked with them to implement change. In the case of Afghanistan, we took on the harder task of completely rebuilding a new government from scratch.

I think it was possible for us to have had a form of success in Afghanistan, but I think it was mishandled.


I also think that most of America's wars have been excuses rather than defensive. However, in the case of some wars, the excuses are much closer to valid justification. WWII, the Korean War, the First Gulf War, and the invasion of Afghanistan were all direct responses to aggression on the part of other countries. That doesn't mean we weren't biased or fault, but far less so than our opposition.


While the latter is true, Korea and Japan also never went through a Protestant Reformation, Pease of Westphalia, or French Revolution. Especially, I don't think that Imperial Japan in 1944 was any closer to Western values than 2001 Afghanistan.

You're right, they're not islamic either; you can't compare East Asia with the Middle East. Asian societies have traditionally been very rigid when it comes to societal organization, and this is still reflected to this day, particularly in China and Japan. China is in deep corporate socialism and party technocracy. Japan is far better, but they're still rigid; social cohesion, meeting expectations, moderation and abiding by norms are still some of their values to this day. I don't share them, but I respect their culture. I don't know about Korea, I guess they are an exception indeed since they've become very "progressive". The point is that Japan was inherently hierarchical and thus very stable, apart from the fact that they were nuked twice and left alone against the world. Islamic societies are far from being as orderly as Asian societies. Their whole religion is built upon expansionism; their leader was a warlord and their logic is convert or die. Polls show that even in the West muslims support attacks or censorship against those who blaspheme against Allah or Mohammed.

How can Americans expect to erase centuries of that culture and impose one that's totally foreign to them? Their best attempt would be to send financial aid to whatever party or regime cooperates with them. I guess it'd be cheaper and more convenient.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 25, 2021, 04:42:39 PM
Greetings!

Well, the "West" has become so thoroughly corrupt, weak, and feminized, it isn't a surprise that we can't handle a war with any Muslim nation. Afghanistan isn't anything special, nor is the constantly-heralded fanaticism of the Jihadists.

Ghengis Khan annihilated Afghanistan, the Khorasan region of Persia, and the entire Kwarazm Empire. The Mongols annihilated anywhere from 50% to 90% of the entire population. In Kwarazm, it was typically about 50%. In Khorasan, it was 90%. Years after the Mongol conquest, there were still dozens of cities, towns, and villages that were in blasted, smoking ruins. Silent graveyards, attended to by the occasional flock of ravens or a lamenting shepherd. Islam's mightiest armies were slaughtered easily. Hundreds of thousands of Muslim women were packed off in chains as slaves. The greatest Muslim nobles and Sultans had molten silver poured down their throats. The Caliph of Baghdad was forced to watch as his entire family--his wives and daughters--were plundered and executed. His sons beheaded or impaled on pikes, before he, too, was swiftly beheaded. The city of Baghdad was the greatest city in the Muslim world at the time--and it was utterly annihilated. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims--perhaps a million--were put to the sword. Hundreds of thousands more, like many before them, were marched off in chains.

The feared Assassins? The guys that gave the Christian Crusaders so many problems for decades? The Mongols had them all hunted down and slaughtered in less than two years. Every one of the Assassin's great fortresses were besieged, and everyone inside was slaughtered without mercy. The Mongols sent special detachments of cavalry troops to track the Assassins down, wherever they sought to flee, and killed them all. Anyone that harboured or helped the Assassins were also executed.

A small advancing Mongol Army approached the mighty city of Damascus--yeah, the Damascus that resisted the Crusaders forever--and the whole population, the nobles, the women, the craftsmen, the merchants, the Imams, all got on their knees in the dirt, and surrendered without a fight. They begged the Mongols not to slaughter them, and promised to serve them with absolute loyalty. The Muslim armies, their fanaticism, their Imams, their Jihadists--were nothing. They were reduced to ashes and groveling in the dirt like animals. From high to low, they all begged to serve their Mongolian masters.

The Muslims knew with absolute certainty that any wavering, any resistance, would bring their swift and absolute destruction.

The Muslims were so dedicated to their Mongolian Masters that they proceeded to volunteer to serve in the Mongol armies, giving their skills as engineers, merchants, administrators, and warriors, to the Mongol Empire. Of course, the most beautiful Muslim women were also eager to embrace their Mongolian Masters as well. The entire Muslim civilization experienced an existential crisis--and when faced with utter helplessness and annihilation--they eagerly chose submission and obedience to the Mongol Empire.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 25, 2021, 05:54:14 PM
  The first gulf war was IMO not justified.  Kuwait got their hand slapped for STEALING from Iraq.  The USA stepped in on behalf of its paymasters.  Not justified IMO.   I would also say there NEVER should have been (and I said this to everyone who would listen in 2001 and on) an invasion of Afghanistan, a massively punitive firestorm, sure, but invasion is ALWAYS occupation, and ALWAYS a fucking mess.

Being invaded and occupied is not a slap on the hand. It is a huge escalation. And I think it's a good thing if the international community doesn't tolerate military invasion as a proper response to economic disputes.

Further, if a country does start one-sided military action like a pre-emptive invasion, then I think it's a good thing for other countries to strike back and deter that behavior. I'm not saying Kuwait didn't steal (-- I have no opinion on that. The point is that regardless, the answer shouldn't be invasion and conquest of their whole country -- and that such escalation shouldn't be tolerated.


  Comparing Japan and Korea with Islam is perhaps not bad faith, but it is not in any way an apples to oranges comparison.   Read the Koran, and it will become a good bit clearer about how the west views a civilization should run, and how Islam views it.

I certainly agree that the Koran has a view very different from how the West views civilization. But I am claiming that Shinto and Imperial Japan also have a very different view of civilization. Many Westerners are introduced to modern romanticized portrayals of honorable samurai and clever ninja, but the actual historical reality of the Japanese is much less compatible with modern Western values.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 26, 2021, 08:00:33 AM
  The first gulf war was IMO not justified.  Kuwait got their hand slapped for STEALING from Iraq.  The USA stepped in on behalf of its paymasters.  Not justified IMO.   I would also say there NEVER should have been (and I said this to everyone who would listen in 2001 and on) an invasion of Afghanistan, a massively punitive firestorm, sure, but invasion is ALWAYS occupation, and ALWAYS a fucking mess.

Being invaded and occupied is not a slap on the hand. It is a huge escalation. And I think it's a good thing if the international community doesn't tolerate military invasion as a proper response to economic disputes.

Further, if a country does start one-sided military action like a pre-emptive invasion, then I think it's a good thing for other countries to strike back and deter that behavior. I'm not saying Kuwait didn't steal (-- I have no opinion on that. The point is that regardless, the answer shouldn't be invasion and conquest of their whole country -- and that such escalation shouldn't be tolerated.


  Comparing Japan and Korea with Islam is perhaps not bad faith, but it is not in any way an apples to oranges comparison.   Read the Koran, and it will become a good bit clearer about how the west views a civilization should run, and how Islam views it.

I certainly agree that the Koran has a view very different from how the West views civilization. But I am claiming that Shinto and Imperial Japan also have a very different view of civilization. Many Westerners are introduced to modern romanticized portrayals of honorable samurai and clever ninja, but the actual historical reality of the Japanese is much less compatible with modern Western values.

     There is no opinion to be had about Kuwait stealing, it is simple objective fact.  If Mexico started angle drilling US oil fields, what do you think the USA would do about that?   Fact is, Kuwait paid us a great deal of money and oil, and we were their stooge.   We are not and should not be the world police, ESPECIALLY since we spent years supporting Iraq (as did Kuwait) for fighting off Iran. 

   Regarding Imperial Japan, the samurai was Loooong phased out and is one of the things that allowed industrial Japan to explode out from prior feudalism.  I have a good bit of historical knowledge about Japan (Korea not so much) and am fully aware of how things ran there, but it is still not as 'off' from the basics of western civilization as Islam.  Christians were able to enter and convert Japanese people to Christianity as early as the 1500's... you think that flew in the caliphate? You think that would fly now in Islamic fundamentalist countries?  Again, read the Koran, or more history because I think you are drawing conclusion lacking a track record of behavior.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Lurkndog on August 26, 2021, 12:13:59 PM
We did a lot better job of nation building in Iraq, but Iraq was already much farther along the path to being a modern state when we started.

The poster child for nation-building is, of course, Japan, where we were able to both force a complete ideological break with the Imperial Japan of old, and set them back on their feet economically, so that they became a prosperous modern country, and a strong ally.

Japan was already a stable, unified, and modern country in 1945 - so I think calling it "nation building" is a misnomer.

Have you seen postwar images of Japan?

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/the-fall-of-imperial-japan-in-pictures-1945/

Hiroshima and Nagasaki had been nuked, and Tokyo and other major cities had been burned to the ground by the firebombing campaign that preceded the nukes. Bridges, railways and harbors were heavily damaged or destroyed. It is completely accurate to say that Japan was rebuilt after the war.

The Humphrey Bogart movie Tokyo Joe (1949) is a Casablanca knockoff that has some really interesting location footage of then-contemporary Japan. There are images that are instantly reminiscent of modern Japan, like the canal lined with white concrete blocks that every anime character visits after school. But a lot of it looks very different, very third world. And the destruction from the war is still very apparent in aerial shots.

https://www.crackle.com/watch/8242
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jhkim on August 26, 2021, 01:03:48 PM
I certainly agree that the Koran has a view very different from how the West views civilization. But I am claiming that Shinto and Imperial Japan also have a very different view of civilization. Many Westerners are introduced to modern romanticized portrayals of honorable samurai and clever ninja, but the actual historical reality of the Japanese is much less compatible with modern Western values.

   Regarding Imperial Japan, the samurai was Loooong phased out and is one of the things that allowed industrial Japan to explode out from prior feudalism.  I have a good bit of historical knowledge about Japan (Korea not so much) and am fully aware of how things ran there, but it is still not as 'off' from the basics of western civilization as Islam.  Christians were able to enter and convert Japanese people to Christianity as early as the 1500's... you think that flew in the caliphate? You think that would fly now in Islamic fundamentalist countries?  Again, read the Koran, or more history because I think you are drawing conclusion lacking a track record of behavior.

You're implying religious freedom as a standard in Japan. I quote from Wikipedia here because it was easy to search, and I've read the same from multiple other sources:

Quote
Under Hideyoshi and the succeeding Tokugawa shogunate, Catholic Christianity was repressed and adherents were persecuted. During Toyotomi rule especially, foreign missionaries were killed in Japan, some by (Japanese-style) crucifixion; most famously, the twenty-six martyrs of Japan were tortured and crucified on crosses outside Nagasaki to discourage Christianity in 1597. (Hideyoshi nonetheless showed favor to daimyō who had converted, such as Konishi Yukinaga.) Following a brief respite as Tokugawa Ieyasu rose to power and pursued trade with the Portuguese powers, there were further persecutions and martyrdoms in 1613, 1630, 1632 and 1634.

By this point, after the Shimabara Rebellion, the remaining Christians had been forced to publicly renounce their faith. Many continued practicing Christianity in secret, in modern times becoming known as the "hidden Christians" (隠れキリシタン, kakure kirishitan). These secret believers would often conceal Christian iconography in closed shrines, lanterns or inconspicuous parts of buildings. For example, Himeji Castle has a Christian cross on one of its 17th-century roof tiles, in place of a mon, indicating that one of its occupants was a secret Christian.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan#Persecution_under_the_Shogunate

Imperial Japan under Meiji from 1871 to 1945 did permit Christians as part of its effort at modernization, but I would say that was more a tactical move to facilitate modernization rather than a philosophical embrace of religious freedom -- much like how several Islamic empires like the Ottomans permitted Christian minorities for long periods but taxed them at a higher rate than Muslims.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 26, 2021, 03:45:02 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/afghanistan-kabul-airport-explosion-pentagon-confirms/

Not content to watch Americans and allied Afghanis flee in a panic, suicide bombers felt it was necessary to blow them up.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2021, 03:54:02 PM
To be fair to suicide bombers, there's really no point to killing yourself if you're not taking anyone else with you.  If you let all of your targets leave, then are you really even a suicide bomber anymore?  It's not easy to abandon an identity that you've built the rest of your very short life around. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 26, 2021, 03:54:50 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/26/us-officials-provided-taliban-with-names-of-americans-afghan-allies-to-evacuate-506957

What the fucking fuck.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 26, 2021, 04:03:54 PM
I certainly agree that the Koran has a view very different from how the West views civilization. But I am claiming that Shinto and Imperial Japan also have a very different view of civilization. Many Westerners are introduced to modern romanticized portrayals of honorable samurai and clever ninja, but the actual historical reality of the Japanese is much less compatible with modern Western values.

   Regarding Imperial Japan, the samurai was Loooong phased out and is one of the things that allowed industrial Japan to explode out from prior feudalism.  I have a good bit of historical knowledge about Japan (Korea not so much) and am fully aware of how things ran there, but it is still not as 'off' from the basics of western civilization as Islam.  Christians were able to enter and convert Japanese people to Christianity as early as the 1500's... you think that flew in the caliphate? You think that would fly now in Islamic fundamentalist countries?  Again, read the Koran, or more history because I think you are drawing conclusion lacking a track record of behavior.

You're implying religious freedom as a standard in Japan. I quote from Wikipedia here because it was easy to search, and I've read the same from multiple other sources:

Quote
Under Hideyoshi and the succeeding Tokugawa shogunate, Catholic Christianity was repressed and adherents were persecuted. During Toyotomi rule especially, foreign missionaries were killed in Japan, some by (Japanese-style) crucifixion; most famously, the twenty-six martyrs of Japan were tortured and crucified on crosses outside Nagasaki to discourage Christianity in 1597. (Hideyoshi nonetheless showed favor to daimyō who had converted, such as Konishi Yukinaga.) Following a brief respite as Tokugawa Ieyasu rose to power and pursued trade with the Portuguese powers, there were further persecutions and martyrdoms in 1613, 1630, 1632 and 1634.

By this point, after the Shimabara Rebellion, the remaining Christians had been forced to publicly renounce their faith. Many continued practicing Christianity in secret, in modern times becoming known as the "hidden Christians" (隠れキリシタン, kakure kirishitan). These secret believers would often conceal Christian iconography in closed shrines, lanterns or inconspicuous parts of buildings. For example, Himeji Castle has a Christian cross on one of its 17th-century roof tiles, in place of a mon, indicating that one of its occupants was a secret Christian.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan#Persecution_under_the_Shogunate

Imperial Japan under Meiji from 1871 to 1945 did permit Christians as part of its effort at modernization, but I would say that was more a tactical move to facilitate modernization rather than a philosophical embrace of religious freedom -- much like how several Islamic empires like the Ottomans permitted Christian minorities for long periods but taxed them at a higher rate than Muslims.

  I am not implying any such thing.  The tokugawa shogonate killed christians as a measure to unify,a political stategy,  but in so far as faith, Shintoism nor buddhism had anything to do with killing other religions.  It was a political tool.  Islam, is both religion and politic, I would keep the Ottomans out of your mouth, as they also castrated christian boys and used them as slave soldiers. that is if you are making an attempt to demonstrate tolerance.   In Japan since politics and religion were not as intertwined, it was fairly easy to have what we have in modern Japan, while in Iran they stone women to death.

   Edited to add:  You just *might* want to factor current events (suicide bombers) into your line of reasoning.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 26, 2021, 04:34:13 PM
To be fair to suicide bombers, there's really no point to killing yourself if you're not taking anyone else with you.  If you let all of your targets leave, then are you really even a suicide bomber anymore?  It's not easy to abandon an identity that you've built the rest of your very short life around.

  This could come off better to me as a joke if Americans were not getting killed by bombs as you make it.  I normally do not mind a taste of gallows humor, but this is pretty low class.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2021, 05:40:07 PM
To be fair to suicide bombers, there's really no point to killing yourself if you're not taking anyone else with you.  If you let all of your targets leave, then are you really even a suicide bomber anymore?  It's not easy to abandon an identity that you've built the rest of your very short life around.

  This could come off better to me as a joke if Americans were not getting killed by bombs as you make it.  I normally do not mind a taste of gallows humor, but this is pretty low class.

I'm sorry that I have offended you, and I agree that a joke about the death of scores of people including more than a dozen US military is not appropriate.  I wouldn't qualify my comment as a joke - or even a feeble attempt at such, rather a flippant response to the following:

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/afghanistan-kabul-airport-explosion-pentagon-confirms/

Not content to watch Americans and allied Afghanis flee in a panic, suicide bombers felt it was necessary to blow them up.

Having been aware of the entire war in Afghanistan I felt that Ratman's comment was oblivious.  Of course ISIS isn't content to watch American and allied Afghanis flee in a panic.  To think otherwise would be... incredibly naive.  There were warnings several days ago that this was going to happen.  And this happened.  The sad fact is, you are never going to be able to stop someone that is willing to sacrifice their life from killing others - all you can do is make it much harder.  Obviously not having access to explosives would have made this much harder.  Like keeping civilians and students from having access to semi-automatic weapons would have reduced the casualty counts in every mass-shooting in this country. 

So feel free to hold that comment against me - it certainly wasn't well thought out - but it is just weariness about a lot of preventable deaths - not preventable NOW but preventable if we had chosen other actions at other times.  This was a slow-motion train wreck, and of course it was always going to end this way.  Why feign surprise? 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 26, 2021, 05:46:15 PM
To be fair to suicide bombers, there's really no point to killing yourself if you're not taking anyone else with you.  If you let all of your targets leave, then are you really even a suicide bomber anymore?  It's not easy to abandon an identity that you've built the rest of your very short life around.

  This could come off better to me as a joke if Americans were not getting killed by bombs as you make it.  I normally do not mind a taste of gallows humor, but this is pretty low class.

I'm sorry that I have offended you, and I agree that a joke about the death of scores of people including more than a dozen US military is not appropriate.  I wouldn't qualify my comment as a joke - or even a feeble attempt at such, rather a flippant response to the following:

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/afghanistan-kabul-airport-explosion-pentagon-confirms/

Not content to watch Americans and allied Afghanis flee in a panic, suicide bombers felt it was necessary to blow them up.

Having been aware of the entire war in Afghanistan I felt that Ratman's comment was oblivious.  Of course ISIS isn't content to watch American and allied Afghanis flee in a panic.  To think otherwise would be... incredibly naive.  There were warnings several days ago that this was going to happen.  And this happened.  The sad fact is, you are never going to be able to stop someone that is willing to sacrifice their life from killing others - all you can do is make it much harder.  Obviously not having access to explosives would have made this much harder.  Like keeping civilians and students from having access to semi-automatic weapons would have reduced the casualty counts in every mass-shooting in this country. 

So feel free to hold that comment against me - it certainly wasn't well thought out - but it is just weariness about a lot of preventable deaths - not preventable NOW but preventable if we had chosen other actions at other times.  This was a slow-motion train wreck, and of course it was always going to end this way.  Why feign surprise?

  I do not feign surprise and I was one of the few people who was strongly against any invasion/boots on ground in afghanistan for 20 years.  I just think the timing is not the best, so You did not offend me, anymore than me watching a dog eat his own shit would offend me.   His actions I would call a bit low class, just as I classified yours.   But I would still pet him.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 26, 2021, 09:26:32 PM
To be fair to suicide bombers, there's really no point to killing yourself if you're not taking anyone else with you.  If you let all of your targets leave, then are you really even a suicide bomber anymore?  It's not easy to abandon an identity that you've built the rest of your very short life around.

  This could come off better to me as a joke if Americans were not getting killed by bombs as you make it.  I normally do not mind a taste of gallows humor, but this is pretty low class.

Greetings!

Damn straight, my friend. US Marines have been killed, and DeadDMwalking wants to "be fair to the suicide bombers" and laugh.

Low-class indeed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 27, 2021, 12:51:53 AM
To be fair to suicide bombers, there's really no point to killing yourself if you're not taking anyone else with you.  If you let all of your targets leave, then are you really even a suicide bomber anymore?  It's not easy to abandon an identity that you've built the rest of your very short life around.

  This could come off better to me as a joke if Americans were not getting killed by bombs as you make it.  I normally do not mind a taste of gallows humor, but this is pretty low class.

I'm sorry that I have offended you, and I agree that a joke about the death of scores of people including more than a dozen US military is not appropriate.  I wouldn't qualify my comment as a joke - or even a feeble attempt at such, rather a flippant response to the following:

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/afghanistan-kabul-airport-explosion-pentagon-confirms/

Not content to watch Americans and allied Afghanis flee in a panic, suicide bombers felt it was necessary to blow them up.

Having been aware of the entire war in Afghanistan I felt that Ratman's comment was oblivious.  Of course ISIS isn't content to watch American and allied Afghanis flee in a panic.  To think otherwise would be... incredibly naive.  There were warnings several days ago that this was going to happen.  And this happened.  The sad fact is, you are never going to be able to stop someone that is willing to sacrifice their life from killing others - all you can do is make it much harder.  Obviously not having access to explosives would have made this much harder.  Like keeping civilians and students from having access to semi-automatic weapons would have reduced the casualty counts in every mass-shooting in this country. 

So feel free to hold that comment against me - it certainly wasn't well thought out - but it is just weariness about a lot of preventable deaths - not preventable NOW but preventable if we had chosen other actions at other times.  This was a slow-motion train wreck, and of course it was always going to end this way.  Why feign surprise?

I wasn't oblivious. Just weary, like you, and making a grim joke about it. Of course it's horrible, the whole situation is horrible.
The question is, could this have gone another way? Biden's advisors are frothing at the mouth about how he ignored their withdrawl plans and advice, and did... whatever the fuck this thing he's doing now.

https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/afghan-war-vet-i-will-never-forgive-my-country-for-this-we-must-save-the-people-who-saved-me-118815813529
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Willmark on August 28, 2021, 09:25:37 AM

The question is, could this have gone another way? Biden's advisors are frothing at the mouth about how he ignored their withdrawl plans and advice, and did... whatever the fuck this thing he's doing now.
As to your first question? The withdrawal? I sure hope it could have because if not?

As to the second? You meant aside from Uncle Joe’s daily naps and early bed times? One reason I didn’t vote for either trump or him: their ages and the accompanying questions of cognitive functioning of a man near 80.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 30, 2021, 08:29:43 AM
Jesus Christ. Reports coming in that Biden's drone strike hit the house of an Afghani interpreter and his family, killed them all including six kids. Some 'mastermind'.

Normally I'd be suspicious but holy fuck, the Pederast In Chief is out to lunch and it's clear the military leaders would rather chase 'white rage' and make sure their diversity quotas are filled.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 30, 2021, 10:49:55 AM
Jesus Christ. Reports coming in that Biden's drone strike hit the house of an Afghani interpreter and his family, killed them all including six kids. Some 'mastermind'.

Normally I'd be suspicious but holy fuck, the Pederast In Chief is out to lunch and it's clear the military leaders would rather chase 'white rage' and make sure their diversity quotas are filled.

Maybe it's incompetence instead of malice, but a part of me can't shake the suspicion that this is all part of some crazy plan, because the alternative is that our current administration is that incompetent.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 30, 2021, 11:59:58 AM
Jesus Christ. Reports coming in that Biden's drone strike hit the house of an Afghani interpreter and his family, killed them all including six kids. Some 'mastermind'.

Normally I'd be suspicious but holy fuck, the Pederast In Chief is out to lunch and it's clear the military leaders would rather chase 'white rage' and make sure their diversity quotas are filled.

Maybe it's incompetence instead of malice, but a part of me can't shake the suspicion that this is all part of some crazy plan, because the alternative is that our current administration is that incompetent.
You really have to hope there is some plan, even if it's evil and awful. Because otherwise, holy shit, we let these people set policy?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 30, 2021, 03:30:59 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/AD49/production/_114016344_x_kamala_meme_misleading.jpg)

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on August 30, 2021, 03:36:00 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/AD49/production/_114016344_x_kamala_meme_misleading.jpg)

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust
I haven't gotten the impression that the media is particularly fond of Harris.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 30, 2021, 03:47:30 PM
Probably because she's a rare bird: a politician with a Charisma score so low even the media can't cover it up.

Seriously. Watching her makes me long for the folksy, down-home charm of Hillary Clinton. That's how bad she is.

I've seen some amusing speculation that even Harris doesn't want to inherit this clusterfuck, hence why she's been staying away from the White House. There's also the internal power struggle dynamic, though who's on top in that battle is up in the air.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 30, 2021, 04:42:16 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

I mean, she is both of India heritage and African heritage. And as the U.S. uses the "one drop" rule for African American I am not sure what the issue is? It's not mutually exclusive to be both.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 30, 2021, 05:35:29 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

I mean, she is both of India heritage and African heritage. And as the U.S. uses the "one drop" rule for African American I am not sure what the issue is? It's not mutually exclusive to be both.
We don't use the 'one drop' rule for anything, bigot.

I don't rule out that there's some liberal monkey who thinks that way, but there are no enforceable U.S. laws that utilize it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shasarak on August 30, 2021, 05:38:49 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

I mean, she is both of India heritage and African heritage. And as the U.S. uses the "one drop" rule for African American I am not sure what the issue is? It's not mutually exclusive to be both.
We don't use the 'one drop' rule for anything, bigot.

I don't rule out that there's some liberal monkey who thinks that way, but there are no enforceable U.S. laws that utilize it.

Everyone is from Africa.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 30, 2021, 06:05:55 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/kamala-harris-believed-joe-bidens-accusers-until-she-didnt/

Harris is willing to entertain accusations of sexual abuse for political gain, and she's willing to ignore accusations of sexual abuse for political gain.

She is scummier than a stagnant pond. Her abrasive, annoying personality is just the cherry on the shit sundae.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Trond on August 30, 2021, 08:26:15 PM
(https://i.redd.it/6iflyxlwgjk71.jpg)

This has to be one of the most brain-dead "hot takes" I have ever seen. Both my wife and I are immigrants to the US and we both feel that the left has been driving us to the right, partly by incessant left-wing hyping from the mass media that started to resemble North Korean propaganda. 

Also notice the use of the word "ecosystem" as an attempt at sounding eloquent.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 30, 2021, 08:41:48 PM
(https://i.redd.it/6iflyxlwgjk71.jpg)

This has to be one of the most brain-dead "hot takes" I have ever seen. Both my wife and I are immigrants to the US and we both feel that the left has been driving us to the right, partly by incessant left-wing hyping from the mass media that started to resemble North Korean propaganda. 

Also notice the use of the word "ecosystem" as an attempt at sounding eloquent.

  I can tell you why they are worse for Biden than Trump, Trump is actively fighting them and has to operate with zero support from them.  Biden, completely, and utterly relies on their support to look in any way credible.    Remove their cover for him, and the reality is pretty fucking grim.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 30, 2021, 09:30:24 PM
  I can tell you why they are worse for Biden than Trump, Trump is actively fighting them and has to operate with zero support from them.  Biden, completely, and utterly relies on their support to look in any way credible.    Remove their cover for him, and the reality is pretty fucking grim.
An interesting point of view. Not entirely sure I buy that angle (as the media organs will about-face if Biden ever manages to stop his free fall, as improbable as that may seem), but I can agree that Sleepy Joe is very much propped up by them to a degree.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Eirikrautha on August 30, 2021, 10:02:35 PM
(https://i.redd.it/6iflyxlwgjk71.jpg)

This has to be one of the most brain-dead "hot takes" I have ever seen. Both my wife and I are immigrants to the US and we both feel that the left has been driving us to the right, partly by incessant left-wing hyping from the mass media that started to resemble North Korean propaganda. 

Also notice the use of the word "ecosystem" as an attempt at sounding eloquent.
Honestly, when someone lives in a headspace this divorced from reality, there's no talking them down.  We are at the point where someone would argue that the sky is "ackshully" green, just because Trump said it was blue, and truly believe it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 31, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
Greetings!

Yeah, Jonathan Chait is a total fucktard moron. The Democrats don't have a media ecosystem that supports them?

Just think abut how the media treated President Trump compared to how the media treats Biden.

The NYT even admitted to purposely running anti-trump, negative Trump articles every fucking day.

CNN, MSNBC, ALL of the "Late Night" shows--all of them, running negative articles, negative editorials, negative news reporting, negative "Comedy Skits" on and on, every fucking day. The Atlantic, the NYT, the LA Times, Salon, GQ, Vogue, Rolling Stone. Every goddamn one of them always being negative towards President Trump.

Fuck them. They can all burn in Napalm. Think about not just what the media actually reports and says about Biden--but also by what they don't do or say about Biden. No endless, daily hit pieces on Biden always searching for the drop of toothpaste to critique him on. Likewise, imagine the avalanche of criticism that could be spotlighted on fucking Kamala, each and every day. Three months of that kind of treatment against her that President Trump got would have her sobbing and fleeing to retire in a mental asylum somewhere fast.

Instead, the media routinely sucks on Kamala's ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on August 31, 2021, 06:46:41 AM
  I can tell you why they are worse for Biden than Trump, Trump is actively fighting them and has to operate with zero support from them.  Biden, completely, and utterly relies on their support to look in any way credible.    Remove their cover for him, and the reality is pretty fucking grim.
An interesting point of view. Not entirely sure I buy that angle (as the media organs will about-face if Biden ever manages to stop his free fall, as improbable as that may seem), but I can agree that Sleepy Joe is very much propped up by them to a degree.

   I am not saying the media abandoned him.  I am saying they just did the least bit of reporting as to reality.  I agree 100 percent they will cover for him as much as they can (or are told).  His fuck ups just went past what they can cover up.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SonTodoGato on August 31, 2021, 09:02:43 AM
Greetings!

Yeah, Jonathan Chait is a total fucktard moron. The Democrats don't have a media ecosystem that supports them?

Just think abut how the media treated President Trump compared to how the media treats Biden.

The NYT even admitted to purposely running anti-trump, negative Trump articles every fucking day.

CNN, MSNBC, ALL of the "Late Night" shows--all of them, running negative articles, negative editorials, negative news reporting, negative "Comedy Skits" on and on, every fucking day. The Atlantic, the NYT, the LA Times, Salon, GQ, Vogue, Rolling Stone. Every goddamn one of them always being negative towards President Trump.

Fuck them. They can all burn in Napalm. Think about not just what the media actually reports and says about Biden--but also by what they don't do or say about Biden. No endless, daily hit pieces on Biden always searching for the drop of toothpaste to critique him on. Likewise, imagine the avalanche of criticism that could be spotlighted on fucking Kamala, each and every day. Three months of that kind of treatment against her that President Trump got would have her sobbing and fleeing to retire in a mental asylum somewhere fast.

Instead, the media routinely sucks on Kamala's ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You forgot "Scientific" "American"
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 31, 2021, 09:29:23 AM
Greetings!

Yeah, Jonathan Chait is a total fucktard moron. The Democrats don't have a media ecosystem that supports them?

Just think abut how the media treated President Trump compared to how the media treats Biden.

The NYT even admitted to purposely running anti-trump, negative Trump articles every fucking day.

CNN, MSNBC, ALL of the "Late Night" shows--all of them, running negative articles, negative editorials, negative news reporting, negative "Comedy Skits" on and on, every fucking day. The Atlantic, the NYT, the LA Times, Salon, GQ, Vogue, Rolling Stone. Every goddamn one of them always being negative towards President Trump.

Fuck them. They can all burn in Napalm. Think about not just what the media actually reports and says about Biden--but also by what they don't do or say about Biden. No endless, daily hit pieces on Biden always searching for the drop of toothpaste to critique him on. Likewise, imagine the avalanche of criticism that could be spotlighted on fucking Kamala, each and every day. Three months of that kind of treatment against her that President Trump got would have her sobbing and fleeing to retire in a mental asylum somewhere fast.

Instead, the media routinely sucks on Kamala's ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I admit, the silver lining is watching these morons burn the last shreds of their credibility trying to prop up a senile old hair-sniffing plagiarist who was never more than a C-grade politician at best, and a straight up whore whose political fortunes were based solely on who she could suck off between her cackling fits and consigning minorities to extended prison terms.

Man, it's like sunk cost fallacy playing out in real time.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 31, 2021, 03:49:58 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

I mean, she is both of India heritage and African heritage. And as the U.S. uses the "one drop" rule for African American I am not sure what the issue is? It's not mutually exclusive to be both.
We don't use the 'one drop' rule for anything, bigot.

We literally do, moron. I didn't invent that standard and it's no longer codified but it remains the cultural standard. The African American community adopted that standard. I suspect YOU adopted it too, unless you're claiming President Obama was not African American? It's not a literal "one drop" by the way that's just the old common parlance. It's more complicated than that, but unquestionably Kamala Harris is in fact considered both African American and a person of India decent.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 31, 2021, 03:56:52 PM

We literally do, moron. I didn't invent that standard and it's no longer codified but it remains the cultural standard. The African American community adopted that standard. I suspect YOU adopted it too, unless you're claiming President Obama was not African American? It's not a literal "one drop" by the way that's just the old common parlance. It's more complicated than that, but unquestionably Kamala Harris is in fact considered both African American and a person of India decent.
To be fair, you have to go both ways. Her Irish ancestry means Kamala Harris is also a cis-gendered middle aged white woman, aka a Karen.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 31, 2021, 04:21:35 PM

We literally do, moron. I didn't invent that standard and it's no longer codified but it remains the cultural standard. The African American community adopted that standard. I suspect YOU adopted it too, unless you're claiming President Obama was not African American? It's not a literal "one drop" by the way that's just the old common parlance. It's more complicated than that, but unquestionably Kamala Harris is in fact considered both African American and a person of India decent.
To be fair, you have to go both ways. Her Irish ancestry means Kamala Harris is also a cis-gendered middle aged white woman, aka a Karen.

She hasn't had that haircut yet.

(https://i.ibb.co/Hnr9436/EY2v-B9-EXk-AIYm-Od-format-jpg-name-900x900.jpg)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Trond on August 31, 2021, 05:30:30 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, Jonathan Chait is a total fucktard moron. The Democrats don't have a media ecosystem that supports them?

Just think abut how the media treated President Trump compared to how the media treats Biden.

The NYT even admitted to purposely running anti-trump, negative Trump articles every fucking day.

CNN, MSNBC, ALL of the "Late Night" shows--all of them, running negative articles, negative editorials, negative news reporting, negative "Comedy Skits" on and on, every fucking day. The Atlantic, the NYT, the LA Times, Salon, GQ, Vogue, Rolling Stone. Every goddamn one of them always being negative towards President Trump.

Fuck them. They can all burn in Napalm. Think about not just what the media actually reports and says about Biden--but also by what they don't do or say about Biden. No endless, daily hit pieces on Biden always searching for the drop of toothpaste to critique him on. Likewise, imagine the avalanche of criticism that could be spotlighted on fucking Kamala, each and every day. Three months of that kind of treatment against her that President Trump got would have her sobbing and fleeing to retire in a mental asylum somewhere fast.

Instead, the media routinely sucks on Kamala's ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

CNN also admitted it, albeit on Project Veritas "candid camera" :)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 31, 2021, 07:54:41 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

I mean, she is both of India heritage and African heritage. And as the U.S. uses the "one drop" rule for African American I am not sure what the issue is? It's not mutually exclusive to be both.
We don't use the 'one drop' rule for anything, bigot.

We literally do, moron. I didn't invent that standard and it's no longer codified but it remains the cultural standard. The African American community adopted that standard. I suspect YOU adopted it too, unless you're claiming President Obama was not African American? It's not a literal "one drop" by the way that's just the old common parlance. It's more complicated than that, but unquestionably Kamala Harris is in fact considered both African American and a person of India decent.
I can't help it if other people are stupid. I see you left out the second part of my quote.

But then, you are a neocon and therefore scum.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on August 31, 2021, 08:06:06 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, Jonathan Chait is a total fucktard moron. The Democrats don't have a media ecosystem that supports them?

Just think abut how the media treated President Trump compared to how the media treats Biden.

The NYT even admitted to purposely running anti-trump, negative Trump articles every fucking day.

CNN, MSNBC, ALL of the "Late Night" shows--all of them, running negative articles, negative editorials, negative news reporting, negative "Comedy Skits" on and on, every fucking day. The Atlantic, the NYT, the LA Times, Salon, GQ, Vogue, Rolling Stone. Every goddamn one of them always being negative towards President Trump.

Fuck them. They can all burn in Napalm. Think about not just what the media actually reports and says about Biden--but also by what they don't do or say about Biden. No endless, daily hit pieces on Biden always searching for the drop of toothpaste to critique him on. Likewise, imagine the avalanche of criticism that could be spotlighted on fucking Kamala, each and every day. Three months of that kind of treatment against her that President Trump got would have her sobbing and fleeing to retire in a mental asylum somewhere fast.

Instead, the media routinely sucks on Kamala's ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

CNN also admitted it, albeit on Project Veritas "candid camera" :)

Greetings!

Yep! You are exactly right, Trond! All of these corrupt media companies have amply demonstrated how they are total Liberal Marxist propaganda machines, utterly untrustworthy, and utterly bankrupt of any morals or any kind of professional or journalistic legitimacy.

That's why nowadays I chalk them up to lying bastards entirely, and discard anything they say, or anything some Libtard quotes from them. It is mind boggling how disgusting they are. They lie, they fabricate, they deceive every day, in virtually every program, every video, every story they produce. It's so clown world that some pseudo-educated smug Liberals try to condescending insist such "News sources" are in any way legitimate, reputable, or professional. Anyone that is truly educated or even observant knows they have become disgusting, worthless rags. Pathetic programing that cannot be trusted for much of anything.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on August 31, 2021, 08:11:42 PM
Maybe they're setting the stage for Biden's withdrawal due to his blatant senility and his replacement by Chameleon Lady and her diversity regime

Of course, she's already backed by the media! As you can guess, all criticism is simply "debunked racist far right conspiracy theories by alt-right white supremacist, anti-vaxxer, gun-toting extremists who are also antisemitic, sexist, islamophobic and xenophobic and a threat to diversity and democracy"


Fortunately we have fact checkers hired by Soros and the BBC who covered up for pedophile Jimmy Saville to tell us who to trust

I mean, she is both of India heritage and African heritage. And as the U.S. uses the "one drop" rule for African American I am not sure what the issue is? It's not mutually exclusive to be both.
We don't use the 'one drop' rule for anything, bigot.

We literally do, moron. I didn't invent that standard and it's no longer codified but it remains the cultural standard. The African American community adopted that standard. I suspect YOU adopted it too, unless you're claiming President Obama was not African American? It's not a literal "one drop" by the way that's just the old common parlance. It's more complicated than that, but unquestionably Kamala Harris is in fact considered both African American and a person of India decent.
I can't help it if other people are stupid. I see you left out the second part of my quote.

But then, you are a neocon and therefore scum.

How is Kamala Harris NOT African American, and how is she a person NOT of India decent? I mean, stop dancing around here. What is it you think is so wrong with calling her both? Her dad is African-American and her mom is Indian-American. Dad born in Jamaica and Mom born in India. How is she not both? As for Irish she's what, 1/8th Irish and nobody identifies her that way nor does she identify herself that way?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 31, 2021, 08:59:28 PM
As for Irish she's what, 1/8th Irish and nobody identifies her that way nor does she identify herself that way?
One drop rule, remember. Her blood is tainted with whiskey and potatoes!
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Trond on August 31, 2021, 10:56:02 PM

Greetings!

Yep! You are exactly right, Trond! All of these corrupt media companies have amply demonstrated how they are total Liberal Marxist propaganda machines, utterly untrustworthy, and utterly bankrupt of any morals or any kind of professional or journalistic legitimacy.

That's why nowadays I chalk them up to lying bastards entirely, and discard anything they say, or anything some Libtard quotes from them. It is mind boggling how disgusting they are. They lie, they fabricate, they deceive every day, in virtually every program, every video, every story they produce. It's so clown world that some pseudo-educated smug Liberals try to condescending insist such "News sources" are in any way legitimate, reputable, or professional. Anyone that is truly educated or even observant knows they have become disgusting, worthless rags. Pathetic programing that cannot be trusted for much of anything.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Speaking of Marxist propaganda, check out the latest Project Veritas videos exposing the Communist school teacher who is literally trying to turn kids into "revolutionaries".
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on August 31, 2021, 11:03:48 PM
A number of news sources, mostly conservative of course, are reporting that a group of US veterans, including Green Berets and SEALs, flew to Kabul and conducted a number of sorties to rescue the Afghanis they'd worked with. Including family members, they rescued several hundred over the course of a week (reports vary, but all are 500 or more). They called their mission the Pineapple Express, because they were telling their contacts to say the word pineapple, or a show a pineapple on their phones, to be allowed in the gates. Which sounds like a better plan than giving the Taliban a list of all their names.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/us-vets-volunteer-to-secretly-rescue-allies-in-afghanistan/
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shasarak on September 01, 2021, 12:40:30 AM
A number of news sources, mostly conservative of course, are reporting that a group of US veterans, including Green Berets and SEALs, flew to Kabul and conducted a number of sorties to rescue the Afghanis they'd worked with. Including family members, they rescued several hundred over the course of a week (reports vary, but all are 500 or more). They called their mission the Pineapple Express, because they were telling their contacts to say the word pineapple, or a show a pineapple on their phones, to be allowed in the gates. Which sounds like a better plan than giving the Taliban a list of all their names.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/us-vets-volunteer-to-secretly-rescue-allies-in-afghanistan/

I would have just stuck with shibboleth.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: HappyDaze on September 01, 2021, 05:04:44 AM
A number of news sources, mostly conservative of course, are reporting that a group of US veterans, including Green Berets and SEALs, flew to Kabul and conducted a number of sorties to rescue the Afghanis they'd worked with. Including family members, they rescued several hundred over the course of a week (reports vary, but all are 500 or more). They called their mission the Pineapple Express, because they were telling their contacts to say the word pineapple, or a show a pineapple on their phones, to be allowed in the gates. Which sounds like a better plan than giving the Taliban a list of all their names.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/us-vets-volunteer-to-secretly-rescue-allies-in-afghanistan/
I'll watch the film adaptation when it comes out.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 01, 2021, 07:20:56 AM
A number of news sources, mostly conservative of course, are reporting that a group of US veterans, including Green Berets and SEALs, flew to Kabul and conducted a number of sorties to rescue the Afghanis they'd worked with. Including family members, they rescued several hundred over the course of a week (reports vary, but all are 500 or more). They called their mission the Pineapple Express, because they were telling their contacts to say the word pineapple, or a show a pineapple on their phones, to be allowed in the gates. Which sounds like a better plan than giving the Taliban a list of all their names.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/us-vets-volunteer-to-secretly-rescue-allies-in-afghanistan/
I'll watch the film adaptation when it comes out.

  I suspect you can find Tim Kennedy somewhere online talking and showing as many pictures as he can of him being involved, or wanting to be involved.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 01, 2021, 11:49:11 AM
(http://ace.mu.nu/archives/meme%2020210902%2010.jpg)

No, it's not a photoshop.  https://twitter.com/StateDeptSpox/status/1432509849141657601

I just... why? Why would you post something this... vapid, this stupid? Why? Who is running things?

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 01, 2021, 04:15:38 PM
(http://ace.mu.nu/archives/meme%2020210902%2010.jpg)

No, it's not a photoshop.  https://twitter.com/StateDeptSpox/status/1432509849141657601

I just... why? Why would you post something this... vapid, this stupid? Why? Who is running things?

  Well, it sure looks like the Taliban.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Trond on September 01, 2021, 05:07:44 PM
(http://ace.mu.nu/archives/meme%2020210902%2010.jpg)

No, it's not a photoshop.  https://twitter.com/StateDeptSpox/status/1432509849141657601

I just... why? Why would you post something this... vapid, this stupid? Why? Who is running things?

He sounds, almost literally, as if he was born yesterday. It's as if someone asked a moderately intelligent 10-year old to write the assignment "what do you hope for Afghanistan in the future?".
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on September 01, 2021, 11:49:30 PM
Yesterday, Reuters published a leaked transcript of July 23rd call between Biden and the then-President of Afghanistan, in which Biden told Ghani they needed to change the perception that the fight against the Taliban wasn't going well, "whether it was true or not".

That directly contradicts Biden's statements today, and earlier, that he and his team were caught flat footed.

https://www.reuters.com/world/excerpts-call-between-joe-biden-ashraf-ghani-july-23-2021-08-31/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9945031/Biden-told-Afghan-President-needed-change-perception-Talibans-rapid-advance.html
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on September 02, 2021, 12:28:32 AM
Latest Rasmussen Report is out (9/1). Biden's down another 2 points. 42/56 approve/disapprove. His disapproval rating is 1 point higher than his highest approval rating during his presidency (55%). It's also notable that the number of people who strongly disapprove is 47%, 5 points higher than the total of all the people who approve, strongly or not.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/biden_administration/biden_approval_index_history
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Prairie Dragon on September 02, 2021, 06:25:00 AM
A number of news sources, mostly conservative of course, are reporting that a group of US veterans, including Green Berets and SEALs, flew to Kabul and conducted a number of sorties to rescue the Afghanis they'd worked with. Including family members, they rescued several hundred over the course of a week (reports vary, but all are 500 or more). They called their mission the Pineapple Express, because they were telling their contacts to say the word pineapple, or a show a pineapple on their phones, to be allowed in the gates. Which sounds like a better plan than giving the Taliban a list of all their names.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/us-vets-volunteer-to-secretly-rescue-allies-in-afghanistan/

Actually, The CIA et al have helped a lot of folks get out of the country.  The last of The CIA et al left weeks/months before The Taliban 'took' Kabul. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: jeff37923 on September 02, 2021, 09:07:31 AM
(http://ace.mu.nu/archives/meme%2020210902%2010.jpg)

No, it's not a photoshop.  https://twitter.com/StateDeptSpox/status/1432509849141657601

I just... why? Why would you post something this... vapid, this stupid? Why? Who is running things?

Oh, that is tragically laughable.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 02, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 02, 2021, 05:45:40 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):



How is this about Biden's presidency? Start a new thread if you want to yak about abortion. I might even participate.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 02, 2021, 06:58:46 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):



  Nope.  I am pretty sure no one in Texas will prevent anyone from leaving and getting whatever procedure they may want.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 02, 2021, 07:34:14 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):



How is this about Biden's presidency?

He was taken flatfooted twice and both times women rights plummeted?

Considering that this law...

"...Leaves enforcement up to individual citizens, who could collect cash bounties of at least $10,000 for bringing successful lawsuits against women who seek abortion after their sixth week of pregnancy or those who help them."

...Expect for every crypto-Taliban around to start fapping. Who needs Afghanistan when you can have it right at home? ::)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 02, 2021, 10:10:14 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):



How is this about Biden's presidency?

He was taken flatfooted twice and both times women rights plummeted?

Considering that this law...

"...Leaves enforcement up to individual citizens, who could collect cash bounties of at least $10,000 for bringing successful lawsuits against women who seek abortion after their sixth week of pregnancy or those who help them."

...Expect for every crypto-Taliban around to start fapping. Who needs Afghanistan when you can have it right at home? ::)

     I just want all the "pro choice" people to say out loud they are simply pro abortion.   I am not a religious person, or spiritual.  But I do wonder that if there is an afterlife, how that particular issue will be judged.    I never understood how it was made a blanket "right" for the entire country based on a woman who lied about being raped to get an abortion.   I say if women want to end a life, go right ahead, probably best for the terminated fetus anyway. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 02, 2021, 11:42:28 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):



How is this about Biden's presidency?

He was taken flatfooted twice and both times women rights plummeted?

Considering that this law...

"...Leaves enforcement up to individual citizens, who could collect cash bounties of at least $10,000 for bringing successful lawsuits against women who seek abortion after their sixth week of pregnancy or those who help them."

...Expect for every crypto-Taliban around to start fapping. Who needs Afghanistan when you can have it right at home? ::)

Alright. I'm pretty sure American conservatives are not fundamentalist Muslim terrorists. And the law does not appear to target the people who get abortions.

Quote
The provision cannot be used against pregnant people, but reproductive rights advocates warn it can be used to target abortion providers and abortion-rights activists.
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/19/998237349/the-governor-of-texas-has-signed-a-law-that-bans-abortion-as-early-as-6-weeks

So you're wrong on the specifics of the law, and making a dumb analogy that doesn't work.

Plus, you're being transphobic, in using the term woman instead of pregnant person.

https://www.healthline.com/health/transgender/can-men-get-pregnant

Do better.

On top of all that, I'm pretty sure Biden didn't have any input on a law passed in the state of Texas. Which makes your analogy even dumber.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Willmark on September 03, 2021, 12:31:17 PM
Meanwhile the first Taliban land in the USA ::):



How is this about Biden's presidency?

He was taken flatfooted twice and both times women rights plummeted?

Considering that this law...

"...Leaves enforcement up to individual citizens, who could collect cash bounties of at least $10,000 for bringing successful lawsuits against women who seek abortion after their sixth week of pregnancy or those who help them."

...Expect for every crypto-Taliban around to start fapping. Who needs Afghanistan when you can have it right at home? ::)

     I just want all the "pro choice" people to say out loud they are simply pro abortion.   I am not a religious person, or spiritual.  But I do wonder that if there is an afterlife, how that particular issue will be judged.    I never understood how it was made a blanket "right" for the entire country based on a woman who lied about being raped to get an abortion.   I say if women want to end a life, go right ahead, probably best for the terminated fetus anyway.
Same questions, thoughts.

Not particularly religious or spiritual and wonder the same. If I had an objection to abortion it would likely be around naturals rights.

I do find it amusing the left tries to equate the right to the Taliban? False equivalency really. As yet I haven’t seen the right acting in the same manner as the Taliban or cases of homosexuals being hurled off buildings.

Seems quite a stretch for those making the assertions.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: DocJones on September 05, 2021, 02:46:55 PM
I do find it amusing the left tries to equate the right to the Taliban? False equivalency really. As yet I haven’t seen the right acting in the same manner as the Taliban or cases of homosexuals being hurled off buildings.

Seems quite a stretch for those making the assertions.
One might compare it to idea of a "Taliban" hurling babies off buildings.




Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on September 07, 2021, 06:48:45 PM
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/1035-the-zogby-poll-one-fifth-of-likely-voters-and-democrats-regret-voting-for-biden

20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. Considering that 20% of 80 million is 16 million, and the last last election was decided by a few tens of thousands of votes in key states, it's not looking good for Team Blue in the midterms.

The demographic breakdown also has shows softening in Biden's traditional base. Black and young voters were more likely to regret their vote (25% and 27%), and it's highest of all among Hispanics (33%). Regret is unexpectedly high among urban voters, as well (28%).
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Mistwell on September 07, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/1035-the-zogby-poll-one-fifth-of-likely-voters-and-democrats-regret-voting-for-biden

20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. Considering that 20% of 80 million is 16 million, and the last last election was decided by a few tens of thousands of votes in key states, it's not looking good for Team Blue in the midterms.

The demographic breakdown also has shows softening in Biden's traditional base. Black and young voters were more likely to regret their vote (25% and 27%), and it's highest of all among Hispanics (33%). Regret is unexpectedly high among urban voters, as well (28%).

I don't know about the accuracy of this particular poll but I agree with your premise that it's not looking good for Democrats in the midterms.

And in general that's how I prefer things: one party in control of Congress, and the other party in control of the Presidency. This tends to lead to the least amount of damage to society, other than it provides for zero hope to ever fix things like campaign finance reform and lobbying, because those are topics both parties can corruptly agree on together.

That said, the USSC better get to dealing with that Texas abortion issue well before the midterms. Nothing riles up the Democratic base more than the abortion issue. It is to Democrats what a total handgun confiscation and ban would be to Republicans.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on September 07, 2021, 10:32:21 PM
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/1035-the-zogby-poll-one-fifth-of-likely-voters-and-democrats-regret-voting-for-biden

20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. Considering that 20% of 80 million is 16 million, and the last last election was decided by a few tens of thousands of votes in key states, it's not looking good for Team Blue in the midterms.

The demographic breakdown also has shows softening in Biden's traditional base. Black and young voters were more likely to regret their vote (25% and 27%), and it's highest of all among Hispanics (33%). Regret is unexpectedly high among urban voters, as well (28%).

I don't know about the accuracy of this particular poll but I agree with your premise that it's not looking good for Democrats in the midterms.

And in general that's how I prefer things: one party in control of Congress, and the other party in control of the Presidency. This tends to lead to the least amount of damage to society, other than it provides for zero hope to ever fix things like campaign finance reform and lobbying, because those are topics both parties can corruptly agree on together.

That said, the USSC better get to dealing with that Texas abortion issue well before the midterms. Nothing riles up the Democratic base more than the abortion issue. It is to Democrats what a total handgun confiscation and ban would be to Republicans.
10 years ago I would have agreed with you, but considering how destructive the Democratic party has become and how the Republican's idea of resistance is giving the progressives half what they want instead of all of it, gridlock isn't what it used to be. Look at how many trillions the Republicans just acceded to. So I'm torn between keeping the progressives away from any levers of power at all, and giving them full control and letting them run everything into the ground. Is it better to slowly pull off the bandage, or rip it off?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 07:42:28 AM
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/1035-the-zogby-poll-one-fifth-of-likely-voters-and-democrats-regret-voting-for-biden

20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. Considering that 20% of 80 million is 16 million, and the last last election was decided by a few tens of thousands of votes in key states, it's not looking good for Team Blue in the midterms.

The demographic breakdown also has shows softening in Biden's traditional base. Black and young voters were more likely to regret their vote (25% and 27%), and it's highest of all among Hispanics (33%). Regret is unexpectedly high among urban voters, as well (28%).

I don't know about the accuracy of this particular poll but I agree with your premise that it's not looking good for Democrats in the midterms.

And in general that's how I prefer things: one party in control of Congress, and the other party in control of the Presidency. This tends to lead to the least amount of damage to society, other than it provides for zero hope to ever fix things like campaign finance reform and lobbying, because those are topics both parties can corruptly agree on together.

That said, the USSC better get to dealing with that Texas abortion issue well before the midterms. Nothing riles up the Democratic base more than the abortion issue. It is to Democrats what a total handgun confiscation and ban would be to Republicans.
10 years ago I would have agreed with you, but considering how destructive the Democratic party has become and how the Republican's idea of resistance is giving the progressives half what they want instead of all of it, gridlock isn't what it used to be. Look at how many trillions the Republicans just acceded to. So I'm torn between keeping the progressives away from any levers of power at all, and giving them full control and letting them run everything into the ground. Is it better to slowly pull off the bandage, or rip it off?
And if the consequences landed solely on their heads, I'd agree.

But how many innocents will be caught up in the gears of the fuck up brigade?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on September 08, 2021, 07:48:01 AM
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/1035-the-zogby-poll-one-fifth-of-likely-voters-and-democrats-regret-voting-for-biden

20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. Considering that 20% of 80 million is 16 million, and the last last election was decided by a few tens of thousands of votes in key states, it's not looking good for Team Blue in the midterms.

The demographic breakdown also has shows softening in Biden's traditional base. Black and young voters were more likely to regret their vote (25% and 27%), and it's highest of all among Hispanics (33%). Regret is unexpectedly high among urban voters, as well (28%).

I don't know about the accuracy of this particular poll but I agree with your premise that it's not looking good for Democrats in the midterms.

And in general that's how I prefer things: one party in control of Congress, and the other party in control of the Presidency. This tends to lead to the least amount of damage to society, other than it provides for zero hope to ever fix things like campaign finance reform and lobbying, because those are topics both parties can corruptly agree on together.

That said, the USSC better get to dealing with that Texas abortion issue well before the midterms. Nothing riles up the Democratic base more than the abortion issue. It is to Democrats what a total handgun confiscation and ban would be to Republicans.
10 years ago I would have agreed with you, but considering how destructive the Democratic party has become and how the Republican's idea of resistance is giving the progressives half what they want instead of all of it, gridlock isn't what it used to be. Look at how many trillions the Republicans just acceded to. So I'm torn between keeping the progressives away from any levers of power at all, and giving them full control and letting them run everything into the ground. Is it better to slowly pull off the bandage, or rip it off?
And if the consequences landed solely on their heads, I'd agree.

But how many innocents will be caught up in the gears of the fuck up brigade?
All of them, but I don't see it as a choice between harming innocents and not harming innocents. I see it as a bad situation that will only be ended by an even worse situation. In that case, do you continue along in indefinite misery, or do you let everything blow up?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 07:50:00 AM
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/1035-the-zogby-poll-one-fifth-of-likely-voters-and-democrats-regret-voting-for-biden

20% of Biden voters regret voting for him. Considering that 20% of 80 million is 16 million, and the last last election was decided by a few tens of thousands of votes in key states, it's not looking good for Team Blue in the midterms.

The demographic breakdown also has shows softening in Biden's traditional base. Black and young voters were more likely to regret their vote (25% and 27%), and it's highest of all among Hispanics (33%). Regret is unexpectedly high among urban voters, as well (28%).

I don't know about the accuracy of this particular poll but I agree with your premise that it's not looking good for Democrats in the midterms.

And in general that's how I prefer things: one party in control of Congress, and the other party in control of the Presidency. This tends to lead to the least amount of damage to society, other than it provides for zero hope to ever fix things like campaign finance reform and lobbying, because those are topics both parties can corruptly agree on together.

That said, the USSC better get to dealing with that Texas abortion issue well before the midterms. Nothing riles up the Democratic base more than the abortion issue. It is to Democrats what a total handgun confiscation and ban would be to Republicans.
10 years ago I would have agreed with you, but considering how destructive the Democratic party has become and how the Republican's idea of resistance is giving the progressives half what they want instead of all of it, gridlock isn't what it used to be. Look at how many trillions the Republicans just acceded to. So I'm torn between keeping the progressives away from any levers of power at all, and giving them full control and letting them run everything into the ground. Is it better to slowly pull off the bandage, or rip it off?
And if the consequences landed solely on their heads, I'd agree.

But how many innocents will be caught up in the gears of the fuck up brigade?
All of them, but I don't see it as a choice between harming innocents and not harming innocents. I see it as a bad situation that will only be ended by an even worse situation. In that case, do you continue along in indefinite misery, or do you let everything blow up?
I vote for helicopter rides.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 09, 2021, 08:00:40 AM
Speaking of people who need helicopter rides.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/08/antony-blinken-taliban-cabinet-inclusive-diversity-women-afghanistan/

Quote
“Yesterday, the Taliban named a new interim government. We are assessing the announcement, but despite professing that a new government would be inclusive, the announced list of names consists exclusively of individuals who are members of the Taliban or their close associates, and no women,” Blinken said.

Jesus Christ. We are being led by absolute morons. Why the fuck would anyone think the Taliban give a shit about diversity?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 09, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Speaking of people who need helicopter rides.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/08/antony-blinken-taliban-cabinet-inclusive-diversity-women-afghanistan/

Quote
“Yesterday, the Taliban named a new interim government. We are assessing the announcement, but despite professing that a new government would be inclusive, the announced list of names consists exclusively of individuals who are members of the Taliban or their close associates, and no women,” Blinken said.

Jesus Christ. We are being led by absolute morons. Why the fuck would anyone think the Taliban give a shit about diversity?

Greetings!

It's always a joy to view the stunned, uncomprehending deer-in-headlights expression on weak fucking Liberal's faces when they are confronted by someone or a group that has a gun pointed at the Liberal's head, and they command the Liberal to get on their knees and suck cock, or die.

The world is full of fierce, savage people that don't agree with you, don't value you, or want much of anything that you value. They have their own culture, their own religion, their own values and goals--and also their own methods of seizing whatever they want, too.

Diversity? Women? Democracy? Here is an AK-47. That is their answer to all of that, and a sword.

Fucking Liberals are such naïve morons. They always have been. Remember Jimmy Carter? "We can negotiate with the terrorists!" As the terrorists take our people hostage, and dance in the streets chanting "Death to America!" "The Soviets want peace. We can negotiate with them out of good faith, love, and human rights"--Soviet paratroopers seize Kabul, and Soviet armies roll into Afghanistan.

Fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 09, 2021, 04:15:32 PM
Because leftists think based on how they want things to be rather than how they really are.

And regarding abortion- isn't it unjust that the father has no say? If he's ready and willing to raise the child too bad, but if she has the child he is stuck with child support? It's darkly amusing to hear the very people who insist "gender is a social construct" suddenly point out that women get pregnant, not men.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2021, 04:24:36 PM
Because leftists think based on how they want things to be rather than how they really are.

And regarding abortion- isn't it unjust that the father has no say? If he's ready and willing to raise the child too bad, but if she has the child he is stuck with child support? It's darkly amusing to hear the very people who insist "gender is a social construct" suddenly point out that women get pregnant, not men.

The feminists hitched their wagon to the ideology of deconstructing gender roles. Most of them seem to have not realized that eventually they'd get around to deconstructing the idea of sex itself.
Thus the whole TERF kerfuffle.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 09, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
Because leftists think based on how they want things to be rather than how they really are.

And regarding abortion- isn't it unjust that the father has no say? If he's ready and willing to raise the child too bad, but if she has the child he is stuck with child support? It's darkly amusing to hear the very people who insist "gender is a social construct" suddenly point out that women get pregnant, not men.

The feminists hitched their wagon to the ideology of deconstructing gender roles. Most of them seem to have not realized that eventually they'd get around to deconstructing the idea of sex itself.
Thus the whole TERF kerfuffle.


Feminism was just something meant to make people miserable and to destroy society. It's just that now their usefulness has come to an end- and I do not feel sorry for any of them, young or old.

"They want war... Then they shall have it."
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 15, 2021, 01:54:13 PM
Why would it matter whether people stopped liking Biden if all elections are stolen? 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: DM_Curt on September 15, 2021, 02:17:59 PM
Why would it matter whether people stopped liking Biden if all elections are stolen?
Do any but a tiny minority (20% or less) of Democrats actually like Biden?  The rest just voted "Not Trump" under the cult-like chant of "Vote Blue, No Matter Who", which in itself, is admission that they have no candidates worth supporting on their own merits.  And any polls claiming support are full of people just wanting the polls to say so, and voting accordingly.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: KingCheops on September 15, 2021, 02:27:52 PM
Why would it matter whether people stopped liking Biden if all elections are stolen?
Do any but a tiny minority (20% or less) of Democrats actually like Biden?  The rest just voted "Not Trump" under the cult-like chant of "Vote Blue, No Matter Who", which in itself, is admission that they have no candidates worth supporting on their own merits.  And any polls claiming support are full of people just wanting the polls to say so, and voting accordingly.

The lack of down ballot votes is a big indicator of this.  Voters didn't give a shit about the DemonKKKrats.  They just were tired of 5 years of "orange man bad!"
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 02:49:57 PM
  So, the main reason the whole democracy and freedom thing didnt kick off in afghanistan or elsewhere in the past.... you have to be willing to DIE to get it, and you have to be willing to DIE to keep it.  Not kill, but to die.   MOST people (99.9 percent worldwide maybe) are not willing to die to have freedom.  They are not even willing to risk injury.   The afghans we backed couldnt do jumping jacks, were largely drug addicts, and like banging little kids.   What does it say about our "leaders" that is the sort of trash they decide to back.   Nevermind the fact these same dudes COMPLETELY unwilling to fight pushed their way to the front of the lines to escape via plane letting the women and kids fend for themselves. 

    Why the fuck, would anyone who gives it 5 minutes of thought, want a bunch of people here who are here because they were COMPLETELY UNWILLING to fight or risk themselves to have a way of life that we think they must value (they are fleeing to here).   Not the biggest fan of spineless cowards, and it seems we are moving in the direction of importing them now.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 15, 2021, 02:59:36 PM
You're not saying anything new - just slightly more vulgarly.

Quote
The increasing number of immigrants in the first half of the nineteenth century created new tensions. Catholic immigrants drew public hostility because of their poverty;
the diseases they brought with them after the perilous ocean voyage; the slum housing they were forced to live in; and the dramatic rise in crime rates, alcoholism, and the poverty rolls that occurred after their arrival. Many American-born Protestants, equating their English heritage with “true” Americanism, despised the desperately poor Irish and feared the Germans, who spoke a strange new language. The antialiens were nativists, convinced that opposition to the growing minority of Catholic immigrants was necessary to protect their America.

Quote
Founded in Iowa in 1887, the APA had attracted a membership of 500,000 by 1895. While its leaders focused on fears of Irish Catholic control of bigcity political machines and educational institutions, the organization’s members focused on assaulting the “alien” ways of the “new immigrants.” They believed these people were the inferior “refuse of Europe” and could never be
assimilated into U.S. culture.

Source (https://www.gale.com/binaries/content/assets/gale-us-en/primary-sources/newsvault/gps_newsvault_19thcentury_usnewspapers_immigration_essay.pdf)

America has never become weaker by accepting immigrants, but the same arguments get made every time a new immigrant group gets tossed in the mix.  Whether it's the Irish, or the Chinese, the Mexicans, or the Afghans, whatever the current group is is just 'too different' but it turns out people actually WANT to be Americans. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 03:02:10 PM
You're not saying anything new - just slightly more vulgarly.

Quote
The increasing number of immigrants in the first half of the nineteenth century created new tensions. Catholic immigrants drew public hostility because of their poverty;
the diseases they brought with them after the perilous ocean voyage; the slum housing they were forced to live in; and the dramatic rise in crime rates, alcoholism, and the poverty rolls that occurred after their arrival. Many American-born Protestants, equating their English heritage with “true” Americanism, despised the desperately poor Irish and feared the Germans, who spoke a strange new language. The antialiens were nativists, convinced that opposition to the growing minority of Catholic immigrants was necessary to protect their America.

Quote
Founded in Iowa in 1887, the APA had attracted a membership of 500,000 by 1895. While its leaders focused on fears of Irish Catholic control of bigcity political machines and educational institutions, the organization’s members focused on assaulting the “alien” ways of the “new immigrants.” They believed these people were the inferior “refuse of Europe” and could never be
assimilated into U.S. culture.

Source (https://www.gale.com/binaries/content/assets/gale-us-en/primary-sources/newsvault/gps_newsvault_19thcentury_usnewspapers_immigration_essay.pdf)

America has never become weaker by accepting immigrants, but the same arguments get made every time a new immigrant group gets tossed in the mix.  Whether it's the Irish, or the Chinese, the Mexicans, or the Afghans, whatever the current group is is just 'too different' but it turns out people actually WANT to be Americans.

  I am not talking about immigrants.  I am talking about people who were abject cowards, drug addicts, and kid fuckers who pushed women and kids out of the way to save their own necks.   These people are not immigrating.  If they wanted to feel American, they could have fucking started by planting their feet and fucking fighting for it.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 15, 2021, 03:16:19 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.   
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 03:21:46 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

  That is cultural feature of the afghanis we were were training and helping.  An army captain got a dishonorable discharge for beating the shit out of a northern alliance officer for raping a kid.  it was RAMPANT.  It is certain death to cling to to a plane wing.  They were too stupid to know this, and preferred dying to what the taliban would do to them.  You know what they could have done to prevent the Taliban from doing anything to them?  Fucking act like goddamn men and fight.  If they were coming here after bloody battles and now coming to an end where they will be routed that is one thing.  But to just break and run first thing?  Desperate or not, I no not need kid fucking cowards around.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 03:25:06 PM
  And to be honest, even if we managed to weed out all the kid fuckers, the rest are cowards and mass majority drug abusers (the folks we tried to train to fight) so I still have Z E R O use for them.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: DocJones on September 16, 2021, 05:55:35 PM
The afghans we backed couldnt do jumping jacks, were largely drug addicts, and like banging little kids.
They were democrats?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: moonsweeper on September 16, 2021, 09:29:32 PM
The afghans we backed couldnt do jumping jacks, were largely drug addicts, and like banging little kids.
They were democrats?

Now, Now...They might have been Republicans trying get on board with The Lincoln Project...
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 17, 2021, 11:54:18 AM
I'm 20 pages into an interesting academic book on Partisanship. 

The book (https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/partisan-next-door/D1053108A840E8CB6BF558F646594F60) is available for download to PDF. 

It describes three ways of seeing your association with political party.  Most of the posters on this site appear to subscribe to the partisan-identity version - essentially you have a tribe that is an important part of your political identify - actions/political victories by the other party threaten your identity.  People with this view ascribe specific qualities to members of each political faction (ie, uneducated, pedophile, etc).  Alternatively, some people primarily conceive of political parties as coalitions of factions - while they may ascribe particular characteristics to members of a faction, it doesn't follow that all members of that political faction share that characteristic.  Ie, recognizing that some Republicans are anti-abortion and some are White-Supremacists, it allows for someone to be a Republican without ALSO being a racist.  The third method is focused primarily on policy goals - ie, someone that values SECURITY on the world stage might vote Republican.  In that case, the policy goal may associate with a party, but by focusing on the policy goal there is less focus on the individual personality traits that we associate with those voters.  Focusing on policy differences (rather than inherent deficiencies in morality) might be a way to continue to recognize the significant differences between the parties without destroying the social fabric that unites us as a society. 

But devolving into a Civil War could be fun, instead. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: DocJones on September 17, 2021, 04:57:02 PM
I'm 20 pages into an interesting academic book on Partisanship. 

   Stereotypes of Democrats   Stereotypes of Republicans
Most frequent response   Liberal (19.6%)   Conservative (14%)
2nd   Open-minded (4.2%)   Rich (7.6%)
...

This study is obviously flawed because cock-sucking commie baby-killing satanic pedophiles doesn't even appear in the top ten for democrats.
:-P



Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Shasarak on September 17, 2021, 05:26:28 PM
But devolving into a Civil War could be fun, instead.

Why is it always a war with you people.  If Biden has shown us anything it is that it possible to have a (relatively) bloodless exchange of power.

Just leave all of your weapons behind on the floor when you go.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 23, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 23, 2021, 11:09:13 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

  Well...color me shocked.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 24, 2021, 03:14:35 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game? Foreigners sexually abusing children is about how many have been caught versus how many haven't? Hailing from a land that is famous for sexual abuse of children?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 24, 2021, 03:21:36 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

   Two in a VERY short time frame, on a military base where everyone who was extremely vetted is on their very best behavior.  Lets add in its two more than we had before any refugees were taken in.   I have complete, utter confidence they are just the first two, and in the next few years a wonderful seed will be planted all over the nation where we put afghan refugee communities.

  Hopefully I am wrong and these will be the only two bad seeds taken in.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 08:13:04 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game?

Sure. Either that, or a look at people who gun rampage in the USA would show how ALL Americans are potential gun rampaging nuts and thus gun sales should be banned.

Bad behaviour is endemic in any ethnicity/slice of population/fandom/various. Were there racist/misogynist tweets against Star Wars? Sure, there were. A small percentage. Lucasfilm, however, attacked those to attack ALL the fandom and, as a result, they still haven't stop crying.

Are there White Supremacists out there? Yup - all fourteen of them. SJW use them to denounce billions of people. Bow your head, you old white male, because someone somewhere is bad!

Denouncing a whole group of people because of some bad behaviour is SJW/Woke-speak in its purest form. So, we have two Afghan refugees accused (accused = guilty is still SJW/Woke-speak, BTW) out of...? Three? Four?

Edit: Well, out of 13,000 it would seem. OK.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 24, 2021, 09:08:54 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game?

Sure. Either that, or a look at people who gun rampage in the USA would show how ALL Americans are potential gun rampaging nuts and thus gun sales should be banned.

Bad behaviour is endemic in any ethnicity/slice of population/fandom/various. Were there racist/misogynist tweets against Star Wars? Sure, there were. A small percentage. Lucasfilm, however, attacked those to attack ALL the fandom and, as a result, they still haven't stop crying.

Are there White Supremacists out there? Yup - all fourteen of them. SJW use them to denounce billions of people. Bow your head, you old white male, because someone somewhere is bad!

Denouncing a whole group of people because of some bad behaviour is SJW/Woke-speak in its purest form. So, we have two Afghan refugees accused (accused = guilty is still SJW/Woke-speak, BTW) out of...? Three? Four?

Edit: Well, out of 13,000 it would seem. OK.

  The problem with that, is comparing citizens who YOU HAVE TO deal with, warts and all, to refugees, who you have zero obligations to.  One is problems with the territory, the other is bringing problems.  I prefer to not make new problems.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 09:17:59 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game?

Sure. Either that, or a look at people who gun rampage in the USA would show how ALL Americans are potential gun rampaging nuts and thus gun sales should be banned.

Bad behaviour is endemic in any ethnicity/slice of population/fandom/various. Were there racist/misogynist tweets against Star Wars? Sure, there were. A small percentage. Lucasfilm, however, attacked those to attack ALL the fandom and, as a result, they still haven't stop crying.

Are there White Supremacists out there? Yup - all fourteen of them. SJW use them to denounce billions of people. Bow your head, you old white male, because someone somewhere is bad!

Denouncing a whole group of people because of some bad behaviour is SJW/Woke-speak in its purest form. So, we have two Afghan refugees accused (accused = guilty is still SJW/Woke-speak, BTW) out of...? Three? Four?

Edit: Well, out of 13,000 it would seem. OK.

  The problem with that, is comparing citizens who YOU HAVE TO deal with, warts and all, to refugees, who you have zero obligations to.

Apart from invading their country and leaving it 20 years later messier than when you went in, of course.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 24, 2021, 09:29:36 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game?

Sure. Either that, or a look at people who gun rampage in the USA would show how ALL Americans are potential gun rampaging nuts and thus gun sales should be banned.

Bad behaviour is endemic in any ethnicity/slice of population/fandom/various. Were there racist/misogynist tweets against Star Wars? Sure, there were. A small percentage. Lucasfilm, however, attacked those to attack ALL the fandom and, as a result, they still haven't stop crying.

Are there White Supremacists out there? Yup - all fourteen of them. SJW use them to denounce billions of people. Bow your head, you old white male, because someone somewhere is bad!

Denouncing a whole group of people because of some bad behaviour is SJW/Woke-speak in its purest form. So, we have two Afghan refugees accused (accused = guilty is still SJW/Woke-speak, BTW) out of...? Three? Four?

Edit: Well, out of 13,000 it would seem. OK.

  The problem with that, is comparing citizens who YOU HAVE TO deal with, warts and all, to refugees, who you have zero obligations to.

Apart from invading their country and leaving it 20 years later messier than when you went in, of course.

  No.  I have zero obligation to those people.  Period.   I do not get to make the calls for our rulers, and I will not suffer the consequences of their mistakes.   Time for that is about done.   They can go to a neighboring nation, since all those who fled seemed so worried about the Taliban, they fired nary a shot to stop them.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 25, 2021, 07:56:40 AM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game?

Sure. Either that, or a look at people who gun rampage in the USA would show how ALL Americans are potential gun rampaging nuts and thus gun sales should be banned.

Bad behaviour is endemic in any ethnicity/slice of population/fandom/various. Were there racist/misogynist tweets against Star Wars? Sure, there were. A small percentage. Lucasfilm, however, attacked those to attack ALL the fandom and, as a result, they still haven't stop crying.

Are there White Supremacists out there? Yup - all fourteen of them. SJW use them to denounce billions of people. Bow your head, you old white male, because someone somewhere is bad!

Denouncing a whole group of people because of some bad behaviour is SJW/Woke-speak in its purest form. So, we have two Afghan refugees accused (accused = guilty is still SJW/Woke-speak, BTW) out of...? Three? Four?

Edit: Well, out of 13,000 it would seem. OK.

  The problem with that, is comparing citizens who YOU HAVE TO deal with, warts and all, to refugees, who you have zero obligations to.

Apart from invading their country and leaving it 20 years later messier than when you went in, of course.

  No.  I have zero obligation to those people.  Period.

It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Pat on September 25, 2021, 11:49:22 AM
It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.
Oggsmash, stop invading foreign nations. You're making Reckall uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 25, 2021, 01:16:10 PM
It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.
Oggsmash, stop invading foreign nations. You're making Reckall uncomfortable.

  No shit.  I vote against all the invaders, and now I am responsible.  Not sure he understands a thing.  IF I scream at someone to not fuck something up, over and over, and they go and fuck it up, I do not understand how I am responsible.  Mindless is thinking the political class in any way represents the population in the USA.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 25, 2021, 01:18:46 PM
You have a specific individual in mind?  Someone you know is a kid-fucker? 

Because I saw people so desperate to live the American dream that they clung to the wings of an airplane as it took to the air - who chose near certain death for a CHANCE to make a better life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-afghan-refugees-charged-with-child-sex-spousal-abuse-crimes-at-fort-mccoy/ar-AAOIuhy?ocid=uxbndlbing

Cue the sad trombone.

Two out of how many?

Oh so it's a numbers game?

Sure. Either that, or a look at people who gun rampage in the USA would show how ALL Americans are potential gun rampaging nuts and thus gun sales should be banned.

Bad behaviour is endemic in any ethnicity/slice of population/fandom/various. Were there racist/misogynist tweets against Star Wars? Sure, there were. A small percentage. Lucasfilm, however, attacked those to attack ALL the fandom and, as a result, they still haven't stop crying.

Are there White Supremacists out there? Yup - all fourteen of them. SJW use them to denounce billions of people. Bow your head, you old white male, because someone somewhere is bad!

Denouncing a whole group of people because of some bad behaviour is SJW/Woke-speak in its purest form. So, we have two Afghan refugees accused (accused = guilty is still SJW/Woke-speak, BTW) out of...? Three? Four?

Edit: Well, out of 13,000 it would seem. OK.

  The problem with that, is comparing citizens who YOU HAVE TO deal with, warts and all, to refugees, who you have zero obligations to.

Apart from invading their country and leaving it 20 years later messier than when you went in, of course.

  No.  I have zero obligation to those people.  Period.

It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.

  I didnt invade shit, I have NEVER voted for anyone who pushed any invading.  I did not go over to those nations, and I was against it from the start, I was against Desert Storm to defend Kuwaiti thieves.   What is mindless, is thinking everyone should pay for the mistakes of a very few.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 25, 2021, 03:49:24 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, American women are already being fucking RAPED by the goddamn Afghan "Refugees".

Let's open the gates and bring hundreds of thousands of Afghans into America!

Fucking Cunt Morons. Cock-sucking Marxist scum.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 25, 2021, 09:09:35 PM
It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.
Oggsmash, stop invading foreign nations. You're making Reckall uncomfortable.
Seeing eggs on someone's face makes me uncomfortable, yes :D
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 25, 2021, 09:15:19 PM
It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.
Oggsmash, stop invading foreign nations. You're making Reckall uncomfortable.

  No shit.  I vote against all the invaders, and now I am responsible.  Not sure he understands a thing.

Let's say that you are not sure in a general sense.
Quote
  IF I scream at someone to not fuck something up, over and over, and they go and fuck it up, I do not understand how I am responsible.

So, you were against going in Afghanistan after 9/11?

Quote
  Mindless is thinking the political class in any way represents the population in the USA.

Then maybe the "population in the USA" has some work to do.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 25, 2021, 09:18:03 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: DocJones on September 25, 2021, 10:25:08 PM
Yeah, American women are already being fucking RAPED by the goddamn Afghan "Refugees".
They are just getting started. 
Cover your women.
Cover your goats.


Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 26, 2021, 08:52:06 AM
Pogroms: coming soon to a community near you.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 27, 2021, 11:05:47 AM
Pogroms: coming soon to a community near you.

Just put them in camps along with the people of Innsmouth: problem solved! :D
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 11:59:46 AM
Pogroms: coming soon to a community near you.

Just put them in camps along with the people of Innsmouth: problem solved! :D
I'm not exactly smiling at this. Pogroms aren't a good thing.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 27, 2021, 12:20:01 PM
It must be nice to life in a World where you invade enemy countries due to their leaders but you are not responsible at all for their population. So relaxing and mindless... I guess this sums up Biden too.
Oggsmash, stop invading foreign nations. You're making Reckall uncomfortable.

  No shit.  I vote against all the invaders, and now I am responsible.  Not sure he understands a thing.

Let's say that you are not sure in a general sense.
Quote
  IF I scream at someone to not fuck something up, over and over, and they go and fuck it up, I do not understand how I am responsible.

So, you were against going in Afghanistan after 9/11?

Quote
  Mindless is thinking the political class in any way represents the population in the USA.

Then maybe the "population in the USA" has some work to do.

 Yes I was against going in afghanistan after 9/11, and MUCH more against staying, and really, really against invading Iraq.   What part of this is hard for you to get?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 27, 2021, 01:01:28 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 27, 2021, 01:02:42 PM
Pogroms: coming soon to a community near you.

Just put them in camps along with the people of Innsmouth: problem solved! :D
I'm not exactly smiling at this. Pogroms aren't a good thing.

Well you're not a leftist who wants us all disarmed...
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:05:45 PM
Pogroms: coming soon to a community near you.

Just put them in camps along with the people of Innsmouth: problem solved! :D
I'm not exactly smiling at this. Pogroms aren't a good thing.

Well you're not a leftist who wants us all disarmed...
True. But pogroms aren't healthy from a moral standpoint, and they're not exactly discerning either.

I just think it's going to happen. I really hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 27, 2021, 02:09:48 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

And, well, there shouldn't be any complaints when young, bearded Afghan men start raping the fuck out of the nice, sweet Italian girls, right? It's just more international "diversity" for Italy.

And Italy can also pick up the tab for all the brats born to the Italian girls from getting ploughed by the bearded Afghan men. It's good for Italy to become more diverse. Get some new breeding going on in there. Some new, strange languages, entirely new customs and culture, and well, of course, more peaceful Islam. Yeah. More Muslims pouring into Italy. See? That way Italy gets the full serving of diversity--diverse culture, diverse language, diverse religion--and more diverse breeding.

I wonder how Italy would like that? Somehow, I don't think they would be thrilled, from what I've heard in the news. Unsurprisingly, Americans aren't fucking thrilled and overjoyed about hundreds of thousands of Afghans pouring into our country either.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 27, 2021, 03:38:39 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

And, well, there shouldn't be any complaints when young, bearded Afghan men start raping the fuck out of the nice, sweet Italian girls, right? It's just more international "diversity" for Italy.

And Italy can also pick up the tab for all the brats born to the Italian girls from getting ploughed by the bearded Afghan men. It's good for Italy to become more diverse. Get some new breeding going on in there. Some new, strange languages, entirely new customs and culture, and well, of course, more peaceful Islam. Yeah. More Muslims pouring into Italy. See? That way Italy gets the full serving of diversity--diverse culture, diverse language, diverse religion--and more diverse breeding.

I wonder how Italy would like that? Somehow, I don't think they would be thrilled, from what I've heard in the news. Unsurprisingly, Americans aren't fucking thrilled and overjoyed about hundreds of thousands of Afghans pouring into our country either.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hey come on now. Other economic migrants from other countries have been successful, ergo, the Afghans will be successful!
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 27, 2021, 04:20:48 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

And, well, there shouldn't be any complaints when young, bearded Afghan men start raping the fuck out of the nice, sweet Italian girls, right? It's just more international "diversity" for Italy.

And Italy can also pick up the tab for all the brats born to the Italian girls from getting ploughed by the bearded Afghan men. It's good for Italy to become more diverse. Get some new breeding going on in there. Some new, strange languages, entirely new customs and culture, and well, of course, more peaceful Islam. Yeah. More Muslims pouring into Italy. See? That way Italy gets the full serving of diversity--diverse culture, diverse language, diverse religion--and more diverse breeding.

I wonder how Italy would like that? Somehow, I don't think they would be thrilled, from what I've heard in the news. Unsurprisingly, Americans aren't fucking thrilled and overjoyed about hundreds of thousands of Afghans pouring into our country either.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hey come on now. Other economic migrants from other countries have been successful, ergo, the Afghans will be successful!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Right, right, my friend! OF COURSE! How narrow-minded and bigoted of me to forget that all cultures, everywhere, are EQUAL. Afghan immigrants pouring into Italy would be just as smooth and problem-free--and of course, just as productive and beneficial--as any other group of immigrants. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 27, 2021, 06:10:25 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

You government "lets in fuckups from the world over" since before it was a government. Have you ever studied North American history?

Quote
Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in.

They are already doing that. For now, they are on the fence about gun shooting spree Americans.

Quote
Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

You are welcome. :) We pulled out without fuckups, BTW.

Quote
Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

You mean that you took Afghanistan from the Taliban, invested trillions of dollars in the country that they didn't have and then gave it back to them? For real? Wow... :o
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 27, 2021, 06:15:47 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

Why not? After all the war in Afghanistan was initiated, fought and ended by us and us alone. Isn't it? 😂
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 27, 2021, 06:57:14 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

Why not? After all the war in Afghanistan was initiated, fought and ended by us and us alone. Isn't it? 😂

Greetings!

Right right, Reckall. I know. I'm not a fan of how we fucked up the Afghanistan campaign, I'd say since 2004 or 2005 it's been one clusterfuck of corruption, competing egos, careerism, self-promotion, and incompetence ever since. An absolute cascade of never-ending stupidity.

I'm also not a fan though of just opening the gates to anyone and everyone from Afghanistan. A few of them, and their families--the various people that actually worked and fought alongside our soldiers and Marines. THEY are welcome to get shipped over here, for a new life. I'd even support some kind of "Helping Bill" to provide them with some money and assistance in getting squared away here in America. The scum? The kiddie-fuckers? The criminals, hangers-on, and terrorists? Various flavours of smarmy cowards? Fuck no.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 27, 2021, 09:45:13 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

Why not? After all the war in Afghanistan was initiated, fought and ended by us and us alone. Isn't it? 😂
And, as a bonus, it'll go a long way in invigorating the bloodlines of the Italian people.  Let's face it, between the mass emigration of the early 20th century and that absolute ass-whooping of the Italians by both sides of the conflict in WW2, there's not much cultural or societal vigor left.  Italy took a huge hit from Covid because their population is older and frail.  Honestly, no one even thinks about Italy unless they need to film a movie or TV series about ancient Rome.  Italy is pretty much irrelevant.  And infusion of young, vigorous, Afghani blood might do wonders for the population.  At least it has a chance to spark an old, dead, irrelevant culture into something perhaps more lively.  So, yeah, more migrants to Italy!
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 28, 2021, 03:31:58 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

Why not? After all the war in Afghanistan was initiated, fought and ended by us and us alone. Isn't it? 😂
And, as a bonus, it'll go a long way in invigorating the bloodlines of the Italian people.  Let's face it, between the mass emigration of the early 20th century and that absolute ass-whooping of the Italians by both sides of the conflict in WW2, there's not much cultural or societal vigor left.  Italy took a huge hit from Covid because their population is older and frail.  Honestly, no one even thinks about Italy unless they need to film a movie or TV series about ancient Rome.  Italy is pretty much irrelevant.  And infusion of young, vigorous, Afghani blood might do wonders for the population.  At least it has a chance to spark an old, dead, irrelevant culture into something perhaps more lively.  So, yeah, more migrants to Italy!

Sure, sure (pats the head). As a trolling effort you manage a C- Not bad. Here is a candy :)
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 28, 2021, 07:44:30 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

You government "lets in fuckups from the world over" since before it was a government. Have you ever studied North American history?

Quote
Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in.

They are already doing that. For now, they are on the fence about gun shooting spree Americans.

Quote
Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

You are welcome. :) We pulled out without fuckups, BTW.

Quote
Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

You mean that you took Afghanistan from the Taliban, invested trillions of dollars in the country that they didn't have and then gave it back to them? For real? Wow... :o

Dude you think you're owning me but you're not.

1. Yes my shitty government lets fuckups from the world over to enter. Most notably, 12,000 Haitians who had been living comfortably in Chile and other South American countries. I utterly despise this.

2. Why would any nation let in a spree shooter?

3. Yeah, you left without a massive disaster, great. Italy was still part of the NATO mission and bears guilt. You were still part of the hated foreign invaders.

4. Italy was part of this stupid, wasteful spending in Afghanistan as well. Of course not on nearly so great a scale.

You seem to think we conservatives are pro-Afghan war. Not in any way shape or form.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Reckall on September 28, 2021, 08:09:29 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

You government "lets in fuckups from the world over" since before it was a government. Have you ever studied North American history?

Quote
Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in.

They are already doing that. For now, they are on the fence about gun shooting spree Americans.

Quote
Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

You are welcome. :) We pulled out without fuckups, BTW.

Quote
Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

You mean that you took Afghanistan from the Taliban, invested trillions of dollars in the country that they didn't have and then gave it back to them? For real? Wow... :o

Dude you think you're owning me but you're not.

Not the best opening.
Quote
1. Yes my shitty government lets fuckups from the world over to enter. Most notably, 12,000 Haitians who had been living comfortably in Chile and other South American countries. I utterly despise this.

Don't forget Europeans.

Quote
2. Why would any nation let in a spree shooter?

You mean that not all Americans are spree shooters the way not all Afghani are rapists? I learn this only now :o

Quote
3. Yeah, you left without a massive disaster, great. Italy was still part of the NATO mission and bears guilt. You were still part of the hated foreign invaders.

Amen to that. Next time it will be better not to follow the "World's policemen".

Quote
4. Italy was part of this stupid, wasteful spending in Afghanistan as well. Of course not on nearly so great a scale.

We took an oath of allegiance and we did our duty as a NATO country. If you think that it was wrong, then next time don't invoke Article 5 before going in.

Quote
You seem to think we conservatives are pro-Afghan war. Not in any way shape or form.

What I think about "you conservatives" is that since a few years you do seem to be a very confused people. In all fairness, the other side of the aisle doesn't seem much better.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 28, 2021, 10:26:52 AM
Greetings!

Hey there, hold on, now. Italy isn't *guilty* of anything--and the Italians  aren't stupid or wrong for following us into danger. FRIENDS stand by each other, right or wrong. Especially when the shooting starts. And yeah, you also support and stand by your friend, even when you think they have made a mistake or are wrong. You still don't turn your back on them, and you jump in and help them.

America doesn't always do the best thing or the smart thing. It is good to remember that we are friends with Britain, Italy, and some of those other little European countries. America has helped them in the past, as well as currently.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 28, 2021, 10:32:40 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in. Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

Greetings!

Yeah, we should let several hundred thousand Aghan refugees immigrate to Italy. Why stop there, though? Let a million and more Afghans pour into Italy. Italy can house them, feed them, and support them in every way. For *years*.

Why not? After all the war in Afghanistan was initiated, fought and ended by us and us alone. Isn't it? 😂
And, as a bonus, it'll go a long way in invigorating the bloodlines of the Italian people.  Let's face it, between the mass emigration of the early 20th century and that absolute ass-whooping of the Italians by both sides of the conflict in WW2, there's not much cultural or societal vigor left.  Italy took a huge hit from Covid because their population is older and frail.  Honestly, no one even thinks about Italy unless they need to film a movie or TV series about ancient Rome.  Italy is pretty much irrelevant.  And infusion of young, vigorous, Afghani blood might do wonders for the population.  At least it has a chance to spark an old, dead, irrelevant culture into something perhaps more lively.  So, yeah, more migrants to Italy!

Greetings!

INVIGORATE the Italian population! *Laughing* You know, over there in Italy they are having a fertility crisis. They aren't fucking enough, and having enough babies*. So, I suppose having hordes of young, virile Afghan men around will help change things around in Italy! ;D

*WTF? I thought Italian girls loved to fuck and have lots of kids? What the fuck is wrong with the Italian women?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 01:14:44 PM
CENTCOM General McKenzie testified to Congress today that he warned Biden that Afghanistan would collapse and recommended leaving a small force to stabilize it.

This is in direct contradiction to Biden's repeated assertions that he 'can't recall' anyone telling him that.

But hey, no more mean tweets, right?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 28, 2021, 01:23:10 PM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 01:26:34 PM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Not the point, ogg, though you're not wrong.

The fact is that the regime insists they totally didn't expect this, and now the generals are directly contradicting them.

Internal schisms within the regime are always ripe for opportunities.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: horsesoldier on September 28, 2021, 01:47:08 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

You government "lets in fuckups from the world over" since before it was a government. Have you ever studied North American history?

Quote
Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in.

They are already doing that. For now, they are on the fence about gun shooting spree Americans.

Quote
Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

You are welcome. :) We pulled out without fuckups, BTW.

Quote
Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

You mean that you took Afghanistan from the Taliban, invested trillions of dollars in the country that they didn't have and then gave it back to them? For real? Wow... :o

Dude you think you're owning me but you're not.

Not the best opening.
Quote
1. Yes my shitty government lets fuckups from the world over to enter. Most notably, 12,000 Haitians who had been living comfortably in Chile and other South American countries. I utterly despise this.

Don't forget Europeans.

Quote
2. Why would any nation let in a spree shooter?

You mean that not all Americans are spree shooters the way not all Afghani are rapists? I learn this only now :o

Quote
3. Yeah, you left without a massive disaster, great. Italy was still part of the NATO mission and bears guilt. You were still part of the hated foreign invaders.

Amen to that. Next time it will be better not to follow the "World's policemen".

Quote
4. Italy was part of this stupid, wasteful spending in Afghanistan as well. Of course not on nearly so great a scale.

We took an oath of allegiance and we did our duty as a NATO country. If you think that it was wrong, then next time don't invoke Article 5 before going in.

Quote
You seem to think we conservatives are pro-Afghan war. Not in any way shape or form.

What I think about "you conservatives" is that since a few years you do seem to be a very confused people. In all fairness, the other side of the aisle doesn't seem much better.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fort-bliss-female-military-service-member-assaulted-by-afghan-evacuees-fbi-investigating/ar-AAOOhbh?ocid=spartanntp

The guilty Afghan bastards that RAPED the American woman should be promptly fucking strung up and hung.

But, mind it, only if he is Afghan. If he is American - or from Ecuador if it matters - he gets a pass.

Fuck someone from Ecuador. They don't belong here either. And yeah dude my countrymen are my countrymen, even if they're fuck ups. I don't need to let in fuck ups from the world over, even though that's what out government does.

You government "lets in fuckups from the world over" since before it was a government. Have you ever studied North American history?

Quote
Go petition your government to let rapey Afghans in.

They are already doing that. For now, they are on the fence about gun shooting spree Americans.

Quote
Italy is part of NATO after all and supported the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Italy houses US troops, warehouses US equipment and provides overflight privileges.

You are welcome. :) We pulled out without fuckups, BTW.

Quote
Finally, Afghanistan is much better off in a material sense, after 20 years and trillions of dollars.

You mean that you took Afghanistan from the Taliban, invested trillions of dollars in the country that they didn't have and then gave it back to them? For real? Wow... :o

Dude you think you're owning me but you're not.

Not the best opening.
Quote
1. Yes my shitty government lets fuckups from the world over to enter. Most notably, 12,000 Haitians who had been living comfortably in Chile and other South American countries. I utterly despise this.

Don't forget Europeans.

Quote
2. Why would any nation let in a spree shooter?

You mean that not all Americans are spree shooters the way not all Afghani are rapists? I learn this only now :o

Quote
3. Yeah, you left without a massive disaster, great. Italy was still part of the NATO mission and bears guilt. You were still part of the hated foreign invaders.

Amen to that. Next time it will be better not to follow the "World's policemen".

Quote
4. Italy was part of this stupid, wasteful spending in Afghanistan as well. Of course not on nearly so great a scale.

We took an oath of allegiance and we did our duty as a NATO country. If you think that it was wrong, then next time don't invoke Article 5 before going in.

Quote
You seem to think we conservatives are pro-Afghan war. Not in any way shape or form.

What I think about "you conservatives" is that since a few years you do seem to be a very confused people. In all fairness, the other side of the aisle doesn't seem much better.

There are thousands of Europeans camped out at the border? Who knew.

Also, it's Afghan, not Afghani. Afghani is their money. One would thing someone as worldly as you would know this.

You're confusing conservatives for neo-conservatives. Neocons are the ones that got us in this garbage and drug along NATO. Actual conservatives have always been against this crap.

As to the rapey Afghan problem, the original claim was that they haven't committed any crimes, they were simply yearning for freedom, and there have been documented cases of rape/sexual assault. This is only the stuff they've been caught for. If there were masses of Americans illegally going into Italy and a number of spree shooters were amongst them, you'd have a point.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 28, 2021, 09:05:03 PM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Not the point, ogg, though you're not wrong.

The fact is that the regime insists they totally didn't expect this, and now the generals are directly contradicting them.

Internal schisms within the regime are always ripe for opportunities.

   I am sure they all expected it, and are now engaging in pre planned political theatre.  Generals are more political than actual politicians. 
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 09:33:03 PM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Not the point, ogg, though you're not wrong.

The fact is that the regime insists they totally didn't expect this, and now the generals are directly contradicting them.

Internal schisms within the regime are always ripe for opportunities.

   I am sure they all expected it, and are now engaging in pre planned political theatre.  Generals are more political than actual politicians.
I don't think they expected things to come unglued like this. And it lends credence to the theory that there's a behind-the-scenes civil war going on between various factions of the regime.

Anyone heard from Heels-Up recently?
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 29, 2021, 12:10:06 AM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Not the point, ogg, though you're not wrong.

The fact is that the regime insists they totally didn't expect this, and now the generals are directly contradicting them.

Internal schisms within the regime are always ripe for opportunities.

   I am sure they all expected it, and are now engaging in pre planned political theatre.  Generals are more political than actual politicians.
I don't think they expected things to come unglued like this. And it lends credence to the theory that there's a behind-the-scenes civil war going on between various factions of the regime.

Anyone heard from Heels-Up recently?

I think she commented on the border horse "controversey". Then slunk back into whatever hole she hides in.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 29, 2021, 06:44:24 AM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Not the point, ogg, though you're not wrong.

The fact is that the regime insists they totally didn't expect this, and now the generals are directly contradicting them.

Internal schisms within the regime are always ripe for opportunities.

   I am sure they all expected it, and are now engaging in pre planned political theatre.  Generals are more political than actual politicians.
I don't think they expected things to come unglued like this. And it lends credence to the theory that there's a behind-the-scenes civil war going on between various factions of the regime.

Anyone heard from Heels-Up recently?

I think she commented on the border horse "controversey". Then slunk back into whatever hole she hides in.
That's because she thought they said "border whores" and was afraid they were importing competition...
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 29, 2021, 08:10:24 AM
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/09/generals-contradict-biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-lloyd-billingsley-0/

Alexa, play 'Dance A Little Sidestep' for me.

Jesus. I have to admit, my personal favorite in this article is Gen. Milley talking about how 'I don’t discuss exactly what my conversations are with a sitting president in the Oval Office.' Unless it's with China, right Milley? Fucker.

Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: SHARK on September 29, 2021, 01:54:17 PM
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/09/generals-contradict-biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-lloyd-billingsley-0/

Alexa, play 'Dance A Little Sidestep' for me.

Jesus. I have to admit, my personal favorite in this article is Gen. Milley talking about how 'I don’t discuss exactly what my conversations are with a sitting president in the Oval Office.' Unless it's with China, right Milley? Fucker.

Greetings!

Yeah, General Milley is an absolutely worthless fucking toad. I think he's also a slimy, smarmy, political Grima Wormtongue figure that is faithless, duplicitous, and treasonous. He should have been at least fired long ago. Perhaps he should have been thoroughly investigated for his fucking conversations with the Communist RED CHINESE???? He should be lined up on a wall and fucking shot for treason. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on September 29, 2021, 04:10:51 PM
I do not care if it collapsed.   I do believe in the will of the people, and the people there wanted the Taliban in charge, plain and simple.  If billions of dollars of the best equipment and training for 20 years can not get it done, it was never going to be done.  My problem now, is the name beatches who fled with not a iota of fight are coming to the USA now.  People keep talking about who the USA has let immigrate, well in years long past, there was no social safety net for immigrants or others.  If you couldnt make it, you left rather than starve.  Now we give anyone who wants it money, food, and housing.  We are not bringing in the people that drive economies, or at least not that drive them upwards.   Enjoy the decline.
Not the point, ogg, though you're not wrong.

The fact is that the regime insists they totally didn't expect this, and now the generals are directly contradicting them.

Internal schisms within the regime are always ripe for opportunities.

   I am sure they all expected it, and are now engaging in pre planned political theatre.  Generals are more political than actual politicians.
I don't think they expected things to come unglued like this. And it lends credence to the theory that there's a behind-the-scenes civil war going on between various factions of the regime.

Anyone heard from Heels-Up recently?

  Oh I think they did.  I think they planned to use the crisis thus created, and not let it go to waste.   Generals disagreeing I get though, they figure they will still want a job when Biden is gone in a year or so.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Kiero on October 12, 2021, 10:06:13 AM
"Let's go Brandon" is the gift that keeps on giving:
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 12, 2021, 02:25:56 PM
Looks like San Fran Nan is throwing in the towel on the 3.5 trillion spendapalooza 'infrastructure' bill. At least, they're going to have to pare it back: https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1447959706824323079

I can't imagine how this could've gone so wrong. I mean, hectoring Manchin and chasing Sinema into bathrooms and onto planes? Genius!

LOL. Stupid fucks. And the Republicans aren't giving them a scrap of cover. Even the RINOs are talking shit.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: oggsmash on October 12, 2021, 03:21:18 PM
  ounce of cover....fuck that.  I am ready for them to go back to the founding fathers methods of vigorous debate and for these shitheads to beat one another with canes, have duels, and fucking shoot one another.    I want to see some real disagreement, and not whatever this theatre is where the worthless shits all "disagree strongly" and then go to the same parties, eat the same cheese, drink the same wine, and get paid by the same lobbyists.
Title: Re: Biden's Presidency, all hail the Taliban!
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 12, 2021, 03:57:43 PM
  ounce of cover....fuck that.  I am ready for them to go back to the founding fathers methods of vigorous debate and for these shitheads to beat one another with canes, have duels, and fucking shoot one another.    I want to see some real disagreement, and not whatever this theatre is where the worthless shits all "disagree strongly" and then go to the same parties, eat the same cheese, drink the same wine, and get paid by the same lobbyists.
See, I think those days are fast-a-coming.

Part of it, of course, is due to the shakeups in GOP-land due to the Tea Party and later Trump. But it's MORE distinct when you consider some of the newer Democrats, who are hardcore radicals. They'll happily reap the benefits of largess, but they won't want to share with their erstwhile opponents.

Remember, the narrative is not that we're wrong, but that we're evil and should be purged for the good of everyone.