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Author Topic: Bad Behavior and the Professional Death Penalty  (Read 3034 times)

Anon Adderlan

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Bad Behavior and the Professional Death Penalty
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2019, 08:40:06 AM »
Quote from: kythri;1072305
He pretty much admitted to showing off explicit photos of himself banging some other woman...

#Spittake

OK, I've been told he shared dickpics, but this implies he actually got laid.

It also supports dropping him like a hot potato.

So what does 'pretty much' mean here?

kythri

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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2019, 10:08:32 AM »
Quote from: Almost_Useless;1072320
Why drudge it up so long after?

Because it's not about "standing with accusers", it's about virtue-signalling and trying to use the outrage to positive marketing advantage.

If you look at these shitbags' immediately preceding blog post, they're discussing moving to new print fulfillment options.  Specifically mentioned is that, until they complete their transition to their new printing options, the retail distribution system will be the best place to obtain print copies of their books.

So, basically, their supply of printed stuff is out of stock, it's time to print more, and therefore, let's spruce up a 6-year-old book with a new forward, capitalizing on the outrage around the person who previously wrote the forward, and drum up some sales now that they've got their printing issues sorted.  

Look how woke we are!  We're hitching our wagon to an 8-month-old accusation, not when it's timely (and might cost us money in unsold merchandise), but when it's financially convenient for us!

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1072336
So what does 'pretty much' mean here?

The pretty much:

Quote from: Fannon
Fannon denies the nature of the event, saying "I will assert with confidence that at no time would such a sharing have occurred without my understanding explicit consent on the part of all parties. It may be that, somehow, a miscommunication or misunderstanding occurred; the chaos of a party or social gathering may have created a circumstance of all parties not understanding the same thing within such a discourse. Regardless, I would not have opened such a file and shared it without believing, sincerely, it was a welcome part of the discussion (and in pursuit of further, mutually-expressed intimate interest)."

Translation:  "I wouldn't have shown the pictures if I thought they didn't want to see them.  Since I'm not denying showing the pictures, I obviously, sincerely, believed they wanted to see them, so I showed them."

Stephen Tannhauser

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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2019, 10:59:24 AM »
Quote from: Almost_Useless;1072172
Are we really at a point where boorish behavior merits not only getting you fired from everywhere forever, but actually expunged from history like some kind of heretic in the Warhammer 40k universe?

Worse; we're at the point where mere allegations of boorish behavior can launch that process. Like all witch hunts, the accusation is the punishment.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Motorskills

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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2019, 04:06:12 PM »
Quote from: kythri;1072342
Because it's not about "standing with accusers", it's about virtue-signalling and trying to use the outrage to positive marketing advantage.

If you look at these shitbags' immediately preceding blog post, they're discussing moving to new print fulfillment options.  Specifically mentioned is that, until they complete their transition to their new printing options, the retail distribution system will be the best place to obtain print copies of their books.

So, basically, their supply of printed stuff is out of stock, it's time to print more, and therefore, let's spruce up a 6-year-old book with a new forward, capitalizing on the outrage around the person who previously wrote the forward, and drum up some sales now that they've got their printing issues sorted.  

Look how woke we are!  We're hitching our wagon to an 8-month-old accusation, not when it's timely (and might cost us money in unsold merchandise), but when it's financially convenient for us!



The pretty much:



Translation:  "I wouldn't have shown the pictures if I thought they didn't want to see them.  Since I'm not denying showing the pictures, I obviously, sincerely, believed they wanted to see them, so I showed them."



I don't know the truth of this particular situation, but we all know that the provision of unsolicited dick pics is a well-established phenomenon.
“Gosh it’s so interesting (profoundly unsurprising) how men with all these opinions about women’s differentiation between sexual misconduct, assault and rape reveal themselves to be utterly tone deaf and as a result, systemically part of the problem.” - Minnie Driver, December 2017

" Using the phrase "virtue signalling" is 'I'm a sociopath' signalling ". J Wright, July 2018

shuddemell

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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2019, 05:24:39 PM »
I stand with the Constitution and due process.
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsRichard Feynman

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more.Nikola Tesla

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.Bruce Lee

He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.Marcus Aurelius

For you see we are aimless hate filled animals scampering away into the night.Skwisgaar Skwigelf

jhkim

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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2019, 06:02:02 PM »
Quote from: shuddemell;1073128
I stand with the Constitution and due process.
The Constitution mostly deals with the action of the government.

The issue here is about how private employers - as well as simply private consumers - deal with accusations. For the most part, employers can fire employees without a criminal conviction, and consumers can boycott or just passively not buy someone without there being a criminal conviction. Particularly for public figures like authors and artists, their fortunes are always going to turn on their general reputation - not just lack of criminal conviction. If people is reported to have behaved like an asshole, they're less likely to buy their stuff - even though that asshole-ish behavior isn't criminally prosecuted.

I don't think that it's reasonable or possible to leave all judgement up to the courts.

For that matter, I'm not convinced that anyone really wants to leave things to the courts. The common bias is to give a pass to people on your own political side -- up until there is overwhelming evidence. Conversely, people on the opposing side usually are judged more harshly just from accusations without a trial. Prosecution and trial often are held to be unfairly executed.

shuddemell

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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2019, 08:00:29 PM »
Yes, literally that is true, but I mean in principle. Anyone tried in the court of public opinion is being de facto denied their due process. If there are allegations of an actual crime, then take them to the proper authorities, but shaming and ostracizing over a mere allegation is contrary to any real sense of justice. This is the whole point of having courts. To fairly and evenly apply justice. Yes, it doesn't always happen fairly with the courts, but it NEVER happens fairly with the court of public opinion. We saw that, in spades, with how Brett Kavanaugh was smeared and vilified, and still is even after many of those accusations have not only been proven false, but were proven outright lies. The real rub is this as well... why do you think people prefer to smear over actual legal action? It's because there is NO standard of evidence and no consequences to lying or distorting the truth to achieve political and social ends. To those that do this, no act, lie or subterfuge is too low as long as they achieve their end. It's wrong in my view, no matter how you justify it.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 08:04:55 PM by shuddemell »
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsRichard Feynman

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more.Nikola Tesla

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.Bruce Lee

He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.Marcus Aurelius

For you see we are aimless hate filled animals scampering away into the night.Skwisgaar Skwigelf

jhkim

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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2019, 09:49:44 PM »
Quote from: shuddemell;1073151
Yes, literally that is true, but I mean in principle. Anyone tried in the court of public opinion is being de facto denied their due process. If there are allegations of an actual crime, then take them to the proper authorities, but shaming and ostracizing over a mere allegation is contrary to any real sense of justice. This is the whole point of having courts. To fairly and evenly apply justice. Yes, it doesn't always happen fairly with the courts, but it NEVER happens fairly with the court of public opinion. We saw that, in spades, with how Brett Kavanaugh was smeared and vilified, and still is even after many of those accusations have not only been proven false, but were proven outright lies.
But does that mean everything should be left to the courts - or is it just that in this case media and public opinion were wrong? Do you feel the same way about public opinion on matching your politics? For example, do you think that the issue of Hillary Clinton's emails should have been left to the courts rather than debated in the media?

In general, I do think that there are a lot of problems with public opinion. Television new and social media especially are drawn to sensationalism and click-bait, stirring up furor to get people watching more. To pick a less political case, I thought the coverage of the OJ Simpson trial was ridiculous. It was wasted effort for everyone to learn the details of the evidence and try to decide for themselves, especially given that meant deciding on much less than the jurors.

However, I'm also not fond of leaving all determination of truth to the government. I think there is good reason to have a strong independent press who report on things against the government's view. So the press and public opinion can be wrong - but my answer to that is to change culture to encourage more rational, empirical thought. It's impossible to completely change human nature - but we can do better or worse at our biases.

shuddemell

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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2019, 10:15:10 PM »
I believe that to a degree some public exposure of things directly relatable to government are inevitably in the public eye, and to that extent it is impossible to leave it entirely to the courts. But, particularly when there are issues that would be actual crimes if true, that we all should be more circumspect, at least until there is credible evidence that there is something to report beyond innuendo. My politics don't enter into it, and yes they should have been more circumspect with Hilary, at least until we knew from Comey's report that she had broken the law even if they declined to prosecute. It is a difficult thing, particularly with social media being the way it is today. If it is an issue that doesn't carry a criminal penalty, then at that point public opinion will be what it is, it is just that once you have let unfounded allegations (with the serious implications of jail time and ruined repuations) loose in todays social media climate, it's too late to unring that bell. I thought the OJ case was a travesty as well, but I was one of the few that told others that I didn't have enough information to make a judgement about his guilt, and therefore I would wait until the trial was complete.

I agree, however I don't believe what MSM is doing these days can be called responsible reporting by any stretch of the imagination. They are the primary actor complicit in extra judicial pillorying that is rampant in the media. I would hope there is some way to return to more honest and objective reporting, but I see no glimmer of it, except from non-traditional sources.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 10:17:29 PM by shuddemell »
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsRichard Feynman

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more.Nikola Tesla

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.Bruce Lee

He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.Marcus Aurelius

For you see we are aimless hate filled animals scampering away into the night.Skwisgaar Skwigelf

Crawford Tillinghast

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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2019, 08:40:09 AM »
Quote from: jhkim;1073135
Conversely, people on the opposing side usually are judged more harshly just from accusations without a trial. Prosecution and trial often are held to be unfairly executed.


Fair point:
I took the cops' side in the Rodney King case - If they'd continued to beat King when he was down, it would have been a different story;  but IMO even the best trained police aren't going to immediately stop, in mid blow, when the detainee is no longer a threat.

And then I took Simpson's side in his case.  IMO, he was guilty, but I agreed with the jury that there was reasonable doubt.  I could write a whole wall of text on the failure of the various parts of the City and County of Los Angeles to perform their duties, but the TLDR version is the case was an utter failure - verging on criminal negligence - on the part of the police and prosecution.  (Weirdly, I think Furman was the most - and last - professional in the whole mess).

Both of which support my politics:  1) People are human and by definition less than perfect, and 2) prosecutors are more interested in conviction rates than justice.

Which brings me to this weekend's news:  Waves at @Doc Sammy - somebody found the Governor of Virginia'd 1984 class yearbook.  In it, he took part in an "insensitive" skit, and it turns out that his nickname was "Coonman." People across the spectrum are demanding his resignation.  Nobody cared about his flat out support for post birth "abortion" but boy howdy is everyone in a rage about some silly college event.

HappyDaze

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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2019, 03:28:49 PM »
Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;1073173
Which brings me to this weekend's news:  Waves at @Doc Sammy - somebody found the Governor of Virginia'd 1984 class yearbook.  In it, he took part in an "insensitive" skit, and it turns out that his nickname was "Coonman." People across the spectrum are demanding his resignation.  Nobody cared about his flat out support for post birth "abortion" but boy howdy is everyone in a rage about some silly college event.

Yep, 35 years is apparently still well within the "statue of limitations" for annihilation by opinion.

Snowman0147

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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2019, 04:34:06 PM »
That governor needs to lose his job for trying to legalize baby murder.  Seriously the baby is born.  The baby has the right to live for all that is holy.

GameDaddy
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2019, 08:23:11 PM »
Quote from: jhkim;1073135
The Constitution mostly deals with the action of the government.

The issue here is about how private employers - as well as simply private consumers - deal with accusations. For the most part, employers can fire employees without a criminal conviction, and consumers can boycott or just passively not buy someone without there being a criminal conviction. Particularly for public figures like authors and artists, their fortunes are always going to turn on their general reputation - not just lack of criminal conviction. If people is reported to have behaved like an asshole, they're less likely to buy their stuff - even though that asshole-ish behavior isn't criminally prosecuted.

I don't think that it's reasonable or possible to leave all judgement up to the courts.

For that matter, I'm not convinced that anyone really wants to leave things to the courts. The common bias is to give a pass to people on your own political side -- up until there is overwhelming evidence. Conversely, people on the opposing side usually are judged more harshly just from accusations without a trial. Prosecution and trial often are held to be unfairly executed.


The Constitution deals with the American Public. Most people don't realize how much their rights have been abrogated, trampled upon and ignored for the sake of political expediency, as well as to ensure the lions share of trade goes to a few oligarchs.
Blackmoor grew from a single Castle to include, first, several adjacent Castles (with the forces of Evil lying just off the edge of the world to an entire Northern Province of the Castle and Crusade Society's Great Kingdom.

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Delete_me

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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2019, 04:42:37 PM »
Quote from: GameDaddy;1073199
The Constitution deals with the American Public.
What do you mean by this, either in this context or more broadly?

Crawford Tillinghast

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« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2019, 06:19:00 PM »
Quote from: Snowman0147;1073190
That governor needs to lose his job for trying to legalize baby murder.  Seriously the baby is born.  The baby has the right to live for all that is holy.

Over at TBP they are having a rational* discussion on the topic.  One poster poster there referred to the Fourth Trimester Abortion quote as "taken out of context."  (From memory)  "...put the infant on life support, and have a conference with the parents."  I'm not sure how you'd have to cut that to make it out of context.

*  I know, but it honestly sounds like a discussion by sane people.  First time for everything, I guess.

EDIT:  I was going to say, "Because no moderators have stepped in" but...
VA Gov thread Post 119:
said:  Not worth resigning for, different era, different values.

Moderator Text:  You have two warnings and two prior suspensions for posts like this, and this time, you seem so uninterested in engaging that you haven't even written a complete sentence. I'm suspending you for seven days.

Yep.  Somebody got a seven day suspension for using bullet point.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 07:16:54 PM by Crawford Tillinghast »