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Author Topic: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in  (Read 20441 times)

Bedrockbrendan

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #270 on: February 27, 2024, 04:52:10 PM »
  One more to say what really matters...great you are training and doing so consistently.  Cheers.

Thanks! I am getting older (in my late 40s) so I am slowing down, and mostly just trying to keep my conditioning, strength and speed at this point

Bedrockbrendan

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #271 on: February 27, 2024, 04:58:26 PM »


  Regarding getting along with the BJJ crowd...they can trend towards obsessed autists and I think if I had not started training when I did (1997 for BJJ) I do not know that the current generation (or the one you speak of in 2008) would be my cup of tea.   I have an advantage in that the guys I taught are all more on the old school line of thinking so I do not have to deal with the folks who can be...well a pain in the ass to get along with that are no where near as uncommon as I would like for them to be in BJJ.   So I think I know what you are talking about there...from the start there was a tone of arrogance around BJJ I did not care for.  Most of the guys I trained with were as new or almost as new as I was though.  So in a way I didnt catch much flak for being able to box their ears or kick their heads off since I was submitting most of them at the time.  But it was a time where everyone was sort of new and most places the people training there had all done something else before (Karate, TKD, kickboxing, judo, wrestled, etc)  I would say the Judo club I trained with the people were MUCH more laid back than just about any BJJ place I have been (even at the place I ran I think people were wound a bit tight even though I tried to keep everyone laid back) and I guess that could be born of that old "gracie challenge" BS BJJ really got its start with in North America.   


I started I think in 2000, but didn't do BJJ till probably 2004 or so. Not sure where that puts things generationally. It is hard to put into words what bothered me about BJJ places. But there was more of an engineering or math mindset if that makes sense.

Muay Thai gyms were pretty good places to train here in the 2000s. I found those easy to navigate 

Quote
  I think details to teaching a technique are important...but I also think most BJJ instructors waaaay over sell the importance of exact placement and technical perfection.  That is especially true when teaching something new to people.  IME it is a waste of time to harp on precision...now this is not to say your guy was like that...but often details are more long winded than they have to be when something gets taught to a class.  I prefer to keep a warm up that revolves around a technique I want to hammer into people versus trying to nit pick too much on foot and hand placement.  I will correct them when I see them try something sparring (as to me this is the best time to fix doing something wrong, the trainee wanted to do it so their interest is maxed, their acceptance to coaching/instruction will have the highest coupling of attention/emotional attachment you are going to get to marry to memory) if they were on the right path.   Generally I think things stick the best for a person when they ask me a question directly about something they tried/or are attempting.  I do the step in while sparring thing because the years have taught me not everyone is willing to approach me after, before, or during a class to ask a question.   That said...it's OK to not train or like to train grappling.  I like all of them...well at my age I am not battling for a contested takedown past 10 seconds...and think whatever gets you to train consistently is always the best choice.

I do think this was a big part of it. I would liken it to trying to learn a language and not being able to pronounce the word exactly right and just having the experience of constantly being corrected. Striking is a lot easier to imitate. And while they will refine your technique over time, and there is negative correction, it just felt different.

In the end, I realized I enjoyed striking combat sports so have stuck with those. I am not learning it for the street. I am not going to be in an MMA match, so the value to me enjoying the martial art I train in. I like the feel of kicking and punching and sparring

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #272 on: February 27, 2024, 05:04:39 PM »
  Re reading that it does look like argumentative glop than how I intended.  I will compare it this way, A motivated trainee with his striking can be the equivalent to how I would view a purple belt (4-5 years of consistent and frequent training) in 12-18 months.   This means I expect that trainee to look good and function well in live sparring, will look like a pro doing pad work, and be able to fight as an amateur with no problems (assuming he has what it takes to fight...that is a more complicated thing that is not purely skill driven).  He will look good under pressure and be pretty polished.   A person straight off the street with no prior grappling (wrestlers can break this time frame...but often have things they will not unlearn early) in no way will look to be at the same relative competence level for the most part.  This is assuming 4 days a week training.   This is because the Kickboxer/boxer/striker will be able to work and work hard on the things that will make him good the fastest (footwork, balance, head movement) on his own to great efficacy once he knows how to do these things.   The grappler is going to be pretty limited to his solo drills and bridging and shrimping will help his fundamentals but slow his progress as compared to solo drill impact for striking.

Appreciate that. For the record I am not trying to be argumentative at all but like I said I am a striker. I tend to punch back if I perceive someone is punching me (even if it is verbal). What you say is reasonable. When I first went to a muay thai gym, they wanted me to fight after just 2 months (it was an emergency situation because someone who had a fight got injured but I am pretty sure I could have handled myself okay: turned out it wasn't necessary though). After about a year of training you do look good. And I agree it takes longer to look good at grappling. My only point was after that 1 year to 18 months of training there is still tons to learn in striking. I was not happy with my punches for example until about 6 years in. I could hit like a truck from the get go. It was one of the things I was good at. But I get so much more power now and I have such better command and fluidity and I know how to find openings so much better.

 
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This is also for another reason, I think you get more from working on footwork till it is good than you get from sparring.  It is fine to spar as you develop, but IMO as I said the sparring is for the most part a quiz...that footwork, pad work, shadow boxing is the homework.  You have to do the homework to do well on the quiz. 

I guess this is our main point of disagreement though it really isn't by a lot. I think footwork is crucial. You have to work on footwork. But the best thing for making sure your footwork is improving and to experiment further and improve more, is sparring. You have to do shadow boxing, drills like punch step, conditioning drills where you are moving around the ring and developing the muscles. But you also got to spar. And I don't see sparring as a quiz. I see sparring as something you do as regularly as possible because yes it does test what you learned, but it is also where you learn to put to use what you have learned. Hitting a bag and hitting a man are night and day. Hitting a pad and hitting a head are night and day.



Quote
Grappling is different in this regard...many people get a ton of their development from sparring.  Now this is not to say I have not seen outliers to both these things and understand they exist.  IME though sparring for striking is a quiz/test and to a degree it is grappling as well its just the speed dial for grappling is much easier to turn down and still be sparring than it is for anything realistic striking wise.   Even 50 percent contact with people who know what they are doing means often a pretty negative feedback loop while striking....where getting slowly submitted with a person slowly applying an armlock is not the same sort of psychological shock that having blood drip from your nose is (and for sure 50 percent power landing really clean will do this).   To this end that was my main point the PRIMARY developmental tool (footwork, balance, head movement) for striking can be done alone....the primary development tool for grappling (partner drills and live rolling/sparring) can not.

Again, I can't comment on grappling much, so I am sure your commentary here is accurate in that regard, but I think you get just as much development from sparring in boxing, muay thai and even stuff like TKD.

Where I agree is grappling is easier to manage sparring. There are many many pitfalls to live sparring with striking. I have more concussion than I can remember. But I come from the hard sparring school of thought with this stuff. Rarely are you going 100% (for example an approach I often saw was something like 100% against the body but 50% against the head, assuming you are sparring someone in your weight category). But talking in percentages is important. A good instructor knows when to go down to 20% so you can experiment and learn, and knows when to crank it up so you can learn what it is like when someone is trying to hit you hard. And you have to learn to be hit hard as well. Learning to take punishment is part of boxing and muay thai.

Well I would say in terms of what is primary in striking, they are all important. But if you remove sparring, that is bigger than removing pad work. You shouldn't remove pad work either but sparring is what separates people who know how to strike and peopel who just know how to hit pads IMO

  If you could spar anywhere near as often striking as you could grappling I could see where they are both as important regarding development.  But you can not.  And for the newer people sparring is really great for grapplers and not as valuable for striking.  After a while sparring IMO become MUCH more important to an experienced trainee, but that is 1-2 years down the road for someone striking.(edited to clarify) Not to say strikers should not be sparring as soon as possible...just that as a more independent developmental tool it takes time for a trainee to get as much out of sparring as they will once their fundamentals are sound.  Percentages is important...if I kick dudes to the body at 80 percent sparring is over.  I like 50 percent contact with full speed.  That is not "hard" sparring IMO...but harder than that... if kicking and people are going to break feet and take seats here and there. Just boxing I can say I do not go to the body at 80 percent either as I tend to try to catch that liver at the right time and it does not take 80 for me to send the message, but I can see 80 on the gut being fine for the most part.   I agree a good person can dial it way down as well.  I do not disagree sparring is extremely important for striking it is just less of a developmental "rung" of the ladder for striking than it is for grappling.   This is largely because the mistakes in sparring are fixed with padwork/footwork and trying again.  Yes a good person can adjust on the fly (usually in response to finding out your partner is faster/taller/does something funky) in real time sparring in many situations...but that is because they ALREADY had the skill to do so...not because they developed it in that moment sparring. 

   It feels like we agree...I think you may be taking some things I am saying as stronger than intended.   Grappling is a bigger developmental tool because there is no pad work for grappling, there is no series of solo movement drills (there are to a degree....but boring as hell and development curve pretty flat).  There is partner drilling and sparring and you can spar a lot more grappling than you can striking.  Period.  So sparring is a bigger tool for grappling than striking on that basis alone.   I understand if you disagree with this...I also understand you do not know me.  I could be making all this up about what I have done/can do/etc.   If you take what I say in good faith though...it is looking back 3 decades as well as moving forward now and through the lens of how hundreds of different people, body types, ages, sexes, etc of people develop in these two things (grappling and striking).
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 05:09:14 PM by oggsmash »

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #273 on: February 27, 2024, 05:07:21 PM »


  Regarding getting along with the BJJ crowd...they can trend towards obsessed autists and I think if I had not started training when I did (1997 for BJJ) I do not know that the current generation (or the one you speak of in 2008) would be my cup of tea.   I have an advantage in that the guys I taught are all more on the old school line of thinking so I do not have to deal with the folks who can be...well a pain in the ass to get along with that are no where near as uncommon as I would like for them to be in BJJ.   So I think I know what you are talking about there...from the start there was a tone of arrogance around BJJ I did not care for.  Most of the guys I trained with were as new or almost as new as I was though.  So in a way I didnt catch much flak for being able to box their ears or kick their heads off since I was submitting most of them at the time.  But it was a time where everyone was sort of new and most places the people training there had all done something else before (Karate, TKD, kickboxing, judo, wrestled, etc)  I would say the Judo club I trained with the people were MUCH more laid back than just about any BJJ place I have been (even at the place I ran I think people were wound a bit tight even though I tried to keep everyone laid back) and I guess that could be born of that old "gracie challenge" BS BJJ really got its start with in North America.   


I started I think in 2000, but didn't do BJJ till probably 2004 or so. Not sure where that puts things generationally. It is hard to put into words what bothered me about BJJ places. But there was more of an engineering or math mindset if that makes sense.

Muay Thai gyms were pretty good places to train here in the 2000s. I found those easy to navigate 

Quote
  I think details to teaching a technique are important...but I also think most BJJ instructors waaaay over sell the importance of exact placement and technical perfection.  That is especially true when teaching something new to people.  IME it is a waste of time to harp on precision...now this is not to say your guy was like that...but often details are more long winded than they have to be when something gets taught to a class.  I prefer to keep a warm up that revolves around a technique I want to hammer into people versus trying to nit pick too much on foot and hand placement.  I will correct them when I see them try something sparring (as to me this is the best time to fix doing something wrong, the trainee wanted to do it so their interest is maxed, their acceptance to coaching/instruction will have the highest coupling of attention/emotional attachment you are going to get to marry to memory) if they were on the right path.   Generally I think things stick the best for a person when they ask me a question directly about something they tried/or are attempting.  I do the step in while sparring thing because the years have taught me not everyone is willing to approach me after, before, or during a class to ask a question.   That said...it's OK to not train or like to train grappling.  I like all of them...well at my age I am not battling for a contested takedown past 10 seconds...and think whatever gets you to train consistently is always the best choice.

I do think this was a big part of it. I would liken it to trying to learn a language and not being able to pronounce the word exactly right and just having the experience of constantly being corrected. Striking is a lot easier to imitate. And while they will refine your technique over time, and there is negative correction, it just felt different.

In the end, I realized I enjoyed striking combat sports so have stuck with those. I am not learning it for the street. I am not going to be in an MMA match, so the value to me enjoying the martial art I train in. I like the feel of kicking and punching and sparring

  Oh...saying that was the mindset makes perfect sense.  Autist computer programmer brains abound.

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #274 on: March 12, 2024, 01:58:00 PM »
 A couple pages of invested debate of footwork/footwork drills level of importance now in the rear view...back to numbers.  I have been back to the bench press for a month or so and did 255x5x3 this past Sunday.  Went smooth unsure if I go up 5 again for sets across or do the old 2.5 climb to slowly make sure my pectoral has nothing to hide (should be safe as we are still under incline press x5 threshold).  Have just started going Standing Press again (played with seated dumbbell press for a month to rest elbows) so weight was pedestrian there.   Squat was 480x5 (Breaking Parallel) and it was not too bad, had one in the tank and possibly 2 if I was willing to risk death.   My son had to take a reset on his weights as he got whatever flu is flying around and it battered him pretty good for a week and left him needing a walk up on his poundage.

   Am going to rotate deadlifts and power cleans back into the lifting routine in April as well as plyometric drills and sprints.   Those are more for my son...but I feel silly telling him to do something I am not doing.

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #275 on: March 12, 2024, 08:07:50 PM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.
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Brad

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #276 on: March 14, 2024, 02:54:25 PM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.

Hah, I cleared a quarter acre of cedar over the past couple days. Let's just say I'll take any rancher/farmer and put them up against the best weightlifter/strongman...
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

aganauton

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #277 on: March 24, 2024, 11:32:24 AM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.

Hah, I cleared a quarter acre of cedar over the past couple days. Let's just say I'll take any rancher/farmer and put them up against the best weightlifter/strongman...

Agreed Brad.

I swung a chainsaw for 20 years.  I never worked out in a gym.

But, and this is the question I'm asking myself now, what happens when you can't do that anymore.  I cut 2 tanks of gas and I can't pick up my coffee cup for a week.

There has been some very good advice through this 19 pages of thread.  So I'm asking for some advice.

Early 50's, heavy smoker, bad knees, bad shoulders, bad back.  What exercises can I do that doesn't gibble me, but still gets the blood pumping, maybe reverse some of the damage I did when I was young and dumb?*

Ag.

*I'll take the advice with a grain of salt, I'm old enough to realize you can't sue your way through life.  And yeah I know, QUIT FUCKING SMOKING, I'm working on it

Bedrockbrendan

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #278 on: March 24, 2024, 12:18:10 PM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.

Hah, I cleared a quarter acre of cedar over the past couple days. Let's just say I'll take any rancher/farmer and put them up against the best weightlifter/strongman...

Agreed Brad.

I swung a chainsaw for 20 years.  I never worked out in a gym.

But, and this is the question I'm asking myself now, what happens when you can't do that anymore.  I cut 2 tanks of gas and I can't pick up my coffee cup for a week.

There has been some very good advice through this 19 pages of thread.  So I'm asking for some advice.

Early 50's, heavy smoker, bad knees, bad shoulders, bad back.  What exercises can I do that doesn't gibble me, but still gets the blood pumping, maybe reverse some of the damage I did when I was young and dumb?*

Ag.

*I'll take the advice with a grain of salt, I'm old enough to realize you can't sue your way through life.  And yeah I know, QUIT FUCKING SMOKING, I'm working on it

I would say see a doctor before doing anything if you have that many issues (and they can probably tell you the healthiest choices). I would think long walks should be more manageable. Maybe do some light weight routines that you don't find too stressful.

On smoking, it is real tough to quit. I used to smoke until I got into martial arts. The only way that I was able to quit (and I tried everything) was dropping one cigarette slowly until I was only smoking one in the morning. And I kept smoking that one last cigarette for about six months. I found that worked and it almost felt like my body was reset because I tried smoking just a few months after my last cigarette and my lungs couldn't even handle it. So there was never any desire after that to go back to smoking. Not saying this will work for you, because I know how hard quitting is and how individual it is. I can't remember the exact time increment i lowered the cigarettes by (it may have been 1 a week but I was probably playing it more by ear)

aganauton

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #279 on: March 24, 2024, 12:34:42 PM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.

Hah, I cleared a quarter acre of cedar over the past couple days. Let's just say I'll take any rancher/farmer and put them up against the best weightlifter/strongman...

Agreed Brad.

I swung a chainsaw for 20 years.  I never worked out in a gym.

But, and this is the question I'm asking myself now, what happens when you can't do that anymore.  I cut 2 tanks of gas and I can't pick up my coffee cup for a week.

There has been some very good advice through this 19 pages of thread.  So I'm asking for some advice.

Early 50's, heavy smoker, bad knees, bad shoulders, bad back.  What exercises can I do that doesn't gibble me, but still gets the blood pumping, maybe reverse some of the damage I did when I was young and dumb?*

Ag.

*I'll take the advice with a grain of salt, I'm old enough to realize you can't sue your way through life.  And yeah I know, QUIT FUCKING SMOKING, I'm working on it

I would say see a doctor before doing anything if you have that many issues (and they can probably tell you the healthiest choices). I would think long walks should be more manageable. Maybe do some light weight routines that you don't find too stressful.

On smoking, it is real tough to quit. I used to smoke until I got into martial arts. The only way that I was able to quit (and I tried everything) was dropping one cigarette slowly until I was only smoking one in the morning. And I kept smoking that one last cigarette for about six months. I found that worked and it almost felt like my body was reset because I tried smoking just a few months after my last cigarette and my lungs couldn't even handle it. So there was never any desire after that to go back to smoking. Not saying this will work for you, because I know how hard quitting is and how individual it is. I can't remember the exact time increment i lowered the cigarettes by (it may have been 1 a week but I was probably playing it more by ear)

I don't want to derail this thread but....

See, I started with that first smoke of the day.  I've been working on delaying that.  Instead of firing up while I'm still in bed, I'm up to 30 minutes.  I have to wait for the coffee to brew, and half a cup of coffee before a roll a smoke.

As for talking to a doctor.  Yeah, maybe, but I don't like them.

Walking yes, I do a lot of that in my current job, stairs included.  I usually walk between 12 and 20 km (not sure the miles) in a 12 hour shift.

Yeah, generic terms of bad back are't really great.  So, the knees, left knee, cartilidge, it's gone.....right knee, ligament damage.

Shoulders, nerve damage from dis-locating them, and then not seeking proper care.  And sweet talking two different doctors into cortesone injections so I could keep working.

Back....ciatic nerve.

Daztur

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #280 on: March 25, 2024, 01:18:38 AM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.

Hah, I cleared a quarter acre of cedar over the past couple days. Let's just say I'll take any rancher/farmer and put them up against the best weightlifter/strongman...

Agreed Brad.

I swung a chainsaw for 20 years.  I never worked out in a gym.

But, and this is the question I'm asking myself now, what happens when you can't do that anymore.  I cut 2 tanks of gas and I can't pick up my coffee cup for a week.

There has been some very good advice through this 19 pages of thread.  So I'm asking for some advice.

Early 50's, heavy smoker, bad knees, bad shoulders, bad back.  What exercises can I do that doesn't gibble me, but still gets the blood pumping, maybe reverse some of the damage I did when I was young and dumb?*

Ag.

*I'll take the advice with a grain of salt, I'm old enough to realize you can't sue your way through life.  And yeah I know, QUIT FUCKING SMOKING, I'm working on it

There's a reason swimming is popular, it's good with bad joints. Just wish it wasn't so freaking boring.

I just stick to long runs and some simple upper body stuff I can do at home with either the floor, a chin-up bar or some small dumbbells (you don't need a big dumbell for lat raises etc.) since I'm a cheap-ass and love listening to podcasts on long runs.

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #281 on: March 25, 2024, 11:14:43 AM »
I've got some sandbags for the gym. Let's just say they're challenging.

Hah, I cleared a quarter acre of cedar over the past couple days. Let's just say I'll take any rancher/farmer and put them up against the best weightlifter/strongman...

Agreed Brad.

I swung a chainsaw for 20 years.  I never worked out in a gym.

But, and this is the question I'm asking myself now, what happens when you can't do that anymore.  I cut 2 tanks of gas and I can't pick up my coffee cup for a week.

There has been some very good advice through this 19 pages of thread.  So I'm asking for some advice.

Early 50's, heavy smoker, bad knees, bad shoulders, bad back.  What exercises can I do that doesn't gibble me, but still gets the blood pumping, maybe reverse some of the damage I did when I was young and dumb?*

Ag.

*I'll take the advice with a grain of salt, I'm old enough to realize you can't sue your way through life.  And yeah I know, QUIT FUCKING SMOKING, I'm working on it

  I agree with the doctor assessment, with a request for some sort of referral to a physical therapist/exercise specialist who can give you things to do that will work around aggravating ills you already have, and strengthen some things that tend to help with those ills.  The only thing I know for sure is it will not get better without action...and though I do not care for doctors in most cases, Orthopedists tend to be the most practical and competent IMO and can give you the best options.    I could not even begin to give advice without knowing what your doctor says. 

aganauton

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #282 on: March 26, 2024, 07:30:24 AM »
Thanks Oggsmash.

I hadn't even considered getting a referral to an orthopedic specialist.  Considering I spent the better part of my teenage years visiting one, it's a bit of a 'fucking dumbass' moment.

If I could pick your brain for a moment.  What do you know about glucosomine, as a supplement?  I had an old dog that got put on that.  The difference was night and day for a couple of years.

I'm reading that it can help with old joints, with very little side effects.  I'm just curious what you know about it?

Ag.

oggsmash

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Re: Preferred Exercises or Fitness Activities the Forum engages in
« Reply #283 on: March 26, 2024, 10:53:17 AM »
 I used to take a good deal of  glucosamine when I was on a mat 5-6 days a week and sparring kickboxing consistently as well.  I have no idea as to the science but I do know that it and Fish oil helped me a great deal with general joint inflammation.  I do not take either of those now as I have cut my mat days down drastically and I think have essentially a zero sugar/lower carb diet seems to have eliminated some of the inflammation.  I have been on a strengthening kick for just over a year and a half...and honestly getting stronger has eliminated my back and knee aches pretty much entirely.  How much is from getting strong again and how much is from no sugar...I can not say. 

    Long story short I found Glucosamine to be effective for making me feel better all around joint wise.  It did take a while, about 2.5-3 weeks to fully get rolling, but it did work for me.