This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Biden's Cascade of Failure!  (Read 82112 times)

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #435 on: August 12, 2022, 09:46:23 PM »
The fact that no, the President does not have unfettered unilateral power to declassify whatever he wants is easy enough to verify. You can throw as many acronyms as you like at that, it won't become any less true.

I see this is the part of the show where you do your best Shawn Eckardt impression in the face of undeniable proof that you're wrong.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnV90AgHQHA

No one said he could declassify everything - I stated as much. But what was seized is *not* RD or CNWDI or the identity of our spies.  Doesn't matter if it is labeled C/S/TS - if he declassified it, it's declassified. Just because he has defense information isn't a violation of the espionage act.  That the info was in storage means that he wasn't trying to destroy or hide it - espionage act still doesn't apply

News flash - CUI (the former FOUO or SBU) and declassified info (which would become CUI) does not require a GSA approved container or a SCIF - it just needs to be stored where it won't be casually taken and not strewn about for randos to look at while your reading it - a locked desk drawer is sufficient to store it when your done with it. If it is declassified and not CUI, then there are *no* restrictions in how  it gets handled.  Don't believe me?  Here's the link to a formerly confidential document located on a public website: https://maritime.org/doc/attack/index.php

That the warrant was looking for*any* documents during his presidency is so overly-broad in violation of 4A, it'll get tossed in court. But Garland knew that already and it isn't about Trump breaking the law (he didn't) - it's about inconveniencing him and distracting from the Biden admin shitshow going into the mid-terms.

Cool, I'll just bookmark this post for when it gets thrown out and I have to admit that you were right.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #436 on: August 12, 2022, 10:05:58 PM »
The fact that no, the President does not have unfettered unilateral power to declassify whatever he wants is easy enough to verify. You can throw as many acronyms as you like at that, it won't become any less true.

I see this is the part of the show where you do your best Shawn Eckardt impression in the face of undeniable proof that you're wrong.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnV90AgHQHA

No one said he could declassify everything - I stated as much. But what was seized is *not* RD or CNWDI or the identity of our spies.  Doesn't matter if it is labeled C/S/TS - if he declassified it, it's declassified. Just because he has defense information isn't a violation of the espionage act.  That the info was in storage means that he wasn't trying to destroy or hide it - espionage act still doesn't apply

News flash - CUI (the former FOUO or SBU) and declassified info (which would become CUI) does not require a GSA approved container or a SCIF - it just needs to be stored where it won't be casually taken and not strewn about for randos to look at while your reading it - a locked desk drawer is sufficient to store it when your done with it. If it is declassified and not CUI, then there are *no* restrictions in how  it gets handled.  Don't believe me?  Here's the link to a formerly confidential document located on a public website: https://maritime.org/doc/attack/index.php

That the warrant was looking for*any* documents during his presidency is so overly-broad in violation of 4A, it'll get tossed in court. But Garland knew that already and it isn't about Trump breaking the law (he didn't) - it's about inconveniencing him and distracting from the Biden admin shitshow going into the mid-terms.

Cool, I'll just bookmark this post for when it gets thrown out and I have to admit that you were right.

You don't have to believe me - this pretty much spells it out explicitly:

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8330
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #437 on: August 13, 2022, 01:21:57 AM »
I do hope Trump runs again and wins.

I'll happily vote for him again. The only time I've ever voted is during the 2020 elections, and I voted straight Red just to spite the Dems.
I have no interest in playing "pick the asshole" between Dems and Repubs now, but I'll vote for the Don just because he throws such a monkey wrench in the establishment gears.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #438 on: August 13, 2022, 08:15:13 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #439 on: August 13, 2022, 09:19:54 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #440 on: August 13, 2022, 10:00:21 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.

No one is arguing that. I've already explained this to you - Controlled Unclassified Information does *not* have to be handled like classified information. Regardless of it's original classification, if it is declassified and is CUI, it doesn't need to be stored in a GSA container or viewed in a SCIF. If it is declassified and not CUI, it can be freely shared.

A president can take TS/SCI/codeword info and declassify it at will. He can also turn around and make Distribution A data classified at will. 

What part of this do you still not understand.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #441 on: August 13, 2022, 10:09:38 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

Yes. Garland claimed they would release it unless Trump objected. He called Garland's bluff by immediately requesting the warrant to be released. It's an overly-broad warrant that is very likely to be ruled by a judge to be unconstitutional in violation of the 4th Amendment because it is looking for *any* documents that were during Trump's term of office. The property receipts list some classified documents without specifying what they were - all of which Trump and his aides confirmed were declassified before he left office. Also in the fridge we're things like Roger Stone's clemency document - none of it having to do with nuclear anything. Just so people understand - DoE documents are not marked the same as other classified documents - they would be either RD or CNWDI - none of which were indicated in the property receipt.

The affidavit is still sealed - and that is more important as it will detail what the PC was to get the warrant - and I think we'll find that whoever submitted the affidavit will need to get their affairs in order and clear their calendar (and how a good lawyer) to defend against a false official statement charge.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #442 on: August 13, 2022, 10:53:11 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

Yes. Garland claimed they would release it unless Trump objected. He called Garland's bluff by immediately requesting the warrant to be released. It's an overly-broad warrant that is very likely to be ruled by a judge to be unconstitutional in violation of the 4th Amendment because it is looking for *any* documents that were during Trump's term of office. The property receipts list some classified documents without specifying what they were - all of which Trump and his aides confirmed were declassified before he left office. Also in the fridge we're things like Roger Stone's clemency document - none of it having to do with nuclear anything. Just so people understand - DoE documents are not marked the same as other classified documents - they would be either RD or CNWDI - none of which were indicated in the property receipt.

The affidavit is still sealed - and that is more important as it will detail what the PC was to get the warrant - and I think we'll find that whoever submitted the affidavit will need to get their affairs in order and clear their calendar (and how a good lawyer) to defend against a false official statement charge.
How.can you be confident that all of the documents were declassified when you state the documents collected were not specified?

Eirikrautha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #443 on: August 13, 2022, 11:25:09 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

Yes. Garland claimed they would release it unless Trump objected. He called Garland's bluff by immediately requesting the warrant to be released. It's an overly-broad warrant that is very likely to be ruled by a judge to be unconstitutional in violation of the 4th Amendment because it is looking for *any* documents that were during Trump's term of office. The property receipts list some classified documents without specifying what they were - all of which Trump and his aides confirmed were declassified before he left office. Also in the fridge we're things like Roger Stone's clemency document - none of it having to do with nuclear anything. Just so people understand - DoE documents are not marked the same as other classified documents - they would be either RD or CNWDI - none of which were indicated in the property receipt.

The affidavit is still sealed - and that is more important as it will detail what the PC was to get the warrant - and I think we'll find that whoever submitted the affidavit will need to get their affairs in order and clear their calendar (and how a good lawyer) to defend against a false official statement charge.
How.can you be confident that all of the documents were declassified when you state the documents collected were not specified?
Because the staffers who pulled the documents to be packed and the lawyers who examined them with the FBI in June have stated that Trump declassified the documents.  It's that simple.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #444 on: August 13, 2022, 11:41:47 AM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

Yes. Garland claimed they would release it unless Trump objected. He called Garland's bluff by immediately requesting the warrant to be released. It's an overly-broad warrant that is very likely to be ruled by a judge to be unconstitutional in violation of the 4th Amendment because it is looking for *any* documents that were during Trump's term of office. The property receipts list some classified documents without specifying what they were - all of which Trump and his aides confirmed were declassified before he left office. Also in the fridge we're things like Roger Stone's clemency document - none of it having to do with nuclear anything. Just so people understand - DoE documents are not marked the same as other classified documents - they would be either RD or CNWDI - none of which were indicated in the property receipt.

The affidavit is still sealed - and that is more important as it will detail what the PC was to get the warrant - and I think we'll find that whoever submitted the affidavit will need to get their affairs in order and clear their calendar (and how a good lawyer) to defend against a false official statement charge.
How.can you be confident that all of the documents were declassified when you state the documents collected were not specified?
Because the staffers who pulled the documents to be packed and the lawyers who examined them with the FBI in June have stated that Trump declassified the documents.  It's that simple.
And you are absolutely sure these are the same documents? I don't think we know that for certain at this point as the documents taken thus week have not been released to the public. You are, of course, entitled to believe what you wish, but I'll wait to see what happens.

DocJones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1081
  • theofascist
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #445 on: August 13, 2022, 11:55:04 AM »

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #446 on: August 13, 2022, 01:00:57 PM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

Yes. Garland claimed they would release it unless Trump objected. He called Garland's bluff by immediately requesting the warrant to be released. It's an overly-broad warrant that is very likely to be ruled by a judge to be unconstitutional in violation of the 4th Amendment because it is looking for *any* documents that were during Trump's term of office. The property receipts list some classified documents without specifying what they were - all of which Trump and his aides confirmed were declassified before he left office. Also in the fridge we're things like Roger Stone's clemency document - none of it having to do with nuclear anything. Just so people understand - DoE documents are not marked the same as other classified documents - they would be either RD or CNWDI - none of which were indicated in the property receipt.

The affidavit is still sealed - and that is more important as it will detail what the PC was to get the warrant - and I think we'll find that whoever submitted the affidavit will need to get their affairs in order and clear their calendar (and how a good lawyer) to defend against a false official statement charge.
How.can you be confident that all of the documents were declassified when you state the documents collected were not specified?
Because the staffers who pulled the documents to be packed and the lawyers who examined them with the FBI in June have stated that Trump declassified the documents.  It's that simple.
And you are absolutely sure these are the same documents? I don't think we know that for certain at this point as the documents taken thus week have not been released to the public. You are, of course, entitled to believe what you wish, but I'll wait to see what happens.

It doesn't really matter what was seized - by virtue of the fact that they were shipped to him and were in storage at Mir-a-Lago means that they were declassified before the GSA packed them and shipped them to Florida.  Unless you are suggesting that there was some man in the middle attack where someone snuck out documents, intercepted the shipment, and swapped them out?

Here's the thing - any president has the authority to declassify things under their own recognizance. They don't need to follow any formal process. 

The left are arguing that he needed permission to declassify them.  Why would a president need permission to declassify from a subordinate whose authority has been delegated *from* the president?

Garland and Wray whined about the DoJ and FBI being harassed because they're all patriotic do-gooders - and immediately thereafter one of them leaked "we're looking for nukular secretz!!" to the press.

Why did the judge who was "assigned" the job of authorizing the warrant recuse himself from the Trump v. Clinton trial days before he was "assigned" the job?  How could he possibly know to recuse himself? What did he knew and when did he know it - and who assigned him? What's the odds of the FBI agent who worked J6 also being involved in this raid? What are the chances of him being the affiant on the affidavit that produced the warrant to raid MaL? 

The problem here is the AG and FBI director have allowed their agencies to become the DNC's Gestapo.  Some have speculated that this is FBI cleaning up after CIA trying to ensure that if one of the things that Trump declassified is Crossfire Hurricane info proving that it was part of oppo research on behalf of Clinton, that it never sees the light of day.  Unfortunately this misuse of the FBI goes back decades since we know that many many politicians were terrified of the dirt that J Edgar Hoover collected on them over the years.  We have FBI agents testifying that they planted explosives in a vehicle used by one of the Whitmer goobs just to be able to seize it as evidence and that an undercover slept in the same bed and smoked dope with one of the Whitmer goobs, in villain of the law. If they were willing to do that, they're willing to engage in shenanigans regarding the one guy in politics who can't be bought and who is capable of burying them all.

Meanwhile, a guy who was on the FBI's radar tried to shoot up the Cincinnati field office and an Iran supporter just tried to scuff Rushdie.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 01:03:42 PM by 3catcircus »

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #447 on: August 13, 2022, 01:09:39 PM »
Also being overlooked is that none of the statutes listed in the search warrant actually require the documents to be classified.
Have they made the warrant public? I must have missed that.

Yes. Garland claimed they would release it unless Trump objected. He called Garland's bluff by immediately requesting the warrant to be released. It's an overly-broad warrant that is very likely to be ruled by a judge to be unconstitutional in violation of the 4th Amendment because it is looking for *any* documents that were during Trump's term of office. The property receipts list some classified documents without specifying what they were - all of which Trump and his aides confirmed were declassified before he left office. Also in the fridge we're things like Roger Stone's clemency document - none of it having to do with nuclear anything. Just so people understand - DoE documents are not marked the same as other classified documents - they would be either RD or CNWDI - none of which were indicated in the property receipt.

The affidavit is still sealed - and that is more important as it will detail what the PC was to get the warrant - and I think we'll find that whoever submitted the affidavit will need to get their affairs in order and clear their calendar (and how a good lawyer) to defend against a false official statement charge.
How.can you be confident that all of the documents were declassified when you state the documents collected were not specified?
Because the staffers who pulled the documents to be packed and the lawyers who examined them with the FBI in June have stated that Trump declassified the documents.  It's that simple.
And you are absolutely sure these are the same documents? I don't think we know that for certain at this point as the documents taken thus week have not been released to the public. You are, of course, entitled to believe what you wish, but I'll wait to see what happens.

It doesn't really matter what was seized - by virtue of the fact that they were shipped to him and were in storage at Mir-a-Lago means that they were declassified before the GSA packed them and shipped them to Florida.  Unless you are suggesting that there was some man in the middle attack where someone snuck out documents, intercepted the shipment, and swapped them out?

Here's the thing - any president has the authority to declassify things under their own recognizance. They don't need to follow any formal process. 

The left are arguing that he needed permission to declassify them.  Why would a president need permission to declassify from a subordinate whose authority has been delegated *from* the president?

Garland and Wray whined about the DoJ and FBI being harassed because they're all patriotic do-gooders - and immediately thereafter one of them leaked "we're looking for nukular secretz!!" to the press.

Why did the judge who was "assigned" the job of authorizing the warrant recuse himself from the Trump v. Clinton trial days before he was "assigned" the job?  How could he possibly know to recuse himself? What did he knew and when did he know it - and who assigned him? What's the odds of the FBI agent who worked J6 also being involved in this raid? What are the chances of him being the affiant on the affidavit that produced the warrant to raid MaL? 

The problem here is the AG and FBI director have allowed their agencies to become the DNC's Gestapo.  Some have speculated that this is FBI cleaning up after CIA trying to ensure that if one of the things that Trump declassified is Crossfire Hurricane info proving that it was part of oppo research on behalf of Clinton, that it never sees the light of day.  Unfortunately this misuse of the FBI goes back decades since we know that many many politicians were terrified of the dirt that J Edgar Hoover collected on them over the years.  We have FBI agents testifying that they planted explosives in a vehicle used by one of the Whitmer goobs just to be able to seize it as evidence and that an undercover slept in the same bed and smoked dope with one of the Whitmer goobs, in villain of the law. If they were willing to do that, they're willing to engage in shenanigans regarding the one guy in politics who can't be bought and who is capable of burying them all.

Meanwhile, a guy who was on the FBI's radar tried to shoot up the Cincinnati field office and an Iran supporter just tried to scuff Rushdie.
The only thing I'm suggesting is that there is not enough publicly available information to know for certain what was found and exactly how it will be used in furthering the warrant. I prefer not to speculate here, and would rather wait and see the outcome rather than jumping to conclusions.

Koltar

  • Openly GURPS Loving
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8328
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #448 on: August 13, 2022, 05:55:15 PM »


Would that be the FBI version of doing "J Edgar Hoover cosplay"?

- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #449 on: August 14, 2022, 04:27:10 PM »
  This another case of a fed informant creating a crime?  The feds seem pretty good at creating crimes they rush in to solve.  I know a deputy who was set up and assassinated a few days ago.  Lots of people know cops that this happened to.  How about the shitbird in DC decide to do something about that sort of thing and STFU about orange man making them mad?