Any Californians here?

[jhkim]

It wasn't just the Reagan amnesty disaster. It was the Uniparty loving illegals for their purposes. The left's elite wants poor ignorant voters and the right's elite wants cheap labor to drag down salaries and crime to scare voters.

Ahh, yes. And just think about the *hordes* of illegal immigrants pouring into the country all along the southern border. Each and every fucking day! But the goddamned Democrats LOVE IT! They love their policy of giving out money, health care, housing, and even VOTING rights to illegal immigrants.

I agree with Spinachcat here. It's both Republicans and Democrats who are supporting the situation. Republican politicians will try to play up crime numbers and deport thousands of undesirables to seem tough, while still intentionally keeping millions of the more productive ones in the country for cheap labor. Democrat politicians will play up abuse of illegal immigrants and deport slightly less, giving them some token services while continuing to exploit the cheap labor.

As I've said before, the only workable solution is to see this as a problem of *employers*. It's the companies exploiting cheap labor that are the primary problem. If there were any teeth to prosecuting them, then they would stop paying to bring and keep the laborer population here.

[oggsmash]

It wasn't just the Reagan amnesty disaster. It was the Uniparty loving illegals for their purposes. The left's elite wants poor ignorant voters and the right's elite wants cheap labor to drag down salaries and crime to scare voters.

Ahh, yes. And just think about the *hordes* of illegal immigrants pouring into the country all along the southern border. Each and every fucking day! But the goddamned Democrats LOVE IT! They love their policy of giving out money, health care, housing, and even VOTING rights to illegal immigrants.

I agree with Spinachcat here. It's both Republicans and Democrats who are supporting the situation. Republican politicians will try to play up crime numbers and deport thousands of undesirables to seem tough, while still intentionally keeping millions of the more productive ones in the country for cheap labor. Democrat politicians will play up abuse of illegal immigrants and deport slightly less, giving them some token services while continuing to exploit the cheap labor.

As I've said before, the only workable solution is to see this as a problem of *employers*. It's the companies exploiting cheap labor that are the primary problem. If there were any teeth to prosecuting them, then they would stop paying to bring and keep the laborer population here.

  How many illegals have you ever worked with?   I ask, because I often hear this as a solution, from both left and right.  However, it is almost always from people who know pretty much zero people who are illegal on a first name basis.    I can tell you, there will NEVER be any way to do a thing to employers.  I have watched, with my own eyes an employer call the Social Security office about a SSN they felt looked odd (I think the sequence struck him as strange for some reason) and the folks working for the government told him, point blank the person's status was not his concern, at all.  They told him just to make sure he withheld payroll taxes and that was the end of his concern.   I have seen the same fellow get a call about another employee who had a SSN that happened to be shared by 8 other people.  He asked if he needed to give any information about the employee, or if he should fire him, the folks told him to simply ask the fellow for a new SSN or tax ID, while making sure to withhold payroll taxes.  The guy said he would have a new one Monday, and he did   One guy actually got into a shitload of trouble, because he too came up with a shared SSN, and one of the fellows also happened to share his first name.   Problem is, the other dude was wanted for multiple homicides in California and New Mexico (apparently he was a Cartel enforcer).   Now our guy was about 5'5" and maybe 120lbs soaking wet.  The description of the enforcer was 6'1" and 200+.  All the same the kid was held in prison (not jail, but prison, they put super serious felons in the State prison to await trial) and finally after a month (and him being scared shitless being in a level 4 prison for a while) the dipshit DEA realized our guy could not be their guy, and they dropped charges.  He came back,  boss called about what to do, since his last SSN was fake, government told him to tell the kid to supply a new one.  He started back to work.

   Do you see a pattern here?   The government does not give a shit about who is sending in the payroll taxes as long as the money comes in.  You can say crack down on employers, but the reality is people who are illegal supply all paper work, all documents to work (and now I think instead of fake SSN's or those from dead people, old people, etc) they have a system for a person to have a tax ID despite having no green card and no status, and even if an employer pushes it, the government simply takes no action and encourages a work around.   Something may have changed in actual practice now, but I know this is how it was in 1998-2004.   I have a feeling not much has changed, and attempting to hang this on employers is sort of like suspending rent but expecting the actual landlord to still pay the mortgage. 

   As for cheap labor?  Well, I do think the people who China and India send here to do tech jobs do work at a substantially lower rate, but the guys sweating on the construction site *might* be willing to work for a bit less (the younger guys are pretty good about bunking up in a house, so they can minimize expenses to start working for maybe a dollar an hour less) but not for the most part.  This is sort of wine and cheese fair tale that I do not see happen in real time.  I think the way the labor may be cheaper is simply increasing the number of people able to do entry level jobs,  but that is a supply and demand thing, not a case of paying people less just because they are illegal.   Other states could have sweat shop type stuff going on, so I can not comment.  I can comment on what the 14 guys I supervised made, and where their wages started as unskilled labor. 

   Unions are against this sort of thing because it can flood a market with labor.  Democrats used to be for unions, and were at least giving lip service to stopping illegal immigration (just like Republicans pretended to care).  But huge industrial farms, meat processing plants, and other sorts of jobs are often the entry level for guys coming here illegally with no connections (most move on from these sorts of jobs, as they suck) so Republicans were never going to stop giving their donors labor, and once Democrats figured out people who were the children of illegals voted 65-70 percent democrat, they sort of tossed the unions under the bus. 

   I think there are lots of myths about employers and illegal immigration.  Reality is who is in office has a whole lot to do with how it is handled than anything written on paper.  I also know an ICE supervisor, and how much he worked went from pretty much nothing until 2016 and then he was busting his ass, and now it is back to very little work.  So reality is it is a complete mess.   

[oggsmash]

  I would also say when the folks here on visas from China and India, or when India can stop goofing up code and needing it fixed, and it can be fully outsourced, I think there are suddenly going to be a shitload of white collar workers who understand the plight of factory/construction/blue collar workers a whole hell of a lot more.

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And just think about the *hordes* of illegal immigrants pouring into the country all along the southern border. Each and every fucking day! But the goddamned Democrats LOVE IT! They love their policy of giving out money, health care, housing, and even VOTING rights to illegal immigrants.

Just let them pour in by the fucking millions!

That is going to ass-fuck this country in so many ways. But the good, sweet, Democrats don't give a fuck. Live in your shit-hole cities and choke on all that wonderful, vibrant duhversatay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Which shit hole cities are those, Shark? Be specific. Cities in Texas, for example? Nevada? Florida? Georgia? Arizona? Tell how these immigrants from Mexico, central and south America are only in "Democrat" territories. This should be good.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And just think about the *hordes* of illegal immigrants pouring into the country all along the southern border. Each and every fucking day! But the goddamned Democrats LOVE IT! They love their policy of giving out money, health care, housing, and even VOTING rights to illegal immigrants.

Just let them pour in by the fucking millions!

That is going to ass-fuck this country in so many ways. But the good, sweet, Democrats don't give a fuck. Live in your shit-hole cities and choke on all that wonderful, vibrant duhversatay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Which shit hole cities are those, Shark? Be specific. Cities in Texas, for example? Nevada? Florida? Georgia? Arizona? Tell how these immigrants from Mexico, central and south America are only in "Democrat" territories. This should be good.

Greetings!

Cities throughout Texas, Arizona, and California, in particular, Mistwell. Huge expenses involved with the hordes of illegal immigrants. Ever been to an emergency room at midnight in Santa Ana, Orange County? FULL of illegal immigrants. Huge numbers of criminals in US prisons--are illegal immigrants.

Haven't you seen the videos and interviews along the southern border? ICE officials have said it is an absolute disaster, with hordes of illegal immigrants pouring into the country, every day. Gun battles with US farmers and ranchers being attacked by illegal immigrants.

And meanwhile, Liberal Democrat politicians want to hand out all kinds of goodies to illegal immigrants.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And just think about the *hordes* of illegal immigrants pouring into the country all along the southern border. Each and every fucking day! But the goddamned Democrats LOVE IT! They love their policy of giving out money, health care, housing, and even VOTING rights to illegal immigrants.

Just let them pour in by the fucking millions!

That is going to ass-fuck this country in so many ways. But the good, sweet, Democrats don't give a fuck. Live in your shit-hole cities and choke on all that wonderful, vibrant duhversatay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Which shit hole cities are those, Shark? Be specific. Cities in Texas, for example? Nevada? Florida? Georgia? Arizona? Tell how these immigrants from Mexico, central and south America are only in "Democrat" territories. This should be good.

Greetings!

Cities throughout Texas, Arizona, and California, in particular, Mistwell. Huge expenses involved with the hordes of illegal immigrants. Ever been to an emergency room at midnight in Santa Ana, Orange County? FULL of illegal immigrants. Huge numbers of criminals in US prisons--are illegal immigrants.

Haven't you seen the videos and interviews along the southern border? ICE officials have said it is an absolute disaster, with hordes of illegal immigrants pouring into the country, every day. Gun battles with US farmers and ranchers being attacked by illegal immigrants.

And meanwhile, Liberal Democrat politicians want to hand out all kinds of goodies to illegal immigrants.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Here are the top ten states, in order, for illegal immigration by percentage of population: Nevada, Texas, California, New Jersey, Maryland, Arizona, Georgia, Florida, Massachusetts, New York. Now to me four of those ten are Republican leaning states (Texas, Arizona, Georgia, Florida), one leans slightly Republican (Nevada), and the rest lean Democratic.

Here are the top ten states with highest population of K-12 students with illegal immigrant parents, in order: Nevada, Texas, California, Arizona, Colorado, Nebraska, Washington, North Carolina, New Jersey, Georgia. Now to me half of those are Republican leaning (Texas Arizona, Nebraska, North Carolina), one leans slightly Republican (Nevada), one leans slightly Democratic (Colorado), and three lean Democratic (California, Washington and New Jersey).

Strangely, the top ten states where illegal immigration makes up the largest percentage of total immigrants in those states are almost all Republican leaning: Nebraska, Arkansas, North Carolina, Utah, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Idaho, Georgia, Louisiana, Nevada.

This hardly seems like a picture of "Shit hole Democrat" cities. It's actually an issue spread roughly evenly over the full spectrum of states based on partisanship.

[Willmark]

Hi, GriswaldTerrastone. I've lived in California since 1998 - in my current town of Redwood City since 2000.

(1) As Ghostmaker said, shoplifting is generally a misdemeanor like assault or trespassing. As far as I know, it's true in nearly all states that shoplifting under X amount is a misdemeanor. (2) I'm sure that somewhere in the state there is human feces on the street, but I don't see it. I think I saw some once when I went past a vacant lot seven years ago. (3) I don't have up-to-date data, but I'm pretty sure that is completely wrong. In Sep 2020, the stats I saw were:


Source: https://www.yelpeconomicaverage.com/business-closures-update-sep-2020

So that's 19 closed out of 1000 or 1.9%, which is significantly higher than the 11 closed out of 1000 in Texas, say, but that's a lot different than 50%. That was last year. There has been recovery in the spring of 2021, though we are now facing trouble again. Yelp had an summer 2021 update that included some general other stats like increased consumer interest but didn't update the closure numbers. I've seen a few retail closures in my area, but it seems roughly like the 2% from the report.

In general, I like California but it's certainly a mixed bag. It has great natural beauty and a creative culture, but the housing prices are ridiculous. It's roughly average in the nation for crime stats, mediocre at best in K-12 education though the UC system is quite good.

And why are housing prices ridiculous?

There is a really simple reason for this, let's see if you'll acknowledge it.

[oggsmash]

Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And just think about the *hordes* of illegal immigrants pouring into the country all along the southern border. Each and every fucking day! But the goddamned Democrats LOVE IT! They love their policy of giving out money, health care, housing, and even VOTING rights to illegal immigrants.

Just let them pour in by the fucking millions!

That is going to ass-fuck this country in so many ways. But the good, sweet, Democrats don't give a fuck. Live in your shit-hole cities and choke on all that wonderful, vibrant duhversatay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Which shit hole cities are those, Shark? Be specific. Cities in Texas, for example? Nevada? Florida? Georgia? Arizona? Tell how these immigrants from Mexico, central and south America are only in "Democrat" territories. This should be good.

Greetings!

Cities throughout Texas, Arizona, and California, in particular, Mistwell. Huge expenses involved with the hordes of illegal immigrants. Ever been to an emergency room at midnight in Santa Ana, Orange County? FULL of illegal immigrants. Huge numbers of criminals in US prisons--are illegal immigrants.

Haven't you seen the videos and interviews along the southern border? ICE officials have said it is an absolute disaster, with hordes of illegal immigrants pouring into the country, every day. Gun battles with US farmers and ranchers being attacked by illegal immigrants.

And meanwhile, Liberal Democrat politicians want to hand out all kinds of goodies to illegal immigrants.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Here are the top ten states, in order, for illegal immigration by percentage of population: Nevada, Texas, California, New Jersey, Maryland, Arizona, Georgia, Florida, Massachusetts, New York. Now to me four of those ten are Republican leaning states (Texas, Arizona, Georgia, Florida), one leans slightly Republican (Nevada), and the rest lean Democratic.

Here are the top ten states with highest population of K-12 students with illegal immigrant parents, in order: Nevada, Texas, California, Arizona, Colorado, Nebraska, Washington, North Carolina, New Jersey, Georgia. Now to me half of those are Republican leaning (Texas Arizona, Nebraska, North Carolina), one leans slightly Republican (Nevada), one leans slightly Democratic (Colorado), and three lean Democratic (California, Washington and New Jersey).

Strangely, the top ten states where illegal immigration makes up the largest percentage of total immigrants in those states are almost all Republican leaning: Nebraska, Arkansas, North Carolina, Utah, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Idaho, Georgia, Louisiana, Nevada.

This hardly seems like a picture of "Shit hole Democrat" cities. It's actually an issue spread roughly evenly over the full spectrum of states based on partisanship.

  Plenty of VERY blue cities in very red states.  I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this.  States have about ZERO say about illegal immigration, the feds have no interest in enforcing anything, and the reality is if you think you can look at a piece of paper and have an actual accurate number of illegals in the country, you are misled.   The issue is never going to be solved, because it ONLY impacts (negatively) American workers (immigrants or otherwise), and honestly illegal immigrants.  It benefits big business, it benefits politicians, it benefits government programs that thrive off of payroll taxes.   

[Trond]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

[oggsmash]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

  I think that is called "The Tyranny of the Majority"

[Ghostmaker]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

  I think that is called "The Tyranny of the Majority"

More like 'the tyranny of worthless vermin who've made sure they can cheatsy-doodle their way out of any consequence'.

The word is out that the printing machines will be going 'brrr' to keep Elder from taking Newsom's chair.

[Mistwell]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

  I think that is called "The Tyranny of the Majority"

More like 'the tyranny of worthless vermin who've made sure they can cheatsy-doodle their way out of any consequence'.

The word is out that the printing machines will be going 'brrr' to keep Elder from taking Newsom's chair.

Oh "the word." Well that's settled then. Also, "tyranny of the worthless vermin majority" but apparently not a majority since they'd have to cheat to win the election? It's like you're not even trying any more.

[Ghostmaker]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

  I think that is called "The Tyranny of the Majority"

More like 'the tyranny of worthless vermin who've made sure they can cheatsy-doodle their way out of any consequence'.

The word is out that the printing machines will be going 'brrr' to keep Elder from taking Newsom's chair.

Oh "the word." Well that's settled then. Also, "tyranny of the worthless vermin majority" but apparently not a majority since they'd have to cheat to win the election? It's like you're not even trying any more.

Nobody cares what you think. Go make some more excuses for the junta.

[Mistwell]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

  I think that is called "The Tyranny of the Majority"

More like 'the tyranny of worthless vermin who've made sure they can cheatsy-doodle their way out of any consequence'.

The word is out that the printing machines will be going 'brrr' to keep Elder from taking Newsom's chair.

Oh "the word." Well that's settled then. Also, "tyranny of the worthless vermin majority" but apparently not a majority since they'd have to cheat to win the election? It's like you're not even trying any more.

Nobody cares what you think. Go make some more excuses for the junta.

LOL I am voting in favor recall, gathered some signatures for it, and I'm gathering signatures for the recall of our shitty District Attorney as well. But those facts don't work well with your narrative so you go on thinking I am some SJW leftie or whatever.

[SHARK]

Fun fact.  Trump received more votes from California than any other state.  He received more than 6 million votes from Californians, more than from either Texas or Florida (or any other state, really).

I try to tell people that California has a lot of Republicans and Independents but it's always met with more stereotypes about California. Because "California: The Left Coast" makes for good clickbait.

Yes, I can confirm that there are a lot more conservatives here than most outsiders think. Just go on a little trip to the countryside and suddenly people's attitudes are completely different. But what matters is proportion, you know? LA is an enormous city with a huge liberal population. Add a few more left leaning cities and you have a state with a big liberal majority. By the way, I'm not sure if others can confirm but I think the contrast is even starker in Oregon; as in a few hyper-liberal cities but otherwise a large conservative population in the countryside.

  I think that is called "The Tyranny of the Majority"

More like 'the tyranny of worthless vermin who've made sure they can cheatsy-doodle their way out of any consequence'.

The word is out that the printing machines will be going 'brrr' to keep Elder from taking Newsom's chair.

Oh "the word." Well that's settled then. Also, "tyranny of the worthless vermin majority" but apparently not a majority since they'd have to cheat to win the election? It's like you're not even trying any more.

Nobody cares what you think. Go make some more excuses for the junta.

LOL I am voting in favor recall, gathered some signatures for it, and I'm gathering signatures for the recall of our shitty District Attorney as well. But those facts don't work well with your narrative so you go on thinking I am some SJW leftie or whatever.

Greetings!

Mistwell, don't you find it funny or strange how no Conservative member here believes that you are actually Conservative? You often protest that you are not an SJW or a Leftist--but there are few people here that would agree with such an assessment.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK