This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Biden's Cascade of Failure!  (Read 82094 times)

Eirikrautha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #420 on: August 11, 2022, 09:20:25 PM »
You're ignoring the part where they knew what he had and asked that an additional lock be placed on the storage room - because the Trump folks had already been working with them to disposition documents that the Government Services Administration *sent* to Mar-a-Lago. Stop acting like he did a Sandy Berger and snuck off with them.

Of course he is.  You're talking about a room-temperature IQ on that one.

Besides, that's exactly the narrative the FBI is aiming for.  Let's review what we know.  Trump declassified a large number of documents by executive order, mostly relating to the Russia collusion investigation by the DOJ and FBI against him.  Despite declassification, they were never released to the public or media.  When he left office, the National Archives requested Trump turn over his documents, including the bunch of those he declassified about Russiagate.  The reporter John Solomon has stated that he recently put in a FOIA request for those documents with the National Archives, and the Archives discovered they didn't have the documents.  Then, when asked, Trump's camp told Solomon that they handed over those documents to the DOJ at the DOJ's request.  The Archives says they never got any documents from the DOJ.  Now the FBI is searching Trump's house looking for the documents Trump claims he's already turned over.

Considering that Trump, his lawyers, and a number of reporters all assert that the documents in question suggest malfeasance on the part of the FBI and DOJ, what makes more sense?  Trump has declassified documents that show the FBI and DOJ acted with bias and malice towards him, but he's hiding those documents from the public and the Archives so that they can't be accessed by Solomon.  Or that the DOJ has the documents and the FBI is performing kabuki theatre raids in order to pretend that Trump still has them, so that the documents never have to be turned over and released to the public (via the Archives)?  Cui Bono?

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #421 on: August 11, 2022, 11:29:19 PM »
You're ignoring the part where they knew what he had and asked that an additional lock be placed on the storage room - because the Trump folks had already been working with them to disposition documents that the Government Services Administration *sent* to Mar-a-Lago. Stop acting like he did a Sandy Berger and snuck off with them.

Of course he is.  You're talking about a room-temperature IQ on that one.

Besides, that's exactly the narrative the FBI is aiming for.  Let's review what we know.  Trump declassified a large number of documents by executive order, mostly relating to the Russia collusion investigation by the DOJ and FBI against him.  Despite declassification, they were never released to the public or media.  When he left office, the National Archives requested Trump turn over his documents, including the bunch of those he declassified about Russiagate.  The reporter John Solomon has stated that he recently put in a FOIA request for those documents with the National Archives, and the Archives discovered they didn't have the documents.  Then, when asked, Trump's camp told Solomon that they handed over those documents to the DOJ at the DOJ's request.  The Archives says they never got any documents from the DOJ.  Now the FBI is searching Trump's house looking for the documents Trump claims he's already turned over.

Considering that Trump, his lawyers, and a number of reporters all assert that the documents in question suggest malfeasance on the part of the FBI and DOJ, what makes more sense?  Trump has declassified documents that show the FBI and DOJ acted with bias and malice towards him, but he's hiding those documents from the public and the Archives so that they can't be accessed by Solomon.  Or that the DOJ has the documents and the FBI is performing kabuki theatre raids in order to pretend that Trump still has them, so that the documents never have to be turned over and released to the public (via the Archives)?  Cui Bono?

I wouldn't even conclude either of those scenarios is the most likely. We're talking about government, so it's even odds that they were already in process to be sent, were sent and still stuck in the process of being delivered to DoJ, received and misfiled by DoJ, or simply sitting in someone's queue at DoJ and haven't even been looked at yet.

Classified material is like porno - when it is mailed, it's in a plain wrapper, so there is no way of knowing what it is (or even that it is classified) until you open the outer wrapper and see the markings on the inner wrapper to match it up with the transmittal documents

What would be great is if Trump's people continue to let DoJ and FBI embarrass themselves a little while longer before producing the registered mail receipts showing the documents they were looking for had already been sent weeks prior.

I'm also hearing reports that DoJ is starting to panic over the realization that security cameras that were still recording may have caught them exceeding the authority of what they could search specified in the warrant (with the speculation that they may have engaged in illegal activities during the raid).  That is - if they spent 9+ hrs doing a fishing expedition, that is clearly a violation of the 4A since the warrant *has* to be specific ("nuclear launch codes located in a safe in a secure area in his home office" rather than "anything that he might have in his house that is marked as classified.") If they talked about their motivation for the raid or are seen planting evidence - game over.

The real issue here is that GSA *sent* these documents to him when he left office - like they do with many presidents after they leave office.

I do hope Trump runs again and wins. He should do the following:

1. Immediately give every political appointee the boot.  4000 mouth breathers that will no longer be burdens on the taxpayer.
2. Immediately rescind as many EOs as he can without jeopardizing national security.
3. Immediately declassify everything that isn't military or sources/methods. All of it. Too much stuff is classified because it hides violations of the constitution by government (fast and furious, cointelpro, NSA surveillance of US citizens, etc.), because it is politically embarrassing to other governments (yes every government spies on their allies), or because it is proof that a particular politician has broken the law (drugs, sex crimes, murders, etc.)
4. Have a "you fucking guys" discussion with every shitbag RINO to make it abundantly clear that they had better get their act together or they're out.
5. Pressure Congress to enact term limits in the law - utilizing all of those declassified files as political leverage.

Eirikrautha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #422 on: August 12, 2022, 09:40:49 AM »
You're ignoring the part where they knew what he had and asked that an additional lock be placed on the storage room - because the Trump folks had already been working with them to disposition documents that the Government Services Administration *sent* to Mar-a-Lago. Stop acting like he did a Sandy Berger and snuck off with them.

Of course he is.  You're talking about a room-temperature IQ on that one.

Besides, that's exactly the narrative the FBI is aiming for.  Let's review what we know.  Trump declassified a large number of documents by executive order, mostly relating to the Russia collusion investigation by the DOJ and FBI against him.  Despite declassification, they were never released to the public or media.  When he left office, the National Archives requested Trump turn over his documents, including the bunch of those he declassified about Russiagate.  The reporter John Solomon has stated that he recently put in a FOIA request for those documents with the National Archives, and the Archives discovered they didn't have the documents.  Then, when asked, Trump's camp told Solomon that they handed over those documents to the DOJ at the DOJ's request.  The Archives says they never got any documents from the DOJ.  Now the FBI is searching Trump's house looking for the documents Trump claims he's already turned over.

Considering that Trump, his lawyers, and a number of reporters all assert that the documents in question suggest malfeasance on the part of the FBI and DOJ, what makes more sense?  Trump has declassified documents that show the FBI and DOJ acted with bias and malice towards him, but he's hiding those documents from the public and the Archives so that they can't be accessed by Solomon.  Or that the DOJ has the documents and the FBI is performing kabuki theatre raids in order to pretend that Trump still has them, so that the documents never have to be turned over and released to the public (via the Archives)?  Cui Bono?

I wouldn't even conclude either of those scenarios is the most likely. We're talking about government, so it's even odds that they were already in process to be sent, were sent and still stuck in the process of being delivered to DoJ, received and misfiled by DoJ, or simply sitting in someone's queue at DoJ and haven't even been looked at yet.

Classified material is like porno - when it is mailed, it's in a plain wrapper, so there is no way of knowing what it is (or even that it is classified) until you open the outer wrapper and see the markings on the inner wrapper to match it up with the transmittal documents

What would be great is if Trump's people continue to let DoJ and FBI embarrass themselves a little while longer before producing the registered mail receipts showing the documents they were looking for had already been sent weeks prior.

I'm also hearing reports that DoJ is starting to panic over the realization that security cameras that were still recording may have caught them exceeding the authority of what they could search specified in the warrant (with the speculation that they may have engaged in illegal activities during the raid).  That is - if they spent 9+ hrs doing a fishing expedition, that is clearly a violation of the 4A since the warrant *has* to be specific ("nuclear launch codes located in a safe in a secure area in his home office" rather than "anything that he might have in his house that is marked as classified.") If they talked about their motivation for the raid or are seen planting evidence - game over.

The real issue here is that GSA *sent* these documents to him when he left office - like they do with many presidents after they leave office.

I do hope Trump runs again and wins. He should do the following:

1. Immediately give every political appointee the boot.  4000 mouth breathers that will no longer be burdens on the taxpayer.
2. Immediately rescind as many EOs as he can without jeopardizing national security.
3. Immediately declassify everything that isn't military or sources/methods. All of it. Too much stuff is classified because it hides violations of the constitution by government (fast and furious, cointelpro, NSA surveillance of US citizens, etc.), because it is politically embarrassing to other governments (yes every government spies on their allies), or because it is proof that a particular politician has broken the law (drugs, sex crimes, murders, etc.)
4. Have a "you fucking guys" discussion with every shitbag RINO to make it abundantly clear that they had better get their act together or they're out.
5. Pressure Congress to enact term limits in the law - utilizing all of those declassified files as political leverage.

Ehhh, I don't think any of these documents were mailed.  They were hand delivered.  And there's no way the DOJ doesn't know the location of documents purporting to show their malfeasance if they are in their possession.  I think most people are overthinking this whole situation.  Watergate was nothing more than a lawyer trying to get incriminating documents about his girlfriend from someone else's opposition research, and it snowballed.  This is nothing more than the FBI trying to cover its tracks.  The simple explanation is usually the correct one.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #423 on: August 12, 2022, 09:55:48 AM »
You're ignoring the part where they knew what he had and asked that an additional lock be placed on the storage room - because the Trump folks had already been working with them to disposition documents that the Government Services Administration *sent* to Mar-a-Lago. Stop acting like he did a Sandy Berger and snuck off with them.

Of course he is.  You're talking about a room-temperature IQ on that one.

Besides, that's exactly the narrative the FBI is aiming for.  Let's review what we know.  Trump declassified a large number of documents by executive order, mostly relating to the Russia collusion investigation by the DOJ and FBI against him.  Despite declassification, they were never released to the public or media.  When he left office, the National Archives requested Trump turn over his documents, including the bunch of those he declassified about Russiagate.  The reporter John Solomon has stated that he recently put in a FOIA request for those documents with the National Archives, and the Archives discovered they didn't have the documents.  Then, when asked, Trump's camp told Solomon that they handed over those documents to the DOJ at the DOJ's request.  The Archives says they never got any documents from the DOJ.  Now the FBI is searching Trump's house looking for the documents Trump claims he's already turned over.

Considering that Trump, his lawyers, and a number of reporters all assert that the documents in question suggest malfeasance on the part of the FBI and DOJ, what makes more sense?  Trump has declassified documents that show the FBI and DOJ acted with bias and malice towards him, but he's hiding those documents from the public and the Archives so that they can't be accessed by Solomon.  Or that the DOJ has the documents and the FBI is performing kabuki theatre raids in order to pretend that Trump still has them, so that the documents never have to be turned over and released to the public (via the Archives)?  Cui Bono?

I wouldn't even conclude either of those scenarios is the most likely. We're talking about government, so it's even odds that they were already in process to be sent, were sent and still stuck in the process of being delivered to DoJ, received and misfiled by DoJ, or simply sitting in someone's queue at DoJ and haven't even been looked at yet.

Classified material is like porno - when it is mailed, it's in a plain wrapper, so there is no way of knowing what it is (or even that it is classified) until you open the outer wrapper and see the markings on the inner wrapper to match it up with the transmittal documents

What would be great is if Trump's people continue to let DoJ and FBI embarrass themselves a little while longer before producing the registered mail receipts showing the documents they were looking for had already been sent weeks prior.

I'm also hearing reports that DoJ is starting to panic over the realization that security cameras that were still recording may have caught them exceeding the authority of what they could search specified in the warrant (with the speculation that they may have engaged in illegal activities during the raid).  That is - if they spent 9+ hrs doing a fishing expedition, that is clearly a violation of the 4A since the warrant *has* to be specific ("nuclear launch codes located in a safe in a secure area in his home office" rather than "anything that he might have in his house that is marked as classified.") If they talked about their motivation for the raid or are seen planting evidence - game over.

The real issue here is that GSA *sent* these documents to him when he left office - like they do with many presidents after they leave office.

I do hope Trump runs again and wins. He should do the following:

1. Immediately give every political appointee the boot.  4000 mouth breathers that will no longer be burdens on the taxpayer.
2. Immediately rescind as many EOs as he can without jeopardizing national security.
3. Immediately declassify everything that isn't military or sources/methods. All of it. Too much stuff is classified because it hides violations of the constitution by government (fast and furious, cointelpro, NSA surveillance of US citizens, etc.), because it is politically embarrassing to other governments (yes every government spies on their allies), or because it is proof that a particular politician has broken the law (drugs, sex crimes, murders, etc.)
4. Have a "you fucking guys" discussion with every shitbag RINO to make it abundantly clear that they had better get their act together or they're out.
5. Pressure Congress to enact term limits in the law - utilizing all of those declassified files as political leverage.

Ehhh, I don't think any of these documents were mailed.  They were hand delivered.  And there's no way the DOJ doesn't know the location of documents purporting to show their malfeasance if they are in their possession.  I think most people are overthinking this whole situation.  Watergate was nothing more than a lawyer trying to get incriminating documents about his girlfriend from someone else's opposition research, and it snowballed.  This is nothing more than the FBI trying to cover its tracks.  The simple explanation is usually the correct one.

Classified material is mailed by USPS *all the time* because that's the *only* method other than hand-carry or designated freight forwarder that is allowed. No one is going to authorize government employees to hand-carry with the associated per diem costs of travel when throwing them in the mail costs less, and I doubt any of Trump's people have courier cards.

The simple explanation is that the Biden admin (not Biden himself since he's a drooling idiot figurehead) panicked after seeing all of the Trump-endorsed primary wins and knowing that their horse has a high chance of an L in those districts come November - so anything they can do to discredit his anointed candidates...

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #424 on: August 12, 2022, 01:53:17 PM »
I'm seeing some interesting speculation that this didn't actually come out of the White House, but was actually all Garland. He was out for revenge, because Trump and McConnell cockblocked that son of a bitch from ending up on SCOTUS. He's showing his true colors now. My guess is that he wanted to present the raid as a fait accompli.

The problem with that is that to present a fait accompli, you have to actually accomplish something, and all he's managed to do is damage the current regime even further. They're running around 'leaking' information that the FBI suspected Trump of having 'nuclear secrets' (sure he did, buddy) that he was going to give to his Bestest Buddy Forevah Vlad Putin.

(I can't imagine why that would bother them. The left's been licking the anuses of Russian spies for decades.)

Eirikrautha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #425 on: August 12, 2022, 02:36:44 PM »
I'm seeing some interesting speculation that this didn't actually come out of the White House, but was actually all Garland. He was out for revenge, because Trump and McConnell cockblocked that son of a bitch from ending up on SCOTUS. He's showing his true colors now. My guess is that he wanted to present the raid as a fait accompli.

The problem with that is that to present a fait accompli, you have to actually accomplish something, and all he's managed to do is damage the current regime even further. They're running around 'leaking' information that the FBI suspected Trump of having 'nuclear secrets' (sure he did, buddy) that he was going to give to his Bestest Buddy Forevah Vlad Putin.

(I can't imagine why that would bother them. The left's been licking the anuses of Russian spies for decades.)
As everyone suspected, the FBI "found" documents that Trump's lawyer asserts were already declassified (in fact a DOD official under Trump, Kash Patel, has already stated in the media that he was present when Trump declassified the documents in question during his presidency).  The markings on the documents may have been the original classification stamps, but once declassified the stamps do not matter.  So, yeah, another manufactured "crime" that will be litigated in Trump's favor years down the road, but used to smear him in the present for political reasons.  And the declassified documents of the FBI/DOJ malfeasance during Russiagate are still missing...

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #426 on: August 12, 2022, 04:06:30 PM »
Contrary to popular belief, the President's power to declassify unilaterally is not absolute. Certain materials would still need to be signed off on by others, regardless of the President's  wishes. Part of the reason for the warrant, according to DoJ, was that some of these materials were not declassified, and are so sensitive that they are only supposed to be viewed by a few select people, and even then, only in a SCIF.

Edit: it is also entirely possible for someone who has the legal authority to posses documents such as these (if Trump did, which I doubt but can't really say with certainty either way) to handle them in such a way as to constitute a violation of the Espionage Act, and/or other laws. This idea that the President can simply take whatever state secrets he pleases, roll them up, put them in his back pocket, and do with them whatever he wants, is simply incorrect.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 04:26:46 PM by Tubesock Army »

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #427 on: August 12, 2022, 05:25:01 PM »
Contrary to popular belief, the President's power to declassify unilaterally is not absolute. Certain materials would still need to be signed off on by others, regardless of the President's  wishes. Part of the reason for the warrant, according to DoJ, was that some of these materials were not declassified, and are so sensitive that they are only supposed to be viewed by a few select people, and even then, only in a SCIF.

Edit: it is also entirely possible for someone who has the legal authority to posses documents such as these (if Trump did, which I doubt but can't really say with certainty either way) to handle them in such a way as to constitute a violation of the Espionage Act, and/or other laws. This idea that the President can simply take whatever state secrets he pleases, roll them up, put them in his back pocket, and do with them whatever he wants, is simply incorrect.

You'd, yet again, be incorrect. SCOTUS has already ruled that the Espionage Act does *not* apply to the President (and the President alone) for nearly every category of classified info. By virtue of being the head of government a president has the authority to declassify anything at any time - guided by EOs that are non-binding on him or by his whim.  Once he decides to declassify, it's done, and it doesn't matter how they were originally marked, handled, or stored.  Unless it is RD or CNWDI or the identity of spies, a president doesn't have to do anything other than will it to be unclassified.

One of Trump's aides has already stated that he was present when Trump declared these documents to be declassified - well before he left office.

You know who *didn't* have the ability to magically declassify stuff?  Cankles Clinton with her illegal server and her 30,000 emails. She was most definitely subject to the Espionage Act and *nothing* happened to her.

Reading the warrant reveals it to be a fishing expedition since they were looking for *any* documents generated during his presidency.  It's overly-broad in violation of the 4th amendment.  This is very likely the FBI trying to clean up after the CIA, except they forgot they're not dealing with a politician who has adhered to the rules of the DC game. They're terrified that he'll run again and win and have a Republican Congress and a conservative SCOTUS - a second term means honey badger don't give a shit about the administrative state and will burn it all down and name names and declassify the proof of how crooked every single one of them is. They're especially terrified that their position as boyars all goes away and they'll no longer be able to grift on the backs of the US citizenry.

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #428 on: August 12, 2022, 05:38:13 PM »
Contrary to popular belief, the President's power to declassify unilaterally is not absolute. Certain materials would still need to be signed off on by others, regardless of the President's  wishes. Part of the reason for the warrant, according to DoJ, was that some of these materials were not declassified, and are so sensitive that they are only supposed to be viewed by a few select people, and even then, only in a SCIF.

Edit: it is also entirely possible for someone who has the legal authority to posses documents such as these (if Trump did, which I doubt but can't really say with certainty either way) to handle them in such a way as to constitute a violation of the Espionage Act, and/or other laws. This idea that the President can simply take whatever state secrets he pleases, roll them up, put them in his back pocket, and do with them whatever he wants, is simply incorrect.

You'd, yet again, be incorrect. SCOTUS has already ruled that the Espionage Act does *not* apply to the President (and the President alone) for nearly every category of classified info. By virtue of being the head of government a president has the authority to declassify anything at any time - guided by EOs that are non-binding on him or by his whim.  Once he decides to declassify, it's done, and it doesn't matter how they were originally marked, handled, or stored.  Unless it is RD or CNWDI or the identity of spies, a president doesn't have to do anything other than will it to be unclassified.

One of Trump's aides has already stated that he was present when Trump declared these documents to be declassified - well before he left office.

You know who *didn't* have the ability to magically declassify stuff?  Cankles Clinton with her illegal server and her 30,000 emails. She was most definitely subject to the Espionage Act and *nothing* happened to her.

Reading the warrant reveals it to be a fishing expedition since they were looking for *any* documents generated during his presidency.  It's overly-broad in violation of the 4th amendment.  This is very likely the FBI trying to clean up after the CIA, except they forgot they're not dealing with a politician who has adhered to the rules of the DC game. They're terrified that he'll run again and win and have a Republican Congress and a conservative SCOTUS - a second term means honey badger don't give a shit about the administrative state and will burn it all down and name names and declassify the proof of how crooked every single one of them is. They're especially terrified that their position as boyars all goes away and they'll no longer be able to grift on the backs of the US citizenry.

This is wrong. Even wrt stuff the Prez has the authority to declassify unilaterally, there is sometimes (but not always) a process to be followed, not simply a verbal willing of the material in question to be declassified. That's actually part of the issue here, is that Trump is claiming that he "declassified" stuff, for which the necessary declassification steps have not been taken.

There are be some things that can be declassified by a handwave, but not everything is like that. I will again point out that it is also possible to commit violations of the Espionage Act with material that has been declassified, or was never classified. And that the documents at the heart of this search contain examples of those where the Presidential power to declassify is sharply curtailed.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 06:01:12 PM by Tubesock Army »

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #429 on: August 12, 2022, 06:11:06 PM »
Contrary to popular belief, the President's power to declassify unilaterally is not absolute. Certain materials would still need to be signed off on by others, regardless of the President's  wishes. Part of the reason for the warrant, according to DoJ, was that some of these materials were not declassified, and are so sensitive that they are only supposed to be viewed by a few select people, and even then, only in a SCIF.

Edit: it is also entirely possible for someone who has the legal authority to posses documents such as these (if Trump did, which I doubt but can't really say with certainty either way) to handle them in such a way as to constitute a violation of the Espionage Act, and/or other laws. This idea that the President can simply take whatever state secrets he pleases, roll them up, put them in his back pocket, and do with them whatever he wants, is simply incorrect.

You'd, yet again, be incorrect. SCOTUS has already ruled that the Espionage Act does *not* apply to the President (and the President alone) for nearly every category of classified info. By virtue of being the head of government a president has the authority to declassify anything at any time - guided by EOs that are non-binding on him or by his whim.  Once he decides to declassify, it's done, and it doesn't matter how they were originally marked, handled, or stored.  Unless it is RD or CNWDI or the identity of spies, a president doesn't have to do anything other than will it to be unclassified.

One of Trump's aides has already stated that he was present when Trump declared these documents to be declassified - well before he left office.

You know who *didn't* have the ability to magically declassify stuff?  Cankles Clinton with her illegal server and her 30,000 emails. She was most definitely subject to the Espionage Act and *nothing* happened to her.

Reading the warrant reveals it to be a fishing expedition since they were looking for *any* documents generated during his presidency.  It's overly-broad in violation of the 4th amendment.  This is very likely the FBI trying to clean up after the CIA, except they forgot they're not dealing with a politician who has adhered to the rules of the DC game. They're terrified that he'll run again and win and have a Republican Congress and a conservative SCOTUS - a second term means honey badger don't give a shit about the administrative state and will burn it all down and name names and declassify the proof of how crooked every single one of them is. They're especially terrified that their position as boyars all goes away and they'll no longer be able to grift on the backs of the US citizenry.

This is wrong. Even wrt stuff the Prez has the authority to declassify unilaterally, there is often a process to be followed, not simply a verbal willing of the material in question to be declassified. That's actually part of the issue here, is that Trump is claiming that he "declassified" stuff, for which the necessary declassification steps have not been taken.

There may be some things that can be declassified by a handwave, but not everything is like that. I will again point out that it is also possible to commit violations of the Espionage Act with material that has been declassified, or was never classified.

No, no there isn't. Presidents have the authority to declassify and disclose almost any classified info without following any process. "Make it so" is literally good enough. Presidents are not required to follow any procedures other than those that they themselves prescribe.  In fact, it previously came up when Trump disclosed one ally's FGI to another ally when it was invoiced in a classified document (a photo) of bombing a terrorist site - he literally posted it as a tweet with the classification markings still on it and it was legal to do so. A president has extremely broad powers in these matters that simply do not apply to his subordinates or anyone else in government.

As to the espionage act - one would have to have proof of some kind that he intended to harm the US or aid enemies using the info in his possession.  A "well, he could have" isn't that proof or it would apply to every former president in possession of information.  It needs to be proof that he was going to sell or give defense information to China, Russia, Syria, etc.  DoJ doesn't have that proof because it doesn't exist.  Again, you know who the espionage act applies to? Cankles who bleach bitted her server and physically destroyed phones even after being told to preserve records.

It's a fishing expedition and it will continue to get more embarrassing for the Biden admin. It's looking more and more like Garland realized there was nothing that would come out of the J6 persecutions to incriminate Trump, so this was his hail mary attempt and he ended up stomping on his own dick. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 06:12:56 PM by 3catcircus »

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #430 on: August 12, 2022, 06:18:37 PM »
Yeah, no. There are definitely state secrets that defy the President's unilateral declassification authority. There are different levels of "classified", and they're not all treated the same with regard to Presidential authority. Presidents enjoy broad - but not unchecked - power in this regard.

And, again, the handling of even unclassififed documents can be a crime under two of the laws cited in the warrant.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #431 on: August 12, 2022, 07:45:43 PM »
Yeah, no. There are definitely state secrets that defy the President's unilateral declassification authority. There are different levels of "classified", and they're not all treated the same with regard to Presidential authority. Presidents enjoy broad - but not unchecked - power in this regard.

And, again, the handling of even unclassififed documents can be a crime under two of the laws cited in the warrant.

Do you really wanna play this game?

Are you an OCA? How do you mark CUI that is to be shared with our allies? What is an SCG? What is a trigraph? How do you mark working papers? What is a Distro Statement F and how does it differ from Distro A, C, or D? How many levels of US classification can UKOS equate to? What does a DoE Q or L clearance equate to and do you need it to access RD or FRD? What is the primary difference in having a S vs TS clearance? What is aggregation as it relates to whether or not something is classified? How do you store classified FGI? How does classified info get handled in regards to sharing with our allies? What is the difference between exportability and releasability? What is the difference between release and disclosure?

If you can't answer these questions without googling it, you're out of your swim lane when it comes to generating, marking, and handling classified and unclassified data, who has the authority to declassify things, and why the President is unique in this regard.

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #432 on: August 12, 2022, 09:25:39 PM »
The fact that no, the President does not have unfettered unilateral power to declassify whatever he wants is easy enough to verify. You can throw as many acronyms as you like at that, it won't become any less true.

Tubesock Army
BANNED

  • Banned For Doxxing
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 534
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #433 on: August 12, 2022, 09:29:57 PM »
And, again, classification is only part of the issue here. Mishandling of de-classified, or never classified, material, can still be illegal.


3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #434 on: August 12, 2022, 09:34:44 PM »
The fact that no, the President does not have unfettered unilateral power to declassify whatever he wants is easy enough to verify. You can throw as many acronyms as you like at that, it won't become any less true.

I see this is the part of the show where you do your best Shawn Eckardt impression in the face of undeniable proof that you're wrong. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnV90AgHQHA

No one said he could declassify everything - I stated as much. But what was seized is *not* RD or CNWDI or the identity of our spies.  Doesn't matter if it is labeled C/S/TS - if he declassified it, it's declassified. Just because he has defense information isn't a violation of the espionage act.  That the info was in storage means that he wasn't trying to destroy or hide it - espionage act still doesn't apply

News flash - CUI (the former FOUO or SBU) and declassified info (which would become CUI) does not require a GSA approved container or a SCIF - it just needs to be stored where it won't be casually taken and not strewn about for randos to look at while your reading it - a locked desk drawer is sufficient to store it when your done with it. If it is declassified and not CUI, then there are *no* restrictions in how  it gets handled.  Don't believe me?  Here's the link to a formerly confidential document located on a public website: https://maritime.org/doc/attack/index.php

That the warrant was looking for*any* documents during his presidency is so overly-broad in violation of 4A, it'll get tossed in court. But Garland knew that already and it isn't about Trump breaking the law (he didn't) - it's about inconveniencing him and distracting from the Biden admin shitshow going into the mid-terms.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 09:50:21 PM by 3catcircus »