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Author Topic: Biden's Cascade of Failure!  (Read 82114 times)

Pat
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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #330 on: July 02, 2022, 02:21:26 AM »
The Crusoe analogy works well for me in helping me understand this, actually. Especially how him investing more time leads to more future improvement. I've heard that because their needs are mostly day to day, the poor help drive consumption. So I heard that a good form of economic stimulus if consumption is down is to try to help the poor through tax cuts or food stamps or welfare or subsidies or whatever, because if you give them a way or incentive to spend then they usually will. Though I guess the flip to that is that because they need the money now it might be harder for them to save or invest. Is that part of the idea behind trickle down economics or at least the alternate speculation (?) of the middle class as an engine of growth? Basically don't help the poor now but have the money and economic growth to theoretically do it later if they can survive the meantime?

Also, I could've sworn Biden promised money to the middle class and economic growth. Does that then mean he's making a compromise to some extent on aiding the poor, because of the above reasoning, just not admitting it? Seems kinda duplicitous if so and he isn't acknowledging that. (Though to be fair, dunno if the average American could really follow along in a complex economic plan, and in fact I'm not 100% sure I myself understand even the basics of what he promised, per se.) Also don’t rich people invest a lot? If so, wouldn’t targeting them be anti-growth? Kinda seems like he’s claiming we can have our cake and eat it too.
The argument for savings comes from classical, i.e. traditional economics. The consumption argument comes from Keynes, who argued that economic downturns are caused by a failure in public confidence. As people worry about the future, so they start to put money in savings accounts rather than spending. Since money flows from hand to hand through the economy, when someone feels insecure and pulls money out of the system, this takes money out of the hands of other people who would have otherwise received the money. And those people in turn will start to hoard money (lowering aggregate demand), which collectively will lead to an economic slump. The solution he proposed is for the central government to spend lots of money, increasing confidence by buying services and things, thereby putting money into people's hands, who will put it into new hands by spending it, thereby kickstarting the flow of money again. Basically, the idea is that it's all psychological and the technocrats can smooth out economic cycles by manipulating the money supply. This is the belief held by mainstream (new Keynsian) economists, like those of the Fed. In this theory, consumption is key.

In contrast, the Austrians think that's nonsense. (This is the view of pretty much anyone who criticizes the Fed.) They believe the boom-bust business cycle is caused by monetary inflation (printing money), which leads people to think there's more real wealth in the economy than there really is, resulting in them throwing lots of money at marginal investments. But since printing money doesn't actually increase the amount of wealth in the economy, this leads to a crash as people realize they've overextended themselves, and they have pull their resources out of the bad investments and put it to more efficient use. Recessions are needed to reallocate resources, and if they're not allowed to happen (say by printing even more money), then even more resources become misallocated and the eventual and inevitable crash will be even bigger. In this theory, production is key.

These two views aren't compatible. If it sounds complex or confusing, it's because because this is well beyond basic economics and into the conflict between two major schools of thought in economics.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 02:25:30 AM by Pat »

DocJones

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #331 on: July 02, 2022, 07:17:50 AM »
These two views aren't compatible. If it sounds complex or confusing, it's because because this is well beyond basic economics and into the conflict between two major schools of thought in economics.
It's the perfect time for Fear the Boom and Bust: Keynes vs. Hayek - The Original Economics Rap Battle!

I

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #332 on: July 02, 2022, 12:25:05 PM »
Pssst!  Hey, all you fucktards blaming Biden for gas prices?

Guess what, shitheads?  THE FUCKING KEYSTONE PIPELINE WASN'T GOING TO BE FINISHED AND ONLINE UNTIL 2030 IN ANY CASE!

NOW STOP LIEING ABOUT GAS PRICES!!!

By that standard, shouldn't gas prices have been just as high under Trump?  But they weren't.  Gas was about $2.00 per gallon.  (As a side note,  Americans could not only find peanut butter on their grocery store shelves, they could afford to buy a jar of it).

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #333 on: July 02, 2022, 12:36:29 PM »
See, here's the best part. The whole 'we must move to green energy' is just an extension of the grift that was running under Obama.

Because for all the talk about windmills and solar and whatnot, notice they don't discuss power transmission/distribution. What do you think will happen to the current grid if we all plug electric cars into it?

Yeah. It's gonna pop. Once again, supply and demand: if your power demand outstrips your supply and capability to deliver, you're gonna have a bad time.

They COULD have addressed this with crash nuclear construction programs. But you see, that's not the game. The game is to make sure the elite have power -- literally and figuratively -- while the proles are devolved back to practically pre-industrial lifestyles.

Battlemaster
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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #334 on: July 02, 2022, 04:08:47 PM »
Ghost maker, pay close attention to this as I am likely to only say it once.

I.       Agreeee.         Www wit h.      Yyyy ooooooooooou.

God that was hard to type.

Yeah, I'm a hard leftist who is agnostic and still hopes there is an appropriate hell for Trump and his followers, I support green energy and eating the rich. I also know green energy is still not ready for prime time . So I support a large scale new nuclear deal program until green energy or fusion is good to go.

I've wanted to see an all new nuclear energy program in America for decades. It would be based on the worlds oldest, safest,  most efficient and effective nuclear energy program on earth, which America has access too.

It's called the United States Navy.

The usn had the first nuclear powered vessel, USS Nautilus. In 70 years there has never been a serious nuclear incident involving a USN operated nuclear reactor. In two cases where nuclear subs sank due to non Nuclear ssues the navy has monitored the wrecks and found radiation containment is functioning even under the worst case scenario.

I'd love to see a National nuclear energy program ran by the navy with as many Nuclear trained naval personnel as possible overseeing it. Private business could compete for contracts under it, but would sign aggreements placing them under military authority if they want those profits.

Designs would be strictly overseen and reviewed by naval trained nuclear experts. Construction would be overseen by naval engineers and ANY graft investigated by the JAG of the navy. Anyone caught grafting gets sent to leavenworth or another military prison ran by the finest R. Lee Ermy brand sadistic assholes the USMC could muster.


I'm willing to bet that people who've done a military career just might understand words like duty and honor. Not all of them, but more then you find in corporate America.

Plants would be run as much as possible by former or current naval nuclear trained personnel. If civilian employees are required they'd be screened and trained by naval standards abd subject to near militiary discipline.

Security would be serious and provided my either USMC personnel or people screened, trained and certified by them, also agreeing to military discipline.

But of course it can't happen. The fucking corporate pigs would oink and squeal about government control of businesses, and their republiscum politicians would have it declared unconstitutional.

Nuclear power could be wonderful for America, but corporate America has proven itself to greedy, selfish and corrupt to be entrusted with anything that powerful and dangerous. To do it right we need people with a sense of duty, honor and loyalty to America's interests.

So I'd turn it over to the squids and the jarheads.  ;)




« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 04:12:28 PM by Battlemaster »
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #335 on: July 02, 2022, 04:16:08 PM »
Ghost maker, pay close attention to this as I am likely to only say it once.

I.       Agreeee.         Www wit h.      Yyyy ooooooooooou.

God that was hard to type.

Yeah, I'm a hard leftist who is agnostic and still hopes there is an appropriate hell for Trump and his followers, I support green energy and eating the rich. I also know green energy is still not ready for prime time . So I support a large scale new nuclear deal program until green energy or fusion is good to go.

I've wanted to see an all new nuclear energy program in America for decades. It would be based on the worlds oldest, safest,  most efficierbt abd effective nuclear energy program on earth, which America has access too.

It's called the United States Navy.

The usn had the first nuclear powered vessel, USS Nautilus. In 70 years there has never been a serious nuclear incident involving a USN operated nuclear reactor. In two cases where nuclear subs sank due to non Nuclear ssues the navy has monitored the wrecks abd found radiation containment is functioning even under the worst case scenario.

I'd love to see a. National nuclear energy program ran by the navy with as many. Nuclear trained naval personnel as possible overseeing it. Private business could compete for contracts under it, but would sign aggreements. Placing them under military authority if they want those profits.

Designs would be strictly overseen and reviewed by naval trained nuclear experts. Construction would ve overseen by naval engineers and ANY graft investigated by the JAG of the navy. Anyone caught grafting gets sent to leavenworth or another military prison ran by the finest R. Lee Ermy brand sadistic assholes the USMC could muster.


I'm willing to bet that people who've done a military career just might understand words like duty and honor. Not all of them, but more then you find in corporate America.

Plants would be run as much as possible by former or current naval nuclear trained personnel. If civilian employees are required they'd be screened and trained by naval standards abd subject to near militiary discipline.

Security would be serious and provided my either USMC personnel or people screened, trained and certified by them, also agreeing to military discipline.

But of course it can't happen. The fuckibg corporate pigs would oink abd squeal about government control of businesses, and their republiscum politicians would have it declared unconstitutional.

Nuclear power could be wonderful for America, but corporate America has proven itself to greedy, selfish and corrupt to be entrusted with anything that powerful and dangerous. To do it right we need people with a sense if duty, honor and loyalty to America's interests.

So I'd turn it over to the squids and the jarheads.  ;)

  You post all this, and have complete ignorance as to what you do not know.  All Nuclear power plants in the USA are staffed with ex Navy Nucs, probably between 50-90+ percent of the people there.   Plants in the USA are the same basic design as Navy ship board plants, (insofar as overall safety and methodology to control reactor power and materials).    This was the go to job after a 6-8 year enlistment for Nucs.   the NRC has many people also from the USN.   Green people, like you, who know jack shit about who is working in the power plants, how nuclear power works, etc are the MAIN reason the industry has been more or less killed in the USA.   What you suggest as a genius move...is what has been going on in the Nuclear power industry almost since it was a thing.   Lack of trained and experienced personnel is not the problem for Nuclear power in the USA.   The problem is 4th rate lawyers who know jack shit about science end up making the rules for engineering minded competent people.   But good to see this suggestion thing but 50 years ago called and told me you are trying to steal ideas.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 04:20:36 PM by oggsmash »

jeff37923

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #336 on: July 02, 2022, 04:39:45 PM »
Ghost maker, pay close attention to this as I am likely to only say it once.

I.       Agreeee.         Www wit h.      Yyyy ooooooooooou.

God that was hard to type.

Yeah, I'm a hard leftist who is agnostic and still hopes there is an appropriate hell for Trump and his followers, I support green energy and eating the rich. I also know green energy is still not ready for prime time . So I support a large scale new nuclear deal program until green energy or fusion is good to go.

I've wanted to see an all new nuclear energy program in America for decades. It would be based on the worlds oldest, safest,  most efficierbt abd effective nuclear energy program on earth, which America has access too.

It's called the United States Navy.

The usn had the first nuclear powered vessel, USS Nautilus. In 70 years there has never been a serious nuclear incident involving a USN operated nuclear reactor. In two cases where nuclear subs sank due to non Nuclear ssues the navy has monitored the wrecks abd found radiation containment is functioning even under the worst case scenario.

I'd love to see a. National nuclear energy program ran by the navy with as many. Nuclear trained naval personnel as possible overseeing it. Private business could compete for contracts under it, but would sign aggreements. Placing them under military authority if they want those profits.

Designs would be strictly overseen and reviewed by naval trained nuclear experts. Construction would ve overseen by naval engineers and ANY graft investigated by the JAG of the navy. Anyone caught grafting gets sent to leavenworth or another military prison ran by the finest R. Lee Ermy brand sadistic assholes the USMC could muster.


I'm willing to bet that people who've done a military career just might understand words like duty and honor. Not all of them, but more then you find in corporate America.

Plants would be run as much as possible by former or current naval nuclear trained personnel. If civilian employees are required they'd be screened and trained by naval standards abd subject to near militiary discipline.

Security would be serious and provided my either USMC personnel or people screened, trained and certified by them, also agreeing to military discipline.

But of course it can't happen. The fuckibg corporate pigs would oink abd squeal about government control of businesses, and their republiscum politicians would have it declared unconstitutional.

Nuclear power could be wonderful for America, but corporate America has proven itself to greedy, selfish and corrupt to be entrusted with anything that powerful and dangerous. To do it right we need people with a sense if duty, honor and loyalty to America's interests.

So I'd turn it over to the squids and the jarheads.  ;)

  You post all this, and have complete ignorance as to what you do not know.  All Nuclear power plants in the USA are staffed with ex Navy Nucs, probably between 50-90+ percent of the people there.   Plants in the USA are the same basic design as Navy ship board plants, (insofar as overall safety and methodology to control reactor power and materials).    This was the go to job after a 6-8 year enlistment for Nucs.   the NRC has many people also from the USN.   Green people, like you, who know jack shit about who is working in the power plants, how nuclear power works, etc are the MAIN reason the industry has been more or less killed in the USA.   What you suggest as a genius move...is what has been going on in the Nuclear power industry almost since it was a thing.   Lack of trained and experienced personnel is not the problem for Nuclear power in the USA.   The problem is 4th rate lawyers who know jack shit about science end up making the rules for engineering minded competent people.   But good to see this suggestion thing but 50 years ago called and told me you are trying to steal ideas.

Former MM2 (nuc) nodding in agreement.

USS Nimitz (CVN-68). S8G Prototype. You?

EDIT: What do you think of the new Thorium reactor designs for civilian use?
"Meh."

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #337 on: July 02, 2022, 04:42:28 PM »
Ghost maker, pay close attention to this as I am likely to only say it once.

I.       Agreeee.         Www wit h.      Yyyy ooooooooooou.

God that was hard to type.

Yeah, I'm a hard leftist who is agnostic and still hopes there is an appropriate hell for Trump and his followers, I support green energy and eating the rich. I also know green energy is still not ready for prime time . So I support a large scale new nuclear deal program until green energy or fusion is good to go.

I've wanted to see an all new nuclear energy program in America for decades. It would be based on the worlds oldest, safest,  most efficierbt abd effective nuclear energy program on earth, which America has access too.

It's called the United States Navy.

The usn had the first nuclear powered vessel, USS Nautilus. In 70 years there has never been a serious nuclear incident involving a USN operated nuclear reactor. In two cases where nuclear subs sank due to non Nuclear ssues the navy has monitored the wrecks abd found radiation containment is functioning even under the worst case scenario.

I'd love to see a. National nuclear energy program ran by the navy with as many. Nuclear trained naval personnel as possible overseeing it. Private business could compete for contracts under it, but would sign aggreements. Placing them under military authority if they want those profits.

Designs would be strictly overseen and reviewed by naval trained nuclear experts. Construction would ve overseen by naval engineers and ANY graft investigated by the JAG of the navy. Anyone caught grafting gets sent to leavenworth or another military prison ran by the finest R. Lee Ermy brand sadistic assholes the USMC could muster.


I'm willing to bet that people who've done a military career just might understand words like duty and honor. Not all of them, but more then you find in corporate America.

Plants would be run as much as possible by former or current naval nuclear trained personnel. If civilian employees are required they'd be screened and trained by naval standards abd subject to near militiary discipline.

Security would be serious and provided my either USMC personnel or people screened, trained and certified by them, also agreeing to military discipline.

But of course it can't happen. The fuckibg corporate pigs would oink abd squeal about government control of businesses, and their republiscum politicians would have it declared unconstitutional.

Nuclear power could be wonderful for America, but corporate America has proven itself to greedy, selfish and corrupt to be entrusted with anything that powerful and dangerous. To do it right we need people with a sense if duty, honor and loyalty to America's interests.

So I'd turn it over to the squids and the jarheads.  ;)

  You post all this, and have complete ignorance as to what you do not know.  All Nuclear power plants in the USA are staffed with ex Navy Nucs, probably between 50-90+ percent of the people there.   Plants in the USA are the same basic design as Navy ship board plants, (insofar as overall safety and methodology to control reactor power and materials).    This was the go to job after a 6-8 year enlistment for Nucs.   the NRC has many people also from the USN.   Green people, like you, who know jack shit about who is working in the power plants, how nuclear power works, etc are the MAIN reason the industry has been more or less killed in the USA.   What you suggest as a genius move...is what has been going on in the Nuclear power industry almost since it was a thing.   Lack of trained and experienced personnel is not the problem for Nuclear power in the USA.   The problem is 4th rate lawyers who know jack shit about science end up making the rules for engineering minded competent people.   But good to see this suggestion thing but 50 years ago called and told me you are trying to steal ideas.

Former MM2 (nuc) nodding in agreement.

USS Nimitz (CVN-68). S8G Prototype. You?

   George Washington, prototype in Charleston (honestly cant remember a pet name for that sweet sub bolted to the pier), and I too was a knuckle dragger.  (edited to add: from memory I am pretty sure Washington was CVN-73, but those days are cloudy to me now).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 04:44:19 PM by oggsmash »

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #338 on: July 02, 2022, 04:58:21 PM »
  I am not sure what to make of the Thorium designs as my only real reading was over a year ago in an article discussing China going hard into it.  I remember supposedly being lower radiation, but past that I can't remember details that stuck out strongly (maybe a different coolant than water) and no data on power production.  Any good articles you would recommend?   A buddy of mine who worked in a plant till 2 years ago worked in a hydrogen fire plant after leaving (he saw the industry was being killed off and no new plants on the horizon), and he seemed to think if people want clean and disposable that might be as close as human kind is going to get. 

Battlemaster
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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #339 on: July 02, 2022, 05:20:56 PM »
Fucktard shitheads, no wonder you love trump so much.

I want to put the navy IN CHARGE OF THE NUCEAR INDUSTRY!  REGULATING IT!  ENFORCING SAFETY STANDARDS! OVERSEEING CONSTRUCTION MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION! PUTTING THEM ABOVE THE GODDAM CORPATE BLOODSUCKERS THAT GRAFTED THE THREE MILE ISLAND DESIGN TO FAILURE! MILITARY INVESTIGATION AND ENFORCEMENT! MILITARY DISCIPLINE FOR CORRUPTION!

HAVE. I. MADE. MYSELF. CLEAR.  NOW, CUMSTAIN BRAIN?!
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #340 on: July 02, 2022, 05:27:34 PM »
Fucktard shitheads, no wonder you love trump so much.

I want to put the navy IN CHARGE OF THE NUCEAR INDUSTRY!  REGULATING IT!  ENFORCING SAFETY STANDARDS! OVERSEEING CONSTRUCTION MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION! PUTTING THEM ABOVE THE GODDAM CORPATE BLOODSUCKERS THAT GRAFTED THE THREE MILE ISLAND DESIGN TO FAILURE! MILITARY INVESTIGATION AND ENFORCEMENT! MILITARY DISCIPLINE FOR CORRUPTION!

HAVE. I. MADE. MYSELF. CLEAR.  NOW, CUMSTAIN BRAIN?!


  You, are a fucking idiot.  The NRC is more or less the military both in personnel composition and standards.  3 Mile island did not fail due to some graft or weakness or corruption.  A FUCKING PRESSURE RELIEF CHECK VAVLE WAS STUCK OPEN FOR OVER 9 HOURS and NOONE BOTHERED TO CHECK IT as the light was known to malfunction, despite a roving watch that is supposed to check that area of the site every hour.   The people failed badly, and almost all of them former military and all of them under EXTREMELY strict standards and regulations.  You just have no fucking idea what you are talking about here.   The same people designing the navy reactors design and supply the civilian ones (GE is your god).  So yes it is super clear you are just an idiot.  I suggest keep ranting about hating people that love jesus, it seems more your intellectual speed.   
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 05:36:42 PM by oggsmash »

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #341 on: July 02, 2022, 05:33:43 PM »
  Regarding trying to use the UCMJ to govern civilians and their work lives.....good fucking luck getting anyone to sign up for that. 

jeff37923

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #342 on: July 02, 2022, 05:49:00 PM »
Fucktard shitheads, no wonder you love trump so much.

I want to put the navy IN CHARGE OF THE NUCEAR INDUSTRY!  REGULATING IT!  ENFORCING SAFETY STANDARDS! OVERSEEING CONSTRUCTION MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION! PUTTING THEM ABOVE THE GODDAM CORPATE BLOODSUCKERS THAT GRAFTED THE THREE MILE ISLAND DESIGN TO FAILURE! MILITARY INVESTIGATION AND ENFORCEMENT! MILITARY DISCIPLINE FOR CORRUPTION!

HAVE. I. MADE. MYSELF. CLEAR.  NOW, CUMSTAIN BRAIN?!

Dance, monkey! Dance!

This is why you get mocked so much. You are convinced of your own self-importance, except you have no real grasp of the issue you talk about. You have talking points, not deep understanding. You have news bites, but not the experience of working with the subject matter. You claim to be a Bill Maher democrat, but Bill Maher was a mouthpiece blurting out the same idiocy and Trump Derangement Syndrome that you do until it personally affected him - then that sleeper awakened from the woke. You are struggling with the woke nightmare, but you have yet to awaken from it.
"Meh."

jeff37923

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #343 on: July 02, 2022, 05:50:51 PM »
  I am not sure what to make of the Thorium designs as my only real reading was over a year ago in an article discussing China going hard into it.  I remember supposedly being lower radiation, but past that I can't remember details that stuck out strongly (maybe a different coolant than water) and no data on power production.  Any good articles you would recommend?   A buddy of mine who worked in a plant till 2 years ago worked in a hydrogen fire plant after leaving (he saw the industry was being killed off and no new plants on the horizon), and he seemed to think if people want clean and disposable that might be as close as human kind is going to get.

I'll post some in a bit. I've got to shower and get to a game I'm running tonight!
"Meh."

KindaMeh

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #344 on: July 02, 2022, 06:05:59 PM »
These two views aren't compatible. If it sounds complex or confusing, it's because because this is well beyond basic economics and into the conflict between two major schools of thought in economics.
It's the perfect time for Fear the Boom and Bust: Keynes vs. Hayek - The Original Economics Rap Battle!

This and its sequel were amazing. And now I’m a bit more motivated to try and get through the 3 books I was recommended in order to understand the more complex mechanics and actual math/research behind these schools. I want to throw hands too! Just have to figure out who I should be supporting, I guess.