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Author Topic: Biden's Cascade of Failure!  (Read 29322 times)

KindaMeh

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #285 on: June 27, 2022, 01:16:43 PM »
Speaking of failures, I know the people behind this article are to some degree invested in making it a Biden hit piece, but it still kinda scares me as regards his authoritarian tendencies and seeming incompetence. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-threatens-oil-companies-emergency-powers-supply-inflation

Firstly, we are not a command economy, so using emergency powers to control private production is kinda sketch.

Secondly, Biden has been hostile to oil expansion from the start, they couldn't expand that fast even if his policies like "carbon neutral by 2035" weren't signaling them not to, and despite this they are already at well over 90% theoretical production capacity, and he sent signals to the fracking industry that prevented them (the only ones who could ramp up supply fast enough) from feeling safe enough to expand by doing things like trying to ban fracking on federal lands.

And refused to do things like promise to buy back into the strategic reserves necessary for our security, that he continues to deplete to boost polling numbers, if prices fall low as a result of such expansion. When supply goes up, prices go down, and then you have to deal with any overexpansion. He has done nothing to convince them to expand, and is now threatening to force it (with oil, which can't do it, rather than fracking, which could actually handle some of it) when that (total lack of negotiation and effort) won't work.

It also feels to me like he's lying and covering for his own inflation and fossil fuel incompetence by trying to pin the blame on oil companies America relies on, and that are often unnecessarily demonized to begin with. Fail.

Pat

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #286 on: June 27, 2022, 01:40:11 PM »
Speaking of failures, I know the people behind this article are to some degree invested in making it a Biden hit piece, but it still kinda scares me as regards his authoritarian tendencies and seeming incompetence. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-threatens-oil-companies-emergency-powers-supply-inflation

Firstly, we are not a command economy, so using emergency powers to control private production is kinda sketch.

Secondly, Biden has been hostile to oil expansion from the start, they couldn't expand that fast even if his policies like "carbon neutral by 2035" weren't signaling them not to, and despite this they are already at well over 90% theoretical production capacity, and he sent signals to the fracking industry that prevented them (the only ones who could ramp up supply fast enough) from feeling safe enough to expand by doing things like trying to ban fracking on federal lands.

And refused to do things like promise to buy back into the strategic reserves necessary for our security, that he continues to deplete to boost polling numbers, if prices fall low as a result of such expansion. When supply goes up, prices go down, and then you have to deal with any overexpansion. He has done nothing to convince them to expand, and is now threatening to force it (with oil, which can't do it, rather than fracking, which could actually handle some of it) when that (total lack of negotiation and effort) won't work.

It also feels to me like he's lying and covering for his own inflation and fossil fuel incompetence by trying to pin the blame on oil companies America relies on, and that are often unnecessarily demonized to begin with. Fail.
That's fairly accurate, though I don't think the strategic reserves are a significant factor. They're just too small to make any significant difference, so that's just publicity (similar to the token flights of baby food from Europe) designed to make it look like the politicians are doing something, even though they're not addressing any of the root issues.

Politicians love to scapegoat corporations for their own failures. And you can see who has the power in that equation, because how often do politicians demonize corporations vs. how often do corporations demonize politicians?

Though to be fair, while shutting down the pipeline and revoking permits in Alaska, as well as the general anti-petroleum rhetoric and the embargo of Russian fuel has been uniquely Biden, they were only the precipitating events. The root of the general inflation is the expansion of the monetary supply, and a lot of specific shortages are being caused by the supply chain problems that were induced by the government lockdowns of workers and so-called "non-essential" businesses. And Trump shares a lot of blame for that.

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #287 on: June 28, 2022, 07:48:14 AM »
Gotta eat more beans, you guys.

 You spelled bugs wrong.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #288 on: June 29, 2022, 01:24:48 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #289 on: June 29, 2022, 03:21:30 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.
Even before every person who was there agreed to testify under oath it didn't happen, even before the person who supposedly told her the story agreed to testify under oath he didn't tell her that, even before someone looked up video footage from the day and realized it showed Trump in a completely different vehicle, it was still hearsay.

Why did every "news" organization run with it, as if it were an established fact and the Doom that Came to Trumpnath?

Ghostmaker

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #290 on: June 29, 2022, 03:39:00 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.
Even before every person who was there agreed to testify under oath it didn't happen, even before the person who supposedly told her the story agreed to testify under oath he didn't tell her that, even before someone looked up video footage from the day and realized it showed Trump in a completely different vehicle, it was still hearsay.

Why did every "news" organization run with it, as if it were an established fact and the Doom that Came to Trumpnath?
Because (drumroll):

Orange. Man. Bad.

KindaMeh

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #291 on: June 29, 2022, 03:59:09 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.
Even before every person who was there agreed to testify under oath it didn't happen, even before the person who supposedly told her the story agreed to testify under oath he didn't tell her that, even before someone looked up video footage from the day and realized it showed Trump in a completely different vehicle, it was still hearsay.

Why did every "news" organization run with it, as if it were an established fact and the Doom that Came to Trumpnath?

I think you're right and part of the problem is that the nature of political hearings is not as properly codified nor as genuinely valid as say a real court hearing according to our nation's laws and there-encoded values. Hearsay would not have made it into court to that degree. Not to say that our justice system's procedure is perfect, but still.

I also think that while they didn't want to legitimize it moreso than they did by appointing members of their own party to the committee and having them all be accepted, the Republicans could have made it a bipartisan inquiry and cross-examined, say, this witness and the validity of hearsay testimony. Or called for the Secret Service to be contacted and interviewed, though I will admit to some degree that they might have a conflict of interest. 

I was still pretty impressed up until this point that while the hearings were a political circus in nature (what do you expect, it's Congress), it arguably didn't slide fully into absurdity until around that point. I was actually surprised by a lot of things, and I now have to question whether a lot of people who asked for pardons on the hill were genuinely convinced the election was stolen. I even am starting to doubt Trump didn't understand things like the alternate elector plans and Pence changing the vote count were to some degree illegal and invalid given the legal advice and pardon requests he received. Which in turn could make me question whether the election fraud alleged to have so widely taken place by him was a lie. Which would make me very angry. On which note, we have many accounts of him having no statistical inference to point to during calls with folks on the hill we have dialogue on, and which more than 20 judicial reviews including the supreme court, especially given that many were ones he appointed, claimed he had no legitimate evidence. While some claims that were made against corporate products said corporations were able to find evidence of slander for potentially, and did not get their lawsuits just thrown out.

 I know it's not a popular opinion, but while this was a shit throwing circus act, with no real legal bearing because it's not a real court of law... I dunno, I'm glad it was shown most everywhere (yes, liberals, even Fox apart from day 1), even though I think media commentary was biased as ever. Because it gave me information and insight I didn't have, including much I feel can help inform the American public one way or another. Apart from relevant things I said I learned earlier, I think it showed there's not enough evidence to go to court, for one thing, either on the election being stolen or Trump trying to "incite insurrection". Both seem like political lies meant to divide America and sow mistrust in our democracy. Kinda like how maybe the Russians did help Trump a little in his first election with targeted email timing releases doing critical things to approval ratings, some blue voters *maybe* being kicked off digital voting waitlists in swing states, and troll farms and social media being brought into play... But that sure as hell doesn't make the win illegitimate. We pull that crap all the time, and in the end the voters decided by vote. And the electoral college exists for a reason, part of which is to protect state rights. I hate how both sides seem to love to smear not only each other but the democratic process our founders designed and so many damned people actively strive to monitor and protect to such a degree. I think we need stuff like Voter ID reform now, regardless of real impact on voter fraud, if only just to restore faith in the system on the right, where it's arguably most damaged in the moment. I also think the left needs to man up, comprehend, and deal with the good parts of the electoral college, states rights, the Constitution, and many other things. But that probably won't happen, because politicians in the establishment benefit from continuing to fling shit. Especially, I feel, on the left, because most of their platform these days is indeed "orange man bad".

That said the media also loves to stir up drama when it serves them, and is constantly pretending that this next thing is really what's going to sink political enemy whoever, because that's what viewers are willing and wanting to watch and hear. Sad that there's not as big an audience for relatively honest and unbiased news sources, but I guess consumers do admittedly have confirmation bias, this is a polarized time, and if folks really want some of the bigger picture they can at least try to shop around. Not to say it excuses some of the stuff that is pulled, admittedly on both sides.


Edit: Not changing my post, but it has misinformation in it, as noted in following posts, so be forewarned.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 05:36:30 PM by KindaMeh »

oggsmash

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #292 on: June 29, 2022, 04:00:12 PM »
 I wonder if these dumbasses realize all this shit does is trade orange man for Florida man, and Florida man is really, really going to piss them off.

KindaMeh

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #293 on: June 29, 2022, 04:04:12 PM »
I wonder if these dumbasses realize all this shit does is trade orange man for Florida man, and Florida man is really, really going to piss them off.

I wouldn't mind Florida man. Apart from the whole not giving power to localities thing I learned recently I mostly like him. That would be a good outcome. But I don't think he's running, I think he said he's going for Florida again.

Shasarak

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #294 on: June 29, 2022, 04:12:33 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.
Even before every person who was there agreed to testify under oath it didn't happen, even before the person who supposedly told her the story agreed to testify under oath he didn't tell her that, even before someone looked up video footage from the day and realized it showed Trump in a completely different vehicle, it was still hearsay.

Why did every "news" organization run with it, as if it were an established fact and the Doom that Came to Trumpnath?

I think you're right and part of the problem is that the nature of political hearings is not as properly codified nor as genuinely valid as say a real court hearing according to our nation's laws and there-encoded values. Hearsay would not have made it into court to that degree. Not to say that our justice system's procedure is perfect, but still.

I also think that while they didn't want to legitimize it moreso than they did by appointing members of their own party to the committee and having them all be accepted, the Republicans could have made it a bipartisan inquiry and cross-examined, say, this witness and the validity of hearsay testimony. Or called for the Secret Service to be contacted and interviewed, though I will admit to some degree that they might have a conflict of interest. 

I was still pretty impressed up until this point that while the hearings were a political circus in nature (what do you expect, it's Congress), it arguably didn't slide fully into absurdity until around that point. I was actually surprised by a lot of things, and I now have to question whether a lot of people who asked for pardons on the hill were genuinely convinced the election was stolen. I even am starting to doubt Trump didn't understand things like the alternate elector plans and Pence changing the vote count were to some degree illegal and invalid given the legal advice and pardon requests he received. Which in turn could make me question whether the election fraud alleged to have so widely taken place by him was a lie. Which would make me very angry. On which note, we have many accounts of him having no statistical inference to point to during calls with folks on the hill we have dialogue on, and which more than 20 judicial reviews including the supreme court, especially given that many were ones he appointed, claimed he had no legitimate evidence. While some claims that were made against corporate products said corporations were able to find evidence of slander for potentially, and did not get their lawsuits just thrown out.

 I know it's not a popular opinion, but while this was a shit throwing circus act, with no real legal bearing because it's not a real court of law... I dunno, I'm glad it was shown most everywhere (yes, liberals, even Fox apart from day 1), even though I think media commentary was biased as ever. Because it gave me information and insight I didn't have, including much I feel can help inform the American public one way or another. Apart from relevant things I said I learned earlier, I think it showed there's not enough evidence to go to court, for one thing, either on the election being stolen or Trump trying to "incite insurrection". Both seem like political lies meant to divide America and sow mistrust in our democracy. Kinda like how maybe the Russians did help Trump a little in his first election with targeted email timing releases doing critical things to approval ratings, some blue voters *maybe* being kicked off digital voting waitlists in swing states, and troll farms and social media being brought into play... But that sure as hell doesn't make the win illegitimate. We pull that crap all the time, and in the end the voters decided by vote. And the electoral college exists for a reason, part of which is to protect state rights. I hate how both sides seem to love to smear not only each other but the democratic process our founders designed and so many damned people actively strive to monitor and protect to such a degree. I think we need stuff like Voter ID reform now, regardless of real impact on voter fraud, if only just to restore faith in the system on the right, where it's arguably most damaged in the moment. I also think the left needs to man up, comprehend, and deal with the good parts of the electoral college, states rights, the Constitution, and many other things. But that probably won't happen, because politicians in the establishment benefit from continuing to fling shit. Especially, I feel, on the left, because most of their platform these days is indeed "orange man bad".

That said the media also loves to stir up drama when it serves them, and is constantly pretending that this next thing is really what's going to sink political enemy whoever, because that's what viewers are willing and wanting to watch and hear. Sad that there's not as big an audience for relatively honest and unbiased news sources, but I guess consumers do admittedly have confirmation bias, this is a polarized time, and if folks really want some of the bigger picture they can at least try to shop around. Not to say it excuses some of the stuff that is pulled, admittedly on both sides.

Personally I like how you blame Russia for helping to get Trump elected even though Muller spent 2 years investigating it and failing to find any evidence while at the same time trusting the Supreme Court claims of no election fraud after they spent 0 days looking at the evidence.

Thumbs up!
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KindaMeh

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #295 on: June 29, 2022, 04:16:10 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.
Even before every person who was there agreed to testify under oath it didn't happen, even before the person who supposedly told her the story agreed to testify under oath he didn't tell her that, even before someone looked up video footage from the day and realized it showed Trump in a completely different vehicle, it was still hearsay.

Why did every "news" organization run with it, as if it were an established fact and the Doom that Came to Trumpnath?

I think you're right and part of the problem is that the nature of political hearings is not as properly codified nor as genuinely valid as say a real court hearing according to our nation's laws and there-encoded values. Hearsay would not have made it into court to that degree. Not to say that our justice system's procedure is perfect, but still.

I also think that while they didn't want to legitimize it moreso than they did by appointing members of their own party to the committee and having them all be accepted, the Republicans could have made it a bipartisan inquiry and cross-examined, say, this witness and the validity of hearsay testimony. Or called for the Secret Service to be contacted and interviewed, though I will admit to some degree that they might have a conflict of interest. 

I was still pretty impressed up until this point that while the hearings were a political circus in nature (what do you expect, it's Congress), it arguably didn't slide fully into absurdity until around that point. I was actually surprised by a lot of things, and I now have to question whether a lot of people who asked for pardons on the hill were genuinely convinced the election was stolen. I even am starting to doubt Trump didn't understand things like the alternate elector plans and Pence changing the vote count were to some degree illegal and invalid given the legal advice and pardon requests he received. Which in turn could make me question whether the election fraud alleged to have so widely taken place by him was a lie. Which would make me very angry. On which note, we have many accounts of him having no statistical inference to point to during calls with folks on the hill we have dialogue on, and which more than 20 judicial reviews including the supreme court, especially given that many were ones he appointed, claimed he had no legitimate evidence. While some claims that were made against corporate products said corporations were able to find evidence of slander for potentially, and did not get their lawsuits just thrown out.

 I know it's not a popular opinion, but while this was a shit throwing circus act, with no real legal bearing because it's not a real court of law... I dunno, I'm glad it was shown most everywhere (yes, liberals, even Fox apart from day 1), even though I think media commentary was biased as ever. Because it gave me information and insight I didn't have, including much I feel can help inform the American public one way or another. Apart from relevant things I said I learned earlier, I think it showed there's not enough evidence to go to court, for one thing, either on the election being stolen or Trump trying to "incite insurrection". Both seem like political lies meant to divide America and sow mistrust in our democracy. Kinda like how maybe the Russians did help Trump a little in his first election with targeted email timing releases doing critical things to approval ratings, some blue voters *maybe* being kicked off digital voting waitlists in swing states, and troll farms and social media being brought into play... But that sure as hell doesn't make the win illegitimate. We pull that crap all the time, and in the end the voters decided by vote. And the electoral college exists for a reason, part of which is to protect state rights. I hate how both sides seem to love to smear not only each other but the democratic process our founders designed and so many damned people actively strive to monitor and protect to such a degree. I think we need stuff like Voter ID reform now, regardless of real impact on voter fraud, if only just to restore faith in the system on the right, where it's arguably most damaged in the moment. I also think the left needs to man up, comprehend, and deal with the good parts of the electoral college, states rights, the Constitution, and many other things. But that probably won't happen, because politicians in the establishment benefit from continuing to fling shit. Especially, I feel, on the left, because most of their platform these days is indeed "orange man bad".

That said the media also loves to stir up drama when it serves them, and is constantly pretending that this next thing is really what's going to sink political enemy whoever, because that's what viewers are willing and wanting to watch and hear. Sad that there's not as big an audience for relatively honest and unbiased news sources, but I guess consumers do admittedly have confirmation bias, this is a polarized time, and if folks really want some of the bigger picture they can at least try to shop around. Not to say it excuses some of the stuff that is pulled, admittedly on both sides.

Personally I like how you blame Russia for helping to get Trump elected even though Muller spent 2 years investigating it and failing to find any evidence while at the same time trusting the Supreme Court claims of no election fraud after they spent 0 days looking at the evidence.

Thumbs up!

Mueller was looking to see if Trump and co. took any illegal actions. He didn't, they didn't, apart from "having connections", so they found jack shit.

 Also pointed to Hillary email releases as things that hurt her candidacy, especially given the solid timing and effect on approval ratings. Would you say that hurt her and potentially helped Trump? Then even discounting some of the more complex operations or legal social media ones (and remember we do the same in various countries for a reason) I alluded to... Russia helped him get some votes.

 Who cares. It's perfectly legal to benefit from.

Also didn't like 7 major intelligence agencies including the findings of the Mueller Report say that the preponderance of evidence favored Russian interference in the election? (Which again, not illegal to benefit from, we interfere in a lot of elections, and many of those are still valid, and for those that aren't it has nothing to do with our interference, I'd say.)

 When we deny it and act like something like that both didn't happen and would be legally wrong to at all benefit from or would somehow invalidate our beliefs and the election outcome, I feel like the left wins its disingenuous ploy to make something that happened but was not at all wrong and illegal, out to somehow invalidate the election and be illegal. 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 04:40:18 PM by KindaMeh »

Pat

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #296 on: June 29, 2022, 05:02:10 PM »
I also think that while they didn't want to legitimize it moreso than they did by appointing members of their own party to the committee and having them all be accepted, the Republicans could have made it a bipartisan inquiry and cross-examined, say, this witness and the validity of hearsay testimony. Or called for the Secret Service to be contacted and interviewed, though I will admit to some degree that they might have a conflict of interest.
Here are the 5 Republicans House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy selected for the January 6th Select Committee:
Jim Banks of Indiana
Jim Jordan of Ohio
Rodney Davis of Illinois
Kelly Armstrong of North Dakota
Troy Nehls of Texas
https://news.yahoo.com/kevin-mccarthy-selects-five-republicans-000235782.html

Here are the Republicans on the January 6th Select Committee:
Liz Cheney of Wyoming
Adam Kinzinger of Illinois
https://january6th.house.gov/about/membership

Notice a discrepancy? Yes, not a single person on the first list is on the committee.

Pelosi rejected two of the minority leader's picks for the select committee, including Banks (who was going to be the ranking member for the Republicans). This has never happened before, in the entire history of the institution. No Speaker has ever rejected the opposition party's choices to sit on a select committee. So rather than participate at all, McCarthy pulled the rest of the picks.

The two Republicans on the committee were picked by Pelosi. Cheney was picked before McCarthy submitted his picks.

This is 100% a partisan witch hunt. There is no cross-examination, and no contrary opinions are allowed. Everything is framed and presented to serve the political purposes of one party. It's pure propaganda.
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/21/1018924596/nancy-pelosi-rejects-2-gop-picks-for-jan-6-inquiry-committee
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 05:06:59 PM by Pat »

KindaMeh

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #297 on: June 29, 2022, 05:06:33 PM »
I also think that while they didn't want to legitimize it moreso than they did by appointing members of their own party to the committee and having them all be accepted, the Republicans could have made it a bipartisan inquiry and cross-examined, say, this witness and the validity of hearsay testimony. Or called for the Secret Service to be contacted and interviewed, though I will admit to some degree that they might have a conflict of interest.
Here are the 5 Republicans House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy selected for the January 6th Select Committee:
Jim Banks of Indiana
Jim Jordan of Ohio
Rodney Davis of Illinois
Kelly Armstrong of North Dakota
Troy Nehls of Texas
https://news.yahoo.com/kevin-mccarthy-selects-five-republicans-000235782.html

Here are the Republicans on the January 6th Select Committee:
Liz Cheney of Wyoming
Adam Kinzinger of Illinois
https://january6th.house.gov/about/membership

Notice a discrepancy? Not a single person on the first list is on the committee.

Pelosi rejected two of the minority leader's picks for the select committee, including Banks (who was going to be the ranking member). This has never happened before, in the entire history of the institution. So rather than participate at all, McCarthy pulled the rest of the picks.

The two Republicans on the committee were picked by Pelosi. Cheney was picked before McCarthy submitted his picks.

This is 100% a partisan witch hunt and propaganda. There is no cross-examination, and no contrary opinions are allowed. Everything is frame and presented to serve the political purposes of one party.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/21/1018924596/nancy-pelosi-rejects-2-gop-picks-for-jan-6-inquiry-committee

Alright, I admit to being misinformed on that. I was totally wrong on that section. Hopefully I didn't screw up the rest quite as badly. (I heard Trump was angry at McCarthy for not doing a bipartisan panel and not putting pro-Trump folk on the committee. Didn't understand it was really Pelosi.)

Agreed that this is a partisan witch hunt, though I think some seemed a bit valid to me, in part because I didn't get that. Feeling a little less angry and betrayed if it has been shown that the things I was upset about would have crumbled under cross examination or were invalid factually.

This is what I get for only watching snippets directly and relying on admittedly somewhat sketchier news sources and articles to summarize most of it. I will in retrospect advise a fair bit of what I said be consequently taken with more than just a grain of salt.

I do think I may have done some soundbiting in retrospect on paragraphs 3 and 4, also, too many topics touched on mostly briefly, some involving opinion or personal feelings/prospective feelings.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 05:35:33 PM by KindaMeh »

Shasarak

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #298 on: June 29, 2022, 06:06:01 PM »
Good God, could we get some actual competence in our opponents for once?

The January 6th show trial and ritual castigation just slid headlong into absurdity, with that silly bint Cassidy Hutchinson blathering about how Trump attacked his Secret Service detail and tried to take the wheel of the vehicle he was in.

Except the Secret Service is saying, 'Uh, no, that never happened and we'll testify under oath it didn't'.

There were so many logical errors in this story, it's like they sat around and cooked up the dumbest thing they could throw at the mean ol' Orange Man, and then ran with it.
Even before every person who was there agreed to testify under oath it didn't happen, even before the person who supposedly told her the story agreed to testify under oath he didn't tell her that, even before someone looked up video footage from the day and realized it showed Trump in a completely different vehicle, it was still hearsay.

Why did every "news" organization run with it, as if it were an established fact and the Doom that Came to Trumpnath?

I think you're right and part of the problem is that the nature of political hearings is not as properly codified nor as genuinely valid as say a real court hearing according to our nation's laws and there-encoded values. Hearsay would not have made it into court to that degree. Not to say that our justice system's procedure is perfect, but still.

I also think that while they didn't want to legitimize it moreso than they did by appointing members of their own party to the committee and having them all be accepted, the Republicans could have made it a bipartisan inquiry and cross-examined, say, this witness and the validity of hearsay testimony. Or called for the Secret Service to be contacted and interviewed, though I will admit to some degree that they might have a conflict of interest. 

I was still pretty impressed up until this point that while the hearings were a political circus in nature (what do you expect, it's Congress), it arguably didn't slide fully into absurdity until around that point. I was actually surprised by a lot of things, and I now have to question whether a lot of people who asked for pardons on the hill were genuinely convinced the election was stolen. I even am starting to doubt Trump didn't understand things like the alternate elector plans and Pence changing the vote count were to some degree illegal and invalid given the legal advice and pardon requests he received. Which in turn could make me question whether the election fraud alleged to have so widely taken place by him was a lie. Which would make me very angry. On which note, we have many accounts of him having no statistical inference to point to during calls with folks on the hill we have dialogue on, and which more than 20 judicial reviews including the supreme court, especially given that many were ones he appointed, claimed he had no legitimate evidence. While some claims that were made against corporate products said corporations were able to find evidence of slander for potentially, and did not get their lawsuits just thrown out.

 I know it's not a popular opinion, but while this was a shit throwing circus act, with no real legal bearing because it's not a real court of law... I dunno, I'm glad it was shown most everywhere (yes, liberals, even Fox apart from day 1), even though I think media commentary was biased as ever. Because it gave me information and insight I didn't have, including much I feel can help inform the American public one way or another. Apart from relevant things I said I learned earlier, I think it showed there's not enough evidence to go to court, for one thing, either on the election being stolen or Trump trying to "incite insurrection". Both seem like political lies meant to divide America and sow mistrust in our democracy. Kinda like how maybe the Russians did help Trump a little in his first election with targeted email timing releases doing critical things to approval ratings, some blue voters *maybe* being kicked off digital voting waitlists in swing states, and troll farms and social media being brought into play... But that sure as hell doesn't make the win illegitimate. We pull that crap all the time, and in the end the voters decided by vote. And the electoral college exists for a reason, part of which is to protect state rights. I hate how both sides seem to love to smear not only each other but the democratic process our founders designed and so many damned people actively strive to monitor and protect to such a degree. I think we need stuff like Voter ID reform now, regardless of real impact on voter fraud, if only just to restore faith in the system on the right, where it's arguably most damaged in the moment. I also think the left needs to man up, comprehend, and deal with the good parts of the electoral college, states rights, the Constitution, and many other things. But that probably won't happen, because politicians in the establishment benefit from continuing to fling shit. Especially, I feel, on the left, because most of their platform these days is indeed "orange man bad".

That said the media also loves to stir up drama when it serves them, and is constantly pretending that this next thing is really what's going to sink political enemy whoever, because that's what viewers are willing and wanting to watch and hear. Sad that there's not as big an audience for relatively honest and unbiased news sources, but I guess consumers do admittedly have confirmation bias, this is a polarized time, and if folks really want some of the bigger picture they can at least try to shop around. Not to say it excuses some of the stuff that is pulled, admittedly on both sides.

Personally I like how you blame Russia for helping to get Trump elected even though Muller spent 2 years investigating it and failing to find any evidence while at the same time trusting the Supreme Court claims of no election fraud after they spent 0 days looking at the evidence.

Thumbs up!

Mueller was looking to see if Trump and co. took any illegal actions. He didn't, they didn't, apart from "having connections", so they found jack shit.

 Also pointed to Hillary email releases as things that hurt her candidacy, especially given the solid timing and effect on approval ratings. Would you say that hurt her and potentially helped Trump? Then even discounting some of the more complex operations or legal social media ones (and remember we do the same in various countries for a reason) I alluded to... Russia helped him get some votes.

 Who cares. It's perfectly legal to benefit from.

Also didn't like 7 major intelligence agencies including the findings of the Mueller Report say that the preponderance of evidence favored Russian interference in the election? (Which again, not illegal to benefit from, we interfere in a lot of elections, and many of those are still valid, and for those that aren't it has nothing to do with our interference, I'd say.)

 When we deny it and act like something like that both didn't happen and would be legally wrong to at all benefit from or would somehow invalidate our beliefs and the election outcome, I feel like the left wins its disingenuous ploy to make something that happened but was not at all wrong and illegal, out to somehow invalidate the election and be illegal.

It seems strange that Putin ran out of money before the 2020 election.

Must have been saving it up for the Ukraine invasion.
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There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Pat

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Re: Biden's Cascade of Failure!
« Reply #299 on: June 29, 2022, 06:19:55 PM »
Alright, I admit to being misinformed on that. I was totally wrong on that section. Hopefully I didn't screw up the rest quite as badly. (I heard Trump was angry at McCarthy for not doing a bipartisan panel and not putting pro-Trump folk on the committee. Didn't understand it was really Pelosi.)
In the next paragraph, you claimed there were judicial reviews, and they were thrown out due to lack of evidence. No, nearly all were thrown out due to lack of standing, without making any judgment on the evidence.