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Author Topic: Larian complains about boring players  (Read 1508 times)

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2020, 06:22:21 pm »
Quote from: the woke writer
Even when presented with a wealth of options and opportunities, people will still default to making what’s comfortable and familiar: themselves.
No, because then the default guy would be overweight. Two-thirds of the Western world is overweight or obese, and gamers like snacks. They're making an idealised version of themselves. "Me if I were good-looking and competent." Cos, you know, it's fantasy roleplaying.

I just really do not even understand these "gamers" whole motivation for *wanting* fucked up, crippled, weird, socially-ostracized, rebel freak characters.
Because you get extra character build points when you take disadvantages. It's all GURPS' fault, they started it. If you were a one-eyed epilectic dwarf with a stutter you could be a master swordsman on day one of your adventuring.

My old man works with people with acquired brain injuries. I said, "Is it like Rainman? You know, idiot savants?"
"No, most of them are just idiots."

Game designers have this perverse idea that games should be balanced, which carried to its absurd extreme means everyone is built on the same total points - overall, everyone is as good as everyone else. Point-buy is roleplaying game socialism, and it doesn't represent reality or fantasy fiction in any way at all.

This is why random roll character generation is superior - there's less opportunity for the player to indulge their desire to be a unique special snowflake and, god help us, write a backstory.

The idea that disabilities give you extra other abilities accounts for people wanting to be disabled. Point-buy character generation is the cause of modern Wokeness. Save the world from the Woke, stick to random roll character generation.

PS: I would say that random roll actually offers more opportunities for developing empathy for people with difficulties. Because maybe all your rolls are shit. But with wits and luck, you make the best of it anyway. Meanwhile some guy with great stats dies in the first combat. Your poor rolls mean you have to work harder for the same results than the guy with good rolls - but you might get there anyway!

But I guess, "Make the best of things, whatever your difficulties, in the end success or failure is largely up to you," is not really a Woke message.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 07:17:44 pm by Kyle Aaron »
Rules for effective DMing:
1. Bring snacks.
2. The dice are always right.
3. I master the game, the game does not master me.
4. Momentum over perfection.
5. The game must go on!

Shasarak

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2020, 10:22:47 pm »
I agree that random rolled characters are better even if you have to keep rolling the whole night to get there.
Life is Hard; Play Short

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2020, 11:56:04 pm »
No, you play whoever you roll up.

If they die, then you can roll another one. But you play them until then.
Rules for effective DMing:
1. Bring snacks.
2. The dice are always right.
3. I master the game, the game does not master me.
4. Momentum over perfection.
5. The game must go on!

shuddemell

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2020, 10:47:51 am »
Quote from: the woke writer
Even when presented with a wealth of options and opportunities, people will still default to making what%u2019s comfortable and familiar: themselves.
No, because then the default guy would be overweight. Two-thirds of the Western world is overweight or obese, and gamers like snacks. They're making an idealised version of themselves. "Me if I were good-looking and competent." Cos, you know, it's fantasy roleplaying.

I just really do not even understand these "gamers" whole motivation for *wanting* fucked up, crippled, weird, socially-ostracized, rebel freak characters.
Because you get extra character build points when you take disadvantages. It's all GURPS' fault, they started it. If you were a one-eyed epilectic dwarf with a stutter you could be a master swordsman on day one of your adventuring.

My old man works with people with acquired brain injuries. I said, "Is it like Rainman? You know, idiot savants?"
"No, most of them are just idiots."

Game designers have this perverse idea that games should be balanced, which carried to its absurd extreme means everyone is built on the same total points - overall, everyone is as good as everyone else. Point-buy is roleplaying game socialism, and it doesn't represent reality or fantasy fiction in any way at all.

This is why random roll character generation is superior - there's less opportunity for the player to indulge their desire to be a unique special snowflake and, god help us, write a backstory.

The idea that disabilities give you extra other abilities accounts for people wanting to be disabled. Point-buy character generation is the cause of modern Wokeness. Save the world from the Woke, stick to random roll character generation.

PS: I would say that random roll actually offers more opportunities for developing empathy for people with difficulties. Because maybe all your rolls are shit. But with wits and luck, you make the best of it anyway. Meanwhile some guy with great stats dies in the first combat. Your poor rolls mean you have to work harder for the same results than the guy with good rolls - but you might get there anyway!

But I guess, "Make the best of things, whatever your difficulties, in the end success or failure is largely up to you," is not really a Woke message.

Point of order, no it isn't GURPS fault, Champions beat them by 6 years with that paradigm of points of disabilities.
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsRichard Feynman

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more.Nikola Tesla

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.Bruce Lee

He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.Marcus Aurelius

For you see we are aimless hate filled animals scampering away into the night.Skwisgaar Skwigelf

jhkim

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2020, 11:57:20 am »
Because you get extra character build points when you take disadvantages. It's all GURPS' fault, they started it. If you were a one-eyed epilectic dwarf with a stutter you could be a master swordsman on day one of your adventuring.

My old man works with people with acquired brain injuries. I said, "Is it like Rainman? You know, idiot savants?"
"No, most of them are just idiots."

Game designers have this perverse idea that games should be balanced, which carried to its absurd extreme means everyone is built on the same total points - overall, everyone is as good as everyone else. Point-buy is roleplaying game socialism, and it doesn't represent reality or fantasy fiction in any way at all.

This is why random roll character generation is superior - there's less opportunity for the player to indulge their desire to be a unique special snowflake and, god help us, write a backstory.

The idea that disabilities give you extra other abilities accounts for people wanting to be disabled. Point-buy character generation is the cause of modern Wokeness. Save the world from the Woke, stick to random roll character generation.
Point of order, no it isn't GURPS fault, Champions beat them by 6 years with that paradigm of points of disabilities.
Yeah, Champions had points for disabilities in 1981, while GURPS didn't come out until 1987.

I disagree with the premise of Kyle's argument, though -- which is a variation of "If you want to kill orcs, then you support real-life genocide of real-life people." The alternative is that games are not indicative of real-life beliefs and behaviors - so killing people in a game doesn't indicate that you're a psychopath, and wanting game balance doesn't indicate that you're a socialist. Game balance is a concept that long predates role-playing games at all. It's from war games, board games, and card games.

I think the desire to play characters with notable weaknesses and/or disabilities comes from the genre - not from game mechanics. Superhero characters like Daredevil and Professor X had unique disabilities that were a part of them, as opposed to classic fantasy characters like Conan or Aragorn.

I've played lots of point-buy character creation and lots of random-roll character creation. I think they're both fun, and I don't think either has any effect on real-life politics.

Shasarak

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2020, 02:12:52 pm »
No, you play whoever you roll up.

Yes, I said that.
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Pat

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2020, 05:56:33 pm »
Yeah, Champions had points for disabilities in 1981, while GURPS didn't come out until 1987.
1986, not 1987.

jhkim

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2020, 10:52:35 pm »
Yeah, Champions had points for disabilities in 1981, while GURPS didn't come out until 1987.
1986, not 1987.
Whoops. You're correct. I was close, at least. I'd note that the James Bond 007 RPG also adapted the points-for-weaknesses in 1983, prior to GURPS.

anglebrill

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2020, 09:12:46 am »
But coming from DOS2 with a lot of skills, multiple actions per turn and lots of flashy explosion I kind of find myself bored with this combat. It's just move, normal attack once (most likely miss) and rinse repeat. There will probably be more active skills to use later on but damn..







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shuddemell

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Re: Larian complains about boring players
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2020, 09:19:58 am »
Because you get extra character build points when you take disadvantages. It's all GURPS' fault, they started it. If you were a one-eyed epilectic dwarf with a stutter you could be a master swordsman on day one of your adventuring.

My old man works with people with acquired brain injuries. I said, "Is it like Rainman? You know, idiot savants?"
"No, most of them are just idiots."

Game designers have this perverse idea that games should be balanced, which carried to its absurd extreme means everyone is built on the same total points - overall, everyone is as good as everyone else. Point-buy is roleplaying game socialism, and it doesn't represent reality or fantasy fiction in any way at all.

This is why random roll character generation is superior - there's less opportunity for the player to indulge their desire to be a unique special snowflake and, god help us, write a backstory.

The idea that disabilities give you extra other abilities accounts for people wanting to be disabled. Point-buy character generation is the cause of modern Wokeness. Save the world from the Woke, stick to random roll character generation.
Point of order, no it isn't GURPS fault, Champions beat them by 6 years with that paradigm of points of disabilities.
Yeah, Champions had points for disabilities in 1981, while GURPS didn't come out until 1987.

I disagree with the premise of Kyle's argument, though -- which is a variation of "If you want to kill orcs, then you support real-life genocide of real-life people." The alternative is that games are not indicative of real-life beliefs and behaviors - so killing people in a game doesn't indicate that you're a psychopath, and wanting game balance doesn't indicate that you're a socialist. Game balance is a concept that long predates role-playing games at all. It's from war games, board games, and card games.

I think the desire to play characters with notable weaknesses and/or disabilities comes from the genre - not from game mechanics. Superhero characters like Daredevil and Professor X had unique disabilities that were a part of them, as opposed to classic fantasy characters like Conan or Aragorn.

I've played lots of point-buy character creation and lots of random-roll character creation. I think they're both fun, and I don't think either has any effect on real-life politics.

Agreed, I think the premise is faulty. RPG's can be a way to explore ideas that you don't agree with, or are opposed to in a relatively safe environment. You are NOT your character, but your character is a way to explore aspects of life that are otherwise closed to you. Disabilities are often a way to explain your character's origin (Daredevil being one such example) or their motivation within the context of the game. It is strange that some people seem to fetishize it...
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsRichard Feynman

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more.Nikola Tesla

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.Bruce Lee

He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.Marcus Aurelius

For you see we are aimless hate filled animals scampering away into the night.Skwisgaar Skwigelf