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Author Topic: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush  (Read 4502 times)

VisionStorm

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2022, 08:21:19 PM »
First time I ever rooted for ISIS, TBH.

Why does ISIS care about Dubya now? Something doesn't smell right.

Is it a play get the US involved again in the endless Middle East wars?

Dubya was the best thing that ever happened to Iraqi nutjobs. Saddam would have never allowed ISIS to fart wrong, let alone take his cities.

I think it's just that they never forgive and never forget.  These people are still bent out of shape about the Reconquista, remember.  I agree that they should be grateful to Bush really, but they don't see it that way.

Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

Mistwell

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2022, 10:16:23 PM »
First time I ever rooted for ISIS, TBH.

Why does ISIS care about Dubya now? Something doesn't smell right.

Is it a play get the US involved again in the endless Middle East wars?

Dubya was the best thing that ever happened to Iraqi nutjobs. Saddam would have never allowed ISIS to fart wrong, let alone take his cities.

I think it's just that they never forgive and never forget.  These people are still bent out of shape about the Reconquista, remember.  I agree that they should be grateful to Bush really, but they don't see it that way.

Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

You are aware that hasn't turned out to be proven, even today, right? From a review of the studies on the topic: "However, the reviewed studies and the available research evidence do not provide a clear increase in birth defects and a clear indication of a possible environmental exposure including depleted uranium although the country has been facing several environmental challenges since 1980."

But them you just rooted for ISIS so I am not sure it would matter to you that you might be wrong.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 10:19:56 PM by Mistwell »

VisionStorm

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2022, 12:36:41 AM »
First time I ever rooted for ISIS, TBH.

Why does ISIS care about Dubya now? Something doesn't smell right.

Is it a play get the US involved again in the endless Middle East wars?

Dubya was the best thing that ever happened to Iraqi nutjobs. Saddam would have never allowed ISIS to fart wrong, let alone take his cities.

I think it's just that they never forgive and never forget.  These people are still bent out of shape about the Reconquista, remember.  I agree that they should be grateful to Bush really, but they don't see it that way.

Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

You are aware that hasn't turned out to be proven, even today, right? From a review of the studies on the topic: "However, the reviewed studies and the available research evidence do not provide a clear increase in birth defects and a clear indication of a possible environmental exposure including depleted uranium although the country has been facing several environmental challenges since 1980."

But them you just rooted for ISIS so I am not sure it would matter to you that you might be wrong.

No, I wasn't aware of that, and there's a lot of conflicting information about it out there. But I love how you pick the one disputed fact out of the whole thing that I said and ignore the context of what I said, like Iraq wasn't destroyed under false pretexts under a war pushed by Bush and his administration, and that doesn't make Bush a war criminal.

Mistwell

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2022, 01:12:38 AM »
First time I ever rooted for ISIS, TBH.

Why does ISIS care about Dubya now? Something doesn't smell right.

Is it a play get the US involved again in the endless Middle East wars?

Dubya was the best thing that ever happened to Iraqi nutjobs. Saddam would have never allowed ISIS to fart wrong, let alone take his cities.

I think it's just that they never forgive and never forget.  These people are still bent out of shape about the Reconquista, remember.  I agree that they should be grateful to Bush really, but they don't see it that way.

Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

You are aware that hasn't turned out to be proven, even today, right? From a review of the studies on the topic: "However, the reviewed studies and the available research evidence do not provide a clear increase in birth defects and a clear indication of a possible environmental exposure including depleted uranium although the country has been facing several environmental challenges since 1980."

But them you just rooted for ISIS so I am not sure it would matter to you that you might be wrong.

No, I wasn't aware of that, and there's a lot of conflicting information about it out there. But I love how you pick the one disputed fact out of the whole thing that I said and ignore the context of what I said, like Iraq wasn't destroyed under false pretexts under a war pushed by Bush and his administration, and that doesn't make Bush a war criminal.

I don't think that's at all what happened. I think the left convinced you that the President, who simply made a mistake based on the evidence presented to him, instead engaged in a conspiracy to intentionally lie. He's not a war criminal, just an ordinary man who did his best under difficult circumstances but did mistakenly jump to conclusions about WMD which turned out to be wrong. A big part of the reason he was wrong was Saddam himself also thought he had WMD, because his henchmen lied to him about it.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 01:15:25 AM by Mistwell »

I

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2022, 02:06:18 AM »


Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

I meant they should be grateful to Bush for providing them the opportunity to expand into Iraq, which he did by taking out Saddam and leaving nothing in his place.  Well, nothing really effective, anyway.  ISIS tried to take over several countries, only one of which was Iraq.  Now, al-Qaeda and the Taliban and Sunni Iraqis, THEY have particular reason to hate Bush.  ISIS are total opportunists; they may have figured they could cement support among large numbers of Muslims by taking out a prominent figure who's widely hated in their part of the world.  Like them or not, most Muslim terrorist groups have specific political goals that, if met, would settle them down.  Nit ISIS, they just seem to be a group in search of plunder, slaves, murder and rape.  I can't think of a single Muslim government anywhere they don't hate and wouldn't try to overthrow if they could.  They've fought Turks, Syrians, Egyptians, Kurds, Yazidis, Iraqi tribal militia... the list is a long one, and Americans are just one more entry on it.

VisionStorm

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2022, 08:25:34 AM »
First time I ever rooted for ISIS, TBH.

Why does ISIS care about Dubya now? Something doesn't smell right.

Is it a play get the US involved again in the endless Middle East wars?

Dubya was the best thing that ever happened to Iraqi nutjobs. Saddam would have never allowed ISIS to fart wrong, let alone take his cities.

I think it's just that they never forgive and never forget.  These people are still bent out of shape about the Reconquista, remember.  I agree that they should be grateful to Bush really, but they don't see it that way.

Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

You are aware that hasn't turned out to be proven, even today, right? From a review of the studies on the topic: "However, the reviewed studies and the available research evidence do not provide a clear increase in birth defects and a clear indication of a possible environmental exposure including depleted uranium although the country has been facing several environmental challenges since 1980."

But them you just rooted for ISIS so I am not sure it would matter to you that you might be wrong.

No, I wasn't aware of that, and there's a lot of conflicting information about it out there. But I love how you pick the one disputed fact out of the whole thing that I said and ignore the context of what I said, like Iraq wasn't destroyed under false pretexts under a war pushed by Bush and his administration, and that doesn't make Bush a war criminal.

I don't think that's at all what happened. I think the left convinced you that the President, who simply made a mistake based on the evidence presented to him, instead engaged in a conspiracy to intentionally lie. He's not a war criminal, just an ordinary man who did his best under difficult circumstances but did mistakenly jump to conclusions about WMD which turned out to be wrong. A big part of the reason he was wrong was Saddam himself also thought he had WMD, because his henchmen lied to him about it.

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.



Yes, I'm sure they are grateful for War Criminal Bush turning Iraq into a radioactive wasteland where children are still being born with birth defects today.

I meant they should be grateful to Bush for providing them the opportunity to expand into Iraq, which he did by taking out Saddam and leaving nothing in his place.  Well, nothing really effective, anyway.  ISIS tried to take over several countries, only one of which was Iraq.  Now, al-Qaeda and the Taliban and Sunni Iraqis, THEY have particular reason to hate Bush.  ISIS are total opportunists; they may have figured they could cement support among large numbers of Muslims by taking out a prominent figure who's widely hated in their part of the world.  Like them or not, most Muslim terrorist groups have specific political goals that, if met, would settle them down.  Nit ISIS, they just seem to be a group in search of plunder, slaves, murder and rape.  I can't think of a single Muslim government anywhere they don't hate and wouldn't try to overthrow if they could.  They've fought Turks, Syrians, Egyptians, Kurds, Yazidis, Iraqi tribal militia... the list is a long one, and Americans are just one more entry on it.

ISIS are opportunistic bastards, I'll give you that.

Pat

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2022, 02:57:13 PM »
No, I wasn't aware of that, and there's a lot of conflicting information about it out there. But I love how you pick the one disputed fact out of the whole thing that I said and ignore the context of what I said, like Iraq wasn't destroyed under false pretexts under a war pushed by Bush and his administration, and that doesn't make Bush a war criminal.
That's a really weird response. People point out errors in areas where they have knowledge/interest, it's very strange to expect they're going to affirm or deny the rest of what you said because they replied to a very specific point.

Without knowing anything about the specific subject of depleted uranium from the first Gulf War, I'm also skeptical. There was a lot of radiation hysteria and misinformation during the Cold War, and it still persists. The few websites I skimmed didn't come across as credible.

Note what I just said doesn't require me to point out that Bush is garbage, or to criticize the endless wars, the military-industrial complex, or American war crimes.

Mistwell

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2022, 07:19:59 PM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 07:23:42 PM by Mistwell »

3catcircus

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2022, 07:28:12 PM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.

I work with governments. When they make a mistake, it isn't simple. It's incompetence, laziness, and apathy.

Mistwell

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2022, 09:09:35 PM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.

I work with governments. When they make a mistake, it isn't simple. It's incompetence, laziness, and apathy.

Yes, and? I'd say it's fair to describe both the WMD in Iraq and the Wedding Party Drone attack as incompetence and possibly laziness and apathy.

3catcircus

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2022, 09:17:28 PM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.

I work with governments. When they make a mistake, it isn't simple. It's incompetence, laziness, and apathy.

Yes, and? I'd say it's fair to describe both the WMD in Iraq and the Wedding Party Drone attack as incompetence and possibly laziness and apathy.

My point being that when government makes mistakes, it's never innocent and simple.  Government is full of sociopaths supported by legions of the lazy and incompetent. When a mistake happens it usually involves "leaders" doubling down on their stupid rather than acknowledging the mistake and fixing it.

Mistwell

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2022, 10:47:59 PM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.

I work with governments. When they make a mistake, it isn't simple. It's incompetence, laziness, and apathy.

Yes, and? I'd say it's fair to describe both the WMD in Iraq and the Wedding Party Drone attack as incompetence and possibly laziness and apathy.

My point being that when government makes mistakes, it's never innocent and simple.  Government is full of sociopaths supported by legions of the lazy and incompetent. When a mistake happens it usually involves "leaders" doubling down on their stupid rather than acknowledging the mistake and fixing it.

I think that's probably true. I don't think doubling down on stupid makes one a war criminal.

oggsmash

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2022, 11:32:51 PM »
If you stupidly fire a gun off into the dark and you kill someone…are you a criminal?  The “Best and Brightest” in DC are held to a lower standard than a drunk guy in a trailer park?  War criminals I have noticed are usually on the losing side….pays to be a winner I guess.

Pat

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2022, 12:03:37 AM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.

I work with governments. When they make a mistake, it isn't simple. It's incompetence, laziness, and apathy.

Yes, and? I'd say it's fair to describe both the WMD in Iraq and the Wedding Party Drone attack as incompetence and possibly laziness and apathy.

My point being that when government makes mistakes, it's never innocent and simple.  Government is full of sociopaths supported by legions of the lazy and incompetent. When a mistake happens it usually involves "leaders" doubling down on their stupid rather than acknowledging the mistake and fixing it.

I think that's probably true. I don't think doubling down on stupid makes one a war criminal.
Then what does?

We have an entire governmental structure that's almost completely protected by qualified and similar immunities. Nobody's ever held accountable, except occasionally a few low-level scapegoats. And you're saying when something truly horrible happens, it's not their fault.

People with the authority to kill other people need to be held to a higher standard, not to a standard so low it makes a dent in the floor.

3catcircus

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Re: Assassination Plot on President W. Bush
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2022, 10:58:37 AM »

Whatever you need to tell yourself, dude. You're probably the first guy I've run into trying to defend Bush. Mistakes were made like Obama made mistakes droning multiple wedding parties and US civilians.

Yes, I feel pretty confident it was a mistake when President Obama's administration drone bombed the wedding, and not some nefarious secret plot.

I always think it's weird when people think the Government doesn't make mistakes. We could only wish for the level of competency some folks around here seem to think they possess in nefarious pots and secret conspiracies and multi-stage plans and sometime multi-year plans. all involving Government employees in key positions to enact parts of the plan.

I work with governments. When they make a mistake, it isn't simple. It's incompetence, laziness, and apathy.

Yes, and? I'd say it's fair to describe both the WMD in Iraq and the Wedding Party Drone attack as incompetence and possibly laziness and apathy.

My point being that when government makes mistakes, it's never innocent and simple.  Government is full of sociopaths supported by legions of the lazy and incompetent. When a mistake happens it usually involves "leaders" doubling down on their stupid rather than acknowledging the mistake and fixing it.

I think that's probably true. I don't think doubling down on stupid makes one a war criminal.
Then what does?

We have an entire governmental structure that's almost completely protected by qualified and similar immunities. Nobody's ever held accountable, except occasionally a few low-level scapegoats. And you're saying when something truly horrible happens, it's not their fault.

People with the authority to kill other people need to be held to a higher standard, not to a standard so low it makes a dent in the floor.

There are a couple of things that can and should be done to fix this.

1. Term limits for every elected office. Every office. I'd prefer officeholder by random lottery, but that's a bridge too far.
1a. No revolving door of government, lobbying, and associated industry.
1b. No PACs, no donations by any organization. Individual donations only and only up to $1,000.
2. Mandatory shuffling of job assignments for career civil servants (i.e. you don't get to be the Chief Drone Bean Counter for Division A of Department 57 of Branch Zulu of the Federal Carbonpaper Quality Assurance Agency for the next 30 years, you have to move amongst federal agencies every couple of years since a financial analyst (in this example) should be competent to be one in any federal agency).
3. No qualified immunity. None. Not for law enforcement, not for politicians, not for judges.
4. Require law enforcement to have the same degree of training and licensure as lawyers, doctors, and engineers.
5. Tactical units for law enforcement *must* have actual combat experience or have been in a combat arms branch (infantry, MP, pararescue, etc.) No more fat cops involved in cosplay who are afraid of getting shot.
6. Prosecutors shall not be elected and using it as a stepping stone to a judgeship or higher elected office.
6a. They need to prosecute according to the law, not what they think they can convict on, not should they be allowed to plea bargain solely to obtain a "win.'
7. We're need to forcefully reject any and all attempts to move society to the left.  Wanna smoke dope while having buttsex with three partners who dress up as they opposite sex? Do it on your own time, but you won't be allowed to promote it publicly in any way, shape, or form where you have undue influence over children or the public at large. This would secondarily eliminate the grifting involving Marxist organizations owned and operated by the family members of politicians being hired to do this by those same politicians.